Reasons not to learn Spanish

[Mimm]

This has probably been discussed on here before. If so, sorry, I missed it. :) I got a link to this website in my email yesterday. It states that it's a free classical curriculum but really, it's just a long list of links to where you can buy books (can you call it a "curriculum" if you just put together a list of books that someone must go out and buy?)

 

I was exploring a little and I landed on this page where the site talks about why not to learn Spanish and I was rather taken aback at some of the reasons.

 

Unless one wants to pursue a career in manual labor or move to Mexico, there is very little practical advantage to learning Spanish and multiple intellectual advantages to studying other languages. Most Spanish speakers around the world are uneducated (e.g. the Amerindian / Mestizo populations of the New World), reinforcing Spanish's lowbrow aura.

 

:001_huh: It seems so very snobbish! I would think Spanish would also have value for anyone working with a lot of people who only speak Spanish, say a doctor at an urban hospital in a southern state. Or a social worker, lawyer, banker, salesman, teacher, and on and on.

 

Just because many Spanish speakers are present in the U.S., it is unnecessary for most Americans to learn to learn Spanish. History is replete with examples of the ruling class refusing to learn the language of foreign migrant workers and instead learning a more refined language (e.g. the Greeks, Ptolemies, Romans, Habsburgs, etc.).

 

The "ruling class"? I don't really know what to say to that.

 

The site seems to have a preoccupation with being perceived as "high brow". I'm from Houston originally, and while I don't speak Spanish, I am used to hearing and seeing it all around me. I've studied it more than any other language and I find that I pick it up easily and pronunciation comes easily to me (unlike French, which I happily butcher whenever I encounter it). ;) Maybe this makes me "low brow" and not a very good member of the "ruling class". Ah well.

 

I will say the ninth reason about Spanish not being an inflected language does make sense to me.

 

Is this site maybe a joke and I'm slow or something? I guess I always thought there were different reasons for studying different languages. You don't study Latin to converse with all those native Latin speakers moving to the US, but you do study Spanish for that reason.

[LaissezFaire]

WOW. Really? They would never be getting a penny of my money. I can't say anything printable really.

 

 

To study a language in part is to study and mimic the people who speak it. The question then is whether one wants to emulate a low-IQ people or a high-IQ people. By Studying Spanish, one will imitate those of lower IQs.

 

Nice. Real nice.

Edited March 31, 2011 by LaissezFaire

[Truscifi]

I will limit my comments to saying I find that unbelievably racist and classist. I would not buy anything from them.

[Remudamom]

Good grief! I think Spanish should be on the top on everyone's to learn list. What is their problem??

 

I love Spanish. I can say "Give me a Marguerita on the rocks" and "My horse is at home taking a shower."

[Mimm]

They're not selling anything. They only link to people who do sell things. Mostly Amazon. They recommend Shurley grammar and Saxon math and so on. I'm sure these people would be thrilled to be recommended on that site. :)

[KinderSafari]

That website seems rather negative.

 

I would say learning Spanish as a second language for familiarity is great. There are many opportunities in the southern US and/or for missionaries to use it.

 

I would say if you want your child to learn a second language where they might be able to get some good job opportunities because of it, possibly consider some other language besides Spanish. Chinese would be an excellent one, for example. There are so many people who live in the US and speak both Spanish and English fluently that they are all going to have an advantage over me when I'm just learning it, so it might be better to focus on a language that will be very needed, even if I don't become fluent at it.

 

If that makes sense. :)

[laundrycrisis]

From the page on their website:

 

"Most (Amerindian/Mestizo-dominated) Spanish-speaking countries have low average IQs (e.g. Equador, 80; Guatemala, 79; Mexico, 87; Puerto Rico, 84); whereas French and German-speaking countries have high average IQs (e.g. Austria, 102; Belgium, 100; France, 98; Germany, 102, and Switzerland, 101). To study a language in part is to study and mimic the people who speak it. The question then is whether one wants to emulate a low-IQ people or a high-IQ people. By Studying Spanish, one will imitate those of lower IQs."

 

:ack2: That is just horrible, offensive, and very sad.

 

I am hoping to get our kids into a coop Spanish class next year because we live in a bilingual community; we have frequent opportunities to be exposed to Spanish; they want to speak Spanish with the kids they meet at the parks and libraries, and they want to be able to understand the Spanish speakers around us and read the Spanish books at the library.

 

This company's attitude about Spanish is IMO so misinformed, as well as sadly closed minded, classist and racist. There are many jobs and careers here that involve contact with the public that have more opportunities for those who are bilingual. Banks, all kinds of stores, hospitals, 911 operators, colleges and universities, libraries, accountants, legal practices....the list goes on and on. IMO it is very proactive for anyone who lives in a bilingual community to learn both languages. I also have plans to study Latin and French with them - I already have some materials for all three and they have occasional exposure to snippets of all three. They are already noticing similarities between Latin and Spanish and enjoy discovering these.

[Impish]

Racist.

[tearose]

I think that the original excerpt posted is offensively worded, but I don't plan on teaching Spanish because I don't consider it a scholarly language (for modern lanuages, I'd prefer to start with French or German). If it's something my kids want to learn later, great--one can never know too many languages. But from my experience in graduate school, Spanish is not very useful for a scholar unless one is studying Spanish (or South American, I suppose) literature, history, etc. My doctorate program required language proficiency (specifically reading knowledge) in at least two languages--French and German exams were offered every semester, but others had to be requested. The only people who took Spanish were those who had research interests revolving around Spain. For reading scholarly books and journal articles, Spanish was simply not useful.

 

But while it's not scholarly, I would argue that it's practical--I'd certainly advise anyone going into the medical field to at least have some rudimentary knowledge, for instance.

[Ester Maria]

I am sooo going to rip that article apart. Just give me a few hours to stop laughing hysterically and calm the baby. LOL.

[Slartibartfast]

They're not selling anything. They only link to people who do sell things. Mostly Amazon. They recommend Shurley grammar and Saxon math and so on. I'm sure these people would be thrilled to be recommended on that site. :)

 

 

They are probably using amazon affiliate linking. I wouldn't use their links at all

[OH_Homeschooler]

From the page on their website:

 

"Most (Amerindian/Mestizo-dominated) Spanish-speaking countries have low average IQs (e.g. Equador, 80; Guatemala, 79; Mexico, 87; Puerto Rico, 84); whereas French and German-speaking countries have high average IQs (e.g. Austria, 102; Belgium, 100; France, 98; Germany, 102, and Switzerland, 101). To study a language in part is to study and mimic the people who speak it. The question then is whether one wants to emulate a low-IQ people or a high-IQ people. By Studying Spanish, one will imitate those of lower IQs."

 

:ack2: That is just horrible, offensive, and very sad.

 

 

 

And I would add, most likely wrong. It sounds very The Bell Curve to me.

 

Personally, I studied French in high school and college but I wish I had studied Spanish. It seems so much more practical, and perhaps I'd still remembered some of what I learned because I might actually use it now and then.

[Dmmetler]

Sigh...someone else who flunked Statistics 101. I guess even Classical education has to have their crackpots and village idiots!

[scrapbookbuzz]

Personally, I am for learning a foreign language (ANY foreign language). HOWEVER, in the Southwest here, and evidently more and more throughout the US, we, as an English-speaking nation, seem to be bending over backward to coddle those Spanish-speaking immigrants who refuse to learn the native language here. And I do not agree with that! Do you see the US bending over backward to make sure that everything, every label, includes not only the notes in English but in French/German/Gaelic/Dutch/Russian/etc? You get my point. If we were to immigrate to another country, in order to carry on day to day activities, it would behoove us to learn the language of that country.

 

It seems that the author(s) of that site do have a bit of a skewed perspective. However, I can understand the frustration of dealing with people on a daily basis who refuse to learn the native language!

 

(Stepping off of soapbox now . . . )

[kchara]

Wow. I'm not usually one to jump on the racist issue, but there's no other way to describe this. :001_huh::blink:

[linders]

We study language to expand our mind and opportunties and to gain appreciation for another culture - in the case of Spanish, many cultures, which have long and rich histories of their own.

 

Whoever wrote this is snobbish and provincial.

[OH_Homeschooler]

Personally, I am for learning a foreign language (ANY foreign language). HOWEVER, in the Southwest here, and evidently more and more throughout the US, we, as an English-speaking nation, seem to be bending over backward to coddle those Spanish-speaking immigrants who refuse to learn the native language here. And I do not agree with that! Do you see the US bending over backward to make sure that everything, every label, includes not only the notes in English but in French/German/Gaelic/Dutch/Russian/etc? You get my point. If we were to immigrate to another country, in order to carry on day to day activities, it would behoove us to learn the language of that country.

 

It seems that the author(s) of that site do have a bit of a skewed perspective. However, I can understand the frustration of dealing with people on a daily basis who refuse to learn the native language!

 

(Stepping off of soapbox now . . . )

 

So, you're not being facetious? Because I think I most certainly do get your point but I want to be sure.

[In2why]

I know here in small town USA when they hired people to work for the Census last year, if you spoke Spanish you got $2-$4 more an hour.

[Pretty in Pink]

Good grief.

 

Demographic projections have shown and continue to predict a steady increase in the percentage of hispanics in our nation.

 

http://pewsocialtrends.org/2008/02/11/us-population-projections-2005-2050/

 

http://www.census.gov/population/www/projections/usinterimproj/

 

Workers in a variety of fields, including social services, medical fields, and 'community helpers' such as police officers and firemen benefit and will continue to benefit from learning Spanish, not to mention the benefits of learning about the culture and heritage shared by 25% of your fellow Americans.

[Xander]

From the page on their website:

 

"Most (Amerindian/Mestizo-dominated) Spanish-speaking countries have low average IQs (e.g. Equador, 80; Guatemala, 79; Mexico, 87; Puerto Rico, 84); whereas French and German-speaking countries have high average IQs (e.g. Austria, 102; Belgium, 100; France, 98; Germany, 102, and Switzerland, 101)."

 

 

Spain, at 99, comes ahead of France in the 2002 figures which they seem to be using, and the two are equal at 98 in the 2006 figures.

They seem to have "forgotten" to mention that.

 

(In the 2006 figures, Germany and Belgium are down to 99, Austria down to 100, Mexico up to 90 and Ecuador up to 88, which suggests that the gap is closing anyway).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_Global_Inequality

 

See also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_and_the_Wealth_of_Nations#Criticism_of_data_sets

(criticism of the way the figures were produced)

[Mimm]

Personally, I am for learning a foreign language (ANY foreign language). HOWEVER, in the Southwest here, and evidently more and more throughout the US, we, as an English-speaking nation, seem to be bending over backward to coddle those Spanish-speaking immigrants who refuse to learn the native language here. And I do not agree with that! Do you see the US bending over backward to make sure that everything, every label, includes not only the notes in English but in French/German/Gaelic/Dutch/Russian/etc? You get my point. If we were to immigrate to another country, in order to carry on day to day activities, it would behoove us to learn the language of that country.

 

It seems that the author(s) of that site do have a bit of a skewed perspective. However, I can understand the frustration of dealing with people on a daily basis who refuse to learn the native language!

 

(Stepping off of soapbox now . . . )

 

That wasn't really the point of the website author. They didn't say, "Don't learn Spanish because immigrants to the US need to learn English and you'll only be encouraging them." And I'm don't really think that's a reason to not learn Spanish. I mean, you can believe that all you want, but in some areas, being able to carry on a basic conversation in Spanish will help you to be able to do your job to the best of your abilities. It's just practical.

[myfatherslily]

Personally, I like this reason the best:

8. Too many Americans already study Spanish. People need to diversify and study other languages.

This is excellent logic. I think I'll apply it to other areas. Far too many Americans study math. I, personally, think math sucks. I think we'll diversify and focus on some other subject instead.

[cmarango]

HOWEVER, in the Southwest here, and evidently more and more throughout the US, we, as an English-speaking nation, seem to be bending over backward to coddle those Spanish-speaking immigrants who refuse to learn the native language here.

 

I am assuming that you have never been a migrant worker nor have you been in a position to work the types of jobs that these people take. I would gently like to point out that migrant workers have little room in their schedule for english language classes...many work long, long hours to provide for their families.

 

Perhaps we would not be as upset to introduce spanish as an official second language if we were not entrenched in our ways as a monolingual society. Quite a few european citizens happily speak the languages of their neighbors.

 

Off my soapbox now. ;)

[Pretty in Pink]

Perhaps we would not be as upset to introduce spanish as an official second language if we were not entrenched in our ways as a monolingual society. Quite a few european citizens happily speak the languages of their neighbors.

 

Yep. :iagree:

[HeathenMom]

never mind...

Edited March 31, 2011 by HeathenMom
:\

[cmarango]

This was a reply to HeathenMom's post:

 

I know that my good friend in school (South Korean) was not supposed to speak english at home for very good reasons. First, her grandmother (living with them) did not really speak english and therefore it would not have been respectful to her. Second, speaking the native language helps to keep their culture alive and makes sure that she did not lose her native language. From my perspective, it means very little if a child is not supposed to speak a certain language at home. I believe that there are many of us on this board that do something similar in hopes of maintaining a bilingual household.

 

I really don't understand the problem with spanish being another official language, but perhaps someone shall enlighten me. :001_smile:

Edited March 31, 2011 by cmarango
deleted post

[Slartibartfast]

As a Native American I would object to English, Spanish or both being adopted as official languages.

 

Until people can speak Cherokee, Algonquin or Sioux I really don't understand the complaints about offering some materials in other languages.

[herbalgirl]

It sounds like it was written by my grandfather-in-law. He's always sending bad email jokes to us about Mexicans and Spanish-speaking people. :glare:

 

I, for one, am planning to start teaching my kids Spanish next year. I believe it is a very worthwhile language to learn. Equating it with just a certain economic status is foolish. :glare:

[OLG]

I think that the original excerpt posted is offensively worded, but I don't plan on teaching Spanish because I don't consider it a scholarly language (for modern lanuages, I'd prefer to start with French or German). If it's something my kids want to learn later, great--one can never know too many languages. But from my experience in graduate school, Spanish is not very useful for a scholar unless one is studying Spanish (or South American, I suppose) literature, history, etc. My doctorate program required language proficiency (specifically reading knowledge) in at least two languages--French and German exams were offered every semester, but others had to be requested. The only people who took Spanish were those who had research interests revolving around Spain. For reading scholarly books and journal articles, Spanish was simply not useful.

 

But while it's not scholarly, I would argue that it's practical--I'd certainly advise anyone going into the medical field to at least have some rudimentary knowledge, for instance.

 

:iagree:

[Ester Maria]

1. Very little of value has been written in Spanish. On the typical occidental Great Books reading list, only one piece of literature, Don Quixote, makes the cut. Minor languages, like Icelandic or Gaelic, have produced more enduring works of literature.

Cantar de Mio Cid.

Manrique.

REMARKABLE, word-class, Baroque theatre (Calderon, Lope de Vega).

Gongora.

Cadalso, and then Espronceda and Zorrilla.

Jimenez. Unamuno. Machado.

 

And this is just a very small, personally-flavored, biased selection. If the names would not mean anything to the author of the quote, I am afraid it is HIS ignorance at display there, rather than the lack of sophistication of verse and prose and world-class literature written in Spanish.

2. American students who have studied Spanish (as a foreign language) on average score around 100 points lower on the verbal portion of the SAT than do students who have studied other languages. For instance, in 2009, students who previously studied Latin scored on average 676 on the verbal portion of the SAT; students of French, 631; students of German, 630; students of Hebrew, 619; and students of Spanish, 557.

"Lies, ****ed lies and - statistics."

 

SAT proves nothing and is pretty much devoid of any inherent meaning as any other standardized test. It only 'proves' that Spanish is widespread and Latin is usually, anyway, taken mostly by already academically well-prepared students.

Not to speak of a fine irony that, ON A LEXICAL LEVEL, there is perfectly no difference in studying Latin as opposed to studying a modern foreign language, if your only goal is enriching English vocabulary. I even demonstrated that once in my posts, for those willing to search for it, in which I wrote a passage in Latin, in Italian and showed how the lexical benefits for your English would be roughly the same had you reached the level of reading such texts in Italian too.

 

Latin is learned if you wish to specifically learn Latin, not if you want a proxy for English grammar (rather do German, the morphosyntax of English is much closer to that) or vocabulary (you may study any of the Romance languages for that purposes - including, but not limited to, Spanish).

3. Very few peer-reviewed journals (e.g. in mathematics, physics, the sciences, classical philology, etc.) are written in Spanish. More journals are in French and German than in Spanish.

This is of importance only if you are specifically interested in a certain field and a certain peer journal in that field. Most of the world science is in English anyway. But humanities are a different boat even nowadays - and the knowledge of Spanish is still pretty useful in fields such as art history, history, Jewish studies (!), literature, etc.

4. Unless one wants to pursue a career in manual labor or move to Mexico, there is very little practical advantage to learning Spanish and multiple intellectual advantages to studying other languages. [...] To study a language in part is to study and mimic the people who speak it. The question then is whether one wants to emulate a low-IQ people or a high-IQ people. By Studying Spanish, one will imitate those of lower IQs.

Why don't y'all just study Hebrew then, if IQ (such a problematic concept!) of the nation which speaks the language is the "point"?

 

There are no inherent "intellectual advantages" to learning French as opposed to Spanish, for example. The two have nearly identical structure.

5. Having been influenced by Arabic in Spain and Amerindian languages in the New World, Spanish in many respects is the least European of (IE) European languages.

I am choking with laughter here. I never really formally learned Spanish (wait, does having a Venetian mother count? 'cause what they speak there is far more Spanish than Italian :lol:) and I can read it; obviously, the correspondence between this "terribly un-IE" language and Italian / French is not that bad.

Also, if Arabic influences on Spanish are an argument, we should never learn English, because its higher registers are basically germanized, pronunciation-bastardized, Latin via French. English is probably the least "pure" IE language.

6. Historically, English has been most influenced by German, Latin and French. In terms of refining one's understanding of English etymology and grammar, it is more beneficial for native English speakers to study German, Latin and French. The foundation of a traditional upper-class education for native English speakers has always consisted of German, Latin and French.

This is actually the most sound argument that I partially agree with. Too bad it is formed with a sort of class undertone.

 

To restate it, traditionally, Italian upper class has learned Latin and Greek, French and German, and aftert that even - gasp! - SPANISH. No English, see? It is a relatively new thing. But it was added when people realized that, maybe, insisting on French-only was isolating Italy from the rest of the world. And that, maybe, there is no point in building a "second language linguistic identity" of the nation on EXCLUSION of certain languages ("The nation which does not, and will not, speak that barbaric language of English and will only be associated with French and Latin.")... especially if, really, we are NOT talking about some minority, culturally insignificant languages (I am elitist enough to say that I would not include the studies of those, unless we happen to live in such life circumstances that we need them for day-to-day life). We are speaking about one of the principal European languages - too bad Americans associate it only with South America and forget that it was also the language of Calderon, not only of illegal immigrants.

7. Just because many Spanish speakers are present in the U.S., it is unnecessary for most Americans to learn to learn Spanish. History is replete with examples of the ruling class refusing to learn the language of foreign migrant workers and instead learning a more refined language (e.g. the Greeks, Ptolemies, Romans, Habsburgs, etc.).

I absolutely agree that one should not learn the language to cater to illegal immigrants or only because it is "handy" - especially in one's own country. No discussion about that. What is happening in Germany or Netherlands, linguistically, is crazy, for those same reasons - the newcomers, instead of adapting themselves to the new surroundings, often choose ghettoization within one's language and culture. No one should change country and not bother to adapt to the surroundings (whether the dominant language is official or no).

 

However, to look at the entire one language and culture from a very selective prism of "foreign migrant workers", is a mistake. I would even be inclined to agree with this reasoning if it were about some minor, culturally insignificant for Western culture, language. But if you think Spanish is that, you are SO wrong. So wrong that I cannot begin to prove you wrong. Studying Spanish, in the context of high-brow culture, is equally good option as French or Italian.

 

And even though Italian has traditionally had more prestige in Europe, trust me that Spanish is well alive and studied even in European schools. And it is - gasp! - viewed as a language of culture and letters too.

8. Too many Americans already study Spanish. People need to diversify and study other languages.

Too many Italians study Latin. Italians need to diversify and study other languages.

 

If Italians have obviously CHOSEN, repeatedly, throughout history, that Latin is a part of what they consider their reality and have put a certain VALUE in knowing it - there is perfectly no problem with many Americans making that choice for Spanish.

9. Spanish is not an inflected language. To facilitate a deeper understanding of grammar, students are better served by studying an inflected language like German or Latin.

Because English is so inflected, right? :rolleyes:

 

Spanish is actually inflected in a lot more subtle - sophisticated, if you wish :tongue_smilie: - way when it comes to verbal morphology, the nuanced use of subjunctives, etc. Just like Italian and French. That nuance of thought is nearly completely lost in English.

And regarding highly-inflected German, it is a JOKE compared to classics, Hebrew, modern Slavic languages, etc.

Ancestral considerations outweigh all others.

Insanity.

 

First of all, people get to choose their relationship with their ancestry. Keeping to it is a legitimate option. Assimilating is another legitimate option. Choosing to study a foreign language on other grounds is legitimate too.

 

And, actually, in my view - a far more elitist one when it comes to this - the PRIMARY concern should be cultural significance (tied, if possible, with utility). And that already depends not only on primary linguistic culture, but specific sub-culture one finds oneself within, etc. Culture is partially a choice as you re-build it in each generation, choosing what to associate with and what is prestigeous. And believe it or not, for many of the previous educated generations, Spanish was entering the mix too.

 

And we still do not study it. But to claim it culturally inferior and irrelevant in the context of Western civilization is just... wow. Demonstrates a profound ignorance of upper-class European culture throughout centuries. In Mediterranean countries, tradition of learning Spanish is far longer than one generation.

[CatMomof3]

my dh is 1st generation American (parents from Guatemala and Costa Rica). When one of his co-workers causally said that she is only speaking Spanish to her new son and then he can learn English when he goes to school, my dh strongly suggested that was not the best thing for her son.

 

My dh has a theory that one of the things that holds back the Latino community is the in ability to express certain thoughts or words correctly IN ENGLISH. His mother is a perfect example, she immigrated to the United States when she was 19, not knowing a word of English. She learned the HARD WAY, trial and error. So for years she cleaned houses and baked in the back of Vons. Just a couple of years ago my in-laws open their own bakery and it has become very successful. She says that she would have opened the bakery years ago if she had known how to speak English.

 

When I asked my dh what language I should start our oldest next year, he said flat out LATIN.

 

I know this was off topic, and I personally think the arguments that the website sited were not Logical and flat out stupid (and snobbish).

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Alphabetika]

I will limit my comments to saying I find that unbelievably racist and classist. I would not buy anything from them.

 

:iagree:Where I live, it's of great benefit to be bilingual in Spanish and English. These assertions are ridiculous.

[elegantlion]

I am sooo going to rip that article apart. Just give me a few hours to stop laughing hysterically and calm the baby. LOL.

 

Thank you. I enjoyed reading your critique. :D

 

I'm not even clicking the links, how racist and rude.

 

I took four years of Spanish in high school. Twenty years later it helped in my wonderful vacation to Costa Rica, where only the hotel staff spoke English.

 

Also my Spanish experience was been most helpful in teaching/learning Latin as an adult.

[kitten18]

Ick. Ick. Ick.

[12Stars]

I am fluent in both Spanish and English.

 

I find the whole thing ludicrous and shameless. I have to run but just wanted to share a tiny piece of what I feel about all this.

[Cricket]

I am assuming that you have never been a migrant worker nor have you been in a position to work the types of jobs that these people take. I would gently like to point out that migrant workers have little room in their schedule for english language classes...many work long, long hours to provide for their families.

 

Perhaps we would not be as upset to introduce spanish as an official second language if we were not entrenched in our ways as a monolingual society. Quite a few european citizens happily speak the languages of their neighbors.

 

Off my soapbox now. ;)

 

We lived in Oregon for about 8 years and now in Arizona for 5. Oregon has many Spanish-speaking migrant workers. Arizona, of course, also has many. Right now we live in a neighborhood that is predominantly Mexican immigrants. It has been my experience that many of the older immigrants have not learned much English but they make darn sure their children and grandchildren do. Many times I've had to communicate through 6- and 7-year-old translators. If there is no translator, with my two years of high school Spanish and their few words of English, we still manage to conduct business. :) I don't blame elderly people for not learning English. What a task! Especially with a language so complicated as ours! I don't think they are refusing to learn out of some defiance. It is very difficult and time-consuming as you said.

[zaichiki]

Oh my! I would boycott that site after reading that. Which curriculum is this? (I haven't yet read the other responses. I will go do that.)

 

Just for an alternate viewpoint -- the only fluent/native Spanish speakers that we know personally are college professors. Ha!

[kimnc]

Just amazing. And not in a good way. :confused:

 

As someone who took 3 years of high school spanish, and a semester in college, I'm amazed. As a child we lived in Spain for 3 years, and I loved it. The people were warm, friendly, and generous. The culture was rich. Madrid was a beautiful city, full of great architecture and fountains everywhere. Even as a small child I got that! (Had just turned 9 when we left.)

 

Now, I don't think Spanish was the most rigorous language I have studied -- I found it pretty easy, actually. Latin and German were harder to understand (and still are). But to completely discount it for the reasons these people list is just plain ignorant.

[Violet Crown]

Many people I know--some in my own family--are from Spanish-speaking families who were living here in the Southwest before anyone was speaking English here. Not everyone crossed the Rio Grande just yesterday.

 

As far as learning scholarly languages is concerned, the state university here has the top-ranked Spanish Literature department in the nation. Just the other day I was chatting with a mom whose father was a leading scholar in Spanish literature, and who herself was well-read in the Spanish classics. There's more than just Don Quixote.

 

Finally, you can't predict what will be the important scholarly language in your child's field. Much of the important, cutting-edge work in dh's field is in Norwegian. How could his parents (or he) have guessed that, and prepared him for it?

[In2why]

Personally, I am for learning a foreign language (ANY foreign language). HOWEVER, in the Southwest here, and evidently more and more throughout the US, we, as an English-speaking nation, seem to be bending over backward to coddle those Spanish-speaking immigrants who refuse to learn the native language here. And I do not agree with that! Do you see the US bending over backward to make sure that everything, every label, includes not only the notes in English but in French/German/Gaelic/Dutch/Russian/etc? You get my point. If we were to immigrate to another country, in order to carry on day to day activities, it would behoove us to learn the language of that country.

 

It seems that the author(s) of that site do have a bit of a skewed perspective. However, I can understand the frustration of dealing with people on a daily basis who refuse to learn the native language!

 

(Stepping off of soapbox now . . . )

 

We don't have a "native" language. The majority speak English, but that can and will change as demographics change. We (me included) forget that in the history of the World we are a very young.

[Dayle in Guatemala]

It makes me sick.

 

I live, currently, in Central America and while there is a problem with illiteracy, especially in Guatemala, these people are not "low class" by any means. I live in an area with over 75 Spanish schools and I can tell you that the main industry in Antigua (besides coffee) is Americans and Europeans coming here to learn to speak Spanish. Many of them are business professionals from other countries who encounter a lot of Spanish-speakers in their line of work and want to more adequately serve them. The other part of the students are those who are working in Spanish-speaking countries to help with community development: micro-businesses, education, agriculture, health care, community planning, adult education, or just running a business with Spanish workers.

 

I can't believe that someone would be so ignorant as to say that learning ANY foreign language would be unnecessary. My dc are fluent in Spanish and I see them relating to people of all cultures and races easily as well as picking up on other languages easily when they meet people from other countries.

 

And I'm sorry--the ruling class didn't stoop to learning the working class language? Really? You're going to use that as a good example of not learning Spanish? Where did that get those ruling classes historically? Not a very good example for sure.

 

What kind of a snob looks down on other cultures in this way. What a waste of a web site.

[Dayle in Guatemala]

Can you tell I'm a little upset?;):001_smile:

[elegantlion]

Can you tell I'm a little upset?;):001_smile:

 

Si.

Edited April 1, 2011 by elegantlion

[zaichiki]

Personally, I like this reason the best:

 

This is excellent logic. I think I'll apply it to other areas. Far too many Americans study math. I, personally, think math sucks. I think we'll diversify and focus on some other subject instead.

 

ROFLOL!

[zaichiki]

Quite a few european citizens happily speak the languages of their neighbors.

 

:party:

[stripe]

From the website

Unless one wants to pursue a career in manual labor or move to Mexico, there is very little practical advantage to learning Spanish and multiple intellectual advantages to studying other languages. Most Spanish speakers around the world are uneducated (e.g. the Amerindian / Mestizo populations of the New World), reinforcing Spanish's lowbrow aura.

"Most (Amerindian/Mestizo-dominated) Spanish-speaking countries have low average IQs (e.g. Equador, 80; Guatemala, 79; Mexico, 87; Puerto Rico, 84); whereas French and German-speaking countries have high average IQs (e.g. Austria, 102; Belgium, 100; France, 98; Germany, 102, and Switzerland, 101). To study a language in part is to study and mimic the people who speak it. The question then is whether one wants to emulate a low-IQ people or a high-IQ people. By Studying Spanish, one will imitate those of lower IQs."

1) A good number of the French speakers of the world have rather "tan" skin themselves; they live in north and subsaharan Africa. http://www.orbilat.com/Languages/French/index.html

2) Aren't these supposedly stupid, brown-skinned Spanish speakers "aspiring" to be Spanish instead of embracing their cultural traditions and speaking native Amerindian languages?

3) I thought Puerto Rico was a possession of the US.

4) In my experience, no matter what language people learn in school, they rarely use it.

5) Do we study a language because it's useful or because we want to be like those who speak it? These seem totally separate and contradictory to me. (What's next -- don't study Greek, you'll turn gay? Don't study Hindi, you'll start dancing all the time and eating spicy food? Don't study Latin, you'll find yourself without anyone to chat with? Don't study Chinese unless you really like rice? Give me a break.) Latin is of zero practical value as it's dead as a doornail. If the civilization is dead, then why emulate it? So unless you're planning to build a time machine, who gives a hoot? Likewise for studying those inane Roman Numerals of theirs.

[Violet Crown]

And I'm sorry--the ruling class didn't stoop to learning the working class language? Really?

Well, sure. The Normans, when they invaded England, didn't stoop to a low-class, defeated language like English. That's why we all speak French now.

[stripe]

Do you see the US bending over backward to make sure that everything, every label, includes not only the notes in English but in French/German/Gaelic/Dutch/Russian/etc? You get my point.

Aren't most of those products manufactured in another country? Like...China for instance? It's not often that I see anything that was made in the US, so their multilingual instructions are the least of my worries. In my (bilingual) household, it's kind of fun to see multilingualism at work, even if they're not in our languages, as a reminder to my kids that other languages do matter.

 

I suspect the manufacturers make the notes in multiple languages so they only have to print one sheet of instructions. Also for sales in North America, there must be Spanish (for Mexico) and Canada (for French), independent countries in which languages other than English are spoken. I've seen an increasing move to wordless directions, which is always a hoot.

[Sputterduck]

I will say the ninth reason about Spanish not being an inflected language does make sense to me.

 

Spanish is an inflected language.

[Sputterduck]

Personally, I am for learning a foreign language (ANY foreign language). HOWEVER, in the Southwest here, and evidently more and more throughout the US, we, as an English-speaking nation, seem to be bending over backward to coddle those Spanish-speaking immigrants who refuse to learn the native language here. And I do not agree with that! Do you see the US bending over backward to make sure that everything, every label, includes not only the notes in English but in French/German/Gaelic/Dutch/Russian/etc? You get my point. If we were to immigrate to another country, in order to carry on day to day activities, it would behoove us to learn the language of that country.

 

It seems that the author(s) of that site do have a bit of a skewed perspective. However, I can understand the frustration of dealing with people on a daily basis who refuse to learn the native language!

 

(Stepping off of soapbox now . . . )

 

Huh. Do you have any idea how many Americans live here in Mexico who don't know Spanish? Are you as critical of them?