Natalieclare Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 (edited) Around here, everyone assumes you're Christian so they don't mind ripping on atheism, assuming they're safe to do so because they won't offend anyone. Except it is hurtful. My dd 16 is paging in our state capital this week, and she is having the exact experience you describe except here Christianity is slammed (only 30% churched in our state). She has been shocked by the ignorant and intolerant verbage her fellow pages have used. It hasn't been directed at her, exactly, it's just background noise constantly on in their conversation. She's annoyed because she's just ready to be friends with everyone regardless of their faith or absence of it. Here's to :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: all around! Edited March 17, 2011 by Natalieclare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amey311 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 I often hesitate to mention that I am not Christian. Around here (where I live) it is simply assumed that you are. When you add in that fact that I have six kids, homeschool and believe in God well, people are always surprised to hear that I am not. I also find that it seems to be much more difficult for people to wrap their mind around someone who believes in God but does not belong to any religion. Around here, I sometimes feel tempted to explain that I'm not because I'm a homeschooling SAHM. I've had people assume I'm LDS because of those things (coupled with my dislike of coffee and wearing capris ;) - I actually had an LDS friend, who knew my lack of beliefs, joke that I was "wearing the uniform"). I also often feel tempted to explain specifically that I'm not a YE person. There's definitely an assumption of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyD Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 (only 3% churched in our state). Wait, what? This can't mean that there is a state in the U.S. in which only 3% of people consider themselves Christian, right? The last surveys I saw put the number at 76% nationally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silliness7 Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 As Rainman would say, "I'm an EXCELLENT driver." And I'm as fond of bedbugs as the next person. :auto: Re: the BMW, taken to its natural conclusion, it's incongruous for Christians to have expensive cars, expensive houses,expensive vacations, expensive educations. Of course many people who can afford some of these things also tithe. But, if you have enough leftover wealth to still buy a BMW, does that still make you appear less Christian? (perhaps) How far down the automotive totem do you need to drop before your purchase is no longer conspicuously incongruent? (Camry? Buick? Chevy?) By the standards of much of the rest of the world, owning a car is an extravagance. So, can ANY vehicle carry Christian symbolism without indentifying its owner as being in the wealthy quarter of the planet? Would it be awful if Bill Gates or Warren Buffett identified themselves as Christian (I have no idea if they are) because of their inherent wealth? Can any of us measure up to St. Francis of Assisi? Or should I cluck at the clueless Beemer people because I drive a Ford (although I own an inground pool?) Just tossing this out there as food for thought. I went to my Crown Financial Bible Study right after reading about Francis to the kiddos. So I threw that out there as food for thought. The consensus was that we are not all called to sell it all. It's a good and worthy thing to be able to employ people and create jobs and create wealth. My parents (good Christian people) used to drive a beemer. It was a piece of junk. Random things (not essential) would break and they wouldn't get them fixed because it was so expensive. The driver's side seatbelt broke and my dad would just use the passenger belt to buckle. Not the safest idea. :glare: I don't judge people based on the stuff they own. I hope no one judges me because I have an inground pool. It's not my fault. It came with the house. I can't exactly put it in my next garage sale. ;) I also have a piece of crap van that just died 4 hours ago at a very busy intersection on the way to our yearly rollerskating outing with our homeschool friends. :banghead: But the good news is it waited to break until after we got our emergency fund in place and now we can fix it without sweating it. .....sorry for the hijack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalieclare Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Wait, what? This can't mean that there is a state in the U.S. in which only 3% of people consider themselves Christian, right? The last surveys I saw put the number at 76% nationally. Woops! 30% ish Sorry...I will go correct that... http://www.gallup.com/poll/22579/church-attendance-lowest-new-england-highest-south.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted March 17, 2011 Share Posted March 17, 2011 Looking at it from the outside, I'd say that an expensive car, house, vacation, etc. is incongruous with being a Christian. There are a lot of admonitions against worldly wealth throughout the New Testament. OTOH, I think it's completely necessary for most Americans to own a car to get around. I don't the begrudge priests at the local parish dc attend their cars. They couldn't perform their duties without them. But, they're just utilitarian, inexpensive cars that get them where they need to go. The three priests have to share a fairly old, fairly small house. They don't get many creature comforts. They aren't walking around with a begging bowl, but I think they do try to live as materially simple a life as they can in suburban America. So, accepting your premise that there is an incongruity/incompatibility between wealth and Christianity, at what point does wealth become hypocrisy? For example, is it simply ridiculous to think a Bill Gates or Warren Buffett could be Christian? (again I don't know if they are) Can a Christian live in a wealthy neighborhood? Drive an expensive car? (no if it's new? yes if it's used?) Take expensive vacations? Take vacations at all? Would about education? Almost all private colleges would be considered 'expensive educations' at this point. How about the fact that if you are making an average salary in the U.S. (or, probably, any of the developed world), you are essentially one of the richer people on the planet? In other words, "rich." Then, there's Jesus' friend Lazarus. I don't know the answers to these questions myself. I don't feel any less a Christian now that I have an inground pool and 2 new cars, than I did when I was a broke college student with an occasionally functioning vehicle. Go to the Global Rich List calculator and see where you stand! Global Rich List ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Do you ever avoid letting people know you are a Christian? I find that I don't want to advertise my status as a Christian on my car, online, in person with acquaintances, etc. Why? Because I grew up with an atheist dad who commented regularly on how those Christians were the biggest jerks on the road. How did he know what they believed? By the bumper stickers or fish symbol on their car, of course. So, I have no bumper stickers or fish symbols on my car. I'm not a perfect driver. I tend towards being distracted easily. I know I've cut people off unintentionally when I didn't see them in my blind spot. If I'm lost or feeling rushed from being late, my driving gets bad. I don't want to negatively affect people's feelings about Christianity just because I get distracted or make mistakes in my driving. Same with real life encounters. I don't want my mistakes, my flaws to reflect negatively on Christ. I mean I forget things. I make mistakes. I get angry. I've lost my temper with my kids. These aren't God's fault, but people do look at us Christians and judge God harshly by our human-ness. So, I tend to hide the fact that I'm Christian for others until I feel safe around them...or until I find out they share my beliefs. My science thread is an example. When I was asked which curriculum had those experiments, I didn't want to say because they were in a creation-based text. Now we all are a bunch of monsters who torture (I used the term facetiously) animals, all in the name of God. :glare: The truth is these textbooks and experiments have increased our respect for and awe for these creatures and their creator. He created some amazing beautiful, creative, colorful, interesting, etc. etc. etc. animals. As a Muslim, I can say a lot of these reasons correspond with my hesitation to wear hijab or to put anything on my car or otherwise publicize my religion. Anyway, you're not alone. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguirre Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Can a Christian live in a wealthy neighborhood? Drive an expensive car? (no if it's new? yes if it's used?) Take expensive vacations? Take vacations at all? Would about education? Almost all private colleges would be considered 'expensive educations' at this point. No, I don't think someone who takes the Christian message seriously could do those things. The people I know who are really serious Christians have given their goods to charity and live far below their means. Members of religious orders, Opus Dei numeraries, parish priests, etc. do live this way. Even devout laity (OD supernumeraries, Franciscan tertiaries, etc.) do live as simply as possible given their family obligations. I'm sure other religious traditions have similar examples, but mine are drawn from my experience which is mainly Catholic. But, does it really matter what I think? I'm not a Christian, I don't follow the recommendations of the NT, and dh is planning to buy a luxury car soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mama2cntrykids Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Just poping in to say, I have a In God We Trust decal in my van window. And, yes, I *have* thought about ppl passing judgement on me. I guess it doesn't bother me enought to scrape it off. I would feel like I'm defacing the motto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mergath Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I'm a Pagan with Buddhist leanings, not a Christian, and I have a little pentacle on my car. It's not there because I want to brag about being a Pagan, but because in our small, rural, predominantly-Christian town, there is a scant handful of non-Christians. I have it on my car so that the other Pagans out there know they're not alone, and so they can find me and say hi if I'm at the laundromat or something. :D And people around here already think of us as that weird, hippie family who walks a lot (this is a town where there are more Hummers than hybrids) and worships the devil (since anything other than their faith is the devil) so I'm not worried about them thinking badly of me and my faith. They already do, no matter how nice I am or how much good I do. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I don't think I advertise my faith, but I also don't make any attempt to deny it, and if it comes up, readily provide info that would allow anyone to know that I am Christian. Maybe I'm not the norm, but I've never made value statements about "those darn Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Atheists," etc. based on how someone of that religion behaves. All people are fallen and all sin. All make mistakes and our genetics and upbringing will play a large part in how we react to those mistakes or to any situation we encounter during the course of a day. We may be Christian, or Jewish, or Muslim, etc., but that doesn't mean that we will act or react as a saint or an angel to every (or any) situation we encounter. We will, unfortunately, never be perfect. But neither will any of our fellow humans.... I think the point - and the beautiful thing - about the Golden Rule being found within every religion is that love (agape love) really is the answer to everything here on earth. If we all act in love in everything we do, everyone's mistakes and imperfections are always going to be forgiven, and there's nothing to be ashamed of.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trish Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 No, I don't think someone who takes the Christian message seriously could do those things. The people I know who are really serious Christians have given their goods to charity and live far below their means. Members of religious orders, Opus Dei numeraries, parish priests, etc. do live this way. Even devout laity (OD supernumeraries, Franciscan tertiaries, etc.) do live as simply as possible given their family obligations. I'm sure other religious traditions have similar examples, but mine are drawn from my experience which is mainly Catholic. But, does it really matter what I think? I'm not a Christian, I don't follow the recommendations of the NT, and dh is planning to buy a luxury car soon. I don't know many people who live as simply as possible. so under that definition not many would be taking the Christian message seriously. That is a challenging viewpoint, but a fair one to hold. Especially for people who by virtue of living in a wealthy nation, are among the richest on the planet. Even at average middle class salaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvtheOzarks Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Looking at it from the outside, I'd say that an expensive car, house, vacation, etc. is incongruous with being a Christian. My faith in Christ won't change if I win the HGTV Dream Home in Vermont! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 So, accepting your premise that there is an incongruity/incompatibility between wealth and Christianity, at what point does wealth become hypocrisy? For example, is it simply ridiculous to think a Bill Gates or Warren Buffett could be Christian? (again I don't know if they are) Can a Christian live in a wealthy neighborhood? Drive an expensive car? (no if it's new? yes if it's used?) Take expensive vacations? Take vacations at all? Would about education? Almost all private colleges would be considered 'expensive educations' at this point. How about the fact that if you are making an average salary in the U.S. (or, probably, any of the developed world), you are essentially one of the richer people on the planet? In other words, "rich." Then, there's Jesus' friend Lazarus. I don't know the answers to these questions myself. I don't feel any less a Christian now that I have an inground pool and 2 new cars, than I did when I was a broke college student with an occasionally functioning vehicle. Go to the Global Rich List calculator and see where you stand! Global Rich List ;) We make little enough to get our Fed taxes fully refunded, but we're in the top 2%. What I find interesting is that Christians with anything (a house, a car, or goodness gracious! a television set) are considered to be "bad" Christians, yet we make laws in the US that prohibit one from selling it all off and living like a disciple. If you were homeless, with no income, walking from town to town spreading God's word (children trailing along behind you) you'd end up (at the very least) losing your children. It's hard enough to go without scrutiny when you live without utilities. From what I've read the "eye of the needle" through which a camel must pass (being the equivalent of a rich person into heaven) is a comparison of a small doorway (called the needle). In order for a camel to get through it had to crawl. IOW, from my understanding, as long as you can remain humble (which most of the wealthy/comfortable Christians I know irl are) you're okay. You can't worship money, you can't make it the be all end all, but you can have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mytwomonkeys Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 homeschooling, faith, politics, and parenting methods (vaccines, discipline, etc) are all conversation pieces that are best left alone when first making friends with someone, at least that has been my experience. unless it is obvious that one of the above items is an existing common denominator - i let those topics come up naturally. i don't advertise my faith on my car, & honestly i see no benefit in doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pam Wilhelm Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I'm a Pagan with Buddhist leanings, not a Christian, and I have a little pentacle on my car. It's not there because I want to brag about being a Pagan, but because in our small, rural, predominantly-Christian town, there is a scant handful of non-Christians. I have it on my car so that the other Pagans out there know they're not alone, and so they can find me and say hi if I'm at the laundromat or something. :D And people around here already think of us as that weird, hippie family who walks a lot (this is a town where there are more Hummers than hybrids) and worships the devil (since anything other than their faith is the devil) so I'm not worried about them thinking badly of me and my faith. They already do, no matter how nice I am or how much good I do. :glare: You're in MN and people say "Hi!" to you????? We've lived here for a couple of years now and most people look at us like we have three heads! :lol: Having moved here from GA we are in culture shock...not from the cold...but from the lack of casual conversation. :001_huh: :lol: Oh...to get back on track........ we are Christian Scientists.... we don't tell anybody (nobody in MN talks to us anyway) but we aren't afraid to. It just never has the opportunity to come up. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXMomof4 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 No, I don't think someone who takes the Christian message seriously could do those things. The people I know who are really serious Christians have given their goods to charity and live far below their means. Members of religious orders, Opus Dei numeraries, parish priests, etc. do live this way. Even devout laity (OD supernumeraries, Franciscan tertiaries, etc.) do live as simply as possible given their family obligations. I'm sure other religious traditions have similar examples, but mine are drawn from my experience which is mainly Catholic. But, does it really matter what I think? I'm not a Christian, I don't follow the recommendations of the NT, and dh is planning to buy a luxury car soon. I went to an extrememly wealthy church in Dallas. Of course there were people there who held onto their money and gave their 10% and called themselves good. However, the majority of the people I knew were generous to the extreme. They did live in nice homes, drive nice cars, etc. They also managed on an individual basis to support missionaries independantly, build and help support orphanages, help entire families in times of need - their generosity was never stinting or lacking. If they had given their money away and given up their position in "high-powered" jobs they would never have been able to make the financial impact that they have. I'd even say there's biblical examples of wealthy people using their social position to benefit the church. Lydia was a successful business person who used her money and position to benefit the church. She didn't quit what she was doing and sell everything. Priscilla and Aquila used their business to provide support to Paul. It's very easy for me to judge - you can't be a real christian driving a mercedes. However, I find that I'm the one holding onto that money when the collection plate comes around. When confronted with that individuals need, I'm the one figuring how much I want to give, not how much I can afford to give. I do honestly believe that God has continued to bless those people because they have proven that they can be trusted to give with an open heart. I'm not sure I could. As far as advertising my faith, the Bible doesn't once say they'll know we are Christians by our bumper stickers. That isn't really witnessing. It doesn't bother me, but at the same time, how many people have been brought to Christ by a bumper sticker? In face to face interactions I don't hide that I'm a Christian and I always try to behave and respond in a manner that God will be proud of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguirre Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 If they had given their money away and given up their position in "high-powered" jobs they would never have been able to make the financial impact that they have. The Opus Dei members I personally know do have "high-powered" jobs but other than a professional wardrobe they live simply. You don't need an expensive house or luxury car to do your job, although you do need to look appropriate. It's not really a question of the absolute amount you give to charity, it's the percentage of your income you give and how you choose to live your life. Their way of life is the antithesis of the Prosperity Gospel movement. I'm sure there's some equivalent in other Christian traditions, but dh went to an OD school so that's what we know. And honestly, lots of people with money choose to live this way for personal rather than religious reasons (Warren Buffett and Bill Gates come to mind). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom-ninja. Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I'm not Christian but I don't go around advertising my views. Basically for the same reasons Secular Mom posted. There are crazy people who feel they are justified in attacking non-Christians and their property. I am mature enough to realize that just because I see one person, who happens to be Christian, act a certain way that not every Christian acts that way. However, I did shake my head the other day at what I saw. I was dropping my kids off at karate, and there was a work truck parked next to the building. The truck had a sorts of Christian stickers and sayings all over it. The two men that were picking up their tools were swearing and cussing to the extent that sailors would have blushed. One of the men barely had his pants on as well. I'm not talking plumber butt, I'm talking his whole bare back end was out in the open. I blocked my children's view and quickly ushered them inside while talking very loudly to try and cover the language coming from the men. By the time I went back out a few minutes later they were gone. Yes, that made me scratch my head and wonder if they think they are good examples of Christianity. Perhaps they weren't the ones who decorated the truck. :tongue_smilie: As for the science textbook being Apologia, I will also say I wasn't surprised. Now, am I saying that if you use that book that you don't care about animals? No. I know there are plenty of Christians who do stand up for animal rights and humane treatment. That said, I have also met Christians (and non-Christians) who believe that it is a human privilege to use animals in any way for human use. So, I'm not surprised when I come across that belief. That does not mean that if I meet you and find out you are Christian that I think you are fine with torturing animals or that you suffer from road rage. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele B Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) That has never occurred to me. My daughters' names are Mary Margaret and Isabella Claire - whenever I yell at them - I mean call their names ;)- in public, some stranger always asks if we are catholic. I wear crosses and crucifixes and have a "Think Medieval Thoughts" Bumper sticker. I do this as an outward sign of my love for Jesus, much as I wear a wedding ring for my husband. It also serves as a good reminder for ME to BEHAVE! ;) It's always helpful to remember that The Church is a hospital for people who are sick - with sin. If Christians were perfect they would not need the Church or the Cross - right? ;) Or related bumper stickers and jewelry! :lol: Wearing a cross SHOULD be an admission and acknowledgment of one's own badness and need, not "I'm so perfect!" Edited March 18, 2011 by Michele B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michele B Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 That said, I get really annoyed by cheesy religious bumper stickers. But I suppose that is totally subjective? :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny_Weatherwax Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 For what it's worth, I do have a chalice decal (the symbol of my denomination) on my car. I doubt most people know what it is, though. I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OH_Homeschooler Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I don't know if there are a lot of atheist bumper stickers (I'm just not into bumper stickers in general). But I know about the COEXIST sticker, and my Christian BIL was completely ripping on that last week. I don't get it, what's so wrong with the idea of people from different religions getting along? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 The Opus Dei members I personally know do have "high-powered" jobs but other than a professional wardrobe they live simply. You don't need an expensive house or luxury car to do your job, although you do need to look appropriate. It's not really a question of the absolute amount you give to charity, it's the percentage of your income you give and how you choose to live your life. Their way of life is the antithesis of the Prosperity Gospel movement. I'm sure there's some equivalent in other Christian traditions, but dh went to an OD school so that's what we know. And honestly, lots of people with money choose to live this way for personal rather than religious reasons (Warren Buffett and Bill Gates come to mind). So where's the cut off? Where's the sliding scale? Do we live humbly, yes, we do, but no where near like what Bill or Warren live like--much more humble than them. but to a woman in a hut-yes, I am wealthy beyond her comprehension. So am I out? I'm not giving enough away for me to make it as a Christian on your scale? I should live in one room with my 7 kids --is that pious enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 So where's the cut off? Where's the sliding scale? Do we live humbly, yes, we do, but no where near like what Bill or Warren live like--much more humble than them. but to a woman in a hut-yes, I am wealthy beyond her comprehension. So am I out? I'm not giving enough away for me to make it as a Christian on your scale? I should live in one room with my 7 kids --is that pious enough? You and I rarely see eye to eye, but here I am with you. Prosperity in all its forms seems like another way for Christians to get torn apart, to build up barriers, to become better or not as good, "real" or "bad." Irk. In this case, I'm wondering how many of the people calling Christians unChristian for having any money at all are actual Christians? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguirre Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 So where's the cut off? Where's the sliding scale? Do we live humbly, yes, we do, but no where near like what Bill or Warren live like--much more humble than them. but to a woman in a hut-yes, I am wealthy beyond her comprehension. So am I out? I'm not giving enough away for me to make it as a Christian on your scale? I should live in one room with my 7 kids --is that pious enough? I don't know, you have to decide that for yourself. I don't think my opinion should have much bearing on your view of your own religious obligations. I'm just saying that there are groups that do in fact have that as their discipline. It is possible to have material simplicity as a goal, even if you earn quite a bit of money and live in a rich society. And in my personal opinion, a beemer is completely contrary to that simplicity which is preached extensively in the NT. I'm so certain of that position that I feel no compunction pointing out the hypocrisy of a fish sticker on a BMW to my children. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I do. Cool! There are a few others on these boards who would recognize it, too. But out in the wide world . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I don't know if there are a lot of atheist bumper stickers (I'm just not into bumper stickers in general). But I know about the COEXIST sticker, and my Christian BIL was completely ripping on that last week. I don't get it, what's so wrong with the idea of people from different religions getting along? Take a look here: http://www.evolvefish.com/ Despite the fact that I'm not Christian, I find many of their items offensive. But some are extremely funny, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooblink Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 You and I rarely see eye to eye, but here I am with you. Prosperity in all its forms seems like another way for Christians to get torn apart, to build up barriers, to become better or not as good, "real" or "bad." Irk. In this case, I'm wondering how many of the people calling Christians unChristian for having any money at all are actual Christians? Good point. What's up with that, when non-Christians feel free to judge professing Christians on whether or not they are Christian enough? I hear it all the time. FWIW, Christians do a good enough job judging each other. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionfamily1999 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Good point. What's up with that, when non-Christians feel free to judge professing Christians on whether or not they are Christian enough? I hear it all the time. FWIW, Christians do a good enough job judging each other. :D It's not so much their passing judgement as allowing that judgement to shake us. Everyone has an opinion. Whether or not you entertain it is up to you, know what I mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I don't know, you have to decide that for yourself. I don't think my opinion should have much bearing on your view of your own religious obligations. I'm just saying that there are groups that do in fact have that as their discipline. It is possible to have material simplicity as a goal, even if you earn quite a bit of money and live in a rich society. And in my personal opinion, a beemer is completely contrary to that simplicity which is preached extensively in the NT. I'm so certain of that position that I feel no compunction pointing out the hypocrisy of a fish sticker on a BMW to my children. Then why bother coming onto a CC thread, when you are not, and telling us how you think wealthy Christians ought to live? Are you trying to get wealthy Christians to change? Pointing out what hypocrites we are? What's your gain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguirre Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Then why bother coming onto a CC thread, when you are not, and telling us how you think wealthy Christians ought to live? Are you trying to get wealthy Christians to change? Pointing out what hypocrites we are? What's your gain? The OP posted that she didn't want to have a fish on her car because she's not a very good driver and felt people would have a negative impression of Christianity if she did. While I can certainly understand the distracted mom cutting someone off and I wouldn't think the worse of her religion for it, I do think that publicly professing your Christianity while clearly not following a basic tenet invites comment. I think my opinion is very relevant to the conversation at hand. I think that you all should be aware that if you stick a fish on your car the rest of us will form our opinion of Christianity based on your behavior (isn't that the point of publicly declaring your religion on your car?) Of course, you can take our opinion into account or not, that's entirely up to you. ps: I'm leaving for the weekend now so I won't post anymore to this thread. I'm not ignoring anyone, I'm just offline for the long weekend. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalieclare Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 . And in my personal opinion, a beemer is completely contrary to that simplicity which is preached extensively in the NT. I'm so certain of that position that I feel no compunction pointing out the hypocrisy of a fish sticker on a BMW to my children. But you have no idea about the beemer...what if it was the cast-offs of a wealthier relative? what if it was a wedding gift or graduation gift? It seems presumptuous to me to point out hypocrisy without full knowledge of a situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooblink Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 The OP posted that she didn't want to have a fish on her car because she's not a very good driver and felt people would have a negative impression of Christianity if she did. While I can certainly understand the distracted mom cutting someone off and I wouldn't think the worse of her religion for it, I do think that publicly professing your Christianity while clearly not following a basic tenet invites comment. I think my opinion is very relevant to the conversation at hand. I think that you all should be aware that if you stick a fish on your car the rest of us will form our opinion of Christianity based on your behavior (isn't that the point of publicly declaring your religion on your car?) Of course, you can take our opinion into account or not, that's entirely up to you. ps: I'm leaving for the weekend now so I won't post anymore to this thread. I'm not ignoring anyone, I'm just offline for the long weekend. :001_smile: Meh, poverty, or even simplicity, isn't a basic tenet of Christianity. Judge not lest you be judged...there's a tenet. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retired Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I live in the Bible belt and no everyone is not a Christian but the secular folks aren't' hostile toward Christians I am vocal about being a Christian in that in a conversation I will say that my decisions/opinion are from Christian worldview. I don't preach to people. I do have a state issued tag like this. When you go for a car tag you have choice to have the God Bless American car tag. I know the liberal bloggers spew all the "can't believe state has religious tag" It is a choice they offer to us that are tax payers and Christian. I don't' do fish symbols and stickers. I wouldn't of got a special tag but since they were offering this one at no additional cost. I don't have a problem people knowing how I believe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 The OP posted that she didn't want to have a fish on her car because she's not a very good driver and felt people would have a negative impression of Christianity if she did. While I can certainly understand the distracted mom cutting someone off and I wouldn't think the worse of her religion for it, I do think that publicly professing your Christianity while clearly not following a basic tenet invites comment. I think my opinion is very relevant to the conversation at hand. I think that you all should be aware that if you stick a fish on your car the rest of us will form our opinion of Christianity based on your behavior (isn't that the point of publicly declaring your religion on your car?) Of course, you can take our opinion into account or not, that's entirely up to you. ps: I'm leaving for the weekend now so I won't post anymore to this thread. I'm not ignoring anyone, I'm just offline for the long weekend. :001_smile: And, what if I bought my Benz for a grand, and it "just happened" that I needed a car and fell into a deal? Or are you just judging me on the brand alone? And who is the hypocrite then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I live in the Bible belt and no everyone is not a Christian but the secular folks aren't' hostile toward Christians I am vocal about being a Christian in that in a conversation I will say that my decisions/opinion are from Christian worldview. I don't preach to people. I do have a state issued tag like this. When you go for a car tag you have choice to have the God Bless American car tag. I know the liberal bloggers spew all the "can't believe state has religious tag" It is a choice they offer to us that are tax payers and Christian. I don't' do fish symbols and stickers. I wouldn't of got a special tag but since they were offering this one at no additional cost. I don't have a problem people knowing how I believe Gimme a break, the President says it almost every time he's on TV. Write letters to him telling him to stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OH_Homeschooler Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I know the liberal bloggers spew all the "can't believe state has religious tag" Will they? I don't mind that it's an option, just don't make it my only choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobela Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 So, accepting your premise that there is an incongruity/incompatibility between wealth and Christianity, at what point does wealth become hypocrisy? For example, is it simply ridiculous to think a Bill Gates or Warren Buffett could be Christian? (again I don't know if they are) Can a Christian live in a wealthy neighborhood? Drive an expensive car? (no if it's new? yes if it's used?) Take expensive vacations? Take vacations at all? Would about education? Almost all private colleges would be considered 'expensive educations' at this point. How about the fact that if you are making an average salary in the U.S. (or, probably, any of the developed world), you are essentially one of the richer people on the planet? In other words, "rich." Then, there's Jesus' friend Lazarus. I don't know the answers to these questions myself. I don't feel any less a Christian now that I have an inground pool and 2 new cars, than I did when I was a broke college student with an occasionally functioning vehicle. Go to the Global Rich List calculator and see where you stand! Global Rich List ;) There is nothing in the Bible that says having wealth is a sin. Nothing. However, wealth can prevent a proper relationship with God if the wealth is not used appropriately, or attaining wealth becomes more important than worshipping God. That is why there are warnings about being wealthy, we are never told that we can't have wealth though. It is pride that can be an issue with deliberately being poor - look at me, I have fasted and sacrificed and beat myself to show just how little I have and that makes me a better Christian than you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gooblink Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 There is nothing in the Bible that says having wealth is a sin. Nothing. However, wealth can prevent a proper relationship with God if the wealth is not used appropriately, or attaining wealth becomes more important than worshipping God. That is why there are warnings about being wealthy, we are never told that we can't have wealth though. It is pride that can be an issue with deliberately being poor - look at me, I have fasted and sacrificed and beat myself to show just how little I have and that makes me a better Christian than you. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I am reluctant and reticent to share my faith/viewpoint, but not at all for the same reasons as the OP. The first is primarily temperment. As an extreme introvert, my faith/spirituality is intensely *personal*. I'm not an evangelist (never was, even when I self-identified more strongly with Christian). Now, if someone with whom I had an appropriate relationship *asked*, I'd share. For example, I've shared with people I have sponsored in AA. The relationship is by design intimate and spirituality is a facet of my role with that person. From a clinical perspective, I will share, limited, if my client first brings it up, it is clinically helpful and the agency/institution for which I am working allows that. There is one client I have in the nursing home, for example, that I read the "Daily Word" to and I disclose that it is helpful to me every Tuesday and Thursday for her to allow me to read her "Daily Word". I don't wear insignia and I don't offer information. It's not about being "Christ on earth". It's actually that I don't believe "Christian" comes with any particular behavior/character/principles. So, I don't withhold sharing so as to not live up to something. Another reason I don't share is because I don't align with most Christian's ideas of Christian. I talk more about that here than anywhere, and I censor that dramatically. I'm way, way, way not a fan of the fish signs on businesses or advertisements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatCyndiGirl Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 That doesn't really apply to me, LOL, but I don't want to advertise my atheism or political views with bumper stickers etc. cause I'm afraid of p!ssing off some nutter who'll slash my tires or stalk my family. Seriously. In Oklahoma it is downright DANGEROUS to let one's "lack of xianity" be known amongst the general public. Vandalism, death threats, etc. "God's people" around these here parts don't take kindly to people not seeing their point of view.....and can't be bothered to see anyone else's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 In Oklahoma it is downright DANGEROUS to let one's "lack of xianity" be known amongst the general public. Vandalism, death threats, etc. "God's people" around these here parts don't take kindly to people not seeing their point of view.....and can't be bothered to see anyone else's. Close by here in Texas, there is a large Christian over-culture. The assumption *is* Christian, period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest momk2000 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 It's a part of who I am, and I don't advertise it, just as I don't go around advertising other aspects of my life that are also a part of who I am. I don't conciously decide, ok, I'm not going to advertise that I am Christian, etc... I just figure as people get to know me they will see that is a part of who I am by the choices I make and the way I live my day to day life. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secular_mom Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Gimme a break, the President says it almost every time he's on TV. Write letters to him telling him to stop. :confused: Could you clarify what it is that one should ask the president to stop doing? I really don't understand (and I feel a bit dense). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6packofun Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) I know what you mean. Sometimes, I do seriously consider playing it cool and keeping my light under a bushel, so to speak. If your light appears to others as an inviting glow that gets brighter the more they see Christ in your life, then no, don't hide it! If it's a pair of those frightful new LED headlights on a big honking SUV that they're afraid is going to run them down? Yeah, go ahead and dim it a bit. :auto: :P Edited March 18, 2011 by 6packofun add Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibbygirl Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 If your light appears to others as an inviting glow that gets brighter the more they see Christ in your life, then no, don't hide it! If it's a pair of those frightful new LED headlights on a big honking SUV that they're afraid is going to run them down? Yeah, go ahead and dim it a bit. :auto: :P :) Love this. hehe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivka Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Originally Posted by Jenny in Florida For what it's worth, I do have a chalice decal (the symbol of my denomination) on my car. I doubt most people know what it is, though. I was once standing in line at a deli when the young woman behind me noticed my chalice necklace. She got so excited. "Hey! You're a Unitarian-Universalist! I just wrote a report about you guys for school!" I'm not totally sure she knew we were real people before that encounter - we were just a report topic, I guess. I was so glad to be an enriching cultural experience while I waited for my lunch. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda1951 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 I have a bumper sticker that says "I am Second". No one has asked me yet what it means. A good way to talk about God to someone. If they refuse all you can do is walk away. God tells us we will be ridiculed. God Tells us they should know us by how we act and talk and treat people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justamouse Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 :confused: Could you clarify what it is that one should ask the president to stop doing? I really don't understand (and I feel a bit dense). The license plate says God Bless America, and the pp said how some people might protest that-I was just saying (not well, mind you ) that the President says that at the end of every talk on TV. If a person really has a problem with it, they might want to write him a letter and ask him to stop saying it before they fight for it to come off a license plate. You're not dense, I wasn't communicating well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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