Gardening for the desperate

[Murphy101]

So I'm gearing up for taxes and for the fun of it, decided to go through receipts.

 

I will never say what we spent on groceries total.

 

But it ain't good when the cost of milk alone is $1100

And produce alone, keeping in mind we wont buy it unless it looks good, which usually means seasonal, is....

 

..... Gulp

 

... $3200!!!!!!

 

Holy carp!

 

We need a garden! A big high yield, but low maintenance bc I have zero desire to live in the yard during the end of a pregnancy or with a newborn in June.

 

So where can I find the best information on how to do this right, bc I can't afford to waste money screwing it up AND then still buying produce. I live in a housing division, the backyard is mostly level with patches of shade from trees and full sunlight. Dh does not have time to help and honestly, I am herding 9.5 kids, so please - don't make it complicated!

 

Dh says if we (that's a royal we. He obviously means ME) can get a good garden going this year, then he would be willing to invest in one of those small greenhouses to extend our growing into the cold seasons. Ohhh. I am motivated now. Summer sweet tomatoes from my own garden in DECEMBER?! Oh yeah. I am all over that idea!!!

 

Anyone care to offer suggestions and tips? Links? Books?

 

Thanks!

[Tarreymere]

:bigear:

[gardening momma]

Dave's Garden is a forum that I've found helpful. A large part of it is for subscribing members only, but I've found a lot of info in the free part (I've never subscribed). The beginner gardening forums there are free.

 

I would suggest starting out a little at a time--save the greenhouse for another year (I would love to have a greenhouse!!). Look up square foot gardening, and research what plants are cool weather plants and which do better in the heat of summer. I subscribe to a magazine called Gardening How-To by the National Home Gardening Club. I just found out that carrots are cool weather plants, which explains why mine have not grown for the last 2 years. :glare:

 

We are considering a move, and I hope we can do it before it's time to plant.

 

If you're interested in raised beds, you might first try raised beds without borders. I think I read about that here on the WTM forum. I think I'll do that at my next house to save money.

Edited January 14, 2011 by gardening momma

[The Girls' Mom]

http://www.squarefootgardening.com/

 

Square foot gardening! It works, and you get a high yield for the space. When we were doing it, I didn't do all the soil mixing it recommended, but we had access to some really good dirt. And make the kids help :001_smile:

[fairfarmhand]

another vote for square foot gardening.

[Murphy101]

Oh yes, I think I wasn't clear. Dh was saying if we get a garden in find it beneficial, NEXT year he would be willing to consider a green house so the befit is year round.

 

This year I would like:

 

A salad type garden, because we eat a LOT of salad foods. Grape and whole tomatoes, cucumber, romaine and iceberg lettuce, a couple herbs would be nice too. Maybe some sweet dill.

 

I would also like to plant a couple fruit bushes, blueberry?

 

Some squash, carrots, onions, garlic

 

Maybe some pumpkin and watermelon or cantaloupe.

 

I have sweet potato out there somewhere that was planted for a science experiment. LOL. I don't know if it woukd make it from last April through the winter tho.

 

Oh and some corn and peas.

 

We would love strawberries, but I cannot seem to ever get them to thrive. Well not true ONE year I did, but the wild beasts and birds were always faster than us.

 

These are the main produce purchases we make that I can see gardening. We'd have to till the entire yard to get enough potatoes, so that's not going to happen. And we really can't put up more trees, so that nixes fruit trees.

 

I know that is way too much for a newbie. But where to start? Keeping in mind it isn't worth it unless we get enough yield of that plant to feed us all? So I'd rather plant enough tomato for us all, than a bunch of plants that don't produce enough of anything for us all.

[Murphy101]

http://www.squarefootgardening.com/

 

Square foot gardening! It works, and you get a high yield for the space. When we were doing it, I didn't do all the soil mixing it recommended, but we had access to some really good dirt. And make the kids help :001_smile:

 

Okay. I believe you.

 

But honestly, just the pictures look complicated and kind of scary to this newbie.

 

It also looks like it would take lots of expensive bordering?

 

Couldn't make the link work on iPad, but did a google search.

[Jen in PA]

:lurk5: We have done small, but this year are planning to go big.

[ktgrok]

 

http://www.gardenweb.com. the people on the forums are awesome. find the one for your area so you know what works where you live.

[Murphy101]

LOLOL. I think I need someone to decide to do some guerilla gardening in my yard. The things you leaner on the Internet.

[Carol in Cal.]

What is it that costs the most and is easiest to grow?

 

For me it's fresh herbs. Those are SO expensive in the stores, and they thrive on neglect. Perfect! Basil is especially nice to have around in big quantities.

 

Garden tomatoes are so much better than store that they are ALWAYS worth it.

 

If you're in OK, do salad greens grow in the winter there? Here in CA we don't have much frost, so we can grow salad fall, winter, and spring, but in the summer it tends to bolt unless it is in a very shady spot. Arugula and mache are a real treat in the garden and pretty expensive in the stores.

 

Peas and green beans are REALLY easy to grow, and they are fun to be able to pick and use. They bear repeatedly, so they are really worthwhile.

 

I have never had much luck with growing berries either. Radishes are easy and fast and the kids can grow them in little garden patches of their own. If you don't have a lot of frost, artichokes are easy to grow and a big savings. They get aphids, but you can hose them right off. I have grown cabbage, and it's nice because it has a long 'ripe' period--you can pick it young or older. Again, you want flexibility like that.

 

If you do decide to try for fruit, I recommend dwarf or super dwarf fruit trees with several varieties grafted on each one. I have pear tree like that, and friends of mine have a tree with peaches, nectarines, and some kind of plum all on the same tree. The nice thing about it is both the variety and the varied ripening seasons--if they are a little 'off' you can end up with fresh fruit for weeks or months instead of days. You can grow citrus in big tubs and keep it on the small side. Meyer lemons are especially nice because they bear almost all year round.

[Tammyla]

See if your library has a copy of Squarefoot Gardening, by Mel Bartholomew.

 

We use his soil mix. (The NO Weeding!) We tried another box with good organic stuff from the garden store last year, but the yield was much, much less, and the savings weren't that great, and the weeds were plentiful. We will just amend the big box we have this spring and reuse it again.

 

Your library may have container gardening classes, and they are a great place to share seeds, ideas and meet people sharing your interests.

 

Another veggie option is to find a local CSA. Some will let you work for the produce, by hosting a pick-up weekly at your home.

[Denisemomof4]

I believe the strawberry pyramids would be a great choice for you. It would take up less space and I've heard the yield is good. If you do a google search you will find some kits and also some ideas to build your own, which I know you don't want to do right now. Also, there is a type of netting you can buy to protect your berries from birds. I haven't tried it yet but have seen it used on many farms.

 

Also, I've heard that tomatoes grow even better in containers. I don't know if anyone here can add any input but I've had them grow BEAUTIFULLY in an old whisky barrel half. They did do better in that than they did in the ground.

 

If I were in your shoes and really wanted to start a garden, for this year I'd focus on the veggies that are pricier and just buy the things like garlic and such locally because it's pretty cheap anyway. It's always healthier to grow your own but you've got other things going on right now. ;)

 

When you are able to get serious about a garden and have the energy and help to get it started, raised beds, like those shown on the sf garden page really do better than growing straight in the ground. It offers better drainage, etc. I forget all the benefits of them.

 

Also look into veggies that you'll plant once and have an unending crop for years to come like asparagus, fiddle heads, rhubarb.

 

I had to get rid of my raised beds last year due to poisonous sumac. I can't WAIT to get started again this spring.

[Truscifi]

The square foot gardening boxes aren't that expensive. Get cheap wood at a local hardware store, you can ask if they have any discounted wood that isn't straight. It doesn't have to be all pretty and decorative.

[Wyndie]

:bigear:

[Julie in CA]

Love the Square-Foot Gardening book, but I also love Lasagna Gardening. :001_smile:

[RegGuheert]

You may also want to look into Gardening When it Counts: Growing Food in Hard Times.

[BakersDozen]

Keeping in mind it isn't worth it unless we get enough yield of that plant to feed us all?

I have yet to find a way to grow anything that will feed us all for more than oh, a week or so. If there was a food shortage and we had to rely on our garden, we'd starve. We've tried it all: tomatoes, corn, berries, peas, beans, potatoes, pumpkin... Last year most of our front yard and all of our back yielded 3 tomatoes, 6 beans, 4 watermelon and a bunch of blackberries. That would last us one snack if that. ;)

 

I'm trying container gardening one more year but if it doesn't work then I figure I'm better off buying produce than spending a ridiculous amount on soil, water and all the other stuff I need yet getting basically nothing for it.

 

I did find one way to get some produce for free: I watch 2 boys in the afternoon and in exchange their mom brings snacks for all the kids which includes lots of fresh fruit. :D

[Murphy101]

Hmm..

 

Okay, my yard is a decent size and mostly empty except for trees along the fence, the covered patio, and a koi pond in an area where I couldn't grow much anyways.

 

I think I would like to grow maybe one or two small raised beds of lettuce, tomatoes, and cucumber and a dwaft seedless melon and dill at the least to get started?

 

We purchased a layered compost bin at the end of growing season on sale for $20 last year. I want to get that set up and started bc soil is yet another expense. Also, we have a rabbit that I swear poos triple it's body weight every day and the old guy that sold us the compose bin said rabbit poo is awesome fertilizer. Dh went looking and sure enough, worst case scenario we could make money selling rabbit poo compost if we don't use it for our own garden.

 

What about recycling stuff for raised beds instead of making wooden ones? Anyone do that? I figure between free cycle and craigslist I might slowly get some useless stuff that wouldn't completely make the HOA spaz.

[justamouse]

I *LOVE* Barbara Damrosch's A Garden Primer. I'm into *useful* workhorse gardening books.

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0761122753/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0894803166&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0XXXY291CP59EB20E3VF

 

Also, I love

Carrots Live Tomatoes. It's like listening to your Nana teach you how to garden. It's got a whole life's worth of gardening wisdom in there.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Carrots-Love-Tomatoes-Companion-Successful/dp/1580170277/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1295029549&sr=1-1

 

The Organic Gardening magazine's forums are very useful.

 

I buy my seeds from Baker Creek Seeds

 

www.rareseeds.com

 

the owner, Jere Gettle was a homeschooler and started this business when he was a teen by saving the heirloom seeds from plants he grew. All the corn is GMO tested and if you want to eat the best tomatoes you've ever eaten IN YOUR LIFE buy a pack of the Paul Robeson Tomatoes

 

http://rareseeds.com/paul-robeson-tomato.html

 

This famous tomato has almost a cult following among seed collectors and tomato connoisseurs. They simply cannot get enough of this variety’s amazing flavor that is so distinctive, sweet and smokey. 7-10 oz. fruit are a black-brick color. Named in honor of the famous opera singer star of ‘King Solomon's Mines’, 1937. Paul Robeson was also a Russian and Equal Rights Advocate for Blacks. This Russian heirloom was lovingly named in his honor. We are proud to offer such a wonderful variety.

 

And, the great thing is that you save your seeds from year to year!

 

Happy gardening!

 

ETA, if you're low on space, look into vertical gardening.

[justamouse]

Love the Square-Foot Gardening book, but I also love Lasagna Gardening. :001_smile:

 

 

:iagree::iagree:

 

also, if you want to increase production, look into terra preta. I believe there is a physicists in....the Netherlands? who built a small terra preta oven and has an online tutorial. Very simple and it could change the world.

[gardening momma]

A salad type garden, because we eat a LOT of salad foods. Grape and whole tomatoes, cucumber, romaine and iceberg lettuce, a couple herbs would be nice too. Maybe some sweet dill.

Tomatoes & cucumber are warm weather plants. Lettuces are cool weather plants. Spring and fall are best for them. I haven't grown herbs.

 

I would also like to plant a couple fruit bushes, blueberry?

I have one blueberry bush, but it's taking its time. I've had it for 2-3 years and it's still very small. I think I planted it too low. I believe they do better if the ground is mounded up a bit.

 

On the other hand, I planted raspberries a few years ago. When I got them, they were practically 1 foot sticks. After the first year, it seemed that 5 of them died. Then after some time, they all came back. Now they're thriving and I divide them each year and lengthen the raspberry bed.

 

Some squash, carrots, onions, garlic

 

Maybe some pumpkin and watermelon or cantaloupe.

Squash, pumpkin, watermelon & cantalope (and zucchini) are all part of the cucurbit family. They take a lot of space, especially the vining types. I'm not sure, but I think yellow summer squash and zucchini are (always??) bush-type plants, so they'll spread out a bit, but not all over the yard like pumpkin would. I've successfully grown yellow squash, zucchini and spaghetti squash. But then in following years they got powdery mildew, and that's hard to beat. It kills the plant and the spores can live in the ground over the winter and infect next year's plants. My plants have had powdery mildew for the past 2 years, so I'm not going to grow any more cucurbits for a while.

 

Keeping in mind it isn't worth it unless we get enough yield of that plant to feed us all? So I'd rather plant enough tomato for us all, than a bunch of plants that don't produce enough of anything for us all.

In your first attempts, you might not get enough to feed you all for a whole year, but the learning experience would be worth it. I would definitely plan on tomatoes to start with. As far as expense, I'd first go for raised beds without borders. If I can find the thread, I'll post it here.

 

Also, I've heard that tomatoes grow even better in containers. I don't know if anyone here can add any input but I've had them grow BEAUTIFULLY in an old whisky barrel half. They did do better in that than they did in the ground.

I have never seen tomatoes do well in a container (not to say they can't do well). If you do use a container, you want to make sure it's large enough that it doesn't constrict the roots. The more space the roots have, the better. When you plant a tomato plant (if you buy a plant rather than seeds), you want to strip the leaves off the lower 50%. You can strip up to 75% of it. Then replant it with the stripped stem buried in the ground. An easy way to do this so that you don't have to dig a deep hole is to make a trench just a few inches deep, lay the plant in it, and cover the stem with the soil. The remaining plant will grow upright. Any part of the buried stem will grow roots, making the plant healthier and stronger.

Edited January 14, 2011 by gardening momma

[Robin's Song]

I won't mention Square Foot Gardening :D

 

Seriously, check Prudent Homemaker's gardening page. She has serveral helpful links. Her garden is droolworthy!

 

ETA: Her yard is a quarter of acre in Vegas! She also has a crew of little ones so her suggestions aren't over the top.

[justamouse]

I won't mention Square Foot Gardening :D

 

Seriously' date=' check Prudent Homemaker's gardening page. She has serveral helpful links. Her garden is droolworthy!

 

ETA: Her yard is a quarter of acre in Vegas! She also has a crew of little ones so her suggestions aren't over the top.

 

Her garden IS gorgeous! Now that I live in town that is the style I'll have to have. Thanks for the inspiration!

[NCMom]

This year I would like:

A salad type garden, because we eat a LOT of salad foods. Grape and whole tomatoes, cucumber, romaine and iceberg lettuce, a couple herbs would be nice too. Maybe some sweet dill.

 

Tomatoes yes. Go with determinate varieties for the most part, as you will not have a lot of room. If you want to do more heirlooms types, try trellising or a Florida weave. Cukes - go with a small variety. I'll go look and see what we use and post more later. Romaine is harder to grow compared to leaf lettuce, so as a newbie I would stick with leaf types. Very, very yummy! Iceburg is pointless since it is cheap at the store and nutritionally worthless, comparatively speaking. Jmho, of course.;)

 

I would also like to plant a couple fruit bushes, blueberry?

Some squash, carrots, onions, garlic

Maybe some pumpkin and watermelon or cantaloupe.

Squash - again, go with a variety meant for smaller spaces. Carrots, plant early but if you have rocky soil, don't expect too much til you get the kinks worked out. Onions - yes, easy and I interplant leaf lettuce to save space. Garlic - we plant in the fall and it always does well. Berry bushes like different things, check into the needs of what you want before buying. There are melons for small spaces also. Pumpkins are not really probably the best use of your space.

 

I have sweet potato out there somewhere that was planted for a science experiment. LOL. I don't know if it woukd make it from last April through the winter tho.

Sweeties take a long time and a fair amount of room. I always get a great yield on them though. I plant from slips and they are not cheap. This year I was smart and saved some to do my own with. I really am not sure these would be profitable in a small garden unless you companion planted in that area.

 

Oh and some corn and peas.

Peas and beans should be very easy and should probably be your main crop along with greens and cucurbits for this first year. I use Masai beans as our main crop and get a tremendous yield. (But we plant at least 4 other types, too.) Corn is pointless in a small garden, plus you should be able to get it cheaply if you are at all rural. We have a huge garden and don't ever get good results with corn, so I may be biased, lol.

 

We would love strawberries, but I cannot seem to ever get them to thrive. Well not true ONE year I did, but the wild beasts and birds were always faster than us.

Strawberries are easy, we put noisy/shiny things out in the spring and have no trouble with birds. Now slugs are a different story...:glare:

 

You need to try and prep your areas the minute it gets dry enough in the Spring. You need to read and research and decide what "method" you want to go with and get seed catalogs and decide what plants and varieties you want to try, now. I'll order seeds in the next week or two.

 

Right now you can decide where you want to plant and start some method of composting (whether in a composter or lasagna style on-site).

 

I gotta go get a kid, but I will post more later.

 

hth!

Georgia

[angela in ohio]

Square Foot Gardening

 

I hate to work in the garden, and I was able to manage our SFG almost by myself last year. We had 16 3'x3' squares, and this year we are moving it up to 30. It was inexpensive, too, as we just used straw to keep the paths between the beds clear, and we had decent soil to begin with (we live in farm country.) We bought a bit of fertilizer and some vermiculite to mix in, and we were on our way. :001_smile: You can just use the concepts of spacing plants without all the complicated box building and soil mixing. :D It still makes gardening easier and increases your yield.

 

This is what we grow:

 

tomatoes (cherry to eat and regular to make tomato sauce to freeze)

green beans (enough to freeze/can)

carrots (enough to freeze/can)

zucchini (I grate it and freeze it for muffins)

peas (I freeze what I can get to before the dc eat them raw :001_smile:)

onions (I chop them and freeze them, then use them to cook all year long)

cucumbers (dh eats these)

 

I prefer large amounts of what I know grows well and I know we eat, rather than a lot of small amounts of different produce.

 

We also have apple trees, and this year we're putting in a berry patch (blueberries, strawberries, and raspberries) and herb garden.

 

We are trying broccoli, spaghetti squash, and garlic for the first time this year and not doing pumpkins anymore. I can get pie pumpkins 3/$1 at a local farm. We can also get potatoes cheap, or I'd probably try those, as they store well. We've given up on brussel sprouts, as they never seem to do well.

[myfunnybunch]

Square foot gardening is great.

 

Start semi-small. If you need low maintenance at this point, and you try to start a large garden all at once, you may get so overwhelmed that you decide it's not worth it.

 

If you're looking ahead to your dh building you a cold frame, start with veggies you'd grow in a cold frame, like greens.

 

Easy starters:

 

• Greens (spinach, lettuce, chard, kale). You harvest from the time the leaves are young, and if you stagger planting times, you can have fresh greens from March-November.
  
• Carrots. Dig a deep bed for them, plant and leave them alone. :) I LOVE growing carrots.
  
• Squash/sugar pumpkins make good landscape plants. You can train the vines to grow along a fence in the yard (either along the ground next to the fence, or vining up the fence a little) and they will weave in and out of your landscaping.
  
• Tomatoes just because there's really nothing like the satisfaction you get from a home-grown tomato! And they are pretty easy to grow.
  
• Onions and leeks! Easy, easy, easy. Well, except for the part where you buy a starter pack and feel like you're planting thousands of tiny threads in the ground. But fresh onions are AMAZING, and it is so easy to just run out to the garden, grab an onion or two and chop them up for dinner. Delicious! Leeks are a good cold-weather crop, so you can essentially have fresh onions all year unless it's very cold where you live.
  
• I plant green pole beans and lemon cucumbers at the same trellis. They both grow very easily, they don't take a lot of ground space, and the yellow cucumbers are easy to spot among the green leaves.
  
• Herbs in decorative pots on the porch are easy to tend and decorative, and you don't have to trek clear out to the garden on a rainy day when you want herbs for soup. (Because it's SO far, you know.)
  

 

 

Things I would skip the first year:

Potatoes. Unless you've got a lot of space, potatoes aren't really worth it. Here, at least, they are so cheap that I'd rather use my precious garden space for other veg. If you eat a lot of potatoes, I'd recommend looking for a farm that sells storage crops, buying them in bulk and storing them in the garage or basement.

Broccoli. My personal prejudice. I cannot grow broccoli, lol.

 

Berries take a couple years to start producing, but totally worth it. We do have strawberries, but mostly for fun. There's no way we've got space to grow enough strawberries for jam, so we save a lot of $$ picking them ourselves then storing them and making jam. If your dh can make a cold frame, maybe he can put together a bird screen, one with mesh that will let the sun in but keep birds out. But raspberries are easy, and blueberries...we're planting more, and I am hoping in a few years we will start getting enough that we can get enough, or nearly enough, to freeze for the year. :)

 

Be creative! I am finding that more and more of our yard is getting little garden spaces tucked away. Our former flower bed is now a strawberry-squash-pea bed. I trained scarlet runner beans and cucumbers along my front fence. I plan to start a little pot herb garden along my front walk. And we're planting fruit trees in the side yard.

 

Have fun! I hope you will post about your garden adventures!

 

Cat

[myfunnybunch]

peas (I freeze what I can get to before the dc eat them raw :001_smile:)

 

LOL, me too. The kids always manage to get to the peas before I do.

 

Cat

[gardening momma]

If you grow tomatoes: Sweet 100's (a grape tomato) grow easily but crack easily too. They are known for this. I've grown them for 2-3 years and they always crack. From what I've read, it happens if they get too little or too much water. :glare: When I pick them, I pick the cracked ones but toss them back into the garden bed. The next year I get volunteer tomato plants. The ones that are not cracked will sometimes crack once I get them into the house.

 

If you've ever seen rabbits in your yard, you may want to get some blood meal. It is horribly stinky and will keep the rabbits away from your plants while adding nutrients to your soil. Just sprinkle it around the plants.

[gardening momma]

If you're interested in raised beds, you might first try raised beds without borders. I think I read about that here on the WTM forum. I think I'll do that at my next house to save money.

I think it was MomsintheGarden. Here are some pictures of her garden (scroll down a bit to her post).

[Murphy101]

Her garden IS gorgeous! Now that I live in town that is the style I'll have to have. Thanks for the inspiration!

 

:iagree:Oh that looks like my dh's granny's down in TX. The one she paid a professional to put in and maintain. Sigh.

 

Maybe I could start with just one patch and expand from there.... I bet it took her a long time before it looked like that.

[angela in ohio]

If you need a little help getting started, too, Mother Earth News has a free 30 day trial of their garden planning software on their site. It is a handy way to save having to figure out all the planting dates yourself. :001_smile:

[Murphy101]

Okay...

 

I can't have anything growing on our fence. We need a new fence, so I don't want to encourage it to fall over by weighing it down.:glare:

 

 

(ETA: I think I would like two raised beds of 4x2 plants, for a total of 16 plants. The melons I can just make mounds for around the yard? )

 

I'm thinking I would like to start this spring with about 6 bushes of grape tomatoes (thanks for the warning about sweet 100!). We EASILY go through 2 pints in one meal. Not to mention all the hand grabbing munchies.

 

4 bushes of a good canning tomato - Roma? Beef steak? (We tend to either eat grape tomatoes as is or need canned tomatoes. Only once in a great while do we cut a tomato up)

 

2 bushes of cucumber. (2 large cucumbers = one meal)

 

Some kind of melon for the fun factor.

 

One yellow summer squash for frying up when in the mood.

 

I like the darker leafy lettuce, but the only way I can get my family to eat it is if it is mixed with iceberg. Um stupid question. If lettuce and tomato are grown at different times - do you folks never eat chef salads?

 

I'll worry about cooler start up after I get the summer crop is in the ground?

 

So... Opinions?

Edited January 14, 2011 by Martha

[Jean in Wisc]

If you want small gardens that need little work, Square Foot Gardening is wonderful. But getting them started costs a lot if you have to buy all the dirt and wood and all.

 

My favorite is Rodales:

http://www.amazon.com/Rodales-Ultimate-Encyclopedia-Organic-Gardening/dp/1594869170/

 

It gives you all you need to know and then some. Another way to get started is to find someone who already gardens and ask a lot of questions. That will keep you from doing nutty things like starting lettuce indoors when you start your tomatoes. (Yes, someone I know did it.)

 

The 1st year, I'd suggest you buy the small plants rather than starting tomatoes and other plants indoors from seed. They cost a little more, but they have already made it through the sprouting stage. Another year you can give the seeds a try...at least that is what I'd do to make sure you had a good experience your first year.

 

And then you can get a calf and a few turkeys and chickens...

 

:) Jean (The farmer's wife)

[Murphy101]

Another dumb question.

 

I have a large area under some trees where the grass doesn't grow be use it is entirely shaded. Are there any good plants you might suggests for there?

[Murphy101]

I plan to container plant herbs around the koi pond or shove among the irises in the front patio border.

[Vida Winter]

We have started gardening and it has been a ton of work, mainly due to:

 

1. high altitude - cold, lack of sunlight, etc.

2. deer -- they will do almost anything!

3. poor soil - filled with rocks, hard packed

 

You need to take a step back and determine what your big problems are going to be (I hope you have none like ours!). Each region will have its own particular problems, if not the ones we have, then bugs for instance.

 

We had to get a greenhouse, bring in topsoil, started composting, and put deer fencing around the outside beds. All this did was provide the infrastructure for the actual gardening, which has been only marginally successful so far. But, with the greenhouse, we hope to have a much better year.

 

Things that you might try are free gardening podcasts, your library, and your local extension office. The extension office can give you a ton of good info specific to your area. They may also be able to analyze your soil to see what needs to be added for the best chance of success.

[CalicoKat]

So I'm gearing up for taxes and for the fun of it, decided to go through receipts.

 

I will never say what we spent on groceries total.

 

But it ain't good when the cost of milk alone is $1100

And produce alone, keeping in mind we wont buy it unless it looks good, which usually means seasonal, is....

 

..... Gulp

 

... $3200!!!!!!

 

Holy carp!

 

We need a garden! A big high yield, but low maintenance bc I have zero desire to live in the yard during the end of a pregnancy or with a newborn in June.

 

So where can I find the best information on how to do this right, bc I can't afford to waste money screwing it up AND then still buying produce. I live in a housing division, the backyard is mostly level with patches of shade from trees and full sunlight. Dh does not have time to help and honestly, I am herding 9.5 kids, so please - don't make it complicated!

 

Dh says if we (that's a royal we. He obviously means ME) can get a good garden going this year, then he would be willing to invest in one of those small greenhouses to extend our growing into the cold seasons. Ohhh. I am motivated now. Summer sweet tomatoes from my own garden in DECEMBER?! Oh yeah. I am all over that idea!!!

 

Anyone care to offer suggestions and tips? Links? Books?

 

Thanks!

 

Is that 3200 for the year or month? :D If it's for the year then I'd be happy with the total.

[Murphy101]

Is that 3200 for the year or month? :D If it's for the year then I'd be happy with the total.

 

The year. And nope I am not happy with it given that it is rare we can afford to buy fresh produce at all. onions, potatos, apples and bananas for the most part. Only occassionaly do we splurge for a chef salad fixing assortment.

[Jean in Wisc]

Another dumb question.

 

I have a large area under some trees where the grass doesn't grow be use it is entirely shaded. Are there any good plants you might suggests for there?

 

You can plant grass for shade. Hostas like shade. Ferns, too. I'm sure there are a lot of other plants that I've not mentioned. I know more about vegetable gardening than flowers and shrubs. Maybe others will chime in.

 

:) Jean

[Murphy101]

You can plant grass for shade. Hostas like shade. Ferns, too. I'm sure there are a lot of other plants that I've not mentioned. I know more about vegetable gardening than flowers and shrubs. Maybe others will chime in.

 

:) Jean

 

Not wasting money buying grass.:)

If I can't use it in my dinner, I'm not buying it.

[ChrisB]

Last year was my first year for square foot gardening. Some things did really well, but due to heavy rains in July, some things obviously didn't. I have a 6x3 and a 4x4. The 6x3 has a trellis, ala square foot gardening style, and it worked very well for my cukes, tomatoes and cherry tomatoes. I specifically bought a indeterminate style tomato for the vining and to save on space. My cherry toms turned out great! They were Gardener's Delight. When planting, I had a few regular tomato plants left over, so I planted them Not in the beds and they just didn't do as well. I'm convinced the SFG soil mix is pretty good. (psst...I had very little weeds :thumbup1:) If you do decide to go SFG, and you are trying to find vermiculite, my local Menards sells huge bags of it in the insulation section for cheap. I called the manufacturer and it is the exact same stuff that they sell in gardening centers.

[gardening momma]

More tomato info:

 

Determinate--it only grows up to a certain size/height/length. It's a "bush" tomato.

 

Indeterminate--it will keep growing, often will have vines 6 feet long or longer. I have read (but haven't tried) that you can snip off the ends of an indeterminate vine to the length you want, and that you can keep doing this throughout the growing season as long as it's needed. The Sweet 100 tomatoes I grew were indeterminate but I never tried cutting them off. I just kept draping them back over themselves--I did use tomato cages, so that helped up to a point.

 

If you grow too much tomatoes too close to each other (think draped over each other), you could have lots of green tomatoes that never ripen. I had this last year. Plus it was hard to get to the ones that were ripe. I have 4'x8' raised beds. Normally reaching into the middle is not a problem, but it is when it's also 3 feet high in thick tomato vines. If there had been more space in between, it would have been ok. Or if I had taller supports (5 feet or more would have been better in my case).

[treestarfae]

I think gardening is healthy and smart. No pesticides and overpricing. Have you checked local farms for renting out plots too? Farm coop is good for produce http://www.localharvest.org/ What veggis do you use the most? I would start there.

[Sun]

.

Edited January 15, 2011 by Sun

[Tullia]

The lady who cuts my hair gave me this tip that her dh swears by; it worked for us, too. His theory is that too many leaves keep the sun off the fruit. His method is very simple; once the plants reach about 24" prune out the stalks that don't produce blooms. Last summer I had very full plants with lots of fruit that wasn't ripening. Within a week of pruning the non-fruiting branches, the tomatoes started ripening. I was cautious and only tried this on half the plants at first, but eventually pruned all of them. [The unpruned plants' fruit was still green after the others started ripening, so I don't think it was a fluke.] I'll start earlier next year--my plants were about 5' tall when I heard about this. We live at a high altitude with cool nights and a short growing season, so it's important to maximize the sunshine. I was afraid of cutting off too many leaves, so as the plant grew I cut off younger non-fruiting branches only after the other branches closest to them started to set fruit. Old timers have told us that in climates where tomatoes grow very well, people used to beat down indeterminate vines with a knotted rope to keep them producing heavily. I don' think I could bring myself to do that.

 

Also, I don't know if I still have the information, but many years ago someone gave me instructions for growing potatoes in plastic trash barrels with holes cut in the side and filled with potting soil.

Edited January 15, 2011 by Martha in NM
add info.

[MSNative]

Not wasting money buying grass.:)

If I can't use it in my dinner, I'm not buying it.

 

Lots of herbs will grow in some shade - think hardy ones: verbena, chives, oregano. You could also use that area to plant spring crops since they should be done by the time the trees leaf out - spinach, lettuce, etc. We put blueberries in a deciduous shade spot and they do great.

 

Melons in the yard? Be careful. Our melons and pumpkin took over our garden and yard. If you want to be able to mow or play on the yard, I'd keep them off to one side as much as possible.

 

Love the Prudent Homemaker site. Thanks for sharing the link.

[gardening momma]

Melons in the yard? Be careful. Our melons and pumpkin took over our garden and yard. If you want to be able to mow or play on the yard, I'd keep them off to one side as much as possible.

I have successfully grown mini pumpkins from the previous years' mini pumpkins (left them on the front steps, neglected them, then shoveled them off into the mulch). They grew on their own for 2 years (as long as you let one or more rot in the dirt again). They did spread quite a bit, but if you keep moving the vines to where you want them to go, it's not bad. You can really only move the last few inches of the vine, as it starts to wrap tendrils around the grass right away. The third year I put the leftover mini pumpkins in my raised bed and built a couple of 5-foot tall trellises (attached perpendicularly to each other, in a T shape) with bamboo from the store. That worked ok, but the parts of the trellis that was in the soil rotted before the pumpkins were done growing. That was also the year all my cucurbits had powdery mildew (last summer), so the mini pumpkins didn't survive. Next time I'll try a stronger trellis material, something I can use for more than one year.

 

ETA: you can grow larger pumpkins on a trellis, but you will definitely need a stronger trellis, and you'll need to have support for each pumpkin, like a sling made from cloth--probably something that would drain/dry quickly like nylon/pantyhose.

Edited January 15, 2011 by gardening momma

[nd293]

Square foot gardening is a winner for yield for the area and ease of use. If water is an issue where you are, look into wicking beds. I set up a raised, square foot, wicking bed which seems to be working, apart from the fact that I set it up just as summer hit, and summer in Perth is not pretty. From my very limited experience I think you might have to look at your first year as an experiment - I planted rocket, spinach, lettuce and chard/silverbeet, for instance, and only the chard has done really well. I like young chard as a salad leaf, so lext year I will plant a lot more of the stuff, and skip the lettuce and spinach altogether as summer salad crops. The rocket is kind of surviving, so worth another try.

[Carol in Cal.]

In shade:

arugula

broccoli

lettuce (start it elsewhere)

spinach

green beans (start them elsewhere)

peas