How many men struggle with pornography?

[6packofun]

... and 10% lie about it. How offensive is that?!?

 

I think sometimes we seek to make our sin acceptable by saying that everyone is doing it... sort of justification through percieved peer pressure (or some such nonsense). It really bothers me that Christians assume these things about each other.

 

 

I TOTALLY AGREE. Our boys/young men are taught all the time (and by the church, no less) that they WILL be tempted and this WILL be an issue in their lives so we need to tackle it early, we need to have a study on it and accountability partners and blah blah blah. I mean, could we talk about porn any more???

 

I was so annoyed that our boys' youth group went over Every Young Man's Battle (because it's every single young man's battle, don'tcha know...urgh) and included boys as young as 12. It's not even on the radar of many 12yo boys I know, and I'm not keeping my head in the sand on this issue, either. How many times are boys *introduced* to this acceptable temptation?? Ticks me off. lol

 

We should be teaching our boys and young men principles of integrity and purity at home and creating an atmosphere where they can talk to their parents or other trusted adults IF it becomes an issue in their lives. And I say this as the mother of a teen son who did fall into temptation and asked us to help him with it. I'm so very grateful he knew he could come to us, even though I was very sad and disappointed. We felt we taught him well and he still fell, so education wasn't "power" to him, necessarily. Of course, each child is different, particularly according to what they've been exposed to, but sometimes I think there is so much exposure to the potential sin in our efforts to prevent it that it makes the temptation greater.

[lionfamily1999]

I TOTALLY AGREE. Our boys/young men are taught all the time (and by the church, no less) that they WILL be tempted and this WILL be an issue in their lives so we need to tackle it early, we need to have a study on it and accountability partners and blah blah blah. I mean, could we talk about porn any more???

 

I was so annoyed that our boys' youth group went over Every Young Man's Battle (because it's every single young man's battle, don'tcha know...urgh) and included boys as young as 12. It's not even on the radar of many 12yo boys I know, and I'm not keeping my head in the sand on this issue, either. How many times are boys *introduced* to this acceptable temptation?? Ticks me off. lol

 

We should be teaching our boys and young men principles of integrity and purity at home and creating an atmosphere where they can talk to their parents or other trusted adults IF it becomes an issue in their lives. And I say this as the mother of a teen son who did fall into temptation and asked us to help him with it. I'm so very grateful he knew he could come to us, even though I was very sad and disappointed. We felt we taught him well and he still fell, so education wasn't "power" to him, necessarily. Of course, each child is different, particularly according to what they've been exposed to, but sometimes I think there is so much exposure to the potential sin in our efforts to prevent it that it makes the temptation greater.

I totally agree with the bolded.

 

I'm so grateful that I have not run into this in our church, I've seen it in past churches and plenty in traveling ministers :glare:

 

What kills me is................... Isn't this the EXACT issue we have when ps start teaching sex ed earlier and earlier?!? I don't want to have to protect my children from their TEACHERS at CHURCH.

[ChiMomNP]

I have keyloggers on all the computers in the house and my DH's work laptop. Since his affairs came to light there is no privacy here. The best disinfectant is sunlight and transparency and I demand both from him now. Having said that I never see porn, he says watching it doesn't do it for him, he is a "hands-on" kind of guy :blink::blink: As we know all to well now. I feel for the spouses of sex addicts who find their release in porn. It is an awful path to go down and the rate of relapse is so high. The "struggle" is every day for the rest of their lives, just like any other addiction. Just so sad.

[OregonNative]

I've wondered how widespread it really is as well. I only know one woman in real life who's dealing with this, and her experience was that there was no filter that would really work. Her husband would find a way, and she eventually had to leave him.

 

I have a hard time believing that 90% figure, though, since none of my good friends have ever dealt with this.

 

Maybe your friends just don't know about it:confused:

[nono]

I once looked at our internet history and I had a billion homeschooling, couponing, getting out of debt, and kid sites.....while his was all porn. Right there is when it really came to light. I spend all my time and energy on this family and these kids and he spends his time on that carp. And I told him that he is no Patrick Dempsey but I have no desire to look at any other person on earth with no clothes on, and if I wanted to I wouldnt have time :glare:

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Who cares what the stats are for the rest of humanity? Your man is very one dimensional, and that's sad! (I love your Patrick Dempsey comment, btw, and oh boo hoo if it hurt him, you sure had to suck up a whole lot of reality with the all porn history of his viewing!)

 

He needs a hobby. One that doesn't include a mouse and a monitor. :glare: He's lucky he is married to someone as nice as you.

[Joanne]

I agree. The women were just as much to blame.

 

I disagree. But that's another thread.

[OregonNative]

I dated a youth pastor in the late 90's who I later learned was addicted to porn. I had suspicions, but nothing to confirm it. Once I was at his apartment waiting for him to return for a church meeting and thought I would watch a movie. I put a tape in the VCR and it was a porno! Yes, I went snooping:tongue_smilie: If found a ton of raunchy magazines in the storage closet off his deck. He ended up getting fired from the church because when a member was doing computer maintenance, they found he had been surfing XXX sites at work!!! I was devastated, not only about the porn, but being so naive I figured I'd never run into that with a Christian:glare::blush: I ended up going to counseling and found out that porn is extremely common among men of the faith. I also learned that when the women went on the yearly church getaway, their husbands, who were Elders went to strip clubs!

 

It would not surprise me that 90% of men have issues with porn. I'm sure a good percentage of wives don't even know about it.

 

I am fortunate that my DH has no interest in any thing like this. He gets hot and bothered over cars:lol: My heart goes out to women that deal with this. From a Christian view, I firmly believe this is adultery and grounds for divorce.

[3littlekeets]

I have keyloggers on all the computers in the house and my DH's work laptop. Since his affairs came to light there is no privacy here. The best disinfectant is sunlight and transparency and I demand both from him now. Having said that I never see porn, he says watching it doesn't do it for him, he is a "hands-on" kind of guy :blink::blink: As we know all to well now. I feel for the spouses of sex addicts who find their release in porn. It is an awful path to go down and the rate of relapse is so high. The "struggle" is every day for the rest of their lives, just like any other addiction. Just so sad.

 

Yikes...I couldn't live as a detective with no trust for my DH. I don't think he could either. If we couldn't rebuild, I'd walk.

[3littlekeets]

Struggle? No. We enjoy it. :lol:

 

:lol::lol::lol:

[OregonNative]

Define pornography. Dh has seen movies, Victoria secret catalogs and other visual images that I would call pornographic. It doesn't titillate him. For some men it does attract them and call for more graphic viewing and sexual response. I've read romance novels and other books that are soft porn. They do tempt me in some ways. I choose not to read them and will immediately close a book that I realize has that content or will turn off the t.v. etc. if there is that kind of content. I do not choose to respond to visual or mental stimulation. Temptation itself is not sin. Choosing to indulge in it or respond to it, is.

Victoria secret catalogs-I totally agree with this! It's amazing what is considered acceptable these days. During the Macy's parade this year on TV, you could see a huge billboard ad for VS with a model who was barely covered. My kids were watching this of course!!

[kamom]

If this will encourage you that there are upright men out there, I come from a family with six brothers, only the youngest has had a problem with it. Yes, I do think it is a problem.

 

My dh comes from a family with four brothers, he has a good relationship with them all and they are all free from that junk. They talk about it among themselves to keep accountable. Nobody wants to destroy their homes and marriages. His dad is a pastor and also does not look at it or struggle with it.

 

I get so upset with all the marriages being destroyed by that garbage!

 

Sorry, no tolerance here! No apoligies either.

[Chelle in MO]

But it's not always the case that someone seeks it out. I've also opened web pages, including a religious homeschooling website's blog, and inadvertently seen pornographic images.

 

Oh, my gosh! Something very similar happened to me and I just about lost it! I was looking for 1950s clothing ideas for my then 12 yo who was going to a birthday theme party. He was sitting by me and I clicked on a perfectly innocent title and saw a graphic image! I was furious!

 

I know of someone it happened to when they were looking for images of something related to Star Wars. Crazy. :glare:

[ChiMomNP]

Yikes...I couldn't live as a detective with no trust for my DH. I don't think he could either. If we couldn't rebuild, I'd walk.

 

Rebuilding and reconciling doesn't mean that one just blindly gives trust again. Transparency is the key to rebuilding, it is the only way I will -ever- come to trust him again. He understands this and knew it was a condition of my even being willing to try. He is a repeat offender x3 so he doesn't get much leeway with me.

Edited December 1, 2010 by ChiMomNP

[Margo out of lurking]

I mean, the statistic is that 40% of American women have had an abortion. Well, think about all your girlfirends; statistically speaking, 4 out of 10 of them have had an abortion. But do you actually *know* any close friends that have? It's not really something that's easy to discuss, even in today's society.

 

Yes, if I think about my girlfriends going back to high school (and we're talking late 70s/early 80s here), the figure is at least 80%. I was only one of two that I can recall, and there's no reason I shouldn't have been in that group.

 

That has no correlation to a claim that 90% of men "struggle" with porn though.

[justamouse]

I do know some men who struggle, some couples who enjoy it together, some women who love it and a few men whose radar it's not even on. I don't think filtering it is a good thing. They'll look if they want to regardless and I would rather no one sneak if that's what they wanted to do. Sneaking only makes it worse.

[JadeOrchidSong]

:bigear:

Changed my question to "How many men view porn regularly and think it is normal and nothing wrong with it?"

[kwickimom]

:bigear:

Changed my question to "How many men view porn regularly and think it is normal and nothing wrong with it?"

 

 

Very good wording here.

[kbpaulie]

ETA I fully believe the 90% and I think it is higher. I know many many married men who swtill look at it and think nothing is wrong with it

 

I agree with this. NEVER, NEVER, NEVER would have thought my husband had an issue until I just plain out asked him one day. SHOCKED and disappointed to find he'd been looking. Thankfully he confessed and is changing.

[annandatje]

nm

Edited December 1, 2010 by annandatje

[Audrey]

Well, I don't know how many men look at it, but I'm willing to bet the farm (if I actually had a farm) that 90% of them aren't "struggling" with it. Some men may believe it's wrong, but I'm sure that a large percentage don't see any problem with it. I would think that a relatively small percentage of men are actually what would be considered "addicted" to it, rather than just looking at it for entertainment purposes.

 

Cat

:iagree: There's a big difference between looking at porn and "struggling" with it. To me, the idea of "struggling with porn" would mean that you have an addiction to it.

[Greta]

I've wondered how widespread it really is as well. I only know one woman in real life who's dealing with this, and her experience was that there was no filter that would really work. Her husband would find a way, and she eventually had to leave him.

 

I am curious (though you may not know or wish to share, and that's understandable) if your friend left him simply because he refused to stop, or if it was interfering with their marriage as in he had lost interest in her and would rather have the porn? I guess I am just wondering at what point most women would consider this to be cause for divorce. Obviously there is no one answer, but the question has been on my mind since I read this thread.

 

My heart goes out to those of you who are struggling and hurting because of this.

[Marylou]

www.troubledwith.com

[lisabelle]

I don't think the dh does. I don't think he has time. We have a common use computer room and the only time he ever gets a chance to be alone in it is in the early morning for the 15 min.-1/2 hour before I get up. And he's eating his cereal and fighting off the cats who want to stick their faces in his bowl, which I don't think is too conducive to optimal porn-viewing.

Having grown up with 3 brothers, I suppose I wouldn't be horribly *shocked* to find out the dh was getting in some porn time. But I'd be disappointed. He's very courteous and generous at tea time, in a way that makes me feel like it's more than a physical act to him--that there's more to it for him than mechanics and body parts.

[katemary63]

Porn is not only a degredation of women (wether they know it or not) but a degredation of humankind. We are not animals. (No, we're not.)

 

Though I disagree with it on many levels, my biggest problem with porn is the young women who are hurt in the industry. Many vulnerable lives are destroyed. My heart goes out to them. What a wrong it is to take part in that.

 

Many years ago there was a group of pro-athlete who put together a national compaign with the slogan, "Real men don't use porn." I agree. And real women don't either. (at least and not feel true guilt about it.)

 

I know for a fact my husband viewed porn as a young man in his early 20s. He worked at a video store that rented it. I also know for a fact he now finds it disgusting. He is a mature Christian man who honors his wife and his role as husband, but also women in general. When ever he even sees half naked women on TV he comments about how bad he feels that she doesn't know that she is worth more then that. He would never view porn on the computer. He doesn't even like what he sees on tv.

Edited December 1, 2010 by katemary63

[Nestof3]

Dh has seen movies, Victoria secret catalogs and other visual images that I would call pornographic. It doesn't titillate him.

 

I really don't mean to be cruel, but are you serious? You know this because he says it doesn't affect him? I have never met a man who would say that a beautiful woman in lingerie doesn't turn him on. I honestly don't get this.

[nono]

I really don't mean to be cruel, but are you serious? You know this because he says it doesn't affect him? I have never met a man who would say that a beautiful woman in lingerie doesn't turn him on. I honestly don't get this.

 

We all have different experiences.

 

I don't know Jean's husband, but yeah, I know guys like this. The 2-D image doesn't "get them off." A man may see it and say, "Wow, pretty woman" or "Nice form" but really, that's it. And, some, don't react to it at all. Certainly not my understanding of "titillating."

 

Heck, I live at the shore. All sorts of women walk by on the beach all summer in 3-D. Some are really good looking and in skimpy bathing suits. Believe it or not, most men aren't sitting there having to cover up their private parts so no one notices them getting turned on. Believe me, we notice the few who do. :rolleyes:

 

I think there's a chasm of difference between someone noticing beauty and being "titillated" by it. To say anything less is to really sell men short. As if there's no difference in the lot of them, or that they all have the same, base (lowest) taste.

 

Heck, if I believed that, I'd have a hard time bothering to educate my son. Why waste my time if he's just going to turn out to be base, lacivious hound?

[Peela]

My dh is similar to Jean's, not with the Christian aspect, but he just doesnt get affected by images...but mostly.....he doesnt create them in his head. He has worked with young men with porn addiction, and from that and just being a man himself...he feels it is an issue of fantasising a lot, and peoplf dont realise you can actually stop that. Men do have a choice- not necessarily in how they naturally respond or even how they think...they get a choice when they become conscious of the fact that they themselves can feed the whole issue.

Still, for many its not such a big deal. I do know some young men though for whom it is a severe addiction that has a strong impact on their life with their partner. And I know older men like that too.

DH is not blind to women's beauty, and he appreciates it...but he says he just doesn't allow himself to feed fantasies, because they lead to suffering.

However...I do have a lot of compassion for those caught in porn...I know two men who desperately want a "real woman" on an emotional level, but who find themselves only attracted to a certain "Barbie Doll" image. They are caught.

I am not going to make a fuss though. We dont shame our son and we dont intend to start shaming him over this issue. It's not so much a moral issue to us as ....the cost is high. If you are addicted to porn, if you see women like that, you are going to have a hard time being with a real woman. They get old and they put on weight.

[lionfamily1999]

 

I really don't mean to be cruel, but are you serious? You know this because he says it doesn't affect him? I have never met a man who would say that a beautiful woman in lingerie doesn't turn him on. I honestly don't get this.

For some people there isn't any enjoyment in stealing a look. For some there's no enjoyment if the intent of the other party is not there.

[Farrar]

Well, I don't know how many men look at it, but I'm willing to bet the farm (if I actually had a farm) that 90% of them aren't "struggling" with it. Some men may believe it's wrong, but I'm sure that a large percentage don't see any problem with it. I would think that a relatively small percentage of men are actually what would be considered "addicted" to it, rather than just looking at it for entertainment purposes.

 

Cat

:iagree:

 

This whole thread is really emphasizing for me how in our culture, many men and women are sometimes on different planets in regard to sexuality. All things in moderation of course, but I have no problem with pornography.

[Denisemomof4]

:iagree:My entire family has struggled with insomnia and maybe times I've found my dh asleep in front of the computer at 2 a.m.. It's always a tech website or reading about the latest phones, dh isn't even wired that way.

 

this is my dh. I know he viewed it earlier in his life, but it was a curiosity thing and was never a problem. If dh isn't at work, he's at home, and he's with all of us or working outside. I'm certain this isn't an issue with him.

 

I find the 90% thing very hard to believe but it's not something I have the time or desire to research myself. I just want to say that having read this far, I feel very sad for the women who are hurting because their husbands are struggling with porn. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[sagira]

:iagree:

 

This whole thread is really emphasizing for me how in our culture, many men and women are sometimes on different planets in regard to sexuality. All things in moderation of course, but I have no problem with pornography.

 

During pregnancy, I tend to enjoy watching pornography. Very few times with dh. Dh and I are both very visual. No one is addicted.

 

I do feel sad too, for the women who are hurting because their husbands are addicted to porn. Porn should never be allowed to come between a man and a woman's relationship, let alone marriage.

[Denisemomof4]

Same here...did you know there's even a forum similar to this where a bunch of guys debate the finer points of cutting timber for woodburning stoves?

 

can you please PM me with this site? Dh would love it! :001_smile: We have a large house and acreage and dh cuts all our wood every year to heat our house. Forget that it saves money - I *love* a good fire keeping me TOASTY warm while the winds and snow are howling outside!

 

Sorry for the detour.

[DawnM]

I wonder where they get these statistics?

 

I am very thankful that I do not have a DH who struggles with this, he didn't even when he was not a Christian. He actually cant' stand the computer outside of work and at work he has to be very careful which sites he goes to or he could lose his job. He has even asked me not to go to many forums when using his computer because he wants the "history" to show mostly work sites. The only thing he does is browse shopping sites for car parts and Amazon during lunch hour.

 

DH would never even offer to be involved in filling out a survey to gain these statistics.....it just wouldn't be worth his time and I know him well enough that he would blow it off.....so it makes me wonder if more are like he is and wouldn't fill it out and the ones who struggle more WOULD fill it out??????

 

Dawn

[lionfamily1999]

I wonder where they get these statistics?

 

I am very thankful that I do not have a DH who struggles with this, he didn't even when he was not a Christian. He actually cant' stand the computer outside of work and at work he has to be very careful which sites he goes to or he could lose his job. He has even asked me not to go to many forums when using his computer because he wants the "history" to show mostly work sites. The only thing he does is browse shopping sites for car parts and Amazon during lunch hour.

 

DH would never even offer to be involved in filling out a survey to gain these statistics.....it just wouldn't be worth his time and I know him well enough that he would blow it off.....so it makes me wonder if more are like he is and wouldn't fill it out and the ones who struggle more WOULD fill it out??????

 

Dawn

That's my problem with statistics in general. They assume that 1. They have a good sampling, 2. Everyone is going to be honest, 3. That everyone would want to participate for all the best reasons. That, imo, is not reasonable.

[Denisemomof4]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: Who cares what the stats are for the rest of humanity? Your man is very one dimensional, and that's sad! (I love your Patrick Dempsey comment, btw, and oh boo hoo if it hurt him, you sure had to suck up a whole lot of reality with the all porn history of his viewing!)

 

He needs a hobby. One that doesn't include a mouse and a monitor. :glare: He's lucky he is married to someone as nice as you.

 

:iagree:I love this. But can you tell us how you REALLY feel???:lol::lol::lol: Really, I always enjoy your input!!!

[Nestof3]

Yes, I certainly wasn't implying that all men get er*ctions and such just by looking at a woman in a catalog, but I have never met a man who wouldn't enjoy perusing a catalog of naked or half-naked beautiful women. I have never met a man who didn't find a hot body to be a turn-on. Sure, not all men will fantasize upon looking, but from my experience (talking to people, reading books, etc.) it wouldn't take long for this to happen.

 

I know a woman who insists that her 14 year old son orders the Victoria Secret catalog because he just finds the beauty striking. She doesn't think it's sex*al at all.

 

I have also known women who swear their husbands don't gawk at other women, yet I have seen them do it. Some men are very sly about the way they steal more glances. I've seen them pretend to look at something else and then follow a woman around as she walks. But once, my husband and I were talking to a married man once who turned completely around so he could keep watching a woman walking away. My husband was shocked that he was so brazen about it.

 

I can understand that some women and some couples have no problems with the viewing of porn. I am not debating that here. I am just saying I have a really hard time believing that there are men out there who don't find s*xy, naked women to be a turn-on. That's all.

 

 

We all have different experiences.

 

I don't know Jean's husband, but yeah, I know guys like this. The 2-D image doesn't "get them off." A man may see it and say, "Wow, pretty woman" or "Nice form" but really, that's it. And, some, don't react to it at all. Certainly not my understanding of "titillating."

 

Heck, I live at the shore. All sorts of women walk by on the beach all summer in 3-D. Some are really good looking and in skimpy bathing suits. Believe it or not, most men aren't sitting there having to cover up their private parts so no one notices them getting turned on. Believe me, we notice the few who do. :rolleyes:

 

I think there's a chasm of difference between someone noticing beauty and being "titillated" by it. To say anything less is to really sell men short. As if there's no difference in the lot of them, or that they all have the same, base (lowest) taste.

 

Heck, if I believed that, I'd have a hard time bothering to educate my son. Why waste my time if he's just going to turn out to be base, lacivious hound?

[Denisemomof4]

Rebuilding and reconciling doesn't mean that one just blindly gives trust again. Transparency is the key to rebuilding, it is the only way I will -ever- come to trust him again. He understands this and knew it was a condition of my even being willing to try.

 

ETA: I'm not sure what happened but my response below is to your saying that he's cheated on you THREE TIMES.

 

:eek::eek::eek::svengo::svengo::svengo:

 

Oh, Sue!!! What a HORRIBLE thing for you to experience. Please be realistic about this and remain vigilant. I hope he's is WANTING AND ABLE to change.

 

I'm so very, very sorry for you!!!!!:grouphug::grouphug:

[Nestof3]

For some people there isn't any enjoyment in stealing a look. For some there's no enjoyment if the intent of the other party is not there.

 

Okay -- again, spoken by a woman. I think perhaps it would be more accurate to set up an anon. poll at the Marriage Bed website or something.

 

And, again, I am not insisting that all men act on the fact that he has access to images. I am certainly not insisting that all men relieve themselves by using those images. I am just insisting that I have never met a man who wouldn't enjoy the images on some level.

[Starr]

A social worker friend of mine says it's the most under diagnosed addiction. And that thinking it doesn't happen just because you think they don't have time and are always busy, with you, etc isn't necessarily true.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I really don't mean to be cruel, but are you serious? You know this because he says it doesn't affect him? I have never met a man who would say that a beautiful woman in lingerie doesn't turn him on. I honestly don't get this.

 

Yes, I'm serious and so is he. He is turned on by me and only me. Does he recognize a woman's form or beauty? Sure. I recognize a man's form and handsomeness too. But we don't let our mind be turned on. God designed men and women to respond only to their husbands/wives. Things other than that are a perversion of God's plan. That doesn't mean that you have to be a Christian to follow God's plan on this. Many people who are not Christian follow God's design on different things including sex. Conversely, many people who are Christians as well as non Christians do not follow God's plan on those things. And it hurts their souls, and their partner's souls.

[lionfamily1999]

This really goes back to assuming that everyone has the same issues with the 'world' and sin as everyone else. It may seem like it, some men may claim it, but that does not make it so.

 

I can completely believe that a boy could enjoy the beauty without it being sexual. Not many men are running off to art galleries to get their happies. It is possible to appreciate the beauty of something without it becoming sexual. It is possible to have an appreciation without it becoming sexual.

 

I blame our society for perpetuating this idea that we're all mindless genitals wandering around hoping for some excitement.

Yes, I certainly wasn't implying that all men get er*ctions and such just by looking at a woman in a catalog, but I have never met a man who wouldn't enjoy perusing a catalog of naked or half-naked beautiful women. I have never met a man who didn't find a hot body to be a turn-on. Sure, not all men will fantasize upon looking, but from my experience (talking to people, reading books, etc.) it wouldn't take long for this to happen.

 

I know a woman who insists that her 14 year old son orders the Victoria Secret catalog because he just finds the beauty striking. She doesn't think it's sex*al at all.

 

I have also known women who swear their husbands don't gawk at other women, yet I have seen them do it. Some men are very sly about the way they steal more glances. I've seen them pretend to look at something else and then follow a woman around as she walks. But once, my husband and I were talking to a married man once who turned completely around so he could keep watching a woman walking away. My husband was shocked that he was so brazen about it.

 

I can understand that some women and some couples have no problems with the viewing of porn. I am not debating that here. I am just saying I have a really hard time believing that there are men out there who don't find s*xy, naked women to be a turn-on. That's all.

 

Okay -- again, spoken by a woman. I think perhaps it would be more accurate to set up an anon. poll at the Marriage Bed website or something.

 

And, again, I am not insisting that all men act on the fact that he has access to images. I am certainly not insisting that all men relieve themselves by using those images. I am just insisting that I have never met a man who wouldn't enjoy the images on some level.

[Greta]

Yes, I certainly wasn't implying that all men get er*ctions and such just by looking at a woman in a catalog, but I have never met a man who wouldn't enjoy perusing a catalog of naked or half-naked beautiful women. I have never met a man who didn't find a hot body to be a turn-on. Sure, not all men will fantasize upon looking, but from my experience (talking to people, reading books, etc.) it wouldn't take long for this to happen.

 

I know a woman who insists that her 14 year old son orders the Victoria Secret catalog because he just finds the beauty striking. She doesn't think it's sex*al at all.

 

I have also known women who swear their husbands don't gawk at other women, yet I have seen them do it. Some men are very sly about the way they steal more glances. I've seen them pretend to look at something else and then follow a woman around as she walks. But once, my husband and I were talking to a married man once who turned completely around so he could keep watching a woman walking away. My husband was shocked that he was so brazen about it.

 

I can understand that some women and some couples have no problems with the viewing of porn. I am not debating that here. I am just saying I have a really hard time believing that there are men out there who don't find s*xy, naked women to be a turn-on. That's all.

 

Other than the obvious exception of gay men, I completely agree with your assessment. It is hard-wired into the male brain to find attractive women, well, attractive! I think all men have that same basic *impulse*. Now how they respond to that impulse will obviously vary wildly. So I am definitely not saying that I agree with the informal stats about 90% of men using porn and 10% lying. I don't believe that at all.

 

But I do think that women are setting themselves up for heartache if they believe that if their husband loves them enough, he'll never so much as look at another woman. My husband loves me deeply, but I've seen that goofy grin on his face over other women. Big deal. I love him to pieces but if Daniel Craig walked by, I'd become a fumbling, blathering idiot. :lol: It doesn't mean that either one of us has committed adultery in our hearts, because we don't dwell on it, we don't invite temptation, we don't let it interfere with our intimacy and trust. But those basic instincts of attraction are there. It's just part of being human.

[Hedgehog]

Yes, I'm serious and so is he. He is turned on by me and only me. Does he recognize a woman's form or beauty? Sure. I recognize a man's form and handsomeness too. But we don't let our mind be turned on. God designed men and women to respond only to their husbands/wives.

 

I think it's absolutely wonderful that you have a husband like this, Jean - you are very blessed. However, I'm not sure that I can agree with your last sentence there. God wants us to respond only to our husbands/wives, but he designed us with instincts and responses, one category of which is s@xual. It is up to us to channel these in the right way. "We don't let our mind be turned on" does indicate to me that you could, but you are choosing not to, which takes more or less self-control, depending on how you're wired. KWIM?

 

Things other than that are a perversion of God's plan. That doesn't mean that you have to be a Christian to follow God's plan on this. Many people who are not Christian follow God's design on different things including sex. Conversely, many people who are Christians as well as non Christians do not follow God's plan on those things. And it hurts their souls, and their partner's souls.

 

:iagree: absolutely; my personal view is that a deviation of God's teaching on the matter is perversion.. it's a strong word, but I agree with you. I also agree that such deviation will hurt people; God's teachings always have reasons, and disobedience always has consequences.

 

(:leaving: and hoping to escape the tomatoes!! It's JMO, folks!)

[elegantlion]

We all have different experiences.

 

I don't know Jean's husband, but yeah, I know guys like this. The 2-D image doesn't "get them off." A man may see it and say, "Wow, pretty woman" or "Nice form" but really, that's it. And, some, don't react to it at all. Certainly not my understanding of "titillating."

 

 

I think there's a chasm of difference between someone noticing beauty and being "titillated" by it. To say anything less is to really sell men short. As if there's no difference in the lot of them, or that they all have the same, base (lowest) taste.

 

Heck, if I believed that, I'd have a hard time bothering to educate my son. Why waste my time if he's just going to turn out to be base, lacivious hound?

 

:iagree:especially with the bolded part. I also think men, and women for that matter, can appreciate the form of a woman from an artistic sense and see it as a thing of beauty without turning it into something s*xual.

 

IMO part of the issue (not talking about porn but women, catalogs) is that we tend to assume the leap is being from appreciating a thing of beauty to wanting to bed it down immediately. We teach our children how to appreciate nature, how to appreciate art (even some with nudity), but then we tell our boys that you can't look at a female in a bikini because you can't control yourself from lust. Agree that is selling them short.

 

As a christian I believe God made us and I believe he made us to appreciate each other. Appreciation does not automatically mean lust.

[Scarlett]

I think 90% is too high. I know gritty details about plenty of marriages, and do not personally know of any marriages struggling with this issue. (I think I would likely know in many cases.)

 

In my world, which is very conservative, I think 90% is too high of a figure.

 

 

I think 90% of men, or more, look at it at some time in their life, maybe even for a certain stage of life (teens? twenties?), but I believe that many/most men move beyond that by marriage age. It is trashy & crass,

 

Yes. This. To the men I've been close enough to discuss this issue....this is very true.

 

 

 

Furthermore, I believe that many/most men who would/do enjoy it are reasonably willing to (and capable of) drop it if/when it causes discord in their marriage.

Yes. Morals aside, religious views aside, if it is causing a problem in your marriage....if your wife HATES it....why would you continue to view it?

 

Personally, I think that if a man chooses it even though it pains a spouse, well, that is a problem. Possibly an addiction, but at least a marital problem.

 

 

 

That said, I think it might be wise for the wife to seriously consider how important this issue is for her. There are plenty of women who live with it just fine. They don't see it as an indictment of their own value. Some even like it! (yuck!) Can she choose to avoid dwelling on it, avoid 'blowing it out of proportion'? (Avoid reading books about how evil it is? Maybe choose to read books about how it is harmless?) Can she work around it? Ignore it? Does it have to impact their marriage? Can it be compartementalized? Was it there before she married him and she chose to accept it then, but is changing the rules now? Is that fair? Is it truly worth ending the marriage? What is the real issue? Is it about control? Is it about her own confidence? Are there things that *she* can control that might impact these areas?

 

I tried the above approach (among others) and believe me it doesn't work. My now X-husband let porn take over his life and it was a 'gateway' drug so to speak--leading to more and brazen sexual misconduct until I was forced to divorce him. It destroyed our sex life and destroyed his ability to be intimate (in sexual and non sexual ways) with me.

 

I could never feel justified saying, 'if you don't stop your porn viewing I will divorce you,' but trust me it was a long slow death. I have discussed this issue with my new husband and he knows it is a deal breaker for me. I will not tolerate it ever again. He is a Christian and feels the same way...but I've been very clear with him that I will. not. stand for it.

 

I am very concerned about my own young son being exposed to it. It is spelled out in our custody agreement, signed by the judge, that there is to be no porn in the house at any time and that he is not to have access to any computer that has ever accessed porn. In addition, without mentioning his father's issues, I've been very clear with ds10, that viewing such images is very dangerous and he must be alert to avoiding it. I realize that at some point ds will make the choice, but he at least will have information about the damage it can cause. (as well as the moral issue that it displeases God).

 

To any woman who has a husband who struggles with it, or especially those who don't struggle with it but wallow in it, totally disregarding their wives feelings....I say don't dismiss it. It would be a line in the sand if I had to do it all over again. I am not convinced I could have saved my marriage with an ultimatum, but I didn't save it anyway, and I could have saved myself years of grief.

 

To ask 'is it worth divorcing over?'....I guess everyone has to decide that....but do you know there are actually women out there who think adultery is not divorce worthy?

 

It is a slippery slope in my mind.

[Scarlett]

I have keyloggers on all the computers in the house and my DH's work laptop. Since his affairs came to light there is no privacy here. The best disinfectant is sunlight and transparency and I demand both from him now. .

 

Is this by chance a marriagebuilders approach?

[Nestof3]

Okay. We will just have to disagree on this. I am curious if this info you have comes from conversations you've had with other men or your husband -- that men have told you that a 14 year old could seriously be looking at a VS catalog just to admire beauty with no sexual thoughts in his head -- or is this something you personally believe?

 

I'm honestly trying to find out how many people here have had open communication about these things with other men or their husbands.

 

This really goes back to assuming that everyone has the same issues with the 'world' and sin as everyone else. It may seem like it, some men may claim it, but that does not make it so.

 

I can completely believe that a boy could enjoy the beauty without it being sexual. Not many men are running off to art galleries to get their happies. It is possible to appreciate the beauty of something without it becoming sexual. It is possible to have an appreciation without it becoming sexual.

 

I blame our society for perpetuating this idea that we're all mindless genitals wandering around hoping for some excitement.

[Scarlett]

Yes, I certainly wasn't implying that all men get er*ctions and such just by looking at a woman in a catalog, but I have never met a man who wouldn't enjoy perusing a catalog of naked or half-naked beautiful women. I have never met a man who didn't find a hot body to be a turn-on. Sure, not all men will fantasize upon looking, but from my experience (talking to people, reading books, etc.) it wouldn't take long for this to happen.

 

I have also known women who swear their husbands don't gawk at other women, yet I have seen them do it. Some men are very sly about the way they steal more glances. I've seen them pretend to look at something else and then follow a woman around as she walks. But once, my husband and I were talking to a married man once who turned completely around so he could keep watching a woman walking away. My husband was shocked that he was so brazen about it.

 

I can understand that some women and some couples have no problems with the viewing of porn. I am not debating that here. I am just saying I have a really hard time believing that there are men out there who don't find s*xy, naked women to be a turn-on. That's all.

 

I was married to a brazen gawker....:ack2: so I'm hyper vigilent about it. I paid close attention to how my now dh looked at other women before we married. Things that my Xh would have drooled over don't even register with my dh. And sure I guess I could be married to a total deceiver, but I choose to believe that not all men are the same.

[kwickimom]

In my world, which is very conservative, I think 90% is too high of a figure.

 

 

 

 

Yes. This. To the men I've been close enough to discuss this issue....this is very true.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I tried the above approach (among others) and believe me it doesn't work. My now X-husband let porn take over his life and it was a 'gateway' drug so to speak--leading to more and brazen sexual misconduct until I was forced to divorce him. It destroyed our sex life and destroyed his ability to be intimate (in sexual and non sexual ways) with me.

 

I could never feel justified saying, 'if you don't stop your porn viewing I will divorce you,' but trust me it was a long slow death. I have discussed this issue with my new husband and he knows it is a deal breaker for me. I will not tolerate it ever again. He is a Christian and feels the same way...but I've been very clear with him that I will. not. stand for it.

 

I am very concerned about my own young son being exposed to it. It is spelled out in our custody agreement, signed by the judge, that there is to be no porn in the house at any time and that he is not to have access to any computer that has ever accessed porn. In addition, without mentioning his father's issues, I've been very clear with ds10, that viewing such images is very dangerous and he must be alert to avoiding it. I realize that at some point ds will make the choice, but he at least will have information about the damage it can cause. (as well as the moral issue that it displeases God).

 

To any woman who has a husband who struggles with it, or especially those who don't struggle with it but wallow in it, totally disregarding their wives feelings....I say don't dismiss it. It would be a line in the sand if I had to do it all over again. I am not convinced I could have saved my marriage with an ultimatum, but I didn't save it anyway, and I could have saved myself years of grief.

 

To ask 'is it worth divorcing over?'....I guess everyone has to decide that....but do you know there are actually women out there who think adultery is not divorce worthy?

 

It is a slippery slope in my mind.

 

These are the stories that worry me. I dont know if he is "addicited" he doesnt view it constantly and he cut down majorly when I told him it bothers me. He thinks it is not wrong to look at, so thats why he wont stop completely. He does however not take my feelings into account. So I dont know to say he is addicted because he could stop he just doesnt think he has to, because he is doing nothing wrong. The only thing it affects is my self esteem. Which in turn affects a few other things, but if I ignore it then you would think everything is fine.

 

So I wonder if I didnt have the low self esteem would I care about it? I told him if its on any computer here that the kids could see, that is was over with. I am worried about my boys, and them thinking its ok if he does (they are young now, but I wonder what he will say about it later)

 

Even if he never looked at it again, I still know that he wants to or thinks its OK. And I cant change that. Only God can at that point I guess.

 

I also sont want people thinking I am a freak for talking about this here. I have come to the point that if it doesnt embarrass him, why should it embarrass me? If he thinks it is Ok then he should have no problem talking to anyone about it KWIM?

 

UGH. I have been googling forums and there is just so much controversy about it. I dont want to have to be a computer stalker and act like his mommy.

[Scarlett]

But I do think that women are setting themselves up for heartache if they believe that if their husband loves them enough, he'll never so much as look at another woman. My husband loves me deeply, but I've seen that goofy grin on his face over other women. Big deal. It doesn't mean that either one of us has committed adultery in our hearts, because we don't dwell on it, we don't invite temptation, we don't let it interfere with our intimacy and trust. But those basic instincts of attraction are there. It's just part of being human.

 

The red portion above is key. THAT is where the problem comes in. People DO dwell on things and that leads to sin.