How many men struggle with pornography?

[JVA]

" There are sexually virtuous men out there. It may not be the norm. It may not be easy. But it is possible - for the Christian, with the power of the Holy Spirit, for others with the power of their human goodness. (There are theological implications to this sentence that I'm not going to get into because it isn't the topic at hand.)

I'm very glad that my dh does not struggle with this temptation. I'm glad that he's either wired to where it doesn't tempt him or his brain is so steeped in thinking differently from a young age, that it isn't a problem for him. "

I also have a husband wired this way- it's never been a problem and he's certainly been around MANY beautiful women in his career....and because of his tender heart- he was THE GUY many women in the office would talk to....that is one thing he's learned to manage carefully.

 

I am blessed and don't take it for granted. I hurt for women whose husbands are dealing with this. It's a blatant attack on their wives' esteem and well-being.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Huh? LOL.....I don't understand what he is saying and I'm curious what he means.

 

He said that it was sort of like reading a romance novel, where it set a scene for tempting thoughts. Then it tells you not to have the thoughts. He felt that it was much better to focus on how you should be thinking instead - on how to think about men and women's bodies, how to think about sex in general and about your relationship with your beloved.

 

BTW - my dh is a nurse. He sees men and women of all body types in some form of nakedness every way. Perhaps that's why he doesn't find it titillating!

[Mrs Mungo]

To tell you the truth, I don't know which it is for him. All I know is that he tells me that he doesn't struggle with it. And I've never seen any signs in him that he does struggle with it. But why he doesn't struggle with it - natural inclination, force of habit/mind, I don't know. I do know that he read "Every Man's battle" and he told me that he would not recommend that book for men who do struggle with porn or sexual temptation because the scenario approach it has where it discusses men being tempted would in itself be tempting to men who struggle in that area. So he seems to have some understanding of men who do struggle.

 

Thank you, Jean, that makes more sense. :)

 

I have three boys and dh and I are not raising them to be s*xual neanderthals. I am grateful for husband who has chosen to honor and respect me in our marriage.

 

I guess I am a bit offended that the general tone of this thread is that all men are slime and cannot possibly have any control over their thoughts.

 

I am sorry so many of you have such low opinions of men. My man must be an absolute one in a billion kind of guy.

 

Faith

 

Again, you seem to imply that you disagree with those who say they don't know any men who never have bad thoughts and yet you *also* say, "I am grateful for husband who has chosen to honor and respect me in our marriage," and, "cannot possibly have any control over their thoughts." eta: That implies your dh is making a CHOICE to be better and a CHOICE to CONTROL his thoughts.

 

I think what most people (like Dawn) are saying is that most men ARE tempted in that wisp of a dream way that I mentioned. That does NOT mean they think men cannot control themselves or keep themselves from temptation and that those things help prevent a more serious moral struggle.

 

I don't think men are slime. I don't think men are neanderthals. I *do* think men should control their thoughts and keep themselves out of tempting situations whenever possible. But, I agree with Dawn that it IS a temptation *on SOME level*, for *most* men.

Edited December 1, 2010 by Mrs Mungo

[elegantlion]

Being free of temptation and being "sexually virtuous" are not the same thing. The virtuous one is the one who resists temptation; not the one who is free of it. The one who is free of temptation in one area probably (likely) struggles in another. We all have weaknesses. However, if a person doesn't struggle with a temptation, it means they have developed a habit of self-control which makes it easier to resist. It doesn't mean they are never tempted.

 

I agree with Jean, though, that it seems like an accepted norm that men are just sexual neanderthals and denying it (and resistance) is futile.

 

To be fair in my representation of my dh I called him and we discussed this matter just a few minutes ago. When I mentioned the statistic of 90% of men being alike in the struggle, he laughed. I doubt 90% of any one group is alike in any way was what he basically said. He said if the statistic were true then he was in the 10%.

 

 

I feel for those you who have dealt with issues of mistrust and addiction. Porn is not the only addiction that can drive a wedge in a marriage. :grouphug:

[Meriwether]

I have three boys and dh and I are not raising them to be s*xual neanderthals. I am grateful for husband who has chosen to honor and respect me in our marriage.

 

I guess I am a bit offended that the general tone of this thread is that all men are slime and cannot possibly have any control over their thoughts.

 

I am sorry so many of you have such low opinions of men. My man must be an absolute one in a billion kind of guy.

 

Faith

 

 

I don't know about most men. I would be shocked if Dh ever cheats and very surprised if he seeks out porn. I've never seen him ogle a real life woman, but if he sees a beautiful woman on the screen, he doesn't pretend she isn't there. I could say the same of my brother and brother-in-law. BUT part of my BIL's job two positions ago was managing the sales team. Every. single. one. of them was unfaithful to his wife on sales trips. It made BIL very uncomfortable, especially since he had to see the men with their wives at company functions. So I don't know....I believe men are capable of fidelity, but I also believe there are a lot of guys out there who look at porn, cheat, what have you. In my personal life, the vast majority of guys are like my Dh, but I don't think that's true in all circles.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I think though that some people are equating even a momentary temptation with lust. Let's take sex out of the equation for a second. When I was little, I would take anything I saw, even though that would be stealing. But as I grew older, I learned to moderate that inclination of "I want it" with "but it's not mine". Over the years, that message is such a moral habit that it would really surprise me if I had an inclination to actually steal something. I do not struggle with this temptation at all, though I do see things on occasion that I like. In a similar way, many men have learned to moderate the inclination of "I want her" with "but she's not mine" so much so that it doesn't even give them an inclination to dwell on the former thought for even a second and it isn't even an "I want her" anymore but goes immediately to the "she's not mine".

[Mrs Mungo]

I think though that some people are equating even a momentary temptation with lust. Let's take sex out of the equation for a second. When I was little, I would take anything I saw, even though that would be stealing. But as I grew older, I learned to moderate that inclination of "I want it" with "but it's not mine". Over the years, that message is such a moral habit that it would really surprise me if I had an inclination to actually steal something. I do not struggle with this temptation at all, though I do see things on occasion that I like. In a similar way, many men have learned to moderate the inclination of "I want her" with "but she's not mine" so much so that it doesn't even give them an inclination to dwell on the former thought for even a second and it isn't even an "I want her" anymore but goes immediately to the "she's not mine".

 

That makes a lot of sense, Jean, I agree. I just am not sure it is actually in conflict with what many of the other people are saying.

[Jean in Newcastle]

That makes a lot of sense, Jean, I agree. I just am not sure it is actually in conflict with what many of the other people are saying.

 

I got the impression that some people might be coming from a slightly conflicting point of view. Instead of calling them on that though, I just decided to explain more thoroughly my point of view and they can decide for themselves if they agree with it or not!

[Flux]

I just want to say that I have agreed with everything you have said about this topic so far. I totally agree with the stat 90%. Just because a man denies it, or has never been caught doing it doesn't mean he hasn't/doesn't/won't. It's not something that I have ever seen a man waving his arms proudly admitting to doing (aside from some college guy roomates I had years ago). To me it's kind of like saying that men don't m*********. Just because they don't tell you doesn't mean a thing. I'm not saying 90% of men sit for hours at the computer looking through the plethora of sites that the internet gives us access to. But an occasional glance or site viewing is way more than common than many seem to think. I am confident in my marriage, and I am an attractive woman but I would never say that my dh will not ever or has not ever enjoyed some sites on the internet. I have never caught him or asked him. Do I consider this a problem? No, it only will become a problem for me it begins to effect my marriage. If men weren't viewing the stuff it wouldn't be such a profitable business.

You beat me to it! I FINALLY made it to the last page of this thread and was going to post that I agreed with nestof3 as well. My husband does not "struggle" with it; he enjoys it. As for me, I have been known to get moody about it on occasion if I am PMSing:tongue_smilie:, but otherwise I see it as ok. We do not belong to a religion though, so I don't view it as a sin.

 

P.S. Busy thread! In the time it took me to post this while making dinner, 2 more pages were added...

Edited December 1, 2010 by Flux

[Sun]

I have three boys and dh and I are not raising them to be s*xual neanderthals. I am grateful for husband who has chosen to honor and respect me in our marriage.

 

I guess I am a bit offended that the general tone of this thread is that all men are slime and cannot possibly have any control over their thoughts.

 

I am sorry so many of you have such low opinions of men. My man must be an absolute one in a billion kind of guy.

 

Faith

 

I don't think your guy is one in a billion. I'm frankly shocked and horrified at the number of people on here who largely discount the idea that a significant percentage of men could have actually grown up enough to have self control and discipline. Men can (and often do - though this thread is making me think it doesn't happen often enough) learn to behave in ways that reflect their values. Some men strive to live by their values. Some don't.

[Greta]

:iagree:

This.

 

I knew a lady who was brave enough to confide in me about this. She said they were married for twelve years, with him having a porn addiction the entire time. She had NO idea until she accidently "caught" him. She was absolutely shocked. I wonder if that is a common scenario.

 

I posed a related question earlier, but it's a big thread and I don't think anyone noticed. :D This isn't meant unkindly at all, but I am really wondering how in the world it could be an "addiction" if she did not know about it. My understanding of the word addiction precludes any possibility of it going on for more than a decade without a spouse knowing. Really, I'm not being unsympathetic to your friend! I can imagine her shock and hurt. I'm just pondering what people mean by addiction when it comes to porn. And I think some people view ANY use of porn as addiction, but I can't wrap my brain around that.

 

I like red wine. I typically have a couple of glasses on the weekend. My husband, whose father was an abusive alcoholic, could very well find this objectionable. But would that make it an addiction? To me, no. Addiction means that it is interfering with your ability to function in life. So a spouse, am employer, a friend, a family member is going to know about it.

 

Truly, I hope you know I am not "picking on you" at all. Just using your post as a jumping off point for discussion. Anyone care to discuss?? :)

[Sun]

I posed a related question earlier, but it's a big thread and I don't think anyone noticed. :D This isn't meant unkindly at all, but I am really wondering how in the world it could be an "addiction" if she did not know about it. My understanding of the word addiction precludes any possibility of it going on for more than a decade without a spouse knowing. Really, I'm not being unsympathetic to your friend! I can imagine her shock and hurt. I'm just pondering what people mean by addiction when it comes to porn. And I think some people view ANY use of porn as addiction, but I can't wrap my brain around that.

 

I like red wine. I typically have a couple of glasses on the weekend. My husband, whose father was an abusive alcoholic, could very well find this objectionable. But would that make it an addiction? To me, no. Addiction means that it is interfering with your ability to function in life. So a spouse, am employer, a friend, a family member is going to know about it.

 

Truly, I hope you know I am not "picking on you" at all. Just using your post as a jumping off point for discussion. Anyone care to discuss?? :)

 

Good question! I've been wondering the same thing since I see people arguing that it's more than 90% because every heterosexual man enjoys looking at women. To me that's very different than struggling with a porn addiction, ya know?

[Abigail4476]

I would definitely consider an addiction to be something more invasive than just the occasional peek. Wouldn't an addiction generally be defined as a repetitive behavior that interferes somehow with your overall health and relationships? I don't consider it an addiction for a person to have a single glass of wine with dinner, but if they're getting drunk every night and it's causing problems with their family, their job, etc - I would consider that an *addiction.*

 

Whether you feel that viewing porn is moral or not, or whether or not you have a Christian perspective, wouldn't you agree that:

 

If a spouse viewing porn begins to interfere with the health of the marital relationship, then it's unproductive at the very least.

 

What about:

 

If a husband chooses to view porn knowing that it hurts his wife's feelings or that it makes her feel insecure (in regard to his love for her), his priorities are out of line.

 

?

[mytwomonkeys]

one of my best friend's husband had big issues with porn. she had absolutely no idea!! i had absolutely no idea either & was totally as shocked as she was.

 

imho, it is a problem when the person is lying, hiding, sneaking, etc. my friend's dh went to great lengths to keep his porn addiction hidden. it was only by a careless mistake that he was confronted. it took a a few weeks before he came totally clean. what a mess it was. so much pain involved. thank God they are healing, but it was very sad.

[Scarlett]

one of my best friend's husband had big issues with porn. she had absolutely no idea!! i had absolutely no idea either & was totally as shocked as she was.

 

imho, it is a problem when the person is lying, hiding, sneaking, etc. my friend's dh went to great lengths to keep his porn addiction hidden. it was only by a careless mistake that he was confronted. it took a a few weeks before he came totally clean. what a mess it was. so much pain involved. thank God they are healing, but it was very sad.

 

My XH was watching it in front of me while I prepared dinner. And if I walked behind him he would flip to a screen on 'how to make a garden'. Sick. I saw it all in black and white when I got the keylogger report.

 

The amount he watched in the six weeks I had the keylogger on was staggering. But I honestly had no idea he was watching it that much until I put the keylogger on.

[nono]

Just to clarify -- what was the ending of "you've never met a man..." Who what? Didn't peruse p*rn? Who didn't find naked, hot women stimulating? Who didn't steal a glance when walking by the VS store? What was the ending of your sentence?

 

No, the men in my circle are in their 40's and above.

 

thanks

 

It was your post to which I referred:

I really don't mean to be cruel, but are you serious? You know this because he says it doesn't affect him? I have never met a man who would say that a beautiful woman in lingerie doesn't turn him on. I honestly don't get this.

_______________

 

I don't think what Dawn is saying and what you are saying are in conflict. She is saying men CHOOSE their behavior. So are you, as far as I can tell? If the men who aren't looking/acting on every whim or desire are exhibiting self-control (your implication), what are they controlling if not their more base/natural/worldly/whatever you want to call it desires?

 

I'm not picking on you, I'm just saying that I don't see a conflict here in the way that I am reading the posts.

 

 

 

Maybe, maybe not. I’m saying everyone has different preferences, different standards, and that no, seriously, there are men who aren’t turned on by a 2D image in a catalog. My assertion isn’t simply self-control, but also a matter of different men being wired differently as well. I don’t know, maybe I simply hang out with and grew up around people with a lot of hobbies.

While all the men that Dawn knows may all be one way, her experience cannot be extrapolated to the entire world. I’m not negating her experiences, but simply providing my experiences because she asked:

 

Okay. We will just have to disagree on this. I am curious if this info you have comes from conversations you've had with other men or your husband -- that men have told you that a 14 year old could seriously be looking at a VS catalog just to admire beauty with no sexual thoughts in his head -- or is this something you personally believe?

 

I'm honestly trying to find out how many people here have had open communication about these things with other men or their husbands.

 

This was posted in response to lionfamily1999’s assertion that there’s a concept of beauty without sexual response. (Sorry if I’m paraphrasing inaccurately, Julie.) But since were were responding along the same lines, I replied with my tongue-in-cheek “credentials” line, as if there’s really such a thing, because how do we really know anything about anyone? I thought I put the guy with the tongue sticking out in my reply, but as old age has gotten ahold of me, I forgot. :001_huh: Here he is: :tongue_smilie: (too late, doesn't have same effect...sorry!)

 

 

The original title of this thread was something about 90% of men “struggling” with porn and 50% of pastors as well. So, that’s why this discussion is all over the place.

1.Unverifiable stats.

2.Undefined terms: struggle and porn.

3.Oh, and then I jumped in when Dawn replied after Jean used the word titillate. Another term. To me titillate suggests some type of physical response as in jaw dropping, drooling, or the other usual way we know a guy is turned on.

 

 

I should also say I consider Victoria's Secret in bad taste, but I don't consider it porn. So in my personal situation, if my dh did react to the Victoria Secret catalog, I wouldn't think he was struggling with porn. Now, if he couldn't walk out the door to go out with me, without stopping to look at the catalog, I would think he had a problem.

 

 

Edited December 2, 2010 by nono
harrowing night with the editor!

[Jean in Newcastle]

Part of this thread has dealt with what I would call "lust" because people were talking about men taking a second look at a sexy woman etc. The VS catalog was more along the "lust" category because if men are so easily turned on that they can be drooling over a woman they pass on the street (or in one example, the beach) then the VS catalog would definitely apply. And for those men, I think the VS catalog would be in a sort of a soft porn category.

[Mrs Mungo]

Maybe, maybe not. I’m saying everyone has different preferences, different standards, and that no, seriously, there are men who aren’t turned on by a 2D image in a catalog. My assertion isn’t simply self-control, but also a matter of different men being wired differently as well. I don’t know, maybe I simply hang out with and grew up around people with a lot of hobbies.

While all the men that Dawn knows may all be one way, her experience cannot be extrapolated to the entire world.

 

I agree that not all men are turned-on by a catalog or even a Victoria's Secret model. That isn't exactly what I was agreeing with. I didn't extrapolate her meaning to mean that "all men are turned on by X," but "all men are turned on by something and most men struggle with temptation in one form or another." eta: Forgive me, Dawn, if I'm putting words in your mouth.

 

The original title of this thread was something about 90% of men “struggling” with porn and 50% of pastors as well. So, that’s why this discussion is all over the place.

1.Unverifiable stats.

2.Undefined terms: struggle and porn.

I agree that the terms are problematic. That's exactly why I was trying to figure out how much of this is disagreement with the ideas and how much was disagreement with the way those ideas were expressed.

 

3.

Oh, and then I jumped in when Dawn replied after Jean used the word titillate. Another term. To me titillate suggests some type of physical response as in jaw dropping, drooling, or the other usual way we know a guy is turned on.

Huh. That's not what titillate means to me. I've usually seen it used in more of a "tickle one's fancy" way. It's always had a superficial and umm...I don't know...mild ring to me. So, I wasn't thinking of the same sort of reaction that you were at all.

 

edited to try and fix quote boxes, I have no idea why they did that weird thing.

Edited December 2, 2010 by Mrs Mungo

[Nestof3]

I have seriously never said this. I feel like everything I am saying is getting warped somehow. I have tried again and again to clarify what I mean. I don't know how else to word it.

 

I have three boys and dh and I are not raising them to be s*xual neanderthals. I am grateful for husband who has chosen to honor and respect me in our marriage.

 

I guess I am a bit offended that the general tone of this thread is that all men are slime and cannot possibly have any control over their thoughts.

 

I am sorry so many of you have such low opinions of men. My man must be an absolute one in a billion kind of guy.

 

Faith

[nono]

Huh. That's not what titillate means to me. I've usually seen it used in more of a "tickle one's fancy" way. It's always had a superficial and umm...I don't know...mild ring to me. So, I wasn't thinking of the same sort of reaction that you were at all.

 

 

 

From the online Merriam-Webster:

Definition of TITILLATE

transitive verb

1: to excite pleasurably : arouse by stimulation

 

2: tickle

 

I'm not out-of-bounds with my interpretation. Neither are you.

[Jean in Newcastle]

From the online Merriam-Webster:

Definition of TITILLATE

transitive verb

1: to excite pleasurably : arouse by stimulation

 

2: tickle

 

I'm not out-of-bounds with my interpretation. Neither are you.

 

I was using it in the arousal sense though I realize that could be a continuum from mild to very strong.

[Mrs Mungo]

From the online Merriam-Webster:

Definition of TITILLATE

transitive verb

1: to excite pleasurably : arouse by stimulation

 

2: tickle

 

I'm not out-of-bounds with my interpretation. Neither are you.

 

In no way did I suggest you were out of bounds. I was describing my own reaction to the word. It's an example of why this sort of discussion is easily misconstrued. eta: While I agree that it almost always means to arouse in some fashion, it's my experience that it's usually used in a mildly arousing sense.

 

Again, my purpose in posting was to try and figure out if it's the *ideas* being expressed people are objecting to or just the way they have been expressed. I tend to think it's the latter.

[Mrs Mungo]

I agree that not all men are turned-on by a catalog or even a Victoria's Secret model. That isn't exactly what I was agreeing with. I didn't extrapolate her meaning to mean that "all men are turned on by X," but "all men are turned on by something and most men struggle with temptation in one form or another." eta: Forgive me, Dawn, if I'm putting words in your mouth.

 

I'm quoting myself to clarify. Nearly every person who has spoken about against what Dawn and others are saying (No, no, Jean, Faith, etc) has said something like "it can be hard, but it's possible," or asserted that men should "use self-control" and so forth. That indicates to me that everyone agrees that most men do struggle with temptation in one form or another, on one level or another. eta: So do most women, in my experience.

 

Yes, with self-discipline over a long period of time, people become less and less tempted. Yes, people should avoid putting themselves in the way of temptation. I don't think Dawn is saying men can't or shouldn't do those things.

 

I have seriously never said this. I feel like everything I am saying is getting warped somehow. I have tried again and again to clarify what I mean. I don't know how else to word it.

 

Dawn, am I getting your meaning, or were you saying something else?

[Denisemomof4]

Okay -- again, spoken by a woman. I think perhaps it would be more accurate to set up an anon. poll at the Marriage Bed website or something.

 

And again, I am not insisting that all men act on the fact that he has access to images. I am certainly not insisting that all men relieve themselves by using those images. I am just insisting that I have never met a man who wouldn't enjoy the images on some level.

 

maybe they enjoy the images like we have when we post the pics of the cabana boys here? I know sometimes while flipping through the pages of a Macy's flyer, for example, I am taken back by the stunning attraction of some of the men. My heart melts when I see a gorgeous baby with a huge smile. Can men enjoy images of women the same way? I think so but I'm not a man and can't say for sure.

[Nestof3]

Dawn, am I getting your meaning, or were you saying something else?

 

Yes, I should have been more specific. I do feel like you are getting what I am saying. I know we don't always see eye-to-eye on things, and it probably seems like we're often in disagreement, but I do think you understand me on this.

 

BTW -- I watched a movie last night with probably the hottest guy I have ever seen. I mean, I was stunned. But, I still had no s*xual desire toward this "nobody real in my life" person. I couldn't care less what his private parts were like, etc. I still think I am wired very differently than men. I wouldn't want to see him in the nude. I wouldn't want to imagine acts with him. I don't think guys go there all the time, but I think they are more prone to go in that direction than women.

 

Now, if this hot guy were to start making me dinner every night, started treating me like a queen, surprised me with flowers, and found numerous other ways to make me feel special, secure, delighted, etc. -- then watch out. That would be temptation for me.

[Mrs Mungo]

Yes, I should have been more specific. I do feel like you are getting what I am saying. I know we don't always see eye-to-eye on things, and it probably seems like we're often in disagreement, but I do think you understand me on this.

 

I think we agree as much as we disagree. I play devil's advocate a lot. I don't always reveal my personal opinion on matters. ;)

 

BTW -- I watched a movie last night with probably the hottest guy I have ever seen. I mean, I was stunned. But, I still had no s*xual desire toward this "nobody real in my life" person. I couldn't care less what his private parts were like, etc. I still think I am wired very differently than men. I wouldn't want to see him in the nude. I wouldn't want to imagine acts with him. I don't think guys go there all the time, but I think they are more prone to go in that direction than women.

 

Now, if this hot guy were to start making me dinner every night, started treating me like a queen, surprised me with flowers, and found numerous other ways to make me feel special, secure, delighted, etc. -- then watch out. That would be temptation for me.

 

Oh, I agree that I think different people are tempted in different ways. And I agree that men are more often visually stimulated than women. I think that's part of what no, no was saying too-that not all men are visually stimulated, I do think most men are. That doesn't mean they aren't capable of controlling themselves or their impulses. I don't think anyone has said anything like that.

[Denisemomof4]

And yes, even when they look, they can choose to look briefly and move on mentally, or they can choose to dwell on it. But, it still comes down to choices.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

And again, this is NOT a man's issue. This is an issue for both sexes, and both have choices as to how they'll handle themselves.

[Denisemomof4]

Yup. Three. Times. At least. Thanks for the hugs. It has been a long and relatively lonely road back for me. I'm very open about this because I know lots of people have gone through it and many more will go through it. It really helped me to know that there were others out there like me that have been hurt like this. I'm vigilant and realistic about the odds of it not happening again. He is working hard at making things right. I'm working on my doctorate in my field to better position myself career wise should I need to jump ship. I hope that doesn't happen but my ducks are in a row if need be. Thank you for the hugs and understanding.

 

what a SAD, sad situation. I do hope things work out for you, but I'm so happy to hear you're being totally realistic. Again, more:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[sagira]

BTW -- I watched a movie last night with probably the hottest guy I have ever seen. I mean, I was stunned. But, I still had no s*xual desire toward this "nobody real in my life" person. I couldn't care less what his private parts were like, etc. I still think I am wired very differently than men. I wouldn't want to see him in the nude. I wouldn't want to imagine acts with him. I don't think guys go there all the time, but I think they are more prone to go in that direction than women.

 

Now, if this hot guy were to start making me dinner every night, started treating me like a queen, surprised me with flowers, and found numerous other ways to make me feel special, secure, delighted, etc. -- then watch out. That would be temptation for me.

 

Okay, Dawn. Spill the beans. What movie? I want eye candy :)

[Scarlett]

 

It was your post to which I referred:

_______________

 

 

Maybe, maybe not. I’m saying everyone has different preferences, different standards, and that no, seriously, there are men who aren’t turned on by a 2D image in a catalog. My assertion isn’t simply self-control, but also a matter of different men being wired differently as well. I don’t know, maybe I simply hang out with and grew up around people with a lot of hobbies.

While all the men that Dawn knows may all be one way, her experience cannot be extrapolated to the entire world. I’m not negating her experiences, but simply providing my experiences because she asked:

 

 

This was posted in response to lionfamily1999’s assertion that there’s a concept of beauty without sexual response. (Sorry if I’m paraphrasing inaccurately, Julie.) But since were were responding along the same lines, I replied with my tongue-in-cheek “credentials†line, as if there’s really such a thing, because how do we really know anything about anyone? I thought I put the guy with the tongue sticking out in my reply, but as old age has gotten ahold of me, I forgot. :001_huh: Here he is: :tongue_smilie: (too late, doesn't have same effect...sorry!)

 

 

The original title of this thread was something about 90% of men “struggling†with porn and 50% of pastors as well. So, that’s why this discussion is all over the place.

1.Unverifiable stats.

2.Undefined terms: struggle and porn.

3.Oh, and then I jumped in when Dawn replied after Jean used the word titillate. Another term. To me titillate suggests some type of physical response as in jaw dropping, drooling, or the other usual way we know a guy is turned on.

 

 

I should also say I consider Victoria's Secret in bad taste, but I don't consider it porn. So in my personal situation, if my dh did react to the Victoria Secret catalog, I wouldn't think he was struggling with porn. Now, if he couldn't walk out the door to go out with me, without stopping to look at the catalog, I would think he had a problem.

 

 

 

I asked my dh just now if he is turned on by a VS catalog. He say no. I asked him if he has looked at a VS catalog. He said, 'sure. Many times. Ordered from it many times.' Shrug. I believe him....that he ordered from it for his WIFE....and wasn't looking through it to get turned on.

[Catwoman]

We had friends visit and the husband was taking photos of girls on the beach. I mean, REALLY? That is disgusting and creepy, married or not, imo, but ESPECIALLY if you're married.

 

:iagree:

 

:ack2::ack2::ack2:

 

Cat

[Nestof3]

Okay, maybe it's the facial hair, but here you go:

 

But, my faithful, hard-working husband (who is taking me out on a date Thurs. night) will be getting all of my love and affection. ;)

 

But -- you did ask. ;)

 

Okay, Dawn. Spill the beans. What movie? I want eye candy :)

[asta]

Dawn...

 

I think I got the vapors... - swoon -

 

 

a

[Jenny in GA]

I posed a related question earlier, but it's a big thread and I don't think anyone noticed. :D This isn't meant unkindly at all, but I am really wondering how in the world it could be an "addiction" if she did not know about it. My understanding of the word addiction precludes any possibility of it going on for more than a decade without a spouse knowing. Really, I'm not being unsympathetic to your friend! I can imagine her shock and hurt. I'm just pondering what people mean by addiction when it comes to porn. And I think some people view ANY use of porn as addiction, but I can't wrap my brain around that.

 

I like red wine. I typically have a couple of glasses on the weekend. My husband, whose father was an abusive alcoholic, could very well find this objectionable. But would that make it an addiction? To me, no. Addiction means that it is interfering with your ability to function in life. So a spouse, am employer, a friend, a family member is going to know about it.

 

Truly, I hope you know I am not "picking on you" at all. Just using your post as a jumping off point for discussion. Anyone care to discuss?? :)

 

 

Good question. I had actually thought the same thing after I posted.

 

Perhaps "addiction" isn't the right word. Regular user?

 

What I can say is that he was looking at porn fairly regularly, for twelve years of marriage, without her knowing. He didn't like the fact that he was doing it, and was angry at himself for doing it, but still, he didn't stop.

 

One thing that really struck me was how she said she never would have imagined he would do something like that. She said something like -- If somebody would have asked her during those years if her husband did Internet porn, she would have laughed and said he was not into that at all! Honestly, the things she said sounded just like a lot of posts here, which makes me really wonder how often this kind of thing happens.

[kwickimom]

I will never get the need to see everyone naked. I never ever ever want to see any other man naked. If I see a gorgoeus guy, such as Patrick Dempsey, I am admiring how good he looks....and actually I think he looks better IN clothes than he would naked, as I would never want to look at him naked.

 

I think its perverted to want to look at everyone naked. And I dont think its right or should just be labeled as a man thing. I am fine if he sees a beautiful woman and briefly looks at her, I do that sometimes. But I do not think a 30 yr old married man of 3 needs to see everybody naked, or should want to. DH and most of his friends and his father think there is nothing wrong with it and that it is a man thing.

 

I just feel that a married man pledges himself to one woman and that should mean that woman is it. period. I do feel that it is kind of like a fake cheating and I need to put a full stop to it.

[Greta]

Good question. I had actually thought the same thing after I posted.

 

Perhaps "addiction" isn't the right word. Regular user?

 

What I can say is that he was looking at porn fairly regularly, for twelve years of marriage, without her knowing. He didn't like the fact that he was doing it, and was angry at himself for doing it, but still, he didn't stop.

 

One thing that really struck me was how she said she never would have imagined he would do something like that. She said something like -- If somebody would have asked her during those years if her husband did Internet porn, she would have laughed and said he was not into that at all! Honestly, the things she said sounded just like a lot of posts here, which makes me really wonder how often this kind of thing happens.

 

Thanks for your reply. After I posted, I wondered if simply an inability to give it up would make it qualified as an addiction. The tricky part there is knowing whether it's a true inability or just an unwillingness. I guess no one but that person knows for sure, and even they could be fooling themselves.

 

I think an unwillingness to give up porn if it is hurting one's spouse in immature, selfish, and a few other unsavory words I can think of. But Im not sure it's addiction.

 

I feel for your friend. After being in a monogamous relationship with him for 18 years, I think I know my husband pretty well. I feel pretty confident that I could predict what would tempt him and what wouldn't. I can only imagine my utter shock in a situation like hers.

[Scarlett]

I feel for your friend. After being in a monogamous relationship with him for 18 years, I think I know my husband pretty well. I feel pretty confident that I could predict what would tempt him and what wouldn't. I can only imagine my utter shock in a situation like hers.

 

Maybe I have a suspicious nature, but I was never really shocked at the things I found out about my now XH. Well, I take that back, I was shocked at the sheer amount of time he was spending looking at porn. But anyway, I am pretty intuitive about people and I knew early on (just not before I actually MARRIED him) that something was off. It took a hammer on my head for me to decide to divorce him, but I had lost my trust in him long ago.

 

I have a good friend whose now XH was cheating on her....she was shocked. So I don't know if there are better cheaters or less observant wives....or a combination of both.

 

However, generally I would say, from my experience and things I've read since then, that if you see some porn viewing it is probably just the tip of the iceberg. If you doubt it, install a keylogger without telling your dh. That isn't to you Greta....it is to the general 'You' of wives who are concerned with it.

[Denisemomof4]

I will never get the need to see everyone naked. I never ever ever want to see any other man naked. If I see a gorgoeus guy, such as Patrick Dempsey, I am admiring how good he looks....and actually I think he looks better IN clothes than he would naked, as I would never want to look at him naked.

 

I think its perverted to want to look at everyone naked. And I dont think its right or should just be labeled as a man thing. I am fine if he sees a beautiful woman and briefly looks at her, I do that sometimes. But I do not think a 30 yr old married man of 3 needs to see everybody naked, or should want to. DH and most of his friends and his father think there is nothing wrong with it and that it is a man thing.

 

I just feel that a married man pledges himself to one woman and that should mean that woman is it. period. I do feel that it is kind of like a fake cheating and I need to put a full stop to it.

 

Ultimately, he's knowingly hurting you over and over if he continues on after you tell him how bad it makes you feel. That IS a huge issue.

 

And I like what you wrote above. I really admire a good looking man myself, but I prefer him to be dressed. In a good pair of Levis or a pair of shorts, NO Speedo.:D

[Greta]

I have a good friend whose now XH was cheating on her....she was shocked. So I don't know if there are better cheaters or less observant wives....or a combination of both.

 

My husband has a friend who is always boasting about his many affairs. :glare: Maybe affairs is the wrong word, because he is never with one woman more than once. We wonder if his wife knows and tolerates it, but he says she would leave him if she found out. That makes me so mad, because they have two young boys and he's willing to potentially disrupt their lives for his . . . activities. But I also just don't see how she could not know.

 

Incidentally, my dh hates this and has told him that he really doesn't want to hear about his exploits. And I don't know the wife well at all. Haven't seen her in ten years (they live in a different state). So me telling her is definitely not an option! And I'm not sure I would if I could. That's not a task I would want!!!

[Catwoman]

NO Speedo.:D

 

:iagree:

 

Speedos are just wrong. :ack2:

 

I don't care how great a man's body is, a Speedo just ruins the whole visual experience for me. It's like he's screaming, "Hey -- look what I've got!" (And it's usually not as impressive as he thinks it is...;))

 

Cat

[Catwoman]

My husband has a friend who is always boasting about his many affairs. :glare: Maybe affairs is the wrong word, because he is never with one woman more than once. We wonder if his wife knows and tolerates it, but he says she would leave him if she found out. That makes me so mad, because they have two young boys and he's willing to potentially disrupt their lives for his . . . activities.

 

I think I'd be more concerned that he could be passing along some very nasty diseases to his poor wife. Let's face it, if the women he's "dating" are all into one-night stands, chances are pretty good he's not the only guy they're having them with.

 

I guess we can only hope that the guy is a big fat liar, and that a lot of the cheating is going on in his mind and not in reality. We knew a man like that. He acted like such a sleaze, but we eventually found out that he wasn't really doing any of the stuff he'd been bragging about.

 

Cat

[Jean in Newcastle]

This thread prompted a very good talk with my ds last night about temptation, thoughts, faithfulness etc.

[Greta]

I think I'd be more concerned that he could be passing along some very nasty diseases to his poor wife. Let's face it, if the women he's "dating" are all into one-night stands, chances are pretty good he's not the only guy they're having them with.

 

Good point. It was very stupid of me to assume he was being responsible, and yet I guess I was assuming just that. And no protection is 100%.

 

I guess we can only hope that the guy is a big fat liar, and that a lot of the cheating is going on in his mind and not in reality. We knew a man like that. He acted like such a sleaze, but we eventually found out that he wasn't really doing any of the stuff he'd been bragging about.

 

You know, I have seriously considered this! He is *definitely* the boasting/exaggerating type! I even told my husband that the story this guy told about the woman he met on the airplane, was probably nothing more than he met a pretty woman on an airplane and filled in the rest with what he wished had happened! I really hope and pray that's all it is. It would explain why his wife is still with him. She probably knows better than the rest of us that he's full of hot hair. :lol:

[Scarlett]

This thread prompted a very good talk with my ds last night about temptation, thoughts, faithfulness etc.

 

Dh and I also had a good conversation about all that..

[Jean in Newcastle]

Dh and I also had a good conversation about all that..

 

Scarlett - I get good goosebumps every time you say "dh and I". . .:001_smile::001_smile::001_smile:

[Scarlett]

Scarlett - I get good goosebumps every time you say "dh and I". . .:001_smile::001_smile::001_smile:

 

:) I know. Me too. Btw, did I mention on this thread that he says he is NOT turned on by VS catalogs. I heart him.

[KidsHappen]

(And it's usually not as impressive as he thinks it is...;))

 

Cat

 

Yes that's true because if a man really is that impressive, he can't be contained by a speedo. ;)

[Scarlett]

Yes that's true because if a man really is that impressive, he can't be contained by a speedo. ;)

 

 

:lol::smilielol5:

[ChiMomNP]

what a SAD, sad situation. I do hope things work out for you, but I'm so happy to hear you're being totally realistic. Again, more:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Thank you. I believe they will work out the way they should. We are 20 months out from me finding out and so far so OK. It is still day by day. Sometimes I wonder if that part will ever get better. I was so completely blindsided by all of it that now even when things are good I get nervous and think "You thought things were great before and looked how bad they were, what if your missing something?" It makes something simple like us relaxing on the couch and laughing in front of the fire an event that can trigger me to panic and say " OMG! We did this all the time before and I didn't know he was sleeping with someone else, what if I'm missing something?" Ugh. It changes everything and sometimes I think I'll never relax again. It is becoming the new normal.

[Catwoman]

Yes that's true because if a man really is that impressive, he can't be contained by a speedo. ;)

 

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

I just spit coffee on my keyboard!

 

Cat