Can someone enlighten me about Baptists?

[Halcyon]

I am a secular homeschooler, but am Christian.. sort of....:glare: I was baptised in the Episcopal Church 8 years ago, having found a wonderful, open-minded, gay friendly church in NYC near my house. My kids and I enjoyed going there on Sundays, it was low key and enjoyable. I learned a lot. My husband didn't go as he is Jewish. But I have also studied extensively with Pir Vilayat in the Sufi tradition, and I practice Buddhist meditation.........

 

Anyway, we've since moved to South Florida, and the churches here are...different. They feel different than the churches up north. The two Episcopal churches we visited were definitely on the other side of the schism from my church in NYC. I think overall they're more conservative? More evangelical perhaps? Definitely less intellectual (I don't mean that negatively although I know it sounds that way) and more about plain ol' belief: WE BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST...a lot of pro-life talk where it's assumed everyone believes the same thing, certainly right-wing politically in general...anyway. I am not bashing people's beliefs AT ALL. I envy the strength of their faith, in fact. But it hasn't felt right for me, so far.

 

Anyway, a wonderful neighbor of ours, who also homeschools, invited me to her church's Fall Fest this week. We had a super nice time. The people were kind, the pastor was friendly, and the women I chatted with were funny and sort of irreverent in a friendly way. The church is a Baptist church, but my friend tells me she personally is non-denominational but just loves the church, and they accept her and her family. She herself is quite religious (she's the first person I've ever met who doesn't let her kids read Harry Potter! Although they did watch Avatar...hmmm...)

 

She wants me to come on Sunday to visit, have my kids go to the kids' sunday school, and for me to meet some of the people. My DH wouldn't go because as I mentioned he's Jewish...and non-practicing at that. I am tempted to go. I haven't met a ton of people since moving here, and I feel out of place and would love to meet new people. But I am wary, as I am a liberal, pro-gay marriage, and pro-choice. I also feel strongly that there are many paths to God, and I don't think that's this church's beliefs. I also worry about going and then stopping going...I worry about offending my friend. And shouldn't the main reason you go to church be to worship God? I sometimes feel I can worship God in other ways....but I miss the fellowship....

 

I have also been planning on visiting a Unity Church near us (went to a UU service but I didn't enjoy it) but I really do miss the fellowship of an active and large church, which the Unity church doesn't really have. This Baptist church has tons of kids' programs which would be wonderful, and I felt the community was strong.

 

Okay, so tell me...what do I do? Is the Baptist church super conservative, or am I reading into things? Thanks for any advice.

 

ETA: If anyone would be willing to look at this particular church's Doctrinal Statement to help me understand their approach, please let me know and I will PM you the link. Thank you so much.

Edited October 29, 2010 by Halcyon

[Farrar]

I grew up in a super liberal Baptist church in the south. But that's a rarity. There are some things that unite Baptists, but one of those things is the power of the congregation to help form the policies of the church, which means that Baptist churches can be very different. Most are pretty conservative, fundamentalist organizations however.

[patchfire]

What "type" of Baptist church is it? Primitive, Southern, American, independent? The answer to that question will make a difference.

 

And, despite generalizations that can be made, there are still, of course, exceptions to every rule. I attended a church in the '90s that was nominally Southern Baptist, but was one of the most liberal congregations I've known of, and that was in a small town in north Georgia!

 

That said, if it's a Southern or primitive Baptist church, it's likely to be quite conservative. Independent Baptists are either going to be even MORE conservative or a lot more liberal.

 

American Baptist churches in the south, at least, tend to be predominantly African-American (i.e., Ebenezer Baptist in Atlanta).

[Halcyon]

What "type" of Baptist church is it? Primitive, Southern, American, independent? The answer to that question will make a difference.

 

And, despite generalizations that can be made, there are still, of course, exceptions to every rule. I attended a church in the '90s that was nominally Southern Baptist, but was one of the most liberal congregations I've known of, and that was in a small town in north Georgia!

 

That said, if it's a Southern or primitive Baptist church, it's likely to be quite conservative. Independent Baptists are either going to be even MORE conservative or a lot more liberal.

 

American Baptist churches in the south, at least, tend to be predominantly African-American (i.e., Ebenezer Baptist in Atlanta).

 

How do I figure this out? Their website doesn't state anything, I dont' think, about their denomination. Maybe they're independent?

[patchfire]

How do I figure this out? Their website doesn't state anything, I dont' think, about their denomination. Maybe they're independent?

 

You could try the SBC's search for your area and see if they're listed as a member.

 

And, I forgot, to further confuse you, some Baptist churches are SBC AND Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, or just CBF - their search page is here

[Mama Geek]

A lot of baptists believe in the tribulation and a lot of baptist do not believe in infant baptism. (I won't say all because there are usually exceptions to everything) I think both of these issues are different than the teachings in the episcopal church.

[Halcyon]

You could try the SBC's search for your area and see if they're listed as a member.

 

And, I forgot, to further confuse you, some Baptist churches are SBC AND Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, or just CBF - their search page is here

 

 

Okay, they're not in the SBC or CBF...

[Meriwether]

The Baptist churches I've attended were very conservative. I'm sure you'll get lots of opinions about this.

 

I just wanted to say that we move every so often with Dh's job. We look around to find a church to attend. We don't always find one that we agree with, but we find the one that best meets our needs. While attending a church, we conciously steer clear of things we don't agree with. We don't argue points in SS that we know the church feels strongly about. We don't bring it up in conversation. If the issue were important enough to break fellowship with the church, we would just stop attending. My parents were once part of a church that was wonderful. The congregation was very much into outreach. They built a new church building (Dad spent a year doing most of the work - free of charge) close to town. Many people started coming, but they wanted to change the church - in fundamental ways. They even went so far as to kick out some of the original members. The people who built that building are now meeting in a machine shed in the country. I'm not implying that you'd do something like that, but if you find yourself in a church where you want to "fix" things, it might not be a good fit.

[kokotg]

Baptists are diverse, almost by definition, as they're non-creedal. That said, IME, they tend to be very conservative. My Dad and stepmom are Baptist and tend to change churches a lot, so I made the rounds of quite a few Baptist (mostly independent) churches as a kid...certainly none of the churches we visited then are ones I would be comfortable in today, either socio-politically or theologically. We're in Georgia, and I'm very familiar with the church-hunting problems you describe. For several years we drove almost an hour to go to church in Atlanta. We finally left for various reasons, but one of the big ones was to find somewhere closer to home. We weren't terribly successful, and we've finally landed at another church that's only a bit closer (35 minutes vs. 45-50). We don't seem to be able to find a good fit any closer than that.

 

ETA: have you checked to see if there's a United Church of Christ near you? Also potentially more liberal denominations are Lutheran (ELCA) and the church we're going to now is a Disciples of Christ church, though my understanding is they are usually more conservative (ours is most definitely not conservative), but open to disagreement about theological issues.

Edited October 29, 2010 by kokotg

[FO4UR]

If you PM me the link I can probably give you a little insight into what they believe/practice.

 

Baptist churches vary so widely...some are very conservative and some are quite liberal. My dh is in the ministry (currently looking for a position) and I have a habit of looking on church websites and gleaning where they fall on that pendulum...:tongue_smilie:

[Evergreen State Sue]

If you want to go to church to fellowship, I would think you would want to find a church that is like minded with your beliefs. Then you would fellowship with fellow believers of what you believe and your children would also be fellowshipping with other children from families with your same beliefs.

[Halcyon]

 

ETA: have you checked to see if there's a United Church of Christ near you? Also potentially more liberal denominations are Lutheran (ELCA) and the church we're going to now is a Disciples of Christ church, though my understanding is they are usually more conservative (ours is most definitely not conservative), but open to disagreement about theological issues.

 

There is a UCC church near us (just looked) and they do seem more closely aligned in approach to the church I attended up North. And the wiki entry on UCC looks intriguing! But it does seem like a small church.

[kokotg]

But it does seem like a small church.

 

Yeah, that's the thing. There are big UCC churches, but not so much in the south, particularly not outside of large cities. Our church in Atlanta was pretty much the big UCC church, and I think it averaged something like 150-200 people on Sunday mornings.

[Amy in KS]

Where are you at in Florida? We lived there for seven months recently and we found the churches there very different, too! The worship music was altogether different there as well. I never did get the hang of it. If you're in the Tampa area I can point you in a few directions...

 

Have you looked at Methodist churches? They sound like they may be up your alley. I grew up Methodist and found them to be very accepting of different people.

[Smithie]

If you want a large and active religious community in South Florida that is socially/politically liberal - look for your nearest Reform Jewish congregation. :tongue_smilie:

 

I'm not 100 percent kidding. I'm in SC, and there are many gentile spouses of Jewish people who are very involved in my community, have their kids in all the activities etc., for years and years without pressure to convert. It's worth looking into.

 

However, my town also has an active UU (often a great place for interfaith families), and several Methodist congregations that don't seem scary at all. Really, it's best to attend services at several places and get a feel for what fits.

[ElizabethB]

We've been members of 2 different Baptist churches and I still don't understand it all! We have also been United Methodist and several independent churches and a military Protestant church.

 

One was Reformed Baptist, we were not quite sure what that meant, but they seemed more conservative than our usual churches, but we had friends that went there and we liked it fairly well. (Plus, we were only there for 9 months...we are not as picky when we are only going to be somewhere for a year or less.)

 

The other was plain Baptist, they were more liberal than most Baptist churches; in fact, while we were there, they had a proposal to stay Baptist but take the word Baptist out of their name. That was very decisive, many people had strong opinions about this on both sides, and there were young and old on both sides. They dropped the issue because it was starting to cause problems and be all anyone talked about. (Who knew!)

 

We move a lot and you really have to just go and see, although you can get a good idea from mp3s of sermons if they have them online.

[Matryoshka]

There is a UCC church near us (just looked) and they do seem more closely aligned in approach to the church I attended up North. And the wiki entry on UCC looks intriguing! But it does seem like a small church.

 

I attend a UCC/UUA church - The UCC sounds like it could be right up your alley. Our church has a very vibrant congregation, but we're here where the UCC originated - I don't think it's as "popular" in other areas of the country. From what I've heard of Unity, if I had to move someday, it'd be a church I'd look into - what I've heard of them intrigues me (though I've never attended a Unity church, just read about them). But by the very nature of the demographics in your area, it is likely any liberal congregations would be on the small side. Or possibly run more conservative than the same denomination up here in the generally more liberal Northeast. The UCC being a congregational church, it can differ widely from congregation to congregation. The UCC church in my hometown somehow ended up being run by a Baptist preacher, the whole congregation went conservative and after a decade or so broke with the UCC and sold the building to a Korean church...

Edited October 29, 2010 by matroyshka

[Miss Sherry]

.............

She wants me to come on Sunday to visit, have my kids go to the kids' sunday school, and for me to meet some of the people. ...... I am tempted to go. I haven't met a ton of people since moving here, and I feel out of place and would love to meet new people. But I am wary, as I am a liberal, pro-gay marriage, and pro-choice. I also feel strongly that there are many paths to God, and I don't think that's this church's beliefs. I also worry about going and then stopping going...I worry about offending my friend. And shouldn't the main reason you go to church be to worship God? I sometimes feel I can worship God in other ways....but I miss the fellowship....

 

................................

 

Okay, so tell me...what do I do? Is the Baptist church super conservative, or am I reading into things? Thanks for any advice.

...............

You could just tell your friend that yes, you will "visit". A visit is not a commitment to keep going. Churches are accustomed to having people visit. You do not have to have all of your ducks in a row regarding knowing every single thing they believe just to visit. You may want to visit once or twice and continue to look into what all they believe after that if you are still interested. I would not feel guilty AT ALL about visiting a church a few times or even once. But you may want to make a comment to your friend that it is a visit - not the first time attending for a long term commitment. But she probably already assumes it is just a visit and not a commitment.

[MaryElizabeth]

As a southerner who's grown up in only Baptist church, here's my post-midnight-exhausted-but-can't-sleep-thanks-to-too-lately-ingested-caffeine response FWIW:

 

southerners in general are much more conservative and bapists church, esp. southern baptists churches are known for traditionally being very conservative and closely-adhering to Biblical doctrines. Because we adhere to Biblical theology, that means we CANNOT ascent to pro-choice, pro-gay-marriage, etc. That would be an oxymoron to most Baptists.

Abortion and homosexuality, for Christians, are "easy" issues to sort out. They're black and white. The Bible has clear/undeniable stances on both and because the Bible is the truth of God in written form for Christians, then you generally won't find fence-straddlers on these particular issues. The UU church is typified by people who are liberal on such social issues.

 

Now, Baptists are also notoriously friendly people who would LOVE to open up and have you and your family attend church and activities with them. And, if you claimed to be a born again believer and held to such positions, we would have a DUTY to inform you that you are not a born-again Christian as we see it. To say otherwise to you would be an outright lie and denial of our faith. The Bible clearly teaches that homosexuals will not enter the Kingdom of God. Not that a gay person can't repent and turn from this sinful lifestyle and come to Christ, but ---- the Bible clearly teaches that a practicing, unrepentant homosexual is ****ed.

 

If you go to a Baptist church and are told that you are a Christian given your views and that one's beliefs on such issues is neutral, then one of three things is the case:

1. the person is a wuss who is afraid of offending you by telling you otherwise

2. the person is not a Christian his /herself as manifested by not getting his/her beliefs lined up with what the Lord's word teaches on such subjects

3. the person is such a new Christian that he or she doesn't have a clue as to what the Bible teaches about such

 

Now, as a Christian, I have a few non-Christian friends. In fact, I have a good friend who turned from Christ and is now an avowed atheist. She knows that we disagree in this major area, and that my greatest hope is that she come to faith in Christ, but -- until then, I'm not going to not enjoy fellowship and company with her. We have other shared commonalities, but on religious matters, which we can discuss neutrally I might add, we just know we are polar opposites.

 

I don't mind what people share with me about their views on any matter, but once a person's belief is what the Bible states is fruit of a person clearly being outside of Christ, then the Christian has a DUTY to make a statement of truth as to whether that person is in Christ or not. This is not being judgmental; it's simply agreeing with our written authority, namely the Bible on a matter. For example, if my son makes a 64 on math test and his teaching puts an F on his paper, I can't complain that she's being judgmental --- she's simply going by the RULES of examining. The Bible gives us clear parameters for looking at "FRUIT" (the natural outcome) of being a Christian. If an apple tree, has an orange on it, it's not judgmental to say that they two don't go together. For a Christian, to say that a Christian (tree) CAN (is able) to bear the fruit of affirming homosexuality is just a misnomer. It's like the magazine editor of Sports Illustrated Swimsuit magazine saying on phone to a person wanting to apply, "Sure, send in your application and you're weighing 278 lbs doesn't disqualify you in the least." Sounds nice, but still its misinformation.

 

So, I hope you go to that church and meet a slew of good friends and I hope you and your family continues to go. But I hope and pray that if and when your stance on such issues comes up that they won't LIE to you and say that you can be a Christian and believe that way as, according to our views from Scripture, the two claims are oil and water.

 

If I claimed to be an Olympic swimmer and that I was going head to head with Michael Phelps every week in training and you're looking at me and I weigh 400 lbs (to use the physical analogy), then you're not being judgmental to just not offer any affirmation.

 

So, if you want a church that will let you claim both -- that you're a born-again Christian and that you hold to those views, then you'll likely be disappointed in the VAST majority of Baptist churches. If you want that (in my view false) affirmation, then the UU church will tell you that Jesus was only about loving everyone where they are and they'll just encourage you to build houses for the homeless and keep the food pantry stocked and they'll leave off the BULK of Scripture that teaches about the wrath of God for sin and how He sent his Son to atone for it and how HE takes the ignoring of Christ's sin offering ****ingly serious and that he requires repentance and a change of heart and thus lifestyle from thence forth.

 

So...again, in MOST Baptists (esp Southern Baptists or Independent Baptist) churches, you'll meet many like me, who are loving and kind and who'd love to visit with you and have you over and get to be friends, but yet who'd tell you the truth in a spirit of LOVE as to how your claim to be a Christian while holding to views directly opposing to Christian doctrine is a misnomer.

 

In Love,

Mary

Edited October 29, 2010 by MaryElizabeth

[Chris in VA]

(Gently) And then there are those of us who realize every sin is equal in repugnance, that we are works in progress, and that we are called to walk alongside those who are broken and imperfect, as we ourselves are, if not in one area, then in another--that only He is Holy, and we are called righteous only because we are seen by the Father thru the lens of the Son.

[ktgrok]

:iagree:

(Gently) And then there are those of us who realize every sin is equal in repugnance, that we are works in progress, and that we are called to walk alongside those who are broken and imperfect, as we ourselves are, if not in one area, then in another--that only He is Holy, and we are called righteous only because we are seen by the Father thru the lens of the Son.

[ktgrok]

Where in South Florida are you? I was born and raised in south florida, and still visit several times a year. And I'm Episcopalian :)

 

I would try some ECLA church's if you have to. I think Baptist is going to be WAY different than you believe, and you will end up offended by the sermons and upset with what your kids are taught in Sunday School.

 

Also, presbyterian churches are common in Florida, and the PC-USA is pretty liberal....very actually. I attended a large one for quite a while. That would be a LOT closer than Baptist.

[MamaT]

(Gently) And then there are those of us who realize every sin is equal in repugnance, that we are works in progress, and that we are called to walk alongside those who are broken and imperfect, as we ourselves are, if not in one area, then in another--that only He is Holy, and we are called righteous only because we are seen by the Father thru the lens of the Son.

 

:iagree: I just love you Chris.

[kokotg]

Well...MaryElizabeth pretty much summed up most of the problems I have with the kind of Baptist churches I grew up in. I won't get into it in more detail than to say that it's my very firm belief that no one but Jesus has any business telling anyone they're not really a Christian, and that the us vs. them mentality at the churches I went to growing up is exactly what turned me away from church at all for a long time.

[unsinkable]

As a southerner who's grown up in only Baptist church, here's my post-midnight-exhausted-but-can't-sleep-thanks-to-too-lately-ingested-caffeine response FWIW:

 

southerners in general are much more conservative and bapists church, esp. southern baptists churches are known for traditionally being very conservative and closely-adhering to Biblical doctrines. Because we adhere to Biblical theology, that means we CANNOT ascent to pro-choice, pro-gay-marriage, etc. That would be an oxymoron to most Baptists.

Abortion and homosexuality, for Christians, are "easy" issues to sort out. They're black and white. The Bible has clear/undeniable stances on both and because the Bible is the truth of God in written form for Christians, then you generally won't find fence-straddlers on these particular issues. The UU church is typified by people who are liberal on such social issues.

 

Now, Baptists are also notoriously friendly people who would LOVE to open up and have you and your family attend church and activities with them. And, if you claimed to be a born again believer and held to such positions, we would have a DUTY to inform you that you are not a born-again Christian as we see it. To say otherwise to you would be an outright lie and denial of our faith. The Bible clearly teaches that homosexuals will not enter the Kingdom of God. Not that a gay person can't repent and turn from this sinful lifestyle and come to Christ, but ---- the Bible clearly teaches that a practicing, unrepentant homosexual is ****ed.

 

If you go to a Baptist church and are told that you are a Christian given your views and that one's beliefs on such issues is neutral, then one of three things is the case:

1. the person is a wuss who is afraid of offending you by telling you otherwise

2. the person is not a Christian his /herself as manifested by not getting his/her beliefs lined up with what the Lord's word teaches on such subjects

3. the person is such a new Christian that he or she doesn't have a clue as to what the Bible teaches about such

 

Now, as a Christian, I have a few non-Christian friends. In fact, I have a good friend who turned from Christ and is now an avowed atheist. She knows that we disagree in this major area, and that my greatest hope is that she come to faith in Christ, but -- until then, I'm not going to not enjoy fellowship and company with her. We have other shared commonalities, but on religious matters, which we can discuss neutrally I might add, we just know we are polar opposites.

 

I don't mind what people share with me about their views on any matter, but once a person's belief is what the Bible states is fruit of a person clearly being outside of Christ, then the Christian has a DUTY to make a statement of truth as to whether that person is in Christ or not. This is not being judgmental; it's simply agreeing with our written authority, namely the Bible on a matter. For example, if my son makes a 64 on math test and his teaching puts an F on his paper, I can't complain that she's being judgmental --- she's simply going by the RULES of examining. The Bible gives us clear parameters for looking at "FRUIT" (the natural outcome) of being a Christian. If an apple tree, has an orange on it, it's not judgmental to say that they two don't go together. For a Christian, to say that a Christian (tree) CAN (is able) to bear the fruit of affirming homosexuality is just a misnomer. It's like the magazine editor of Sports Illustrated Swimsuit magazine saying on phone to a person wanting to apply, "Sure, send in your application and you're weighing 278 lbs doesn't disqualify you in the least." Sounds nice, but still its misinformation.

 

So, I hope you go to that church and meet a slew of good friends and I hope you and your family continues to go. But I hope and pray that if and when your stance on such issues comes up that they won't LIE to you and say that you can be a Christian and believe that way as, according to our views from Scripture, the two claims are oil and water.

 

If I claimed to be an Olympic swimmer and that I was going head to head with Michael Phelps every week in training and you're looking at me and I weigh 400 lbs (to use the physical analogy), then you're not being judgmental to just not offer any affirmation.

 

So, if you want a church that will let you claim both -- that you're a born-again Christian and that you hold to those views, then you'll likely be disappointed in the VAST majority of Baptist churches. If you want that (in my view false) affirmation, then the UU church will tell you that Jesus was only about loving everyone where they are and they'll just encourage you to build houses for the homeless and keep the food pantry stocked and they'll leave off the BULK of Scripture that teaches about the wrath of God for sin and how He sent his Son to atone for it and how HE takes the ignoring of Christ's sin offering ****ingly serious and that he requires repentance and a change of heart and thus lifestyle from thence forth.

 

So...again, in MOST Baptists (esp Southern Baptists or Independent Baptist) churches, you'll meet many like me, who are loving and kind and who'd love to visit with you and have you over and get to be friends, but yet who'd tell you the truth in a spirit of LOVE as to how your claim to be a Christian while holding to views directly opposing to Christian doctrine is a misnomer.

 

In Love,

Mary

 

Welcome to the boards.

 

In my faith tradition we try to live the Corporal and Spiritual Works of Mercy. I think it is a great thing! I am not God, but if that is *all* you do as a Christian, I think you'd be a candidate for sainthood. Living the works of mercy is a wonderful, difficult thing.

 

The Works of Mercy

 

The Corporal Works of Mercy

To feed the hungry

To give drink to the thirsty.

To clothe the naked.

To visit and ransom the captives.

To shelter the homeless.

To visit the sick.

To bury the dead.

 

The Spiritual Works of Mercy

To admonish sinners.

To instruct the ignorant.

To counsel the doubtful.

To comfort the sorrowful.

To bear wrongs patiently.

To forgive all injuries.

To pray for the living and the dead.

Edited October 29, 2010 by unsinkable

[patchfire]

Well...MaryElizabeth pretty much summed up most of the problems I have with the kind of Baptist churches I grew up in. I won't get into it in more detail than to say that it's my very firm belief that no one but Jesus has any business telling anyone they're not really a Christian, and that the us vs. them mentality at the churches I went to growing up is exactly what turned me away from church at all for a long time.

 

Yep. There's a reason I don't ID as Christian - too many Christians around me are eager to tell me I'm not.

[ourjourneys]

:iagree:

Yep. There's a reason I don't ID as Christian - too many Christians around me are eager to tell me I'm not.

[mhg]

I agree with Mary's post.

Edited October 29, 2010 by mhg

[patchfire]

every lifestyle (gays, pedaphiles, etc.)

 

Please tell me you are not equating someone being gay with someone being a pedophile.

 

Again, I'd encourage any and all of us to thoroughly read John MacArthur's book that deals with just this idea that is quite pervasion among professing Christians.

 

I prefer to read the Bible and study it myself, strangely, as that is how my Southern Baptist churches encouraged all members to grow in their faith and grow closer to God. While I am thankful for various books that I have read over the years, I strongly believe that ultimately we should not look to man.

[MaryElizabeth]

I realize what I wrote wouldn't be popular. Not that any of you want to read it, but a good book summarizing what I'm getting at is called THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO JESUS by John MacArthur. I certainly realize my being a chief of sinners, but there are some sinful LIFESTYLES that are clearly condemned by GOD (not by me) in Scripture, so my agreeing with God's already-declared judgment on such is not being judgmental. I re-read my post and I'd have written the same (maybe with a few less typos/grammar errors) today without the caffeine.

 

To answer the OP's question, it sounds like you're looking for a church with a particular ANTHROPOLOGY (what they believe about the nature of man). And, UU and some Methodist churches hold to a "higher" view of man (man's basically good; no one's going to hell; we're all OK where we are, every lifestyle (gays, pedaphiles, etc.) should be well-received and fellowshipped with as if their sins are the same as my letting a cuss word slip with a hammer to the thumb.

 

For me to say to a gay woman/man that they are Christians would be to deny my faith and I can't do this. I love them too much to deceive them when the stakes are too high.

 

What's interesting to me is that anyone who READ the Bible would see that Jesus had far more statements of warning to people about missing his gospel than he did of affirming them where they were. But, most folks would rather see him as the Santa-Jesus. Again, I'd encourage any and all of us to thoroughly read John MacArthur's book that deals with just this idea that is quite pervasion among

professing Christians.

 

To add to this, the book (MacArthur) is about the gospel ACCORDING to Jesus himself. It is not the slant of ANY denomination. Which is why I recommend it. It is denominationally NEUTRAL yet it teaches how Christ himself defines His people.

Edited October 29, 2010 by MaryElizabeth
Added something

[Halftime Hope]

I realize what I wrote wouldn't be popular. Not that any of you want to read it,

 

I don't know if I am putting this together correctly, but mhg, it sounds as if you are claiming to write the post written by MaryElizabeth. If so, may I make you aware of a long-standing policy on these boards:

 

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Several other posters were very gentle in disagreeing with your post, assuming that you were new here (22 posts), but if I am piecing this together correctly, you have over 200 on your other ID.

 

 

My two cents: I am 6 years a Southern Baptist, with 3 generations of Southern Baptist pastors on my mom's side. I have never heard of the tenet that any believer has the authority to call someone "unsaved" for taking a pro-abortion or pro-gay stance, or for any other sin, for that matter. That person might certainly be asked about their beliefs if it comes up in discussion, but it is Jesus who will judge when we stand before him. A practicing sinner, any kind of sin, might be confronted by spiritual leaders within the church and asked to turn from their sin, and if they were unrepentant and persisted in living out their sin, they might be asked to remove themselves from the fellowship of the church, but I don't see anywhere in Scripture that tells us to judge someone else's salvation.

 

Please know that as a practicing Baptist, I reject the idea that it is my duty to judge another person's heart or their salvation.

Edited October 29, 2010 by Valerie(TX)

[Avila]

OK, are MaryElizabeth and MHG the same person or what? You said the same thing, word for word, which is more than a little suspicious to me ...

 

To the OP, I don't think your beliefs would go over well at a Baptist church. Just look at the MaryElizabeth post for the reason why that might be. ;)

 

I would hate to see you go somewhere for fellowship and to make friends and end up shunned or as some kind of missionary project.

[MaryElizabeth]

I don't know if I am putting this together correctly, but mhg, it sounds as if you are claiming to write the post written by MaryElizabeth. If so, may I make you aware of a long-standing policy on these boards:

 

<<Duplicate accounts warning

We've noticed some people are creating duplicate accounts. Misrepresenting yourself here is not okay. Those users found to have duplicate accounts will be banned. Email admin to request your duplicate accounts be merged so you can continue to participate in our community. >>

 

Several other posters were very gentle in disagreeing with your post, assuming that you were new here (22 posts), but if I am piecing this together correctly, you have over 200 on your other ID.

 

 

My two cents: I am 6 years a Southern Baptist, with 3 generations of Southern Baptist pastors on my mom's side. I have never heard of the tenet that any believer has the authority to call someone "unsaved" for taking a pro-abortion or pro-gay stance, or for any other sin, for that matter. That person might certainly be asked about their beliefs if it comes up in discussion, but it is Jesus who will judge when we stand before him. A practicing sinner, any kind of sin, might be confronted by spiritual leaders within the church and asked to turn from their sin, and if they were unrepentant and persisted in living out their sin, they might be asked to remove themselves from the fellowship of the church, but I don't see anywhere in Scripture that tells us to judge someone else's salvation.

 

Please know that as a practicing Baptist, I reject the idea that it is my duty to judge another person's heart or their salvation.

 

 

admin

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No my friend mhg was over reading this post as I asked her to and she logged on to post about another thread. When she got through I got on to post on this thread and realized it posted under her name, so we got it fixed to post on my name and she simply wrote that she agreed with my stance.

[Halftime Hope]

No my friend mhg was over reading this post as I asked her to and she logged on to post about another thread. When she got through I got on to post on this thread and realized it posted under her name, so we got it fixed to post on my name and she simply wrote that she agreed with my stance.

 

gotcha.

 

I cleaned up the accidental double cut and paste in my post. Sorry for that.

 

BTW, I am finished posting on this thread. :)

[GWOB]

(Gently) And then there are those of us who realize every sin is equal in repugnance, that we are works in progress, and that we are called to walk alongside those who are broken and imperfect, as we ourselves are, if not in one area, then in another--that only He is Holy, and we are called righteous only because we are seen by the Father thru the lens of the Son.

 

Well...MaryElizabeth pretty much summed up most of the problems I have with the kind of Baptist churches I grew up in. I won't get into it in more detail than to say that it's my very firm belief that no one but Jesus has any business telling anyone they're not really a Christian, and that the us vs. them mentality at the churches I went to growing up is exactly what turned me away from church at all for a long time.

 

:iagree:

 

OP, I don't know that a Baptist church would be a good fit for you. I was raised in the Baptist church, attending both Independent Fundamental and Southern Baptist congregations. Things are VERY black and white, open only to the interpretation of the Pastor-du-jour. While I have met many wonderful Baptist Christians, the church as a whole has left a bad taste in my mouth. We are currently attending an LCMS (Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod) church. While this branch of the Lutheran church is a bit more conservative than I would prefer, it is a good fit for the time. If you like the ritual and tradition of the Episcopal church, the ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church of or in America) may work for you. Just last year they voted to allow openly gay clergy members as long as they were in committed, monogamous relationships.

[freethinkermama]

I realize what I wrote wouldn't be popular. Not that any of you want to read it, but a good book summarizing what I'm getting at is called THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO JESUS by John MacArthur. I certainly realize my being a chief of sinners, but there are some sinful LIFESTYLES that are clearly condemned by GOD (not by me) in Scripture, so my agreeing with God's already-declared judgment on such is not being judgmental. I re-read my post and I'd have written the same (maybe with a few less typos/grammar errors) today without the caffeine.

 

.

 

Charming :)

 

But, then again, I agree with you, too. I was a firm Bible-believer, everything in it was from God. And the Bible does condemn gays. And also contains all kinds of other nasty stuff. That's why, I finally gave up on it. I had too hard a time explaning the evil stuff in it with reason and love. When my 6-year old (who was reading a youth Bible) wanted to know why a woman who was raped was required to be married to her rapist. . .well, let's just say that was the beginning of the end. (I'm not exaggerating. Though my daughter didn't exactly understand what rape was in the most stringent detail, she understood it well enough to realize this was a terrible thing.)

 

I've got to tip my hat, in a way, to Christians who are able to make the most and bring out the best in the Bible, ignoring the nasty bits and reconciling these icky areas with their faith. I think that speaks a lot to their better nature.

 

For me, it was too much to swallow that a loving god condemned good (consentual love) and elevated evil (genocide and rape).

 

T.

[smrtmama]

Well...MaryElizabeth pretty much summed up most of the problems I have with the kind of Baptist churches I grew up in. I won't get into it in more detail than to say that it's my very firm belief that no one but Jesus has any business telling anyone they're not really a Christian, and that the us vs. them mentality at the churches I went to growing up is exactly what turned me away from church at all for a long time.

 

That's actually my biggest problem with Christianity in GENERAL right there.

 

For me to say to a gay woman/man that they are Christians would be to deny my faith and I can't do this. I love them too much to deceive them when the stakes are too high.

 

And that's another of my biggest problems. If that statement is an accurate representation of Christianity, it's enough to ensure I'd never set foot in a Christian church, donate to a Christian charity, or frankly, have a Christian in my home, because that statement is disgusting and repugnant. Equating gay people with pedophiles is repugnant. Your entire post, in fact, disgusted and appalled me. Thank GOD most Christians aren't like that, but you're painting a sorry picture.

Edited October 29, 2010 by smrtmama

[catz]

Equating gay people with pedophiles is repugnant.

 

:iagree:

 

We attend a UU church. And no we do not condone pedophiles. I think generally we hope people with mental illness are allowed treatment. From prison. I am close to several lesbian families raising children. A couple are even homeschooling. They have happy, healthy children. Enough said.

 

I've got to tip my hat, in a way, to Christians who are able to make the most and bring out the best in the Bible, ignoring the nasty bits and reconciling these icky areas with their faith. I think that speaks a lot to their better nature.

 

For me, it was too much to swallow that a loving god condemned good (consentual love) and elevated evil (genocide and rape).

 

T.

 

:iagree:

[Mejane]

 

The Bible clearly teaches that homosexuals will not enter the Kingdom of God. Not that a gay person can't repent and turn from this sinful lifestyle and come to Christ, but ---- the Bible clearly teaches that a practicing, unrepentant homosexual is ****ed.

 

 

 

Only if you squint very hard and look at it from just the right angle. ;)

Edited October 29, 2010 by Mejane

[Old Dominion Heather]

Yep. Just agreeing with Cadam.

[Heather in WI]

Any old timers having flashbacks.....?

 

YES!!!!

[Veritaserum]

Equating gay people with pedophiles is repugnant.

 

:iagree: :glare:

 

Baptists vary, but most of the ones I've met have been in the anti-Halloween/anti-Harry Potter/anti-gay/very-narrow-definition-of-what-makes-a-"real"-Christian camp. MIL's aunts are Baptists. They are only tolerant of our faith because in the 40 years since my MIL converted they've realized that their church's teachings about ours are not wholly accurate. They have a great sense of community in their Baptist church, though.