Crying boys?

[JennyD]

 

But I don't think you are weird to think it was good to say, "Get over it, move on." I do think it's a little weird to attribute so much significance to a boy getting upset. It's probably not about all the ills of society and child raising and what is wrong with kids today.... I think the more matter of fact and direct adults can be, the better. I do think they need to learn to harness their emotions and learn not to cry or carry on. But it will happen.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

As a lifelong Weepy McWeepypants, I have no doubt that I bugged the heck out of my parents, teachers, etc. with my endless tears as a child. Like everyone else, as I got older I worked hard on "getting a grip" on myself (as my father used to urge me to do) and no longer embarrass myself with public crying.

 

That said, from a matter of first principles I still think it's rather inane that public crying is so socially unacceptable. As opposed to say, public drinking and smoking.

 

But there is definitely something about crying, especially when boys and men cry, that sets people off. I remember years ago reading one of Robert Bork's books -- Slouching Towards Gomorrah, I think -- and he had a footnote somewhere about how a therapist had told him that contemporary men cried more easily than men of previous generations, which he cited as obvious evidence that modern men had been degraded by women. And I was like, really? That's the best you can do? Crying?

[annandatje]

I find nothing wrong with the coach's admonition to the boy.

[mommyofthree]

:lol:My dc were watching Sesame Street when they were little. I believe Elmo was singing something about "It's alright to cry." I turned the tv off and told my dc that it was NOT alright to cry. They are allowed to cry when they are bleeding or seriously hurt. So sorry, Elmo. I don't have time for 4 kids to be bawling every time they feel slighted.

 

Man up. Girls too.

 

I am not military, but I am not a normal mom either.:lol:

 

:iagree::iagree:

[Ginevra]

I'm more of the "man up" POV. I've seen a lot of sports-related-tears; my son wrestled for two years. ;) (Wrestling moms will know what I mean.) Personally, daughter or son, I want my kids to learn to control their emotions. I'm not in favor of unabated crying, just because there's a disappointment or stressful situation happening. When my son was wrestling, I often let dad give the "man up" form of support/advice to help the emotion pass. My mommy-desire is to scoop up my kid and commiserate with him. But my husband is the great athlete and has been through all the lessons in personal strength that athletics can impart; he's the better instructor in getting over a failure. That actually is one of the values of athletics: imparting lessons in losing without losing your head and winning without letting it go to your head.

[Parrothead]

:iagree:

 

I was just reading a friend's FB posting. She said she went into bosses office and CRIED for 3 hours! I don't think she will get employee of the month anytime soon...

 

BTW' date=' anger is an emotion. Is it okay to express that in the workplace/sports arena too?[/quote']

3 hours?! IMHO that is a bit indulgent. I can not imagine that any job I've ever had would allow me a three hour crying jag.

 

I might have been able to call the first 30 minutes my lunch break, but after that I'd've been called to the carpet for being back from lunch late.

 

And now "just" being a SAHM I can only imagine what I'd be greeted with when I came out of my room after a 3 hour cry.

 

Who's got time for that?

[Parrothead]

I 100% agree. The notion that women aren't advancing because they are female is a joke. If anything there are corporate incentives to highering a woman over a man.

:iagree:Me too. It sounds like the party line from the 70s.

[fairfarmhand]

There are many men and some women in jobs where, if they had empathy, they couldnt do them.

 

 

I am very thankful that police officers, EMT's doctors, nurses, soldiers, etc. can shelve their empathy for a bit while tending to the task at hand. I would not have wanted my doctor bursting into tears while tending me during my miscarriage.

 

Incidentally, I saw my OB doctor immediately after she had just given another couple some bad news. She was a bit teary, but as she told me "there are days it's hard and there are other days it's great." And she was able to go on with my appointment as scheduled.

[Impish]

What this reminds me of is when my kids were toddlers.

 

When they fell, if you made a big deal out of it, they'd shriek like banshees. If you simply said, "Whoops! Up you get!" they'd pick themselves up and run off to whatever caught their fancy next.

 

To me, that's what the coach was doing. And, he was absolutely right for telling the boy that it wasn't the ump's fault. Blaming others for personal mistakes is one of the biggest problems I see in today's society. If you doubt it, look at pretty much any criminal court case.

 

On another note:

 

Gf of mine, when she was first married...her dh, whenever they argued would make a comment about PMS. This stopped stone cold dead the day she snapped back at him, "My period is 3 wks away and you're still an a**!"

 

Diva has been dealing with PMS for almost a year now. She's 11, 12 next month.

 

As her mother, one of the things that I've been teaching her is that just because she's hormonal does not give her the right to treat other people like crap. She'll be dealing with PMS for the next 30, 40 yrs, perhaps more. Coddling her, enabling her, would do her a grave disservice, even though she is *only* 11. Yes, she's loved and knows it. She's hugged and cuddled, etc. But not when she's being nasty because of hormones. We've had discussions (once she's got herself behaving) about PMS, that it can be a challenge, etc, but that its part of being female. A uterus does not give someone carte blanche to treat the world like dirt every month.

[fairfarmhand]

 

Gf of mine, when she was first married...her dh, whenever they argued would make a comment about PMS. This stopped stone cold dead the day she snapped back at him, "My period is 3 wks away and you're still an a**!"

 

Diva has been dealing with PMS for almost a year now. She's 11, 12 next month.

 

As her mother, one of the things that I've been teaching her is that just because she's hormonal does not give her the right to treat other people like crap. She'll be dealing with PMS for the next 30, 40 yrs, perhaps more. Coddling her, enabling her, would do her a grave disservice, even though she is *only* 11. Yes, she's loved and knows it. She's hugged and cuddled, etc. But not when she's being nasty because of hormones. We've had discussions (once she's got herself behaving) about PMS, that it can be a challenge, etc, but that its part of being female. A uterus does not give someone carte blanche to treat the world like dirt every month.

 

 

I totally get annoyed that one might think that anytime a woman has a strong opinion or possibly a legitimate grip that it "must be that time of the month".

 

Sometimes that is the case. But sometimes I get righteously angry because some things are worth getting angry about!

[CAMom]

I don't have kids in athletics but my kids to compete in speech and debate.

 

I was the athlete playing basketball in high school, on an international team and at the community college level.

 

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with what was said to the ball player. One angle I haven't seen addressed is what impact this sort of melodrama (and, yes, I do think crying for 5 minutes after a strike out is melodramatic) will have on the team for the rest of that game and future games.

 

If the umps see this type of thing, it can certainly affect their attitude towards the team for the rest of the game as well as the rest of the season if they ump for that team again or if they relate the story to other umps in the league.

 

In my early competitive years, I was one for arguing with calls and received plenty of lectures from my coaches and teammates.:)

[Impish]

I totally get annoyed that one might think that anytime a woman has a strong opinion or possibly a legitimate grip that it "must be that time of the month".

 

Sometimes that is the case. But sometimes I get righteously angry because some things are worth getting angry about!

Yup. However the difference is knowing which is which, and dealing with it appropriately. Going nuclear on the world at large every 28 days is completely unacceptable. Going nuclear at all isn't usually acceptable, as its just out of control. Being angry but controlled

(the angrier I am, the quieter I tend to get...plus my eyes actually change colour. Seriously. And no, they don't go red ;)) is what produces results, and is something that all kids should be taught. Emotional control.

 

I'm *not* saying kids should be robots. But by the time they're starting their first job (around here, thats 14-15) they need to be able to handle themselves so that they're not bursting into tears or hucking napkin dispensers if they encounter a nasty customer.

[LostSurprise]

I'm not an emotional person and I wasn't raised an emotional family. My mother is not very emotional and my father is from the west side of Chicago, definitely the 'man up' type.

 

My closest brother was a very emotional child. Not in a manipulative way. He was always embarrassed by it, but he was a perfectionist...very deep feeling and deep thinking. If he felt hurt, it came out despite what others said. He wasn't stupid. He knew if he cried he would be commented on, told to 'man up,' laughed at, bullied, etc. At that time (2-13) it was not always controllable.

 

Men like my father and the coach in the first thread, women like my brother's 5th grade teacher who made fun of him in front of the class are what caused my brother to not just learn to control his emotion but to refuse to have ANY emotion. About anything. He doesn't trust anyone with anything deep...including his family. He's divorced because he can't let go and show how he feels.

 

Fast forward. I have 4 boys. My second son (10) is just like my brother. He is extremely emotional. When he is upset it all comes out. The anger. The sorrow. Everything. He is still working on holding it back.

 

He does not want to be this way. My husband and I are working hard on helping him connect with socially acceptable ways to deal with his emotions. He walks. He runs. He beats on the punching bag. He lays on his bed and yells into the pillow. It's a process.

 

So no, I wouldn't appreciate what the asst. coach did in the first post. Nor would I appreciate a 5 minute pity party (although I would appreciate the attempt to help him work through emotion rather than tell him he's a wuss). Emotional kids need their emotions verified ('that's tough' 'man, that's so disappointing!' 'I bet that hurts' 'I can see that you're angry'), then they may need some direction ('why don't you go get a drink of water and take a walk around the field' 'would you like to take a break?' 'can you pack the equipment for me?'), and some time to work through the feelings. Some kids like to do that in private, some with friends.

 

No one needs to be told that the way they feel or the fact or that they can't control those feelings is less-than-masculine. Period. A coach's job is to help kids learn and grow. That means encouraging them and pointing them toward a better way, not judging them and then trying to embarrass them into more comfortable behavior.

[Slartibartfast]

I think your dh was mean, and his comments were uncalled-for. The other kids were doing something nice, trying to console their teammate, and somehow you see that as a bad thing? How is kindness a bad thing?

 

I'm not saying that I think most 11 or 12 year-old boys should cry because they strike out once in baseball, but I also don't think it's a coach's place to tell them to "man up" if they do. Maybe the poor kid was already upset about something else, and striking out was just the last straw for him. Whatever the case, apparently his teammates didn't treat him like a baby for it, but your dh certainly did.

 

Crying is not such a terrible thing.

 

Cat

 

I agree, your dh was mean.

 

one has no idea what was really going on there, he might have been tired or hadn't eaten in awhile or maybe it had just been a long day. People can be disappointed and be given a bit of time to deal with that.

 

I don't think people should be crying ALL the time and eventually it would get old but I would be hacked if some coach told my kid to "man up" without even checking on him first.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Sis

[Slartibartfast]

Ok I don't think one can compare crying to vomiting. If someone else vomits I would also vomit.

 

If someone was sad I would console them. It doesn't cause me to lose my meal. Bleh.

[Impish]

I don't understand why it was mean. Truly.

 

Its not like he taunted the kid, called him names. I really don't see how this is hugely different from, "Ok, that's enough Buddy. Lets move on." Perhaps because I've known my dh and other guys to say similar, and its not a put down (nor taken as one) just a way of stopping things from going over the top?

 

Its completely different when a kid is physically injured, or really emotionally hurting. I'm trusting that the OP's dh can tell the difference btwn a kid that's being overly dramatic and blaming the ump rather than a kid whose self worth has taken a blow.

 

If anyone is going to play sports, they need to learn how to deal with umps/refs/judges they disagree with at some point.

[Slartibartfast]

I would have sent him to wash his face and collect himself but I wouldn't have told him to man-up and I would have pulled him aside from the other kids

 

Dh and I are always telling dd to "put some dirt on it and get back in there" but if she is upset she is given a moment to deal with that. I agree with stopping the pity party but not what he said.

[Crissy]

I don't understand why it was mean. Truly.

 

 

I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say the Asst. Coach was mean, but I do think the situation could have been handled differently.

My main concern is that he's dealing with someone else's kid. Telling another person's child that he isn't being a big enough man is not appropriate.

 

I also think the assumption (noted in other posts) that this boy cries over everything is quite a leap.

My younger son plays in Little League. He pitched poorly in a game last spring and cried over it. He sat at the far end of the bench in the dugout and tried to get himself together, but it took him some time. He sat out the next inning.

Anyone in the bleachers might have thought he was a big baby, that he was under too much pressure from his parents and coaches, or some such.

It turned out (he told us later) that one of his friends from the other team made some comment about his abilities and he was embarrased.

I think the expectation that a 12 year old boy should have complete control over his emotions is too much to ask.

[Impish]

I wonder if kids find such expressions as "man up" to be as weighted as adults do? Until now, I never thought of it being as offensive as others in this thread do. Just wouldn't occur to me. I've heard it used, have 3 brothers, and it honestly never upset anyone.

[Jean in Newcastle]

If you look at the OP it says that her dh went over and "pretty much told him to man up and get over it." That is a general statement that could be interpreted widely. I'm assuming from the fact that the boy responded by stopping the crying, that it wasn't mean or offensive to the boy. And isn't that what is important here - how the boy interpreted it?

[Oak Knoll Mom]

I would have sent him to wash his face and collect himself but I wouldn't have told him to man-up and I would have pulled him aside from the other kids

 

(I've seen this sentiment expressed several times in this thread, so this is not directed specifically at you, Sis.)

 

This is not always feasible during the middle of a baseball game. Sometimes the bathroom is just too far away. Sometimes there is nowhere to go privately. Sometimes the coach can't speak to a kid off privately because he's the base coach and has runners who are depending on him to get them to home plate safely. Sometimes a kid just has to get over it.

 

 

And here is where I get on my soapbox:

 

I think people need to stop saying the OP's husband is mean because--bottom line--we weren't there. We don't know this kid's history, we don't know how disruptive this crying was for the team, we don't know exactly what the coach said and in what tone of voice, we don't know if any of the other kids heard him tell the boy to knock it off. We just don't know.

[Mrs Mungo]

If you look at the OP it says that her dh went over and "pretty much told him to man up and get over it." That is a general statement that could be interpreted widely. I'm assuming from the fact that the boy responded by stopping the crying, that it wasn't mean or offensive to the boy. And isn't that what is important here - how the boy interpreted it?

 

I have to agree with the poster who said people were responding as much to the OP's attitude in her initial post as anything else.

[Slartibartfast]

(I've seen this sentiment expressed several times in this thread, so this is not directed specifically at you, Sis.)

 

This is not always feasible during the middle of a baseball game. Sometimes the bathroom is just too far away. Sometimes there is nowhere to go privately. Sometimes the coach can't speak to a kid off privately because he's the base coach and has runners who are depending on him to get them to home plate safely. Sometimes a kid just has to get over it.

 

 

And here is where I get on my soapbox:

 

I think people need to stop saying the OP's husband is mean because--bottom line--we weren't there. We don't know this kid's history, we don't know how disruptive this crying was for the team, we don't know exactly what the coach said and in what tone of voice, we don't know if any of the other kids heard him tell the boy to knock it off. We just don't know.

 

I've been in sports and other activities. One can be given a moment alone.

 

If we don't know and can't possibly make any sort of jugement call then why even post it to begin with? She didn't reveal anything about the child other than he is generally upbeat so why would I assume he is a drama queen when that wasn't stated?

[Impish]

I have to agree with the poster who said people were responding as much to the OP's attitude in her initial post as anything else.

I guess I'm reading the attitude as the crying was over the top attention seeking. I don't know about anyone else, and I might be totally off, but I've found that the crying of 'hurt' and 'give me attention' pings very differently on Mom radar. Dad radar too, since Wolf can also tell the difference. From the OP I'm thinking that what started out as one became another, if that makes sense.

 

And again, here the expression used wouldn't have dawned on me to think twice about.

[Oak Knoll Mom]

If we don't know and can't possibly make any sort of jugement call then why even post it to begin with?

 

Her post was wondering if it was normal for a boy to cry at something like a strikeout, not whether or not her husband handled it appropriately. Sure, she opened the door when she mentioned how her DH handled it, but I think as a whole we are above saying, "Your DH is mean."

 

From Cricket's original post:

I guess it was so weird to me to see this kid cry over this. He hasn't been the only one either. A few of the boys have cried over striking out or getting out. It's almost like kids today are trying to find reasons to be emotional and dramatic. Maybe I'm the weird one for thinking this is strange?

[Peela]

I am very thankful that police officers, EMT's doctors, nurses, soldiers, etc. can shelve their empathy for a bit while tending to the task at hand. I would not have wanted my doctor bursting into tears while tending me during my miscarriage.

 

Incidentally, I saw my OB doctor immediately after she had just given another couple some bad news. She was a bit teary, but as she told me "there are days it's hard and there are other days it's great." And she was able to go on with my appointment as scheduled.

 

empathy: understanding and entering into another's feelings

 

Not, falling apart and bursting into tears at another's suffering, but being able to empathise...to understand what they are feeling, because we are not so hard hearted and cut off from ourselves that we cannot. It does not mean we collapse in an emotional heap...but in order for kids to develop their sense of empathy- compassion for themselves and their fellow man, which surely is what love is all about- they need to be empathised with.

I woudl prefer a doctor or nurse, or police officer for that matter, who can empathise, compared to one who cannot, anyday. But obviously, not one who cant function because their emotions overwhelm them. Someone who is grounded and has a highly developed sense of empathy is often mature and able to handle their emotions more than someone who opens the floodgates every now and then ad keeps them tightly shut the rest of the time.

 

 

For anyone interested here is an interesting little You Tube on the development of empathy in humans over the centuries, and the absolute importance of empathy for us to continue. Probably not for the most conservative Creationist Christians among us.

[Slartibartfast]

Her post was wondering if it was normal for a boy to cry at something like a strikeout, not whether or not her husband handled it appropriately. Sure, she opened the door when she mentioned how her DH handled it, but I think as a whole we are above saying, "Your DH is mean."

 

From Cricket's original post:

 

From my initial post on this thread

 

 

I agree, your dh was mean.

 

one has no idea what was really going on there, he might have been tired or hadn't eaten in awhile or maybe it had just been a long day. People can be disappointed and be given a bit of time to deal with that.

 

I don't think people should be crying ALL the time and eventually it would get old but I would be hacked if some coach told my kid to "man up" without even checking on him first.

 

 

No, I don't think it is abnormal. We have no idea what was going on. There are many things which could lead to someone being more upset.

 

I don't just presume because a child is crying that he is being a sissy, a drama queen, a big baby or wanting to host a pity party and is giving away tupperware door prizes. I tend to think there is more to it than that just as if I randomly started crying because my chicken burned because I had a horrid day. If my husband told me to "man up" when I was upset then I would be angry.

 

I do think children are people and being upset doesn't necessarily mean they are being weak or manipulative. I do figure they have emotions just like mine and that there may be more to it than what is immediately perceived.

[Cricket]

(I've seen this sentiment expressed several times in this thread, so this is not directed specifically at you, Sis.)

 

This is not always feasible during the middle of a baseball game. Sometimes the bathroom is just too far away. Sometimes there is nowhere to go privately. Sometimes the coach can't speak to a kid off privately because he's the base coach and has runners who are depending on him to get them to home plate safely. Sometimes a kid just has to get over it.

 

 

And here is where I get on my soapbox:

 

I think people need to stop saying the OP's husband is mean because--bottom line--we weren't there. We don't know this kid's history, we don't know how disruptive this crying was for the team, we don't know exactly what the coach said and in what tone of voice, we don't know if any of the other kids heard him tell the boy to knock it off. We just don't know.

 

It doesn't bother me if people say he was mean. I doubt that if anyone here was actually there and heard what dh said they would have taken offense. I probably would have left out the whole "man up" part if I knew it would cause such uproar. :) Personally, I don't see that as a put down but rather a reminder that, hey, let's be a little more grown up about this. Just for the record, the only other person there was the head coach. All the other boys had taken their field positions already. I only happened to notice what was happening because I sit right next to the dugout so I can update the coaches on pitch counts. And I still think the whole situation was bizarre. I believe this kid was using crying as some kind of tool and not as a genuine response to hurt feelings. (I've seen enough crying kids in my lifetime! :)) *That* is what I found strange, not the idea of hurt feelings.

[Nestof3]

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

 

We also don't know what else went wrong that day. Sometimes it just piles on. I also believe hormones affect teens' moods. I hate the "man up" thing. Yes, I think boys need to learn to control their emotions as do girls, but I don't think people should teach boys that they shouldn't cry. But, 12 years old to me is still an age which requires guidance in these things for certain kids. I am sure that he will eventually learn better social composure and learn to keep the crying in private.

 

 

I think crying is a normal reaction to disappointment or frustration, even in boys.

 

I think it's great that his friends tried to encourage him instead of making fun of him.

 

I also think it's appropriate for an adult to say (in essence) "Enough already, time to move on."

 

The difference between a normal reaction and drama, imo, is whether or not the kid...person of any age, for that matter...is trying to stop on their own or gets sucked into all of the attention, and trying to figure out which it is in any given instance probably started about 5 minutes after the invention of crying.

 

Cat

[unsinkable]

It doesn't bother me if people say he was mean. I doubt that if anyone here was actually there and heard what dh said they would have taken offense. I probably would have left out the whole "man up" part if I knew it would cause such uproar. :) Personally, I don't see that as a put down but rather a reminder that, hey, let's be a little more grown up about this. Just for the record, the only other person there was the head coach. All the other boys had taken their field positions already. I only happened to notice what was happening because I sit right next to the dugout so I can update the coaches on pitch counts. And I still think the whole situation was bizarre. I believe this kid was using crying as some kind of tool and not as a genuine response to hurt feelings. (I've seen enough crying kids in my lifetime! :)) *That* is what I found strange, not the idea of hurt feelings.

 

I love the pitch count clickers! :D

[asta]

Hide me now if you don't want to hear it:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is an entire generation (or two, or three) of whiney beta males being raised right now.

 

There are a lot of excuses being made for them, but at some point in the future, there will be a LOT of people wondering where all of the alphas went, and why all the women seem to be birthing girls.

 

JMO

[Pink Fairy]

Hide me now if you don't want to hear it:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is an entire generation (or two, or three) of whiney beta males being raised right now.

 

There are a lot of excuses being made for them, but at some point in the future, there will be a LOT of people wondering where all of the alphas went, and why all the women seem to be birthing girls.

 

JMO

 

I was thinking the same sort of thing (but lack the guts to post it). Run, Asta, run!

[fairfarmhand]

empathy: understanding and entering into another's feelings

 

Not, falling apart and bursting into tears at another's suffering, but being able to empathise...to understand what they are feeling, because we are not so hard hearted and cut off from ourselves that we cannot. It does not mean we collapse in an emotional heap...but in order for kids to develop their sense of empathy- compassion for themselves and their fellow man, which surely is what love is all about- they need to be empathised with.

I woudl prefer a doctor or nurse, or police officer for that matter, who can empathise, compared to one who cannot, anyday. But obviously, not one who cant function because their emotions overwhelm them. Someone who is grounded and has a highly developed sense of empathy is often mature and able to handle their emotions more than someone who opens the floodgates every now and then ad keeps them tightly shut the rest of the time.

 

 

I do see your point here. Because I do want doctors, nurses and paramedics who can sympathize with the situations that one is facing. Notice I said shelve the empathy..not lack empathy.

 

This is why I am not cut out for this kind of work. I would be dripping all day (not sobbing, falling apart bawling and unable to operate, just teary) and that is really unprofessional.

Edited October 21, 2010 by fairfarmhand

[Embassy]

 

There is an entire generation (or two, or three) of whiney beta males being raised right now.

 

There are a lot of excuses being made for them, but at some point in the future, there will be a LOT of people wondering where all of the alphas went, and why all the women seem to be birthing girls.

 

JMO

 

Maybe you are looking at this backwards. Society today is more accepting of differences so boys and men are not forced to be alpha males if that is not their natural bent. It isn't all nuture. There is much to be said for a child's natural bent. Some boys are more sensitive than others. Society today is more accepting of that and those children will grow up as more sensitive men.

 

The world needs sensitive men too.

[Heather in Neverland]

There is an entire generation (or two, or three) of whiney beta males being raised right now.

 

There are a lot of excuses being made for them, but at some point in the future, there will be a LOT of people wondering where all of the alphas went, and why all the women seem to be birthing girls.

 

JMO

 

um, yup. what she said.

 

I coached competitive all-star cheerleading (the kind you see on ESPN) for 10 years and I told my GIRLS to "man-up". :D My motto was if you aren't bleeding and you don't need a cast, shake it off and do it again. If you screw up, you cry in private. Never let 'em see you sweat. I've had girls screw up and start bawling. I ignore them. I've also had girls finish a routine with blood streaming down their face from a broken nose that happened mid-way through the routine. That girl got all the props in the world. She was a hero to her teammates. The girl who sat there wallowing in self-pity? Her stock dropped big-time in the eyes of her teammates. Guess which one felt more proud of themselves?

 

Slam me if you will but I think her dh did the right thing.

[Spy Car]

Being an "alpha male" and being sensitive (empathetic) are not mutually exclusive categories. Far from it.

 

Being sensitive and being "submissive" are not the same thing.

 

Bill

[fairfarmhand]

Being an "alpha male" and being sensitive (empathetic) are not mutually exclusive categories. Far from it.

 

Being sensitive and being "submissive" are not the same thing.

 

Bill

 

:iagree:

 

and crying or lack of crying proves none of these.

[Murphy101]

I was thinking the same sort of thing (but lack the guts to post it). Run, Asta, run!

:iagree:

 

 

 

Maybe you are looking at this backwards. Society today is more accepting of differences so boys and men are not forced to be alpha males if that is not their natural bent. It isn't all nuture. There is much to be said for a child's natural bent. Some boys are more sensitive than others. Society today is more accepting of that and those children will grow up as more sensitive men.

 

The world needs sensitive men too.

 

Sensitivity has NOTHING to do with crying. A sensitive and mature person is capable having emotions and expressing them in more ways than crying. Children don't have the mature part down yet, so adults help them along.

 

Ime, criers are NOT sensitive at all. They are not sensitive to those around them or the situation or the inappropriateness of their public display. They are rather so self involved in their own feelings that they are insensitive to those

around them.

 

By criers I do not mean people who shed tears in public per se. I mean people who seem to always have emotional drama that they just can't ever seem to get a grip on. The gal who cried for 3 hours at work for example was not being sensitive imnsho.

 

To suggest that men or women who don't regularly cry in public are lacking in sensitivity is an error in judgement. Again imnsho.

[Embassy]

:iagree:

 

 

 

 

 

Sensitivity has NOTHING to do with crying. A sensitive and mature person is capable having emotions and expressing them in more ways than crying. Children don't have the mature part down yet, so adults help them along.

 

Ime, criers are NOT sensitive at all. They are not sensitive to those around them or the situation or the inappropriateness of their public display. They are rather so self involved in their own feelings that they are insensitive to those

around them.

 

By criers I do not mean people who shed tears in public per se. I mean people who seem to always have emotional drama that they just can't ever seem to get a grip on. The gal who cried for 3 hours at work for example was not being sensitive imnsho.

 

To suggest that men or women who don't regularly cry in public are lacking in sensitivity is an error in judgement. Again imnsho.

 

 

Men or women who cry regularly in public wasn't being discussed. I was talking about a child's natural bent. It is more acceptable for a child to be who he was made to be in our society so some children are growing up more expressive of their feelings which may sometimes involve crying. Crying is related to sensitivity because a sensitive person is naturally more emotionally responsive to certain situations.

[asta]

Crying is related to sensitivity because a sensitive person is naturally more emotionally responsive to certain situations.

 

Red herring.

[Embassy]

Red herring.

 

Not a red herring. If the boy in question is by nature a more sensitive person he will be more likely to cry when in an emotionally charged situation. It is more acceptable for a man to be emotionally responsive than it was 40 years ago. I don't think it is because mothers are causing this, but because our society is more accepting of those differences now.

[justamouse]

Being an "alpha male" and being sensitive (empathetic) are not mutually exclusive categories. Far from it.

 

Being sensitive and being "submissive" are not the same thing.

 

Bill

 

 

Brilliantly put.

[Impish]

There is an entire generation (or two, or three) of whiney beta males being raised right now.

 

There are a lot of excuses being made for them, but at some point in the future, there will be a LOT of people wondering where all of the alphas went, and why all the women seem to be birthing girls.

 

JMO

:iagree:

Being an "alpha male" and being sensitive (empathetic) are not mutually exclusive categories. Far from it.

 

Being sensitive and being "submissive" are not the same thing.

 

Bill

:iagree:Wolf is definitely an 'alpha'. When I was dating, it was in my nature to 'test' the guy I was seeing. If he let me walk all over him and then cry about it (yes, it happened), the relationship was over. Wolf, however, raised an eyebrow and called me on it. :001_wub: He also cried at the birth of our kids, and I've caught him crying at movies before. The alpha male can be sensitive...must be, imo. You can't hope to be the head of anything (home, business, apply it as you like) if you can't establish respectful relationships of those around you, and that requires sensitivity.

[pdalley]

:iagree:

 

:iagree:Wolf is definitely an 'alpha'. When I was dating, it was in my nature to 'test' the guy I was seeing. If he let me walk all over him and then cry about it (yes, it happened), the relationship was over. Wolf, however, raised an eyebrow and called me on it. :001_wub: He also cried at the birth of our kids, and I've caught him crying at movies before. The alpha male can be sensitive...must be, imo. You can't hope to be the head of anything (home, business, apply it as you like) if you can't establish respectful relationships of those around you, and that requires sensitivity.

 

 

:iagree:With both Asta and Impish.

[Murphy101]

Not a red herring. If the boy in question is by nature a more sensitive person he will be more likely to cry when in an emotionally charged situation.

 

Again. Error.

 

You presume more sensitive equal more likely to cry.

 

I am actually a very sensitive person. The fact that I don't cry in public, or much at all, has no bearing whatsoever on how sensitive I am.

 

Red herring stands.

[Embassy]

:confused::confused::confused:

 

I must have missed something. Why are many of you talking about submission and being walked on in connection with sensitivity? They aren't related.

[Embassy]

You presume more sensitive equal more likely to cry.

 

 

I agree there are many sensitive people who are not expressive. That doesn't make them less sensitive, but less expressive. However, a sensitive person is more likely to be expressive than a non-sensitive person. Introverted/Extroverted might have a lot to do with it too.

Edited October 21, 2010 by Wehomeschool

[Murphy101]

I agree there are many sensitive people who are not expressive. That doesn't make them less sensitive, but less expressive. However, a sensitive person is more likely to be expressive than a non-sensitive person. Introverted/Extroverted might have a lot to do with it too.

 

 

I disagree. Introverted, extroverted, expressive, and sensitive are all different things.

 

I happen to be very expressive and very sensitive.

 

And I rarely cry, much less in public.

 

Again you are making tears the benchmark, only you switched from sensitivity to expressive.

 

There are plenty of ways for a person to express themselves other than tears.

[Embassy]

I disagree. Introverted, extroverted, expressive, and sensitive are all different things.

 

I happen to be very expressive and very sensitive.

 

And I rarely cry, much less in public.

 

Again you are making tears the benchmark, only you switched from sensitivity to expressive.

 

There are plenty of ways for a person to express themselves other than tears.

 

Of course there are more ways to express oneself than crying. But crying is an expression of emotion which is more commonly seen in children than adults. Some boys are more likely to cry because of their personality differences. However most will probably learn not to cry in public by the time they are adults.

 

What I am understanding here is that most of you believe that a child's reaction to an emotionally charged event is all based on nurture rather than nature - that there are no aspects of the child's personality or individuality that make him more apt to cry than another child.

[Murphy101]

What I am understanding here is that most of you believe that a child's reaction to an emotionally charged event is all based on nurture rather than nature - that there are no aspects of the child's personality or individuality that make him more apt to cry than another child.

 

I have not heard anyone say that.

 

For the most part it is not relevant.

 

Regardless, they should be guided to self-control and appropriateness.

 

Some might be referring to the fact that a refusal to do so is making a lack of self control and inappropriate emotional outburst more tolerated. Guess one could extrapolate that to they are being nurtured into tolerating it rather than guided to self control.

 

I have children who are naturally more inclined to a quick temper than some of my other children. It really doesn't matter though because it is still not appropriate and I'm still going to try to teach them self control. It might always be harder for them, but it will still always be expected of them.

[Joker]

The thing that's bothering me about this thread is it appears some think all crying can be controlled. :001_huh: The only times I've cried in public were not something I could control. I can excuse myself from the situation and get myself back together (something many said would maybe have been more help to the young boy) but I can't just stop. It's not like I'm choosing to cry - I just am.