Another study that says vaccines do NOT cause autism...

[Heather in Neverland]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100913/hl_nm/us_mercury_autism

 

Sounds legit but how do you know what to believe any more? All my kids are vaxed and no problems but my BFF will go to her grave swearing it caused the autism in her ds. I don't think I trust the media one way or the other...

[TravelingChris]

It isn't a matter of trusting the media. It is a matter of looking at the studies. No studies have found any link between autism and vaccines. There have been many. The one study that purported the link only had 14 kids in it and has been discredited.

 

What I found fascinating was that the latest study found a small correlation with vaccination and less chances of autism. This study also looked at whether amounts of vaccine given at one time had any correlation with autism- they didn't.

 

Researchers are thinking that genetics has a lot to do with it and I think in the next few years, we will be finding out what are the markers. There are lots of diseases that they are searching for markers so I guess it takes time.

[ma23peas]

My theory...completely at a pre-theory level and probably impossible to prove...but three of the highest levels of autism occur in LA/Seattle/and believe it or not Huntsville, AL...what could contribute to these areas having high amounts?

 

My idea is drugs....prescription drugs...the amount of rx drugs has risen exponentially in the past 40 years....by products of these get 'wasted' into our water treatment systems..which I believe are not able to filter them out...they get sent out into our irrigation systems....those three areas probably have some of the higher concentrations of prescription users...LA...well, really no need to explain further, Seattle...one of the highest depression areas in the country and Huntsville with one of the highest retirement communities but also mixed with a lot of young families....you don't see it in areas with higher concentrations of retirement families because generally there are not as many young families in those areas...but my guess is that if you looked at the top 10 areas for autism you'll find similar connections...

 

I do believe the shots had something to do with a case with our son...he was speaking 20-30 words at age 2...the night he got the shot he began running a 102-103 fever that lasted 2 days...he did not speak ONE word again until he was 3.5...so something is correlated there, but he is not autistic or suffers from other learning issues...he's fine now, but gave us a scare....

 

Tara

[TravelingChris]

Actually the areas with high amounts of autism are SF/SJ CA area, Seattle, LA (I wouldn't be surprised) Huntsville= I would bet other high areas are Raleigh/Durham area NC, Los Alamos, NM; Boston suburb area, ALbuquerque, NM, and some other places. What is the correlation - high tech areas where lots of science, math, engineering people live.

[Donna A.]

Actually the areas with high amounts of autism are SF/SJ CA area, Seattle, LA (I wouldn't be surprised) Huntsville= I would bet other high areas are Raleigh/Durham area NC, Los Alamos, NM; Boston suburb area, ALbuquerque, NM, and some other places. What is the correlation - high tech areas where lots of science, math, engineering people live.

 

So you're saying that too much math and science causes autism? :smilielol5:

 

J/K of course. I know autism isn't a joke. We have a good friend with an autistic dd, and I have a dd of my own who at one point we thought might be autistic, but thankfully she wasn't. She does have a speech disorder that sometimes exhibits autistic-like symptoms, though.

[Sophia]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100913/hl_nm/us_mercury_autism

 

Sounds legit but how do you know what to believe any more? All my kids are vaxed and no problems but my BFF will go to her grave swearing it caused the autism in her ds. I don't think I trust the media one way or the other...

 

I'm with you Heather.

I have a friend who swears her baby was fine until she received her 4 month old shots. (J was the oldest, she didn't vax her later dc.)

Then after reading the other thread where many people *knew* something was wrong, but were dismissed by the medical community...ugh. What's a parent to do?

[pdalley]

So you're saying that too much math and science causes autism? :smilielol5:

 

J/K of course. I know autism isn't a joke. We have a good friend with an autistic dd, and I have a dd of my own who at one point we thought might be autistic, but thankfully she wasn't. She does have a speech disorder that sometimes exhibits autistic-like symptoms, though.

 

 

I think she's referring to the genetic part of it. My boys are all autistic and it's definitely genetic. I can trace it in my family tree back to pre Civil War days. The traits are pretty jaw dropping.

 

I know vaccines did not cause MY boys to be autistic. I do know there are children who are injured by vaccines. I just know in our case that Aspies make Aspies.

[Ruby]

Just a thought. My daughter was diagnosed with juvenial rheumatoid arthritis when she was 2. She had been fine and never had any problems. One day her knee was swollen and she had a fever. She coincidently had hand and mouth disease at the same time. (or whatever it was called.) They said that many people may carry the gene for arthritis but they aren't sure what triggers it in some but not others(possibly a virus ). Who's to say that something in the vaccines or your bodies reaction to them doesn't somehow flip a switch in susceptible people? There is still so many unknown factors regarding dna that they are only beginning to scratch the surface of. Both sides of the argument could be right and not know it yet.

[Donna A.]

I think she's referring to the genetic part of it. My boys are all autistic and it's definitely genetic. I can trace it in my family tree back to pre Civil War days. The traits are pretty jaw dropping.

 

I know vaccines did not cause MY boys to be autistic. I do know there are children who are injured by vaccines. I just know in our case that Aspies make Aspies.

 

Now that you mention it, I do remember reading at the time I was researching my dd's condition (Apraxia of Speech) about a study done in Britain which concluded that heredity does play a big role. I thought about some of the difficulties my dh has had over the years, and there are MANY similarities between him and this dd, even though he's never been diagnosed with the same condition. He did have some therapies when he was little, but they just wrote it off to his being premature and didn't continue the therapies, or give the right therapies, that he would need to overcome all of the obstacles. Although even if they had, it wouldn't have prevented a child from inheriting those same or similar problems... but it sure would've made my dh's life easier as an adult. And mine. :glare:

[TravelingChris]

No, I am not saying that math or science ability cause Autism. However, many people who used to be considered simply odd math kids or odd science kids would probably be diagnosed now as on the spectrum. Remember that 45 years ago and more, no one was being diagnosed with Aspergers or High Functioning Autism. At that time, it was thought that people became autistic because of cold mothers. Well most likely what they were observing was slightly Asperger mothers having more seriously affected autistic children.

[ElizabethB]

The TV/rain data is interesting. I have not seen much discussion about it, however.

 

http://www.slate.com/id/2151538/

[flobee76]

Just a thought. My daughter was diagnosed with juvenial rheumatoid arthritis when she was 2. She had been fine and never had any problems. One day her knee was swollen and she had a fever. She coincidently had hand and mouth disease at the same time. (or whatever it was called.) They said that many people may carry the gene for arthritis but they aren't sure what triggers it in some but not others(possibly a virus ). Who's to say that something in the vaccines or your bodies reaction to them doesn't somehow flip a switch in susceptible people? There is still so many unknown factors regarding dna that they are only beginning to scratch the surface of. Both sides of the argument could be right and not know it yet.

 

After speaking with our kids' Ped., researching, and speaking to others, I am a believer that Autism can be inherited, vaccines can trigger those tendencies. Our ped even said, "Look at your children. Look at your family. You are not at risk of the autism spectrum". (even so, we've delayed... delayed so long that they are WAY off the schedule. :lol: ) He added, "If I saw something in your children, I would not suggest to vaccinate until they were much older."

[smrtmama]

Austism is the straw horse they trot out to make people who delay or decline vaccines look foolish. Most people I know who have children on an alternate vaccine schedule did not choose that due to anything having to do with autism.

[*~Tina~*]

It isn't a matter of trusting the media. It is a matter of looking at the studies. No studies have found any link between autism and vaccines. There have been many. The one study that purported the link only had 14 kids in it and has been discredited.

 

 

I disagree with this. Most, if not all studies of this nature are either fully funded or clandestinely contaminated with pharmaceutical funds. Thus, it's nearly impossible for these studies to be clean and unbaised.

 

The only people financially vested in proving that vaccines don't cause autism are those who stand to profit from their continued and growing sales.

 

I personally contend their funds would be better spent searching for the actual cause of autism and related conditions, but of course, that doesn't make big pharma any money. Selling med's does.

 

Consider how many vaccinations are recommended nowadays. And that number is growing EVERY DAY, not just for children, but for adults as well. It's alarming to me.

 

 

Blessings,

¸.·´ .·´¨¨))

((¸¸.·´ .·´ -:¦:-Tina ~

-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

http://seasonsoflearning.blogspot.com/

[TravelingChris]

You can disagree all you want. This latest and best study is funded by the Federal Government, not by any pharmaceutical company. Another very large study was done by the Danish Government, again not a pharmaceutical company.

[*~Tina~*]

You can disagree all you want. This latest and best study is funded by the Federal Government, not by any pharmaceutical company. Another very large study was done by the Danish Government, again not a pharmaceutical company.

 

Umm. . .you really don't have to be rude and defensive. I respectfully disagreed and I stand by what I said.

 

You seem to disavow the connection. . . but without question, "government" is most heavily lobbied, contaminated, and influenced by big pharma.

 

Pull the funding data and check the fine print and financial lineage of any of these studies. The devil's in the details.

 

 

Blessings,

¸.·´ .·´¨¨))

((¸¸.·´ .·´ -:¦:-Tina ~

-:¦:- ((¸¸.·´*

http://seasonsoflearning.blogspot.com/

[regentrude]

Since mercury has been banned from the childhood vaccines for quite some time, yet the autism rates continue to rise, clearly the mercury in the vaccine can not be the major factor.

[nmoira]

 

The TV/rain data is interesting. I have not seen much discussion about it, however.

If there is a link, it's more likely because of Vitamin D deficiency than TV. Research is ongoing.

[Karen in CO]

Austism is the straw horse they trot out to make people who delay or decline vaccines look foolish. Most people I know who have children on an alternate vaccine schedule did not choose that due to anything having to do with autism.

:iagree:

 

We are on a delayed schedule because of adverse reactions, not a fear of autsim. I think both autsim and harm caused by vaccinces are much more complicated than these studies acknowledge.

[Mrs Mungo]

Austism is the straw horse they trot out to make people who delay or decline vaccines look foolish. Most people I know who have children on an alternate vaccine schedule did not choose that due to anything having to do with autism.

 

I agree. I am much more concerned with the number of auto-immune disorders in my family.

 

And on a separate note, I'm not sure how I feel about Asperger syndrome being on the autism spectrum. In my family we just call them "engineers." Why does every difference from the perceived societal norm have to be a disorder?

Edited September 13, 2010 by Mrs Mungo

[Snickerdoodle]

Actually the areas with high amounts of autism are SF/SJ CA

 

Well, they didn't name the local newspaper The Mercury News for nothing. The area is littered with abandoned mercury mines and mercury was used extensively during the gold rush for gold purification.

 

Not that I'm saying mercury is the culprit.. I'm just saying...

[justasque]

In my family we just call them "engineers."

 

:lol:

[Snickerdoodle]

In my family we just call them "engineers."

 

Or scientists.

[Joanne]

This is what I post everytime this topic comes up:

 

I believe the parents that were mainstream and had a normally developing child who, after administration of a vaccine, changed dramactically and began to manifest autistic behaviors/symptoms. I believe those parents. I believe that in those children, for whatever complicated reason, the administration of vaccines caused their autism.

 

I also believe "autism" is a misnomer and that we have several *different* neurological issues being umbrellaed on the spectrum. I don't think autism = autism = autism.

 

The terrible logic that manifests in these threads always frustrates me. The reality that some kids developed autistic like behaviors after a vaccine does not = vaccines are a risk for every child. The fact that any particular child was "just fine" does not = vaccines don't cause (some) autism. The fact that a child had autism before vaccines does not = vaccines don't cause it. And, finally, the fact that "x" kid was never vaccinated and still has autism doesn't = vaccines don't cause it.

 

I wholeheartedly believe the parents of vaccine induced autistic kids. There are too many with too many specifics to deny the correlation.

[Audrey]

This is what I post everytime this topic comes up:

 

I believe the parents that were mainstream and had a normally developing child who, after administration of a vaccine, changed dramactically and began to manifest autistic behaviors/symptoms. I believe those parents. I believe that in those children, for whatever complicated reason, the administration of vaccines caused their autism.

 

I also believe "autism" is a misnomer and that we have several *different* neurological issues being umbrellaed on the spectrum. I don't think autism = autism = autism.

 

The terrible logic that manifests in these threads always frustrates me. The reality that some kids developed autistic like behaviors after a vaccine does not = vaccines are a risk for every child. The fact that any particular child was "just fine" does not = vaccines don't cause (some) autism. The fact that a child had autism before vaccines does not = vaccines don't cause it. And, finally, the fact that "x" kid was never vaccinated and still has autism doesn't = vaccines don't cause it.

 

I wholeheartedly believe the parents of vaccine induced autistic kids. There are too many with too many specifics to deny the correlation.

 

:iagree: Again. :001_smile: FWIW, we no longer vax because of a bad reaction to the first MMR. After that, we're not risking it again. I honestly couldn't give a flip what anyone thinks of or has to say about our decision in that regard. I don't judge others' decisions on the subject either.

[LaissezFaire]

I don't think they cause autism. I do think that many things including vaccines can be a trigger.. My concerns with vaccines surround their possible link to auto immune diseases.

 

Mrs. Mungo, I think we would get along very well. I think I could just follow all your posts with a little "Me Too" from me. LOL

[ElizabethB]

If there is a link, it's more likely because of Vitamin D deficiency than TV. Research is ongoing.

 

That makes sense. I'm glad to know they are following it up, thanks!

[tex-mex]

So you're saying that too much math and science causes autism? :smilielol5:

 

 

 

I think she is saying one geek marries another geek and give birth to a geek jr. 50 years ago, there were no centers like the regions mentioned to bring the massive geeky brainiacs in high numbers before computers. Makes sense why autism is on the rise.

[tex-mex]

I agree. I am much more concerned with the number of auto-immune disorders in my family.

 

And on a separate note, I'm not sure how I feel about Asperger syndrome being on the autism spectrum. In my family we just call them "engineers." Why does every difference from the perceived societal norm have to be a disorder?

I know. Back in the day, it was merely quirky, eccentric, or unusual personalities. Today, it has a label. ;)

 

Spoken by a card carrying Aspie and mom to a beloved Aspie son. *grin* Just another label.

Edited September 13, 2010 by tex-mex

[Alexandra]

I agree. I am much more concerned with the number of auto-immune disorders in my family.

 

And on a separate note, I'm not sure how I feel about Asperger syndrome being on the autism spectrum. In my family we just call them "engineers." Why does every difference from the perceived societal norm have to be a disorder?

 

Engineers! When I was doing tons and tons of research on dyslexia it seemed that they were all engineers in the making. My nephew - had major learning difficulties and general quirkiness is now a professor of engineering. The whole family acted like he had huge problems his whole childhood. Poor kid....full ride scholarship - all the way to Phd.

[mom31257]

I agree. I am much more concerned with the number of auto-immune disorders in my family.

 

And on a separate note, I'm not sure how I feel about Asperger syndrome being on the autism spectrum. In my family we just call them "engineers." Why does every difference from the perceived societal norm have to be a disorder?

 

I so agree with this. I do feel there is an overwhelming push to diagnose every situation as "something". I feel that it has come out of our society's desire to make everyone feel equal and have high self-esteem. I am not against diagnosing things that really need to be.

 

My dh and I were talking about what dysgraphia is. He knew it could cause poor spelling. He has ALWAYS been a poor speller and his handwriting is horrible. He would probably be diagnosed with it. What benefit would come from him being diagnosed, though?

 

I have a nephew who started having seizures the day of his 4 month shots. He is 16 and developmentally about 5. He has since been diagnosed with Celiac and Mitochondrial diseases. Perhaps those diseases caused the reaction or it could have been the shot itself. My sister was later able to find out his lot number had already had 2 deaths and 10 permanent disabilities.

 

I think you just have to consider the risks vs. benefits, pray if you are prone to do so, then make your decision.

 

For us, dd was immunized fully by Kindergarten. I did not have peace about all of ds's. He has not had any more shots since he was 15 months. I don't know what we'll do when they get to college. I have a friend who's dd got shots one day for college and the next day for a missions trip. She started having seizures and wasn't able to go on the trip. She's still on medication.

[lamamaloca]

My dh and I were talking about what dysgraphia is. He knew it could cause poor spelling. He has ALWAYS been a poor speller and his handwriting is horrible. He would probably be diagnosed with it. What benefit would come from him being diagnosed, though?

 

I'm not sure if there is anything that could be done for adults, but if he were a child the benefit would be treatment. This could make a large difference to a child in school. That is the reason for the diagnoses, because it can help the individuals to treat or compensate for their brain differences that could otherwise be impairing.

[Mrs Mungo]

I'm not sure if there is anything that could be done for adults, but if he were a child the benefit would be treatment. This could make a large difference to a child in school. That is the reason for the diagnoses, because it can help the individuals to treat or compensate for their brain differences that could otherwise be impairing.

 

My question is maybe a little different. I have no doubt that my ADD child could not sit in a classroom all day without severe consequences. I have no doubt that she is *different* and has a *different* learning style and needs *different* curricula than my other kids. My question is, why is that a "disorder" requiring "treatment" vs. a difference that requires different teaching?

[lamamaloca]

My question is maybe a little different. I have no doubt that my ADD child could not sit in a classroom all day without severe consequences. I have no doubt that she is *different* and has a *different* learning style and needs *different* curricula than my other kids. My question is, why is that a "disorder" requiring "treatment" vs. a difference that requires different teaching?

 

Well, the medical definition would consider it a disorder once it caused impairment. I know that doesn't really answer your question.

 

I will say that my view on this has done a 180 since I myself was diagnosed with ADD. I've struggled with recurrent and severe depression since middle school. Once I was a mother, I had horrible episodes of depression and also severe anger management issues. My psychologist suspected bipolar but wanted to do thorough testing; I came up severely ADD, inattentive type. Since I'm also very smart, I was always able to compensate academically, but it certainly affected my social life and my mental health. The three months since I began taking medications have been wonderful. I know what it is like to function, to be able to plan things, get things done, even while there are other noises in the room, and not explode in anger. Now, as I look at my kids who show symptoms of ADD, I can no longer say "that's just who they are." If they truly have ADD, we need to see what we can do to help. It sucks to have ADD. That's all I can say. I didn't even realize how awful it was until I knew what it was like to be normal. I just thought I was lazy, incompetent, selfish or stupid, and that's why I had such a hard time with everything that was easy for other people.

 

If the individual doesn't have a problem because of his differences, and the problem really is just with this acceptance into society, then no it probably ought not be considered a disorder.

Edited September 14, 2010 by lamamaloca

[Robin's Song]

I agree. I am much more concerned with the number of auto-immune disorders in my family.

 

 

Do you have a link for this? I googled it, but I'm never sure what websites are reputable on these sorts of things...

 

Autoimmune disorders are prevalent in my family as well.

[Snowfall]

Since mercury has been banned from the childhood vaccines for quite some time, yet the autism rates continue to rise, clearly the mercury in the vaccine can not be the major factor.

 

That's not completely accurate. The same year mercury was removed from vaccines routinely given to children, the CDC started recommending children receive yearly flu vaccines, which still can contain mercury, even when given to children. Many children receive flu vaccines preserved with thimerosal every year. I don't think it's causing autism, but you have to be accurate about what's happening here. Additionally, there are still many children who will receive other vaccines containing mercury, because it was NOT removed from vaccines that aren't routinely given. For instance, suppose a child reacts badly to the pertussis vaccine. Instead of a DTaP, they will be given the DT, which may still contain mercury depending on which formulation they get, since it was only removed from vaccines routinely given to children, and DT isn't routinely given.

 

On top of all that is the fact that many people did not ever blame mercury for causing their children's autism, but rather the MMR vaccine, which never contained mercury to begin with. Those parents believe it is the combination of viruses in the vaccine that cause autism. Either that or that it's something to do with an effect of the attenuated viruses that is not found in the wild viruses. I'm not sure which. Whatever it is, it's not mercury.

 

Over the years, the amount of measles virus in the MMR has changed drastically, with no further approval from the FDA or safety studies by Merck required. In fact, at one point in the 90s the amount of measles virus in the MMR vaccine had quadrupled from what it was originally. Then a few years ago it was reduced, but not to original levels. The manufacturer was not required to do any further testing or anything at all, other than indicate the change on the label. Why did they add more measles virus to the vaccine? And why did they then reduce it? I assume they added more because they suspected the vaccine wasn't as effective as they had previously believed. Remember, there was a big measles outbreak in the 90s. Why they reduced it, I don't know. How they can gauge these things without even testing and why the FDA allows such drastic changes without testing, I can't even fathom. Most people have no idea this even happened because no one ever told parents or doctors. It wasn't big news, but all one has to do is read the labels.

[wapiti]

My question is maybe a little different. I have no doubt that my ADD child could not sit in a classroom all day without severe consequences. I have no doubt that she is *different* and has a *different* learning style and needs *different* curricula than my other kids. My question is, why is that a "disorder" requiring "treatment" vs. a difference that requires different teaching?

 

Just thinking out loud, but I'd say it would be a "disorder" if the diagnosis was made according to the criteria listed in the DSM. (and yes, I do take issue with what I contend is poor drafting of such criteria in some cases, possibly resulting in more diagnoses of disorders for things that once were merely differences. But certain "treatments" are rarely covered by insurance unless they are responding to diagnoses listed in the DSM)

 

Perhaps one aspect of "treatment" for your child is different teaching?

Edited September 14, 2010 by wapiti

[cjbeach]

I have a kid who was vax injured and the injury was pretty intense and almost immediate. Eventually he was dx'd with ASD. But I think there are underlying issues so I lean toward immunocompromise as the major contributing factor. I'm more of a "vax as the bullet but the gun was already in place" theory follower for MY son. Then I have a very holistic friend with a non-vaxed son with ASD who was breastfed forever. We've talked about it and we both have quirky people in the family, both had leaky amalgams, both were anemic, etc.. Her son was quirky almost from birth where my guy was neurotypical until the time of his vax injury. So did it just flip the switch for him? I don't know. But my 2 younger are not vaxed yet. Every year I say I'll start but my husband is even more nervous that I am. And our docs haven't pushed...I don't think they're entirely comfortable given my oldest's history.

 

At the time of my son's 15 mo shots he was doing a dairy challenge for casein allergy. He had profuse diarrhea. AFter 5 days on the challenge I didn't want the scope that was scheduled at the end of the 2 weeks, I just wanted the OK from the GI doc that it was allergy. The.kid.was.liquid. But he insisted on scope which was + for reflux and bx/biopsy + for casein allergy. Duh. I postponed his 15 mo well child visit and waited almost until his 18 mos appt when at that appointment the APN wanted to "catch him up" on his 15 and 18 mos series?? (15 and 18? Yup, I know bells should have been going off in me. But I trusted this group implicitly.) At that time he rec'd all of the normal 18 mos shots on a Thurs. He was really sick and lethargic for days after. He was definitely different after this series. Monday morning (4 days later) he woke up with full blown measles. He was sick for almost 2 months recovering. The incident seems to exhaust and drain him. He was a different and disconnected child. He wasn't there, if that makes any sense- lights were on, but nobody was home. **ETA, we've since learned this reaction was probably a mild case of measles encephalopathy which would have qualified him for compensation through the Vaccine Injury Compensation FUnd but to be honest, that's not where our brains were. We were completely freaked out and were treating in the moment. Then the official diagnosis didn't come until he was 36 months. By the time we learned about VAERS he was 40 months and we didn't learn about the compensation fund until a bit later, exceeding the 2 years window for filing.

 

During this time our pedi pretty much blew us off and told us not to worry. The following month at 19 mos the head of the practice had to refer us out for speech therapy because the day of his shots he stopped speaking,but like I said he was so sick it didn't really bother us. It wasn't until a few weeks later than my husband and I really began worrying about his loss of speech. He did not utter another word until 24-ish months. Luckily we were involved in Early Intervention at 19 mos. I'm grateful for that.

 

But we were most upset by just how evasive the docs were in addressing the reaction. Just because it wasn't supposed to happen, doesn't mean it didn't happen. On his medical records there is NO documentation whatsoever about the phone calls or evals re: the reaction.

 

Ten people may be exposed to a carcinogen on a certain day but only one may develop cancer. What was that person's immune system like on that day. What were their predispositions? Exposure? History? Who really knows. I feel much the same about ASD- too many variables.

 

We did go the Biomed route in treatment for a bit, and though it was not anything hugely successful for MY son, his stool did test + for yeast and bacteria. We did a course of antibiotics and Nystatin (anti-fungal) and wow... THAT was a profound + change, but the other intervetions did not produce such dramatic successes. He also does seem more in tune on high dose B12 so we're looking into that more. I'm mentioning this because I think there is SO much to ASD... so much more. I love what some from here said "if you know one child with Autism, you know ONE child with Autism." Of all the ASD kids we know, they're all similar in some ways but so different in others. And the spectrum is WIDE (way too wide IMO).

 

I also just read tht the little girl with underlying mitochondrial disease, Hannah Poling, was just awarded 1.5Mil.

Edited September 14, 2010 by cjbeach
ASD kiddo having rough time tonight, in here with my as I try to type. Sorry.

[Peela]

 

Autism, along with many other developmental and mental disorders are a set of symptoms to which we have given a name. In that way they are an artificial construct. The amount that these disorders share symptoms is astounding at times. How do you tell the difference between a child with Autism and one with SPD, Anxiety who also has a high IQ?

 

 

:iagree: with them being an artificial construct.

 

It does seem, though, that even ruling out the high functioning autism diagnoses that didnt exist decades ago...that autism is increasing. I would be interested in knowing if that wasnt the case...but it does seem that that particular bunch of symptoms commonly known as autism is on the rise.

 

You can disagree all you want. This latest and best study is funded by the Federal Government, not by any pharmaceutical company. Another very large study was done by the Danish Government, again not a pharmaceutical company.

 

I think it is rather naive to think that the Federal Government has no agendas. They are fully in cohorts with Big Pharma.

 

 

The terrible logic that manifests in these threads always frustrates me. The reality that some kids developed autistic like behaviors after a vaccine does not = vaccines are a risk for every child. The fact that any particular child was "just fine" does not = vaccines don't cause (some) autism. The fact that a child had autism before vaccines does not = vaccines don't cause it. And, finally, the fact that "x" kid was never vaccinated and still has autism doesn't = vaccines don't cause it.

 

I wholeheartedly believe the parents of vaccine induced autistic kids. There are too many with too many specifics to deny the correlation.

 

:iagree: Just because each case is unique and we all know individuals who have autism with and without vaccine correlation....doesn't discredit or make those who claim the opposite to be morons. I also get frustrated at the logic in thes threads where everyone seems to want to defend a position, instead of just keeping an open mind.

There are keys to autism we obvioulsy havent found yet, but there's no need to ignore the obvious facts.

I would trust mothers' experience over biased Big Pharma studies anyday. If hundreds, no, thousands of mothers are saying their kids was not the same after this or that vaccine....well, why won't be take them seriously ? Doesnt make sense to me. That is "science" gone really wrong.

 

I so agree with this. I do feel there is an overwhelming push to diagnose every situation as "something". I feel that it has come out of our society's desire to make everyone feel equal and have high self-esteem. I am not against diagnosing things that really need to be.

 

My dh and I were talking about what dysgraphia is. He knew it could cause poor spelling. He has ALWAYS been a poor speller and his handwriting is horrible. He would probably be diagnosed with it. What benefit would come from him being diagnosed, though?

 

 

 

The only benefit with giving a set of symptoms a long name is that then they can devise a treatment for it. So...it can be of benefit if you wish to milk the system to get treatments, or concessions for your child with messy handwriting for example.....but is of no other value whatsoever. Messy handwriting is no more a disease than ADHD is a disease - it is a set of symptoms. In the case of ADHD, it can be medicalised and millions of $ made out of it. In the case of dysgraphia, I guess without a label kids cant be put aside for extra handwriting practice, as they were back a few decades, because it would be considered some sort of discrimination nowadays.

I do not think all people are cynical in their need to put names to things...but there is, I agree, a rather extreme tendency to name things nowadays. As if we are all meant to be absolutely average at everything and if we are above or balow, it is a condition needing some sort of support.

 

I think we also tend to want to find pat answers to feel comfortable- and often, to find something or someone to blame. And its not that simple.

[Miss Sherry]

I haven't read all of the posts, but I just wanted to mention that Dr. Wile, the author of Apologia textbooks, wrote articles regarding vaccinations. They may still be online.

[WishboneDawn]

My theory...completely at a pre-theory level and probably impossible to prove...

 

My daughter would quibble with you on this. :D You're talking hypothesis, not theory. A theory would have a body of evidence to back it up.

[WishboneDawn]

Umm. . .you really don't have to be rude and defensive. I respectfully disagreed and I stand by what I said.

 

You seem to disavow the connection. . . but without question, "government" is most heavily lobbied, contaminated, and influenced by big pharma.

 

Pull the funding data and check the fine print and financial lineage of any of these studies. The devil's in the details.

 

The simple fact is though that the studies exist and are subject to peer review. This stands in stark contrast to any data that links autism and vaccinations.

 

Who funds studies is a valid concern but at some point the actual studies have to be looked at to determine if they're valid or not. Otherwise the funding issue simply becomes a way of avoiding that hard work and dismissing what may be valuable evidence without even bothering to review.

[Onceuponatime]

No, I am not saying that math or science ability cause Autism. However, many people who used to be considered simply odd math kids or odd science kids would probably be diagnosed now as on the spectrum. Remember that 45 years ago and more, no one was being diagnosed with Aspergers or High Functioning Autism. At that time, it was thought that people became autistic because of cold mothers. Well most likely what they were observing was slightly Asperger mothers having more seriously affected autistic children.

 

I have personally seen autism in 3 different little boys who had mothers that were neglectful. One mother did have major psychological problems. She down right rejected her child and did everything she could to get out of nuturing him, even divorcing her husband. I baby sat him for a little while when he was an infant. His mother literally fed him long distance. She would lay him down on the sofa and sit as far away from him as possible and stick the bottle in his mouth, without touching him. When he was older, she propped it up with a pillow or blanket. It broke my heart.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that I believe physical and emotional trauma may be triggers for some autistic children. I remember watching a special on tv with Matthew Laborteaux (alber from Little House on the Prairie). He talked about how he was born with a hole in his heart and had a diagnosis of of autism when he was adopted. His adopted mother took it upon herself to do some heavy nurturing and eventually his diagnosis was reversed.

 

Couldn't the physical trauma of immunizations be a trigger as well? One of my sons had symptoms of shock the day of his 4 month shots. I remember wrapping him up in blankets and holding him close, trying to get him to nurse. He's been on a delayed scheduled since then at my insistence.

[asta]

I disagree with this. Most, if not all studies of this nature are either fully funded or clandestinely contaminated with pharmaceutical funds. Thus, it's nearly impossible for these studies to be clean and unbaised.

 

The only people financially vested in proving that vaccines don't cause autism are those who stand to profit from their continued and growing sales.

 

I personally contend their funds would be better spent searching for the actual cause of autism and related conditions, but of course, that doesn't make big pharma any money. Selling med's does.

 

Consider how many vaccinations are recommended nowadays. And that number is growing EVERY DAY, not just for children, but for adults as well. It's alarming to me.

 

There aren't any autism meds.

 

Sorry.

 

 

asta

[bbrandonsmom]

It isn't a matter of trusting the media. It is a matter of looking at the studies. No studies have found any link between autism and vaccines. There have been many. The one study that purported the link only had 14 kids in it and has been discredited.

 

What I found fascinating was that the latest study found a small correlation with vaccination and less chances of autism. This study also looked at whether amounts of vaccine given at one time had any correlation with autism- they didn't.

 

Researchers are thinking that genetics has a lot to do with it and I think in the next few years, we will be finding out what are the markers. There are lots of diseases that they are searching for markers so I guess it takes time.

 

I need to read through the whole thread. I have a question though-do you know why that study was discredited? What about the studies done prior to that which proved the Same thing and were not discredited?

[ma23peas]

My question is maybe a little different. I have no doubt that my ADD child could not sit in a classroom all day without severe consequences. I have no doubt that she is *different* and has a *different* learning style and needs *different* curricula than my other kids. My question is, why is that a "disorder" requiring "treatment" vs. a difference that requires different teaching?

 

Okay, you just need to start a Blogosphere virus with the above question!! I lead a scouting troop and have had several children with issues that make my job as a leader challenging...because it requires me to change the way I lead in certain settings...is it the most efficient if everyone was a square peg in a square hole..no, but is it MORE rewarding and ultimately more of a teaching lesson to show others HOW to teach more creatively and LOVE that child for their own unique challenges? YES!!

 

Sadly, not many feel confident taking their teaching out of the box, they feel they shouldn't 'have' to teach differently, since the colleges taught them a certain way they need to stick to the path they're on....sad.

 

Tara

[bbrandonsmom]

Ok, what you guys who have questions have to do is read the package inserts for the vaccines. And ask yourself who the safety studies are done on. You would be surprised if you knew.

Look at every single side effect.

Look for any safety study done on the vaccines and look to see if there is an opposite study. There are boundless studies on the harmful effects of what is in a vaccine. Ask yourself if you would drink a vaccine? Look for facts.

How many of you have read the court cases where the FDA is saying to dumb down the vaccine info, because parents are not smart enough to understand the effects and studies? Isn't the FDA supposed to protects us?

Look at the disease statistics, how to treat the disease etc. Start out one at a time and thoroughly explore it.

Why are the cvpd making a shift to adults?

Just some food for thought.

 

Yes, the Poling family was awarded a ton of money. Ask yourself why is that case sealed from the public? Why don't they want everyone to read the facts? Yes the vaccine triggered an underlying condition, which can happen to anyone. Just look at the vaccine reactions.

Also, there are many, many more people who have been awarded money for vaccine damages. If there is no damage from vaccines-why are the courts awarding money? If there were proof (and there has been no long term study on the safety of vaccines), why is the USA giving money to people w/ vaccine damaged children???

[carolinagirl]

I have personally seen autism in 3 different little boys who had mothers that were neglectful. One mother did have major psychological problems. She down right rejected her child and did everything she could to get out of nuturing him, even divorcing her husband. I baby sat him for a little while when he was an infant. His mother literally fed him long distance. She would lay him down on the sofa and sit as far away from him as possible and stick the bottle in his mouth, without touching him. When he was older, she propped it up with a pillow or blanket. It broke my heart.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that I believe physical and emotional trauma may be triggers for some autistic children. I remember watching a special on tv with Matthew Laborteaux (alber from Little House on the Prairie). He talked about how he was born with a hole in his heart and had a diagnosis of of autism when he was adopted. His adopted mother took it upon herself to do some heavy nurturing and eventually his diagnosis was reversed.

 

Couldn't the physical trauma of immunizations be a trigger as well? One of my sons had symptoms of shock the day of his 4 month shots. I remember wrapping him up in blankets and holding him close, trying to get him to nurse. He's been on a delayed scheduled since then at my insistence.

 

I haven't read the entire thread but I have a few issues, and a big one on this point. I have never heard or seen that autism is a product of neglectful parenting or cold mothers. I find that to be the oddest statement said in all my years of being mom to an autistic child. In fact, I've found that most mother's of autistic children are very involved and fighting for their children. Some just aren't as educated as they should be on what helps.

 

My high-functioning autism boy is super affectionate. We termed him 'the cat' because of how he loved to climb on you and wrap himself around us. He *craved* touch and we gave it to him. He's not a typical autism child in that he does like interaction, he likes people, he's social, it was the biggest stepping stone in getting him diagnosed so he could get the help he needed in school.

 

Most people would never know Michael is autistic upon meeting him, it's only being around him long term you will start to notice little quirks. Because he was high-functioning, we had the luxury of setting a standard and maintaining it. We pushed him when he was little, we put him on the same ground as his brothers, and we lived the same as if he wasn't autistic. He's an incredible person that has brought so much joy, love and laughter to our family.

 

Also, the vaccine issues...I don't think it had anything to do with my son's autism. I look back at my childhood and my husband's and it seems like we both had leanings in that direction and for whatever reason Michael tipped too far. I had sensory issues and anxiety, my husband is ADHD and also had learning troubles. But I also know that Michael's head, from the neck up, was completely purple at birth. The difference in color between his torso and his head was shocking. He was 'sunny side' and his neck had been hyperflexed I think the doctor said...I've always wondered if that was the cause.

 

Either way, 12 years ago all we had were worries about the future. Today, I have just smiles and pride. He's truly awesome.

[angela in ohio]

I found the article interesting. I was not aware that the original study only had 12 subjects. :001_huh:

 

Dh works with children and young adults with ASD. I think it is one thing to consider those who are high-functioning and say that it is just a personality difference. But dh has students who are locked in their own worlds for most of the day with intervals of tremendous violence. They need a medical diagnosis in order to access therapies, doctors, and medications that can help them.

 

I thought the move to place Asperger's under the ASD umbrella was interesting. Suddenly, many parents who wanted the diagnosis of Asperger's backed way off of it. You don't hear it thrown about as much anymore. Asperger's seems to be socially acceptable, but not Autism.

 

I think the rise in rates of diagnosis of ASD has been largely because of the increasing use of the label Autism as opposed to other labels. I also think the rates have increased by the diagnosis of students who are very high-functioning.

 

I also think that we SEE more children and adults with profound special needs, including ASD, around us because of the role of inclusion. Instead of sending them to live in facilites, the schools and parents are teaching these students life skills. They are getting jobs, coming to church, attending family gatherings, shopping in the same stores we are, etc. There is more awareness simply because they are allowed to be functioning members of society. Hopefully, this will also lead to more acceptance and accommodation.

 

Some of the diagnoses made for special needs children are not exact. There aren't medical tests for some; the diagnosis is made based on a set of symptoms. There is even a diagnoses for "we just don't know." And how a set of symptoms is diagnoses may change, as a pp mentioned.

[asta]

Just a thought. My daughter was diagnosed with juvenial rheumatoid arthritis when she was 2. She had been fine and never had any problems. One day her knee was swollen and she had a fever. She coincidently had hand and mouth disease at the same time. (or whatever it was called.) They said that many people may carry the gene for arthritis but they aren't sure what triggers it in some but not others(possibly a virus ). Who's to say that something in the vaccines or your bodies reaction to them doesn't somehow flip a switch in susceptible people? There is still so many unknown factors regarding dna that they are only beginning to scratch the surface of. Both sides of the argument could be right and not know it yet.

 

My sister has primary lateral sclerosis.

 

She was cruising along fine - no one knew anything was wrong, no symptoms or anything, until her marriage ran into trouble. Then BAM - all hades broke loose. She went downhill so fast it was amazing.

 

One divorce and a LOT of therapy later, she has regained much of her functioning, but will never be back where she was.

 

I often think of this when people say their kid was "fine before their shots" then "got" autism, then had a bunch of interventions, then were "essentially cured."

 

Maybe they are just like my sister: it was there all along, but the stressor, the kicker if you will, hadn't been introduced. Then some kids get the aggressive intervention and some don't. And not everyone starts from the same spot anyway. My sister has the type that doesn't kill you, it just disables. If she were in the autism spectrum, she would be high functioning, not non-verbal, so she wouldn't have as 'far to go' to get the miracle Jenny McCarthy cure (gag), IYKWIM.

 

It's all a crapshoot. And a convenient umbrella for a whole bunch of symptoms that docs don't know how else to categorize (like someone else mentioned).

 

JMO

 

 

a