Update on the teen girl situation at my church

[Nakia]

I have had some people ask me what happened about the situation at church with the teen girl and my 4 year old. Here is the thread if you miss it and want to catch up.

 

Cora and I stayed home from AWANA last Wednesday night because Cora was sick, so I couldn't meet with the pastors. Yesterday, as soon as we walked in and B saw us, she ran right for Cora, and I very firmly said, "Do not take Cora away from me." I said it louder and harsher than I probably should have, but ladies, as soon as I saw B, I felt like I had been kicked in the gut so I reacted ungracefully; not one of my best moments. B still came right up to to Cora and was hugging her and doing her baby talk, so I took Cora away and we went on into the children's building. B was doing check-in on Sunday. Not sure if I mentioned that but every child has a label which they must wear and every parent has a matching label. That is how we match up kids and parents when it's pick-up time. So this time, she didn't follow us.

 

It was my day to volunteer in Kid's Church (which is for 1-6th grades) so I took Cora with me instead of sending her to her class. B came into Kid's Church, where she had no assignment and no business being, and came straight for Cora. The children's pastor saw it, and of course, I was right by Cora, but he sent B on an errand. About 3 minutes later she was back, and went right to Cora. Several times, she tried to get between me and Cora. I am telling you now, I have never had to hold my temper like that and been successful. The truth was, though, that gave the children's pastor the perfect opening for his talk with B. Immediately after church, the children's pastor asked to meet with Patrick and I. He told me that the children's safety was his number one priority, and that B was no longer going to be serving in children's ministry until further notice. He told me there are many many issues, with the Cora thing the most alarming, and she is going to go into counseling, sponsored by the church to take care of some needs she has. After he met with us, he met with B and her mother and asked a lot of questions and laid down the rules. I know he was very gentle with her because he (and I agree!!) doesn't want to quench any hunger for Jesus inside her. But she has no social skills or respect of boundaries, so that is going to be addressed. From now on, she will not even be allowed in the children's building.

 

I feel so much better, but my guard is not down yet. I am going to go back there myself several times during service to make sure B is nowhere near Cora.

 

Thank you all so much for your prayers and support.

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

I'm so glad for the discernment and actions of your pastor, but I am more glad that you do not intend to let down your guard.

 

Nakia, if there is any true danger it will be highest when the girl is told that she may not be around Cora. She will feel as if she is losing something she is obsessed with, or she may feel as if something bad about herself is coming to light....and you do not yet know the depth of her problems.

 

Even with your good pastor's rules and safeguards, in my opinion you should not let Cora out of your sight for a moment. Don't be satisfied with checking for B's presence several times during the service. Be within arms' reach of Cora from the moment you arrive on the church campus until you have her back in the car.

 

At least until you know which way this girl will jump.

[Parrothead]

I"m glad something is being done.

[Dobela]

I'm so glad for the discernment and actions of your pastor, but I am more glad that you do not intend to let down your guard.

 

Nakia, if there is any true danger it will be highest when the girl is told that she may not be around Cora. She will feel as if she is losing something she is obsessed with, or she may feel as if something bad about herself is coming to light....and you do not yet know the depth of her problems.

 

Even with your good pastor's rules and safeguards, in my opinion you should not let Cora out of your sight for a moment. Don't be satisfied with checking for B's presence several times during the service. Be within arms' reach of Cora from the moment you arrive on the church campus until you have her back in the car.

 

At least until you know which way this girl will jump.

:iagree:

[Jean in Newcastle]

A picture is worth a thousand words. I'm so glad that the children's pastor was able to see the problem first hand. And I'm so glad that they are handling it with the needs of B and Cora in mind.

[AuntieM]

I'm so glad for the discernment and actions of your pastor, but I am more glad that you do not intend to let down your guard.

 

Nakia, if there is any true danger it will be highest when the girl is told that she may not be around Cora. She will feel as if she is losing something she is obsessed with, or she may feel as if something bad about herself is coming to light....and you do not yet know the depth of her problems.

 

Even with your good pastor's rules and safeguards, in my opinion you should not let Cora out of your sight for a moment. Don't be satisfied with checking for B's presence several times during the service. Be within arms' reach of Cora from the moment you arrive on the church campus until you have her back in the car.

 

At least until you know which way this girl will jump.

 

Another :iagree:

 

I am sorry you had such a frightening day, but I am glad the children's pastor was witness to it. B's own actions stated your case.

 

I know Amy's advice may sound scary, but I really do agree. I think you need to be in the information loop... not receiving truly privileged information, but you should have some idea of B's ability to move about the building and even your community (ie, is she an independent driver?). Wow, what I just typed sounds scary, but I do agree that you must remain vigilant until you know B's issues are not only identified, but well along the path to resolution.

[angela in ohio]

I would ask the pastor if B's mother being a children's ministry leader is the best idea, as well. I don't think she should be in a leadership position with children when there are such issues with her dd. She needs to get a handle on that first.

[Nakia]

She does not have her driver's license. The pastor outright asked her why she was targeting Cora, and she said it's just because Cora is so sweet and cute. But her obsession is bizarre. And yes, it's scary. I think you all are right. We will be out of town this Sunday, but after that I will take her with me to the main sanctuary until I am sure she is under control. I can also volunteer in Cora's class or anywhere in the children's building anytime I want to. There is always a need. I will stick to my girl like glue. The children's pastor guaranteed me that she will not be allowed anywhere in the children's building, and although I trust him, I know people can let their guards down and until all the security people are aware of the situation, there might be some breaks in the system. Thank you for pointing that out to me. I just shared what you recommended with Patrick and he totally agrees.

[Miss Sherry]

I'm so glad for the discernment and actions of your pastor, but I am more glad that you do not intend to let down your guard.

 

Nakia, if there is any true danger it will be highest when the girl is told that she may not be around Cora. She will feel as if she is losing something she is obsessed with, or she may feel as if something bad about herself is coming to light....and you do not yet know the depth of her problems.

 

Even with your good pastor's rules and safeguards, in my opinion you should not let Cora out of your sight for a moment. Don't be satisfied with checking for B's presence several times during the service. Be within arms' reach of Cora from the moment you arrive on the church campus until you have her back in the car.

 

At least until you know which way this girl will jump.

I strongly agree with this. This person is obsessed with your child and is likely looking for opportunities to have contact with her. A lot can happen in even just a minute or two.

[Nakia]

I would ask the pastor if B's mother being a children's ministry leader is the best idea, as well. I don't think she should be in a leadership position with children when there are such issues with her dd. She needs to get a handle on that first.

 

I don't know if B's mother is serving in the best area or not, but I know she does a wonderful job with the kids and she loves them very much. Her daughter obviously has issues, her 7 year old is a terror and she homeschools him, plus she has a full time job outside of the church. She definitely has her hands full. I can't worry about her job position. I have to keep my child safe, and the Children's and Senior Pastor can handle that other stuff.

[Entropymama]

I'm so glad your children's pastor handled it well and didn't blow you off! I'll add my prayers to the others'.

[fhjmom]

So glad your concerns were addressed! I am also glad that it sounds like B will be getting some help so maybe she can learn the skills she needs to keep things from happening with other children in the future.

 

You are a great mommy for handling this the way you did and holding your ground! WTG! I don't think I would be bale to let my guard down eiter, btu at least there are other people that see the situation for what it is and are doing something to help protect Cora.

[KidsHappen]

I have to admit this girl's behavior does sound alarming. I am glad that the problem is being addressed and step are being taken to protect your dd. I agree with the other posters though. I don't know that I would be comfortable letting my little girl out of my reach until this has been fully resolved. So sorry you are having to deal with this. I know that you don't need any additional stress right now. Kudos to you for being so strong. My thoughts are with you. :grouphug:

[Starr]

:grouphug: Fortunately not all obsessed people do bad things. And plenty of bad people are not obvious. You're doing the right thing keeping an eye on your kids.. I'm praying for your family and the young woman.

[Miss Sherry]

:grouphug: Fortunately not all obsessed people do bad things. And plenty of bad people are not obvious. You're doing the right thing keeping an eye on your kids.. I'm praying for your family and the young woman.

"Fortunately not all obsessed people do bad things...." True. Hopefully that is the case here.

 

I agree that she is doing the right thing by keeping an eye on her dd. She does not know what other tendencies this 18 year old may or may not have other than being obsessed with her dd. But her Mommy instincts are making her extremely uncomfortable and upset by the 18 year old's behavior. A person may never have the opportunity to know all of the facts before it is too late to avoid something tragic.

[specialmama]

Thank you for updating, Nakia, I was wondering how everything went. You are a good and wise mama. :grouphug:

[Nakia]

I am not sure if I mentioned in my other thread, but I have a lot of anxiety about my children. I really have to stop myself a lot of times from freaking out about little things. But this gnawed at my gut for a few weeks, and I just kept thinking something was off. And then it progressed to a pretty intense rage/fear/panic/nausea when B came near Cora. If you have ever experienced anxiety and/or panic attacks, you will know what I mean. You can call it discernment or a mother's instinct or something, but whatever it is, I'm glad I listened.

 

I'm so glad I spoke with the Pastor, and that he was so willing to listen to me. I told him right away about my sometimes irrational anxiety, and that I had really prayed about this, and felt Cora could be in danger. I know fear is not of the Lord, but I also know that God gives us a sound mind to make these kind of decisions. I'm so glad things are in the works to get this young girl help and keep Cora safe, but Cora's safety is, in the end, my job. So as long as I need to keep her with me, I will do it. She will probably think it's pretty cool. LOL!!

[asta]

I don't know if B's mother is serving in the best area or not, but I know she does a wonderful job with the kids and she loves them very much. Her daughter obviously has issues, her 7 year old is a terror and she homeschools him, plus she has a full time job outside of the church. She definitely has her hands full. I can't worry about her job position. I have to keep my child safe, and the Children's and Senior Pastor can handle that other stuff.

 

 

An alternate opinion here - not on how you handled the situation with your own daughter, but on this "B" girl -

 

It doesn't sound like she is obsessed with your daughter in a bad (evil) way to me. Incredibly misguided, yes, but not with harmful intent. It sounds like she has a pathological need to protect her for some reason. Like she is seeing your daughter as someone - possibly herself - who needs to be protected at all costs, from SOMETHING big and bad in the world. Something no one else is acknowledging. Something no one else either is seeing or ever saw (say, abuse she received as a child).

 

You say her younger brother is a holy terror. Any ideas why? One normally doesn't see kids that are completely out of control (brother) and 18 yo young women rushing at small girls when all is hunky dory at home - despite what it may look like from the outside.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

 

a

[Hedgehog]

Just read this post and your first post on the same subject. Nakia, you sound like a wonderful mama and your kids are so blessed to have you. I think you've done totally the right thing here. I hope B gets some appropriate help; I don't envy the pastor's job on this one!

 

Children are so precious. Praying for y'all here. :grouphug:

[Harriet Vane]

Nakia, I think you have gotten a good range of thoughts on this thread. This girl may be a predator, or she may be simply misguided. Doesn't really matter--your response must still be the same, as you know.

 

One thought to add, though:

 

I was in a similar circumstance once, though thankfully not as personally as you. (My child was not the one at risk.) A young person was discovered to have been in an incident with a small child that had definite predatory (s@xual) implications. This person maintained their innocence and insisted that the incident was being misconstrued (which was possible, though the incident was alarming enough that we could not take chances). The youth pastor reacted wonderfully and appropriately, meeting with parents and pastors, etc. The young person in question was forbidden to engage in children's ministry any more, ever, and asked to stay away from the children's classrooms.

 

Unfortunately, the person in question DID continue coming into the children's classrooms, and in fact insinuating themself into church-related child care duties. The small group of us that knew of the incident had to keep on addressing this for a couple years. The first month or two was the worst. Unfortunately, this person's parents really didn't believe that any harm had been meant, and so did not exercise ANY restraint towards this person's involvement with child care.

 

The bottom line: Be vigilant. Someone who struggles with boundaries will continue to struggle. They will also feel that, when enough time has passed, that they can revert to "normal." Don't demonize this young woman, as she may have hurts you do not know of, and her intentions may be innocent. BUT--don't relax either.

 

:grouphug:

[Heatherwith4]

Good for you for holding your temper! I think you are handling it well.

I will pray for this situation, and B and her family, too.

And I agree that you should still be diligent, which it sounds like you will be!

[Dobela]

Nakia, I am so happy that the youth minister saw what was happening. With a witness it is no longer your word against hers. I also think your reaction is right - if someone, anyone, was that persistent at wanting to touch my child, even innocently, after I had said expressly said for them to not do it, I would be very angry.

 

As far as having the mother continue in her role, my guess is that will work out somehow as well. I have known other people like the mother IRL and at some point somewhere they can't hold it all together. If they have not had counseling before, that may be what helps bring it all to a point.

[ChristusG]

Thank you for updating us!! And I'm so glad that they are taking your concerns seriously. I totally know what you mean as far as an anxiety about your kids. I have a hard time discerning between real issues that need addressing or whether I'm just being paranoid. I'm glad you are listening to your gut on this one. Harmful or not, the actions this girl is displaying would be frightening for any mother.

[StephanieZ]

I am so glad that you are getting support from the pastor, and things are moving in the right direction.

 

Trusting your gut on these things is something that is vitally important to do. You are absolutely right to trust yours and act on it.

 

I don't want to nudge up your anxiety, and you've probably already thought of this, but please be aware that a significant portion of s*xual abuse of children is committed by females, and adolescents are a significant sector of abusers -- sometimes even acting as abusers during adolescence and then never again as adults. Abuse is so terribly common, and building the trust and affection of the child is sadly a path to access for abuse, so I would not want *any* relationship between that young woman and my children. At all. Ever.

 

I would *never* feel comfortable with B having access to any of my children in the future in any way, and would do whatever I had to do (including attending childrens' church every week or even changing churches) to make sure that never happens. Obsessed people can do very extreme things to gain the object of their obsession, so you may need to take extreme measures to counter her extreme desires.

[Gooblink]

:grouphug: I'm happy your pastors are taking this seriously. I also pray "B" gets the help she needs...something sounds off-balance with her family, poor kids. Still, by 18 years-old, one should know right from wrong.

[StephanieZ]

Oh, and so far as holding your temper being a good thing. . .

 

It is generally a good idea to maintain control.

 

However, once ground rules are established, I can see a role for righteous anger if/when B crosses them. Personally, I would make it unambiguous sometime in the coming days/weeks that B is *never welcome* to approach or touch any of your children *ever again*. I would tell all concerned (pastor, mother, B) that, upon reflection, you have come to the conclusion that you feel uncomfortable with B having any contact with your dc. Tell her that beyond a civil *verbal* greeting when you must cross paths at church, you do not want her to have any contact at all (no talking, no touching) with your children.

 

THEN, if she crosses you later, I think a righteous, fear/anger-driven "WHY ARE YOU TOUCHING MY DAUGHTER!!!!!?????? YOU KNOW THAT IS NOT OK! GET AWAY FROM HER!" might be needed to drive the message home. (Frankly, if my friends/pastors at church disapproved of me saying that, It'd be time to find a new church.)

[hillfarm]

We attend a fairly large church and have a strong children's department and great workers. However, unless a specific directive is passed along to everyone and all are impressed with the seriousness of it, I could imagine a situation where someone like "B" could slip back in easily by making nice with one of the volunteers who had not been briefed on the situation or who had no idea of the seriousness of it. It is critical that the pastor or director of the children's department make everyone aware of all restrictions and that no one, expecially "B", is allowed in the area without proper clearance. It can get particularly troublesome during the busy holiday season when extra volunteers are helping who may not know what is going on and when there is so much confusion. "Here, let me help since you have your hands full. I used to work in the nursery so it's okay", might be all she would need to say to get back in.

 

We have not had a problem of this type at our church, that I know of, however we have had several situations when grandparents of non-custodial ex-spouses (that sounds odd, I mean the parents of an ex who does not have custody or visitation rights) have tried to collect the kids after church. They had no legal right to do so and in at least one of the situations, appeared to be planning to take the children out of state with them, without the knowledge or permission of the custodial parent. So stay vigilant

[bzymom]

The original post was really unsettling to me, so I am very glad to hear you have received support and have been able to take steps to protect your little one.

 

I hope B gets the help she needs, but I would have also been very concerned about her behavior. You did a great job!

[Greta]

One normally doesn't see kids that are completely out of control (brother) and 18 yo young women rushing at small girls when all is hunky dory at home - despite what it may look like from the outside.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

 

a

 

Those were my thoughts as well! Nakia, I think you are 100% right in protecting your daughter, and I'm glad that the pastor is being so supportive of that. I also hope that B gets some help, because it most definitely sounds like she has been abused. What a sad, horrible situation for everyone involved. :grouphug:

[simka2]

An alternate opinion here - not on how you handled the situation with your own daughter, but on this "B" girl -

 

It doesn't sound like she is obsessed with your daughter in a bad (evil) way to me. Incredibly misguided, yes, but not with harmful intent. It sounds like she has a pathological need to protect her for some reason. Like she is seeing your daughter as someone - possibly herself - who needs to be protected at all costs, from SOMETHING big and bad in the world. Something no one else is acknowledging. Something no one else either is seeing or ever saw (say, abuse she received as a child).

 

You say her younger brother is a holy terror. Any ideas why? One normally doesn't see kids that are completely out of control (brother) and 18 yo young women rushing at small girls when all is hunky dory at home - despite what it may look like from the outside.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

 

a

 

:iagree:Thanks for pointing this out! It sounds like she COULD have some projection issues.

 

 

Nakia, I am so glad this worked out the way it did!!! Although that day had to be very difficult for you, now you have a great witness to her behavior.

 

I understand anxiety about your kids, but I think you handled that beautifully!!!

 

There are reasons I habitually roam the halls at church. If you ever notice one of your pastors wives out in the hall give em a hug...they just might be on patrol ;).

[Catwoman]

Nakia, I think you are handling the whole situation beautifully and sensibly, and that you were not over-reacting in any way over the situation.

 

B clearly has problems, and although she certainly needs help, your main priority is to keep your child safe. I hope others will be watching this young woman, in case she decides to take another child "for a walk." Any number of horrible things could happen; I'm not saying that they would, but I would never take a chance of leaving her alone with a child. You mentioned in an earlier thread that B has exhibited inappropriate behavior around men, in addition to her obsession with your dd. That sets off all sorts of red flags and alarm bells in my head.

 

I'm so sorry you have to deal with this, but thank goodness your dd has you for her mom -- another mother might not have even noticed the problem, or been relieved that someone else was watching her child so she didn't have to be bothered, and who knows what could have happened.

 

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

Cat

[Nakia]

Thank you all so much!! I want to address each and every one of you individually, but I can't because my husband just said he wants to go camping! EEEEEKKKK! We were planning on going later this week, but it's supposed to rain all weekend, and if we go today, we might not get rained on. Gotta go pack us up!

[Mergath]

Did you see the OP's earlier thread about this girl? Among other things, she has attempted to carry the OP's daughter away from a gathering without asking (or even informing) the OP or her husband.

 

I agree that boundary issues doesn't equal abuser, but that doesn't mean the OP isn't justified in insisting on some basic boundaries being respected.

 

I'm not often in the majority around here, but I definitely agree with you all here. The previous post set off my creep-o-meter, and in this situation, the poster's dd's safety trumps B's feelings. Odds are that nothing bad would happen, but it's chance that you just don't want to take when a child is involved.

 

Honestly, op, I would find a different church. It sounds like the stress and risk just isn't worth it.

[Miss Sherry]

An alternate opinion here - not on how you handled the situation with your own daughter, but on this "B" girl -

 

It doesn't sound like she is obsessed with your daughter in a bad (evil) way to me. Incredibly misguided, yes, but not with harmful intent. It sounds like she has a pathological need to protect her for some reason. Like she is seeing your daughter as someone - possibly herself - who needs to be protected at all costs, from SOMETHING big and bad in the world. Something no one else is acknowledging. Something no one else either is seeing or ever saw (say, abuse she received as a child).

 

You say her younger brother is a holy terror. Any ideas why? One normally doesn't see kids that are completely out of control (brother) and 18 yo young women rushing at small girls when all is hunky dory at home - despite what it may look like from the outside.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

 

a

I highly doubt it has anything to do with the girl wanting to protect the OP's daughter. This girl has also shown to be obsessed with a grown married man. I doubt she wanted to protect him. But really,I think it would take a trained specialist to figure out what is going on in this girls mind. All you and I are doing on here is speculating. However, whatever is going on in this girls mind is causing her behavior to be inappropriate and this Mom's first priority is to look out for her little girl, not to figure out what is going on with someone's 18 year old.

 

I think the Mom here is on the right track in keeping her daughter away from this girl and listening to her own instincts that something is wrong. As a parent we do not need to know all of the facts before taking action. If we think our child is in an unsafe social situation it is our right and responsibility to act on their behalf. Which this Mom is doing for her little girl.

The 18 year old, of course, has needs of her own. But those need to be addressed by her own family and it sounds like the church is looking into seeing if they can figure out what is going on with her and how they can help her.

[Catwoman]

Good heavens! I was off the computer for a few hours, and when I came back to this thread, I saw that several messages had been posted and then deleted by the moderator. Everything seemed to be going along so nicely when I went out to the store!

 

Can anyone give me a brief, in-a-nutshell version of what happened, without starting a new controversy? (A PM would be fine, if it's not the sort of thing that should be posted to the thread.)

 

Thanks! :001_smile:

 

Cat

[unsinkable]

Am I the only one who thinks this girl might be below average intelligence?

[Heatherwith4]

Am I the only one who thinks this girl might be below average intelligence?

 

Yes, this occurred to me. I remember many children that were in special ed classes growing up that didn't adhere to social boundaries.

I still think that Nakia did the right thing, because she was creeped out by the situation. Moms have our instincts for a reason, after all.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Yes, this occurred to me. I remember many children that were in special ed classes growing up that didn't adhere to social boundaries.

I still think that Nakia did the right thing, because she was creeped out by the situation. Moms have our instincts for a reason, after all.

 

B's mother obviously has been clued in on the problem. Hopefully she will advocate for her daughter in an appropriate way - ie. get her help whether it is with counseling or social training etc.

[lisamarie]

I was thinking undiagnosed aspergers. Her behavior is very much like 2 other people I know who both have aspergers and have very little social awareness. One is a male and he is always in your personal space. The girl was the same way. They were both very very flirty to the point of being inappropriate. But they just did not get it that their behavior was not socially acceptable.

[1bassoon]

Late to the party (as usual) Nakia, but wanted to say :grouphug: and it sounds to me like you've handled it beautifully, and I'm glad the pastor has been so responsive.

 

Now. . .go have a good time camping! :D

[Guest janainaz]

I'm glad that worked out for you (and for B, hopefully). I read the thread when you originally posted it and I would have been on guard and concerned for my child. My kids and their safety always comes first, and if I ever feel the slightest bit uncomfortable, I listen to my instincts. I'd rather find out that I'm wrong about something than find out I was right and be sorry later that I did not trust my intuition. I imagine that there are many abused kids who might be helped if people trusted their inner feelings a little more.

[asta]

I highly doubt it has anything to do with the girl wanting to protect the OP's daughter. This girl has also shown to be obsessed with a grown married man. I doubt she wanted to protect him. But really,I think it would take a trained specialist to figure out what is going on in this girls mind. All you and I are doing on here is speculating. However, whatever is going on in this girls mind is causing her behavior to be inappropriate and this Mom's first priority is to look out for her little girl, not to figure out what is going on with someone's 18 year old.

 

I think the Mom here is on the right track in keeping her daughter away from this girl and listening to her own instincts that something is wrong. As a parent we do not need to know all of the facts before taking action. If we think our child is in an unsafe social situation it is our right and responsibility to act on their behalf. Which this Mom is doing for her little girl.

The 18 year old, of course, has needs of her own. But those need to be addressed by her own family and it sounds like the church is looking into seeing if they can figure out what is going on with her and how they can help her.

 

That was my first sentence.

 

And all anyone does on any message board is speculate.

 

I agree with Mergath: this whole thing is creepy, and it makes me wonder about this church. I'd find another place to worship.

 

 

a

[Nakia]

Well....

 

We are back from camping, and I have no idea what happened here while I was gone, lol. If anyone would like to pm me so that we can discuss it privately, please do so.

 

To answer a few questions/concerns that I was able to read after all the deleted messages:

 

I never said that I think B is/could be a pedophile. I don't know what her intentions are/were. She freaked me out big time with regards to my daughter. I have no regrets about how I handled it. I would rather seem like a paranoid mother than have regrets because I didn't listen to my gut.

 

I have been around B enough to think that, yes, she probably does have a below average intelligence.

 

And no, we will not, as of right now, be leaving the church. IF it had not been handled in the manner it was handled in, or IF we see that B is not under control from now on, then YES we will leave the church, after we have a meeting with the senior pastor. Patrick and I have already discussed this, actually.

 

Thanks again for all the support, and again, if anyone would like to discuss anything re: this thread via pm, or if you would like to address me personally, that would be fine with me.

[Nakia]

You say her younger brother is a holy terror. Any ideas why? One normally doesn't see kids that are completely out of control (brother) and 18 yo young women rushing at small girls when all is hunky dory at home - despite what it may look like from the outside.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

 

a

 

Thanks, Asta. I have no idea about her little brother, but I do suspect it might be a combination of ADHD and discipline problems.

 

Oh, and so far as holding your temper being a good thing. . .

 

It is generally a good idea to maintain control.

 

However, once ground rules are established, I can see a role for righteous anger if/when B crosses them. Personally, I would make it unambiguous sometime in the coming days/weeks that B is *never welcome* to approach or touch any of your children *ever again*. I would tell all concerned (pastor, mother, B) that, upon reflection, you have come to the conclusion that you feel uncomfortable with B having any contact with your dc. Tell her that beyond a civil *verbal* greeting when you must cross paths at church, you do not want her to have any contact at all (no talking, no touching) with your children.

 

THEN, if she crosses you later, I think a righteous, fear/anger-driven "WHY ARE YOU TOUCHING MY DAUGHTER!!!!!?????? YOU KNOW THAT IS NOT OK! GET AWAY FROM HER!" might be needed to drive the message home. (Frankly, if my friends/pastors at church disapproved of me saying that, It'd be time to find a new church.)

 

Stephanie, I honestly believe that if she comes near my children again, knowing that she has been told by me and the children's pastor that she is to stay away, I will not be able to contain my anger. I can only take so much, ya know? I will confront her head on. And it will not be pretty.

 

We attend a fairly large church and have a strong children's department and great workers. However, unless a specific directive is passed along to everyone and all are impressed with the seriousness of it, I could imagine a situation where someone like "B" could slip back in easily by making nice with one of the volunteers who had not been briefed on the situation or who had no idea of the seriousness of it. It is critical that the pastor or director of the children's department make everyone aware of all restrictions and that no one, expecially "B", is allowed in the area without proper clearance. It can get particularly troublesome during the busy holiday season when extra volunteers are helping who may not know what is going on and when there is so much confusion. "Here, let me help since you have your hands full. I used to work in the nursery so it's okay", might be all she would need to say to get back in.

So stay vigilant

 

Yes, I agree that this could happen. Everyone is going to have to be made aware of the situation in order for her to be kept away, so until I am certain that is done, and she is abiding by the rules, Cora will be with me or my husband at all times.

 

I'm glad that worked out for you (and for B, hopefully). I read the thread when you originally posted it and I would have been on guard and concerned for my child. My kids and their safety always comes first, and if I ever feel the slightest bit uncomfortable, I listen to my instincts. I'd rather find out that I'm wrong about something than find out I was right and be sorry later that I did not trust my intuition. I imagine that there are many abused kids who might be helped if people trusted their inner feelings a little more.

 

Thank you for saying this.

[Audrey]

I never said that I think B is/could be a pedophile. I don't know what her intentions are/were. She freaked me out big time with regards to my daughter. I have no regrets about how I handled it. I would rather seem like a paranoid mother than have regrets because I didn't listen to my gut.

 

 

 

 

Nakia, no worries... you were more than gracious in your descriptions of this girl and never used words that some seemed intent on putting in your mouth. Some people like to play the "let's exaggerate this as far as we can" game. :glare:

 

You have to go with your gut feelings (although, with that behaviour you described I think anyone would get their guard up!) to protect your children. There are probably multiple issues at play with this girl. You aren't the one who has to fix them, though. Your only job here is to protect your children, which is what you did.

 

I do hope this girl gets some help. She clearly needs it.

[Nakia]

Nakia, no worries... you were more than gracious in your descriptions of this girl and never used words that some seemed intent on putting in your mouth. Some people like to play the "let's exaggerate this as far as we can" game. :glare:

 

You have to go with your gut feelings (although, with that behaviour you described I think anyone would get their guard up!) to protect your children. There are probably multiple issues at play with this girl. You aren't the one who has to fix them, though. Your only job here is to protect your children, which is what you did.

 

I do hope this girl gets some help. She clearly needs it.

 

Have I ever told you how much I like you? I really do! :)

[Denisemomof4]

trust your mommy's instinct. I do not hear anything alarming from you initial post here and your other that you linked, but I can tell you that I had that feeling, that instinct, and it saved one of my children from being harmed by a pedophile. I simply could NOT let my kids out of sight with this VERY NICE MAN, a friend, anywhere around. I used to feel guilty about having a "feeling" about him because he was so nice, but I'm SO THANKFUL I trusted my instinct. Unfortunately, he harmed another boy. The family went on vacation for a week and left their teenage son to stay with this man, a NEW friend to them, for a week. :eek:

 

You are being a GOOD mama.:grouphug:

 

ETA: I take back what I said about not finding anything alarming about this girl's behavior. But I do think there may be something going on with her, perhaps undiagnosed. No social skills and no respect for boundaries make be think she may have a neurological issue like Aspergers. I certainly hope it's nothing more serious. Be very careful. If she has boundary issues, she may not respect the warning to stay out of the children's building. I'd make sure all teachers and helpers are made aware of the situation and pay especially close attention to Cora when she goes back to her class.

Edited September 11, 2010 by Denisemomof4

[Denisemomof4]

Am I the only one who thinks this girl might be below average intelligence?

 

something sounds off........... and I did question her level of intelligence....

[EthiopianFood]

Stephanie, I honestly believe that if she comes near my children again, knowing that she has been told by me and the children's pastor that she is to stay away, I will not be able to contain my anger. I can only take so much, ya know? I will confront her head on. And it will not be pretty.

 

I don't think you're over-reacting at all, but I do want to give something to think about. IF (and we don't know either way) this child does have a disability, how would you react to her? What if she just doesn't understand? I think there is a way to be very firm, not at all coddling or giving in, without venting on her as might be appropriate with someone who knows full well what they are doing, IYKWIM. If she does have a disability, it is her mom that needs to be talked to, as she is the only one who can get her the help she needs. She should NOT be allowed to do this, and that is why you should do whatever will be the most effective in stopping her, you know? I hope this doesn't sound like I think you should feel sorry for her. I don't. I'm just trying to be pragmatic. :001_smile:

[Nakia]

I don't think you're over-reacting at all, but I do want to give something to think about. IF (and we don't know either way) this child does have a disability, how would you react to her? What if she just doesn't understand? I think there is a way to be very firm, not at all coddling or giving in, without venting on her as might be appropriate with someone who knows full well what they are doing, IYKWIM. If she does have a disability, it is her mom that needs to be talked to, as she is the only one who can get her the help she needs. She should NOT be allowed to do this, and that is why you should do whatever will be the most effective in stopping her, you know? I hope this doesn't sound like I think you should feel sorry for her. I don't. I'm just trying to be pragmatic. :001_smile:

 

I totally appreciate what you are saying. That's why I am praying about what to do if she does not respect the boundaries that have been set. I do know that after she was told by the married man (that I mentioned in the other thread) that she was touching him inappropriately and that she was only allowed to shake his hand that, she stopped doing it to him. But I have seen her touching other adults in a similar way, especially men. So I know that she knows what "no" means, but maybe she doesn't understand that means "not appropriate for all situations like this". Does that make sense? And I do feel like I have handled her in a gentle, but firm way. That obviously didn't work, which is why I had to go to the pastor. I also know he was gentle but very firm, along with moving her out of the children's ministry area, so I hope that she will now understand. We will see what happens on Sunday.

 

I will not yell at her, even though I know that's what I will want to do. Sometimes it's hard to control that flesh reaction, but I will. I maybe did react too harshly with her last Sunday at church, and I am kinda sorry I did that, but it stopped her from grabbing Cora. Like I said, I have been praying hard about this for several weeks. If she does have a disability, her mother needs to find out/acknowledge it/whatever and educate the youth and children's pastors so they can place her in a position to help in church without being around children until she learns boundaries.

 

I honestly have no idea what will happen. I cannot solve this girl's problems. I truly believe she has a need that only God can fill. I don't know her past or what her future holds, but hopefully this will be a wake-up call for her mother to really evaluate what is going on. I know B has plans for her future because she told me she wants to go to college to be a teacher. More than anything, I want to protect my child, and I will. But I also would never want to quench any desire for Jesus that this young woman has in her heart.

Edited September 11, 2010 by Nakia