My teacher's evaluator said my kindergartener lacks writing skills !

[blessedmom3]

We had our annual evaluation yesterday. My kindergartner reads at 7th grade level (according to readingkey.com and golmipitas ) , spells at 4th grade and has a good comprehension since he just finished Charlotte's web and Mr. Popper's Penguins .

 

She gave him a test in comprehension . My son was reading something about ants and was saying "Oh , really I didn't know they can do that" " wow how smart " ... and other remarks showing how well he was comprehending.

 

After that she asked him to re-tell the story and of course , he re-told like a kindergartner : short sentences , incomplete thoughts ...

The evaluator ( who is a ps Kindergarten teacher ) said I need to work with him on comprehension .

She said after reading a chapter I have to ask him who is the main character , the plot , etc...I thought you do these things with older kids . I do ask him about what he reads and he is able to tell me with details about the book , but I don't teach him literary terms yet .

 

Are K-ers expected to read chapter books nowdays? And do all this literature analysis ? Did she forget he is only 6 ?

 

Also she said he lacks writing skills and I need to do something for writing.I said we do classical and I told her about Writing with ease which we just started . She did saw his big binder with his history & science notebook. He wrote his narrations there with pics and everything . His spelling was great and I thought his creativity too . We did american history for the first three months then we started ancient history . I thought his notebook looked really impressive for a K-er ! But she did not seem to be impressed at all , instead she criticized his writing , comprehension and not enough geometry in his math book ! ( we have used Horizons + Singapore) .

 

 

I wonder what does she do in K with her kids and are they expected to be so advanced nowdays?

 

Have you had a similar experience with an evaluator?

Next year I won't do that , I will opt for SAT test instead !

 

Sorry to be so long . I guess am disappointed . I am looking for encouragement .:)

Edited May 30, 2010 by blessedmom3

[Ohdanigirl]

From personal experience, I have noticed that the public school talk it up a lot. This is a generalization, of coarse, but I was told all these things when my ds were little, and at times I would worry, but I have come to see that much of it is just talk.

 

I bet you are doing a great job. Your ds is doing great and it sounds like you have really ignited his curiosity. After all, isn't that what K is supposed to de, ignite their curiosity and set the foundation for a love for learning. I'd say, just let it roll off your back.

 

Danielle

Edited May 30, 2010 by USDGAL

[Guest Cheryl in SoCal]

Personally, it sounds like he is doing great and she has an axe to grind or something. I'll bet she is embarrassed by how badly he makes her students look in comparison and was trying to make herself feel better.

[3Rivers]

WAs this eval. required?

My first thought and gut reaction is that this teacher was MAJORLY threatened. I would say he is far above his peers -- which would be the kids that she teaches, I'm guessing. I don't mean to knock someone I don't even know, but I just really think she is backpeddling and trying to appear as "the professional" when in fact she should give you a huge pat on the back.

 

It's been a while since I read WTM, but I remember that "schoolwork" needn't even begin until 1st grade. Maybe someone else could comment on that, but what I remember about Kindergarten in the good old days was playing house and Red Rover and learning about letters, counting and colors. Your son sounds advanced to me!

 

But about writing skills. I skimmed your first paragraph until I found the key word: "he". Most boys develop fine motor skills later than girls. He is doing just fine. I can assure you.

 

:)

[abbeyej]

You know, I would try to set this aside for a few weeks. It's done -- great! -- now you can put it aside and focus on enjoying your summer. :)

 

But then, sometime in late June or early July, I would pull back out your notes from her evaluation and ask yourself, "Is there any truth to what she said?"

 

Maybe there isn't. Maybe she's crazy and she totally missed the mark. Perhaps her experience is just so far from your approach that it's apples and oranges...

 

*But* maybe there are also things you will want to consider tweaking. Is he doing a handwriting program in addition to WWE? I would not consider WWE adequate *on*its*own* for K/1. I think it's a fantastic program! But I would also expect him to be doing a handwriting sheet (and it's *much* more productive if you're standing over him correct his grip and making him start in the right spots etc than just handing him a handwriting sheet while you change the laundry, etc) and a few words and sentences here and there through the day in other subjects. If you're doing all that, fantastic! :)

 

Maybe some of her questions about reading comprehension could be helpful as well. Certainly it sounds like he's getting the gist of what he reads. But it can be helpful, even with little ones, to ask them questions that help them learn to identify to most important aspects of a text. You don't have to be using literary terms yet. But if you're going to say, "Who's the most important person in this story?", you might as well also say, "Yep! The mailman! We could also say he's the main character."

 

It sounds like your son is doing great. And try not to be *hurt* by what the evaluator said. Really, truly, set it aside for a few weeks. But later, consider whether there are any nuggets of wisdom hidden in there. ... You might decide there aren't! ;) And that's okay. ... But you might also think, "Oh, you know, I never thought of it like that... But maybe we could make a little tweak here or there..."

[2_girls_mommy]

Well, I have a K girl, and he is reading and probably writing better than she. We are in set 2 of Bob books, and it is still a sounding out struggle. But it is getting better, and that is all that I am concerned about.. her progress. I think all kids would have trouble talking to a stranger and giving a good answer, but of course all she knows is what she heard in the eval.

 

Maybe her job requires her to give constructive criticisms or to let you know what you should be working on? Of course all kids have to work on comprehension. That is part of early education. He shouldn't have it mastered in K. Don't take that personally. And what were the criticisms on writing? Letter formation, handwriting ? Just curious.

 

Anyway, I am just giving you a pat on the back. Keep up the good work!

[gpsings]

I hope this isn't inflammatory, but I find in homeschooling, the biggest critics are teachers. They don't want us to forget for one second that THEY are the professionals. I'm sure there are exceptions to this rule, but I haven't personally met any.

I would NOT take that to heart. Talk to other homeschoolers.

[2_girls_mommy]

BTW, my mother is a p.s. teacher, so she tells me all of the time what is what grade level (whether I ask or not..)

According to her a ker should start out drawing pics of a story. Later they should be dictating to you the story that you write down for them (narrations) and eventually writing a sentence. It sounds like in your history/science folder he is doing that. That is why I wondered if the problem was his handwriting, or his writing skills. Of course I haven't looked at his work. But it sounds to me like if my mom was the evaluator that he would be right on track.

[In The Great White North]

I bet you are doing a great job. Your ds is doing great and it sounds like you have really ignited his curiosity. After all, isn't that what K is supposed to de, ignite there curiosity and set the foundation for a love for learning. I'd say, just let it roll off you back.

 

:iagree: Maybe she was related to this kindergarten teacher, stuck in a system that has forgotten what kindergarten is supposed to be:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=179375&highlight=kindergarten+teacher+toys

[Ellie]

Was this evaluation required by law??? Goodness. And is it required for first-graders to be tested/evaluated???

 

I believe you can edit your subject line; if you click on the "edit" button on your post, there's a "go advanced" option that allows you to enter a whole new subject line.

[johnandtinagilbert]

sorry there is a mistake in the title and I don't know how to edit :-)

 

 

We had our annual evaluation yesterday. My kindergartner reads at 7th grade level (according to readingkey.com and golmipitas ) , spells at 4th grade and has a good comprehension since he just finished Charlotte's web and Mr. Popper's Penguins .

 

She gave him a test in comprehension . My son was reading something about ants and was saying "Oh , really I didn't know they can do that" " wow how smart " ... and other remarks showing how well he was comprehending.

 

After that she asked him to re-tell the story and of course , he re-told like a kindergartner : short sentences , incomplete thoughts ...

The evaluator ( who is a ps Kindergarten teacher ) said I need to work with him on comprehension and recommended "The art of comprehension ".

She said after reading a chapter I have to ask him who is the main character , the plot , etc...I though you do these things with older kids . I do ask him about what he reads and he is able to tell me with details about the book , but I don't teach him literary terms yet .

 

Are K-ers expected to read chapter books nowdays? And do all this literature analysis ? Did she forget he is only 6 ?

 

Also she said he lacks writing skills and I need to do something for writing.I said we do classical and I told her about Writing with ease which we just started . She did saw a big binder with his history & science notebook. He wrote his narrations there with pics and everything . His spelling was great and I thought his creativity too . We did american history for the first three months then we started ancient history . I thought his notebook looked really impressive for a K-er ! But she did not seem to be impressed at all , instead she criticized his writing , comprehension and not enough geometry in his math book ! ( we have used Horizons + Singapore) .

 

 

I wonder what does she do in K with her kids and are they expected to be so advanced nowdays?

 

Have you had a similar experience with an evaluator?

Next year I won't do that , I will opt for SAT test instead !

 

Sorry to be so long . I guess am disappointed . I am looking for encouragement .:)

Sounds like you had a stellar year. Find a new evaluator, one who is friendlier toward educational philosophies that don't shadow public education.

 

The kers here can hardly read, write Terribly and certainly couldn't answer literary anaylsis questions. They can, however, tell you the latest Nike shoes, pop star, or whose baby daddy is stayin' at his neighbors house.

 

Brush this woman off.....:grouphug:

[Evergreen Academy]

I think your evaluator was looking for something to criticize, unless she comes from some crazily advanced public school system the likes of which I have never seen around here (and this is a fairly competetive area)!

 

I have had two kids (my oldest) in ps. One had a high reading level and lots of writing skills in K, and was advanced to first grade; the other was held back by the limited classwork they did. There is lots of inventive spelling around here, whole language reading, and truly, how on earth could narration and literary discussion go on with a group of K-ers? I just can't imagine that it's happening in public school - we certainly never saw it.

 

I think it's fine to take some of her remarks as areas where you can continue to help your son grow, as perhaps they aren't as strong as some of his other amazing skills, but from what you have described they are by no means deficient!

 

I believe that while classical and Charlotte Mason philosophy (we fall somewhere inbetween) are different, they are both similar in that their philosophy about writing is very different from that of most public schools. Friends have told me that the schools now stress writing very early, getting as much as you can on paper, regardless of spelling or sentence structure. There are lots of fancy little worksheets as well, for planning and mapping, etc. This is very different from an approach that requires carefully copying good writing, and narrating thoughts, hopefully in an increasingly orderly manner as the child gets older.

 

I just want to share that knowing this difference has caused me lots of anxiety as I have educated ds 12 (going into the 8th year - wow! of schooling him since K), and I have worried about how this "different" method will work out. Last week, as I sat watching him and my two ds9 work on (lovely) papers and narrations, I realized, not for the first time, this works! In the early years it will look different than the public school, but it works beautifully over time (and I believe looks much better in the end).

 

Re: math, Horizons is known for being advanced, I wouldn't worry.

 

Enjoy your precious little ds, do not stress, he is indeed just 6, sounds like he is doing great, and has plenty of time for literary analysis in the future! For now, mudpies, reading and chatting about it should be just fine. And do the SAT next time for sure!

Blessings,

Aimee

mom to 6 great kids ages 7-19, schooling grades 1, 3, 3 and 7

[lauracolumbus]

I think she's nuts based on what I've seen of kindergartners and kindergarten standards. Your son sounds like he's doing extremely well.

 

Laura

[siloam]

Ummm, I don't try to teach writing or comprehension till 2nd grade. Yet all my kids, so far, have scored 98 or better on their CAT 5 for the end of 3rd grade.

 

Sheesh!

 

Heather

 

[Murmer]

I think (hope) the reason she mentioned the comprehension as she did is because in ps most reasding levels are assessed both by accuracy and comprehension with both getting harder as they go up levels. So regardless of age the expectation of a child reading chapter books would be higher than for a child reading kinder picture books. So hopefully she was just saying he is reading so accurately that his comprehension needs to improve for the level of text he is reading not based on his age...which would mean your son is doing extremely well! As for writing many kinders are expected to be able to construct and write their own sentences based on invented spelling and from what I have seen that is not how the classical education approaches writing so I could see the misunderstanding between writing approaches. I am trying to be optimistic that there is a disconnect between her beliefs and what you son did but I really think she was jut being super picky.

[Entropymama]

Sounds like you're doing amazing; your ker is way ahead of mine, and I'm not worried about mine at all. Try to keep in mind that teachers try to evaluate based on standards that (IMO) are bizarre.

[Crimson Wife]

She's probably just following the state standards without considering whether those standards are age appropriate. The following is from the CA state standards for K:

Comprehension and Analysis of Grade-Level-Appropriate Text

2.2 Use pictures and context to make predictions about story content.

2.3 Connect to life experiences the information and events in texts.

2.4 Retell familiar stories.

2.5 Ask and answer questions about essential elements of a text.

Personally, I don't give a whit what some committee of bureaucrats in Sacramento think all children in a certain grade should be able to do. But this evaluator is likely stuck within today's standards-obsessed mindset.

[brewer13399]

I hope this isn't inflammatory, but I find in homeschooling, the biggest critics are teachers. They don't want us to forget for one second that THEY are the professionals. I'm sure there are exceptions to this rule, but I haven't personally met any.

I would NOT take that to heart. Talk to other homeschoolers.

 

 

I have found this to be very true. I am friends with my sons now ex PS kindergarten and she is very critical of what I would have to say or what is going on. She feels like I have no clue what I am doing. :D

[Just Robyn]

Maybe her job requires her to give constructive criticisms or to let you know what you should be working on? Of course all kids have to work on comprehension. That is part of early education. He shouldn't have it mastered in K. Don't take that personally

 

That's exactly what came to my mind. She may be required or just feel she should give some sort of constructive criticism. Some parents are looking for help from an evaluator and may feel like they wasted their time if all they got was a "Good job!"

 

I think (hope) the reason she mentioned the comprehension as she did is because in ps most reasding levels are assessed both by accuracy and comprehension with both getting harder as they go up levels. So regardless of age the expectation of a child reading chapter books would be higher than for a child reading kinder picture books. So hopefully she was just saying he is reading so accurately that his comprehension needs to improve for the level of text he is reading not based on his age...which would mean your son is doing extremely well!

 

And if it's the case that his comprehension does not match the level of the book he is able to decode (because his knowledge of phonics is advanced, but he is still 6) then having him read books somewhere between a K level and the level of Mr. Popper's Penguins may be wise. There's no rush! Try a lower level book; he may enjoy it. :001_smile:

 

Personally, I don't give a whit what some committee of bureaucrats in Sacramento think all children in a certain grade should be able to do.

 

:iagree:but for Iowa, where I am. I homeschool because I want my children to be able to go at their own pace, be that ahead of or behind the public schools, not try to match some expectations written for all children as if they were all the same and learned everything at the same pace.

[Tidbits of Learning]

This is my personal take on it having had children in public school. Yes, kindergarten children are expected to fill in plot, character, and such on their AR tests if they test reading in the 2nd grade and up levels. Also, the writing and such has gotten earlier and earlier. My ds who was in ps k year before this brought home a wonderful drawing and writing about fish. The teacher made the paper bleed with needs a period, start a new paragraph, and capitalize. Yet, they hadn't taught them any of it. However, all of those are on the state test in 4th grade. Now instead of praising creativity, teachers are to correct mistakes that haven't been taught yet.

They do this because of state tests. This woman was evaluating like your child is going to take the state tests in the future and yes they do evaluate public school k this way b/c they are looking into the future and wanting good scores for funding and well jobs.

I would find another evaluator unless she is assigned to you. I don't know how it works there.

[blessedmom3]

Yes , in Florida we are required to evaluate or test .

 

She was not talking about handwriting which is great , she really liked his cursive , but about his creative writing . I thought there was enough of that in his science&history notebook . On each page , he wrote 2-3 sentences.

 

My son is officially in K since he was born two weeks after the cut off date which is Sept 1st but I consider him a 1st grader . He finished 1st grade Horizons , Singapore 1 , Phonics 1s grade and now is still doing WWE and CLE LA 2 but he was tested for K this year.

So even working at 1st grade or higher it did not seem good enough for K ! What will I do next year with my next K-er who at this point seems to be just an average 5 yo boy and is not near as advanced as my oldest was at this age?

 

I don't think she meant that we have to work on his comprehension to match his high reading level . She said in her class the students read a chapter book then they have to answer comprehension questions on a worksheet and that's what I should do also . I have doubts many k-ers read chapter books but who knows maybe that's how it is here in the US ( I was born and educated in Romania where school doesn't start before 6).

 

Well, maybe I will use Drawn in the heart of reading for next year but from the reviews I see , it's not recommended before 3rd grade . I don't want to give more worksheets than what we already have , we spend 2-3 hours/day on school(+ he reads a lot independently ) .

 

I do ask him questions from Sonlight IG for most of the books he reads but I was upset to see that she had such a high expectation from him , he is only 6 ! At 6 to be honest , I couldn't read or even write my name , why this hurry to teach kids so early ? I got trapped into this too since I started "preschool" with him since he was 3 .In countries where they start later (Asia or Europe) the kids usually do better than US kids who since they are toddlers are expected to know the ABC's . Isn't that too much too soon ? I think it is , however , I am doing the same things just to try to meet the evaluators , parents in law , and state expectation !

[TracyP]

:grouphug:

 

This has been mentioned already but I think one of two things is going on.

1. She has issues with homeschoolers so was trying to be a downer.

2. She felt she had to give constructive criticism and was just trying to give ideas on what to do next, not what he needed to be "caught up".

 

Either way, I would try to find someone new if you can. Your son sounds like he is doing AWESOME - don't stress.:001_smile:

[Carol in Cal.]

The best way to kill his love of reading will be to make him analyze everything to death. Don't do it! His brain is not there. Talk about books and enjoy them together at this stage. Don't go to literary terms for a while.

 

Also, regarding creative writing, if he is inclined that way encourage him, but it's truly not a capability that is required for academics. I would say that a good way to encourage him would be to make up stories together--you say a line, and then he says one--maybe in the car. Then perhaps once or twice a month ask him to dictate a made up story to you so you can write it down. Read him poetry as well as fiction, and by all means keep reading to him. Lots of parents stop doing that when their children start to read well, and I think it's a mistake. Poetry introduces the experience of hearing tight, evocative language, and of thinking about precision in writing as well as beauty. It's really helpful to hone creativity.

 

Your evaluator is crazy. She has no idea what is reasonable for that age. She should be congratulating you rather than making you feel anxious. You are doing a great job.

[Just Robyn]

How important is it for you to follow the evaluator's recommendations? Will they require you to put your ds in public school if you don't? If you are required to follow their advice, maybe you could throw in a couple of workbooks like Writing Skills and Reading Skills or a couple of the Spectrum books so you can put it in the portfolio. If it is just advice and you are free to ignore it (at least when it's so minor), then ignore it and keep doing what is best for your ds.

[Renee in NC]

I am in big trouble, then. Here I thought it was great that my 6yo dd (Ker) was doing well because she can basically read, add and subtract (though she doesn't know all the facts yet), and write her letters fairly neatly (and spell basic things.)

 

She is nowhere near the level of what that K teacher wanted. I looked up the FL state standards for Kindergarten Language Arts and her expectations do not match hers either.

 

Was this an evaluator that was recommended by a homeschool group? Did she give you the "shows progress" letter?

[tennismomkelly]

:grouphug:

I'm sorry that she made you feel so bad. You are doing a great job! Take whatever she said with a grain of salt. Whoever made up these ridiculous expectations for a K'er is completely out of touch with the growth and development of kids. Seriously. I can assure you that your son is doing the same if not more than his PS peers. Just because PS systems "expect" the children to perform to their educational standards does not mean that they can or do. Sure, I can write a list of standards for my homeschool but that doesn't mean that my child is developmentally ready to achieve them. You're instincts are right. He's only 6. ;)

[Tidbits of Learning]

Yes , in Florida we are required to evaluate or test .

 

 

 

We have several options here as well. I would recommend giving the CAT test beginning in 1st grade. It isn't that bad. If it is approved for Florida, then that would be my advise. Testing is a lot easier and you don't have to alter your curriculum to match the public school if you are allowed to test with IOWA or CAT or Stanford.

My 1st grade ds took the CAT test this year and did well. It took a couple of hours one day and we were done. A week later I had his results to file and keep on record.

That would be my advise. If testing is an option, then I would do it instead of having an evaluation by someone who will be comparing it to her "classroom", "students", and "expectations". She wanted to see report cards and worksheets. Busy work. That is what the public school is about.

Also, even if he is working 2nd grade work next year, test what level he would be if he was in public school. Testing isn't hard and it sounds less stressful than finding the perfect evaluator.

Edited May 30, 2010 by OpenMinded
added something

[Murmer]

I don't think she meant that we have to work on his comprehension to match his high reading level . She said in her class the students read a chapter book then they have to answer comprehension questions on a worksheet and that's what I should do also . I have doubts many k-ers read chapter books but who knows maybe that's how it is here in the US

!

 

That evaluator Is so developmentally inappropriate! Do not have him do comprehension worksheets they are a kill joy and time Waster! If you know he is comprehending that is good enough. If this is what a kinder teacher is doing at what would be your neighborhood school it's a good thing your homeschooling because that type of classroom would kill the learning spirit of any child.

[junepep]

First, I think that you're doing an amazing job. I hope that my daughters are as advanced in Kindergarten!!

 

Second, i think that this is what she's talking about when she's making claims that her students are reading chapter books and performing literary analysis: http://www.fcrr.org/FCRRReports/PDF/K-PALS.pdf

 

Please note, this program links higher level students (at the K level) and expects them to teach or coach students who are not performing at a high level. This is frankly, a bit absurd, but it can make it APPEAR to someone who doesn't know the truth about what they're really doing in FL Kindergarten public schools that "all" of the students are reading chapter books and analyzing the material. In reality, they're just taking advantage of the handful of advanced students that show up in every K class. Those students are doing the work, and the lower students (because they're all filling in the same sheet together (not individual sheets)) are getting a free ride.

 

I'm not going to say that she was lying to you, but essentially she was stretching the truth to it's furthest extent. Perhaps she really believes that all of her students are somehow achieving at the highest level, but I sincerely doubt it. I think that she was deliberately trying to put you down and make you afraid that you had chosen the wrong path for your child. I would not take her comments at face value or change your quite rigorous academic program because of what she says.

[3peasinapod]

She said in her class the students read a chapter book then they have to answer comprehension questions on a worksheet and that's what I should do also . I have doubts many k-ers read chapter books but who knows maybe that's how it is here in the US ( I was born and educated in Romania where school doesn't start before 6).

 

Oh my goodness! Chapter books in Kindergarten???!!!! This is absolutely ridiculous. My 5yo K'er is reading level 2 Bob books! One sentence per page. This is absolutely mind boggling.

[Renee in NC]

First, I think that you're doing an amazing job. I hope that my daughters are as advanced in Kindergarten!!

 

Second, i think that this is what she's talking about when she's making claims that her students are reading chapter books and performing literary analysis: http://www.fcrr.org/FCRRReports/PDF/K-PALS.pdf

 

Please note, this program links higher level students (at the K level) and expects them to teach or coach students who are not performing at a high level. This is frankly, a bit absurd, but it can make it APPEAR to someone who doesn't know the truth about what they're really doing in FL Kindergarten public schools that "all" of the students are reading chapter books and analyzing the material. In reality, they're just taking advantage of the handful of advanced students that show up in every K class. Those students are doing the work, and the lower students (because they're all filling in the same sheet together (not individual sheets)) are getting a free ride.

 

I'm not going to say that she was lying to you, but essentially she was stretching the truth to it's furthest extent. Perhaps she really believes that all of her students are somehow achieving at the highest level, but I sincerely doubt it. I think that she was deliberately trying to put you down and make you afraid that you had chosen the wrong path for your child. I would not take her comments at face value or change your quite rigorous academic program because of what she says.

 

The description of that program doesn't say anything about chapter books or literary analysis?

[Alphabetika]

Sounds to me like she felt threatened and was looking for something - anything! - to be critical about.:glare:

[Sasharowan]

I live in FL and all 3 of mine that have passed K were barely reading Bob books at that age and still passed the evals with flying colors. And have every year since. I wold contact your local homeschool group and look for one that is more homeschool friendly.

[junepep]

The description of that program doesn't say anything about chapter books or literary analysis?

 

Sorry Renee -- that was the quick link to info about the program, there's more in depth info on it too. I'll pop over and see if I can find the other site that I was on again :)

[Mommy22alyns]

How is it even possible for a K'er to "lack writing skills" unless they can't even hold a pencil??? :confused: Creative writing, seriously? The majority of kids are still working on forming letters, forget about forming comprehensive thoughts! :tongue_smilie: to that evaluator.

[mollies73]

I'm flabergasted! My child who just finished first grade is no where near that. And my 3rd grader was just introduced to cursive this year, is reading books like Sarah, Plain and Tall, and lapbooking. And he scored in the 99% for overall language arts. I agree with the other posters. I think testing may be a better choice. It's just the facts, no subjectivity.

[melmichigan]

If you have the option to test in the coming years I would definately do that, at whatever grade level your son would be in PS.

 

I guess it's possible that policy dictated that she had to give some kind of recommendation, but she could have made that clear. If not, she is seriously delusional. :tongue_smilie:

 

Sounds like you are doing great! I would not change a thing.

[Nestof3]

Wow -- I didn't do any of that in K. I didn't even formally school in K. I certainly didn't need to ask my boys if they knew who the main character in a story was. This is the sort of thing they have to do in public school b/c they don't have time to talk one-on-one with the children. Perhaps because my kids just naturally talked about books I read, I didn't feel I needed to have a scripted conversation about the book. In my opinion, at that age, a book should just be enjoyed. I didn't start formal handwriting then either.

 

I provided a rich environment for them and just let them be kids. I just spent a lot of one-on-one time with them while they learned, but I didn't feel the need to make school out of it.

 

You know, I would try to set this aside for a few weeks. It's done -- great! -- now you can put it aside and focus on enjoying your summer. :)

 

But then, sometime in late June or early July, I would pull back out your notes from her evaluation and ask yourself, "Is there any truth to what she said?"

 

Maybe there isn't. Maybe she's crazy and she totally missed the mark. Perhaps her experience is just so far from your approach that it's apples and oranges...

 

*But* maybe there are also things you will want to consider tweaking. Is he doing a handwriting program in addition to WWE? I would not consider WWE adequate *on*its*own* for K/1. I think it's a fantastic program! But I would also expect him to be doing a handwriting sheet (and it's *much* more productive if you're standing over him correct his grip and making him start in the right spots etc than just handing him a handwriting sheet while you change the laundry, etc) and a few words and sentences here and there through the day in other subjects. If you're doing all that, fantastic! :)

 

Maybe some of her questions about reading comprehension could be helpful as well. Certainly it sounds like he's getting the gist of what he reads. But it can be helpful, even with little ones, to ask them questions that help them learn to identify to most important aspects of a text. You don't have to be using literary terms yet. But if you're going to say, "Who's the most important person in this story?", you might as well also say, "Yep! The mailman! We could also say he's the main character."

 

It sounds like your son is doing great. And try not to be *hurt* by what the evaluator said. Really, truly, set it aside for a few weeks. But later, consider whether there are any nuggets of wisdom hidden in there. ... You might decide there aren't! ;) And that's okay. ... But you might also think, "Oh, you know, I never thought of it like that... But maybe we could make a little tweak here or there..."

[catz]

ROFL! To me it sounds like that teacher knows nothing about gifted learners. My son was reading way above level in K and first and he attended PS. I heard the EXACT same thing. He was the best reader in his class by a long shot. One day she asked him to describe the setting of a story. He had no idea what she wanted because he had never been asked that before! He discussed the plot. She said he must be having comprehension issues and kept him at the same reading level all year. I discovered later, she just couldn't handle kids above the level she stuck him at all year.

 

I wouldn't worry about it for one minute unless she has a degree in gifted/talented education! Plenty of K kids aren't reading *OR* writing and they're just fine!

[Nestof3]

I know! Have a look at the SOLs for kindergarten. I remember one of them was something like: "Make sure the child knows you read from left to right." Most kids aren't even reading in K!

 

I have a hard time believing a public school teacher with 15 children is accomplishing more than the OP with one.

 

How is it even possible for a K'er to "lack writing skills" unless they can't even hold a pencil??? :confused: Creative writing, seriously? The majority of kids are still working on forming letters, forget about forming comprehensive thoughts! :tongue_smilie: to that evaluator.

[junepep]

I think that I figured it out. I was looking at both the FIAR ppt pages (go to google, and type in Florida Kindergarten reading comprehension -- the ppt presentation will be the second presentation) and the FCRR site at the same time while I was burning some CDs for a car trip tomorrow ;) (think distracted and not paying proper attention to anything that I was doing :glare:) when I hit about slide 93/94 and saw the Student Center activities I must have assumed that they were the same as the other link that I'd posted -- but FIAR tests for listening comprehension in K, not reading (and print awareness is optional) o.O

 

Sorry about the confusion, I shouldn't have been posting while multitasking!! However, now that I have succeeded in confusing myself even further as to how exactly they're working on reading comprehension in FL classrooms I'll share more links with no real substantive commentary --

 

Here's a quick link regarding what they're being asked to teach according to a K teacher: http://timmonstimes.blogspot.com/2009/05/new-kindergarten-team.html -- I didn't post it earlier since this is a teacher of the year writing about the standards in what looks to be one of the best districts in FL, but ... maybe you'll find it useful... anyway here's the Star Books Wiki that he's talking about in the blog too: http://kindergartencce.wikispaces.com/Reading+-+Star+Books this links to activities and such so that you can all get a feel for the level of rigor and compare it to your program @ home -- PLEASE NOTE THAT THESE ARE READ ALOUDS!! (again, one of the best schools in FL & there is no information on how these expectations actually implemented by the teachers or understood by the vast majority of their students either, but this is partially how they're filling up their 2+ hours of LA work). This district follows the houghton mifflin reading which I don't believe is known for being particularly rigorous either, but I didn't look for links on that because I wasn't interested in using it.

 

So to summarize, my first post was in error. It should really say: I don't really see ANY reading comprehension being asked of K'ers in FL standards -- only listening comprehension (see my comment about FIAR-K above). So really I'm more confused than ever by this teacher's claims o.O

[Scarlett]

We had our annual evaluation yesterday. My kindergartner reads at 7th grade level (according to readingkey.com and golmipitas ) , spells at 4th grade and has a good comprehension since he just finished Charlotte's web and Mr. Popper's Penguins .

 

She gave him a test in comprehension . My son was reading something about ants and was saying "Oh , really I didn't know they can do that" " wow how smart " ... and other remarks showing how well he was comprehending.

 

After that she asked him to re-tell the story and of course , he re-told like a kindergartner : short sentences , incomplete thoughts ...

The evaluator ( who is a ps Kindergarten teacher ) said I need to work with him on comprehension .

She said after reading a chapter I have to ask him who is the main character , the plot , etc)

 

Oh PUH Leas!!!!!!...I am a little aggitated tonight at the ridiculousness of people in general. He is 5!!!!!!! He sounds wonderful. He sounds bright. Ignore that teacher. Good grief.

[Shifra]

I can relate to this story, and I even (eventually) figured out why the teachers do this. First of all, some background. I have a college aged daughter, a 9 year old daughter and a 6 year old son and except for preschool for my middle daughter, all three of them have been in a Jewish religious school for all of their schooling (ie. I don't homeschool). I am also telling you this to explain to you that I am not a inexperienced first-time mother (not that that is a sin, although many educators will try to make you feel like it is :lol:).

 

In any event, last year while my son was in preschool, he would not answer any questions whatsoever about any stories or analyze them in any way. I felt like you guys did--he's only in preschool, and it is inappropriate to expect him to be able to analyze a story (where's all the knowledge of Piaget when we need him :lol:?). Well, I picked up from the library The Whole Language Kindergarten, and in there it says that children should be expected to predict stories using the pictures, should make guesses about how the story is going to end, should be able to say whether the characters did the right thing, etc. So then I realized that this is a Whole Language approach to reading. That's why the teachers are doing this analyzation thing. So while you are clearly educating your child very well, you should understand that you are not doing the Whole Language thing, and if you child will be evaluated in this manner, you may want to brush up on what the expectations are going to be for next year (ie. you should probably read up on the Whole Language approach).

 

I also agree with many of the other posters that teachers feel threatened by home educators in particular and by parents who are knowledgable and assertive in general. It could very well be that your evaluator had to give a dig because you accomplished all of this without a school's input. After all, if you did this so well, who says that all parents will not decide to home educate and all those teachers could lose their jobs? (Not that I consider that a likely outcome; many parents use schools as daycare or do want to teach their children for whatever reason). Also, many parents can educate well because they do not have the distractions that some schools have. Some schools have uninvolved parents, poor home environments for many reasons, children with severe problems, bad neighborhoods, poor school facilities, children whose first language is not English etc. So give yourself a pat on the back for teaching your child so well, go ahead and read up on Whole Language so that way your son will be ready for the questions next year, and try not to worry.

[Renee in NC]

I think that I figured it out. I was looking at both the FIAR ppt pages (go to google, and type in Florida Kindergarten reading comprehension -- the ppt presentation will be the second presentation) and the FCRR site at the same time while I was burning some CDs for a car trip tomorrow ;) (think distracted and not paying proper attention to anything that I was doing :glare:) when I hit about slide 93/94 and saw the Student Center activities I must have assumed that they were the same as the other link that I'd posted -- but FIAR tests for listening comprehension in K, not reading (and print awareness is optional) o.O

 

Sorry about the confusion, I shouldn't have been posting while multitasking!! However, now that I have succeeded in confusing myself even further as to how exactly they're working on reading comprehension in FL classrooms I'll share more links with no real substantive commentary --

 

Here's a quick link regarding what they're being asked to teach according to a K teacher: http://timmonstimes.blogspot.com/2009/05/new-kindergarten-team.html -- I didn't post it earlier since this is a teacher of the year writing about the standards in what looks to be one of the best districts in FL, but ... maybe you'll find it useful... anyway here's the Star Books Wiki that he's talking about in the blog too: http://kindergartencce.wikispaces.com/Reading+-+Star+Books this links to activities and such so that you can all get a feel for the level of rigor and compare it to your program @ home -- PLEASE NOTE THAT THESE ARE READ ALOUDS!! (again, one of the best schools in FL & there is no information on how these expectations actually implemented by the teachers or understood by the vast majority of their students either, but this is partially how they're filling up their 2+ hours of LA work). This district follows the houghton mifflin reading which I don't believe is known for being particularly rigorous either, but I didn't look for links on that because I wasn't interested in using it.

 

So to summarize, my first post was in error. It should really say: I don't really see ANY reading comprehension being asked of K'ers in FL standards -- only listening comprehension (see my comment about FIAR-K above). So really I'm more confused than ever by this teacher's claims o.O

 

That fits the FL sunshine standards. I read over the standards and the students aren't expected to do a whole lot on their own - most of the "writing standards" were about "participating" in writing projects.

[Chris in PA]

Wow! And I thought PA had restrictive laws...... We don't even have to have a child evaluated until they turn 8 years of age.

 

You are doing a fine job with a K'er. Don't let anyone make you doubt that for one second. I personally think that a ps K teacher had to find something negative to say. I agree with the posters who have said that she was probably intimidated by your ds.

 

Keep up the awesome job!!!

[Greta Lea]

I used to teach p.s. K. Honestly, they do try to teach all that nit-picky stuff in reading to the K'ers but most of the time it's over their sweet little heads!

 

Sounds like this little K'er is doing GREAT! Ignore your evaluator. I think she felt threatened...yet another homeschooled kid doing more than just fine!!!

[Dmmetler]

I can believe that the whole class LISTENS to chapter books and then does worksheets on them-that's not all that uncommon. But I can tell you this- in my DD's former school, where the kids are screened coming in and kids who are substantially behind simply aren't accepted, you don't find many K kids reading chapter books-most get there by the end of 1st. Except for my DD (who reads the way your son does), the kids ranged from DRA 6 (Bob books) to DRA 18 (Amelia Bedelia) at the end of the year.

 

 

Having said that, it is true that on the DRA test, which it sounds like your son was doing, comprehension gets more involved as the kids get into higher levels, but there are still right answers. One reason why the DRA isn't considered to be very accurate more than about 2 grades above current grade level-because it's simply not reasonable to expect a 6 yr old, even if he DOES read like a 13 yr old, to respond as a 13 yr old would to the same written stimulus. Nor is it reasonable to expect a 6 yr old to write like a 13 yr old.

 

I wonder if the teacher didn't realize that your son's notebooks were actually his written responses, without prompting? Most K kids don't write with correct grammar, punctuation, and spelling, and it isn't all that uncommon to do group writing as copywork in K-I know quite a few teachers who do so. If you do, you end up with impressive looking results-but it doesn't demonstrate the child's writing abilities, while the free writing "journals" are full of misspellings, grammar errors, and other mistakes. If she's not used to early readers who are advanced in spelling as well, she may not realize that your child really WAS coming up with this on his own. and be looking for more evidence of free, creative writing.

 

 

Regardless, my suggestion would be to just take the test-my DD did the SAT-10 this year, and wasn't bothered by it at all. In fact, she came out of it saying that it was "SOOO EASY!!!". It's pretty obvious that this evaluator doesn't know much of anything about children like your son or classical homeschooling.

Edited May 30, 2010 by Dmmetler2

[melmichigan]

I can relate to this story, and I even (eventually) figured out why the teachers do this. First of all, some background. I have a college aged daughter, a 9 year old daughter and a 6 year old son and except for preschool for my middle daughter, all three of them have been in a Jewish religious school for all of their schooling (ie. I don't homeschool). I am also telling you this to explain to you that I am not a inexperienced first-time mother (not that that is a sin, although many educators will try to make you feel like it is :lol:).

 

In any event, last year while my son was in preschool, he would not answer any questions whatsoever about any stories or analyze them in any way. I felt like you guys did--he's only in preschool, and it is inappropriate to expect him to be able to analyze a story (where's all the knowledge of Piaget when we need him :lol:?). Well, I picked up from the library The Whole Language Kindergarten, and in there it says that children should be expected to predict stories using the pictures, should make guesses about how the story is going to end, should be able to say whether the characters did the right thing, etc. So then I realized that this is a Whole Language approach to reading. That's why the teachers are doing this analyzation thing. So while you are clearly educating your child very well, you should understand that you are not doing the Whole Language thing, and if you child will be evaluated in this manner, you may want to brush up on what the expectations are going to be for next year (ie. you should probably read up on the Whole Language approach).

 

 

Ah yes, the dreaded picture walk. My DD never did get the point, she said it ruined the story to look at all the pictures first.

[TandLMommy28]

My thoughts on your experience was this... I don't think she probably thinks your son is behind in any way at all. There's no way! Most PS Kers I know can barely recite their ABCs and counting to 20 is a struggle... Perhaps she was just giving you some pointers to catch his writing skills up to the rest of his skills? Just a thought... I get that way with my daughter because she is so ahead in reading and writing and stuff. I was actually saying "She's so behind in math" to someone... and really she's not (she's doing MUS Alpha)... she's just not as advanced in math as she is in other areas.

 

I really think maybe the teacher was just trying to give you some helpful hints in his weakER area. It's surely not a weak area, just not as strong as his out of this world reading ability, ya know? If she's expected, for the sake of the eval, to point on something you can work maybe that's all she could scrape up.

 

As far as Kers being expected to read chapter books, not in our school system! I believe they are expected to read short "I Can Read" books by the end of second grade. In K, they assume they've never seen the alphabet before and go from there... In fact one of the charter schools in our town has a billboard up saying "Imagine your kindergartner reading!" because they are one of the only schools in town to even attempt it. If you son had his eval in THIS town, they'd probably send him off to college! :)

[Snowfall]

I wish my DD were as advanced as your son! She can read level 2 BOB Books, but only very reluctantly. Her handwriting is abysmal and she has no idea what a plot or main character are. But you know what? Anyone who talks to my kid for 10 minutes can see that she's SMART and she knows a lot. And I'm proud of her and what she's accomplished this year. ;)

 

Ah yes, the dreaded picture walk. My DD never did get the point, she said it ruined the story to look at all the pictures first.

 

Yeah, I was recently involved in an exchange with a public school teacher who listed "taking clues from pictures" as a reading comprehension skill. :001_huh: Uh, perhaps I missed something, but looking at pictures isn't reading and reading isn't looking at pictures. I have no idea what she expects these kids, who require pictures to tell the story, to do once they progress to books without pictures. I guess after you see enough pictures with enough words, you get good at figuring out the words on their own merits? I don't know. I'm stumped.

 

I went to private school for the first few years and I was never taught to read based on the pictures or guess based on context. I was taught that sometimes you have to guess what a word means based on context, but never that you have to guess what a word is based on context. I remember when I switched to public school and kids who got to a word they didn't recognize would say "blank" rather than trying to sound it out. I never knew what this was about until I was reading a book on literacy a year or two ago, which explained that this was a strategy for kids who weren't taught phonics. It keeps them reading, without slowing them down with the details of...oh, what the text SAYS. The point of reading without knowing what you're reading is something I simply can't grasp, and I was shocked to find out, 20-something years later, that those classmates of mine had been taught to do that on purpose!