My Barnes and Noble story

[Tangerine]

Just a bit of irony here......that book is sold at.....

 

 

.....

 

 

 

are you ready for it?

 

 

 

 

 

Barnes & Noble. :001_huh:

 

 

Oooh. I didn't even think about the fact that it was a bookstore. I wonder if she would be willing to "bite the hand" as it were!

[Sahamamama]

A tangle with child services comes with a much higher risk of uprooting or even destroying a family. Calling the police isn't something that should be done lightly. Waiting in ambush and falsifying a report is unconscionable.

 

Barb

 

Yes, THAT is what would motivate me to take action (see below) -- because, as traumatic as the incident was for all of you, it COULD have been much worse. For example, what if you HAD gotten upset in the store? Would the police have decided to handcuff you and cart you away, right then and there? Would they then have called Family "Protective" Services to place your six minor children in foster care? :001_huh: How traumatic would THAT have been for your children? What if you HAD asked, "Am I being charged?" and then tried to walk away from the lecture? Would you have been permitted to do this without repercussions?

 

I would also want to ask a few questions (not that you can get the answers):

 

 

• Does the store employee know that you homeschool? Does she have something personal "against" homeschoolers in general?

• What IS the store's policy about unattended children? Was the policy followed? Why or why not?

 

Barbara --

 

Not to alarm you, but I would take this incident VERY seriously. I'm not sure how much energy I would invest in trying to reform the store or the store employee.... You're talking B & N.... IMO, nothing's going to bear any fruit there....

 

BUT, I would make an appointment to speak to the Chief of Police (in person, not on the phone). At that meeting, I would ask, "Would I have been within my legal rights to ________________ [ask if I'm being charged, then walk away, plus whatever you want to know for future reference]."

 

I would also convey to the police chief the emotional impact of the incident on your family. Tell the chief how Mia fell apart in the car, tell what she said about never calling 911. Tell how this has affected your entire family's sense of safety and security. I would express how this encounter with law enforcement has made our family feel less protected and secure as citizens. Be "objective" -- KWIM? You want to say this in a way that shows you are a put together person, but you you also want -- and need -- to communicate the impact of the incident. The Arrowhead Chief of Police NEEDS to hear this from you.

 

I'd discuss with the chief the humiliation and frustration of being "verbally beaten up" by the other officer's harangue over parenting styles. I would explain how and why I came to my decision to create an opportunity for my children to practice their skills of independence. Tell the chief that you are the best person to raise your kids -- you are their MOTHER, you know them, and you know how you want to raise them. The officer who responded overstepped his/her role of investigating a (false) report, and began giving you unsolicited and unwarranted parenting advice. :glare:

 

No, thank you.

 

Finally, I would want to know what, if anything, will be in my "police record" -- and for how long? Will Family Protective Services be called about this incident? You have a right to know. HTH.

 

http://www.peoriaaz.gov/content2.aspx?ID=13267

 

http://www.peoriaaz.gov/content2.aspx?ID=14095

 

http://www.peoriaaz.gov/PoliceDepartment/psu_complaint_form.asp?id=14099

 

CITIZEN'S PIPELINE EMAIL TO THE CHIEF:

CitizensPipeline@peoriaaz.gov

Edited May 17, 2010 by Sahamamama

[ThatCyndiGirl]

Again I will say that I agree that it was mishandled, but....

 

 

I also wonder if this is such a big gray area. I mean, the OP left her 11 year old child with an 8 year old child. (both hers) What if it had been a 10 year old child with a 9 year old child. What if the ages were only slightly different? What if the ages were the same, but the kids were not as responsible? What if the OP would have told the B&N workers, "I'm going right next door. My kids have a cell phone and I will be back in 20 minutes"? There are just too many variables here to say that one scenario is right, but another is not.

 

I DO think that the worker had an axe to grind and I DO think that the police officer probably took out his righteous indignation on the OP, most likley because he has seen too many instances were a kid or kids left alone caused harm or irritation.

 

I wonder if that store has a policy on unattanded children and at what age that takes effect/ends?

[littlebug42]

I think it highly likely that the worker did not realize how old your children are. I googled this and found reference to another instance in California where some children were not allowed to stay in the Children's section unattended because it was against company policy. Also, if she only heard a snippet of your conversation (i.e, Target) she may not have realized that you were going to be close by. I would say that she was afraid something would happen to your kids or caused by your kids and she would be held responsible as she was the adult present. You may not be a person that does it regularly but it is a problem with retail, libraries etc where people leave their children there in the absence of child care, sometimes for long periods of time. Our library has this problem, particularly on spring break etc where you will see the same kids sit there all day.

[chiguirre]

Just a bit more ammunition if you need it. An 11 year old can take the Red Cross Babysitting course.

 

http://www.redcross.org/portal/site/en/menuitem.53fabf6cc033f17a2b1ecfbf43181aa0/?vgnextoid=5ced914124dbe110VgnVCM10000089f0870aRCRD

 

I think she can sit in B&N for 20 minutes with an 8 yo.

[PinkInTheBlue]

Just my thoughts but I believe both the police station and Barnes and Noble deserve a serious complaint phone call. Since you were not doing anything illegal or harmful, the police have NO business lecturing your parenting decisions! Barnes and Noble weren't being harmed or misused in any way and your were returning to give them your money. They too have NO business making decisions about your parenting!

 

Now, I would love to hunt down those parents who drop their children off in the children's section to run and scream for an hour. Should I call the police? :)

 

Added: P.S. I just wanted to add this in support of my local Barnes and Noble. They love us and we love them. They know our names and the names of our children. They were thisnwonderful from the day they opened. We are in there 2 to 4 times a week. Just wanted to put it out there that now all B&N are this way. :)

Edited May 17, 2010 by PinkInTheBlue

[ThatCyndiGirl]

I think it highly likely that the worker did not realize how old your children are. I googled this and found reference to another instance in California where some children were not allowed to stay in the Children's section unattended because it was against company policy. Also, if she only heard a snippet of your conversation (i.e, Target) she may not have realized that you were going to be close by. I would say that she was afraid something would happen to your kids or caused by your kids and she would be held responsible as she was the adult present. You may not be a person that does it regularly but it is a problem with retail, libraries etc where people leave their children there in the absence of child care, sometimes for long periods of time. Our library has this problem, particularly on spring break etc where you will see the same kids sit there all day.

 

 

I agree with the bolded part. You have many reasons to be upset.

 

However, if I were the worker I would have been REALLY upset thinking that I was suddenly responsible for someone else's kids AND if something would have happened would I have been responsible? Some companies would fire or severely reprimand an employee for not taking care of the situation ahead of time. ("What do you mean you heard the mother say that she was going to Target, then saw her leave, then saw those kids sitting there without an adult, but didn't think to call the police/911 until you saw blood?!?!") We live in a society where people will sue at the drop of a hat, many times when it was clearly their fault. Maybe she was really worried? :001_huh:

[Quiver0f10]

 

However, if I were the worker I would have been REALLY upset thinking that I was suddenly responsible for someone else's kids AND if something would have happened would I have been responsible? Some companies would fire or severely reprimand an employee for not taking care of the situation ahead of time. ("What do you mean you heard the mother say that she was going to Target, then saw her leave, then saw those kids sitting there without an adult, but didn't think to call the police/911 until you saw blood?!?!") We live in a society where people will sue at the drop of a hat, many times when it was clearly their fault. Maybe she was really worried? :001_huh:

 

I agree with this. The employee is supposed to ignore the kids and leave them be, but what if something would have happened? Who would be held responsible?

[jujsky]

I would be lodging a formal complaint with Barnes & Noble....you have a police report to back up your statement!

 

That employee needs to be, at the very least, reprimanded.

 

Geesh :grouphug::grouphug: to you!

 

I agree! I'd also return my purchases and buy them on Amazon.

[Marsha]

If she was truly worried she would have asked the children where their mother went or at least looked around the store for her or had another employee look while she watched the kids.

I think it was an overreaction.

[BigMamaBird]

I have the greatest amount of respect for the police. I have two uncles who are cops and I know the junk they have to put up with every day. That said, they have no business lecturing you if you have done nothing wrong. You are within your rights to ask an officer "am I being detained?" If you've legally done nothing wrong and they don't take you into custody, you have every right to leave. If anyone deserved a dressing down, it was the spiteful woman who filed a groundless complaint. I'm sorry you and your children had to deal with this.:grouphug:

 

I don't know if it makes you feel better, but I was allowed to go to the mall alone at 12 and don't think what you did was in any way irresponsible.

[Aggie]

I agree with the bolded part. You have many reasons to be upset.

 

However, if I were the worker I would have been REALLY upset thinking that I was suddenly responsible for someone else's kids AND if something would have happened would I have been responsible? Some companies would fire or severely reprimand an employee for not taking care of the situation ahead of time. ("What do you mean you heard the mother say that she was going to Target, then saw her leave, then saw those kids sitting there without an adult, but didn't think to call the police/911 until you saw blood?!?!") We live in a society where people will sue at the drop of a hat, many times when it was clearly their fault. Maybe she was really worried? :001_huh:

 

I agree with Cyndi here. Add to the fact that the materials weren't paid for yet and I suspect the employee thought she was between a rock and a hard place. You know your dc would not destroy anything. She didn't have that knowledge and probably had experience with other kids to the contrary.

 

And this is a private business, not a public library or park, so policies might be quite different regarding unattended minors....

[Matryoshka]

I agree with Cyndi here. Add to the fact that the materials weren't paid for yet and I suspect the employee thought she was between a rock and a hard place. You know your dc would not destroy anything. She didn't have that knowledge and probably had experience with other kids to the contrary.

 

Oh, please. Didn't we just have a huge thread on how common it is these days for people to let their 11-12 yos wander around the malls in packs for the entire afternoon, wandering from store to store, often egging each other on to questionable behavior, with numerous doors to the outside where they could leave or be abducted? My 11yo tells me that all the kids in her ballet class are always talking about hanging out at the mall. :glare: But it's so scary you have to call the police if an 11yo is sitting quietly in a book store reading by herself?

 

Yeah, and if she was that concerned, ask her how old she is and where her mother went.

 

And that cop seriously said he wouldn't let his 16yo into a store by himself??? Um, does he let him drive?

 

I'd be

[Aggie]

Oh, please. Didn't we just have a huge thread on how common it is these days for people to let their 11-12 yos wander around the malls in packs for the entire afternoon, wandering from store to store, often egging each other on to questionable behavior, with numerous doors to the outside where they could leave or be abducted? My 11yo tells me that all the kids in her ballet class are always talking about hanging out at the mall. :glare: But it's so scary you have to call the police if an 11yo is sitting quietly in a book store reading by herself?

 

Yeah, and if she was that concerned, ask her how old she is and where her mother went.

 

And that cop seriously said he wouldn't let his 16yo into a store by himself??? Um, does he let him drive?

 

I'd be

 

 

This is part of the problem...the *other* kids who are rude, unparented, and prone to questionable behaviors have made all kids suspicious. If I had to deal with the unsupervised teens all day, I probably wouldn't want to see any unsupervised kids in the store.

 

What should the store policy be? I don't think she should have called the cops right away, but where is the line for employees? Can they let some kids stay and ask others to leave?

 

The police, imo, did cross the line.

[amy g.]

I'm very sorry this happened to you. It sounds just horrid.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Again I will say that I agree that it was mishandled, but....

 

 

I also wonder if this is such a big gray area. I mean, the OP left her 11 year old child with an 8 year old child. (both hers) What if it had been a 10 year old child with a 9 year old child. What if the ages were only slightly different? What if the ages were the same, but the kids were not as responsible? What if the OP would have told the B&N workers, "I'm going right next door. My kids have a cell phone and I will be back in 20 minutes"? There are just too many variables here to say that one scenario is right, but another is not.

 

I DO think that the worker had an axe to grind and I DO think that the police officer probably took out his righteous indignation on the OP, most likley because he has seen too many instances were a kid or kids left alone caused harm or irritation.

 

I wonder if that store has a policy on unattanded children and at what age that takes effect/ends?

 

I have to join you in thinking that some of the posts have been harder on the employee than necessary.

 

I don't know that I would be interested in interacting with minor children if I thought that they had just been left unsupervised while their parent went down the road for an undetermined amount of time. The library that we used to use had large numbers of middle school students hanging out after school. I found that asking them to change their behavior was rarely effective. Recently I had a teen yell at me for asking him to stop popping his head into the women's restroom at the library.

 

I do think that the employee should have brought her manager in on things. (Just from a manager's point of view, I would be disturbed to have something that warranted police assistance that I wasn't aware of ahead of time.)

 

I know the OP wasn't interested in a discussion, but I simply see a bit more justification for the employee's actions. Also, it is one thing for me to send my 10 or 12 year old to the store or biking around our neighborhood and another thing to leave them with their younger brother in a store for an extended period.

[Cammie]

I am sorry you had such a horrible experience! I would have been horrified as well.

 

I do wonder about B&N policies. I know there used to be a great B&N where I lived. They had a train table for kids to play with, benches and it was really family friendly. They ended up removing all that stuff and I wonder if the company found it to be more of a hassle to be a "hang out" place than it was worth? It did get people in the store but I am not sure it increased sales. We certainly didn't necessarily buy much more. But we would often go there to play for some time.

 

Perhaps the response you saw (while it was totally over the top) was in reaction to some corporate policy to not have B&N be a hang out place for kids anymore?

 

Just wondering.

[Lolly]

For those who are saying the saleswoman was following company policy, wouldn't it have made more sense to stop the mother from leaving the kids there in the first place. She heard the mom say she was leaving for a few minutes. She saw the mom leaving. If she knew children of the age she assumed these to be when calling the police were not allowed to be left alone in the store, why on earth would she not say something to the parent before they left? All it would take would be a, "Excuse me, ma'm! We have a policy against having children left unattended." No, I think the saleswoman was in the wrong. If the she was busy and did not see the mother leave to stop her then at the MOST, she should have asked the kids where their mother was. Then, they could have called her to come back if it was against store policy.

 

With all that, I see no reason not to leave children of that age in the bookstore while I am next door. I wouldn't have thought twice about it. Police officers were also in the wrong.

[In The Great White North]

I wonder if that store has a policy on unattanded children and at what age that takes effect/ends?

 

Does it really matter whether the company has a policy on unattended children or not, if they keep it such a secret? (I can't find one on their website.)

 

My favorite sign (which I have seen in several stores):

 

Unattended children will be given an espresso and a puppy!

 

Just a bit more ammunition if you need it. An 11 year old can take the Red Cross Babysitting course.

 

http://www.redcross.org/portal/site/...0089f0870aRCRD

 

I think she can sit in B&N for 20 minutes with an 8 yo.

__________________

 

 

:iagree: My dc took this course and were babysitting at 11!

 

Add to the fact that the materials weren't paid for yet and I suspect the employee thought she was between a rock and a hard place. You know your dc would not destroy anything. She didn't have that knowledge and probably had experience with other kids to the contrary.

 

 

In most bookstores, including every B & N I've ever been in, the customers are expected to handle the merchandise before it is paid for.

[asta]

Barnes and Noble Corporate Management Team

 

I guarantee you someone there will find out who is running the Arrowhead store. ;)

 

 

a

[ChristusG]

Wow....just wow. That's crazy!!!

[melissel]

For those who are saying the saleswoman was following company policy, wouldn't it have made more sense to stop the mother from leaving the kids there in the first place. She heard the mom say she was leaving for a few minutes. She saw the mom leaving. If she knew children of the age she assumed these to be when calling the police were not allowed to be left alone in the store, why on earth would she not say something to the parent before they left? All it would take would be a, "Excuse me, ma'm! We have a policy against having children left unattended." No, I think the saleswoman was in the wrong. If the she was busy and did not see the mother leave to stop her then at the MOST, she should have asked the kids where their mother was. Then, they could have called her to come back if it was against store policy.

 

:iagree: with every word. As Barb said, the details the police knew indicated that the saleswoman knew exactly when she left and (though she knew) where she'd gone. There were plenty of opportunities to address the situation before the police "needed" to be called.

[Harriet Vane]

:grouphug:

 

I am really sorry such an awful thing happened. There is no justification for the employee's choices or that of the police.

 

Something similar just happened to me when I was scolded for allowing my ds to play basketball unsupervised at church. He fell and broke his teeth. I was just upstairs--I had been teaching a children's church class. He is a responsible 9yo, and he was playing with a handful of other unsupervised kids just as they do every Sunday. I never at any stage considered a lawsuit--it was just an unfortunate accident. I spent the week dealing with the fall-out--ds had to go to the dentist three different days, and there is more work to do in his mouth in future as well. At the end of this hard week I was told that I should have supervised.

 

Your situation sounds far worse than mine, but I can relate to the feelings of shaking with rage. Your kids are old enough to walk to the bookstore on their own and spend their allowance on a book--certainly they are old enough to sit there for half an hour on their own.

 

And for all those talking about the hordes of badly behaved kids in stores:

 

I worked in two different bookstores over the course of six years through high school and college. I have dealt with poorly mannered customers, and I have dealt with badly behaved children. However, the vast majority of the people AND children who came to our stores were quiet and well behaved. And frankly, I had more troubling incidents with badly behaved adults than I ever did with children.

 

Bottom line--it is absolutely, totally unacceptable to call the police in this situation, and absolutely, totally unacceptable for the police to abuse their power by harassing and intimidating someone who had broken no laws.

[MBM]

When the cops arrived to find the girls sitting quietly and learned their actual ages they told me I had done nothing wrong, but they were red-faced and hyped up on adrenaline from the initial report so they felt they had to make a point. I had to endure a half hour lecture about how if they *had* been 5 and 7 I would be in handcuffs and would have lost my children. Which is ridiculous because I would never children that young alone. One of the cops insisted that although I had broken no law but that the law is only the law and it doesn't go far enough. When I asked him what, in his estimation, was a reasonable age to allow a youngster a little bit of rope, he said he doesn't allow his 16yo son to go into stores without him. In his opinion, no child of any age should be allowed out of sight.

 

:001_huh:

 

The only effect of that particular conversation was the younger child bursting into tears in the car and swearing she will never call 911 if she's in trouble because the cops will probably find some way to blame me and send them to foster care. The sad thing is, she's probably right.

 

I realize I'm straying off topic but the point is, once the cops are called they feel the need to justify the trip....to *do* something...particularly when children are involved. There is no leeway if someone doesn't agree with your parenting style and has an axe to grind. Had I lost my composure or if one the cops was having a bad day I could have been in handcuffs and my 6 minor children in foster care. I suspect calling the police was a move by a bitter, underpaid employee to retaliate (in her mind) for all the wild, ill-behaved children she cleans up after all day long. She couldn't throw my daughters out for their behavior because they were sitting quietly, but she probably just didn't like it on principle. Otherwise, why would she blatantly lie about their ages? There is no way the cops would have come out in the first place had she told the truth.

 

 

I think you should mention the way the police behaved in front of your children and that now your daughter doesn't feel safe around them. The police in our area do not like hearing that children fear them. It sounds like you were dealing with two hot heads. How are they going to behave in a serious situation where they truly need to keep their cool? And I honestly doubt the cop will have his eye on his 16-year-old son so closely that he won't allow him to hang out at a bookstore without Daddy. Children do have to grow up.

 

Having said that, this is my world to a T. My youngest is almost 13, but he's not allowed to go anywhere without me because the wishy-washy law in Illinois states that the legal age to leave a child home is 14. I have two neighbors who are quick to call the police if they suspect anything. Once my husband and I were walking at the park with our son who was about 30 feet in front of us within our view. One of the neighbors and his wife were there walking their dogs and angrily confronted us as to the whereabouts of our son (not in a nice way). So we pointed out that he was right in front of us. What idiots. They're both doctors, so I'm sure whatever they say would be held in high esteem.

 

Ugh. Anyway, I'm sorry you and your children had to go through this. Situations like these make me wonder if common sense exists anymore.

[ConnieB]

:grouphug:

 

Something similar just happened to me when I was scolded for allowing my ds to play basketball unsupervised at church. He fell and broke his teeth. I was just upstairs--I had been teaching a children's church class. He is a responsible 9yo, and he was playing with a handful of other unsupervised kids just as they do every Sunday. I never at any stage considered a lawsuit--it was just an unfortunate accident. I spent the week dealing with the fall-out--ds had to go to the dentist three different days, and there is more work to do in his mouth in future as well. At the end of this hard week I was told that I should have supervised.

 

 

 

But would there have been a different outcome if you had been on the sidelines supervising? Were the boys roughhousing instead of just playing a normal game of basketball? And if this is something that has been going on for a while....and you were teaching a class, then perhaps the powers that be should have taken responsibility for either putting a stop to the game playing without supervision, OR have gotten some supervisors. Turning a blind eye to the games all this time does not mean it's suddenly YOUR fault because your son got injured...they legally do have a responsibility because the game was on their property and since it's been going on for a while, they could be seen as having given their approval by not stopping it. I know you don't plan to sue....and the fear that you would is likely what caused their overreaction, but they're not blameless.

 

If there was nothing wrong with the boys playing unsupervised last week/month, why suddenly is it YOUR fault they weren't supervised. What about the other boys' parents....were they teaching a class? If not, they should have been supervising, or at the very least have taken some responsibility now instead of it being all YOUR fault.

 

Sheesh....Sorry...it just annoys me to no end when people make these types of judgments.

 

Sadly, now the outcome will probably be that no one is ever allowed to play basketball unsupervised at the church, when the fact is that the accident probably would have happened had every one of those parents been standing there too.

 

Supervising does NOT guarantee that children don't get hurt.

 

Boys fall when playing basketball....most don't even get a scrape, some get minor scraps and others break their teeth.....some even die from head injuries in a room that was FULL of adults. Does this mean no boys should ever play basketball...supervised or unsupervised? Of course not.

 

I hope that your son's teeth repairs go well....my DH has two false front teeth from being kicked in the mouth during soccer as a youth....he had repairs done several times over the many years since and about 3 years ago opted to do the implants so he didn't have to keep getting the repairs. So far, so good, and they're much stronger than the repairs.....he can bite an apple instead of having to eat them cut up, lol. Minor things in life.

[HeidiKC]

The store manager is Jessica Madaglia.

 

Have you been able to contact her? She was all cheery on the phone and wanted to know how she could help me. I said I just needed her name, but was SO tempted to tell her that a large group of potential customers have been discussing the terribly inappropriate actions of one of her employees, how it affected a family, and how it should be handled!

[Harriet Vane]

But would there have been a different outcome if you had been on the sidelines supervising? Were the boys roughhousing instead of just playing a normal game of basketball? And if this is something that has been going on for a while....and you were teaching a class, then perhaps the powers that be should have taken responsibility for either putting a stop to the game playing without supervision, OR have gotten some supervisors. Turning a blind eye to the games all this time does not mean it's suddenly YOUR fault because your son got injured...they legally do have a responsibility because the game was on their property and since it's been going on for a while, they could be seen as having given their approval by not stopping it. I know you don't plan to sue....and the fear that you would is likely what caused their overreaction, but they're not blameless.

 

If there was nothing wrong with the boys playing unsupervised last week/month, why suddenly is it YOUR fault they weren't supervised. What about the other boys' parents....were they teaching a class? If not, they should have been supervising, or at the very least have taken some responsibility now instead of it being all YOUR fault.

 

Sheesh....Sorry...it just annoys me to no end when people make these types of judgments.

 

Sadly, now the outcome will probably be that no one is ever allowed to play basketball unsupervised at the church, when the fact is that the accident probably would have happened had every one of those parents been standing there too.

 

Supervising does NOT guarantee that children don't get hurt.

 

Boys fall when playing basketball....most don't even get a scrape, some get minor scraps and others break their teeth.....some even die from head injuries in a room that was FULL of adults. Does this mean no boys should ever play basketball...supervised or unsupervised? Of course not.

 

I hope that your son's teeth repairs go well....my DH has two false front teeth from being kicked in the mouth during soccer as a youth....he had repairs done several times over the many years since and about 3 years ago opted to do the implants so he didn't have to keep getting the repairs. So far, so good, and they're much stronger than the repairs.....he can bite an apple instead of having to eat them cut up, lol. Minor things in life.

 

Thanks for your sympathy.

 

The game is casual shooting around and scrimmaging that goes for 15-30 minutes after church, so not long. There are adults constantly in and out either accessing the kitchen or retrieving their kids or coming from the youth room. No one was rough housing. They were just playing basketball, and ds fell. My presence in the room would not have changed what happened. As far as I am concerned, ALL of the kids who go to the gym are also old enough to play alone at a park or go buy themselves a candy bar or walk to a friend's house on their own, so they are old enough to shoot hoops for a short time.

[melissel]

The store manager is Jessica Madaglia.

 

Have you been able to contact her? She was all cheery on the phone and wanted to know how she could help me. I said I just needed her name, but was SO tempted to tell her that a large group of potential customers have been discussing the terribly inappropriate actions of one of her employees, how it affected a family, and how it should be handled!

 

:lol: I would have the same problem!

[Teachin'Mine]

The store manager is Jessica Madhelia.

 

:D

 

ETA: Well isn't that news that I posted. lol

Edited May 17, 2010 by Teachin'Mine

[angela in ohio]

For those who are saying the saleswoman was following company policy, wouldn't it have made more sense to stop the mother from leaving the kids there in the first place. She heard the mom say she was leaving for a few minutes. She saw the mom leaving. If she knew children of the age she assumed these to be when calling the police were not allowed to be left alone in the store, why on earth would she not say something to the parent before they left? All it would take would be a, "Excuse me, ma'm! We have a policy against having children left unattended." No, I think the saleswoman was in the wrong. If the she was busy and did not see the mother leave to stop her then at the MOST, she should have asked the kids where their mother was. Then, they could have called her to come back if it was against store policy.

 

I agree with this. I think this particular employee was wrong to call the police rather than just tell mom up front not to leave children unattended in the store. I do believe B&N is perfectly within their rights not to have an 11 and 8 yo unsupervised in the store, but I think it was handled poorly by this particular employee.

[HeidiKC]

Maybe you could ask Jessica for a written statement concerning this incident since there are so many of us interested in her response... and so that she isn't bothered by DOZENS OF CALLS FROM US ASKING ABOUT IT AND GIVING OUR OPINIONS!!!!

 

Seriously, and maybe if she does that and has a nice response, you could post her e-mail and we can all respond that we appreciate her concern toward your family and the way she handled it. HOPEFULLY!!! The manager may be a perfectly decent person and it's just that old witch that needs to be dealt with. Unfortunately Jessica probably gets all kinds of complaints, and very little positive feedback. I think she deserves it if she apologizes and handles this well. I am anxious to see how this is resolved... keep us posted! And good luck!

 

I also agree that the police should be contacted and hopefully meet with your children to explain that a mistake was made, and that they should not hesitate to ask for help when they need it!

[Wendi]

I have to join you in thinking that some of the posts have been harder on the employee than necessary.

 

I know the OP wasn't interested in a discussion, but I simply see a bit more justification for the employee's actions. Also, it is one thing for me to send my 10 or 12 year old to the store or biking around our neighborhood and another thing to leave them with their younger brother in a store for an extended period.

 

You make some good points, but I just cannot get over the fact that the employee made no attempt to find out where the mother was, and let the children know they couldn't sit there unattended. What if the employee misheard the conversation she overheard, and the mother was not at Target, or any other store, and was in another section at B&N? Maybe she said, "I'm going to Target for 30 min." then added, "I forgot your grandma's birthday's coming up. I'm going to browse for books about cooking for a little bit first. I'll be in that section if you need me."

 

The employee could have said to the kids, "Your mom needs to stay with you. Do you know where she is?" Then the kids could have said, "Yes, she's next door. I'll call her and let her know to come back ASAP." Problem solved.

 

Wendi

[Lolly]

I think you should mention the way the police behaved in front of your children and that now your daughter doesn't feel safe around them. The police in our area do not like hearing that children fear them. It sounds like you were dealing with two hot heads. How are they going to behave in a serious situation where they truly need to keep their cool? And I honestly doubt the cop will have his eye on his 16-year-old son so closely that he won't allow him to hang out at a bookstore without Daddy. Children do have to grow up.

 

Having said that, this is my world to a T. My youngest is almost 13, but he's not allowed to go anywhere without me because the wishy-washy law in Illinois states that the legal age to leave a child home is 14. I have two neighbors who are quick to call the police if they suspect anything. Once my husband and I were walking at the park with our son who was about 30 feet in front of us within our view. One of the neighbors and his wife were there walking their dogs and angrily confronted us as to the whereabouts of our son (not in a nice way). So we pointed out that he was right in front of us. What idiots. They're both doctors, so I'm sure whatever they say would be held in high esteem.

 

Ugh. Anyway, I'm sorry you and your children had to go through this. Situations like these make me wonder if common sense exists anymore.

 

I actually did not believe this. I had to look it up for myself. I am floored! :svengo: REALLY? 14 to be left alone? THis is insane.:glare:

[PiCO]

Regardless of what their policy on "unattended children" is, it doesn't seem that this was handled appropriately. If they do in fact have a policy, the lady in the children's section should have followed you as you were leaving and informed you of that - not let you go and then call the police.

 

And if she didn't catch you before she left, she should have asked your dd if she could call you and tell you to come back. (Or at least asked your children if they have a way to contact you.)

 

I have left my younger dd alone in book stores before. Sometimes I notice an adult giving her a dirty look, but she is always well-behaved. If the adults seem like jerks, I hang out and watch the adults sureptitiously.

[Lolly]

The store manager is Jessica Madaglia.

 

Have you been able to contact her? She was all cheery on the phone and wanted to know how she could help me. I said I just needed her name, but was SO tempted to tell her that a large group of potential customers have been discussing the terribly inappropriate actions of one of her employees, how it affected a family, and how it should be handled!

 

:lol::lol::lol:If it can be done, the hive can do it!

[Guest Dulcimeramy]

I don't think it is appropriate to dig up and share this woman's name on a public board.

 

We only have one side of this story.

 

This is turning into a witch hunt, and I only use that expression because of the name-calling that is going on here.

 

This woman has been called a witch, an idiot, cranky, someone who should never be allowed children, and more. Now her name and contact information are on the board, and the invective is escalating.

[MelanieM]

Wow. I can only imagine how shaken you must have all been after this incident! It would have really thrown me as well. I hope you're feeling better about it all now that a little time has passed.

 

I've been reading through all the comments here, and I think there are some assumptions being made that could really be changing the perception of events. Based on what was written about the incident, it is only assumed that the woman from the children's department is the one that placed the call, and it is assumed that she knew the ages of the children. Is it possible that she brought this incident to her manager and the manager is the one that made the call? Is it possible that she really didn't know what to do about it, and that's why she didn't step in to stop you from leaving in the first place? Is it possible she really did think the kids were younger? (I am horrible at guessing kids' ages.) While she does sound like a grumpy store employee, I do think it is worth considering that she was only doing her job based on some assumptions of her own.

 

Also, I wonder if the police talked to you so long because you were so nice to them! You seem like a polite woman, and I'm sure they don't face that type of response on most of their calls. So when they found someone willing to listen, it sort of makes sense that they vented a little about the woes of people who leave their children when they shouldn't do such things. It probably had nothing to do with you at all, and was more of a "this is as close as we can get, so let's tell her..." reaction to some of the truly horrible things they see every day. I'm not saying that gives anyone the right to make a parent or child so terribly uncomfortable, but rather that I can find some sympathy for those officers in thinking about it that way.

 

Perhaps your daughter would feel better if she could have another talk with the police some time soon so she could replace this negative experience with a more positive one. In fact, a field trip to the local police office might be a wonderful homeschool activity for you all right now. And maybe you can call the station and request something like this and explain to them what happened... not as a way to get anyone into trouble, but as an explanation for why it would be so important for your family right now and return your peace of mind.

[melissel]

I don't think it is appropriate to dig up and share this woman's name on a public board.

 

We only have one side of this story.

 

This is turning into a witch hunt, and I only use that expression because of the name-calling that is going on here.

 

This woman has been called a witch, an idiot, cranky, someone who should never be allowed children, and more. Now her name and contact information are on the board, and the invective is escalating.

 

The name is the store manager's, not the employee's, and it was posted because Barb couldn't find the information on her own and was told they didn't give it out.

[Sahamamama]

Sadly, now the outcome will probably be that no one is ever allowed to play basketball unsupervised at the church.

 

I'm living in the same town in which I grew up, and so much has changed.

 

When we were kids, a whole group of us would get dropped off at the deaf school for a full day of sledding. The school had a fantastic slope, very wide, not too steep, but wonderful for sledding. Our parents would leave 4-6 of us girls there with our sleds, a thermos of hot cocoa, and instructions to "stick together." We had a blast. Then, as we approached our teen years, some Baby Boomer's kid got hurt (minor injury) on the slopes, and that was the end of that. No more sledding at Katzenbach.

 

When we were kids, a whole group of us would go with our parents to the local college for a full day of ice skating. The college had a small lake, which in those days would firmly freeze over, wonderful for skating. Our parents would accompany 4-6 of us girls there with our skates, a thermos of hot cocoa (I'm sensing a theme), and instructions to "stay away from the thin ice." We had a blast. Then, as we approached our teen years, some Baby Boomer's kid got hurt (minor injury) on the ice, and that was the end of that. No more skating at Trenton State College.

When we were kids, a pair or a group of us would go on our bikes to the local library for a full day of reading. The library had a large bathtub, the kind with legs, full of plump pillows, wonderful for reading. Our parents would send us out the door with our library cards, money for fines :D, and instructions to "leave for home before it gets dark." We had a blast. Then, as we approached our teen years, some Baby Boomer's kid fell out of the tub (no injury), and that was the end of that. No more unsupervised children permitted at the library.

 

It wasn't child predators who destroyed the freedoms and adventures of childhood, so much as litigious Baby Boomer parents, IMO. That generation thought they could protect their children from everything, but in the end, they only took away from their children -- and the generations to follow -- the freedoms and adventures that childhood needs.

[MariannNOVA]

I have not read the other responses but I would be as livid as you if this happened to me.

 

Did this employee call the police of her own accord? THAT would be my jumping off point as far as advocating for myself and my children. IF this employee took it upon herself to represent B&N with her phone call to the police, well, I'd say she has some explaining to do.

 

I would go back into the store, and communicate with the store manager. You did not leave a 5 and 7 year old - you left children who were quite older and clearly able to behave themselves appropriately. The employee should be made to explain her reasons for calling the police and if she called without clearing it with a manager first, then that should be explained as well.

 

I'm sorry this happened to you and to your children - and, yes, good, bad, whatever, Jeff Bezos and Amazon have stolen my heart!

[MBM]

I actually did not believe this. I had to look it up for myself. I am floored! :svengo: REALLY? 14 to be left alone? THis is insane.:glare:

 

Yes, it's true, but it's written with enough leeway to either enforce it or not. We can easily hire excellent attorneys, but I wouldn't want my child to go through anything traumatic because someone has an axe to grind.

 

I called our police and asked them at what age may a child be left alone. They told me they didn't know. Really? Then I told them that many children come home to an empty home after school, and they told me that was okay. :confused:

[elegantlion]

The name is the store manager's, not the employee's, and it was posted because Barb couldn't find the information on her own and was told they didn't give it out.

 

 

:iagree: A store manager is in place partially to deal with customer issues, I'd say this qualifies. No one is posting personal information about this individual, this falls under her job description, I'm quite sure. A management presence should have been there with the police to insure it was handled due to company protocol. Have worked in retail for years, it shocks me that they were not nearby when the police were called to their store.

[Sahamamama]

I don't think it is appropriate to dig up and share this woman's name on a public board.

 

We only have one side of this story.

 

This is turning into a witch hunt, and I only use that expression because of the name-calling that is going on here.

 

This woman has been called a witch, an idiot, cranky, someone who should never be allowed children, and more. Now her name and contact information are on the board, and the invective is escalating.

 

No, you don't have your facts straight. The name that was posted is the name of the store manager, not the employee who made the call. This is not a witch hunt, it's a passionate and proactive response to a very real threat of a family's entire life being turned upside-down because someone made an unwarranted call to the police, who also blew the whole thing out of proportion.

[Lolly]

I don't think it is appropriate to dig up and share this woman's name on a public board.

 

We only have one side of this story.

 

This is turning into a witch hunt, and I only use that expression because of the name-calling that is going on here.

 

This woman has been called a witch, an idiot, cranky, someone who should never be allowed children, and more. Now her name and contact information are on the board, and the invective is escalating.

 

Actually, the manager of the store is not who the saleswoman is thought to be. It was just a challenge as to who to find to send a complaint about the employee to.

[angela in ohio]

It wasn't child predators who destroyed the freedoms and adventures of childhood, so much as litigious Baby Boomer parents, IMO. That generation thought they could protect their children from everything, but in the end, they only took away from their children -- and the generations to follow -- the freedoms and adventures that childhood needs.

 

I agee. I think there are several culprits. Like you said, the lawyer-happy parents who will sue over anything. The behavior of average children has declined to the point where they can't be trusted. Also, the meida has so distorted the facts of actual dangers to children to the point where parents don't know the facts about what actually injures or kills most kids.

 

We've come a long way from when I was able to walk to the corner store for milk as a 10 yo, with the bakery lady handing me a free cookie. But I wouldn't trust the average 10 yo to behave in that same store WITH parents, let alone without parents anymore. And the average parent would now sue because bakery lady didn't check to see if I had allergies first and is giving me unhealthy food.

[Tiff in TX]

Please no discussion over whether you, personally, would be comfortable with my decision. This wasn't a case of neglect or poor judgement, but a rational, considered weighing of the pros and cons, risks and benefits and a decision reached based on parenting philosophy and the maturity of the children involved. Child services pose a greater threat to the average parent than child predators do.

 

Barb

 

This last paragraph struck me as odd. I am guessing you posted this story so that others could discuss it and weigh in about how the police and store employee acted, but you don't want to know what others thought of your actions?

 

Seems to me like people are judging and making conclusions about one side of story and are asked not to discuss the decision of the person who is giving the story. The police officers and the store clerk are not on this forum to defend themselves and explain, while you are here to defend your actions, but you don't care to hear what anyone else has to say about your decision. It just doesn't make sense to me.

[Sahamamama]

We've come a long way from when I was able to walk to the corner store for milk as a 10 yo, with the bakery lady handing me a free cookie. But I wouldn't trust the average 10 yo to behave in that same store WITH parents, let alone without parents anymore. And the average parent would now sue because bakery lady didn't check to see if I had allergies first and is giving me unhealthy food.

 

We did this, too, LOL! My sister and I had those neon-sparkly banana seat bikes, remember those? We had tassles on our handle-bars, a honking horn, "straws" on the spokes (made a cool sound, right?), and a plastic "wicker" basket, complete with a plastic flower. :lol:

 

We were 7 and 9. We were 9 and 11. We were 11 and 13. We rode those bikes everywhere. To the library to get a new read. To the "Five and Ten" to get a new goldfish (poor Goldie, in his twist-tied baggie, didn't always make it home -- so we'd make another trip). To the woods to pick blackberries, which we independently made into cobbler. To the junior high to pick Concord grapes, which we independently made into fruit roll ups. To the creek to dig out clay, which we independently made into "pots" that held our dried flower arrangements -- in our fort, in the woods near our neighborhood. To the woods, to play in said fort, to swing from vines into the creek, to fish for sunnies (without a license), to collect wild onions to fry up with the sunnies.

 

 

MOTHER'S RULES FOR FISH:

 

You catch them, you clean them.

Dad will cook them, we'll all eat them.

 

 

 

It's a different world we're living in, I think.

[Lolly]

Yes, it's true, but it's written with enough leeway to either enforce it or not. We can easily hire excellent attorneys, but I wouldn't want my child to go through anything traumatic because someone has an axe to grind.

 

I called our police and asked them at what age may a child be left alone. They told me they didn't know. Really? Then I told them that many children come home to an empty home after school, and they told me that was okay. :confused:

 

You know what is funny, there are only THREE states with actual legal ages to be left alone. They are Maryland-8, Oregon-10, and Illinois-14. 14! I'm still having trouble with that.:tongue_smilie:

[HeidiKC]

I don't think it is appropriate to dig up and share this woman's name on a public board.

 

We only have one side of this story.

 

This is turning into a witch hunt, and I only use that expression because of the name-calling that is going on here.

 

This woman has been called a witch, an idiot, cranky, someone who should never be allowed children, and more. Now her name and contact information are on the board, and the invective is escalating.

 

As several others have mentioned, I posted the store manager's name who is meant to deal with customer concerns. I don't know if you noticed my next post where I suggested that we e-mail her after this is hopefully resolved in the appropriate manner, letting her know our appreciation since managers rarely get positive feedback compared to the negative.

 

I certainly wouldn't have listed the store employee's name and don't think it would be appropriate for any of us to contact her directly. Sorry for the misunderstanding!

[melissel]

This last paragraph struck me as odd. I am guessing you posted this story so that others could discuss it and weigh in about how the police and store employee acted, but you don't want to know what others thought of your actions?

 

Seems to me like people are judging and making conclusions about one side of story and are asked not to discuss the decision of the person who is giving the story. The police officers and the store clerk are not on this forum to defend themselves and explain, while you are here to defend your actions, but you don't care to hear what anyone else has to say about your decision. It just doesn't make sense to me.

 

Parenting styles can differ and yet still be valid. The law does not vary. In this case Barb broke no law, so to have the police called on her by an employee who heard her plans and watched her leave the store without saying anything is simply ridiculous. We can be angry about poor treatment of someone without necessarily agreeing with the actions. Personally, I wouldn't leave my 11-year-old in a store unattended, because that's outside my comfort zone, NOT outside the law. That doesn't make what happened to Barb any less horrifying.