Muslim/Christian Unrest in Malaysia: PLEASE PRAY

[Heather in Neverland]

I am in dire need of a little perspective on this.

 

As many of you know, Malaysia is officially a Muslim country. Normally, it is pretty peaceful here. But there have been some events lately thathave me both confused and worried.

 

There have been some things going on in court in regards to the use of the word "Allah". Apparently, the Muslims here think they should be the only ones allowed to use that word. Period. A Christian church in Kuala Lumpur printed the word "Allah" in one of their newsletters...not in a derogatory manner but as what it means..."God" ...because the newsletter had been translated into bahasa which is the Malaysian language.

 

The Muslim community got VERY upset that a christian church typed the word Allah in a christian publication and sued them to make them never do it again. The Muslims lost in court two days ago. Things are now starting to get ugly.

 

The next day, three Christian churches in KL were fire bombed. And the local newspapers are filled with the outcry of Muslims over the court decision. They are demanding the government do something about it and making semi-veiled threats.

 

I have two issues: one is that I just don't get it. I don't understand how anyone can claim ownership over a word. I am a christian but I don't think non-christians should be banned from saying the word "Jesus"...although with the way some people use it, it upsets me.

 

Second issue: how worried should I be about my family's safety right now? All of this is going on in KL which is 4 hours from me on the mainland. Everthing here on the island is just like usual...not even a blip on the radar screen. I am not used to this kind of thing so I tend to write it off as not a big deal. My friend asked me if I was still going to church on Sunday. ??? Of course, I am going to church.

 

Am I being too cavalier about this? I am not going to live my life in fear but I also want to be smart. Here are some quotes from the local newspaper:

 

Prime Minister Najib Abdul Razak has been urged to make a courageous

stand to ensure that only Muslims in this country are entitled to use

the term Allah.

 

In making this call, Malaysian Indian Muslim Congress (Kimma)

president Mohd Fazil William said the premier must act as Muslims feel

threatened.

 

"Najib should be bold to take immediate action to declare Allah is

for Muslims only. If there is a need to amend the Federal Constitution

to do this or any other existing laws then it should be done. If there is a loophole in the existing laws then patch it up," he stressed.

 

After the Friday prayers, hundreds gathered to vent their anger over

the recent court ruling which allowed a Catholic weekly Herald to use

the term Allah in its Bahasa Malaysia edition.

 

Fazil also said Kimma members who "numbered about one million" were

standing together with other Muslims to protest the court decision.

 

Muslims must stand united

 

Meanwhile, Selangor Pertubuhan Pribumi Perkasa Malaysia (Perkasa) leader Arman Azha Abu Hanifah made an impassioned plea for Muslim unity,

particularly among Malays.

 

"Because we are not united, they are challenging the dignity of Islam.

So, lets stand as one and tackle this problem."

 

Also expressing dissatisfaction with the court ruling was Abdul Rashid

Mohd Fadzil, leader of Islamic proselytization group Pekida.

 

According to him, the fundamental problem was Herald's insistence on

using the term Allah. When told that Christians in Middle-Eastern and other countries have long used the word Allah to describe God, Abdul Rashid replied: "We are talking about Malaysia".

 

Tun Faisal Ismail Aziz, chairperson of the Umno Youth media unit, was

also present at the protest in his personal capacity. He too was of the view that the use of Allah is exclusively for Muslims who had been using it for years.

 

"The church must respect this right and should not use Allah out of

respect to Muslims," he said.

 

Ikatan Rakyat Insan Muslim (IRIM) Malaysia president Amir Hamzah

Allipitchay also urged the government to make a stand.

 

"If the issue is prolonged, it would lead to unrest in the country.

The country's leadership must take immediate steps to resolve it," he

said.

 

"Today, we will tell them that we have given them rights and religious

freedom. But know this, do not play with Islam," a spokesperson, who

did not name himself, told the crowd.

 

Any thoughts?

[nono]

My 2 cents -- you are there now. You know best. The May 13 incident...is this a country that will never let that happen again, or a country that will likely follow its past history? And did things happen in your geography that were related to the May 13 incident?

 

I ask these questions to simply help you sort out your thoughts and feelings. Hang in there!

[specialmama]

A sickening, very serious downward spiral for all of mankind. In a few short years, Christians will be outnumbered by Muslims due to the birthrate. It is very scary what they (extremists) are willing to do. As for your situation, Heather, continue living as you ought. These extremists who will use violence to achieve their ends are everywhere. You are no safer in the U.S.

 

As for other thoughts, isn't it ironic that the paper printed the word and hasn't been bombed?

Edited January 9, 2010 by specialmama

[Renee in NC]

A sickening, very serious downward spiral for all of mankind. In a few short years, Christians will be outnumbered by Muslims due to the birthrate. It is very scary what they (extremists) are willing to do. As for your situation, Heather, continue living as you ought. These extremists who will use violence to achieve their ends are everywhere. You are no safer in the U.S.

 

As for other thoughts, isn't it ironic that the paper printed the word and hasn't been bombed?

 

What does the Muslim birthrate have to do with extremists firebombing churches?

[tdeveson]

Just a thought, if you are there as part of a Christian mission, you are in a very bad situation. Lots of people don't appreciate perfect strangers from foreign countries coming to their land to proselytize and tell them their native religion is wrong. Consider our joy if Mexicans started coming over the border telling us all that we should convert to Catholicism or one of their native religions. I guarantee you that shots would fly. They feel exactly the same way you and I would if that was the case.

 

If you're not part of a Christian mission, keep a low profile and hope for the best. A predominantly Muslim country is not a healthy place for an American these days. Either case, in your situation I'd pack up my family and leave. Things will get worse before they get better, IMO and the last ten years have done nothing to endear us to Muslims.

 

Good luck, and take care.

[8circles]

Heather, I'm glad you posted.

 

I've spent a bit of time in Malaysia (KL only) so have a little understanding of the area.

 

Honestly, if I were you I'd go about my business, albeit carefully, & pray. Seriously pray. You've mentioned that you feel it was God's will that you go to Malaysia, I'd look to Him for answers/comfort now.

 

I'll be praying for you. :grouphug:

[specialmama]

What does the Muslim birthrate have to do with extremists firebombing churches?

 

 

Nothing except that events like this are likely to increase.

[KYKaren]

Hi Heather,

Throughout the 9-11 period and following (US retaliation, Second Gulf War, etc) we lived in a Muslim country. There were definitely tense days of anti-American activites and high passions against Christians (even national Christians) because of assumed/perceived US sensitivities. At other various occasions, there was violence directed against minority groups by the majority. (Disclaimer--having also lived in Christian majority and Hindu majority areas, I see a general trend by the majority/power group to oppress ethnic and religious minorities; I'm not implying this is a Muslim-specific behavior.)

 

Anyway, things grow tense; passions flare. And the very best thing you as an outsider can do is to cultivate friendships with nationals. Even in the midst of the tensest times polictically, when my husband was out of the country for medical proceedures and I lived in a "hot" area with my five young children, I counted on my neighbors. They have an inside track on what is safe, what areas or gatherings to avoid. In our case, our ball wall neighbors, whose children attended madrasa--a conservative family--, they had a plan to shelter us in their home to keep us safe during outbreaks of violence.

 

More generally, I would say that it seems quite far from you at this point. I think outlying areas are often safe than capital cities during times of unrest.

 

Be at peace,

KYKaren (an eternal lurker)

[SusanAR]

Heather,

We lived in Indonesia and the Philippines. We always followed the suggestions of the Embassy (my dh was a warden). There were several Sundays when we were told to stay home. Can you contact your warden?

[Starr]

I've been reading about this in the news. And praying for you. I'm glad you feel safe in your area. I would continue to go about as usual I think. If you're nervous take a Sunday off. Has the State Department made any indications that you should close up shop? Or is this looked on as rioting that will be stopping soon? Looks like you've got a new subject to add to your self education. You've got a lot of history to keep you busy. :D Keep us posted. :grouphug: :grouphug:

[Amber in AUS]

I would probably heighten my personal security. Be more mindful of others. Probably would not go to church. I would keep any eye on any travel alert issued by the US govt or any other govt for that matter, Aust, UK etc. If someone is raising their alert level for travel to and from Malaysia then it would concern me. Keep in close contact with your consulate and if things start to escalate they can keep you informed and organise evacuations etc.

[JFSinIL]

Just a thought, if you are there as part of a Christian mission, you are in a very bad situation. Lots of people don't appreciate perfect strangers from foreign countries coming to their land to proselytize and tell them their native religion is wrong. Consider our joy if Mexicans started coming over the border telling us all that we should convert to Catholicism or one of their native religions. I guarantee you that shots would fly. They feel exactly the same way you and I would if that was the case.

 

 

H'mmm, some of us here are already Catholics. And natives.

;)

[dirty ethel rackham]

H'mmm, some of us here are already Catholics. And natives.

;)

 

My thoughts exactly. (Only I couldn't think of a tactful way to say it:).)

[AngelBee]

Praying for you and your family :grouphug:

[Chris in VA]

Heather, I'll be in prayer for you.

Our assistant's husband works for an organization that promotes freedom of religion (all religions) around the world. I'll ask his advice tomorrow. Of course, that's just for my own info--you go ahead and take the advice of those well-informed around you.

[teamturner]

H'mmm, some of us here are already Catholics. And natives.

;)

 

 

Have any shots been fired??

[Renee in NC]

Have any shots been fired??

 

:lol::lol::lol:

[kalanamak]

Out of curiosity, what is the religious/ethnic makeup of the army?

[helena]

Anyway, things grow tense; passions flare. And the very best thing you as an outsider can do is to cultivate friendships with nationals. Even in the midst of the tensest times polictically, when my husband was out of the country for medical proceedures and I lived in a "hot" area with my five young children, I counted on my neighbors. They have an inside track on what is safe, what areas or gatherings to avoid. In our case, our ball wall neighbors, whose children attended madrasa--a conservative family--, they had a plan to shelter us in their home to keep us safe during outbreaks of violence.

 

More generally, I would say that it seems quite far from you at this point. I think outlying areas are often safe than capital cities during times of unrest.

 

Be at peace,

KYKaren (an eternal lurker)

 

:iagree:

It never hurts to have a plan, and some cash.

[astrid]

H'mmm, some of us here are already Catholics. And natives.

;)

 

....and many of us are not. ;)

 

astrid

[helena]

A sickening, very serious downward spiral for all of mankind.

 

Are you saying Muslims aren't part of mankind? Or are they a different kind of human? This sounds very similar to comments made about black people in America by white supremacists, and Nazis' in Europe against the Jews.

 

In a few short years, Christians will be outnumbered by Muslims due to the birthrate.

That sounds like when people would say "soon the blacks will out number the whites"

or Mexican, or whatever. Scary stuff.

 

Well there's always eugenics....

[Heather in Neverland]

1. PLEASE do NOT let this devolve into an us vs. them argument. This is not about all muslims vs. all christians. This is about some extremists causing trouble for everyone.

 

2. I am on the warning email loop for the U.S. Embassy here. I saw the information on the news first then the same day I got a warning from the US Embassy to basically stay away from KL and some other cities where there are protests and bombings. Luckily, we live a few hours from there. We WERE going to go to the Taiping Zoo but dh said no because it was too close to the action.

 

3. We just went to lunch at a local restaurant, completely halal, run by muslims. The staff was just as friendly to us as they've ever been, everything seemed exactly the same. But today's paper was FILLED with it...everything from those saying the Muslims will get their revenge to the prime minister and King denouncing the bombings. But it was still HUGE headlines. So I wonder...is Penang Island in a parallel universe from the rest of Malaysia and things on the mainland have no effect here? Or is this the calm before the storm?

 

4. We are not here as Christian Missionaries (Malaysia actually does not issue missionary visas...any missionaries that are here are either under a visitor's pass or some kind of work visa "front"). We are here on a bonafide work visa, complete with paying Malaysian taxes and everything. But we DO work at the only Christian school on the island.

 

5. Our church services take place in the ballroom of a hotel. I don't know if that makes us safer since they might not want to attack their own people??

 

6. As far as the army is concerned: "Rejimen Askar Melayu DiRaja (Royal Malay Regiment) is the most senior regiment of the Malaysian Army. Its ranks are recruited from amongst the Malay population." which means yes, they are muslim.

 

7. One thing that I read today that worried me was the government saying they would impose a type of martial law (they had another term for it but I can't remember) if things get any more dangerous.

 

8. There is also a lot of "fear-mongering" happening now...people are posting hate messages on message boards about Christians. Others warning Christians to get rid of any religious symbols on their cars as cars are being vandalized.

 

I am learning more and more as I live here. Malaysia has its regular constitution that governs the counry but then it also has sharia law to govern muslims specifically. Sometimes the two collide (like now) and trouble starts since the Malay Muslims are "bumiputra" which means they are the favored race with special privileges and what-not and they get really upset if any of the minorities step on their toes.

 

As I sit here typing, I feel safe but I hope that is a real feeling and not naivete on my part. I know we are here because God wants us here and He will protect us...or not...but either way His will be done. I just pray that the matter would subside quickly (although it doesn't look that way).

[Stacy in NJ]

I am learning more and more as I live here. Malaysia has its regular constitution that governs the counry but then it also has sharia law to govern muslims specifically. Sometimes the two collide (like now) and trouble starts since the Malay Muslims are "bumiputra" which means they are the favored race with special privileges and what-not and they get really upset if any of the minorities step on their toes.

 

As I sit here typing, I feel safe but I hope that is a real feeling and not naivete on my part. I know we are here because God wants us here and He will protect us...or not...but either way His will be done. I just pray that the matter would subside quickly (although it doesn't look that way).

 

How really awful. :confused:

 

Stay safe and be careful.

[Catherine]

It might go a long way toward mending fences, and if it doesn't, the unreasonable leanings of the other side are more apparent.

[Osmosis Mom]

I have unfortunately not been following the news, but I will now since you are in the area, Heather.

 

Malaysia used to be like a utopian country for me; great Muslim people and English-speaking. That is until I got nes of how Muslim ladies seeking divorce were treated...and that was supposed to be according to Shariah (which it was not because in Shariah a woman can require a divorce on so man basis incl. lack of sexual satisfaction that she cannot be denied one).

 

So, just to say, that what is called Shariah might be slightly perverted. In Shariah non-Muslims deists are guaranteed very specific rights incl. safety. About the use of the word Allah, then someone somewhere muct have misunderstood something or things have been misrepresented because in Arab countried Christians actually use this word for God. However, as Muslims do not associate God with having any off spring or being one etc. and since that is the biggest blasphemy we have, then perhaps some misunderstanding arose in that regards. I'm just saying that if the sentence said Praise be to A. son of Mary or something to that regard, then yes, it would arise anger (not talking violence, but anger!!!!!). That's all I can think of in that regard. Arab Christians say inshallah (God Willing), alhamdulilah (Thanks to God) and stuff like that and they even use our Arabic name Abduallah (slave of God) for their sons.

[asta]

(honestly not trying to start a diversion)

 

In Islam, there is no separation of Church and State. None. The two are completely interwoven.

 

Malaysia, as Heather has graciously explained to all of us many times, is a very special place. It has managed to balance many different faiths within its borders, relatively peacefully, for quite some time.

 

However. Malaysia's predominate religion is Islam (appx 60%). Now go back to my first sentence.

 

The government of Malaysia is caught between a rock and a hard place. They cannot override Shari'a law, by their own constitution, as this is a matter that deals with Islam, but they cannot ignore the pleas of the Christian churches, as their constitution also guarantees religious freedoms.

 

I would make sure I had cash on hand and a means of leaving the country, if it were me.

 

 

a

[Laura Corin]

since the Malay Muslims are "bumiputra" which means they are the favored race with special privileges

 

How really awful. :confused:

 

 

As far as I remember, the minorities (particularly people of Indian descent) were imported by the British authorities as workers. It's a different thing from an independent country inviting/allowing immigration.

 

ETA: I'm not justifying the Malaysian system, just explaining its origin.

 

Laura

[Heather in Neverland]

It might go a long way toward mending fences, and if it doesn't, the unreasonable leanings of the other side are more apparent.

 

I don't know that they haven't and I don't know enough to say that they did anything wrong that they "should" apologize. I am not sure of the entire back story. I do know that "Allah" was not used in a derogatory manner (from what I read it was simply used as a translation for the word "God" for those who do not speak english). I also know that there was a lawsuit involved and the courts ruled in favor of the christian church's right to use the word in translation and NOT in favor of the muslims' claim that they own the word...hence the backlash.

 

I do know that the Federation of Christian Churches in Malaysia issued a formal statement saying they forgive the bombers and do not hold ill will towards them which I thought was pretty gracious since the bombers destroyed their church. But some Mulsim owners of a hotel/convention center nearby offered the use of their facitlites for services for the Christian church until they rebuild which I also thought was great.

Edited January 9, 2010 by Heather in NC

[nd293]

Heather,

 

Are there links between your school and the local Muslim community? A way of getting accurate information on local sentiments on the issues? We were in a small Muslim country, which might have made things different, but the school was in constant contact with the Ministry of Education on any issues affecting the school, from outbreaks of illness to inclement weather (if you live in a desert, rain can close schools!) or political concerns. Does your school have those sorts of link to government? Or links to a local Muslim school?

 

I am sure that your senses will be heightened at this time - if anything, you are likely to over-read danger, so if you are feeling safe, I imagine things are not too tense. Sadly, though, it only takes one extremist (of any flavour, religious or secular) to make things go tragically wrong for others.

 

I agree with other posters who emphasise personal links and goodwill between you/your school/family and the local community at this time, and indeed all times.

 

Take care and we are thinking of you!

[nd293]

A predominantly Muslim country is not a healthy place for an American these days. Either case, in your situation I'd pack up my family and leave.

 

Home is where the heart is :). We would not have packed up and left our home under in the Middle East under similar circumstances. We would have been cautious. We could have kept abreast of developments. We would have considered embassy advise (while recognising that they are going to tend to excessive caution). But we chose to consider where we lived our home. We wouldn't leave home at the first sign of trouble.

[Heather in Neverland]

Heather,

 

Are there links between your school and the local Muslim community? A way of getting accurate information on local sentiments on the issues? We were in a small Muslim country, which might have made things different, but the school was in constant contact with the Ministry of Education on any issues affecting the school, from outbreaks of illness to inclement weather (if you live in a desert, rain can close schools!) or political concerns. Does your school have those sorts of link to government? Or links to a local Muslim school?

 

I am sure that your senses will be heightened at this time - if anything, you are likely to over-read danger, so if you are feeling safe, I imagine things are not too tense. Sadly, though, it only takes one extremist (of any flavour, religious or secular) to make things go tragically wrong for others.

 

I agree with other posters who emphasise personal links and goodwill between you/your school/family and the local community at this time, and indeed all times.

 

Take care and we are thinking of you!

 

Yes, we have strong ties to the Ministry of Education and I know if there is anything we should be worried about they will tell us. The other problem is that we are still on christmas holiday right now so there isn't as much communication as usual with the school since it is closed. So far all is quite on the Penang front.... but we have money and passports and a car and the airport is 30 minutes away...just in case!

 

My big worry is that my MOM is going to find out about all of this! :tongue_smilie:

[keptwoman]

since the Malay Muslims are "bumiputra" which means they are the favored race with special privileges

 

 

 

As far as I remember, the minorities (particularly people of Indian descent) were imported by the British authorities as workers. It's a different thing from an independent country inviting/allowing immigration.\

Fiji has a similar thing with Fijians having more rights than the Fijian Indians, particularly as regards land ownership.

[Ummto4]

Just be vigilant.

 

I used to live in Indonesia, and things like that happens often. Usually it's in context of race (Chinese vs native). But there has been some unrest based on religious dispute. Some of the unrest do become big.

 

I notice, in areas where the proportion of muslim vs christian is almost 50-50 (Malaysia has this ratio too, right ?), the unrest has a tendency on becoming a small-scale war. Scary. But (a big but here), the government of Indonesia did not take sides because in Indonesia, ethnicity has no relation with religious views. In MAlaysia, bbumiputra = muslim, and government is run by bumiputra, so there is a danger that govt will take sides, KWIM ?

 

You will know when it gets to war proportion. That's when both sides start attacking each other. But if it's just demonstration after demonstration with some vandalism - then I wouldn't worry for now, especially your place is pretty far from KL. Just stay at home, or at worst, go to your neighbor's house.

[MariannNOVA]

My big worry is that my MOM is going to find out about all of this! :tongue_smilie:

 

Prayers and hugs! :grouphug:

 

and........we just don't ever get over that, do we?! :001_smile:

[Stacy in NJ]

As far as I remember, the minorities (particularly people of Indian descent) were imported by the British authorities as workers. It's a different thing from an independent country inviting/allowing immigration.

 

ETA: I'm not justifying the Malaysian system, just explaining its origin.

 

Laura

 

Yes, as an American, I'm intimately familiar with the history of Britian, and others Europeans - and eventually Americans, importing non-natives as "workers", and the long term social tension this causes.

 

In the USA we used to have "separate but equal". I'm not excusing it, just explaining it. Of course we fought a bloody civil war, engaged in a civil rights movement, and spent the last 150 years attempting redemption. We did all of these things so that we could reconcile our social structure with our moral value system, - You know, our Western Judeo/Christian moral value system.

 

My "how awful" comment related to the fact that it's the 21st century and how awful it is that this reality still exists in Maylasia and other countries. But even more awful is colonialism as an excuse for continued tolerance of it.

Edited January 9, 2010 by Stacy in NJ
sp

[Dayle in Guatemala]

I would not worry until you see a reason to worry in your area.

 

Several months ago, with the ousting of Pres. Zalaya in Honduras, there was political unrest happening here in Guatemala in the City abou 45 minutes away. There were some pretty big deomonstrations against the government here and some got pretty ugly.

 

We were a little concerned about what was going on and whether it would directly effect us. We decided to get our things together to leave quickly if we had to (passports, extra money in dollars, a phone and phone card, some extra documents we thought we might need). We put them into a backpack and put it somewhere where we could easily get it if we needed to.

 

All of this was with the thought that we could leave quickly if we had to. We didn't--God is good--and it made us think about what we would do if we had to leave quickly. We made sure we were registered with our embassy here and that we had someone back home to help us with plane tickets and whatever we needed.

 

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best. One thing we've realized, we can't live in fear, but, we can walk in wisdom. Don't take unnecessary chances, but, don't stop doing what you normally do, just have a heightened sense of awareness.

 

:grouphug:

[pqr]

the last ten years have done nothing to endear us to Muslims.

.

 

Just what is that supposed to mean?

[AFwife Claire]

Are you saying Muslims aren't part of mankind? Or are they a different kind of human? This sounds very similar to comments made about black people in America by white supremacists, and Nazis' in Europe against the Jews.

 

 

That sounds like when people would say "soon the blacks will out number the whites"

or Mexican, or whatever. Scary stuff.

 

Well there's always eugenics....

 

 

Except that in this case, the radical Muslims have made no secret about thier wish to have the world be under Sharia law. Even if many mainstream Muslims do not wish for that, they are not making a loud enough noise to overpower the hatred that is coming from the madrassa schools and other places, like the one in Yemen where the Christmas Day bomber was from.

 

I have no problem, for example, with the fact that soon Hispanics will be a majority in this country. They are not trying to change my way of life and do not consider me an infidel. Neither were blacks and Jews. Many Muslims do, and those who do seem to be the ones in power and speaking the loudest in the Muslim world.

[MariannNOVA]

I would not worry until you see a reason to worry in your area.

 

Several months ago, with the ousting of Pres. Zalaya in Honduras, there was political unrest happening here in Guatemala in the City abou 45 minutes away. There were some pretty big deomonstrations against the government here and some got pretty ugly.

 

We were a little concerned about what was going on and whether it would directly effect us. We decided to get our things together to leave quickly if we had to (passports, extra money in dollars, a phone and phone card, some extra documents we thought we might need). We put them into a backpack and put it somewhere where we could easily get it if we needed to.

 

All of this was with the thought that we could leave quickly if we had to. We didn't--God is good--and it made us think about what we would do if we had to leave quickly. We made sure we were registered with our embassy here and that we had someone back home to help us with plane tickets and whatever we needed.

 

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best. One thing we've realized, we can't live in fear, but, we can walk in wisdom. Don't take unnecessary chances, but, don't stop doing what you normally do, just have a heightened sense of awareness.

 

:grouphug:

 

:iagree: And Matthew 10:16 comes to mind: "Therefore be wise as serpents and harmless as doves." (Matthew 10:16)....wise would include having a 'go bag' and a plan - which our family has and we are in the States...and the 'bag' and plan cover many contingencies: weather, loss of electricity, etc.

Mariann

 

 

[specialmama]

Are you saying Muslims aren't part of mankind? Or are they a different kind of human? This sounds very similar to comments made about black people in America by white supremacists, and Nazis' in Europe against the Jews.

 

 

That sounds like when people would say "soon the blacks will out number the whites"

or Mexican, or whatever. Scary stuff.

 

Well there's always eugenics....

 

noooooo I'm saying it's a sickening thing if one culture/people/person is going to be allowed to own a word. Muslims are part of mankind so stop twisting things. I'm sorry if I wasn't very clear, I will learn to not post when I'm in extreme pain. It was clear in my head though :lol:

[Faithr]

I understood what you said even if you were in extreme pain! You said 'all of mankind' Evil is bad for everyone, those who suffer under it and those who impose it.

[pqr]

It looks like a 4th church was attacked but fortunately very limited damage and no one hurt.

[teamturner]

I understood what you said even if you were in extreme pain! You said 'all of mankind' Evil is bad for everyone, those who suffer under it and those who impose it.

 

I don't really understand what you're saying here but I haven't read every post in this thread. Some of us do feel it would be bad for all mankind if one religious group where to outnumber the rest of us in the world and impose their religion on the rest of us. Freedom of religion is not practiced in countries where the Muslim faith and the government are joined together. I'd rather not be considered an infidel by a group that outnumbers the rest of us. If they outnumber us in the future but don't impose their beliefs or religion on the rest of us, then I don't have a problem with that at all.

 

In the last century, the Christian faith has been peaceful towards other religions and people. You don't hear pastors calling for the deaths of those that don't practice Christianity. Nor are any strapping bombs to themselves and their children to kill others. Yes, there are some quacks out there that have attacked abortian clinics/doctors but I believe that to be a rare exception by some misguided people.

[newbie]

God called you there, let him lead your hand. But, if you are the only Christian school, I would be uber concerned as being a target. Even consider keeping school closed til tempers subside.

 

The problem is mob mentality and if your family is as fair as you I would be very concerned.

[tdeveson]

Just what is that supposed to mean?

 

It means that for the past ten years we've had occupying forces in several Muslim countries. We hardly ever seem to occupy European or Asian countries that can actually take us. You think the Muslims haven't noticed and the radical fringe within them haven't taken advantage of it?

[tdeveson]

H'mmm, some of us here are already Catholics. And natives.

;)

 

But you still wouldn't like it if somebody came up to you and told you the religion you are currently practicing is defective and you're going to be consigned to everlasting torture by fire (by a most loving and merciful god) if you don't accept it.

[8circles]

But you still wouldn't like it if somebody came up to you and told you the religion you are currently practicing is defective and you're going to be consigned to everlasting torture by fire (by a most loving and merciful god) if you don't accept it.

 

Is that what missionaries do? Really? :confused:

[lovemyboys]

It means that for the past ten years we've had occupying forces in several Muslim countries. We hardly ever seem to occupy European or Asian countries that can actually take us. You think the Muslims haven't noticed and the radical fringe within them haven't taken advantage of it?

 

:confused: And in the '90s the US was key in helping the Bosnian Muslims to survive the ethnic cleansing and massacres occurring in that area of Europe. And in bringing their murderers to justice on the world stage.

 

But radical Muslim extremists under the leadership of the extraordinarily wealthy, intelligent and educated bin Laden, chose to target the US in a very disciplined attack that they'd been planning and training for throughout the '90s, culminating in the 9/11 attacks.

 

So, from that perspective, it doesn't seem that our good efforts on behalf of Muslims in one part of the world made a whit of difference to another group, bent on harming the US.

 

We wouldn't even be in Iraq or Afghanistan were it not for the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001. For that matter, look what the people in Iran are doing with no acknowledgment from our government. We may be the excuse rather than the cause. Some things are happening regardless or in spite of the US.

 

 

:grouphug: Heather :grouphug: Be wise, be safe. Prayers for you.

[Peek a Boo]

But you still wouldn't like it if somebody came up to you and told you the religion you are currently practicing is defective and you're going to be consigned to everlasting torture by fire (by a most loving and merciful god) if you don't accept it.

 

But I don't kill them for saying that.

If i did that I'd be a despicable murderer.

 

but i guess some people would find being proselytized to an acceptable excuse for committing murder.

 

"radical fringe" is the perfect description.

 

how many countries are there *now* that are "Christian-only"?

[Renee in NC]

But you still wouldn't like it if somebody came up to you and told you the religion you are currently practicing is defective and you're going to be consigned to everlasting torture by fire (by a most loving and merciful god) if you don't accept it.

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

Trust me, alot of Catholics have heard that more than once!!!