Redshirting getting out of hand?

[Haiku]

(I accidentally posted this in the Afterschooling forum.)

 

My mother-in-law teaches first grade in another state. She said that it is now common practice to consider any birthday after January a "late" birthday and redshirt the child for Kindergarten. She said that almost half of her first-graders will be turning eight by the end of the year!!

 

What's up with that? I understand if your kid has an August or September birthday, but if a February birthday is now considered "late," what people are essentially saying is that they want their kids to be more than a year older than some of their peers! How can a teacher effectively teach kids who come to first grade with 12-16 months' difference in maturity and skills?

 

Are people really that concerned about their kids' ability to succeed?

 

Tara

[LibraryLover]

Is is 'red shirting', or is it common sense? Most little kids are really not ready for the mess that is often public school kindergarten in the US.

 

Of course, now I know that 'red shirts' means you don't survivie the alien fight. :D No more red shirts.

[Tammyla]

Honestly, here we have an alternative K program. Lots of our kids are older when they officially start kindergarten and finish high school, and I think it helps our state test scores.

[Haiku]

Is is 'red shirting', or is it common sense? Most little kids are really not ready for the mess that is often public school kindergarten in the US.

 

 

Good point ...

 

Tara

[Jen500]

I

Of course, now I know that 'red shirts' means you don't survivie the alien fight. :D No more red shirts.

 

:lol:

 

AFAIK our school system is very rigid about birth dates and grade level.

[Daisy]

I don't really have a problem with it especially given how ridiculous the pacing is for those lower grades. They expect a ton from those little children and not nearly enough from the older grades.

 

My husband teaches first grade and finds those months often make a HUGE difference in readiness.

[LibraryLover]

Honestly, here we have an alternative K program. Lots of our kids are older when they officially start kindergarten and finish high school, and I think it helps our state test scores.

 

 

Better to send (perhaps) a more mature almost 20 yr old to college than a (perhaps) immature 17 yr old.

 

Maybe 5 yrs old made sense when we weren't expected to live for 90 years. Whoowee, an extra year at home. Call the wahmbulance. :auto::D

[Haiku]

Ok, I guess I was seeing it more form MIL's viewpoint, which is that her first graders are all over the universe in terms of readiness now that their age span is so widened.

 

I didn't even do K with my dd, and only did K with my son because he wanted to do what dd was doing, so who am I to point fingers, eh?

 

Probably the push should be to push the schooling age UP, not down, as in universal preschool and the like.

 

Tara

[OhM]

Is is 'red shirting', or is it common sense? Most little kids are really not ready for the mess that is often public school kindergarten in the US.

 

 

 

This makes sense. One mother I know (she and her husband are both ps teachers) held both of their boys back (both have spring birthdays) because she felt they weren't mature enough at the start of K.

 

However, another mother I know felt that her son wouldn't be "competetive" enough if he started K at 5. Her word - competetive. He's a very big boy who was right on track at 5, but she was concerned because he wasn't testing "ahead of grade level yet" (her words again.)

[teachermom2834]

I think it is out of hand where I live. I have a May 3 ds. The cutoff here is Sept. 15.

 

Ds is a tall, bright, outgoing 9 yo boy. He is in 4th grade (right where he belongs). He has no peers :( While the cutoff is Sept 15, no one here sends spring/ summer/ fall birthday kids to school at 5.

 

This has caused no end to debate and frustration for my family. He is a normal 9 yo boy and more than capable of 4th grade work/ behavior. However, because the next youngest kids are Jan/Feb birthdays and many kids are a full year older it is as though we skipped him a grade just by sending him when his birthday indicated.

 

I wouldn't mind him being the youngest (someone always has to be). It's just that there is no one even in that range and the next youngest kids are 3-4 months older. The majority are 8-12+ mo. older. I never would have chosen to grade skip this child but effectively that is where we are.

 

He is also an athlete. While that is not our primary concern it is an issue to always have to compete out of your age/ maturity group.

 

UGHH!!! This is a problem for us and I am so frustrated by it. Yes, I do think redshirting is out of hand.

 

I don't think it is always even a good idea. I'm sure it gives an advantage at the younger grades but I imagine there are some grown men who don't need to be turning 18 in the middle of their junior year. I think that some personalities would have trouble with that and it could backfire. Turning 18 and launching into college/ career/ etc. kind of go hand in hand in my mind. I was stir crazy when I graduated and I was 17. I can't imagine a bright, well adjusted child having to wait until a few months past 19 yo to graduate. That doesn't feel right to me.

 

Obviously there is no one size fits all but I think a mess has been created here (for us, anyway).

 

Marie

[happyhomemaker25]

for a five year old to be in kindergarten when it meant playing school. Now that they have rigorous academic guidelines for Kindergarten I think that an older 6 is probably better. I could not believe it when my middle daughter went to K a few years ago and the teacher told me she was delayed because she could not write all her letters or know the sounds of them. I'd done some work with her at home but mostly we read and played games. We did not do a lot of writing. Apparently they have to start K being on the verge of reading or already reading.

[Maeintx]

As a mom that did wait.. or rather purposely had him repeat K. It was because HE needed it. I don't know if that is a trend but even the school said that K is the new first grade. They are expected to do so much. My boy just.was.not.ready emotionally to move on so we had him repeat K. He has an end of April b-day.

 

So, he'll be 8 by the end of first grade. No worries here.

 

FWIW. We have 4 boys (older 2 were home educated during some of the middle school years and we'll like do the same with the younger 2) and he was the only one we felt the need to "redshirt". It wasn't about sports or excelling to us but about giving him time to mature and settle into public school and all it encompasses.

[TravelingChris]

I think it is a really bad idea. Maybe they don't see the 18 and 19 year olds in high school. I do. It is more likely to be boys. While they may not be as mature as the girls at the same age, there is no way these adult males should be in high school. I have two right now in my class. One is definitely bored, too old to play with the other kids and certainly smart enough to be in college right now. The older is stuck doing high school while his family is facing crisis after crisis. I can see on his face how much he would rather be working and helping the family through the enormous problems they have.

 

No one ever wants to think about what happens if their child has problems. How about this one- if they are held back and decided to drop out at 16, instead of being in 11th or tenth grade, there is a possibility of them being in 9th grade. Yikes. Also you lose your legal ability to control your child when they turn 18. That means you can't legally force them to do anything including go to the doctor or counseling, take their medication, abide by family rules, etc. You have only one option- have them leave the house or take away privileges. But just as you have no more obligation to support them, they have no obligation to obey you.

[fivetails]

"red shirt" = not sending your child to public school as soon as they're eligible?

 

[Why do they call it that??]

 

I don't think there's any need to rush littles into school ~ goodness, they've got some over at the local elem as young as THREE. Seriously. It's some kind of "early start" program or something - it's not daycare, it's part of the school system.

[cougarmom4]

This is one thing that drives me crazy. I think it has gotten out of hand--because many people hold their kids back so they will be better at sports. Seriously...that's the kind that bother me. I have had several friends who do this with sports being their only consideration. And I can see how difficult it would be to have such a span of ages within a class...especially in our ps system where they are placed together only by grade level.

 

Both of my ds have been 'young' but we haven't held them back because they were ready academically & emotionally for school. But we are now seeing huge issues with this as oldest ds plays sports...he is competing with kids who are a year older than him in age, but in the same grade. It's not such an issue until you're playing football with the guys who have already hit the 'sprout' and you feel like the runt. Hmm, maybe sports should be grouped by ages rather than grade.

 

To each his own, of course, but it really bugs me. From our experience kindergarten was pretty much free preschool, so I can't imagine many instances where a child is 'not ready.' I'm sure there are some, but not as many as are 'held' back.

[Heather in AL]

My ds' birthday is May 7, and we started him in K when he was 5 (he will be turning 15 in a few months, so this is from 10 years ago). He was the smallest & youngest in his class. We learned quickly that around here, it was "the thing" to hold off for that extra year.... not because of academic or maturity reasons, but.... are you ready for this?.... so they would be the biggest kid on the team and get football scholarships. :confused: Honestly. I had several people tell me this is why they waited to send their son to K. I know some aren't ready for the material, and that's fine, but to purposely hold back a child to let them 'get bigger' with the intention of being the biggest/oldest tight end on the varsity team is awful.

 

I also know that several of the boys who were 'redshirtted' for this reason were my ds' tormentors. They were HUGE and took pleasure out of being the bullies. I am *totally* not saying that boys who are redshirted will be bullies... please don't think that. I just know that of the 5 worst bullies my ds had to contend with, 4 of them were redshirtted by their parents for athletic reasons.

 

As an aside, when I was a junior in high school, there were two boys in my history class that looked old enough to be in college. They seemed to be very angry, so most people avoided them. One finally dropped out because he didn't want to sit in high school until he was 19 or 20. Can't say that I blame him! I was more than ready to get out when I did at 17!!! Having 19, 20 year olds mixed in with younger kids is troublesome to me.

 

I'm saddened to see that redshirting is so prevalent now. I know some "need" it, but most, I believe, can handle the work. And, if not, what ever happened to 'repeating a grade'?

[Heather in AL]

Hey Cougarmom!

 

You posted while I was typing! :D So, the athletic thing is happening in your area, too, eh? I bet it's pretty widespread, sadly.

[Sherry in OH]

Kindergarten used to be for socialization and getting children ready for first grade - ie, learn to sit when told, stand in line, and eat/visit the restroom on a schedule. In kindergarten, children learned the alphabet, how to write their first names, how to count, and how to tie their shoes. Children attended for 3-4 hours a day. This time included nap time, circle time (story time), and play. At age 4 1/2 or 5, most children were ready for this.

 

Today's kindergarten is more like first grade used to be - academics rather than play. Children are being pushed to do tasks that they are not developmentally ready to do. Many boys, especially, lack the fine muscle control needed to succeed. Waiting a year gives them time to mature.

[Carol in Cal.]

the state standards for K are very high. Kids are supposed to be ready sentences of CVC words by about January of their kindergarten year. One teacher I know who was asked how many in her class would be likely to accomplish this replied, "Probably two." That means that 18 of 20 children in her class are defined as failures! In KINDERGARTEN! This is just plain wrong, but the teachers have no control over this. They have to do as they are told. So more and more parents are holding their kids back a year if they can afford it--saying that they are not 'ready' for kindergarten. The truth is, they may be plenty ready for a developmentally appropriate kindergarten, but they are not ready for this level of kindergarten.

[teamturner]

Of course, now I know that 'red shirts' means you don't survivie the alien fight. :D No more red shirts.

 

:lol::lol: That's exactly what I thought she meant by 'red shirts' and I had to see what this post was all about!!

[LauraGB]

I'm so confused by all of it, frankly. I'm not sure what age has to do with anything. Wouldn't it be best to base these things readiness, ability, maturity? I had children who were more advanced than the grade they were placed in - and went through some serious bs before I finally pulled them out. Bored children don't fare well in school. On the flip side, there are several children who are simply not ready. I really don't understand the birthday/age thing at all.

 

And in addition, if so many districts are advocating 4 year old Kindergarten, that must mean some would be in K for what - 3 years? (Okay, I have to assume this is just me not thinking this through...)

[Tammyla]

Better to send (perhaps) a more mature almost 20 yr old to college than a (perhaps) immature 17 yr old.

 

Maybe 5 yrs old made sense when we weren't expected to live for 90 years. Whoowee, an extra year at home. Call the wahmbulance. :auto::D

 

:iagree:I was that 17 yr old and feel a mature 19/20 yr old is a much better option.;)

[Haiku]

I don't think it is always even a good idea. I'm sure it gives an advantage at the younger grades but I imagine there are some grown men who don't need to be turning 18 in the middle of their junior year. I think that some personalities would have trouble with that and it could backfire. Turning 18 and launching into college/ career/ etc. kind of go hand in hand in my mind. I was stir crazy when I graduated and I was 17. I can't imagine a bright, well adjusted child having to wait until a few months past 19 yo to graduate. That doesn't feel right to me.

 

 

Also a good point.

 

Tara

[Lolly]

Haven't read all the replies.

 

If "red-shirting" is done for sport related reason, it is wrong. That is what the term implies to me because that is where I believe it originated?.

 

But, I think many people are waiting to send their children to school because of academic reasons. Most kindergartens are now almost what first grade was back in the day. That is where children are expected to learn basic addition, subtraction, and reading. By pushing the expectations down a grade level, it has made many children not ready for school. I think what we are seeing is more of a self-correction of a system that has gone haywire.

[LibraryLover]

Older young men in high school who might have difficulty is a failure of our cookie-cutter system, not of the age of the person.

 

There is no reason kids need to be separated by age for learning. There is no reason older teens (or younger children) could not be of of use to their community/school when they are 18 or 19.

 

I know our high school has opportunity for any student to take classes at the local university, be released from school to volunteer or work etc. They can also graduate early if they wish, no matter how old they when they hit high school. Many kids here do high school in 3 yrs. I know one who is currently in law school. There are many schools which are going beyond a one- size- fits -all mentality.

 

If one is worried about a 19 yr old high school student being too big to 'control', I would say you lost that kid a long time, and it's not because he was 6 in kindergarten.

[mommyto3]

In Florida, the child must be 5yrs before school starts in Sept to be able to start K. My ds7's birthday is in Feb. I started HSing K when he was 4-1/2yrs, he turned 5 in the middle of his K year. He was very ready and I couldn't see making him wait until he was 5-1/2. Right now he's in 3rd grade and will turn 8 in Feb. His 9yr niece is also in 3rd grade. Her birthday is in Jan and she had to wait to start school since she is not HSed. For ds7, this has worked very nicely. He does great at 3rd grade level work and does well socially also. Yes, he may also be the youngest, but so was I and I managed fine.

 

Ds6 has a June birthday and started K when he was 5. He wasn't ready until then and he's doing fine in 1st grade now. His cousin is also in 1st grade and just turned 7yrs. There's nearly a yr between them, yet they're in the same grade.

 

I can see where this would be difficult for a teacher in a classroom setting. Having huge gaps in the ages of students could prove challenging.

[LibraryLover]

 

I can see where this would be difficult for a teacher in a classroom setting. Having huge gaps in the ages of students could prove challenging.

 

 

But so what? How many classrooms exist where every one of the 20 or so kids is at the exact same place, no matter their age? All on the same page emotionally? Socially?

 

Homeschooling a family is challening at times.

Edited January 4, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Starr]

Now to increase the driving age to 18 and even everything out.

[LibraryLover]

Now to increase the driving age to 18 and even everything out.

 

 

Yea. People with incomplete frontal lobe development are out driving. ;) Including my own kid. There is a reason fighter pilots are young and male. (No offense to the wonderful young males out there, but there is something very unique about young men).

Edited January 4, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Haiku]

 

Homeschooling a family is challening at times.

 

Yes, but most families do not have 20-25 kids the same approximate age who are expected to conform to a one-size-fits-all curriculum.

 

I was 13 when I started high school. I don't really want my 13 year old in high school with a bunch of 19 or 20 year olds. People in high school are NOT treated like mature adults, they are often treated very condescendingly, and I can certainly imagine that a 19 or 20 year old in high school feeling extreme frustration at being treated like a child.

 

Tara

[teachermom2834]

Another problem I am seeing is that the kids that are being redshirted are ones whose parents can afford the extra year of day care/ nursery school/ stay at home. With the exception of my own ds, the other boys I know who are not redshirted are coming from homes where getting them in school that first opportunity was important for financial reasons. So some of the kids who had a slight disadvantage to start with socioeconomically are the same ones having to deal with the disadvantage of being younger than their classmates. IOW, some of the ones who are least ready are the ones being sent in that position.

 

I can see both sides of it. I've been on both sides of it. If my ds ever does go to school I will have to consider placing him back a year to get with his peers. If I keep him homeschooling all the way through I think he will be fine where he is.

 

I understand what some are saying about K being like 1st grade used to be. If that is the case I would rather see them just push back the cutoff so that kids have to be 6. I suspect ,though, that the tendency to redshirt anyone close to the cutoff with just continue to trickle down because no one wants to be the youngest.

 

I can see both sides but I'm sure caught in the middle and wish there were at least 3 or 4 other kids that didn't reshirt so that we wouldn't be quite so out of sync. One size doesn't fit all but I end up feeling like neither side fits my ds :)

[LibraryLover]

Cookie cutter systems fail everyone.

 

 

Yes, but most families do not have 20-25 kids the same approximate age who are expected to conform to a one-size-fits-all curriculum.

 

I was 13 when I started high school. I don't really want my 13 year old in high school with a bunch of 19 or 20 year olds. People in high school are NOT treated like mature adults, they are often treated very condescendingly, and I can certainly imagine that a 19 or 20 year old in high school feeling extreme frustration at being treated like a child.

 

Tara

[mommyto3]

But so what? How many classrooms exist where every one of the 20 or so kids is at the exact same place, no matter their age? All on the same page emotionally? Socially?

 

Homeschooling a family is challening at times.

 

Smaller gaps wouldn't be a problem, but if the kids are up to a year apart, I could see it creating social and academic challenges that I don't believe a school setting is equipped for. But that may have more to do with it being a school setting rather than age differences. There are a lot of kids here that get shuffled through the grades without having learned what they are supposed to, according to the school's standards.

[mommyto3]

Cookie cutter systems fail everyone.

 

I agree. And I only see huge age gaps as another hindrance to the system.

[LibraryLover]

Smaller gaps wouldn't be a problem, but if the kids are up to a year apart, I could see it creating social and academic challenges that I don't believe a school setting is equipped for. But that may have more to do with it being a school setting rather than age differences. There are a lot of kids here that get shuffled through the grades without having learned what they are supposed to, according to the school's standards.

 

I think that if a teacher can't handle an age range of up to 18 months in the early grades, there's a problem. A big one. If you look at top private schools (I mean 'good' ones ftr) you will see that an 18 mos age range is pretty common and should not pose a huge challenge for a good teacher who knows what he/she is doing.

 

That most public schools cannot and do not support this is not a failure of the child's age, but a failure of the inflexible system itself. This inability to accommodate a range learners and ages is a main reason I am a hser. The people I've met in my elementary schooling community are kind and decent, but mostly not creative and not flexible. Most cannot accommodate a range of learners in their classroom. Many are not as educated as they need to be for such a challenging job.

[Kfamily]

I used to teach at a small, private Montessori school (many years ago:001_smile:). My first year I taught a combined class of grades 4, 5 and 6 and the following year I taught the combined class of grades 1, 2 and 3. In Montessori schools there are usually at least two teachers. When teaching the class of the primary grades there was myself and the head teacher (she was Montessori trained and at the time I was just starting my training) who were both full time teachers as well as a part time teacher who worked with some children with special needs. This was one of the real benefits of this type of school. Our students could be working at whatever level they needed in any subject. So our school had four classrooms grouped with Preschool through K (so our K students stayed with the preschool students), then 1st-3rd, 4th-6th and then a Middle School class for grades 7-8. Our school stopped at grade 8.

[Mrs.MacGyver]

This is one thing that drives me crazy. I think it has gotten out of hand--because many people hold their kids back so they will be better at sports. Seriously...that's the kind that bother me. I have had several friends who do this with sports being their only consideration. And I can see how difficult it would be to have such a span of ages within a class...especially in our ps system where they are placed together only by grade level.

 

Both of my ds have been 'young' but we haven't held them back because they were ready academically & emotionally for school. But we are now seeing huge issues with this as oldest ds plays sports...he is competing with kids who are a year older than him in age, but in the same grade. It's not such an issue until you're playing football with the guys who have already hit the 'sprout' and you feel like the runt. Hmm, maybe sports should be grouped by ages rather than grade.

 

To each his own, of course, but it really bugs me. From our experience kindergarten was pretty much free preschool, so I can't imagine many instances where a child is 'not ready.' I'm sure there are some, but not as many as are 'held' back.

 

 

:iagree:We have encountered this same sort of thing. We have lived in very big football and wrestling areas, and I'd say 95-100% of the families with boys were holding them back as long as they could get away with it simply because of sports. And, because everyone else was doing it, you almost had to go along with it as well or else your child would be so mismatched physically if you didn't. It was ridiculous! The crazy thing is that the schools had absolutely no problem with all of this mess, but when we went to them to try to have our DD jump ahead past K (which was just playtime at our school - almost zero academics) -- (she was an older Kinder age - and was completely ready emotionally, academically, and maturity wise to jump into 1st)... they had a complete heart attack and thought we had lost our minds. Needless to say, she was at home being homeschooled after 2 months... maybe it worked out best this way for her, because she would have been about a year and a half to 2 years younger than her classmates by just skipping one grade.

 

I do not have a problem with people holding kids back who are not emotionally ready and perhaps on the cusp of the age lines, but this holding them back for sports is absolutely insanely out of hand.

[LibraryLover]

Montessori schools do this quite well. It takes thinking outside the box. :)

 

I used to teach at a small, private Montessori school (many years ago:001_smile:). My first year I taught a combined class of grades 4, 5 and 6 and the following year I taught the combined class of grades 1, 2 and 3. In Montessori schools there are usually at least two teachers. When teaching the class of the primary grades there was myself and the head teacher (she was Montessori trained and at the time I was just starting my training) who were both full time teachers as well as a part time teacher who worked with some children with special needs. This was one of the real benefits of this type of school. Our students could be working at whatever level they needed in any subject. So our school had four classrooms grouped with Preschool through K (so our K students stayed with the preschool students), then 1st-3rd, 4th-6th and then a Middle School class for grades 7-8. Our school stopped at grade 8.

[Impish]

I'm all confuzzled. I've never heard of red shirting.

 

That being said...my eldest was born in Dec. The school board we were in had a Dec 31st cut off. He would have been far better served if he hadn't started the year he did, but had to wait. He was just too immature.

 

Tazzie has a Feb birthday. According to the ps, he can't start K until next year. But, the hsing board we're with allowed him to start 'Reading Readiness' this year, and then grade 1 next year. No way in heaven would he be ready for gr 1 in ps. What we plan to do (if we're in the same province at the time) is to have him do two years of gr 1. The only reason really, is the funding available to us by doing so. Not all provinces have the funding the one we currently live in does, so that makes the difference. I'd still be doing the same things with him regardless, funding just makes it easier on our bank acct ;)

[LibraryLover]

I agree. And I only see huge age gaps as another hindrance to the system.

 

 

There is not a shred of evidence or documentation that shows age ranges in classrooms to be a hindrance. (I would agree that lack of training and education given to most teachers is a hindrance when an age range is involved).

 

We know that children do not children learn better or faster or are happier or more 'productive' when all 6 yr olds are together or all 10 yr olds are together.

 

That most teachers would find is easier to teach a group of exact-same learners of the exact same age is not a benefit to real children.

Edited January 4, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Gretchen in NJ]

Ok, I guess I was seeing it more form MIL's viewpoint, which is that her first graders are all over the universe in terms of readiness now that their age span is so widened.

 

I didn't even do K with my dd, and only did K with my son because he wanted to do what dd was doing, so who am I to point fingers, eh?

 

Probably the push should be to push the schooling age UP, not down, as in universal preschool and the like.

 

Tara

 

I don't care for 'red shirting.' It did not work out well for my girls. The boys who the school 'red shirted' were so much bigger then my girls and the other children. All of these children went to preschool too. Mine were the only children who did not attend a preschool. I was a homeschooler before I knew I was.;)

 

The K teacher didn't even care if they had attended preschool or not. She would just look at the birthday date. She looked at my dd10's birthday in August. I told her not to go there. She was already reading. The teacher did not care.:001_huh: I stood my ground and said no way.

[mcconnellboys]

In a lot of areas boys are very often held back at least a year, if not two years, simply because of maturity issues. Schools want them to test better as they get older and an older, more mature boy produces better test results in most cases.

[cougarmom4]

In a lot of areas boys are very often held back at least a year, if not two years, simply because of maturity issues. Schools want them to test better as they get older and an older, more mature boy produces better test results in most cases.

 

Yes, but my question to this would be, What five-year-old is mature?!? What is it we are expecting in kindergarten?

[Haiku]

I think that if a teacher can't handle an age range of up to 18 months in the early grades, there's a problem. A big one. If you look at top private schools (I mean 'good' ones ftr) you will see that an 18 mos age range is pretty common and should not pose a huge challenge for a good teacher who knows what he/she is doing.

 

I completely disagree with this. I think that having kids come to first grade who are reading on 4th or 5th grade level and having kids come to first grade who are still struggling with learning the letter sounds, or kids who are already doing basic math versus kids who are still trying to understand one-to-one correspondence in numbers, or having kids come to first grade who still cry and cling to their mothers versus kids who are almost 3rd-grade aged, is a huge issue for teachers. Add in 25 different personalities on top of that and I think you are expecting teachers to do the ridiculously impossible ... which is, of course, a huge part of why we homeschool.

 

Tara

[extendedforecast]

 

What's up with that? I understand if your kid has an August or September birthday, but if a February birthday is now considered "late," what people are essentially saying is that they want their kids to be more than a year older than some of their peers! How can a teacher effectively teach kids who come to first grade with 12-16 months' difference in maturity and skills?

 

Are people really that concerned about their kids' ability to succeed?

 

Tara

 

SO I have to say up front that I did this with my DD. She entered K as a 5 year old born in June, struggled a lot the whole year, but had an excellent teacher who helped her tremendously. In first grade, the expectations jumped so much that she couldn't handle it emotionally or academically. At that point, we pulled her out of PS and homeschooled her at a late K-early 1st grade level. She returned to school the next year as an entering 1st grader, and she did very well, even with a teacher who had no control of the class.

 

That said, something that worries me about this trend is that parents aren't considering the future. I don't know if this has been mentioned, but these kids are going to be 19yo when they graduate. The majority of their peers will have graduated and will be independent. Will these children be more likely to drop out, given their age?

 

Cindy

[LibraryLover]

The testing piece is infuriating, but the maturity piece is not.

 

There are so many ways to engage a child, to excite a child about learning than sticking him or her in an (often) uncreative classroom for hours a day at a young age.

 

If you have to do it, waiting will rarely harm.

 

( not talking about the parent who is abusive)

 

 

In a lot of areas boys are very often held back at least a year, if not two years, simply because of maturity issues. Schools want them to test better as they get older and an older, more mature boy produces better test results in most cases.

Edited January 4, 2010 by LibraryLover

[Emmy]

I'm a big advocate for holding back summer birthday kids if needed, but spring birthdays do seem pretty early to consider holding back. I really think it's a self perpetuating cycle though - the more people that do it, the more think they need to, whether it's indicated or not.

 

I also agree that kindergarten isn't what it was 30 years ago - and therefore it isn't as appropriate for all 5 years olds as it used to be.

 

FWIW my son - that I "red-shirted" if you will, ;) will graduate high school at 18, not 19 or 20....

[LibraryLover]

It's not impossible. The sad thing is that we think it's impossible.

 

I have seen it done well over and over. But not in cookie -cutter schools.

 

What you are describing here has absolutly nothing to do with age, but with the failure of a system.

 

 

 

 

I completely disagree with this. I think that having kids come to first grade who are reading on 4th or 5th grade level and having kids come to first grade who are still struggling with learning the letter sounds, or kids who are already doing basic math versus kids who are still trying to understand one-to-one correspondence in numbers, or having kids come to first grade who still cry and cling to their mothers versus kids who are almost 3rd-grade aged, is a huge issue for teachers. Add in 25 different personalities on top of that and I think you are expecting teachers to do the ridiculously impossible ... which is, of course, a huge part of why we homeschool.

 

Tara

[lulubelle]

We are doing it for our 2 boys. It is also one of the reasons homeschooling has come more easily for us. It is so confusing about who is in the K room. And, there are so many different interpretations of it. My first son is emotionally/socially behind and my second son is academically behind. I was told by my second sons preschool teacher last year that he would not make it in the local public kindergarten. We have each one of our boys a year behind on the town record. It gives them much more room to grow. I can understand how difficult it would be for a teacher. Love homeschooling!

[TravelingChris]

My son entered school early and graduated early so I wasn't talking about myself when I said that having a bored maybe angry 19yo still in high school may not be all that great.

 

If someone is homeschooling, I think they should have their child learn at the rate that is best for the child. No reason to think that just because a child takes a bit longer to start reading that they can't finish up by age 18. We don't actually have to do 13 years of school (K-12)