tex-mex Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Hey -- it's like a Dr. Phil question to the Hive. BACKGROUND: Parents divorced when I was 4. Never had contact with dad until the age of 16 (met him 3x's with my sisters). Left for college at the age of 17 and established new wings for a great life -- and never looked back. I am proud to say I have never asked for a dime from my family for college and worked my butt off to earn my degree. I paid off my loans in record time. The last thing I would want is to rely on my family as they are so poor and in tough shape. When we did have the big bucks, I would support my sisters and dad. Monthly checks. Gifts. Now, money is non-existant for us. (My sisters recently did not get that they would not be getting a Christmas gift from me... I'm like a revolving $$$ ATM to them.) :glare: Major issues with mom and sisters (long story). Mom died in 1992. I walked away from my share of the probate and estate. I didn't want any of my mom's $$. My sisters needed it more than I did. (However, my sister's lost my mom's house and were homeless for a while.) Sisters are unreliable to look after their own families due to issues and welfare. Sooo, which leaves me as the "responsible" person to take care of dad. I barely know him. He has never made the initiative to visit us or get to know his grandson. When we do talk over the phone or in person -- it is awkward and I get drawn into the tawdry story of WHY he left us. (Like he is expecting me to forgive him... that is another story. My mom was nuts and he bailed on us kids leaving us to fend for ourselves. He lived 15 miles away and had no contact with us nor gave us $$ support. We were very poor. TMI.) PRESENT SITUATION: A few years ago, my dad mailed me a copy of his funeral insurance card and told me I was the beneficiary. And to never tell my sisters. I understand why he chose me -- as my sisters would cash in the $$ and never give him a decent burial. I have no issue with going by his last wishes and my hubby (ordained minister) performing the funeral service. But as years go on, I get the feeling he kinda wants us to take him in as his income (migrant farmworker) is limited. I feel torn about this. Part of me is resentful that he wants me to take care of him -- and he never took care of me as a child (while my mom abused me). I am mad at my sisters for being so irresponsible leaving me holding the bag for his care. They know him far better than I do as they live closer to him (1 hour away) and I live 1500 miles away and haven't seen him in person since 2004. He has never come outright and said it -- but I get the feeling he is hoping we can in the future help him out. Recently, we've gone from riches to rags -- lost our nest egg in a investment scheme and unemployment. Bankruptcy. Lost our home. And are basically starting from scratch all over again. We don't have the $$ or room to help him. If things do not change in 6 months we may have to end up moving in with hubby's family. What do I do? Part of me feels like a heel for not helping him out in his old age -- despite the fact he is like a stranger to me. :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Just for clarification, at the moment, there are no monetary or physical or time demands needed? Yes? {hugs} What a life and what a horrible turn of financial events for you. I'm so sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonshineLearner Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I'd try to help him find the social resources that are available. Isn't it right to explain that your family isn't doing well?? That you aren't able to help your own family, yet alone anyone else? BUT, that you want to help him find any social help that you can for him?? Hugs... and then more hugs... Carrie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted December 30, 2009 Author Share Posted December 30, 2009 (edited) Just for clarification, at the moment, there are no monetary or physical or time demands needed? Yes? {hugs} What a life and what a horrible turn of financial events for you. I'm so sorry. Hi Joanne, Yes, he is fine -- he has his pension. And he has his brother and family living nearby. He has arranged for a lady neighbor to cook for him 2x's a day and they share/split groceries. Ironically, he is doing much better than my family is doing $$$. But he is in his late 70's and his eyesight is not good. He drinks to self-medicate himself. And I worry about him. But there are family (his brothers) nearby whom can help him out better than I. It is the subtle message I get from him that really bugs me. I am in no position to help anyone. Bless your heart for asking. You've also been in tough times, girl! :grouphug: We'll be fine. Things happen for a reason, que no? I grew up poor and we didn't have electricity or a telephone for years. My family now is not that strapped. We have a roof over our heads and food in our bellies and this month (Praise God) the bills are paid. But next month is always like -- oooh Lordy -- keep those prayers going. LOL It could be worse. I am so fiercely independent of a cuss that it is hard for me to look at my family and say we are in trouble. They know. But it is still hard. Edited December 30, 2009 by tex-mex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keptwoman Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 No. You are not obliged to support him. I'm sorry. It sounds like the last thing you need is expectation from anyone else right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 No. You are not obliged to support him. I'm sorry. It sounds like the last thing you need is expectation from anyone else right now. :iagree: You've done your share. Rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IsabelC Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 It seems like you're very conflicted about this. Forgive me if this is totally out of line, BUT... It really sounds as though you still have major baggage (understandably!) from your family situation. Your post sounds like you definitely don't feel like you are able to take on responsibility for your father. And yet you somehow feel bad about that, and want this decision to be validated by others. You don't have to be your dad's caretaker, and you don't need everyone else to tell you this. Has he even said/done anything to indicate he is expecting financial support from you? Or are you assuming this because you are so used to the burden of being the 'responsible one' in your family? Don't let yourself get weighed down with labels from the past. Concentrate your energy on your own life and let go of this obligation that you're feeling. If, in the future, you are willing and able to offer financial assistance to your dad, you can still do this, as your own (and your husband's) decision, but not because you feel forced to by duty to this man whom you hardly even know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peela Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Sounds to me like you need to take care of your most immediate family first...taking on an elderly alcoholic is hardly going to be good for your family. I know when we take on dh's father, who is has alcoholic dementia, for a few days to give his wife a break, it is a major strain on our family. I know it "shouldnt" be like that, and in an ideal world, we would all care for our old, wise and caring parents...but it aint like that, and they have also sown the seeds in their lives. You care...you dont need to feel guilty about not being able to be all things to everyone you care about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pippen Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 It seems like you're very conflicted about this.Forgive me if this is totally out of line, BUT... It really sounds as though you still have major baggage (understandably!) from your family situation. Your post sounds like you definitely don't feel like you are able to take on responsibility for your father. And yet you somehow feel bad about that, and want this decision to be validated by others. You don't have to be your dad's caretaker, and you don't need everyone else to tell you this. Has he even said/done anything to indicate he is expecting financial support from you? . All that seems to have transpired here is that he made you his benficiary for funeral expenses. Personally I think one of the worst things that can be done for adult family members is to support them financially when they have the means to do it for themselves, doubly so when they weren't even expressing need for it. For years I watched an aunt give very generously to her grown children and in the end one of my cousins and his wife wound up financially dependent upon them. My aunt always felt like she was doing them a great favor but in reality it has ruined them. If they can't make the bills or are out of work, there's always someone there to pick up the pieces. My aunt is gone now and my uncle is doing it, but he won't be around forever. I don't know what has transpired between you and your sisters, but in this case generosity wasn't the least bit good for this couple. Maybe there is no subtle message here, but you've been so used to caring for family members financially that you think it's there. If the time comes that he needs assistance and you truly want to help--either tangibly or financially--then do so, otherwise you are under no obligation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalanamak Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 :iagree: You've done your share. :iagree: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hillfarm Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I agree that I would consider the extent of your obligation to help him find the social services that he would need. After all, both you and he have been paying into that system your whole lives. There's nothing wrong with tapping into it when someone has need and qualifies. I would be sure to let him know now that your fortunes have changed and that you are unable to be the financial support for your extended family that you have been in the past. Not that you do, but be sure not to let ego cause you to give him the impression that everything is just fine with you. That would cause him to see you as being selfish when that is just not the case. As always, two wrongs don't make a right. He treated you and your family horribly in the past. Be sure you don't make your decision just to spite him for that neglect. You have to be the daughter that you feel you need to be. The one that you can respect. My mother and I have some major issues and she frequently tries to trick me into saying that I will always care for her in my own home and never put her in a nursing home. But I can't make that promise--I will do my best to assure that she is adequately fed, housed, and well treated, but due to her toxic personality I will not promise to bring her into my home where she could ruin three more lives. I definitely won't leave her out on the streets, but the fact is that she did nothing to develop a loving relationship with me that would cause me to be willing to make such a sacrifice for her. She did not model love and self sacrifice toward us, so it should not surprise her that it is not overflowing in me. I have to be the daughter that I believe I need to be, not the one she wants me to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcconnellboys Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I'm sorry for your situation. I don't know that I have any good advice. Your story reminds me of Frost's poem about the hired hand - home is the place where, when you go there, they have to take you in.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 It sounds like that sense of obligation is coming from you, so I suppose that's a question you'll need to ask yourself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rookie Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Um, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayle in Guatemala Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Here's what I'd do: --find out what social resources are at his disposal for when the time comes that he needs it (medicare, social security, food stamps, whatever) --make it abundantly clear that you are not able to financially help in any way, nor are you able to take him into your home --talk with dh, find out what boundaries for a relationship you both are comfortable with (holidays, visits, etc) and make those abundantly clear You have no obligation to him as far as supporting him in any way. But, I do understand your feeling that you want to make sure he's okay. I would have done the same for my dad eventhough he left us pretty much in the same way--I would have wanted to make sure he's okay. It's a good idea to define those boundaries with your sisters as well so they don't expect you to get too involved. :grouphug:I can really sympathize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jujsky Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 It seems like you're very conflicted about this.Forgive me if this is totally out of line, BUT... It really sounds as though you still have major baggage (understandably!) from your family situation. Your post sounds like you definitely don't feel like you are able to take on responsibility for your father. And yet you somehow feel bad about that, and want this decision to be validated by others. You don't have to be your dad's caretaker, and you don't need everyone else to tell you this. Has he even said/done anything to indicate he is expecting financial support from you? Or are you assuming this because you are so used to the burden of being the 'responsible one' in your family? Don't let yourself get weighed down with labels from the past. Concentrate your energy on your own life and let go of this obligation that you're feeling. If, in the future, you are willing and able to offer financial assistance to your dad, you can still do this, as your own (and your husband's) decision, but not because you feel forced to by duty to this man whom you hardly even know. :iagree: Couldn't have said it better myself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PinkInTheBlue Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I haven't read the responses so I'm not sure how this will fit in. :) My opinion is, no. I don't believe you have an obligation to help him. Of course, since you talked a good bit about money, I assume you are refering to supporting him financially. If you feel like it, you might could assist him in finding assistance available later when he needs it but you are not his retirement safety net. I feel like there is a particular family member we have that views us this way. I greatly resent it. I don't appreciate that this person seems to expect the day when we'll come swooping in and take care of their life. Especially since they've actively made their life the way it is now. I'm not your Plan B after you do whatever you want. I have 3 boys to raise and worry about, you know? You do too. (Well, not 3 boys but you get what I mean. :) You have to take care of your family for what all of you are going through.) That's my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plansrme Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 A number of states (15, maybe?) have laws on the books that require adult children to financially support their parents. Morally, I agree that you have done waaaaay more than your share, and I personally find these laws ridiculous. I have no idea how often these laws are enforced, but I just thought I would throw it out there for the sake of having all of the facts. Terri (yes, my state, my parents' home state and my in-laws' states all have these laws, but I would move if one of them ever tried to enforce this against me) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plansrme Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 http://www.elderlawanswers.com/resources/article.asp?id=7666§ion=4 Looks like it's 30, according to this article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnandtinagilbert Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 Funny first...I haven't heard "oh Looordy" in ages and it made me smile and miss Texas! To the meat of your situtation. I can soooooo relate. Brokeness, dissertion, adoption, sole responsible person...yeah, I get that. Perhaps we're long lost neighbors or cousins ;) You're not a Macias or Barboza are you? Bottom line, you only do what you can. I'd defer to dh. What does he say? I can't tell if you want to do this or not by your post. Honestly, although I don't find your obligation, I get the feeling like you wish you could. I can't answer this for you, but I'd say I agree with the others as far as helping from the outside. If you get in the position to help further, then act at that time. Too much speculation of your situation will drive you nutty and won't help. I'll pray for all of you. I can so relate to how this brings you a sense of happiness (by being redeemed to your father), but also a pressure you don't feel like you deserve. Prayers to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephanieZ Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 "Will not take care of himself" does not equal "Cannot take care of himself" If your father is recently/currently kind to your family, I think you have a duty to be *kind* to him. That means taking a little time (say an afternoon each month), to visit him, take him a meal or out for lunch. . . go with him to an appt (that you might need to help schedule) with a social services agency, etc. If he has an income (pension) and qualifies for social security, medicare, etc., then he sounds like he can be financially independent. You may want to help him find cheaper living arrangements at some point, or help him find a doctor, or whatever. But, in no way do you need to give him cash help. He doesn't NEED it, and you certainly don't OWE him. My personal feeling is that I'd feel obligated to ensure my parent was fed, clothed, safely housed, and had medical care (unless they had been abusive or neglectful . . .) BUT, my parents did all that (and more) for me. In your case, your dad totally neglected you and your family. I think that nullifies any duty you might have had. So, anything you do is pure charity on your part, IMHO. He is lucky you talk to him! So, do what feels good to you. You could help him find things like Angel Food Ministries and/or food banks for groceries. If/when you can afford it, you could pay for the food box(es) and help arrange delivery -- but that'd be just charity for you, not like you OWE it. Likewise, you could help him get set up with social service, etc as needed. Or, find doctors, etc. You don't OWE *him* anything as he didn't care for you when it was his duty to do so. Whatever you do for him is a pure gift on your part and will get you good karma. . . but he isn't your obligation as he didn't fulfill his own duties, IMHO. I like giving charity close to home when I can. I'd rather give my baby gear to a poor mother I met/know than an official charity (hang the tax deduction). . . So, when you can afford charity (not now obviously), then you might direct it to your dad. . . But, charity is not about obligation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I have a different take on this. I think part of you *wants* to be obligated. Because that would mean that you had a relationship with him, a positive one. This is seemingly the last tenuous bridge to having a Dad, and you're not sure if you should/could hang on to that last line of hope. Caring for him won't make him into the Dad you've longed for and missed. You are the mother, the wife now. You have responsibilities in your own home. Talk to your dh. Both of you pray about it. Listen for the answer. And follow what you hear. I know how hard this is, I truly do. Wolf's mother is elderly. She is going to need some sort of care, sooner than later. From a recent phone call, we fear that dementia has a strong hold, but because we're in another province, there's squat we can do (her sibs deny her having any problems at all). We also know that there's no way we could have her in our home, dementia or not. MIL fits the NPD dx so clearly its like it was made specifically for her. Wolf can't handle being around her for more than a few hours. I play goal tender btwn them, because of trying to lessen the insults and such to my dh from her. So yeah. I really know what its like to wonder about obligations to someone that is a stranger with a genetic tie, and a history of hurt. It sucks. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rookie Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I thought about it some more. Still NO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternalknot Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 When we did have the big bucks, I would support my sisters and dad. Monthly checks. Gifts. Now, money is non-existant for us. (My sisters recently did not get that they would not be getting a Christmas gift from me... I'm like a revolving $$$ ATM to them.) :glare: We have a family situation that is somewhat similar - those of us who have extra make a point to help support those of us who do not, if we are able to do so. This is how our culture is, and while it's not always outwardly expressed as an expectation ... it's a strong unwritten one. Some people find it easier to ignore, some of us still feel the pulls of our cultural expectations. But as years go on, I get the feeling he kinda wants us to take him in as his income (migrant farmworker) is limited. I feel torn about this. Part of me is resentful that he wants me to take care of him -- and he never took care of me as a child (while my mom abused me). He has never come outright and said it -- but I get the feeling he is hoping we can in the future help him out. And are basically starting from scratch all over again. We don't have the $$ or room to help him. If things do not change in 6 months we may have to end up moving in with hubby's family. I think it will be a very challenging exercise, perhaps even a journey, but I really think you should separate the above two situations. Situation A is that your dad was a lousy dad. Situation B is that he seems to want you to take care of him now. I really don't think it should be tit for tat, that B should be contingent upon A. You have worked hard all of your adult life to be the person that rises up from a difficult childhood; keep up that momentum and work forward, rather than with one eye looking back. I grew up in a culture where the primary obligation is to your elders, to your parents. It's completely different from the American standard that our first priorities should be our spouses and/or children. Your financial situation should guide financial decisions to contribute (or not) to your father's care. Outside of that, I do feel like you should help your father in every other way possible (social services, etc.) just because it's the right thing to do ... not because he lived up to his own parental role (he didn't), but because you are living up to yours (setting an example to your children). You've already done this to an extent, sharing the fortunes of your Good Days with sisters and Dad. You're a good person, a caring person and you've proven that already. Not to they who can seem ungrateful, but to yourself and to your children. I don't know that you could forgive yourself otherwise, once he eventually passes, if you didn't help him to within your capabilities while he was alive. :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineFarmMom Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 From your info, I'd say no, you are not obligated. If you don't have the $$, then that is another reason. I think it's really something only you, your dh, and God can decide, though, honestly. I'd definitely pray about it until I felt the peace to move on, one way or the other. I can get all of the outside opinions in the world on an issue, from all the people I know and trust, but if I'm missing that peace, then it's because I need to pray more about it to check what God's leading is on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dulcimeramy Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I'm afraid of the flames that may come my way, but I'll still say it: There are two reasons for extending yourself to an unworthy relative. #1. You may be his only connection to the saving grace found in Christ. His heart was hard toward you and toward righteousness all those years ago, but he is an old man now. He is contemplating his death, and seeking some connection with his only responsible child. Your father's life on earth has been all wrong. Your life was all wrong, too, largely because of him. But you've redeemed the time! Your life on earth is good now, and you are facing eternity with Jesus. Maybe you can be the one to lead your Father to Christ, and your father's eternity can be what God would have it to be. #2. You can teach your children how to honor their parents. If you will take care of this unworthy father, how much more will your children believe that they should take care of you when you are old. These are the reasons my mother gave me for taking care of her sick and elderly (and mean) in-laws when she still had children at home. Mom's strength and love covered a multitude of sins that we were exposed to through them, and now that we children are grown, the yuck has faded away. And there was a lot of yuck. But only the love remains. On the other hand, I would absolutely NOT judge you if you sought out some ways to help that are within your means and more protecting of your family. I understand how it feels to try to break a long ugly chain of dysfunction. I, too, have had to draw a line in the sand and say, "The end. My children will have a life untainted by all this garbage." Praying for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impish Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 On the other hand, I would absolutely NOT judge you if you sought out some ways to help that are within your means and more protecting of your family. I understand how it feels to try to break a long ugly chain of dysfunction. I, too, have had to draw a line in the sand and say, "The end. My children will have a life untainted by all this garbage." Praying for you. I think that's where many people stand, including Wolf and I. His mother is unpleasant to our children, constantly criticizing the way they behave, our parenting, etc. Having someone in the house that is toxic is no way for children to grow up, if its at all preventable. An elderly alcoholic can't be anything but toxic, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PineFarmMom Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I'm afraid of the flames that may come my way, but I'll still say it: No flames here!!! Your mom lived out the Beatitudes. They turn the world's way of doing things on its head, don't they? :) That's great that you have such a fond memory of your mom serving and loving when those things weren't returned to her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnandtinagilbert Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 No flames here!!! Your mom lived out the Beatitudes. They turn the world's way of doing things on its head, don't they? :) That's great that you have such a fond memory of your mom serving and loving when those things weren't returned to her. her children rise up and bless her Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renee in NC Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 I'm afraid of the flames that may come my way, but I'll still say it: There are two reasons for extending yourself to an unworthy relative. #1. You may be his only connection to the saving grace found in Christ. His heart was hard toward you and toward righteousness all those years ago, but he is an old man now. He is contemplating his death, and seeking some connection with his only responsible child. Your father's life on earth has been all wrong. Your life was all wrong, too, largely because of him. But you've redeemed the time! Your life on earth is good now, and you are facing eternity with Jesus. Maybe you can be the one to lead your Father to Christ, and your father's eternity can be what God would have it to be. #2. You can teach your children how to honor their parents. If you will take care of this unworthy father, how much more will your children believe that they should take care of you when you are old. These are the reasons my mother gave me for taking care of her sick and elderly (and mean) in-laws when she still had children at home. Mom's strength and love covered a multitude of sins that we were exposed to through them, and now that we children are grown, the yuck has faded away. And there was a lot of yuck. But only the love remains. On the other hand, I would absolutely NOT judge you if you sought out some ways to help that are within your means and more protecting of your family. I understand how it feels to try to break a long ugly chain of dysfunction. I, too, have had to draw a line in the sand and say, "The end. My children will have a life untainted by all this garbage." Praying for you. :iagree: What an amazing legacy your mother left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 It sounds like he hasn't asked for your help, yet. But maybe you are anticipating it? We took my MIL in after she had open heart surgery. I was pregnant at the time, and after the baby was born (my first), she became unbearable (telling me how to take care of my daughter and getting angry with me when I didn't do what she said--this from a woman who physically abused her own children). My husband had to ask her to leave. She put herself on a waiting list of subsidized housing, and we helped her find a temporary apartment. I didn't feel the least bit bad about it, because she was reaping what she sowed her entire life. We visit her as often as possible, and I send pictures of the kids. I think that we have an obligation to our parents who raised us. When the parent did not raise us, then the obligation is more like the one we have to help the poor and needy in our churches or communities. We help when we can and to the extent we are able. I would say that you should help him find the social services that he is eligible for and help him get rides to the grocery store. As for him wanting to talk about what happened with your mother, I think that is a very common phenomena. My parents are divorced, and my father tried for years to talk about why he left my mom. I just told him, "I lived with my mother a long time. It is not hard to imagine why you left her. But it would not be good for my relationship with her to hear what happened between the two of you." I had to be very insistent and confident about this, and he eventually accepted my wishes and stopped trying to talk about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KidsHappen Posted December 30, 2009 Share Posted December 30, 2009 http://www.elderlawanswers.com/resources/article.asp?id=7666§ion=4 Looks like it's 30, according to this article. Why am I not surprised to see my state on this list? :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted December 31, 2009 Author Share Posted December 31, 2009 It seems like you're very conflicted about this.Forgive me if this is totally out of line, BUT... It really sounds as though you still have major baggage (understandably!) from your family situation. Your post sounds like you definitely don't feel like you are able to take on responsibility for your father. And yet you somehow feel bad about that, and want this decision to be validated by others. You don't have to be your dad's caretaker, and you don't need everyone else to tell you this. Has he even said/done anything to indicate he is expecting financial support from you? Or are you assuming this because you are so used to the burden of being the 'responsible one' in your family? Don't let yourself get weighed down with labels from the past. Concentrate your energy on your own life and let go of this obligation that you're feeling. If, in the future, you are willing and able to offer financial assistance to your dad, you can still do this, as your own (and your husband's) decision, but not because you feel forced to by duty to this man whom you hardly even know. Yes, you hit the nail on the head on this one. Which is why I am psycho-analyzing with the Hive. (LOL) Cheap form of therapy. ;) He has mentioned it in the past. My sister has mentioned it many times how financially she needs my help. My niece always calls to not keep in touch but for a handout $$$. I think underlying issues (i.e. guilt?) do burden me and keep me labeled as the enabler and "responsible" one. Good to discuss this and find the connection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted December 31, 2009 Author Share Posted December 31, 2009 I would be sure to let him know now that your fortunes have changed and that you are unable to be the financial support for your extended family that you have been in the past. Not that you do, but be sure not to let ego cause you to give him the impression that everything is just fine with you. That would cause him to see you as being selfish when that is just not the case. I agree. My dad and I talked frankly this Christmas (over the phone) and I told him that financially our fortunes have changed. Normally, my ego would not be frank and the last thing I would do is show them fragility. Not a good thing. It was good to lay out the cards on the table for once. Very freeing. As always, two wrongs don't make a right. He treated you and your family horribly in the past. Be sure you don't make your decision just to spite him for that neglect. You have to be the daughter that you feel you need to be. The one that you can respect. This is where I struggle. My flesh wants to spite him for what he did to us kids. And my heart says I need to forgive him and be the better person. Hubby says he is welcome in our home should that time comes. I just don't know if I can abandon him -- like he did to me. Kwim? This may be also why I keep my distance with my dad and sisters to avoid being hurt. :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted December 31, 2009 Author Share Posted December 31, 2009 My personal feeling is that I'd feel obligated to ensure my parent was fed, clothed, safely housed, and had medical care (unless they had been abusive or neglectful . . .) BUT, my parents did all that (and more) for me. In your case, your dad totally neglected you and your family. I think that nullifies any duty you might have had. So, anything you do is pure charity on your part, IMHO. He is lucky you talk to him! That is how I feel. He IS lucky I talk to him. My sister doesn't help matters when she nags at me to call him and how horrible I am to not talk to him. I should forgive him. When I do talk to him -- it is not a normal conversation -- as all my dad talks about is a re-hashing of his past sins of abandoning us as kids. Technically, I have forgiven him. That anger/rage against him is dead. I feel peace. But I do resent the fact my family makes me feel like I have to reestablish a relationship with him -- when he never has attempted to do so. I feel like the adult and he is the child. BTW, I finally told sister to stop the nagging and spelled it out for her WHY I feel this way to my dad. She now understands my feelings and does not bring up the subject. However, this Christmas, she called me and told me to call him (I did previously -- left a message) because he is alone and most likely drinking. :glare: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted December 31, 2009 Author Share Posted December 31, 2009 I have a different take on this. I think part of you *wants* to be obligated. Because that would mean that you had a relationship with him, a positive one. This is seemingly the last tenuous bridge to having a Dad, and you're not sure if you should/could hang on to that last line of hope. Caring for him won't make him into the Dad you've longed for and missed. You are the mother, the wife now. You have responsibilities in your own home. Talk to your dh. Both of you pray about it. Listen for the answer. And follow what you hear. So yeah. I really know what its like to wonder about obligations to someone that is a stranger with a genetic tie, and a history of hurt. It sucks. :grouphug: It does suck... feeling obligated to a complete stranger and a history of broken promises. Maybe I need to keep praying/analyzing this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heather in Neverland Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug: I have not seen or spoken to my father in over 10 years. Long story. He has made no overtures to repair the rift and neither have I but often catch myself wondering, if he died would I even go to his funeral? Should I? etc. Yours is a tough one since you are in contact with him. In your situation, I probably wouldn't get involved unless there was no other choice (like I wouldn't let him live on the street so to speak). Sharing DNA does not make you family. Help him they way you would help an acquaintance who was in the same situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted December 31, 2009 Author Share Posted December 31, 2009 This is how our culture is, and while it's not always outwardly expressed as an expectation ... it's a strong unwritten one. Some people find it easier to ignore, some of us still feel the pulls of our cultural expectations. You have worked hard all of your adult life to be the person that rises up from a difficult childhood; keep up that momentum and work forward, rather than with one eye looking back. I grew up in a culture where the primary obligation is to your elders, to your parents. It's completely different from the American standard that our first priorities should be our spouses and/or children. Your financial situation should guide financial decisions to contribute (or not) to your father's care. Outside of that, I do feel like you should help your father in every other way possible (social services, etc.) just because it's the right thing to do ... not because he lived up to his own parental role (he didn't), but because you are living up to yours (setting an example to your children). You've already done this to an extent, sharing the fortunes of your Good Days with sisters and Dad. :grouphug: YES!! When my mother was alive -- she made it very clear that we were to get successful in life and support her. In my culture (Hispanic/Latino) that is a big expectation that is not said outright. We were dirt poor. My mother would have a fit if I were to get a paycheck (as a teen) and not hand it over to her. I had to set up a secret savings account (with the help of a relative) to hide my money from her. She was notorious for spending her paycheck on the slots in Reno/Lake Tahoe. I worked many jobs since junior high -- paper routes, babysitting, pet sitting, working in a theater, tutoring, etc. I recall saving $1500 for college and the month before I was to leave for college -- she said she needed the money for a bill. I was so mad. That money would be needed for books and bedding/misc for living with my grandma. But I could not argue with her. I had to hand her the money. Which is one reason (out of many) that I turned my back to my family and decided to make it on my own and not ask them for a dime. My dad comes from this same culture. My sisters have this same mindset. Everyone owes them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex-mex Posted December 31, 2009 Author Share Posted December 31, 2009 I'm afraid of the flames that may come my way, but I'll still say it: There are two reasons for extending yourself to an unworthy relative. #1. You may be his only connection to the saving grace found in Christ. His heart was hard toward you and toward righteousness all those years ago, but he is an old man now. He is contemplating his death, and seeking some connection with his only responsible child. Your father's life on earth has been all wrong. Your life was all wrong, too, largely because of him. But you've redeemed the time! Your life on earth is good now, and you are facing eternity with Jesus. Maybe you can be the one to lead your Father to Christ, and your father's eternity can be what God would have it to be. #2. You can teach your children how to honor their parents. If you will take care of this unworthy father, how much more will your children believe that they should take care of you when you are old. These are the reasons my mother gave me for taking care of her sick and elderly (and mean) in-laws when she still had children at home. Mom's strength and love covered a multitude of sins that we were exposed to through them, and now that we children are grown, the yuck has faded away. And there was a lot of yuck. But only the love remains. On the other hand, I would absolutely NOT judge you if you sought out some ways to help that are within your means and more protecting of your family. I understand how it feels to try to break a long ugly chain of dysfunction. I, too, have had to draw a line in the sand and say, "The end. My children will have a life untainted by all this garbage." Praying for you. Thank you for these nuggets of wisdom! Hubby feels this way to my dad -- that the reason for all of this is to lead him to Christ should that opportunity arise. I agree with him. It is my flesh I struggle with with bitterness (i.e. the yuck) versus the peace/love I also feel for him (despite him being a complete stranger). Right now, I am debating if money should come our way -- we take one last trip to his home and share the gospel message with him. I won't judge him if he rejects it. I will rejoice if he accepts it. But maybe this is why I am torn about completely abandoning him? So much to pray over... :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 This is where I struggle. My flesh wants to spite him for what he did to us kids. And my heart says I need to forgive him and be the better person. Watch it. 'Being the better person' can look far too much like 'being a doormat' in practice. Consider the differences very carefully before you act on any 'Dear Dad' policy. Rosie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lori in tx Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Wow your post really struck a cord with me. My dh comes from a family of 5, and his mom was a single mom. In his family he has a brother who is a multi-millionaire with no children, another brother who just gets by (like us), another brother who owes tens of thousands in credit card debt and a twin mentally ill sister. Years ago we were asked to help support his mom, which at the time was no big deal we were in our "money years" at that time. So we gave her $200 a month along with 2 of the other siblings, and we gave the least amount, never got a thank you and heaven forbid we were late getting it to her all hell would break lose. Well those money years faded and we had to make the decision we could no longer help her out (she was getting social security, multi millionaire brother had bought her a condo, a new Lexus and paid her bills) and she actually had the guts to say "well how the heck am I suppose to go shopping, you need to go and get a job!" I was livid and so was dh, shopping for us is non-existent we go grocery shopping, our kids get hand me downs from friends of my parents and thrift store finds and the occasional gift at christmas (consignment clothes and new from my parents). And during that time she rarely saw the kids, hers and ours... she has since moved away and it has been a relief to us all our relationship is much better. don't think I helped just trying to share that the "entitlement" issue is definetly not just a cultural thing, I am not quite sure what it is with my MIL> blessings and I will pray for you Lori Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdeveson Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 Since he has never made any effort to be your father, you are under no obligation, legal or moral, to lift a finger for him. Contributing genetic material does not make one a parent. Ask any sperm donor. Look at this as a business opportunity. 1. How much cash will you inherit if you become part of his life again? 2. How much effort and time will it require on your part? 3. When you consider 1 and 2 above, is it a good deal? That's your answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdeveson Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 YES!! When my mother was alive -- she made it very clear that we were to get successful in life and support her. In my culture (Hispanic/Latino) that is a big expectation that is not said outright. I think this statement is incredibly over-broad. Perhaps where you come from people raise children to support them. I am a Hispanic/Latin and I have never been expected to support my parents. They worked hard all their lives and saved enough to retire decently and not be a burden to anyone. None of my extended family does this. None of my friends do this. No one I know is supporting their parents except one extremely rich lawyer who cannot bear to see his mother living off Social Security. In his case, it's absolutely the right thing to do, but it was not expected and certainly his mother did not require it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2cents Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 My answer: don't mess with his Karma. Your father lived his life the way he wanted with apparently no regard for how your needs were met. He needs to live with the consequences. There is no way that in addition to what is already on your plate you are expected to take care of him....uh just...no. There are services available for him to pursue. What you can do for him is to make it very clear to him that he is responsible for his own care so that he has no illusions that he can someday descend on your family and disrupt your life further. I'm a little grumpy when it comes to flakey relatives...since I have some of those too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lori in tx Posted December 31, 2009 Share Posted December 31, 2009 I'm a little grumpy when it comes to flakey relatives...since I have some of those too. I love the way you put that... my MIL told us one time that my husband's mental ill sister wanted to put me as gaurdian over her affairs because she is so mental illl (she has bipolar but choices to self medicate with any prescription meds she can find and will make up an illness to get what meds she wants)she can't make her own decisions. I told her that would be a bad idea because I have no problem putting her in a state home, I can't deal with her stupidness and her lack of being honest with her problem and taking the correct and only the correct meds. Funny thing I was not made gaurdian :lol: and neither was dh LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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