What do you think of this? Single mom soldier arrested, refuse deployment

[ChristusG]

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20091116/US.Soldier.Mom.Deployment/

 

They told her to place the baby in foster care! :crying: That poor mother must have been so torn....break the law and risk jail time or abandon her poor son.

[Plucky]

Where is the dad? I feel bad for the woman, but maybe she should have opted for a medical discharge during her pregnancy. They should just discharge her now.

[NavyWifeandMommy]

I haven't delt personally with Army but with Navy they'd wouldn't tell you to send your child into foster care. They will work with you and try to help you so you can deploy out. She should have started looking at other alternitives for her child. Since it says she skipped out on the flight she is at fault and should be charged for missing it. I cannot feel sorry for those who skip out deployments, no excusses IMO

[Plucky]

I haven't delt personally with Army but with Navy they'd wouldn't tell you to send your child into foster care. They will work with you and try to help you so you can deploy out. She should have started looking at other alternitives for her child. Since it says she skipped out on the flight she is at fault and should be charged for missing it. I cannot feel sorry for those who skip out deployments, no excusses IMO

 

You don't think they should just discharge her and send her on her way? She could have made other choices that is true. I'm not sure it's worth prosecution.

[ConnieB]

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-national/20091116/US.Soldier.Mom.Deployment/

 

They told her to place the baby in foster care! :crying: That poor mother must have been so torn....break the law and risk jail time or abandon her poor son.

 

 

There is more to this story that we're not being told. As a military family I can tell you that this does not happen as reported. As it said in the article, single parents are required to have a care plan (actually, all parents have to have a care plan.....dual military parents often have the same dilemma when both are deployable). That said, however, if the plan falls through whether before or during deployment, they would NEVER tell a parent to put their kid in foster care. That's very against all military philosphy that I've encountered in 20+ years as a military wife, on many different bases, and two different branches (Army and Air Force).

 

Obviously I know nothing about this this soldier, but I can say that there are a lot of soliders that join for the benefits, especially education, and then when they are called upon to deploy as they promised they balk at the idea of being in harms way. It seems odd to me that this Grandmother is capable of caring for "up to 14 children" at a time in her day care, but will not keep her own flesh and blood. Perhaps she should turn away a couple of the day care children to make room/time to care for her own grandchild. Unless of course, they figured out that if baby has no where to go then Mom won't have to go either. The timing is interesting to say the least.

 

They also don't throw a parent in jail for failure to have a working plan.....there are consequences, but jail isn't one of them that I've ever heard. Her commanding officer would put the screws to her to deal with the problem.....I've seen where a solider is assigned a desk and a phone so that they can focus on resolving the problem without other things interrupting.

 

If I had to guess, I'd say that they already told the commander that she intended to not deploy because of the child....and the commander gave her orders (and the resources/time needed) to come up with an alternate plan. The only way I can imagine them jailing her is if the commander became aware that she was purposely defying his order, in other words the jail time is NOT about the lack of child care.

 

And think about this....if they put her in jail, or court martial her and she then has to spend a year (or whatever) in jail, who's going to care for the baby then? Gee, civilian prisioners that can't find someone to take the child end up having Social Services take the child and place them in foster care. Would Grandma suddenly step up then??

 

If she's not deployable because the child has no where to go they can separate her from the military......it's usually a dishonorable discharge which means she loses any benefits (though she hasn't been in long enough to really have any except "veteran" status). Of course that may be what they are bucking for anyway.

 

If this story continues in the public eye, mark my words, there is more to it than we're getting right now. My scenarios may not be accurate, as there are a million alternatives of course, but there is more to this than jailing a solider for not having child care.

[LibraryLover]

Something is not right here. I refuse to be pulled into Balloon Boy worry without more info.

[dragons in the flower bed]

Maybe she was just overwhelmed and didn't know what to do. So often people don't realize that asking for help will get them some, or that saying, "I don't know what to do," will result in having some new what-to-do options explained to them. Anyway, I imagine that in the days before deployment even a person with good intentions might not be thinking straight.

[Mrs Mungo]

There is more to this story that we're not being told. As a military family I can tell you that this does not happen as reported.

 

I agree with this.

 

Not having a childcare plan doesn't result in jail time. Missing movement (not showing up for her deployment) certainly can.

[nukeswife]

You don't think they should just discharge her and send her on her way? She could have made other choices that is true. I'm not sure it's worth prosecution.

 

I'll probably sound pretty harsh here, but no I don't think they should just discharge her and let her go her merry way. She's been in for a couple years now, she knew she needed a care plan, yes her mother was it and changed her mind last minute, but as a single parent she should know to have a back up plan.

 

Yes she probably should have thought about this a lot more but she also needs to face the consequences for her actions.

[Mrs Mungo]

I'll probably sound pretty harsh here, but no I don't think they should just discharge her and let her go her merry way. She's been in for a couple years now, she knew she needed a care plan, yes her mother was it and changed her mind last minute, but as a single parent she should know to have a back up plan.

 

Yes she probably should have thought about this a lot more but she also needs to face the consequences for her actions.

 

And the action is not showing up for her deployment. She didn't go talk to her immediate supervisor, the First Sergeant, her commander or anyone in her chain of command. She just didn't show up. That's totally unacceptable. My hubby is in the midst of punishing a guy who did something similar in the midst of a personal crisis, partly involving his kid. Why should she receive different treatment? Because she's a woman?

[nukeswife]

And the action is not showing up for her deployment. She didn't go talk to her immediate supervisor, the First Sergeant, her commander or anyone in her chain of command. She just didn't show up. That's totally unacceptable. My hubby is in the midst of punishing a guy who did something similar in the midst of a personal crisis, partly involving his kid. Why should she receive different treatment? Because she's a woman?

 

:iagree:

My husband has had to deal with many a sailor doing similar things. They know how things work, they know the rules and the consequences for breaking those rules. So if they choose to break them and not showing up for deployment is s biggie, then they have to pay the piper.

[nukeswife]

Harsh. Really.

 

Obviously we don't know all of the details, but I can totally see plans falling through.

 

Yes it is harsh, and details or not, plans falling through is not an acceptable excuse for not showing up for deployment.

[Tap]

I know nothing about any form of military, so I am not commenting on the OP. I am just asking a question out of curiosity.

 

 

Several people have said that not having a multilayer backup plan, isn't an excuse and not showing up, isn't acceptable. Okay I see that, but what would someone do if they were told to deploy and their only options had fallen through. Either by action or inaction. What would they do? Show up to deploy with a child on their hip, with a mini duffel bag?

[ekarl2]

I know nothing about any form of military, so I am not commenting on the OP. I am just asking a question out of curiosity.

 

 

Several people have said that not having a multilayer backup plan, isn't an excuse and not showing up, isn't acceptable. Okay I see that, but what would someone do if they were told to deploy and their only options had fallen through. Either by action or inaction. What would they do? Show up to deploy with a child on their hip, with a mini duffel bag?

 

They go to their shirt (first sergeant) or commander and ask for help! Keep in mind that the VAST majority of us are told about deployments at least a month or two in advance, sometimes more. I had a tech sergeant who ended up having a good friend care for her two teenage sons for 6 months. It's a little hard for civilians to grasp just how close military people are to each other. You commander or shirt would do everything possible to help you find suitable care for your children or try to at least change your deployement bucket to give you more time to find someone.

[ChristusG]

I dont know anything about military rules and stuff like that either. I just posted the story because IF the story is really true and there is nothing hidden, then I feel really sorry for the mother.

[Brilliant]

...but what would someone do if they were told to deploy and their only options had fallen through. Either by action or inaction. What would they do? Show up to deploy with a child on their hip, with a mini duffel bag?

 

As a woman, with children...

 

I would never be in the military. *Especially* if I were a single mother.

 

Military service is incompatible with single-custodial-parenthood.

 

When my dad was stationed overseas, there was an incident that led everyone to believe all dependents needed to leave the country immediately. My mom, sis, and I got ready. A young single female sailor with a toddler was going to have to send her child state-side with another mom. She flipped out and made a hysterical scene at the mere thought of not being able to leave with her child.

 

Lucky for all of us, the incident blew over and we didn't have to leave. It was 25 years ago but I still remember that sailor's reaction - she was far more worried about her child leaving, than she was about her military job. I will say it again: Military service is incompatible with single-custodial-parenthood.

[Julie in CA]

As a mother, I would do anything to *not* leave my baby.

-but then again, I would not have a baby while I was a single and in the military. In my opinion (and I'm really trying not to offend anyone here), she took the benefits of being in the military, and then when it was time to fulfill one of the hard parts of the obligation, she backed out of her part of the agreement. I'd like her to either fulfill her part of the agreement, or return the money that she was given for her participation in the military. No hard feelings, she should do what she needs to do for her baby--but she shouldn't have taken the pay if she wasn't willing to do the job she was hired to do (including the possibility of deployment). Either way, I sure do wish that baby had more of a support system than just a single mom and an overly-busy grandma. How sad. :sad:

[Sputterduck]

Yes it is harsh, and details or not, plans falling through is not an acceptable excuse for not showing up for deployment.

 

So if plans fall through, a person should do what with their baby? Leave it in it's crib for a year and come back to no baby? Give the baby up for adoption? What? I have been in a situation where I had a small child, was very alone, and literally had no one, family or not family, who I would leave my baby with. What is a person in that situation to do?

Edited November 17, 2009 by Sputterduck

[Julie in CA]

You don't think they should just discharge her and send her on her way? She could have made other choices that is true. I'm not sure it's worth prosecution.

I don't know what the solution is, but somehow that doesn't seem fair to the many *many* who have left their babies home in order to fulfill their obligation, for her to be let off without consequence(?).

[Plucky]

I don't know what the solution is, but somehow that doesn't seem fair to the many *many* who have left their babies home in order to fulfill their obligation, for her to be let off without consequence(?).

 

No, it's not fair. I made the choice to leave the military when I became pregnant. I knew I wouldn't be able to serve and be a mom at the same time. This woman should have as well.

 

I'm not sure that prosecution for avoiding deployment is ever meted out fairly. There is an officer in my state that refused to deploy and was let clean off the hook. Why was he let go to go one his merry way? What is fair? I don't think there is such a thing.

[Plucky]

I just wanted to add that I really don't have a dog in this fight. I'm just musing. I suspect the soldier wants out of the military now anyway. The grandma came and picked up the baby. A lot of this doesn't make sense. I don't have a problem with single parents getting discharged. They frequently are just not able to serve our country freely.

[Jean in Newcastle]

In this case, I feel like Grandma is culpable too though I know it could never be enforced - for very good reasons.

[Plucky]

In this case, I feel like Grandma is culpable too though I know it could never be enforced - for very good reasons.

 

But you can't make someone take care of a baby. Really, the mom just should have requested a discharge during pregnancy.

[Jean in Newcastle]

But you can't make someone take care of a baby. Really, the mom just should have requested a discharge during pregnancy.

 

Oh I know! I just have a feeling like in this case that mom and grandma got together and said, "If you say you won't take the baby, then I won't have to go." So in that way she contributed to the mess that the mom is in. That's all.

[Plucky]

Oh I know! I just have a feeling like in this case that mom and grandma got together and said, "If you say you won't take the baby, then I won't have to go." So in that way she contributed to the mess that the mom is in. That's all.

 

I think you're right. That is probably what happened.

[missmoe]

The first thing I thought of was the baby will now end up in foster care if the mom goes to jail. She really didn't think things through, did she? We are a former military family and I really don't feel any pity for her. She knew when entering the military that she would most likely be deployed. I'm sure that she even witnessed others in her same situation prior to being in this situation.

[Guest Alte Veste Academy]

She just didn't show up. That's totally unacceptable.

 

:iagree: And she knew it.

 

I dont know anything about military rules and stuff like that either. I just posted the story because IF the story is really true and there is nothing hidden, then I feel really sorry for the mother.

 

And :grouphug:, because it was a natural response to feel sympathetic but everyone is right in that there is more to the story. The military just doesn't tell people to put their kids in foster care for deployments. I have no sympathy for her as a rule-breaker and shirker of her duty.

 

I do have sympathy for all the thousands of mothers and fathers, including my own DH, who have endured some of the most incredible emotional pain imaginable as they force themselves to put one foot in front of the other to walk away from their children on deployment day. Speaking for my husband, the hardest part of deployments isn't the living conditions, the 16 hour days on end without a break, or even being in harm's way. The hardest part is those first steps, walking away from our precious children.

 

So, while I don't have sympathy for her as a rule-breaker, there is some left in my heart for a woman who, perhaps, thought she had the strength to walk away and, in the end, did not. She must accept her punishment and hopefully her poor choice will serve as a warning to others who would probably be better off out of the military.

Edited November 17, 2009 by Alte Veste Academy

[nukeswife]

So if plans fall through, a person should do what with their baby? Leave it in it's crib for a year and come back to no baby? Give the baby up for adoption? What? I have been in a situation where I had a small child, was very alone, and literally had no one, family or not family, who I would leave my baby with. What is a person in that situation to do?

 

There were channels she needed to go through in her situation, you can't just not show up, that's not how it works. She joined in 2007, it's now 2009, her baby was 10 months old according to the report. She knew the way things worked before she had the child, she knew what her responsibility was before she had the child. I know many will see my opinion as mean and cruel. I wish the child no ill, but there are rules when you join the military, it's sometimes hard for those not in that position to understand them.

[Danestress]

Military service is incompatible with single-custodial-parenthood.

 

 

 

It's hard, but it's not really incompatible. My DH was widowed active duty and served well and honorably for 3 1/2 years single. He actually served 22, but he was only a single parents for that era. It wasn't easy. He had some bad moments, and he had times when people had to cut him a little slack, especially right after his wife died. But he did it, and he did it well.

 

If she can't come up with a good care plan for this child then she needs to seek a separation. Actually *she* needs to get out anyway because she has already let down her command and ruined her own career. But for other single parents, I really think it's their choice whether to serve. My husband did as good a job during that period as any other Marine out there, and I think he deserved the right to make that choice, which was the right choice for him and an honorable choice and one that his country benefited from. He did have parent he could rely on, and did rely on.

[LibraryLover]

Wow. This post really touched me. Thank you.

 

:iagree: And she knew it.

 

 

 

And :grouphug:, because it was a natural response to feel sympathetic but everyone is right in that there is more to the story. The military just doesn't tell people to put their kids in foster care for deployments. I have no sympathy for her as a rule-breaker and shirker of her duty.

 

I do have sympathy for all the thousands of mothers and fathers, including my own DH, who have endured some of the most incredible emotional pain imaginable as they force themselves to put one foot in front of the other to walk away from their children on deployment day. Speaking for my husband, the hardest part of deployments isn't the living conditions, the 16 hour days on end without a break, or even being in harm's way). The hardest part is those first steps, walking away from our precious children.

 

So, while I don't have sympathy for her as a rule-breaker, there is some left in my heart for a woman who, perhaps, thought she had the strength to walk away and, in the end, did not. She must accept her punishment and hopefully her poor choice will serve as a warning to others who would probably be better off out of the military.

[Audrey]

Something is not right here. I refuse to be pulled into Balloon Boy worry without more info.

 

 

:iagree:

[Cammie]

I think you're right. That is probably what happened.

 

 

Funny, I thought just the opposite. It sounded to me like mom had tried to get everything all sorted out. She had a plan in place. She was continuing to do her duty. Then, out of the blue, grandma balks and says she can't do it. What is mom supposed to do at that point? She has no one else, her own mother is not able to help her out. She must have been scared and totally without a plan. I hope it all works out for her and the baby.

[TammyinTN]

:iagree: And she knew it.

 

 

 

And :grouphug:, because it was a natural response to feel sympathetic but everyone is right in that there is more to the story. The military just doesn't tell people to put their kids in foster care for deployments. I have no sympathy for her as a rule-breaker and shirker of her duty.

 

I do have sympathy for all the thousands of mothers and fathers, including my own DH, who have endured some of the most incredible emotional pain imaginable as they force themselves to put one foot in front of the other to walk away from their children on deployment day. Speaking for my husband, the hardest part of deployments isn't the living conditions, the 16 hour days on end without a break, or even being in harm's way). The hardest part is those first steps, walking away from our precious children.

 

So, while I don't have sympathy for her as a rule-breaker, there is some left in my heart for a woman who, perhaps, thought she had the strength to walk away and, in the end, did not. She must accept her punishment and hopefully her poor choice will serve as a warning to others who would probably be better off out of the military.

 

Exactly how I felt!:iagree:

[DawnL]

I agree, we don't know the whole story. My dd's bmom was in the Air Force. She intended to retire (didn't quite make it) and was required to do a year overseas. It was at that time she became unexpectedly pregnant with my dd. She was able to work it out with the Air Force, stay in Texas for an additional year, and she placed her dd with us. (permanently, we adopted our dd from birth). After dd was born, within 3 months or so, S was deployed overseas for a year. (Then Hawaii for a couple years. Definitely worth it!!)

 

So, S may have been Air Force, but she had lots of choices, and utilized every one. If she hadn't placed our dd with us, and chose to parent, she would have had to either make alternative care plans for her for a year, or take an early discharge. Just deciding to not show up isn't an option. There are enough reasonable options to avoid a no-show!

[ThatCyndiGirl]

I dont know anything about military rules and stuff like that either. I just posted the story because IF the story is really true and there is nothing hidden, then I feel really sorry for the mother.

 

 

I don't feel sorry for her at all. Harsh? Not at all. This is what she signed up for. I realize that she likely wasn't a mom when she joined, but it is part of the agreement-that when you have a child you have a plan for your deployment.

 

I REALLY hate it when people "feel sorry for a mom who is deploying". It is no different than if a man is deploying and it sets the Women's Movement back to suggest that moms are more valuable than dads. ETA: Hate it when people seem to have more sympathy for deploying mothers than deploying fathers.

 

She clearly disobeyed a lawful order and should be punished. I agree that there is more to this story!

 

It seems to be implied, for example, that she never talked to her first shirt about this and chose to simply not show up for the flight.

 

Sounds like a courts-martial to me.

Edited November 17, 2009 by ThatCyndiGirl

[katilac]

I REALLY hate it when people "feel sorry for a mom who is deploying". It is no different than if a man is deploying and it sets the Women's Movement back to suggest that moms are more valuable than dads. ETA: Hate it when people seem to have more sympathy for deploying mothers than deploying fathers.

 

:iagree:

[May]

My husband is an active duty navy chaplain. Unfortunately, he has seen way to much of this. On his last deployment, single women became pregnant and then needed to be flown back stateside. Also, women becoming pregnant a month or two before the scheduled deployment. Someone else then has to go. Maybe another single parent, who does their duty, maybe a young man whose wife just had a baby. You get the picture. The young lady should be given an other than honorable discharged as soon as the military punishes her as they see fit.

[NavyWifeandMommy]

Just so you know unless they changed it in the last twelve years, you cannot just say hey I want out of the military because I am going to have a baby. I was a single mother for a short time in the military but I did my time and got out. Thankfully I didn't have back up issues because the father was involved (we are married now)

[ConnieB]

Actually her arrest wasn't anything to do with the child....it was for failing to show up at her deployment. Failure to obey orders, abandonment, even AWOL (Absent without leave). Not sure what the exact charges are or will be, but those are all possibilities.

 

And yes, she should have just shown up with the baby on her hip, but without need for the mini duffel bag because they would not have deployed her. But failure to show up wasn't an option. That's akin to saying I didn't file my income tax because I didn't have the money to pay....ummm, no, that's not how you do it. Or even, I didn't pay my taxes because I don't agree with our tax system.....nope, not ok, and not gonna get you much sympathy from those of us struggling to pay our taxes. Just like it's drilled into us from our very first job that you pay your taxes it's drilled into soliders with children that you have a plan and a back up.

 

So, no, it's also not a case of she didn't know the rules or didn't know what to do. As soon as she told her command she was pregnant she would have then been counseled not once, but repeatedly about her duties and obligations as concerned the child (at each dr appt too). All the parents, even those with a non-military stay at home parent, are under a different radar. There is a whole department that's sole purpose is to take care of being sure that soliders have workable plans. Plus the FRG (Family Readiness Group) who are the on base family members. Because she was a single mom, her radar was even more intense....even if she had plans that were more solid, they check in on you more as a single parent because of the difference....another group singled out is where both parents are military. But even families like mine are contacted by FRG every time deployment is ordered. I've been both-one of those doing the contact, and one being contacted over the years. The procedure has been the same for our 20+ years, every member is contacted to be sure that they have what they need to deploy with as little trouble as possible. Even the no-children members have a check box. No one wants a solider deployed with worries about home on their mind....not only for that solider, but to be blunt, for safety of those in their unit. You don't want a solider's mind on home when you're in battle. Obviously not every worry can be eliminated, but the deployed soliders know that they have military-family watching their backs at home. That is so vitally important, something that is probably impossible for a non-military to understand, how seriously it's taken. Had this solider's Mom decided AFTER deployment that she couldn't handle the child, the military wouldn't have just said "too bad, it's your problem". Just like before deployment, afterwards, they would work to find a resolution, and sometimes that does mean bringing a solider home when a solution doesn't happen. They obviously try to avoid that, but it happens, not just for child care either. You really and honestly have to be in the military to totally understand the scope of heart that the military does have. It has a mission, and that is a priority but not to the complete detriment of the family.

 

As part of the readiness physical she would have again been counseled about her plan. Had she said "oh it's no problem, Grandma's got it covered", she STILL would have been counseled about what to do if Grandma falls through, and what to do if her backup plan falls through. This constant drill is to keep command in the loop. This happens EVERY deployment, even for the soliders who are old hands at deployment. My DH obviously has a very secure plan, ME......but despite that he still has to answer it each time. For his entire career there has been ME as the first step plan. We also have a backup plan ...never had to use it but it was a serious, in writing, signed by both parents AND the adults that would take over if needed, plan.

 

How many non-military families have a plan if the stay at home parent gets long term ill or even dies and the working parent has to continue to work? Not many, I'll venture....as it's a remote possibility and if you've even given it any thought (which most never have) you probably just figure you'll cross that bridge when it happens, or you figure family will step in, even if you've not discussed it with them. That's not acceptable in the military, even for families like me who know the drill, have lived the drill for decades, and have never for a moment needed those back up plans....but every deployment you have to provide your plan.

 

So she would have known that showing up with the kid that she'd have been pulled aside and not sent. Of course, she should have brought these problems to her command before it got to that point, but if the plans fell through the morning of deployment, she'd have known the procedure, but either way it's a written procedure that the military follows. It's not a make-it-up-as-it-happens or open to discussion and debate by her command. It's so structured in the military that it's not even a case of "gee, what if her command was a single, no kids, don't think parents/woman should be in the military hard-butt type".....command can feel that way personally, but if THEY fail to follow procedure THEY are the ones to suffer, so believe me, they follow (as these types tend to be career military and bite their tongues off for their career). Feelings like that aren't easy to hide and in such a close knit, structured environment, such a person would not be in the job having to do with deployment and plans. So it's not a case of her fearing command would take the kid....there is NO precedent for that in the entire course of military history. Had she shown up with the kid they'd have pulled her, and then they would have worked one-on-one with her to forumlate a plan. Worst case if no plan could be found, she'd be discharged....ending her career, and yes, it wouldn't be an easy "oh well you don't have to go then", the pressure to find a plan isn't fun, I've watched others go through it, but it's not unlike other jobs where if you don't do your job we're going to make make it unpleasant or you're going to leave. But the folks who handle this are NOT the "hate women in the military" types...they are specially trained and handle this constantly. That first deployment is of course the hardest. Some soliders think they can handle it but then can't.....it's not just the single moms either. I've seen some pretty rough and ready men who are jazzed about going, only to have reality hit them the day before (or a few even on the tarmac).....and they crumble. They're pulled and a lot of counseling happens to help them fulfill their duty....and most are later able to rejoin their units.

 

For those non-military who think is all very harsh...it is, without a doubt. Being asked to leave your family and go off and put yourself in harm's way (plus all the other horribleness of deployment) is harsh. My DH loves his job, he's proud of being a solider, and despite the hardships he has never, not once, said "I don't want to go". He'll talk about how he hates to go, hates to leave us, hates to see me worry so much, but never has he entertained the idea of not going. It's his job. Just like I as a mother would never entertain the idea of just giving up my job of taking care of my wonderful, frustrating, adorable, irritating, only partly well behaved children. Ok some days I may fantisize that they are all replaced by Stepford like aliens, but that's not the same is it? But I would never consider walking away. We've had threads on mom who do, they're seldom sympathic.

 

I think you're going to find it hard to find any sympathy from a military family for her situation.....yes we're very sympathetic to her plight, to how hard it is to leave your family, whether it's your first or tenth deployment. But to simply not show up. Nope. No sympathy. Think about what would happen if every solider who'd rather not go to Iraq just didn't show up. Unfortunately it would NOT end the war over there......if it would I'd be all for it. But it would make our casualties even worse. The military has a job to do, a mission, and while some of us wish for it not to have such a mission, (yep, even military spouses don't like the war....but I totally support my troops!) our men and women of the military MUST do their duty.....for the others in the unit, for themselves. Failure is not an option. Obviously military life is not a good place for someone who can't come to accept it's terms.

 

My opinion....she needs to be punished for going AWOL. The child care thing is not, and never was/will be a reason for punishment. But failure to show up is. I do think, however, that if it was planned, her plan will back firing on her....I think there is a distinct probablity that she knew what would happen and was banking on a hardship discharge.....just like many before have gotten....but the difference is that this is turning into a media circus. And that means her fate is not going to be as easily decided. The military doesn't like bad PR but they also have to make sure that whatever they do doesn't make other soliders decide to copy-cat her actions. The hardship discharges are almost never in the media...but they happen pretty often. And one has to wonder how the media even got the story.

[TravelingChris]

I am another military wife who agrees with all the other military wives or former military commenting here. The main job of the FIrst Shirt is to take care of the problems of the enlisted ranks underneath him or her. He picks up people from the jail, he cajoles others about their finances, he helps tropps who are sick or need childcare, etc, etc. SHe was deploying with a unit. THat means it was an orgnaized deployment and they had plenty of help available. I have seen people deployed singly and that can be a bit challenging. But this was not the case and she simply didn't follow the rules.

[ekarl2]

Just so you know unless they changed it in the last twelve years, you cannot just say hey I want out of the military because I am going to have a baby. I was a single mother for a short time in the military but I did my time and got out. Thankfully I didn't have back up issues because the father was involved (we are married now)

In the Air Force you can request separation when you get preggers. They don't have to approve it, but you can request it. It's normally approved, unless you are a high-need specialty or they've paid a ton of money for your education. There was a helo pilot a few years ago who was an academy grad. The Air Force was into her for about $500k (academy ed, undergrad pilot training, helo training). She got pregnant and asked to get out 6 months into her commitment. They said no. It's a high-need and they'd paid a BUNCH of money to train her. She sued and lost. As a 10-year veteran, I agree with that.

[ChristusG]

 

I REALLY hate it when people "feel sorry for a mom who is deploying". It is no different than if a man is deploying and it sets the Women's Movement back to suggest that moms are more valuable than dads. ETA: Hate it when people seem to have more sympathy for deploying mothers than deploying fathers.

 

 

No one said anything about not feeling sorry for a father deploying. Actually, if this story were about a single father whose plans allegedly fell through, I'd feel the exact same way.

 

But anyways, I know that I do have a much harder time leaving our children than my husband does. My husband can walk out the door on a business trip without hesitation. I would probably cry the entire time I was gone.

Edited November 17, 2009 by ChristusG
fixed typo

[Remudamom]

Well, I'm a hard core non feminist. I don't have a problem believing that men and women are equal in different ways. I don't think women have any business in the military. I think it's indicative of what's wrong with the US. If she signed up she shouldn't have gotten pregnant. Personally I don't think she should ever have been allowed to sign up.

 

It's a shame that someone will have to replace her. To me it's a shame that any of our young men and women are over there having to give their lives. I get sick anytime I hear about one of our soldiers being killed. I have great respect, especially for the parents of these children. (and that's what it always seems to be, children)

 

Go ahead and blast away. I think women ought to be women and not warriors. And I pray that our sons won't have to be sacrificed either.

 

ETA- I think it's just as horrible when a father is deployed. Moms are not more important, but as far as I'm concerned they just have different jobs. One job is not more important that the other, but they are different.

Edited November 17, 2009 by Remudamom

[nukeswife]

Actually her arrest wasn't anything to do with the child....it was for failing to show up at her deployment. Failure to obey orders, abandonment, even AWOL (Absent without leave). Not sure what the exact charges are or will be, but those are all possibilities.

 

And yes, she should have just shown up with the baby on her hip, but without need for the mini duffel bag because they would not have deployed her. But failure to show up wasn't an option. That's akin to saying I didn't file my income tax because I didn't have the money to pay....ummm, no, that's not how you do it. Or even, I didn't pay my taxes because I don't agree with our tax system.....nope, not ok, and not gonna get you much sympathy from those of us struggling to pay our taxes. Just like it's drilled into us from our very first job that you pay your taxes it's drilled into soliders with children that you have a plan and a back up.

 

So, no, it's also not a case of she didn't know the rules or didn't know what to do. As soon as she told her command she was pregnant she would have then been counseled not once, but repeatedly about her duties and obligations as concerned the child (at each dr appt too). All the parents, even those with a non-military stay at home parent, are under a different radar. There is a whole department that's sole purpose is to take care of being sure that soliders have workable plans. Plus the FRG (Family Readiness Group) who are the on base family members. Because she was a single mom, her radar was even more intense....even if she had plans that were more solid, they check in on you more as a single parent because of the difference....another group singled out is where both parents are military. But even families like mine are contacted by FRG every time deployment is ordered. I've been both-one of those doing the contact, and one being contacted over the years. The procedure has been the same for our 20+ years, every member is contacted to be sure that they have what they need to deploy with as little trouble as possible. Even the no-children members have a check box. No one wants a solider deployed with worries about home on their mind....not only for that solider, but to be blunt, for safety of those in their unit. You don't want a solider's mind on home when you're in battle. Obviously not every worry can be eliminated, but the deployed soliders know that they have military-family watching their backs at home. That is so vitally important, something that is probably impossible for a non-military to understand, how seriously it's taken. Had this solider's Mom decided AFTER deployment that she couldn't handle the child, the military wouldn't have just said "too bad, it's your problem". Just like before deployment, afterwards, they would work to find a resolution, and sometimes that does mean bringing a solider home when a solution doesn't happen. They obviously try to avoid that, but it happens, not just for child care either. You really and honestly have to be in the military to totally understand the scope of heart that the military does have. It has a mission, and that is a priority but not to the complete detriment of the family.

 

As part of the readiness physical she would have again been counseled about her plan. Had she said "oh it's no problem, Grandma's got it covered", she STILL would have been counseled about what to do if Grandma falls through, and what to do if her backup plan falls through. This constant drill is to keep command in the loop. This happens EVERY deployment, even for the soliders who are old hands at deployment. My DH obviously has a very secure plan, ME......but despite that he still has to answer it each time. For his entire career there has been ME as the first step plan. We also have a backup plan ...never had to use it but it was a serious, in writing, signed by both parents AND the adults that would take over if needed, plan.

 

How many non-military families have a plan if the stay at home parent gets long term ill or even dies and the working parent has to continue to work? Not many, I'll venture....as it's a remote possibility and if you've even given it any thought (which most never have) you probably just figure you'll cross that bridge when it happens, or you figure family will step in, even if you've not discussed it with them. That's not acceptable in the military, even for families like me who know the drill, have lived the drill for decades, and have never for a moment needed those back up plans....but every deployment you have to provide your plan.

 

So she would have known that showing up with the kid that she'd have been pulled aside and not sent. Of course, she should have brought these problems to her command before it got to that point, but if the plans fell through the morning of deployment, she'd have known the procedure, but either way it's a written procedure that the military follows. It's not a make-it-up-as-it-happens or open to discussion and debate by her command. It's so structured in the military that it's not even a case of "gee, what if her command was a single, no kids, don't think parents/woman should be in the military hard-butt type".....command can feel that way personally, but if THEY fail to follow procedure THEY are the ones to suffer, so believe me, they follow (as these types tend to be career military and bite their tongues off for their career). Feelings like that aren't easy to hide and in such a close knit, structured environment, such a person would not be in the job having to do with deployment and plans. So it's not a case of her fearing command would take the kid....there is NO precedent for that in the entire course of military history. Had she shown up with the kid they'd have pulled her, and then they would have worked one-on-one with her to forumlate a plan. Worst case if no plan could be found, she'd be discharged....ending her career, and yes, it wouldn't be an easy "oh well you don't have to go then", the pressure to find a plan isn't fun, I've watched others go through it, but it's not unlike other jobs where if you don't do your job we're going to make make it unpleasant or you're going to leave. But the folks who handle this are NOT the "hate women in the military" types...they are specially trained and handle this constantly. That first deployment is of course the hardest. Some soliders think they can handle it but then can't.....it's not just the single moms either. I've seen some pretty rough and ready men who are jazzed about going, only to have reality hit them the day before (or a few even on the tarmac).....and they crumble. They're pulled and a lot of counseling happens to help them fulfill their duty....and most are later able to rejoin their units.

 

For those non-military who think is all very harsh...it is, without a doubt. Being asked to leave your family and go off and put yourself in harm's way (plus all the other horribleness of deployment) is harsh. My DH loves his job, he's proud of being a solider, and despite the hardships he has never, not once, said "I don't want to go". He'll talk about how he hates to go, hates to leave us, hates to see me worry so much, but never has he entertained the idea of not going. It's his job. Just like I as a mother would never entertain the idea of just giving up my job of taking care of my wonderful, frustrating, adorable, irritating, only partly well behaved children. Ok some days I may fantisize that they are all replaced by Stepford like aliens, but that's not the same is it? But I would never consider walking away. We've had threads on mom who do, they're seldom sympathic.

 

I think you're going to find it hard to find any sympathy from a military family for her situation.....yes we're very sympathetic to her plight, to how hard it is to leave your family, whether it's your first or tenth deployment. But to simply not show up. Nope. No sympathy. Think about what would happen if every solider who'd rather not go to Iraq just didn't show up. Unfortunately it would NOT end the war over there......if it would I'd be all for it. But it would make our casualties even worse. The military has a job to do, a mission, and while some of us wish for it not to have such a mission, (yep, even military spouses don't like the war....but I totally support my troops!) our men and women of the military MUST do their duty.....for the others in the unit, for themselves. Failure is not an option. Obviously military life is not a good place for someone who can't come to accept it's terms.

 

My opinion....she needs to be punished for going AWOL. The child care thing is not, and never was/will be a reason for punishment. But failure to show up is. I do think, however, that if it was planned, her plan will back firing on her....I think there is a distinct probablity that she knew what would happen and was banking on a hardship discharge.....just like many before have gotten....but the difference is that this is turning into a media circus. And that means her fate is not going to be as easily decided. The military doesn't like bad PR but they also have to make sure that whatever they do doesn't make other soliders decide to copy-cat her actions. The hardship discharges are almost never in the media...but they happen pretty often. And one has to wonder how the media even got the story.

 

:iagree: You said what I've been trying to say all night, but couldn't find the words for.

[Dawn in OH]

I feel bad for the mother/soldier, it's a crummy situation. However, from the sounds of things, there were steps she could have taken that would have had a better outcome for her. Seems like she dropped the ball and screwed up.

 

As a Mom, I would never have allowed myself to be in that situation. I will not be separated from my children.

 

I think it's a very bad plan for a single mother to chose the military as a career.

[unsinkable]

Something is not right here. I refuse to be pulled into Balloon Boy worry without more info.

 

:lol:

[GWOB]

I haven't delt personally with Army but with Navy they'd wouldn't tell you to send your child into foster care. They will work with you and try to help you so you can deploy out. She should have started looking at other alternitives for her child. Since it says she skipped out on the flight she is at fault and should be charged for missing it. I cannot feel sorry for those who skip out deployments, no excusses IMO

 

Not exactly true. My Master Chief told me to leave my daughter with a babysitter for six months while DH and I were to be deployed. My XO told me to just find some daycare. The Navy absolutely refused to work with me, so I got out. I feel this mother's pain. The military definitely discriminates against active-duty moms. It is quite disgusting actually.

[ConnieB]

I feel bad for the mother/soldier, it's a crummy situation. However, from the sounds of things, there were steps she could have taken that would have had a better outcome for her. Seems like she dropped the ball and screwed up.

 

As a Mom, I would never have allowed myself to be in that situation. I will not be separated from my children.

 

I think it's a very bad plan for a single mother to chose the military as a career.

 

Just to keep the facts straight....according to the articles I've read.....her baby was conceived AFTER she was already enlisted and serving. So she did not choose military as a single mother, but became a single mother after joining. A significant difference in a discussion about putting herself into this situation. However once the baby became an issue there were many ways to mitigate the situation, but so far I haven't seen that she has requested any of them (discharge, a change in field to a non-deployable one, etc). So far the only thing I've seen about the father is that they are no longer in a relationship.....not clear if he's military or not, interested in taking responsibility of his child, or even if he is aware of the child.

[GWOB]

In this case, I feel like Grandma is culpable too though I know it could never be enforced - for very good reasons.

 

Sure, but what about the father of the child? The military often overlooks the father's responsibility in these cases.

[Remudamom]

Just to keep the facts straight....according to the articles I've read.....her baby was conceived AFTER she was already enlisted and serving. So she did not choose military as a single mother, but became a single mother after joining. A significant difference in a discussion about putting herself into this situation. However once the baby became an issue there were many ways to mitigate the situation, but so far I haven't seen that she has requested any of them (discharge, a change in field to a non-deployable one, etc). So far the only thing I've seen about the father is that they are no longer in a relationship.....not clear if he's military or not, interested in taking responsibility of his child, or even if he is aware of the child.

 

No, she still put herself in this situation. She got pregnant. And in only rare cases nowadays do women accidentally get pregnant. Yes, I know it happens.

 

I saw a pic of her on the internet, and she gives me an ick feeling. I don't feel bad for her, I do feel bad for the baby. Anyone who poses for sympathy pics like that just isn't on the up and up.