What do you think of this? Single mom soldier arrested, refuse deployment

[Mrs Mungo]

So if plans fall through, a person should do what with their baby? Leave it in it's crib for a year and come back to no baby? Give the baby up for adoption? What? I have been in a situation where I had a small child, was very alone, and literally had no one, family or not family, who I would leave my baby with. What is a person in that situation to do?

 

Not have a baby in the military. It's not fair to expect someone else to go in your place. If you're in the military then you need to take your turn deploying, just like everyone else. It's about choices. If her family care plan fell through then she immediately should have talked to her First Sergeant.

 

There were channels she needed to go through in her situation, you can't just not show up, that's not how it works. She joined in 2007, it's now 2009, her baby was 10 months old according to the report. She knew the way things worked before she had the child, she knew what her responsibility was before she had the child. I know many will see my opinion as mean and cruel. I wish the child no ill, but there are rules when you join the military, it's sometimes hard for those not in that position to understand them.

 

I agree.

 

It's hard, but it's not really incompatible. My DH was widowed active duty and served well and honorably for 3 1/2 years single. He actually served 22, but he was only a single parents for that era. It wasn't easy. He had some bad moments, and he had times when people had to cut him a little slack, especially right after his wife died. But he did it, and he did it well.

 

If she can't come up with a good care plan for this child then she needs to seek a separation.

 

I will agree with this. We have dual military friends who deployed at the same time, her parents came and stayed with their toddler twins. We know a guy whose wife left him a few years ago and wanted nothing more to do with their kids. His parents come and stay with his boys when he's gone. It can be done, it is done but you have to have a good support system and plan. If you don't, if you can't, *then* you shouldn't be in the military.

 

Just so you know unless they changed it in the last twelve years, you cannot just say hey I want out of the military because I am going to have a baby. I was a single mother for a short time in the military but I did my time and got out. Thankfully I didn't have back up issues because the father was involved (we are married now)

 

It depends but many times, yes, you can separate from the Army during pregnancy in most cases.

http://www.dtic.mil/dacowits/agendadoc/ppts/Army_Pregnancy.ppt

 

http://chppm-www.apgea.army.mil/dhpw/Readiness/Documents/PregnancyCounselingGuide.pdf

 

 

AR 635-200, paragraphs 1-16, 1-36, 5-11, and 6-3; chapter 8:

Soldiers may choose to remain in the Service or separate.

 

The exception is female officers with a Service Obligation but they can still ask for a resignation from active duty.

 

 

AR 600-8-24, paragraphs 2-13, 2-14, 3-11, and 3-12; tables 2-5 and 3-4; and figures 2-2 and 2-3

Officers may choose to remainin the Service or request release from active duty; those officers with obligations due to schooling, incentive pay or funded programs are not eligible for release until completion of Service obligation.

 

Not exactly true. My Master Chief told me to leave my daughter with a babysitter for six months while DH and I were to be deployed. My XO told me to just find some daycare. The Navy absolutely refused to work with me, so I got out. I feel this mother's pain. The military definitely discriminates against active-duty moms. It is quite disgusting actually.

 

I don't know how it works in the Navy but I'm very familiar with how these things work in the Army and this was an Army soldier. If you were dual military-did you not have a family care plan?

 

Just to keep the facts straight....according to the articles I've read.....her baby was conceived AFTER she was already enlisted and serving. So she did not choose military as a single mother, but became a single mother after joining. A significant difference in a discussion about putting herself into this situation. However once the baby became an issue there were many ways to mitigate the situation, but so far I haven't seen that she has requested any of them (discharge, a change in field to a non-deployable one, etc). So far the only thing I've seen about the father is that they are no longer in a relationship.....not clear if he's military or not, interested in taking responsibility of his child, or even if he is aware of the child.

 

I agree (I agree with the rest of what you've said in the thread as well).

[Janet in Toronto]

There was quite a full story in our local (Toronto) newspaper on her circumstances.

[Mrs Mungo]

There was quite a full story in our local (Toronto) newspaper on her circumstances.

 

This is the same story that was linked before. Part of the problem here (and with many, many, many newspaper stories that I see) is that there aren't enough reporters who have served in the military. They don't know what questions to ask, they don't see the gaping holes in this story that the military families see.

 

For example:

Her civilian attorney, Rai Sue Sussman, said Monday that one of Hutchinson's superiors told her she would have to deploy anyway and place the child in foster care.

"One of her superiors"-what does this mean? Was it a platoon sergeant or a battalion commander? There is a chain of command. Instead of using it she just didn't show up. Missing movement is an extremely serious act.

[rookie]

with Remudamom - this is not on the up and up.

[Ravin]

One thing this thread has brought up several times is mention of dual-service couples with kids on deployment both at the same time. To me this speaks volumes about the overtaxing our servicepeople are experiencing these days. When I was in the Navy (got out in 1001), the dual-service couples I knew were not put on sea rotation (and thus deployment) at the same time. Because of billeting requirements, it was generally expected that if one of a couple had to be taken off of sea duty out of rotation, it would be the man, not the woman. But, it was the Navy's policy at the time to avoid having both of a dual-service couple with dependents in a deployment situation; especially where I was stationed, overseas in Japan, it wasn't practical to rely on stateside family to care for children.

 

I also knew a single mom of a teenager who was stationed on my ship; I believe she had a friend there in Yokusuka take charge of her son when we were deployed.

 

And if you truly think accidental pregnancy rarely happens nowadays, you're really overestimating the education and intelligence of a large chunk of the general population. OTOH, getting pregnant to get out of sea duty wasn't unheard of--usually girls who did that soon enough discovered that they had to either get out of the service or leave their 4mo. with the father of the baby (often another service member, often not their spouse) on shore while they shipped out again.

 

A family hardship discharge can be gotten in the sort of situation described above; missing movement is inexcusable, but it cannot be guaranteed that this girl had adequate information and support from her chain of command. As well informed and supported as I was in the service, I knew several people who weren't. Like my sister who managed to get through a Captain's Mast without actually realizing what she was doing there until after the fact, because no one told her, for sending an email complaining about the command's handling of a situation which had disturbed her (and which resulted in her having VA-diagnosed PTSD) to 1 person who then sent it to the entire ship. Or my other sister who was prevented from seeing a chaplain repeatedly, ignored when she complained about the girls in her hooch bringing males in to spend the night, kept on night duty constantly when the rest of the unit was on a rotation between nights and days, and shifted from Rec center desk duty to armed perimeter guard duty AFTER her chain of command was informed by medical that she was clinically depressed, all because her Chief Petty Officer had a grudge against her for listening to said Chief's daughters when they warned her not to bring her daughter around the Chief's brain-damaged vet husband because he'd molested them.

 

My point is, there could be wrongdoing on either or both sides of this situation--the soldier and the chain of command. At the least she missed movement and is going to have to pay the penalty for that. If she was shorted on information or support, shame on her command. If she tried to pull a fast one, shame on her. Either way, I mostly feel sorry for that baby!

[eight_gregorys]

Well I'm ex-military and so is my husband. My most recent deployment to Iraq involved leaving my five children with my DH after I was involuntarily recalled from the IRR. He ended up losing his job because of my deployment because someone had to be available to take care of our little ones. Which also meant our income was cut in half. It was a very hard time, and our children were all under 7. I hate to say this, but I find not fulfilling your obligation unexcusable. I was a single mother in the Army before I met my DH. There are options for those that don't have anyone to care for their children. A friend of mine was actually chaptered out for this exact reason. So while I understand the hardship that comes with being a single parent, missing movement is ridiculous. Whatever the reason, it should have never happened. People are counting on you to be there.

[PineFarmMom]

Well, I'm a hard core non feminist. I don't have a problem believing that men and women are equal in different ways. I don't think women have any business in the military. I think it's indicative of what's wrong with the US. If she signed up she shouldn't have gotten pregnant. Personally I don't think she should ever have been allowed to sign up.

 

It's a shame that someone will have to replace her. To me it's a shame that any of our young men and women are over there having to give their lives. I get sick anytime I hear about one of our soldiers being killed. I have great respect, especially for the parents of these children. (and that's what it always seems to be, children)

 

Go ahead and blast away. I think women ought to be women and not warriors. And I pray that our sons won't have to be sacrificed either.

 

ETA- I think it's just as horrible when a father is deployed. Moms are not more important, but as far as I'm concerned they just have different jobs. One job is not more important that the other, but they are different.

 

:iagree: You summed it all up quite nicely!! No blastings by me. ;)

[hornblower]

Of course, I think that women in the military is a good thing and that women should be allowed in combat, even in forward areas.

 

Yay!!!! :iagree:

Our Canadian women are.

 

We're uppity that way :D

[eight_gregorys]

I used to agree with this until I actually did it. Female soldiers in Iraq do and see the same crap males do...everywhere is a forward area. I've been home for 3 years and still have issues with things done/seen over there. The main thing is there are Iraqi children there acting as soldiers. It's a really hard thing to deal with especially being a mother.

 

Yay!!!! :iagree:

Our Canadian women are.

 

We're uppity that way :D

[Mrs Mungo]

But if this had been like most jobs she would have just lost her job, not been arrested. Why does this suddenly become criminal?

 

You cannot quit the military the way you can quit most jobs. If you walk away then you are a deserter, a federal felony charge.

[PineFarmMom]

I used to agree with this until I actually did it. Female soldiers in Iraq do and see the same crap males do...everywhere is a forward area. I've been home for 3 years and still have issues with things done/seen over there. The main thing is there are Iraqi children there acting as soldiers. It's a really hard thing to deal with especially being a mother.

 

:grouphug: I can't even imagine!!

[PineFarmMom]

:)

Edited November 21, 2009 by Texas T

[Mrs Mungo]

I used to agree with this until I actually did it. Female soldiers in Iraq do and see the same crap males do...everywhere is a forward area. I've been home for 3 years and still have issues with things done/seen over there. The main thing is there are Iraqi children there acting as soldiers. It's a really hard thing to deal with especially being a mother.

 

A non-military friend was asking me the other day what I thought the hardest thing about deployments was. I told her the hardest thing most of the guys deal with is how kids are treated in many of the countries they are deployed to. A lot of guys I know have problems with things they saw relating to kids.

[ekarl2]

But if this had been like most jobs she would have just lost her job, not been arrested. Why does this suddenly become criminal?

 

Look at it this way ... do you want those men and women who protect you in the military to see it as "just a job"????

[Guest ARMY VET]

While I don't want to discount being a military wife or spouse, you really don't know what it is to wear the uniform. Meaning, you may know from what you hear but until you put on the uniform, go to formations, sit in meetings, and deal directly with the military (in uniform) I don't see how you can say what is and what isn't. I, for one, wore uniform for 3 years and do you want to know what my determining factor for taking a pregnancy chapter was??? Well for those of you who are familiar with CDC (childcare centers on military bases, ARMY for sure), you know that if your child is sick YOU MUST come pick them up and most of the time they will not let them back in unless you have a Dr.'s ok. Well one fine day a fellow soldier in my company daughter was sick and was called to pick her up from CDC, informed the 1SGT (because her husband was deployed she was the only other avenue plus she was not deployable.) Well the Good Ol' Boy 1SGT of ours called company formation say about 1300 hrs and his words verbatum were, "If the ARMY wanted you to have a family, they would have issued you one with your TA-50 (your military equipment)!" That was the day I had my Chapter 30 paperwork started!!! So do I believe he told her that? ABSO-freakn-LUTLEY!! Should she go to jail---HECK NO!! What she needs is for her family (since she can't sue the goverment) to get a dang good attorney and get ready for a long ride!! What happened to that 1SGT you asked? Well he made another deragotory statement to a white female who had just got engaged to a black male in our company about "...watching out for those types of men because all they want to do is use you and have a snow bunny on their arms." Well she told the company commander and let's just say the 1SGT and I were ACAPing (processing out of the military) at the same time!!

[Mom0012]

I don't feel sorry for her at all. Harsh? Not at all. This is what she signed up for. I realize that she likely wasn't a mom when she joined, but it is part of the agreement-that when you have a child you have a plan for your deployment.

 

I REALLY hate it when people "feel sorry for a mom who is deploying". It is no different than if a man is deploying and it sets the Women's Movement back to suggest that moms are more valuable than dads. ETA: Hate it when people seem to have more sympathy for deploying mothers than deploying fathers.

 

She clearly disobeyed a lawful order and should be punished. I agree that there is more to this story!

 

It seems to be implied, for example, that she never talked to her first shirt about this and chose to simply not show up for the flight.

 

Sounds like a courts-martial to me.

 

To me it is very different to separate a mother from her toddler/baby than to separate a father. My husband is a wonderful father, but he didn't have anywhere near the bond or connection that I had with our children when they were babies and toddlers. How many fathers really take on the primary caregiver role with their young children? It seems cruel to the mother and cruel to the child to force a separation like that.

 

I do agree the mother should have acted more responsibly but can't agree that it's not any different for women than men in most cases.

 

Lisa

[nukeswife]

Look at it this way ... do you want those men and women who protect you in the military to see it as "just a job"????

 

:iagree: It's not just "most other jobs"

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

This is a sad, complex situation. Many have expressed opinions and ideas from both sides (military and civillian). The point I want to make in regards to mothers or fathers being deployed away from children is that we have an ALL VOLUNTEER military. And, anyone who volunteers for the military is told up front the size and scope of the commitment. Maybe not by the recruiter, but for sure by someone at some point.

 

and, since we're giving qualifiers, my husband is an ex-Air Force officer. I have numerous cousins and nephews in various branches of the military (all enlisted) including Navy, Coast Guard, Army and Air Force. My good friend is separated from the Air Force (enlisted) and her husband just retired. I was considering and being recruited as an RN into the Army Reserves. Just prior to "sigining on the dotted line" I thought about leaving my children for six months to a year and decided against it. Having my Masters degree paid for and being nondeployable for two years with a monetary stipend was a big carrot, but I knew when the time came to deploy I wouldn't be able to handle it.

[Mrs Mungo]

In a way yes. I want those fighting in a war to be fighting because they believe it is the right thing to do. Why should we be forced to fight wars we completely object to?

 

Nobody is forced into joining the military in the US. If you don't want the possibility of fighting a war you a philosophical problem with, don't join the military.

[Mrs Mungo]

Well yes, it would be less than ideal to actually have people make up their mind if a war is worth fighting, but why not? Why should we blindly follow? Many people in Nazi Germany legitimately believed they were fighting a just war yet many of them went to prison for doing so. How can we expect on the one hand blind allegiance but then also expect personal accountability? How does one turn that on and off? KWIM?

 

I will probably regret this post, but I can't help it. :blushing:

 

There is no "I was just following orders" or blind allegiance in the US Army. They are clearly told about legal v. illegal orders, international law, rules of engagement and such. Personal accountability is absolutely emphasized. That is different than having a problem with a strategic position. It isn't the job of the soldier to determine US strategic goals.