RANT RANT RANT RANT- I'm already mad!

[Heather in Neverland]

I forgot how much "standard" education bugs me. How do you have 20 kids in a room (this is a private school) and expect them all to learn the same thing at the same pace?????

 

Here is the thing...and I apologize if this sounds like stereotyping but it is true...a large portion of this school is Asian (mostly Korean and Chinese). These kids (most of them) are VERY smart. The parents put their kids in my school mostly because they want them to learn English and partly so they can easily get into an American college (avoid accreditation issues, etc.). This place is a bit pricey...about $10K per year in USD.

 

But policy states that kids get put into their grades by chronological age and Sept. 1 is the deadline. So, for instance, I have one 1st grader that is doing 4th grade math at home and her dad wants to know what we are going to do for her? I don't blame him. He is paying A LOT of money for his kid to go here and there are other options.

 

Plus, it's just not best for the child to make her sit through 3 years of math until she gets OLD ENOUGH to do math she is already capable of (which of course, may not happen since the parents will continue to supplement at home).

 

And I am reminded that THIS is why I homeschooled for the last 6 years. :glare: My own ds who is 5.5yo is in the kindergarten class age-wise. They are doing colors and shapes and he reads at a 2nd grade level! He already finished MUS Alpha and they are "learning" to count. Socially, he is squirrely and probably couldn't sit all day in a 1st or 2nd grade class. But why shouldn't he go to one of those classes just for math and/or reading?

 

I talked to another principal here and he said "What's your hurry?" WHAT???? I am not trying to HURRY these kids. I am trying to give them what they need. Why would you waste years of learning? Why would you waste that potential?

 

What if your child was capable of doing Algebra and you were told "No, no, no. He has to do adding and subtracting for a few years first." But he already knows that! "Too bad. His birth certificate says he is only old enough for 2nd grade math so that is all you are getting."

 

I really thought there would be more flexibility with it being a private school in a foreign country and not subject to the NCLB craziness. But apparently it is a point of PRIDE for them that we use an AMERICAN curriculum. What's so great about that? American PS curriculums are pretty crappy if you ask me.

 

OK, this rant is over but the battle has just begun. I don't give up THAT easily! I didn't move to the other side of the world to roll over and play dead.

[KidsHappen]

Oh Heather, I am so sorry. I was so sad to see that the rosy glow had worn off already. Institutional education is just crazy I tell you. I hope you can find a way to make things work for you and your students.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I understand. I went to one of those very pricey American schools overseas. And they were very proud of their American curriculum as well. Though as American curriculum goes it was college prep so it was a cut above what I found when I went to American public school for one year in 9th grade. I hope you can get some solutions for these children who need to grow their mind at their own pace.

[Hillary in KS]

When I taught public school, I would occasionally have a 4th grader who would walk in my door knowing 4th grade math. I made arrangements for that child to go to a 5th or 6th grade class for math. Could your 1st grader do something like that?

[WTMCassandra]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

How totally awesome, though, that these kids and parents have YOU as their principal, someone who really understands. What a powerful difference you can make in some gifted children's lives this year.

 

You are so smart and capable--I predict you will work through this and come up with a win-win solution. :001_smile:

[Aggie]

Will you have any say in a policy change that would address this issue? Would you be able to pay a teacher extra to work with kids like this on their planning period or after school?

 

Like Cassandra said, if anyone can make a positive change, you can.:001_smile:

[Michelle in AL]

I know what you mean. Please don't take this as bragging, it was just our reason to hs. My dd read at age 3.5. Not just short words, but almost any word with no teaching. She could also divide large numbers at 4 or 5. When it came time to go to 1st grade, I sat in on all the schools available in our area. When it came time to sit in on the ps 1st grade, we met with the principal afterwards. He had her WISC scores etc. and asked if I saw anything she might learn in the class. I said well maybe the punctuation they were adding to sentences written on the board. His response, "Well see, she'll learn something." :001_huh:

[tex-mex]

When I taught public school, I would occasionally have a 4th grader who would walk in my door knowing 4th grade math. I made arrangements for that child to go to a 5th or 6th grade class for math. Could your 1st grader do something like that?

 

Just what I was thinking... could 2 teachers "swap" him during their math times? It has been done before. But the child needs to be able to sit in the older class without disruption and do the work.

[Heather in Neverland]

We have only been in school for a week so I haven't made any policy changes...yet. :D But this is definitely going to be on my list. I think it is a TRAVESTY that we (meaning educators) ignore the more academically advanced kids. These kids are the future Einsteins! And we are doing nothing for them? Well, the kids in high school here can take gobs of AP classes but until 9th grade there is nothing. :confused:

 

In my ideal situation, all the kids would be tested to see where they are academically in at least Math and Reading and then they would go to that level of class...ability grouping, not age grouping.

 

The previous elementary principal who is now the high school principal is really big into "cooperative learning" which is great EXCEPT he is under the commonly held FALSE notion that grouping advanced kids with slower kids always brings the slower kids up when in fact it usually brings the faster kids down. In my experience, if gifted kids are not challenged they tune out. If you are interested in this a great book is "Losing Our Minds: Gifted Children Left Behind."

 

I know this can be a touchy subject. Parents can get really defensive when you talk about gifted kids. I usually end up with other parents either telling me "Well, I think ALL kids are gifted" or they lecture me on how I am pushing my kids too hard. Whatever.

 

I know part of this is a knee-jerk reaction because of what I have encountered with my own kids but seriously, if my kids were learning disabled they would get TONS of special services. But because they are gifted I am told "Just be glad they are smart and let it go." yes, that is what our local district said to us.

 

So I feel for these parents who just want what is best for their kids and they are willing to pay big bucks for it and they still can't get it. But you can bet your sweet bippy I will NOT let this one go. These people do not know what I am capable of when I am on a mission. But they are about to find out. :D

[WTMCassandra]

:hurray::hurray::hurray:

 

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

 

Here's my sweet bippy, betting on you!

 

(And by the way, does anyone know what that really means?!)

[Evergreen State Sue]

I think they picked the right principal for the job. You go girl!:thumbup:

[Heather in Neverland]

:hurray::hurray::hurray:

 

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

 

Here's my sweet bippy, betting on you!

 

(And by the way, does anyone know what that really means?!)

 

Nope, I really don't but I bet it is something really cool. :lol:

[keptwoman]

How lucky for those kids that they have you as Principal! To have someone that understands this is certainly a blessing.

In my boys private school (which I loved) before we came to Australia, they had ability groupings within a year group. So all the Grade 2 classes did math together, and they had an extra teachers, so within the 3 Grade two classes, they had 4 ability groups. It was so great for all the kids to be able to learn at their own pace! I felt like smacking my head against a brick wall when we got to Australia and they expected every kid in the class to do the same work!! And hence we now homeschool :rofl:

[Cera]

I truly hope you are able to change some of the policies of your new school. I still remember the frustration of getting sent out of class for hiding A wrinkle in time under the desk during second grade English.

[Heather in Neverland]

I truly hope you are able to change some of the policies of your new school. I still remember the frustration of getting sent out of class for hiding A wrinkle in time under the desk during second grade English.

 

Oh that's just terrible. :mad:

[Maplinmum]

The small private school my kids attended in the UK had the whole school doing maths and english at the same time so any child who needed to could move up or down for that class. It specialised in dyslexia so a lot moved down for english and up for maths.

[SquirrellyMama]

:hurray::hurray::hurray:

 

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

 

Here's my sweet bippy, betting on you!

 

(And by the way, does anyone know what that really means?!)

 

BIPPY - A jocular euphemism for a** (or rear), as in "bet your (sweet) bippy) by Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In, an NBC-TV comedy series.

[Melissa in Australia]

How lucky for those kids that they have you as Principal! To have someone that understands this is certainly a blessing.

In my boys private school (which I loved) before we came to Australia, they had ability groupings within a year group. So all the Grade 2 classes did math together, and they had an extra teachers, so within the 3 Grade two classes, they had 4 ability groups. It was so great for all the kids to be able to learn at their own pace! I felt like smacking my head against a brick wall when we got to Australia and they expected every kid in the class to do the same work!! And hence we now homeschool :rofl:

 

they do this in the very expensive private schools in Melbourne. my cousin goes to PLC, ( at $37 000 per year) and they have ability groupings in each year level, even if there are only 6 kids in each ability level. and if the student improves in ability, they are moved up to the next group.

[Amber in AUS]

We had ability groupings in my public PS in Perth. They divided the class into 3 groups, advanced, regular and behind. That was 60 kids (2 classes) divided up and then they had 2 teachers and a parent helper, 1 adult for each group to teach the math or reading. It worked VERY well as the behind kids were very keep to catch up to move into the next group. The advanced kids were challenged in other ways which was wonderful.

 

Goodluck Heather, change can be difficult for others to accept but you can do it!

[Amber in AUS]

Double post.

Edited August 18, 2009 by Amber in AUS

[MBM]

The schools in our area of Illinois allow kids to move ahead if they've mastered a certain level, or they tack on more challenging material. My son is in junior high and takes math at the high school. They even scheduled an early class for kids who are coming from junior high, so they can get back before first period. Our high schools all have tracking and testing in to place kids according to ability.

 

Kids who need extra time get that, too.

 

It'd be nice if more schools would do this, IMO. I have a feeling your school will be changing its policy this year. (chuckle, chuckle)

[Harriet Vane]

 

In my ideal situation, all the kids would be tested to see where they are academically in at least Math and Reading and then they would go to that level of class...ability grouping, not age grouping.

 

 

Yeah!!! You go girl!!!

 

Perhaps as you are finessing this along, you could use buzzwords like "university model."

 

I also think of the book Understood Betsy, and how thrilled Betsy was to be tested by her one-room schoolhouse teacher and placed in several different levels for different subjects. In the book she is especially happy to be put in a more appropriate reading class, and she contrasts it in her mind with the boring city class she had that was far below her ability. It's an American classic--perhaps you might show it to the other principal? ;)

[Renee in NC]

When I was in 4th grade, my teacher gave students who were more advanced "contracts" which were advanced math assignment sheets. We worked on these during math class. This allowed us to accelerate math without leaving the classroom.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I misunderstood so changing this significantly.

 

That is exactly why we homeschool.

My daughter was at a 4th-ish grade level at 3 yrs old. By 7, she was doing Algebra. What would the schools offer?

My son is extremely gifted but has some significant learning differences. At home, he can soar in some areas and get appropriate help in others.

 

At least you can make some changes to better allow each student the education he deserves. Honestly, there ARE teachers who accommodate multiple levels within one age group. I think some ability grouping would be nice, but teachers need to be encouraged to meet the needs of the individuals they have regardless also.

Edited August 18, 2009 by 2J5M9K

[Heather in Neverland]

So I had a glass of wine, ranted to my husband and this is my plan:

 

The week of Sept 7 we will be testing all students in grades 1-9 on Language Arts, Science and Math using the MAP test (Measures of Academic Progress). It is a really nice online test that is adaptive...each student's test adjusts itself with each question so if they get it right, it gives them a harder question and keeps going until they get it wrong so it can find the student's top range. The same thing goes if they get it wrong...it makes it easier until they get it right. That way every student is assessed on their instructional level.

 

We get the reports back almost immediately. Once I have that data in hand I will have PROOF that I will force them to acknowledge and then the process of changing policy can begin. Until then I just have to take deep cleansing breaths and count to ten in Swahili (like today when my 11yo ds, whose favorite book is Lord of the Rings, brought home his language arts homework assignment which was to draw a picture showing what their name means. ??? What in the world does that have to do with reading, writing, grammar, etc.???).

Edited August 18, 2009 by Heather in NC

[Chris in VA]

I'm so excited for you, Heather! And proud, too--hope that isn't strange.

 

One little comment--my dd went to school for 3rd grade last year and was sent out of the room once a week to participate in a gifted program. It was ok, but more just thinking skills. Her brother made the comment that "gifted just means you do more work, so why would anyone want to be gifted?" Just be aware that some kids may lose a little motivation if school, which has been so easy for years, suddenly gets challenging. And some parents may throw a fit if Johnny starts missing some on his tests because he's finally getting instruction on his level. It's stupid, but I know some parents invest a lot, psychologically, in those letter or percentage grades, and you may catch some flack for ramping up the standards.

 

But I know you can handle flack. :D

[Night Elf]

So, for instance, I have one 1st grader that is doing 4th grade math at home and her dad wants to know what we are going to do for her? I don't blame him. He is paying A LOT of money for his kid to go here and there are other options.

 

BTDT. The advice given to me from the teacher and principal was to stop letting my child get ahead. They suggested I keep only easy books in the house and not let her do anything with numbers so that the other kids would catch up and she would be on their level and be happier in the classroom. :001_huh:

 

That's great that this man has other options. Perhaps you should encourage him to learn more and make the best educational choice for his child.

 

I should add I experienced this attitude in a public elementary school that only went through 5th grade. I was told that they preferred to keep same age kids together for social reasons, and that they simply could not let a child advance because they did not have the resources beyond the 5th grade curriculum. The middle school is miles away from the elementary school, and the high school is miles away from both other schools.

Edited August 18, 2009 by Night Elf

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Well our experience being around international student bodies in Germany was that many of the students ended up being very spread out in ability because of the issue of working in multiple languages. There were frequently kids who used English in the classroom, German with their friends, Danish at home and had studied something else in their home country (for example, Swedish). Their maths might be great. They might have had good experience in science but need certain English language vocabulary. But they might still be working on English. Or maybe they were good listeners and readers but needed encouragement with speaking and lots of work on writing.

 

American curriculum or no, to ignore the wide spectrum of abilities is to ignore the talents and opportunities for growth that each student brings to the school.

 

I love the idea of having several classes do the same subject at the same time so that students can flip and flop between groups as needed. One of my huge pet peeves about schools is that when there is an advanced group classroom, it is often restricted to those above grade level in reading and in math. That might be fine for many. But there are too many kids who aren't wired that way.

[chai]

The previous elementary principal who is now the high school principal is really big into "cooperative learning" which is great EXCEPT he is under the commonly held FALSE notion that grouping advanced kids with slower kids always brings the slower kids up when in fact it usually brings the faster kids down. In my experience, if gifted kids are not challenged they tune out. If you are interested in this a great book is "Losing Our Minds: Gifted Children Left Behind."

 

 

My absolute worst memory of elementary school was being part of this type of experiment. They put the advanced 5th graders in the same classroom with the low 4th graders. It was a disaster. We (the 5th graders) all knew we were smart and we weren't very kind to the younger kids. We had more free time because the teacher spent more time with the youngers--and it was chaos! I'm quite sure that I didn't learn anything in that grade. :glare:

 

I have read that book and it totally cemented my plan to homeschool my dd.

[jujsky]

:grouphug: I have no advice, but wanted to lend my support. Education isn't one-size-fits-all. Once private and public schools realize that, American students may be able to compete with their international counterparts.

[WTMCassandra]

The small private school my kids attended in the UK had the whole school doing maths and english at the same time so any child who needed to could move up or down for that class. It specialised in dyslexia so a lot moved down for english and up for maths.

 

Wow, that's a great idea!

[WTMCassandra]

BIPPY - A jocular euphemism for a** (or rear), as in "bet your (sweet) bippy) by Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In, an NBC-TV comedy series.

 

Oh. My. :blushing:

 

Sorry, Heather! I didn't know it had an off-color connotation.

[kpupg]

This is exactly why we pulled our kids from a well-regarded private school to home school. Exactly why.

 

Sympathies :grouphug:

 

Karen

[Stacy in NJ]

I forgot how much "standard" education bugs me. How do you have 20 kids in a room (this is a private school) and expect them all to learn the same thing at the same pace?????

 

Here is the thing...and I apologize if this sounds like stereotyping but it is true...a large portion of this school is Asian (mostly Korean and Chinese). These kids (most of them) are VERY smart. The parents put their kids in my school mostly because they want them to learn English and partly so they can easily get into an American college (avoid accreditation issues, etc.). This place is a bit pricey...about $10K per year in USD.

 

But policy states that kids get put into their grades by chronological age and Sept. 1 is the deadline. So, for instance, I have one 1st grader that is doing 4th grade math at home and her dad wants to know what we are going to do for her? I don't blame him. He is paying A LOT of money for his kid to go here and there are other options.

 

Plus, it's just not best for the child to make her sit through 3 years of math until she gets OLD ENOUGH to do math she is already capable of (which of course, may not happen since the parents will continue to supplement at home).

 

And I am reminded that THIS is why I homeschooled for the last 6 years. :glare: My own ds who is 5.5yo is in the kindergarten class age-wise. They are doing colors and shapes and he reads at a 2nd grade level! He already finished MUS Alpha and they are "learning" to count. Socially, he is squirrely and probably couldn't sit all day in a 1st or 2nd grade class. But why shouldn't he go to one of those classes just for math and/or reading?

 

I talked to another principal here and he said "What's your hurry?" WHAT???? I am not trying to HURRY these kids. I am trying to give them what they need. Why would you waste years of learning? Why would you waste that potential?

 

What if your child was capable of doing Algebra and you were told "No, no, no. He has to do adding and subtracting for a few years first." But he already knows that! "Too bad. His birth certificate says he is only old enough for 2nd grade math so that is all you are getting."

 

I really thought there would be more flexibility with it being a private school in a foreign country and not subject to the NCLB craziness. But apparently it is a point of PRIDE for them that we use an AMERICAN curriculum. What's so great about that? American PS curriculums are pretty crappy if you ask me.

 

OK, this rant is over but the battle has just begun. I don't give up THAT easily! I didn't move to the other side of the world to roll over and play dead.

 

Does your school level (ability group) by grade level? Meaning, high performing 1st graders are grouped together for math and reading, low performing 1st graders are grouped for math and reading, then they're all intergrated for things like PE, art, music, history and science.

 

I'd start ability grouping by grade for skill specific subjects like math and reading. This allows the high performers to accelerate and also gives the lower performing kids the extra instruction they need.

 

Our local ps starts ability grouping in 3rd grade.

 

Just so you know, while kids in special ed do receive extra services in public schools, the quality of those services are usually really suspect.

[Heidi @ Mt Hope]

That was my favorite part in Understood Betsy. :) I loved the description of how she was able to be herself instead of a grade!

[FlockOfSillies]

The only thing about ability grouping in practice is that many school districts adopt a sink-or-swim attitude toward students, and they use ability grouping as a filtering mechanism. Many kids are effectively tracked out of any opportunity to take advanced math in high school, which negatively impacts their college prospects. There's plenty of talk about the downside of ability grouping at kitchentablemath.blogspot.com.

[sadiegirl]

Just wanted to say good luck and stay encouraged! If the kids who will benefit from the changes you are going to try to implement can have a say in what happens then maybe the "powers in charge" will listen! Kids want to learn! So, maybe support thru the kids(and their parents) may be the pushing power you need to get your job done!!

Anyway, good luck and stay positive!

[KrissiK]

I had this problem teaching jr. high science. It's more of a content area class, but I always had to teach to the middle/lower kids and I wasn't able to push the kids that excelled as much as I wanted because a) well, they were in jr. high, so it's not cool to do extra work, even if you're capable and b) I was so busy trying to keep up the lower kids. Fortunately, we did a lot of projects, so the brighter, more motivated kids really pushed themselves (you should have seen the baking soda/vinegar powered speed boats they came up with) and I think really got a lot out of the class. But by junior high, it's awful. The bright kids are lazy and bored, and the lower kids are behavior problems because they've gone through that much school "not getting it", so why even try.

[elizabeth]

This is precisely why we home educate. Dd could read HPotter on her own in kindy....that went over like a lead balloon. Her math abilities were also highly accelerated. The principal told me that I could not simply remover her and homeschool as I needed state approval. Too bad for her that I am both very stubborn and well prepared. Oh yeah , she kind of forgot that I am a lawyer as well. You absolutely are on the right track . There is a great report available at the Belin Blank Center at University of Iowa that details exactly how misguided the policies toward gifted learners are. It can be found here:

http://www.accelerationinstitute.org/ This is a vanguard effort in the American education system. Let them have this and deny that change needs to happen. Bravo and carry on !!!:hurray:

[Donovans4]

I haven't read through all the replies, so forgive me if this has already been suggested. My dd was in school through second grade, and the entire school did math at the same time each day, first through eighth grade. The first week or so was spent on assessing each child, and then they were assigned to a skill-level appropriate classroom. So, if a first grader was doing 4th grade math, he went to the 4th grade classroom for instruction. The kids were very comfortable with all ages mixed together and it seemed to work quite well.

 

LauraD in MN

[alexfam]

This is the reason we homeschool. Ds went into K reading chapter books and had started doing multiplication (he could have easily started 2nd grade ps math). I was a substitute teacher so I know what they where doing in different grades and I know my ds. Sadly to say that even private schools decide they can not or will not work with gifted children. We have finally found a PS that will work with gifted children. It is a virtual public school. My son has to do all the assesments for math in the grade he is in but his teacher says he can be done within a week or two and then start the next grade. We will probably do the next grade the same way so that my ds will eventually have a 3 grade subject acceleration in math.

[WTMCassandra]

Elizabeth, this is an excellent link. I particularly like the Academic Acceleration Policies document on this page. I think it could be helpful to Heather. She could capitalize on their pride in American curriculum, and she could present it as a new American trend ; ). Hoist 'em on their own petard.

[Jill- OK]

The small private school my kids attended in the UK had the whole school doing maths and english at the same time so any child who needed to could move up or down for that class. It specialised in dyslexia so a lot moved down for english and up for maths.

 

I was grade advanced, and while I don't think one or two levels is a big deal, for an overall skip...my mom declined more than that, and I wouldn't consider it for the kids of mine who are advanced.

 

It's so rarely across the board, you know? A child doing algebra might not be reading Dickens.

 

Leaving them in their social age group, and shifting them for areas of higher ability addresses their needs and leaves wiggle room for asynchronous development, too.

[unsinkable]

Am I the only one who is wondering why you didn't know this info before you took the job? :001_huh:

[Heather in Neverland]

Am I the only one who is wondering why you didn't know this info before you took the job? :001_huh:

 

maybe. maybe not. either way, I am here now and I need advice not 20/20 hindsight.

 

 

 

Thank you for those awesome links and ideas ladies! Iam actually saving these replies as anecdotal evidence to go with my hard data!

[WTMCassandra]

:grouphug:

 

Have you seen Elizabeth's post? I think it might really be able to help you formulate a policy. Another poster mentioned having all of the grades do math and English at set times so students could easily be swapped to harder/easier levels.

[joannqn]

That stinks, yet it is typical. I think it is great that they have a principle who is willing to look at the situation and try to change it.

 

What if your child was capable of doing Algebra and you were told "No, no, no. He has to do adding and subtracting for a few years first." But he already knows that! "Too bad. His birth certificate says he is only old enough for 2nd grade math so that is all you are getting."

 

You just described my 7 year old. I expect him to finish prealgebra and algebra this year. When I say "expect", I'm not talking about me forcing him to do this level. I'm using the word as "regarding as probable" based on his understanding of math and how quickly he usually works.

 

How totally awesome, though, that these kids and parents have YOU as their principal, someone who really understands. What a powerful difference you can make in some gifted children's lives this year.

 

You are so smart and capable--I predict you will work through this and come up with a win-win solution. :001_smile:

 

:iagree:

 

In my experience, if gifted kids are not challenged they tune out.

 

I've seen this first hand with my daughter. I knew that she was ahead and taught her at a level that was one year ahead of where she would be in public school. She complained constantly. By 2nd grade, she hated school, even though we were homeschooling at an advanced level. I didn't realized how advanced she was; what I thought was advanced was still very boring, repetitive, and nothing new.

 

The week of Sept 7 we will be testing all students in grades 1-9 on Language Arts, Science and Math using the MAP test (Measures of Academic Progress). It is a really nice online test that is adaptive...each student's test adjusts itself with each question so if they get it right, it gives them a harder question and keeps going until they get it wrong so it can find the student's top range. The same thing goes if they get it wrong...it makes it easier until they get it right. That way every student is assessed on their instructional level.

 

I have experience with that test and think the results will be helpful! Our virtual academy uses the test to fulfill the yearly testing requirement for the state. It wasn't until we joined the virtual academy and got my daughter's results back that I understood why my daughter hated doing school. She was 8 and would have been finishing 2nd grade. We were finishing up 3rd grade. She tested at 9th grade reading and above 10th grade for language usage. I've had to work really hard, and am still working really hard, to re-engage her. I have a very helpful chart showing the median RIT scores for each grade level in reading, language usage, and math and a link that gives the percentiles for grade level for each RIT score that you may find useful if you don't get that information from the school. Our virtual academy has some charts for understanding these scores but nothing as clear or usual as these; in fact, I gave them to our advisory teacher at the school for her use. PM me your email if you would like them.