Marriage in Jeapordy Becoming A Proper Wife, Please Pray CC

[Impish]

God laid it on my heart a few months ago that I was to become a proper wife to my husband. That I wasn't honouring him as I should, in mind, heart, or works. The term, 'submissive wife' made me recoil. But God continued to lay this on my heart.

 

Without getting into all the details, my husband and I are on the brink of separation. I didn't know, until the other night. All of the things that God was laying on my heart had been breaking my husband's, and he told me he couldn't handle a marriage like ours anymore...it wasn't a marriage, it was roommates with childcare, housework, and healthcare thrown in.

 

I wrote him a letter, explaining all that God had been laying on my heart for the last few months, and have begun making changes, very rapidly. Some are hard for me, due to RSD. Some are painful, because its staring my own stupid pride in the face, and laying it aside. Stupid, stupid pride over things that make no rational sense to have an issue about. Give you an example. Work lunches.

 

When we got married, Wolf assumed I would make his lunch for work. I looked at him like he was nuts. I had my lunch to make, my oldest son's, and Wolf was a fully functioning adult, he was capable of making his own, instead of adding to my work load. We tussled over this until he finally told me that my making his lunch made him feel loved and cared for, that it was something I was doing solely for him, nobody else. Then I was fine with making his lunch. Then he was laid off, and I was the only one working, and pregnant to boot. He made my lunch a grand total of three times. I've never made his lunch since. Yes, I kept score and was bitter about it. And Tazzie is four years old.

 

The night he told me he wanted out of our marriage, and I confessed to him what was in my heart, I got out of our bed, and made his lunch. I also wrote him a 2 page letter, explaining more fully whats been in my heart.

 

He was so shocked and pleased that I made his lunch. He told the guys at work, "My wife and I had it out last night...and this is the first lunch she's made me in five years!" The guys at work offered to test it for him first! :lol:

 

Anyways, all of this to say, if you have any ideas of how to further be an obedient, respectful, submissive wife who honours her husband as the head of the house hold, I'd really appreciate it. I wasn't raised in a Christian house hold, and I'm doing this blind. One of the biggest issues we've had is that as a single mom, I wasn't used to having anyone else as a power in my home. We've had a power struggle in our marriage from day one.

 

And please, pray for us.

 

And notice, I've typed this in NON bold font, so that everyone can read it and not be bothered by the font, as I've had some folks complain about my usual bolding. Its something I've done online for 10 yrs or so :lol:

 

ETA: Please, no debate over the 'submissive wife' etc. I know that its something I railed against myself, but its something truly in my heart that I believe God has laid there. Thank you.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Impish

[Caraway]

You might enjoy reading Dr. Laura's books about husbands and marriage. I am not a submissive wife - but I have learned that my marriage is a lot better when I am a NICE wife.

[5kidsforME]

Impish, I am running out the door so I will have to reply again later. I can tell you that I could have written your post awhile ago.

 

Anything written by Elizabeth George will help you. Here is one in particular. We have a great library so I can get a lot of her books from there. You could read and use her books as devotions for years, she has many great ones.

 

Here is one i recommend for right now:

http://www.amazon.com/Wife-After-Gods-Own-Heart/dp/0736911677/ref=sr_1_29?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1247252177&sr=8-29

 

 

:grouphug:

[Pip]

I know of what you speak. This past year has been a time of reflection for me on how I was behaving as a wife. By the grace of God dh never considered leaving me, but I put him through some h*ll.

 

I would suggest getting some counselling, but I have qualms about Christian counselling for various reasons we don't need to get into.

Are there mentoring couples at your church, someone you could talk to on the pastoral staff?

 

I would also suggest doing "The Love Dare" and watching the movie "Fireproof." So many people are talking about both that suggesting them seems cliche, but they are very valuable. I did The Love Dare on my own and dh and I are now thinking of doing it together.

 

I will be praying for you.

 

:grouphug:

[*********]

I learned a lot, and was challenged a lot, by reading 'The Excellent Wife' by Martha Peace. It's a fantastic place to start.

 

I did NOT enjoy or learn a lot from 'Created To Be His Helpmeet' by, um, I can't remember her name right now. Oh, wait. Pearl, maybe was her last name? But the author, well, she just seemed to not like women. That was just my perception.

 

I am a submissive wife. At least, I strive to be. And it has made a HUGE difference in our marriage. Feel free to pm me if you want.

[TheCoffeeChick]

I've got to second Dr. Laura's book "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands". It helps you to see what your husband is thinking and why the small things are important (like making a lunch) to him.

 

God's blessings on your marriage.

[thowell]

Hi, i am new to this forum but when i read your post it really touched my heart. I was in a very similar situation as yours. When my husband and I got married we were not actively involved in church. He did not even know the Lord. I was divorced from a very abusive marriage and not going to let anyone control me. a couple of years into our marriage we both came to know the Lord and strated living out lives for him. The submissive part was the hardest for me also. It took alot of prayer and caused alot of tears. Hear is what I feel God laid on my heart. Is your husband a good man who is living his life for the Lord? Do you trust your husband to make the right decisions based on what the Lord would want? My answers to both of these questions were Yes! I slowly began to turn over control to him and what a relief I found it to be!!! That does not mean that he does and says and acts however he wants without consideration of my feelings and opinions. We listen to each others opinions and come together but I do put alot of trust in what he thinks. I know that he puts alot of prayer into his decisions and lets the Lord lead him. As for the little things, the hardest thing for me to realize was that just because I make his lunch or iron his clothes does not make me his slave or make me less of a person than him. These are ways I show him how I appreciate all that he does for our family.I do believe that this type of marriage will only be successful if both are on board. Our motto is that marriage is not 50-50 it is 100-100.

Now I am sure that there are alot of wives who would disagree with me and that is just fine with me. This is just my personal opinion!!!! Afterall this would be a very boring world if we all thought alike. God Bless!!:lol:

[Veritaserum]

You might enjoy reading Dr. Laura's books about husbands and marriage. I am not a submissive wife - but I have learned that my marriage is a lot better when I am a NICE wife.

 

:iagree: Gary Campbell's The Five Love Languages is also a good read (for both of you). I suggest you both read The Care and Proper Feeding of Marriage by Dr. Laura as well. The Care and Proper Feeding of Husbands by Dr. Laura is a good one for you to read by yourself.

[Impish]

We don't currently attend a church. Because of my RSD, being in public is very difficult for me. Being bumped into causes me to be in hours of extreme pain. That being said, its something else that God has been urging me to do...find fellowship. Either a church, or a home church. Something else I need to approach my husband about. He works every other weekend as well, this wknd is one of them, so I know it won't be at least til next wknd at best.

 

Thank you for the book suggestions, and the prayers. Much appreciated. If anyone else cares to chime in, I'd love to hear from them.

[KingM]

You might enjoy reading Dr. Laura's books about husbands and marriage. I am not a submissive wife - but I have learned that my marriage is a lot better when I am a NICE wife.

 

That's a good thought. I bristle at the term submissive, but this is advice that could be applicable to either husband or wife.

 

I don't know enough to comment about your particular situation, Impish, but I sincerely hope that everything turns out well for you and your husband however you proceed.

[Aggie]

From what you said about making lunches, I second The Five Love Languages.

 

 

:grouphug: and prayers for you, your dh, and your marriage.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I second the Five Love Languages. I also recommend that you schedule some time to go over the book - away from home. This way, you can work on doing the things that help him feel loved and honored and you can guide him on ways that he can help you feel loved.

 

It is hard to be in a marriage when one has health issues. There are times when one cannot give the other person what he or she needs. That is why keeping score is not helpful because that leads to an accusatory vibe. However, asking for what needs is important.

[Impish]

That's a good thought. I bristle at the term submissive, but this is advice that could be applicable to either husband or wife.

 

I don't know enough to comment about your particular situation, Impish, but I sincerely hope that everything turns out well for you and your husband however you proceed.

Thank you. For me, the term 'submissive' is something I used to bristle at as well. I can't really explain why I don't any more. I just can't. As I explained to my husband, its not that I'm suddenly helpless to make a decision without him, utterly dependent on him in every way, shape and form...That would drive him insane. To me, it means that I'm giving up the undercurrent of power struggle that has existed in my marriage from the beginning. Letting go of it, and recognizing him as the head of the household, and according him the respect that goes with it.

[Jazzy]

I am new here, but I've been in a similar situation and I wanted to share some things that helped me.

 

I was raised by a single mother, so I was really into independence and everyone pulling their own weight, etc. When my dh and I married, I had an attitude similar to yours - he is an adult and he can fix his own lunch, pick up his own dirty clothes, etc. I even went beyond that to say that even though he worked extremely hard so I could be a sahm, he should come home and do his fair share by helping me with household chores, etc.

 

We were miserable, and several years ago, I decided to change. I started studying my husband - kind of like a scientist. What were his likes/dislikes? What were his preferences? What did he want/need from me as a wife? I decided to stop judging his words/actions and convince him he was wrong, and instead try to understand WHY he did the things he did. Why does he want things done this way? Why does he find xyz upsetting? I was determined to accept him as is, and I stopped trying to change him in any way.

 

I tried my best to keep the house the way he wanted it without asking him to help. If he asked me to do something, I made it a top priority. If he had a suggestion for homeschooling that I thought was totally unnecessary, I implemented it anyway. (And it was often beneficial, lol.) I encouraged him to do things for himself, like golf lessons, etc. And when he came home from out of town and fell asleep in his chair, I did the bedtime routine myself instead of complaining that he'd been away all week and it was my turn to relax, blah, blah, blah. (Can you see how awful I was?)

 

Anyway, through this process I really came to KNOW my dh, and in some strange way he started to fully trust me and he began to really know me. We started giving each other the benefit of the doubt. We started really trying to please each other. We gladly sacrificed of ourselves for each other.

 

It was a slow process, but over the past 3-4 years, things have just become better and better. I'm now pg with my 4th child, and dh has pampered me like never before. Sometimes I have to pinch myself. Our 10th anniversay is this month, and we are best friends. We share our thoughts and feelings honestly, and we can't wait to be together. We have even had the opportunity to help other couples.

 

The change you want is definitely possible, but sometimes it starts with a lot of sacrifice on the part of one person and grows from there. Kudos to you for wanting to change things for the better and being willing to start with yourself!

 

I railed against the submissive wife stuff for years and years. Now, I will proudly say I am submissive to my husband, and in turn, he has given himself up for me. It makes for a very happy marriage.

 

ETA: As far as the decision making, I decided to trust my dh's judgment and stop trying to control everything. He still wants my opinion about everything, and would never purposely do something I was opposed to. But there is no power struggle. It has honestly been a burden lifted. It is a relief to be able to trust him and not try to control everything.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Jazzy

[Orthodox6]

:grouphug: Please go for marital counseling with a minister/priest/pastor whom you and your husband feel trustworthy. Reading books is NOT going to accomplish the objective assessment of what needs restructuring and healing between you two. You don't currently have a parish, but you can ask the recommendations of friends whom you trust. A counselor can see each of you individually, and as a pair in ways which neither you nor your dh can.

 

"Submission" has different interpretations. My church might not interpret it as would other people's. (in fact, we don't) So it is important that you and your dh agree on what this often-abused term truly means within the boundaries of your shared religious beliefs.

 

Again, :grouphug: !

 

Antonia

Edited July 10, 2009 by Orthodox6

[Once Again]

I will also recommend Dr. Laura's "The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands".

[Harriet Vane]

We don't currently attend a church. Because of my RSD, being in public is very difficult for me. Being bumped into causes me to be in hours of extreme pain. That being said, its something else that God has been urging me to do...find fellowship. Either a church, or a home church. Something else I need to approach my husband about. He works every other weekend as well, this wknd is one of them, so I know it won't be at least til next wknd at best.

 

Thank you for the book suggestions, and the prayers. Much appreciated. If anyone else cares to chime in, I'd love to hear from them.

 

I have read other posts about your disability, and am truly sorry for the many ways it has impacted your life. I respect the love and care you are putting into your marriage--surely blessings will come from that investment.

 

As far as church fellowship goes, perhaps you can just be a part of a small group Bible study? There is nothing in the Bible that specifies that fellowship must be sought at a formal, large service on Sunday morning. It may be that a small group will give you the fellowship, support, and teaching you desire without the stress of the large, formal service.

[lionfamily1999]

We went through an incredibly bad period about four years ago. I've found that on Fridays, before dh gets home from work, I need to shake out all the negative, angry, bitter things I've been feeling and turn the page, so to speak. Friday night, we start fresh. I "forget" that he was late on Wednesday or forgot to pick up my smokes on Tuesday or left without a kiss goodbye on Monday. I move on, if I can... if I can't, then I sit down and try to rationally put together whatever issues are lingering. I still have a hard time discussing these things, but his responses (normally, wow, that really bothered you :confused:) are actually very comforting.

 

The most important part is to remember to move forward. Keeping score is bad for everyone, even you :).

 

:grouphug:

[Liz CA]

Another suggestions is "Boundaries in Marriage" by Cloud/Townsend.

Dh and I are working through the book for the first time and we find a lot of interesting concepts that illuminate the "submissive" part quite a bit. This has to be the most misunderstood word in the Bible and I have made so many mistakes trying to live up to other people's interpretation of it.

The authors of "Boundaries in Marriage" are Christian and licensed psychologists. I find their advice down to earth and very helpful. And, of course, they are always in favor of making a marriage work and flourish even though the book title seems a little odd to some people.

 

[abbeyej]

And notice, I've typed this in NON bold font, so that everyone can read it and not be bothered by the font, as I've had some folks complain about my usual bolding. Its something I've done online for 10 yrs or so :lol:

 

You know, I'm not someone who has ever commented on your boldface posts, but I'll admit it has made it very difficult for me to read them in the past. There are many times when I've just skipped whatever it was you had to say because it made my head hurt to try to read it. So thanks for not using bold this time. I know it sounds petty, lol, but it really *does* make a difference.

 

And I'll agree strongly with others that whether one chooses to use the word "submissive" or not, there is great benefit to learning to be a kind spouse, and one who serves his or her spouse whenever possible. We talk with our kids often about family needing to serve *each*other*, and show kindness and respect to each other. That doesn't mean demanding things from each other ("You serve me and make my lunch!"), but looking for ways to support and be kind to each other, ("Goodness, I'd rather not, but it would only take me a few minutes to pull together a lunch for dh/dw, and that would be a kindness to them. Oooh, and I bet I still have one of those pickles s/he likes here in the back of the fridge...")

 

And you know, making a lunch for him may seem like a small thing -- and it is -- but it's also a huge thing. Look for other things too. What annoys him? Is it tripping over the kids' shoes when he walks in the front door? What makes him happy? Is it getting a fresh homemade cookie in the evening before bed? How can you make home a "soft place" for him to come back to at the end of the day? How can you help make it his refuge? Maybe a shoe rack, or a quick pick-up time before he gets home from work. Maybe you can make up some cookie dough and freeze individual cookie-sized portions, so you can bake just 1-2 cookies at a time when he would appreciate one. Maybe... Just try to think of other *little* things that will change his perception of home, to one of peace and refuge.

 

And maybe write him a note about things that you love about him. They can be tiny. They can be big. They can be wildly mundane, or slightly silly... Just think of 5 things you love about him -- whether it's a kind thing he does for you, or a sweet thing he says, or the way he plays with one of the kids, or...

 

And if he ever takes then hint and writes back the things he loves about you, well, that may give you clues as to how you can serve him even more.

[Tree House Academy]

Boy, have I been there.

 

My husband is actually the same way with work lunches. And making the bed. I do these things to please him and not because I want to do them necessarily.

 

What you said about "roommates" gives me the feeling that your dh is not getting what he needs from the marriage. It is likely that you aren't either. The old story is true time and time again. Men are physical creatures and women are more emotional. I thought this was crap and that my dh was just wanting to get drunk on too much tea, so to speak. BUT, when I confronted him with this and we got down to the depths of the issue, it was that he needed to feel like I was his wife. For me, those feelings come through emotions. Sure, I enjoy the physical aspect of our relationship...but I don't NEED it like he does. For him, the closeness and emotion comes from being intimate with me. He was so heartfelt and honest about it that I started to see the act of tea making totally differently. It has really helped our marriage. I am not saying "make more tea and he will be happy," what I am saying is that you need to get into the actual "issue" and how to meet his needs in those areas. The best way to do this is to...ask him. Have a real heart to heart and do your best to understand what he needs. My dh may have said, "I need you to touch me more often" and I would have translated that into "he's just wanting tea"...when the real truth of the matter was that, yes, he did want tea, but he didn't just want it for the sake of drinking it. He wanted to savor it, enjoy it, make more of it, and then bask in the glow of having a belly full. Maybe this sounds stupid. I am sorry if it does. It has just really helped us and I can remember my dh using the same terms yours did..."roommates."

 

My prayers are with you. It sounds as if you both really love each other and that you are prayerfully considering how to help your marriage. For a long time, I prayed and asked God to help me. Now I know that, all those years when I felt He was not doing anything to help, He was...I just wasn't listening/"getting it."

 

God bless you hon! It takes so much courage to post something so sensitive and private. I appreciate your honesty. You will be in my prayers!

 

Edited to add P.S. Your bold posts never bother me...but being a technical writer, bold means emphasis....so I find myself scrolling along through a thread and my eyes automatically HAVE to read your post. Sometimes, that can be annoying. LOL Not that your posts aren't great...sometimes i just don't plan to read all of a thread but I stop when I see bold out of habit and read it.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Tree House Academy

[dhudson]

I agree with the suggestions for "Love Languages" and the "Love Dare". I also like "Love and Respect" .They have been a great help for me. I am a very strong personality and can be very controlling and I don't think "submissive" was a word ever used in description of me until a few years ago - even now it's not used often!:glare:

 

Having watched marriages with strong women who do not submit and marriages with strong women who do submit, I decided I needed to change my ways. I had read "Love and Respect" and one line really caught my attention. It said basically, "Would you like your son's to have wives like you are?". That statement along with my observations of other marriage hit me like a ton of bricks. I don't want my sons to have wives who constantly battle them for control or who constantly have a one upmanship battle. I had to change my ways and in a hurry! I started doing things for my dh because that's what God wanted me to do, not necessarily for my dh but in obedience to God. In the process of obeying God, I learned how to obey my dh. Now, unless someone think I am a doormat :lol:, which no one does, my dh is a kind and caring man and asks my opinions on everything and we make decisions based on what's best. My marriage is so much better, I am happier not having to be in control of everything and now I am becoming a role model for my dd (who is strong like her Mom) and prayerfully the kind of wife my sons can look for someday.

 

I pray that your marriage can be saved and that you become the wife and mother that God wants you to be.

[LBC]

It said basically, "Would you like your son's to have wives like you are?". That statement along with my observations of other marriage hit me like a ton of bricks. I don't want my sons to have wives who constantly battle them for control or who constantly have a one upmanship battle.

 

:eek: I must get that book!:scared:

 

Lori

[Tami]

Well, well done! FWIW, you are probably going to swing too far for a while before finding a happy balance between being submissive and shrewish! Give yourself a break.

 

Q: Is your husband a "proper" husband? Respectull? Prone to power trips? I am hesitant to tell you to give up the keys to the kingdom if you husband isn't submissive to a church body. We are ALL under authority, and it's important to have checks and balances so that things don't swing too far the other way. Would you pray about getting involved with a local church that is a healthy, well-balanced community that will help guide the both of you into harmony?

 

Q: How is your spiritual, emotional, and physical health? It is impossible to be a proper wife if you are weak in those areas. Would you consider praying about greater wellness - spiritually, emotionally, AND physically? Pray whether the Lord would have you fellowship with other ladies, focus on greater physical health by making a nutrition and exercise plan, and by picking up with old friendships that have gone by the wayside.

 

I would recommend counseling RIGHT AWAY. I also recommend reading "Love and Respect" and seeing if one of the "Love and Respect" marriage conferences is coming to your area. It sounds like "Acts of Service" might be your husband's Love Language. If you haven't read "Five Love Languages" I HIGHLY recommend it. It opened my eyes so much to the way my husband feels!

 

I'm having a hard time with the making lunch illustration and I'll tell you why. Now, maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it sounds a bit demanding to me. Will your husband threaten to divorce you if you don't pair his socks correctly, or have dinner on the table by 5:30? Will this become a manipulative type thing?

 

Your husband is called to love you as Christ loved the church, laying his life down. You are never going to be the perfect, proper wife. I'm not the perfect, proper wife, and my husband serves and loves me so much more than I could ever deserve! He is truly Jesus with skin on to me. I find it troubling that your husband is talking divorce, if the only reason is that you are not making his lunch and otherwise pampering him. I would wonder where he is at emotionally, physically, and spiritually.

I would make an appointment for counseling ASAP, and enlarge your circle of Christian friends who can encourage you and mentor you along the way.

 

How it works in my marriage, is that I feel a great deal of love and acceptance from my husband. It changed my life, and made me blossom in all areas, to tell you the truth. I am grateful. It is easy to me to be respectful and submissive to my husband, because he does not demand it. He is in full submission to our church elders, and to the Lord. It is restful to me to give him respect, and joyful to me to surrender to him. Again, the key for me is that he is so strong and yet so gentle. I trust him implicitly. This is something that has grown over the years, and I pray it will be that way for you and your husband.

 

I think you have gotten some good advice, so I won't repeat what has already been said. I did want to point out some thoughts I had, and hope you consider them.

 

Blessing!

Edited July 10, 2009 by Tami

[angela in ohio]

It said basically, "Would you like your son's to have wives like you are?"

 

As an aside, I tell my girls all of the time that if they nag and peck at their (younger) brother, he will grow up to marry someone like that, and then they will have to spend holidays with her. :D

 

Angela (another strong woman who learned to submit, and it has made me a very happy - and still strong - woman!)

Edited July 10, 2009 by angela in ohio
need a comma

[lionfamily1999]

I'm having a hard time with the making lunch illustration and I'll tell you why. Now, maybe I'm reading this wrong, but it sounds a bit demanding to me. Will your husband threaten to divorce you if you don't pair his socks correctly, or have dinner on the table by 5:30? Will this become a manipulative type thing? Blessing!

It sounded to me more like this was something that meant a great deal to him, less because he wants her to make his food, more like, he wants her to WANT to make his food, iykwIm. I understand that completely, I want my dh to WANT to help me. Him helping makes me feel loved, I get the warm fuzzies whenever he picks up and puts things away.

 

Often, the things we point to as the root of the problem are really just a symptom. It sounds like he feels as though their living in separate spheres and the lunches are just one thing that he's lost. He wants her involved in his life, he wants her invested in his life.

 

Of course, I could be completely wrong :)

[Desert Rat]

I just want to add that I've learned so much from this thread and I'm not Christian or submissive, but I do need to pay more attention to my marriage and be much kinder in my actions. Thank you, Impish for posting and for all the wise people who responded in kind. I don't really thing it matters what religion you are, kindness, common courtesy and attentiveness go a long way. I wish the best for you, Impish. I hope all works out well.

[ConnieB]

I would suggest that you and DH get some marriage counseling. If your making a lunch for him for the first time in 5 years was such a big deal to him, then I would say there may be other very "easy" changes that BOTH of you could make to keep your marriage strong. Sometimes it's the little things that make life worthwhile, and yet are the hardest to see. A counselor would be able to help facilitate some very honest discussion between the two of you about what each of you needs/wants/expects from the other and from "marriage".

 

Simply vowing to become submissive, or whatever phrase you want to put on it, may NOT be what he wants. Making a lunch was submissive in YOUR mind, but in his it was about a showing of your love to him. He may not want a wife that is submissive in everything.....he may not see something as simple as making a lunch as being submissive. I know for my own marriage if I were to be as submissive as some of the books I've read, my husband would probably leave me over THAT. He wants an equal partner....one that will help him talk through the difficult decisions and choices we have to make in our life.....one that will shoulder the burden when it's feeling extra heavy for him and who will allow him to take on a little more when it's heavy for me. He wants someone who will tell him when he's wrong, when he's made a poor decision/choice, or isn't being fair with one of the kids.....not someone who will let him go on because he's the "man of the house". I know this may insult some for whom their spouse isn't this way, or they aren't....but in my house that wouldn't work. It hasn't been easy finding that middle ground of power especially since, like OP, I was an independent, self-sufficient person before we married and I wasn't about to give that up any more than he wanted to be less of one either. But the middle ground worked much better for us. I think the biggest thing we had to learn was when to decide that our point of view wasn't as important to us, as it the other's point of view was to them......in other words, when to give in because "it's not a mountain I want to die on". When it comes to the kids, I probably stand firm much more often than he does....he'd let them eat sugar and drink soda all day if it meant for less "oh please" from the kids.....but he knows that their healthy eating is vitally important to me, so he lets my choices take top priority, even when I can see that his face is saying "oh come on give it a break, it's a soda". For me, it's probably letting him buy the latest gadget which I find silly and a waste of money, but that is important to him.....he'll listen when I say budget says no, but then he'll figure out a way to make some cash to get it, lol. He respects the budget, thank heavens, because before marriage he was living paycheck to paycheck and I had a house and savings, so he knows which is better there, but every once in a while, his face shows his struggle.

 

This isn't the type of discussion that you probably can have constructively just between the two of you....it can turn ugly quite quickly and you need someone as "referee" if not as a guiding force. Perhaps a trusted friend or pastor, but that's asking a lot of someone who knows and loves both of you, so it may be better to seek an independent and professionally trained person to oversee this frank discussion. In preparation for it, you both might want to privately think seriously about the things that you want from each other....the big stuff and the little stuff. Often times it's the little things that matter the most though....like lunches. I wonder if HE realizes how much it would have meant to you for him to make your lunch once in a while? Probably not. Or perhaps it was the "well she doesn't do it for me" syndrome. I know I fight this between my kids all the time.....she won't do that for him so he wont' do this for her, and neither is willing to be the first to give in....but if they would we KNOW as parents that the sibling fighting would stop. Parents are just big kids.

 

:grouphug:

[Oak Knoll Mom]

I really recommend For Women Only.

[ciyates]

I think Proverbs 31 has some wonderful examples of what a wife is suppose to be. When DH and I went through a rough patch I read the Power of a Praying wife. It helped a lot! :lol: You will be in our prayers.

 

God calls us all to do different thing at different times in our life. Maybe this is what your are being called to do to help your husband accomplish what he needs. Just a thought!

[Tami]

On a forum like this, I have not idea what all the dynamics are. I do know that both spouses are imperfect adn that both are likely needing help and healing. In a Christian marriage, we are called to love our very imperfect spouses. It can be a dangerous trap to be a wife always having to jump through hoops to try and EARN the other's love. Unhappily, I've seen that happen in a couple of cases, and it was heartbreaking to watch. The husband's demands only got greater and greater. I hope that this is not going on here, but I share my thoughts for what they are worth. This seems like a situation that needs much more than a book on submission. This marriage needs a touch from the Lord and the power of a hands-on, praying community. With God's help, we can make it!

Edited July 10, 2009 by Tami

[Rosie_0801]

You might enjoy reading Dr. Laura's books about husbands and marriage. I am not a submissive wife - but I have learned that my marriage is a lot better when I am a NICE wife.

 

 

:iagree: Not being in the least bit Christian, I thought it might be a good idea to read some of her books. Y'know, you don't have to like the source to accept their advice. Some of what she said gave me a pain in the belly, but some of it was quite sensible. :) Perhaps you would feel better about things like making lunches if you learn to own the task. When you can, bake muffins to add to the lunch box. Put racing car stickers in there, the sort of stuff you'd do for the kids for a laugh, he'll probably laugh too. My dh likes it if I bake and tell the kids I made them for Dad. That way he gets to be magnanimous and share, lol.

 

 

Rosie

Edited July 10, 2009 by Rosie_0801

[lilbean05]

It sounded to me more like this was something that meant a great deal to him, less because he wants her to make his food, more like, he wants her to WANT to make his food, iykwIm. I understand that completely, I want my dh to WANT to help me. Him helping makes me feel loved, I get the warm fuzzies whenever he picks up and puts things away.

 

Often, the things we point to as the root of the problem are really just a symptom. It sounds like he feels as though their living in separate spheres and the lunches are just one thing that he's lost. He wants her involved in his life, he wants her invested in his life.

 

Of course, I could be completely wrong :)

 

I agree with all of this completely. Moreover, it seems as though everyone's responses are focused on how YOU the OP can read and fix and change things, both actions and perspectives. While these are good ideas, I really really think that this isn't something that falls all on you. You are only half of the equation. Your husband needs to understand why you weren't interested in making lunches. He needs to embrace that as much as you need to embrace his desire to have you make them for him.

 

I agree with the poster who said that a marriage is 100/100, not 50/50. You both need to give 100%--if you are both giving 100% of yourself, it means that all you are doing is for the other person. You are giving your whole self to that other person, even at your own expense (and you will find that perhaps what God is laying on you is not to be SUBMISSIVE, but to give of your whole self and be happy doing it). If he does the same thing, both of your needs will be met. You happily make the lunch, and genuinely mean it. He knows you aren't thrilled about it, but you do it anyway and it gives it THAT much more meaning. Now you are both fulfilled.

 

One sort of example: Often, at night time after my husband has gone to bed, there are dishes in the sink that should be done before I turn in for the night. I could leave them there, but then who else will do it? My husband. If I don't do it, he will have to. Do I want him to have to do it? No, not all. I don't want to have my decision shoulder a burdon on him. So I do the dishes, even though it is one of my least favorite chores. Then I get a call the next day from my husband telling me, all on his own, thank you for doing those dishes! What can I pick up for you on the way home so that you don't have to go out today? And on his way home, he also stops at Keva Juice for a tasty treat for me. How thoughtful!

 

When you are in a disagreement, you BOTH need to understand that you are on the same team and you aren't arguing with each other, you are discussing a topic to come to a resolution together. Both of you are one one team and the problem at hand is the other team.

 

My biggest thing is, you both need to think like this. Having just you take on this "submissive" role will not solve anything.

[JVA]

I haven't read ALL of your replies but I can tell you that starting from scratch like you're doing - and I did- the book Love and Respect book and DVD series will really help you both. It changed our marriage and changed ME- I was the biggest problem as I have a sweetheart for a dh. It's easy to adopt the world's view of relationships and be hostile to men......disrespect is rampant. I urge you to find a class, borrow the DVDs from a local church or find somewhere that you can view them. I'll bet even your local library has the book. The author is truly inspired. I wish you the best and will be praying for you.:)

[Mom In Missouri]

First, a hug. You're right where many wives (including myself) have found themselves and we're here, as living proof that this is a plan and a purpose for your GOOD to go through this season in your own personal life and in your marriage. It is for good, not for your destruction, neither you or your husband.

 

Secondly, since you've already been given a laundry list of books for suggestions I won't give you another. There are a great number of books to read on the topic, but I would point you back to being very careful to read only those that align with God's character. Same thing goes with counseling...you'll be chasing your tail if the counselor isn't agreeable with your foundational beliefs.

 

Lastly and from first hand experience: Learning to be in a God-honoring, and remaining in a God-centered marriage is a process. It is a life-long committment to continue to purge and put on the directives and guidance as God shows you. It will not become a second honeymoon overnight, nor will it be drudgery forever. He will give you encouragement and support as you go forward. Some days will be great victories and others may be holding ground that you were victorious over together some time ago. May I decrease so that He (Christ) may increase.

 

I applaud you for coming here and being an example and encouragement to me and to others. You may never know the contagious effect that God will begin through you now and in the future. Thank you for the blessing of knowing *I* was not the only one...and that He is faithful to all those who are called for His purpose according to His will.

[JenniferB]

Eek, so many responses, not sure mine will get read all the way, but I sure hope you can find time to read it anyway.

 

I also have struggled GREATLY with being a submissive wife, and a humble person in general. I was raised by a single, strong willed, independent mom, who I love dearly, but who did not equip me for marriage, nor a marriage of submission to say the least. I was raised to do it all on my own, and not to trust anyone. This is a hard place to come from for a Christian wife. BUT, God is good, and God is gracious, and God is patient, and God is kind. He has been all these things with me, and with my husband's weaknesses. That is my background, now for my nitty gritty take on the reality of your situation.

 

If you have gone on in this fashion as an overbearing wife for many, many years you need not only God's work in your life, but your husband's patience, kindness, and help. If you can petition your husband to be a partner in your recovery from overbearingness, and of course you have God's help, and of course you already have the heart yourself, then you have got every chance in the world to make this change.

 

Based on my experience going through this transition, here is my advice to you. First you need to take it one day at a time - one victory at a time with a humble heart, and one failure at a time, with a quick apology and softened heart to follow each and every failure. You need to have super charged faith that God can and will work through your husband to lead the family. You also might expect your husband to go through a period of bitterness and loss as he begins to realize all the dreams he had that were dashed or thwarted by you. If you never dashed any dreams, as I have, he may just feel a loss for the years you spent together in disharmony. Just expect him to lash back or act out in bitterness or go through some depression as the reality of the past years comes into focus. You may have to snap him out of this, as I had to with my husband. We had many talks about what life would have been or could have been had I been more supportive to his ideas. I had many bitter weepings as I realized what decisions I pushed which ended in disaster. I had many bitter weepings as I realized that my husband had one particular life goal, which I did not support. It came down to me apologizing profusely for each of those things specifically, and him realizing that he also had a part in agreeing with my ideas, and setting his own aside. To get to this point was about a 2 year process. For 2 years I made every effort of my being to support him, respect him, build him up, drop everything of myself, and take up everything that he loved, to the best of my human, fallible, abilities. When we got to what I call the bitterness stage we had the last two years to look back upon of my efforts to support, respect, and please him. He could finally trust me that I was on his team, and not on my own team. It was then that the bitterness came out, and was weeded out of him. Recently we have gotten to a safe enough place with each other, that I can talk about my needs again, and I can get some support without being a nag. I have to be careful not to revert back to that snappy, *****y, irritated wife, because we are both comfortable with each other now, and it's more of a give and a take as it should be, with him as the head, and me as the supporter.

 

I know this is already super long, but I have one more piece of advice. Pleeeeeaaaaase reconsider reading the Love Languages book at this stage in your transition. Wait until a later time - if at all. This book will help you to identify your love language, and your husband's love language. After discovering your love language, you may be tempted to dwell upon, "how is my love language being met?". Where are my "words of encouragement", or "acts of service", etc. etc. This can be poison to a wife who is trying very hard to overcome her own selfish desires, and meet her husband's needs for a change. To know your husband's love language might be helpful, but you probably can't help but think about your own at this stage. You already know he likes you to make his lunch, and you can bet he would like other things like that, which remind him of your love for him while he's at work. At this stage you need to be all about him, until you can get to that comfortable place where he can FULLY trust you and your desire to be his supporter.

 

OK, I know this is a huge book of a reply, I'm sorry, but I had a lot to say about this topic. I love to be a help, if I can, to a wife who desires to "come under" her husband. God bless your journey, and God give your husband grace and patience as HE works this all out. :grouphug:

[Georgiana Daniels]

I. Have. So. Been. There. :grouphug:

 

In addition to the other great book suggestions, I recommend The Politically Incorrect Wife, by Nancy Cobb and Connie Gribsby. There's one segment entitled "Submission Requires Strength."

[MamaT]

From another wife who has been there. I am very strong willed and when I grew up, my mother ruled the roost. Our first few years were a power struggle. When God started speaking to my heart about being submissive, he placed a Mennonite woman in my life. Her physical head covering reminded her every minute of every day to be submissive to her husband. She wasn't a weak mealy-mouth person either. She was just very comfortable in her place and did not try to take his.

 

I am so thankful that she was my friend during this time. I learned to love and serve my husband in a whole new way. It was a relief actually. I am very attentive to his needs and he is very attentive to mine - but we have had to work on that. It has been a process that has lasted years.

 

I don't think we would have made it this far without my learning that lesson. We will be married 28 years in September and are happier than we have ever been.

 

I will be praying for you and your family.

[creekmom]

I highly recommend reading Created to be his Help Meet by Debi Pearl. I’m quoting a portion of the book that spoke volumes to me when I read it. It is a letter from a woman who realized a little too late that she had been a foolish wife…

“The things I did or failed to do were not everyday, constantly overt, in-the-face actions. They were subtle, ebbing and flowing , but there, nonetheless.

-When my husband acted selfishly at home, allowed his temper to flare, and sometimes said curse words, and then went to church and acted spiritual, I wish I had prayed positively for him instead of withdrawing a little emotionally from him and letting my cynicism and lack of confidence in him be so manifest. I wish I had openly showed love and acceptance of him for himself, not impatiently waited until he acted right.

-When he failed the children, failed to have devotions, failed to be spiritual, failed to lead as he should, I wish I had completely trusted God and maintained unity, honor, reverence, and submission with a glad and trusting heart. I wish I had kept the children honoring him and praying for their dad instead of allowing my martyred attitude to manifest itself so openly.

-When he tried to make up to me for some failure, I wish I had not been so cool, waiting for him to “suffer†a little more and be more intense and sincere about his apology.

-When he spent money I thought we didn’t have, I wish I had remained quiet and trusted God. I wish I had shown continued confidence in him, regardless of his decisions.

-When he wanted me to do something, and I didn’t want to do it, I wish I had cheerfully complied instead of making him sorry he asked. Hardheadedness is not a trait to endear any woman to a man.

-When he needed a woman to believe in him, admire him, approve of him, accept him, regardless of his failures, I wish now that I had been the one to give him those things.

-When I thought that keeping his faults before him – just small things he did and said- and keeping myself a little standoffish in my approval of him, was the only way he would change, I wish someone would have taken me aside and told me how badly mistaken I was to think that it was my place to apply and keep the pressure on.

-When we were in the company of his family and our friends, I wish I had not taken on a martyred air when he left to go off and do something on his own.

-When he did not know how to show love, and I felt a void emotionally, I wish I had borne all things and hoped all things, and loved him unconditionally, instead of giving up inside and turning to friends and family for my emotional support and needs. I never saw the need to endear myself to him. I took for granted that he would fulfill the husband’s moral obligation to love me. …

Time passed. The marriage strangled to death from the load of mistakes, sin, and selfishness on the part of both of us. One day, to my shock and surprise, he just left. The children and I were plunged into near poverty. He no longer felt the natural desire to protect and support his family. I received the minimum child support. It was never enough….Some of you don’t believe this could happen to you. In fact, you may well be thinking that it would be a relief if you could get him out of the house. You think, “Well, I’m healthy and strong. I’m emotionally secure. I can handle it. I am pretty and will find a good man. I have family who will help me. I have a good church to support me, and could get counseling, etc. … These are all the things that foolish wives may think. But I know better. My experience, as well as thousands of others, proves this outlook to be a lie.

Carolynâ€

I’m sorry it was so long- but it was powerful!!

One more excellent quote from the book, “Wisdom is knowing what you “bought†when you married that man and learning to adapt to him as he is, not as you want him to be.â€

[OnTheBrink]

I agree with all of this completely. Moreover, it seems as though everyone's responses are focused on how YOU the OP can read and fix and change things, both actions and perspectives. While these are good ideas, I really really think that this isn't something that falls all on you. You are only half of the equation. Your husband needs to understand why you weren't interested in making lunches. He needs to embrace that as much as you need to embrace his desire to have you make them for him.

 

 

 

Yes, but she can only control what she does and how she reacts and behaves. She can't control her dh. If her dh posted, I'm sure there would be a myriad of suggestions for him! ;)

 

Anyway, something's gotta give, as they say. Hopefully, with the OP making some small changes, it'll open up her dh to responding in kind and with communication and working together, the marriage will improve.

 

If her dh doesn't change or refuses counseling, then that's a horse of another color. I was in the kind of marriage where, no matter what I did to change things, HE didn't want to fix anything, as he was already gone, so to speak. So, my attempts were futile. I truly hope the OP's marriage and dh aren't in the same place and they can reconcile their differences and move on together. :)

[MOM24WONDERS]

You've gotten some GREAT advice and references for books - especially the Excellent Wife by Martha Peace. I also really enjoyed, have taught, and read/recommended many, many times Created to be His Helpmeet by Debi Pearl. A lot of people don't like her (or her family, which I do like ;), but she is full of wisdom. I don't agree 100% with everything in her book, but when I swallow MY pride, I find that most all of it is digestible - and good for me. A word of caution for the faint-hearted, though - she cuts no corners and beats around no bush - she tells it straight-forward, just as it is. I like that a LOT, but some don't...so there's your warning label.

 

I was brought up this way, so it's not foreign to me in the least - but that doesn't mean it's easy. I don't think it will EVER be easy or that it's supposed to be. It's an exercise in dying to self and learning to live for GOD instead of self.

 

I have said a prayer for you and your family. Keep following God and you'll find that place.

 

P.S. Another great book I just thought of is Passionate Housewives, Desperate for God (you can get it at most Christian book retailers and also from www.visionforum.com). I love that book!!!

[Audrey]

Gary Campbell's The Five Love Languages is also a good read (for both of you).

 

 

I am not one to go to a book for relationship advice, but even I will say that "The Five Love Languages" is a worthwhile read. I read it for a book group and was glad I did.

 

It was then that I truly understood that every oil change, gas fill-up, car washing, was dh's way of saying "I love you and I want you to be safe and comfortable."

[Cheryl in NM]

I have also struggled with being a submissive wife. I was not raised in that kind of home. My mother was very verbally abusive to my father and treated him like he was stupid. When she told me they were getting divorced, I thought "finally,that poor man, why didn't you do it years ago?". I swore I would never treat anyone that way. Well, what happens when we say never? I'm ashamed to say I treated Dh this way before we were married and he was crazy enough to marry me. I escalated for years. Finally, about 5 years ago, the Lord guided me to submission and love for my husband. I wasn't even an active Christian, I wasn't even sure there was someone up there at all, even though I'd been raised in church. I realized that I loved my husband and that he was a good man and I was lucky to have him. I thought about the other men I had dated and how they would have tolerated my rants, ragings and mood swings. I had also been listening to Dr. Laura for a few years (Dh introduced me to her radio show). I agreed with her on child rearing, but thought she was nuts regarding men. But it seemed that overnight my heart changed. I realized that I was taking my husband's repsect away from him. I can still see the look of hurt on his face when I would lash out. He's not wimpy at all, but I hurt him deeply. He's a very happy go lucky, laid back kind of guy and I was killing that in him. It broke my heart when I realized I was the cause of it. I decided that when I didn't agree with him I would keep my mouth shut about it, unless I had a very valid reason and it concerned a major money issue or someone's safety or health. I also decided that even if I thought an idea of his was stupid, I would support it. I knew I needed to trust him. It was truly a heart change for me. There were times when it was difficult to not argue, but for the most part I felt an overwhelming sense of peace when I behaved nicely. It took him over a year to begin to understand that I was seriously changing my behavior. It was hard to let it go when he didn't believe that I was sincere. Now we have the best marriage. I'm so happy. But it took hard work, love, patience, acceptance and time.

 

BTW, Dh has a list of things in his mind that he's sorry for and feels lucky that I stayed with him over. Once I realized this things were easier also. It meant that I wasn't quite as bad as I thought. That I was just *gulp* human.

 

I read Dr. Laura's book The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands. I admit, I scoffed my way through parts of it. I re-read parts later on and some of it came back to me when I was ready to accept the truth in it.

 

I guess what I want you to take from my experience is to give yourself time. Be patient and keep plugging along because it WILL pay off. Your husband loves you, he deserves your respect. Just find every little tiny thing to respect him about. Make sure he knows. I try to remember to let Dh know how glad I am that he holds down a job to provide for us. I also thank God everyday for Dh's ability to provide for us and I pray for him to receive guidance in being head of our family. Just make little changes; don't overwhelm yourself. And be patient with your dh; he might not understand that you are sincere at first. The best bonus is that your Dh will start returning the respect, love and kindness. Men may seem all tough, but they really need our love and understanding. They are so vulnerable to their wives. It breaks my heart to know I hurt him and I'm so glad he's forgiven me.

 

Good luck and God bless!

[BalanceSeeker]

Another vote for watching the movie Fireproof together. Dh and I were in tears and very motivated to make changes after we saw it.

 

God can restore your marriage!

[lionfamily1999]

When you are in a disagreement, you BOTH need to understand that you are on the same team and you aren't arguing with each other, you are discussing a topic to come to a resolution together. Both of you are one one team and the problem at hand is the other team.

 

That is something I want/need/will remember and I'll share it with dh once him and the boys are done playing video games :tongue_smilie:

 

One thing, though. She can't change her husband. She can lead by example, she can talk and everything else, but if there's one thing I've learned, it's easier to work on yourself first, if only because you are the only person you can expect to control.

[Peek a Boo]

She can't change her husband. She can lead by example, she can talk and everything else, but if there's one thing I've learned, it's easier to work on yourself first, if only because you are the only person you can expect to control.

 

This is sooo true.

 

I was on the other side [filed for divorce] but I can say that since dh has done a HUGE 180* turn around that it is much easier to work on my own faults now that they aren't overshadowed by a wall of blinding rage. we're nowhere near perfect yet, but getting there ;)

[lionfamily1999]

This is sooo true.

 

I was on the other side [filed for divorce] but I can say that since dh has done a HUGE 180* turn around that it is much easier to work on my own faults now that they aren't overshadowed by a wall of blinding rage. we're nowhere near perfect yet, but getting there ;)

That's such a hard thing to work past. Augh, our worst year was due in large part to my harboring so much resentment. I had to learn how to tell him how I was feeling, which is something I still have difficulty with.

 

That's where my, Friday evening turn the page, came from. Otherwise, it all just builds up until I'm a seething mountain of bitterness and by then, all the reasons have become this gray wall of 'just because.'

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

[SherryTX]

That is something I want/need/will remember and I'll share it with dh once him and the boys are done playing video games :tongue_smilie:

 

One thing, though. She can't change her husband. She can lead by example, she can talk and everything else, but if there's one thing I've learned, it's easier to work on yourself first, if only because you are the only person you can expect to control.

 

I think this is important to keep in mind, regardless of one's intepretation of "submission" (which, according to most people's definitions here, I am not, nor would ever want to be considered "submissive". Cooperative, yes!).

 

Even if things do end up going south and you end up getting divorced (which I very much hope does not happen, as you have stated you want to save your marriage), you will not only know you did everything you could to do your part to save the marriage, but you may come out a stronger person in the end. (I am referring to taking care of things you and your husband have agreed are your responsibility).

 

Right now, I have struggled with almost the same thing. I wouldn't call it a not being submissive thing - but just making sure I am keeping up my end of the bargain. My husband works full time, and while he doesn't do a great deal around the house in terms of regular house work, he does do a lot of major repairs. He is responsible for all the car work, home repair (for the most part) and all computer repair. He also usually takes care of the yard work. This isn't because it is guy stuff, but because he enjoys it, and is better at it. However, I will pitch in those areas when necessary as well.

 

Because I haven't been working (and when I was, mostly from home), pretty much the cleaning, cooking, etc., falls on me. And I hate most of it. And I am not particularly good at it - and I have to be honest and say I have been slacking big time the past few months because I have been so frustrated (job search, external family member problems I got sucked into, and sickness).

 

For us as a couple, it isn't a submissive issue. It is one of a partnership, and each person caring their load as agreed. When we are both working, he does cook every once in a while, and often he will at least do his own laundry. We do sometimes have to get after each other if things are getting out of hand.

 

I can tell you when one of us is slacking, it makes life hard not just for the marriage but on the whole family. But even though you can lead by example - even if you do 100% everything right according to how "submissive" or cooperative you feel is justified and he is not examining what he needs to do in order to make the marriage work, you need to re-examine if the marriage is worth keeping.

 

Good luck, Impish! I hope things work out for you and your husband.

[Melissa in St Louis]

Good for you for following where you feel He is leading you. It is so hard sometimes, isn't it? :grouphug:

 

Something I did years ago was give my hubby a page numbered 1-5 and asked him to list the things that I could do to be the biggest help to him. A few of the answers were things that I had no idea were an issue. Others were expected. Like the laundry. :tongue_smilie: It was helpful to at least KNOW what he needed from me, kwim? It is great that you already know about the lunch issue and that you were sweet/strong enough to jump out of bed the other night and make the lunch! It seems that really blessed him, especially if he was talking buddies at work about it. :001_smile: I love what Rose said about OWNING the lunch...putting in cute notes, treats, etc. ROCK that lunch! :lol: For some reason, lunches are important to him!

 

Kudos to you for adopting this attitude. It takes great strength!!!!