High b/p - suggestions?

[Eos]

My blood pressure has been much higher than usual for the last few months, and actually was 140 over 100 at the dentist a few days ago - yes, I know, dentist chair problem but this is way way higher than I've ever been.  My normal is around 117/70.  The only way I've known it was high was a reading at the dentist last fall (I think it was 130/80) then on my trip to my mother's house I used her home monitoring device a few times and it was consistently high like 120/90, 129/89. This seems very weird.  My BMI is 22, I don't smoke, I exercise regularly, I don't drink more than a glass of wine every few weeks., I eat lots and lots of veggies and all kinds of high-fiber foods, very little sugar and carb.  The only thing I can see that's different between this year and last is that I had covid in June and I have read that can change b/p.  I go for my yearly physical next week and I don't know what she'll suggest.  I love my FNP but our local practitioners are not very good. Have any Boardies had good results with self-treatment (weight loss, sodium restriction) or is medication the only path?  Thank you for any input, I am mystified.

[Melissa in Australia]

DH has a couple of friends who have had to give up coffee because it was causing their high blood pressure

[Eos]

3 minutes ago, Melissa in Australia said:

DH has a couple of friends who have had to give up coffee because it was causing their high blood pressure

Huh.  That checks out (sips coffee).  Did them giving it up help lower it?

[Melissa in Australia]

yes 2 different people, they both no longer have any coffee and their blood pressure is within normal 

[Katy]

Here’s a Reddit post from a couple days ago that’s pretty good.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Biohackers/s/X4vUjwGxLl

[prairiewindmomma]

3 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

DH has a couple of friends who have had to give up coffee because it was causing their high blood pressure

This is me. I was fine until I wasn’t. It was like a switch. I have a full 20-30 point systolic bump with caffeine. I do still need bp meds. It’s genetic….around age 50 my family just needs them. https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/genetics-blood-pressure

Dh took a baby dose of meds and was able to get off them by going strict keto and upping his running mileage to about 5 miles a day. His bp is tied to sleep quality….and the very tight blood sugar numbers and running help his stress levels and sleep. 
 

My best advice is to chart your numbers three times a day and look at the trends. We each made insights this way.

[prairiewindmomma]

Dh and I do do 2-9 of Katy’s list. He actually went too low on sodium and had to add back. We don’t do much processed food anyway. Again—just track it and see.

[73349]

One of the biggest sources of salt in Americans' diets is chicken, so you might swap some of it out (e.g., with no-salt-added chickpeas) and see if that helps.

[Toocrazy!!]

I tend to being slightly dehydrated a lot and that will affect my numbers.

It’s very rarely taken correctly at drs offices. They talk to you and expect you to answer, your arm is just hanging. Getting a home monitor and properly testing a couple times a day will help you see your real numbers. 

[Ali in OR]

As I was reading your post I was wondering if you had had Covid and then you answered that. I had my first ever high bp reading when I was at the doctor for something else about 3 weeks after I had Covid. It was high enough that he told me to come back in 3 weeks and re-measure. High again, but that was also an extremely stressful seizure day with my dd. They suggested I buy a bp monitor and I kept track for a couple of months and after the first few days, my numbers were consistently ok (not as low as they once were, but in the range of normal). My own hypothesis is that Covid raised my bp for a few months. And incidentally, they were worried if the first number was in the 130's. I'm thinking your 120/90 is fine.

Dh had some high readings and has brought them back to normal by dropping 10-15 pounds and eating a lot more plants. He's had to track sodium before for inner ear issues, so we already kind of do that and know that the biggest difference is not eating out.

[Katy]

54 minutes ago, 73349 said:

One of the biggest sources of salt in Americans' diets is chicken, so you might swap some of it out (e.g., with no-salt-added chickpeas) and see if that helps.

That’s a really good idea, and not just because of salt, but the potassium in beans also helps. 

[Miss Tick]

1 hour ago, 73349 said:

One of the biggest sources of salt in Americans' diets is chicken, so you might swap some of it out (e.g., with no-salt-added chickpeas) and see if that helps.

Do you (or anyone) know why this is? Is it added salt to dishes with chicken, or something about chicken itself that is high in salt?

[73349]

57 minutes ago, Miss Tick said:

Do you (or anyone) know why this is? Is it added salt to dishes with chicken, or something about chicken itself that is high in salt?

Quote

[C]hicken, even before you put anything on it, is often injected with saltwater solutions during processing, making it a hidden source of sodium. In fact, chicken sits eighth on the CDC’s list of top 10 sources of sodium. One 4 oz boneless, skinless chicken breast can contain anywhere from 40 mg to 330 mg of sodium. Check the label: The sodium content should be 70 mg a serving or less.

https://www.healthcentral.com/slideshow/foods-to-avoid-with-high-blood-pressure

[Miss Tick]

🤦🏼‍♀️ Of course! I forgot about the flavoring injections.

[dsmith]

I've had some success with CoQ10 and magnesium. I need to lose weight that I've gained since Covid, though. A 10 pound gain really spikes my blood pressure! I've had to give up caffeine due to palpitations, but I did see a small drop after I did. Salt is a big one for me. I tend to hold a lot of water when I have too much salt. One day of salty foods usually results in a 2 - 4 pound weight gain the next day and a big jump in bp. 

[KSera]

Salt makes a difference for me, but in order to see that difference I have to eat so low salt that I don’t get enough calories in. So that wasn’t sustainable for me. Potatoes and celery are both foods that can lower bp. I don’t recommend the idea of losing weight when you’re already a healthy weight. That’s asking for trouble. Dropping all caffeine would be my first step if I were you (sorry). 

[Calm37]

11 minutes ago, dsmith said:

I've had some success with CoQ10 and magnesium. I need to lose weight that I've gained since Covid, though. A 10 pound gain really spikes my blood pressure! I've had to give up caffeine due to palpitations, but I did see a small drop after I did. Salt is a big one for me. I tend to hold a lot of water when I have too much salt. One day of salty foods usually results in a 2 - 4 pound weight gain the next day and a big jump in bp. 

I also noticed a drop when I was using CoQ10, but it affected my sleep. Worth a try! I "need" my two cups of coffee each morning, but switched to 1/2 caff to make it officially just one cup of caffeine. 🙂

 

[regentrude]

9 minutes ago, KSera said:

Salt makes a difference for me, but in order to see that difference I have to eat so low salt that I don’t get enough calories in. 

I am confused. Salt doesn't  have calories. How has low salt anything to do with calories?

[Condessa]

I have always had bp problems with pregnancy, but after my last pregnancy, for the first time, it didn't go back to normal on its own.  It was super frustrating to search for suggestions to improve my bp with lifestyle changes and find things that I mostly already exceeded--I have never drunk alcohol or caffeine, already had fruits and vegetables several times a day, rarely had junk food, already exercised around 4-5 days per week, had already lost 15 pounds beyond the net weight loss I had from an extremely difficult pregnancy.  With much searching, I did eventually find some suggestions that I could implement, and was able to successfully bring my bp down without medication.

• intense, sustained exercise at least 3 times a week-instead of doing a 5 mile walk or a 20 minute jog on most weekdays, I went for 45+ minute runs every other day after finding a study about the greater benefits of intense, sustained exercise for bp
• magnesium supplements
• potassium-ate a banana each day
• dark chocolate-a little square of very dark chocolate each day
• leafy greens-not just having vegetables several times a day, but having 3-4 servings of leafy greens each day

Edited January 5 by Condessa

[KSera]

46 minutes ago, regentrude said:

I am confused. Salt doesn't  have calories. How has low salt anything to do with calories?

lol, I see your confusion. It's completely possible for someone to eat ultra low salt and still get sufficient calories, it was just something that I personally had a difficult time implementing. I found it hard to eat enough low sodium foods to meet my calorie requirements. I'm sure lots of people would do just fine with it, but I found myself skipping meals when I couldn't find something good to eat without too much sodium. For example, even a sandwich was hard for me to make and stay within my sodium window--I could only use one piece of bread, and the only cheese that was low enough sodium was swiss (which I used, but really don't care for, so the single bread sandwich with swiss cheese just wasn't appealing and was a lot lower calorie than the kind of sandwich I would otherwise haven eaten). Definitely a me problem, I was just mentioning that for myself it had to be ultra low sodium (the 2400 mg/day level didn't do anything for me, I had to keep it under 1200mg/day).

[kbutton]

Hormones can change BP. Every time I was on birth control pills, my BP would rise (I had quite low BP to start with, so no one cared). 

A history of preeclampsia is a risk factor for hypertension.

Just some factors that no one wanted to discuss with me as my BP crept up and up after my second pregnancy.

High cortisol is also something that can make it go up. 

I hope you can find a fix that isn’t onerous. 

[ktgrok]

This will sound crazy, but mine went down when I started doing art regularly! I did NOT do arts and crafts in an effort to reduce blood pressure, just cause I wanted to do them. But it absolutely lowered my blood pressure. I have since heard this is a real thing! I thought I was looking at going on meds, but after I started painting (using the Donna Dewberry One Stroke videos on youtube for free) and then quilting, it totally went back down to normal after a year of being elevated. 

I mentioned it recently to someone and she said that there is something called neurogenic art that is specifically known to do this, but that any art can do it. 

So, worth a try?

[ktgrok]

Oh, I did later add in magnesium (for sleep and muscle issues) and that seems to maybe help as well, but I've been doing that off and on for years now. The big change was doing some kind of art/craft a few times a week at least. 

[Terabith]

2 Tablespoons of Flax seeds can help too. 

[PeterPan]

Did you follow through and log your BP to see if it's staying that high? You can have a one off with a reading like that. Even with your mom's, it seems a little odd. 

Supposedly niacin helps.

Edited January 5 by PeterPan

[dsmith]

1 hour ago, Terabith said:

2 Tablespoons of Flax seeds can help too. 

Yes! I forgot to mention this. I add 2 tbsp to my oatmeal or smoothie most mornings. I think beets are supposed to be good also, and hibiscus tea. I love beets but I don't like hibiscus tea.  I think nutritionfacts.org has a few videos on bp, which is probably where I heard about hibiscus tea. 

[gardenmom5]

Yoga can lower BP

6 Yoga Poses for High Blood Pressure - Yoga Journal

 

 

[Eos]

Thank you to all for excellent and concrete suggestions.  Today I bought some aged garlic capsules, some hibiscus flowers, and vowed to cut my coffee -tomorrow!! - and will also cut way back on salt.  I do love me some Malden's sea salt.

4 hours ago, ktgrok said:

doing art regularly! I did NOT do arts and crafts in an effort to reduce blood pressure, just cause I wanted to do them. But it absolutely lowered my blood pressure. I have since heard this is a real thing!

LOVE THIS

9 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

chart your numbers three times a day and look at the trends.

I forgot to get a cuff today but will get one tomorrow and plan to do this.  

[Eos]

5 hours ago, Condessa said:

• intense, sustained exercise at least 3 times a week-instead of doing a 5 mile walk or a 20 minute jog on most weekdays, I went for 45+ minute runs every other day after finding a study about the greater benefits of intense, sustained exercise for bp
• magnesium supplements
• potassium-ate a banana each day
• dark chocolate-a little square of very dark chocolate each day
• leafy greens-not just having vegetables several times a day, but having 3-4 servings of leafy greens each day

Also planning these, thank you.

 

Edited January 5 by Eos

[Eos]

22 hours ago, PeterPan said:

Did you follow through and log your BP to see if it's staying that high? You can have a one off with a reading like that. Even with your mom's, it seems a little odd. 

 

Got a cuff today and the first reading was 148 over 115!  The heck?  Took it a few minutes later and it was 129 over 94, still bad but not quite as shocking.  Today I've had only one cup of coffee (on my withdrawal tapering plan) and 2 cups of hibiscus tea, some fish oils, garlic pills, magnesium, half a banana, and no salt.  I'm feeling a little weirded out, honestly, to go for a real hike so will do a brisk walk instead.  This is really kinda blowing my mind.  

Edited January 6 by Eos

[prairiewindmomma]

It really was like an overnight flip for me. Historically I had low blood pressure issues..like 90/60 was my normal.

Hope you can get sorted out soon.

Edited January 6 by prairiewindmomma

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, Eos said:

Took it a few minutes later and it was

Covid can mess with the autonomic nervous system. If your bp keeps jumping around, I would assume it's something more like that rather than just oh my bp now runs higher. I was doing HBOT (for other reasons) when covid broke out, and I can tell you there were people going in for that who had success. It might be something you need to approach a different way rather than as a straightforward high bp situation. I'm not completely sure why the HBOT was helping. It's a lot of oxygen obviously and it was being done at a medical clinic with medical supervision. Sometimes people do HBOT at home or with chiropractors or spas using sort of low HBOT devices. That's not what this was. And the people saw enough results pretty quickly that they knew they were on the right track.

So whether you want HBOT or something else, maybe think about what is going on in your nervous system rather than just the bp. 

[KSera]

1 hour ago, Eos said:

Got a cuff today and the first reading was 148 over 115!  The heck?  Took it a few minutes later and it was 129 over 94, still bad but not quite as shocking.  Today I've had only one cup of coffee (on my withdrawal tapering plan) and 2 cups of hibiscus tea, some fish oils, garlic pills, magnesium, half a banana, and no salt.  I'm feeling a little weirded out, honestly, to go for a real hike so will do a brisk walk instead.  This is really kinda blowing my mind.  

How long had you been sitting down when you took the first reading? If you took it when you first sat down and then the second reading after resting there for a bit, that amount of variability wouldn’t be too unusual to me. You’re aware of arm positioning and not crossing your legs at all and all that when you take a reading? (Arm above or below heart level makes a significant difference in my readings.) Your second reading isn’t a level you would want to stay permanently at, for the sake of your organs over the long term, but it might relieve some anxiety to know that that’s a level where it’s not an immediate risk. The first reading is more concerning, and I’d be considering starting a medication if those kept happening, with the hope of lifestyle changes allowing weaning off of it.

[Eos]

8 minutes ago, KSera said:

If you took it when you first sat down and then the second reading after resting there for a bit, that amount of variability wouldn’t be too unusual to me. You’re aware of arm positioning and not crossing your legs at all and all that when

Yes, I had just sat down for the first and yes again after resting a bit.  Next I took a walk, laid down for an hour and took it while still in bed and it was 120/70 - I know that was just lying down but I was glad to see the variability.  I'll just start taking it on a regular schedule and charting it to watch the trend.  I go see my FNP next week and will see what she says.

 

35 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

HBOT at home or with chiropractors or spas using sort of low HBOT devices.

I don't know anything about this but will look it up, thanks.

[Condessa]

My doctor told me that for a bp reading to be accurate, I need to sit for 10 minutes before taking it.  She isn't concerned at all about higher readings that are taken without this period first, only if they are elevated after resting.

[Pawz4me]

On 1/5/2024 at 8:12 AM, prairiewindmomma said:

This is me. I was fine until I wasn’t. It was like a switch.

I know someone who had the same experience. She made it until 80 with no BP issues at all and then . . . boom. Seemingly out of the blue she needed multiple medications to control it.

[Ali in OR]

For taking readings, also feet flat on floor, back supported, and it's possible to take it wrong with the cuff on the wrong arm. My NP was showing me how the cables should be on the front/inside of my arm, not on the "far" side.

[bolt.]

My bp started to read borderline-high about 2.5y ago (?) (during the lockdowns phase of the pandemic). I had multiple stressful situations going on, I was eating for convenience, using pain killers and caffeine freely, etc. So the doctor initially advised lifestyle changes.

My doc advised me to lower my sodium to about 1200mg per day. I was mostly successful with that, but my readings remained in the concerning range. I found it really hard to be calm for a reading, because, internally I just knew it was an important reading, and I was stressing about trying to keep calm! It was hard to know what the readings were and were not telling us.

Lately, she put me on a small dose of meds and told me I could eat normally again. I can't tell you what a relief that was!!! Watching sodium takes so much of the pleasure and ease out of eating. After I got over the irrational feeling that I had 'failed' I've been really happy to be medicated instead.

My advice is don't give too much of yourself to fix-it strategies that make you feel bad about yourself, or make your life hard. It's fine to try a DIY path for a little while, but my doc and I overdid that phase of things. The meds are safe and widely used. I wish they had been offered sooner.

[Eos]

2 hours ago, bolt. said:

It's fine to try a DIY path for a little while, but my doc and I overdid that phase of things.

Thanks, I hear this.  I see her next week and I think maybe I would give it three months to see improvement and/or normalcy, or sooner if it gets worse.  

[PeterPan]

3 hours ago, bolt. said:

and I was stressing about trying to keep calm! It was hard to know what the readings were and were not telling us.

 

This happens with my dad too. They actually don't want him to take it too much because it just amps his anxiety about it, making it go up higher. 

Maybe you could do something rational like take it three days in a row in the same, consistent way but NOT LOOK.  Just have the person helping you write it down, log it, and after 3-5 days of that call it good. Then take that to your doctor and let them sort it out. 

[BeachGal]

One more thought to add to everything else is the possibility of insulin resistance which can go undetected for years and even decades. Blood glucose levels can be in the normal range while insulin is high, at least for a period of time. Benjamin Bikman, who researches insulin, has mentioned that when insulin spikes, blood pressure will also spike. He discusses this in his book Why We Get Sick. It is eye opening how excess insulin is so insidiously damaging. Both diet and lifestyle affect insulin. For example, getting enough good quality sleep or having enough muscle mass will help to prevent episodes of hyperinsulinemia as well as understanding how your diet affects you.

Tracking your diet for awhile and learning how much potassium and magnesium you’re eating could help, too. Most people tend to be deficient in a few things often for years, which could affect their health eventually. The free version of Cronometer allows you to track.

You might also want to order an omega-3 index test from a place like OmegaQuant. Life Extension sells their test as well, sometimes discounted. It’s a simple finger prick test that you do yourself, send back in and then they post your results online. Your cell membranes are made up of fats and if you have too much omega 6 fat, they will not operate efficiently. It’s easy to get more omega 3s by taking a good quality fish oil such as Carlson’s Very Finest Fish Oil.

Edited January 7 by BeachGal

[PeterPan]

Btw, @Eos how is your iron? I didn't realize my iron was dropping each time I've had covid. It's a known issue with iron deficiency after covid, and iron can apparently affect blood pressure and heart regularity. I had been posting on here about my heart doing weird things and it has mostly calmed down since I got on some iron. I got my iron up so high I actually had to back off! Now I just take iron a couple days a week and eat red meat once a week to keep it (hopefully) in check. 

My doc had kind of blown me off on the iron thing. He just kept saying I didn't have *anemia* but you can be deficient and symptomatic before you get to anemia. My MCHC (mean corpuscular hemoglobin concentration) was low which indicates the iron is low. I got improvement within a day or two of starting the iron. So I had bloodwork with a very low MCHC pointing to low iron, too iron and within a couple days began having symptomatic improvement. So it would be another thing to look into. I take the iron with C, sublingual b12, and a single capsule of a nasty bovine liver supplement to get the other trace minerals (copper, etc) needed for absorption. With that combo I was pretty successful at getting it up and getting my heart rate to stabilize. I never take my blood pressure at home so I have no clue if it had been affected. I've had covid I think 5 times now, sigh, so I had lots of experience with the dragged out ,multi-month recovery. I'm kind of horrified to realize that for *me* it was due to low iron that was so easily treatable. 

Edited January 7 by PeterPan

[KSera]

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

I got my iron up so high I actually had to back off!

How much did your iron raise (and do you mean your hemoglobin or ferritin or iron saturation or ?) and what supplement were you taking that made it rise that much that quickly? I haven't found one that works that quickly yet, despite reading and trying lot of the suggestions from various anemia groups and the iron protocol group.

[KSera]

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

Btw, @Eos how is your iron? I didn't realize my iron was dropping each time I've had covid.

Also want to add that iron can go either way post covid. Some people end up with super high ferritin levels post covid, so definitely good for people to have it tested before deciding to supplement. Some people use lactoferrin to either raise or lower ferritin when dealing with post covid conditions, but I haven't yet seen anything definitive about whether it's a good idea or not.

[Eos]

8 hours ago, PeterPan said:

how is your iron?

I don't know but my I'll ask my FNP to check it, my cholesterol, and my thyroid next week.  I don't feel tired or dizzy, but I know people can have different symptoms.  I do eat a lot of iron-happy foods plus lemon juice on most greens.

[Eos]

9 hours ago, BeachGal said:

insulin resistance

How does one measure this?

[BeachGal]

If your MD will not test or doesn’t think it’s worth testing, you can order a lab test yourself from an online place like walkinlabs. You choose the test(s) you want, pay online and then either schedule with or walk in to the facility (I go to a local hospital) and they will take blood, etc. Results are later posted on your account online.

Ideally, you’d want to get both fasting insulin and fasting glucose tests done at the same time. This would allow you to calculate your HOMA score (homeostatic model assessment).

Ideally, your blood insulin level should be less than 6 microunits per milileter.

To calculate HOMA: [glucose (mg/dL) x insulin (µU/mL)] / 405.  Over 1.5 indicates insulin resistance. Over 3 is borderline diabetes type 2.

Bikman goes on to say that some people may need to do more testing that involves drinking glucose and getting blood drawn every 30” over 2 hours to see what your insulin (not glucose) is doing. His book explains how to read those results.

 

Quick test: triglycerides / hdl. 1.5 or less is good.

Skin tags are seen with insulin resistance. Dark skin around neck or armpits also seen withinsulin resistance.

[mmasc]

Do you know if a parent has high bp? Like you, I was completely mystified when I found out my bp was high. I had actually made changes to my exercise and diet that year and was literally in the best shape of my adult life. Healthy weight, healthy diet, exercise 5X a week, only one cup of coffee a day, no smoking/drinking. It was crazy! I discovered it at an eye exam. The nurse used one of those (crappy) finger bp things and the reading was so high it would’ve been “go to the er” level, so she was like that’s not right. Called the eye doctor in and she told me that I should just go to a pharmacy and check it on one their machines. Did that, still high. Like you, it was the bottom number that was the high one. Mostly hovering around 100-105. Made an appt with my doctor, she had me check it at home at various times of the day and also come in 3X a week to check it in office. After 2 weeks of high readings (a few normal mixed in, but too many highs), she put me on a very low dose of medicine. I was pretty bummed about it, but she said since my mom and dad had high bp that it was most likely hereditary and I couldn’t change that. YMMV, but that’s my story of being shocked I had high bp 🙂

[Eos]

44 minutes ago, mmasc said:

Do you know if a parent has high bp?

Yup, this is my whole family though I'm unsure what age.  I'll ask my mother.  We have an unbroken line of heart disease, congestive heart failure, high cholesterol, high b/p which is why I've always thought about it 🙂 

[prairiewindmomma]

41 minutes ago, Eos said:

Yup, this is my whole family though I'm unsure what age.  I'll ask my mother.  We have an unbroken line of heart disease, congestive heart failure, high cholesterol, high b/p which is why I've always thought about it 🙂 

I’d be less inclined to wait three months if you have this strong of a genetic history. Do the lifestyle changes, but get the meds. Maybe you can work your way off them as dh did, but I am not wild about your three months of untreated high bp plan.