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[Indigo Blue]

Deleted for privacy 

Thanks so much for the very helpful replies!

Edited August 19, 2023 by Indigo Blue

[Denise in IN]

Trust your instincts and set your boundaries accordingly.  

Even when you can't completely explain or feel that you understand what you see happening, it's important to pay attention to the feelings that another person's actions evoke within you.  They are clues!  You have more insight than you give yourself credit for.  

[Catwoman]

The only thing you might have done differently is to have told your dh as soon as it happened. Don't second guess yourself! You are an intuitive person and if you felt like something was off, I'm sure it was.

The guy was probably trying to make a move on you and was testing the waters to see if you would be receptive. Obviously, you got your point across because he's steering clear of you now -- probably because he assumes you told your dh what happened, and he wants to look as innocent as possible now.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Catwoman
Complete sentences are a thing

[Katy]

This is the way people start affairs. If you’d been flirtatious instead of horrified you’d probably be having an affair already. Your instincts are right, and the only reason you don’t know that is that your parents undermined that sense for you. 

The only time this is reliably wrong is when it’s the instincts of a narcissist. Their accusations are confessions. 

[El...]

I would not like that at all. And none of this is your fault! This is 100% on him, and you just scrape that gum right off your shoe, Indigo. 

[SKL]

I would guess from the man's current behavior that he had suspicious intentions and is now ashamed of being caught.

The other possibility is that your shocked face implied more than you meant it to.

Thankfully, it doesn't matter any more.

[bolt.]

It's hard to know whether to trust our instincts in the absence of facts. I admire both sides of your assessment: both the idea that (a) you can trust a 'sense of things' in a touch, and the idea that ( b ) you would not want to take such an inner reaction as if it were a fact that wrong had actually been done -- both are honourable and compassionate reactions. Unless you actually need to do something (you don't) you can actually let both things be true and remain true. It doesn't have to be sorted out. Being a whole self sometimes means having mixed feelings and multiple perceptions about a single situation.

Non-dualistic thinking is a superpower and this is a perfect example of where it can be very helpful, and actually practical.

[marbel]

7 minutes ago, SKL said:

I would guess from the man's current behavior that he had suspicious intentions and is now ashamed of being caught.

The other possibility is that your shocked face implied more than you meant it to.

Thankfully, it doesn't matter any more.

I was thinking about this - the bolded. Even after 30 years together, my husband still interprets my surprised/shocked face as an angry face. So it's possible this man interpreted your reaction as anger and he is steering clear because he perceives that he angered you.

Whether he was acting in what he thought was a friendly way or trying to initiate something with you, who knows? It could have been perfectly innocent. No one can say if your gut reaction was right. I mean, generally, I think people should follow their gut - which you did - but I have certainly had times when my gut reaction was off. Like, I'd feel uncomfortable in a situation or with a person, and it would turn out that I'd been all wrong. I am not saying you are wrong. Just that people can be wrong sometimes. 

But, it doesn't matter. You are not going to see him any more once you leave this church.  

Edited August 18, 2023 by marbel

[fraidycat]

Judging by his reaction to your reaction, your gut was spot on!

If he had inadvertently scared you or made you feel uncomfortable with his touch, he would have apologized immediately. 
 

Your rebuff of his advance bruised his wee-itty-bitty man-ego so now you "must be punished". He thinks he's punishing you by paying you no attention when really he's just telling on himself loudly and proudly with his actions.

Edited August 18, 2023 by fraidycat

[alisoncooks]

He could’ve been perfectly innocent in his intentions…but that doesn’t mean that you have to like being touched by him. It’s good he learned his lesson. Most people learn to keep their hands to themselves when they’re little. 

[catz]

You being uncomfortable is enough reason to set strong boundaries and be cold toward him no matter what his intentions were.  You don't owe anyone anything.  You also don't owe him any of your continued thought and mental energy, so I would try to let go of it.  

[EKS]

Is it possible that he didn't mean anything by the hand thing, but the expression on your face made him realize how it came across, and now he's embarrassed?

[Ting Tang]

I agree with you.  Fortunately, you are leaving that church, so the awkwardness will hopefully have an end.  

Edited August 18, 2023 by Rosie_0801
To delete quote

[Clarita]

I have this issue a lot. Essentially for me men over 40 touching me in any manner sets off alarm bells in my head. Sometimes it's a me problem like I even needed to work on that with respect to my husband. If I need to continue a relationship with a person, I have in the past come forward told that person that due to my history certain things set off alarm bells in my head and/or I'm sensitive to that stuff. I've never had anyone with good or innocent intentions take it badly. 

If I'm not going to have a continued relationship with the person then I wouldn't put any more thought into it. 

[Indigo Blue]

@Ting Tangthank you for seeing my point. Would you mind deleting the part where you quoted me? It’s a bit too specific. Thanks. 

[Faith-manor]

I hate being touched by other men. Hate it. Hate how "huggy" churches are. I barely tolerate the hand shaking. So touching my shoulder, especially from behind, would set off my anxiety. I wouldn't necessarily assume anything specific about the man other than, "Why the hell can't people keep their hands to themselves? Didn't they get the memo way back in kindergarten?" And I always feel like this a paternalistic, misogynistic thing. Why do men think they have a right to touch women who aren't their own family members? Isn't it enough that we have the whole handshake thing as it is? We need the tradition of just bowing, a head nod of acknowledgement to come back!

Ya. I probably am not the best person for perspective on this.

Op, he is probably embarassed. Don't worry about it. You are not going back anyway.

[kbutton]

2 hours ago, bolt. said:

It's hard to know whether to trust our instincts in the absence of facts. I admire both sides of your assessment: both the idea that (a) you can trust a 'sense of things' in a touch, and the idea that ( b ) you would not want to take such an inner reaction as if it were a fact that wrong had actually been done -- both are honourable and compassionate reactions. Unless you actually need to do something (you don't) you can actually let both things be true and remain true. It doesn't have to be sorted out. Being a whole self sometimes means having mixed feelings and multiple perceptions about a single situation.

Non-dualistic thinking is a superpower and this is a perfect example of where it can be very helpful, and actually practical.

This, but I also think it’s possible he is embarrassed or this is an area where he is kind of awkward.

Some people also can’t handle any negativity at all and shut down. My chiropractor is someone I totally trust physical safety-wise, but he can’t handle even simple conversations where there might be a misunderstanding about even basic facts. He goes frosty and pretend smiles and changes the subject. 

[Rosie_0801]

Lucky for him you didn't have a whole lotta self defence training, eh? 

Touching people from behind is asking for a muscle memory response.

[Danae]

You are not responsible for his emotions.  If it was an innocent misunderstanding he could have said “Oh, I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to startle you” or something similar when he saw your shocked face. The fact that he’s being petty instead is his problem, not yours.

[-----]

nm

Edited September 1 by kathyl

[-----]

nm

Edited September 1 by kathyl

[Ausmumof3]

I wonder if his wife also saw it and got cranky and told him not to talk to you or something? I hate shoulder touches they feel more intimate than a handshake or something. 

[J-rap]

It could be something or it could be nothing.  I know some men who are just really kind-hearted and touchy, but are completely devoted to their wives.  Maybe when he saw your reaction he realized how it might have come off and was embarrassed.

Or it could be that he was making a subtle move.  It's gross and disturbing when it happens, but it does happen, unfortunately.  

I'd let it go since you're leaving the church anyway.  

When that has happened to me, I bring it up with my dh.  He has an amazing ability to be calm and unemotional, and I appreciate his insight. 

 

[popmom]

Was anyone else taught growing up that a man should never shake a woman's hand unless she extends her hand first? For good reasons... 

What he did was wrong. It was much, much too familiar. If he wasn't feeling you out for your response to his advances, it was at the very least impolite. I would have felt extremely uncomfortable. 

[Indigo Blue]

5 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

Lucky for him you didn't have a whole lotta self defence training, eh? 

Touching people from behind is asking for a muscle memory response.

Thanks, Rosie. 

[SKL]

I agree that all the touching in church is super annoying.  I might start a thread about it.