I think I made a mistake

[DawnM]

I love that he goes to where my dad worked.   He probably does surgery in the building named after my dad.   Far different from the days with no real operating room and me holding a flashlight so my dad could perform surgery in the linen closet!   

I am still not understanding why you think it is a mistake not to go when you just listed in your response to me all the reasons you really shouldn't go due to all the other stuff going on.   

[freesia]

I understand why you are conflicted about not going. ( I have also lived in Africa but the other side.) Your schedule just sounds so exhausting even though it’s full of things that are “fun.” I really think you just need to accept that you need to sit on the couch and eat junk food for a while. In my world, accepting that makes it last a shorter time. Try the yoga, too. 

[marbel]

Most people have conflicts like that sometimes. Probably not so much on such a major scale as an international ministry trip. But it's just not uncommon to have two (or even more) things to pick from, want to do both/all, and have to choose one and move on. And then live with the decision and not second-guess it. That's just how life works. 

Since he goes twice a year, you can go another time. Or go for part of a trip. 

[TexasProud]

27 minutes ago, marbel said:

 

Since he goes twice a year, you can go another time. Or go for part of a trip. 

We have already decided that I will just go once a year.  Feb-April was my one for 2023.  He will probably go back in Jan/Feb.  I will not.  I am staying home Jan - March.  In April, we will take another long RV trip to Indiana.  Our daughter will have her senior showcase, her senior recital, and graduation all within 3 or 4 weeks, so we will take our RV and explore various parts of Indiana or Chicago if the showcase is there for a month or more in between all of that  In May we will lead our trip to Honduras that we have led for over a decade. After that I don't know. But I wanted to be home for those three months.  I will go to Africa if he goes in the summer or in the fall, not when he goes for graduation and exams in Jan/Feb.

[TexasProud]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

I love that he goes to where my dad worked.   He probably does surgery in the building named after my dad.   Far different from the days with no real operating room and me holding a flashlight so my dad could perform surgery in the linen closet!   

I am still not understanding why you think it is a mistake not to go when you just listed in your response to me all the reasons you really shouldn't go due to all the other stuff going on.   

Because I fear I will ruminate and be on here instead of using it productively. And by productively, I mean going for a walk, reading a book, etc. Though it could mean getting my Advent devotion done.  But eating junk food so I gain all the weight back that I have lost, not walking, lying on the couch binging Hill Street Blues or This is Us or the last Jack Ryan season or stalking this board is not helpful. With no outside accountability, I fear that is what I will do.  Then I will feel worse than going ahead and going to Africa and having a better schedule if that makes sense. 

[Melissa Louise]

Sometimes it helps to think of the worst option. 

The worst thing that will happen here is you have an unproductive few weeks, you might gain a pound, and you start too many WTM threads. You feel blah about it.

I mean, it's not really a catastrophe.

But in case it helps, maybe think about how you would manage your feelings in  that worst case scenario.

Might you perhaps be able to think to yourself in that scenario, oh well, I guess now dh is back I'll stop slobbing around on the sofa and go do some stuff? And then do some stuff. And feel a little regretful about the lost weeks, but basically ok because everyone - all the other humans! - also have a lazy time here and there? 

[Melissa Louise]

Maybe you could try really leaning in to the catastrophe and write a hyperbolic account of The Lost Weeks. Make it as funny as you like. Imagine it is a service to all the other women like you who think they should be! productive! 

Write a love poem to your junk food. 

Have some fun with it. 

[TexasProud]

2 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Maybe you could try really leaning in to the catastrophe and write a hyperbolic account of The Lost Weeks. Make it as funny as you like. Imagine it is a service to all the other women like you who think they should be! productive! 

Write a love poem to your junk food. 

Have some fun with it. 

LOL.  I love that idea!

[DawnM]

46 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Because I fear I will ruminate and be on here instead of using it productively. And by productively, I mean going for a walk, reading a book, etc. Though it could mean getting my Advent devotion done.  But eating junk food so I gain all the weight back that I have lost, not walking, lying on the couch binging Hill Street Blues or This is Us or the last Jack Ryan season or stalking this board is not helpful. With no outside accountability, I fear that is what I will do.  Then I will feel worse than going ahead and going to Africa and having a better schedule if that makes sense. 

Is there any help if you tell yourself that isn't what you are going to to this time and set some goals like walking each day, making healthy food choices, and still being able to watch some shows and enjoy some down time?

[KungFuPanda]

Here’s a few random thoughts based upon your replies:

You can combine activities. You can start threads while binge watching TV. You can also take walks while listening to audio books. It was the pandemic that pushed me out of my print-only book preferences. I’ve read so many more books since I accepted audio and ebooks. I can listen to books while doing chores and I love reading ebooks when the lights are low in the evening or I’m in bed for the night. I find it less disruptive to sleepiness than a reading light that’s bright enough for me to see pages. I also love controlling the font. 😁

As someone who turned her hobby that fed her soul into a business that feeds other people’s souls I’ll warn you that you may need a new activity that’s just for you. The switch from purely benefiting from the activity to working to keep a marketable product changes things dramatically. If you don’t enjoy this thing you can switch back even if you lose some money. Hobbies cost money. It’s fine. 
 

So so many dance teachers began zoom classes during the pandemic and have kept them up. It’s not the same as in person, but attending a weekly zoom class can be a lot of fun and there’s no commute. Whatever style you love is bound to have an online class that fits your schedule. 

[SKL]

3 hours ago, TexasProud said:

Because I fear I will ruminate and be on here instead of using it productively. And by productively, I mean going for a walk, reading a book, etc. Though it could mean getting my Advent devotion done.  But eating junk food so I gain all the weight back that I have lost, not walking, lying on the couch binging Hill Street Blues or This is Us or the last Jack Ryan season or stalking this board is not helpful. With no outside accountability, I fear that is what I will do.  Then I will feel worse than going ahead and going to Africa and having a better schedule if that makes sense. 

What if you set a rule that you never get onto WTM or other similar sites until a set time in the afternoon / evening?  That way you won't have this distracting you from things you can/should do earlier in the day.

[SKL]

And I agree that we all have tough choices and wonder later whether we should have chosen differently.  Big and small things.  It's a normal part of life.

[TexasProud]

1 minute ago, SKL said:

What if you set a rule that you never get onto WTM or other similar sites until a set time in the afternoon / evening?  That way you won't have this distracting you from things you can/should do earlier in the day.

I guess that is my point.  I have set "rules" and schedules like that before.  If it is a good day, then no problem.  If it is a bad day, I have no self-discipline.  I know it isn't healthy but do it anyway.  I drive to the store to buy a bag of chocolate chips and eat the whole bag.  Whatever.  So who knows?  Some of that month he is gone, I may be fine.  But me just telling myself I won't do XYZ.  Forget it.  I will turn myself into a pretzel not to break a promise to someone else but could care less about me. 

[SKL]

5 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

I guess that is my point.  I have set "rules" and schedules like that before.  If it is a good day, then no problem.  If it is a bad day, I have no self-discipline.  I know it isn't healthy but do it anyway.  I drive to the store to buy a bag of chocolate chips and eat the whole bag.  Whatever.  So who knows?  Some of that month he is gone, I may be fine.  But me just telling myself I won't do XYZ.  Forget it.  I will turn myself into a pretzel not to break a promise to someone else but could care less about me. 

Well ... then I guess good thing it's just a month.  🙂

Some people do that every day, all year.  You're doing fine.

[Innisfree]

15 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

I guess that is my point.  I have set "rules" and schedules like that before.  If it is a good day, then no problem.  If it is a bad day, I have no self-discipline.  I know it isn't healthy but do it anyway.  I drive to the store to buy a bag of chocolate chips and eat the whole bag.  Whatever.  So who knows?  Some of that month he is gone, I may be fine.  But me just telling myself I won't do XYZ.  Forget it.  I will turn myself into a pretzel not to break a promise to someone else but could care less about me. 

You know, the only problem with any of this is that you blame yourself and ruminate on it.

Why is it so awful to eat junk food and be lazy for a while? You won’t continue it too long, because you’ll stop once your dh is home.

The schedule you’ve described would make me crawl into bed and hide under the covers. No wonder you’re exhausted. You deserve some absolute rest and self-indulgence for a while. 

Would you be this critical of a friend who’s acting in the worst way you can imagine yourself acting while your dh is gone? If not, why should you be so hard on yourself?

[Heartstrings]

7 hours ago, TexasProud said:

I think I have talked about it before but I talk for 55 minutes and then she gave me some silly meditation technique ( which I already knew about and already did)

Did you go back a 2nd time?   Give them time to get to know you, give them time to prepare to for the next session with you

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

If your husband agreed to it, I think moving to Africa for a while would be amazing for you. 
I saw a lot of your therapists were through BetterHelp. When the site first opened, I tried it and had a good experience. Over the last three years the quality seems to have really decreased.  Many of the therapists are doing BH on the side while running a full in person therapy business on the side.  I prefer CBT as well but have not really had a good experience on there with that the last few years either.  I think if you could find a good in person therapist to help reframe and redirect your thoughts that would be amazing.

You don’t necessarily strike me as bipolar in your posts.  You sound(kind of like me) as someone who has a lot of competing desires and wishes, as well as a lot of multipotentiality.  That in itself is very stressful and especially if you’ve got some trauma in your background, can lead to decision paralysis.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/creative-synthesis/201107/multipotentiality-when-high-ability-leads-to-too-many-options?amp

[TexasProud]

22 minutes ago, Heartstrings said:

Did you go back a 2nd time?   Give them time to get to know you, give them time to prepare to for the next session with you

Here were my therapists:
1. I saw this one for at least a year. I knew her. She was the wife of our previous youth minister, but they had moved to a town a little over an hour away.  I was not honest with her.  We spent the entire sessions talking about my husband who was going through burnout and probable depression and how I could deal with that. That is when primary guy put me on Lexapro. I got suicidal ( which I never was before or since), but I didn't tell her.
2. I saw the psych and switched to the counselor he recommended.  I was honest, but she was useless. She is the one where I talked about feeling responsible for my husband's stroke and she said pray about it.   I saw her for a year or so, I think. When the psych released me, I quit. 
3. I used a guy on Better Help and specifically made sure it wasn't Christian.  He and I didn't click at all.  I did my 4 sessions and quit. I don't remember him giving me anything actionable to do to be honest.  
4. Last fall, I found a local person who supposedly did DBT.  She is the one I described above.  I saw her once a week for 3 months before I ghosted her. 

The other experience I had was part of 1 and 2.  My husband finally saw a guy counselor he liked that was in the same practice as my number 1.  My husband had me attend every single one of his sessions.  He pretty much told the counselor everything he told me over and over and over.  Counselor was not helpful...well hubby found him so.  Part of it was the counselor was like you are the most chill person I have ever seen and yet you say you have anxiety.  I don't see it.   Sigh.  Also, one time he asked me talk about a problem in our marriage.  I described one and he laughed.  Yes, laughed and said how little it was and we all have small issues.  No it wasn't a huge deal.  My husband and I are always nice to each other, never yell, etc.  But that doesn't mean it should be brushed aside.  Whatever. 

[forty-two]

7 hours ago, TexasProud said:

My spiritual director has been the most helpful.  I always feel so hopeful when we finish.

FWIW, I don't think modern psychological therapy is the end-all, be-all.  There are other options, other routes to dealing with issues of the mind, of the soul.  And for millennia, spiritual care was the primary route.  Spiritual care and modern psychological therapy can complement each other, but if you are finding spiritual care to help and have tried four therapists to no avail - I don't think you need to feel obligated to keep trying therapy, as if there is no other path to learning to live a life worth living.  Therapy might be the dominant approach of our culture, but it is *not* the only solution out there.  If working with your spiritual director is helping most, then why not let working with her be your primary approach.

[TexasProud]

Just now, forty-two said:

FWIW, I don't think modern psychological therapy is the end-all, be-all.  There are other options, other routes to dealing with issues of the mind, of the soul.  And for millennia, spiritual care was the primary route.  Spiritual care and modern psychological therapy can complement each other, but if you are finding spiritual care to help and have tried four therapists to no avail - I don't think you need to feel obligated to keep trying therapy, as if there is no other path to learning to live a life worth living.  Therapy might be the dominant approach of our culture, but it is *not* the only solution out there.  If working with your spiritual director is helping most, then why not let working with her be your primary approach.

I have been, but she is taking the next month off. 

[forty-two]

1 minute ago, TexasProud said:

I have been, but she is taking the next month off. 

Well, that bites.  IDK if seeking out a new therapist would help with your short-term issue of how to keep good habits going and not spiral in the next month anyway.  Have you talked with your spiritual director about those sorts of problems? Idk if you have a chance to see her again before she's taking the month off, but she might have something helpful to offer.

 

 

[TexasProud]

Oh and about the what is the big deal about how you eat.  I was 170.  I am 5 foot 5.  My cholesterol has always been borderline 195-210.  Last time I think it was 270 or something and so he put me on cholesterol meds.  I am now 157.  Also, the genetic testing the psych did said that my genes made me susceptible to high cholesterol and my liver function wasn't good.  I had my gall bladder out in 2014.   So I should...oops, not supposed to say should.  If I choose to make better choices I have less chance of a bad medical outcome. 

My husband, on the other hand is 6 foot, weighs 145 ( was 160 when we got married) and has always had a cholesterol of 95-110. I weighed 112 when we met.  I was 125-130 until I went on anti-depressants and then I have never been able to lose it. 

Edited July 4, 2023 by TexasProud

[bolt.]

1 hour ago, TexasProud said:

Here were my therapists:
1. I saw this one for at least a year. I knew her. She was the wife of our previous youth minister, but they had moved to a town a little over an hour away.  I was not honest with her.  We spent the entire sessions talking about my husband who was going through burnout and probable depression and how I could deal with that. That is when primary guy put me on Lexapro. I got suicidal ( which I never was before or since), but I didn't tell her.
2. I saw the psych and switched to the counselor he recommended.  I was honest, but she was useless. She is the one where I talked about feeling responsible for my husband's stroke and she said pray about it.   I saw her for a year or so, I think. When the psych released me, I quit. 
3. I used a guy on Better Help and specifically made sure it wasn't Christian.  He and I didn't click at all.  I did my 4 sessions and quit. I don't remember him giving me anything actionable to do to be honest.  
4. Last fall, I found a local person who supposedly did DBT.  She is the one I described above.  I saw her once a week for 3 months before I ghosted her. 

The other experience I had was part of 1 and 2.  My husband finally saw a guy counselor he liked that was in the same practice as my number 1.  My husband had me attend every single one of his sessions.  He pretty much told the counselor everything he told me over and over and over.  Counselor was not helpful...well hubby found him so.  Part of it was the counselor was like you are the most chill person I have ever seen and yet you say you have anxiety.  I don't see it.   Sigh.  Also, one time he asked me talk about a problem in our marriage.  I described one and he laughed.  Yes, laughed and said how little it was and we all have small issues.  No it wasn't a huge deal.  My husband and I are always nice to each other, never yell, etc.  But that doesn't mean it should be brushed aside.  Whatever. 

I really appreciated my experiences with DBT, which I learned through a zoom therapy group during the pandemic while I was melting down over everything. It was a lot to learn, taught very quickly with about a thousand acronyms... but the stuff I remember is the stuff I applied. It's been really good for my ability to think accurately, and my ability to regulate my emotions.

I see a few opportunities (?) where the DBT things that I found memorable might be applicable to the things you are experiencing... so I think whoever was trying to offer you DBT was probably on to something.

How did you find it?

[forty-two]

2 hours ago, TexasProud said:

I guess that is my point.  I have set "rules" and schedules like that before.  If it is a good day, then no problem.  If it is a bad day, I have no self-discipline.  I know it isn't healthy but do it anyway.  I drive to the store to buy a bag of chocolate chips and eat the whole bag.  Whatever.  So who knows?  Some of that month he is gone, I may be fine.  But me just telling myself I won't do XYZ.  Forget it.  I will turn myself into a pretzel not to break a promise to someone else but could care less about me. 

I relate to this a lot - I'm my own worst enemy - it's a constant struggle <hugs>.  Self-discipline is just hard, and some days I don't even want to succeed if success is going to be that hard.  I had a bad 2022 (winter depression didn't lift in the spring, and I was content to mostly spiral downwards, till a bunch of external problems prompted me to at least make minor efforts to stop the free-fall), and climbing out of it is hard and I just don't wanna half the time.  But I'm at least trying the other half.

IDK how it works for you, but for me the whole "just veg and take a break till you get bored, whereupon you'll naturally start picking things back up" advice only works when I'm a certain level of functional.  On my bad days, I'll hit that point of boredom and ennui with my chosen low-level distractions and nevertheless *keep going*.  I describe it as "feeling stuck" - what I'm doing is now actively making things worse, I *know* it's making things worse, and yet I can't/won't/don't stop it.  And so I just spiral down until either life intervenes, or I manage to intervene (I am getting better at intervening). 

I do have mental health problems (anxiety and depression), and so I can spiral down a lot further and faster than more mentally healthy people.  But I had no self-discipline prior to depression becoming a thing in my life - I just put the brakes on in a more reasonable time frame, didn't fall so far or fast.  (I will say, getting "stuck" is a mental health thing; mentally-healthy-but-lacking-in-self-discipline me didn't have a problem with changing tacks once a given activity was more trouble than I perceived it to be worth.)

Anyway, I understand wanting to do things but then not managing to do them.  There's something to be said for "well, what you actually do shows what you actually want, deep down - apparently you don't want X as much as you thought you did," - for me, I wanted to have short-term fun and/or avoid perceived pain more than I wanted to accomplish hard things (sometimes anxiety-augmented, sometimes not).  But I don't think it's the whole story. 

For one, finding out what you actually value more than what you think you value isn't enough to enable you to *change* what your actual values are (it helps, but it doesn't do it all).  And for another, often you *really* value what you *thought* you valued - but that still isn't enough to reliably *live* the value.  Because we are more than thinking things.  And sin is a thing, both in us and in the world around us, screwing things up.

Anyway, a thing that helped me, real fast (she says optimistically):

*This thing on procrastination about the instant gratification monkey.  When a day is going badly, and the imp on shoulder tells me to just give up and eat *all* the chocolate or watch *all* the TV or otherwise that I might as well *really* torpedo the day (the ol' imp on the shoulder is how I think of the self-destructive "might as well be *really* stupid" ideas I get on bad days) - it really helped me once I recognized that I *could say no* to the imp.  Like, it's stupid, but somehow it was an emotional revelation that I *did not have to be at the mercy of the imp*.  I could tell the dang imp *no*.  I often just chuck things because I wanna, but at least I can stop the freefall of bad days by not letting my initial lack of self-discipline justify chucking absolutely everything because the dang imp is all like, "why bother at all".

Edited July 4, 2023 by forty-two

[TexasProud]

12 minutes ago, forty-two said:

 

*This thing on procrastination about the instant gratification monkey.  When a day is going badly, and the imp on shoulder tells me to just give up and eat *all* the chocolate or watch *all* the TV or otherwise that I might as well *really* torpedo the day (the ol' imp on the shoulder is how I think of the self-destructive "might as well be *really* stupid" ideas I get on bad days) - it really helped me once I recognized that I *could say no* to the imp.  Like, it's stupid, but somehow it was an emotional revelation that I *did not have to be at the mercy of the imp*.  I could tell the dang imp *no*.  I often just chuck things because I wanna, but at least I can stop the freefall of bad days by not letting my initial lack of self-discipline justify chucking absolutely everything because the dang imp is all like, "why bother at all".

Thanks for commiserating with me.  LOL, I used that when I taught the college study skills class. My issue is that I do not procrastinate when I am teaching, have a paper due or other outside accountability.  I get it done early and I get it done on time and really well.  But right now..it is just me.  No one cares if I write or not or do anything or not.  Here is the Ted Talk I used:

 

Edited July 4, 2023 by TexasProud

[LaughingCat]

None of this really sounds like therapist stuff to me, more like normal life in my world.  My DH sets himself rules and follows them.  I set myself rules and then don't follow them, waste a bunch of time doing stupid things I don't even want to be doing, and then kick myself a bunch after. I have plenty of things I truly want to be working on -- and then spend my time surfing or playing stupid app games instead.  And I guess I'm just missing the joy/pleasure gene that many here apparently have 😄 because if I waited for that, I wouldn't have tried a LOT of the things I have tried and eventually ended up enjoying doing (I think the lack actually goes along with being very hard on yourself about everything).

The top things that have helped:  

1.  ADHD strategies (even though I am not ADHD).  
2. treating my life/projects as a series of Agile sprints -- not all the work/code related details but at this type of level:  Short term planning (1 or 2 weeks) --> implementation --> review/retrospective of what worked and didn't --> repeat over and over
3. Making most rules super simple and non-restrictive-- things such as "do it for 5 minutes and then I can be done if I want or continue if I want" or "here's a list of projects and to-do's, I can work on any of them I want" (I use todo-ist for this currently)
4. utilize what works for me even if it doesn't make sense -- for example, sometimes I need super restrictive rules  ( I guess I can't even follow the rule that I never follow the rules 🤣) - for eating in particular it generally works best for me to let myself eat whenever I want but be super restrictive on what I can eat

It seems to me a life coach would be a better fit than a therapist -- no idea how to look for one though (I've occasionally thought of looking for one myself, but things never got bad enough, somehow I always managed to bumble through)

Note: I have done EMDR and had great results with one therapist -- then she moved and handed me off to another who was useless 👎 -- it did a lot for a low level depression I was in, but nothing for my inability to get things done in the 'normal' way.

[forty-two]

4 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

Thanks for commiserating with me.  LOL, I used that when I taught the college study skills class. My issue is that I do not procrastinate when I am teaching, have a paper due or other outside accountability.  I get it done early and I get it done on time and really well.  But right now..it is just me.  No one cares if I write or not or do anything or not. 

 

Lol. I do procrastinate on everything, always have.  I wonder if Gretchen Rubin's "Four Tendencies" might be helpful.  It's based on what kind of expectations you respond to: internal, external, neither, or both.  I think this board has a lot of internally motivated folks, but you sound more externally motivated.

 

WRT "But right now..it is just me.  No one cares if I write or not or do anything or not." 

In trying to get myself to follow my own rules (which is 100% a process and not a on/off button), I started with things that had short-term consequences that I cared about without any overthinking: namely, overeating (the feeling of a too-full stomach sucks), and pulling myself out of a stuck spiral (that feeling sucks).  Trying to avoid specific unpleasant short-term consequences was, for me, a good entry point into building up the "following my own rules" muscles. (I've fallen backwards, so I'm in the process of trying to reestablish the overeating one, which in it's beginning form is simply: don't eat if full.  Inevitable badness results, and quickly, so it's been a good starter rule for me.  Later I extend it to "don't eat if not hungry", but that one's harder.) 

Anyway, it sounds like you don't like a lot of the things you end up doing.  Maybe pick one thing to avoid in its worst incarnation (not "don't watch TV", but "don't watch TV past the point it's fun"; not "don't eat chocolate," but "don't eat so much chocolate that you feel sick") - i.e. baby step practice following your own rules with ones that help curb just the worst excesses, the sort of thing that you hate while it's happening.  That way, breaking the rule leads to the natural consequences of immediate badness.  It's key that it leads to *natural consequences* of *immediate or near-immediate* badness; it's not just you beating yourself up nor are the consequences something you won't feel till down the line.  And it's something you do intrinsically care about, at least in the sense of avoiding the worst consequences. 

[Clarita]

33 minutes ago, TexasProud said:

My issue is that I do not procrastinate when I am teaching, have a paper due or other outside accountability.  I get it done early and I get it done on time and really well.  But right now..it is just me.  No one cares if I write or not or do anything or not. 

Make your phone "care" and nag you about it. (Yea you can cheat your phone and tell it to stop nagging, but why would you? - When you cheat your phone ask yourself that question.) To get your pone to nag you set appointments or to do on your phone calendar.

I procrastinate all the time on the things that don't matter. To get things done, I either have my phone nag me. The other strategy I do is I make it something I have a deadline and *need* to get done. So I'll invite a bunch of people over so I'll actually put the laundry away. I'll set dates with friends to go swimming or ice skating for physical activity try and make it weekly thing. I've done a ballet class just to get myself exercising and you bet I forced myself to sign up for the performance because then I actually have to show up. 

Lastly don't ever compare height and weight fitness ratio with your husband. I'm going to assume he's biologically male. Biological males are built differently than biological females so what is healthy for them is different than what is healthy for biological females, our healthy fat and muscle ratios are very different. 

I mean I invite people to come over to my house on a weekly basis so I would keep my house decent. 

[LaughingCat]

I was also thinking about Gretchen Rubin's 4 tendencies -- I did mostly fall into the "the obliger" in her model -- the idea itself was helpful for me but her suggestions for dealing with it were not (although I think she's done a whole class/website now so maybe this has improved).  Also, I don't feel like I really quite fit in her scheme at all -- which is normal for me when taking such tests (which she puts more into "the rebel" category 🙄)

However for me -- it is far better to not do something at all then to think I will be able to stop when I hit a certain point.   Everything in moderation is not a strategy that works for me.   Deleting the app that pulls me in works.  Not having the food in the house (or keeping it in a place I do not look) works.  Telling myself I can limit myself to 15 min a day or 1 cookie or to stopping when I get the 'full' point -- that just guarantees kicking myself hours later. 

ETA: that is why I like the Agile sprint schema I posted above -- it lets you try things and see what works and what doesn't and then re-implement -- obviously everybody will be different in what works for them

Edited July 4, 2023 by LaughingCat

[marbel]

Maybe this has already been said; I've read every post of this thread (and posted too many times myself) but am losing track a bit, so forgive me if I'm repeating: why not just consider the time your husband is away as your vacation? I bet when he is home you do a lot to care for him, the house, etc. So, he's away and you are on your break. Do what you want when you want to. And I know you're going to say "but I don't know what I want" so what I mean is, in the moment. When you wake up, what do you feel like doing? Sleeping in? Reading in bed for hours? Going out for coffee alone or with a friend? Shopping? 

My husband doesn't travel, and he works from home 3 days a week. But one of the days he goes into the office each week is my day off. I drop him at the train station and do whatever the heck I want all day. It's not the same as your situation, obvs, but just take the time. Be productive the rest of the year. 

 

[forty-two]

2 minutes ago, LaughingCat said:

I was also thinking about Gretchen Rubin's 4 tendencies -- I did mostly fall into the "the obliger" in her model -- the idea itself was helpful for me but her suggestions for dealing with it were not (although I think she's done a whole class/website now so maybe this has improved).  Also, I don't feel like I really quite fit in her scheme at all -- which is normal for me when taking such tests (which she puts more into "the rebel" category 🙄)

Yeah, I also found the idea helpful while not necessarily fitting the scheme myself.  Overall, I do think I'm a Questioner, but some trends in my life seem more Obliger or, at times, even Rebel.  I understand that should imply Obliger-rebellion, but I can't begin to say how much I just am *not* a people-pleaser in any way.  "Do only what I think is worth doing" has been my self-description for my whole life; I'm not prepared to say I've been *that* fundamentally wrong about knowing myself.  And most successes have come from reframing my viewpoint about my own rules - that following my own rules isn't an imposition, but instead is a gift I can give to myself - they are there to *help* me do what I want to do, instead of prevent me from doing what I want to do.

Also, wrt to the suggestions, as I recall they are very "hack your innate tendency in order to get things done", which is fine to a point, and my default approach.  But idk, as I get older, I think there are times and areas in which you just have to bite the bullet and do the hard work of building up virtue in lacking areas, rather than to keep trying to find clever ways to side-step having to do the work.  (I am definitely the sort of person who will spend three times the effort to avoid (or hack) a task than it would take to just do it - it's something I'm working to change.)

[forty-two]

Was reading on Rubin's website a bit, and noticed a few interesting things:

*The idea that some people "tip" in the direction of a neighboring tendency (i.e. QUESTIONER/upholder, QUESTIONER/rebel, etc.) => so some add'l nuance there

*The core ideal of Rebels as "only doing what I *want*" - I probably have used "do only what I think worth doing" interchangeably with "do only what I want"; I had previously been thinking of Rebels as *actively* resisting expectations, vs just *ignoring* expectations.  I don't particularly *resist* expectations so much as just have a tendency to *ignore* them unless I think they are worthwhile. So idk here.

*Read about Obliger-rebellion (when Obligers blow up and start flat out refusing and rejecting external expectations), and realized my middle is an Obliger in a family of Questioners/Rebels. Discussions with her about taking ownership of things often end up looking a lot like this thread, lol, in the sense that we talk past each other and she gets all upset because we aren't happy with her over something but she doesn't understand why we are unhappy with it.  Don't know how much is genuinely different values versus very contradictory ways of talking about them (it's definitely at least some of the latter), but poor kid - it's hard being a people-pleasing outlier (one who is in Obliger-rebellion to her siblings for years, though I can't blame her for that).

[forty-two]

2 hours ago, TexasProud said:

My issue is that I do not procrastinate when I am teaching, have a paper due or other outside accountability.  I get it done early and I get it done on time and really well.  But right now..it is just me.  No one cares if I write or not or do anything or not.  Here is the Ted Talk I used:

 

I was re-reading this, and really, even though you don't procrastinate with external expectations, it does seem like it could at least partially apply to you with your internal expectations - I mean, your description of what it feels like to watch all the TV instead of what you were hoping to do is textbook Dark Playground.  Ditto for the competition between Rational Decision-Maker and the Instant Gratification Monkey over how to spend time, with the assumption that the Monkey is going to win.  And how you just can't get to the Important-but-not-Urgent things you want to do.  Even if the "do things when Panic Monkey freaks out enough" thing doesn't fit, enough of the rest seems to that it might be worth considering, esp the idea of changing your Storyline about the inevitability of the Monkey winning. 

Edited July 4, 2023 by forty-two

[annandatje]

.

Edited July 4, 2023 by annandatje

[Terabith]

3 hours ago, LaughingCat said:

 

1. treating my life/projects as a series of Agile sprints -- not all the work/code related details but at this type of level:  Short term planning (1 or 2 weeks) --> implementation --> review/retrospective of what worked and didn't --> repeat over and over

But do you let people leave the meetings early if there isn't anything to talk about?

[annandatje]

.

Edited July 4, 2023 by annandatje

[KungFuPanda]

I was 110 when I met my husband too. I was a child; flippin teenager. That’s not the body to compare your middle-aged self too. That body had the metabolism of a teenager and had never given birth. Don’t compare your grown woman body to that of college girls. It’s unhelpful and unkind. 

[scholastica]

About the weight, focus on fitness, not the number on the scale. Did I walk farther and/or faster than last time.  Also, strength training, build those muscles and strengthen the bones. BMI isn’t a terribly good indicator of health. 
Lastly, you know this, but your value as a person is not determined by your weight. If anyone is telling you this or implying this, they are being abusive and they need help to get their head on straight.

[Kassia]

11 minutes ago, scholastica said:

Lastly, you know this, but your value as a person is not determined by your weight. If anyone is telling you this or implying this, they are being abusive and they need help to get their head on straight.

This is really hard for those of us who grew up being told over and over again that they are only likeable/loveable if they are thin.  And there is so much thin privilege everywhere in  society to reinforce that.  I'm struggling with this now.  After years of maintaining a very low weight (with disordered eating and exercise), I now have health issues that cause  me to be sedentary and I have gained a lot of weight and am so ashamed and filled with self-hatred and disgust for myself.  But I also eat to soothe and distract myself from my health issues.  I'm fortunate to have a DH who adores me at any weight, but I am incredibly self-conscious with anyone else because of my size now and hate the way I feel and look in my body and clothes and am so angry with myself for getting to this point.  

Edited July 5, 2023 by Kassia

[scholastica]

3 minutes ago, Kassia said:

This is really hard for those of us who grew up being told over and over again that they are only likeable/loveable if they are thin.  And there is so much thin privilege everywhere in  society to reinforce that.  I'm struggling with this now.  After years of maintaining a very low weight (with disordered eating and exercise), I now have health issues that cause  me to be sedentary and I have gained a lot of weight and am so ashamed and filled with self-hatred and disgust for myself.  But I also eat to soothe and distract myself from my health issues.  I'm fortunate to have a DH who adores me at any weight, but I am incredibly self-conscious with anyone else because of my size now and hate the way I feel and look in my body and clothes and am so angry with myself for getting to this point.  

I am one of those people, as well. This is hard fought for me and I still have days where I fall back into bad thought patterns. 

[marbel]

Nvm.

Edited July 5, 2023 by marbel

[Melissa Louise]

Every writer has to deal with this. It's true, nobody is waiting on your creative work. There are many books in the world; the world doesn't wait with bated breath for yours. 

So what?

Jostle your way in anyhow. 

Do it because you want to, because you like your voice and what it has to say. 

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by Melissa Louise

[fraidycat]

7 hours ago, TexasProud said:

Thanks for commiserating with me.  LOL, I used that when I taught the college study skills class. My issue is that I do not procrastinate when I am teaching, have a paper due or other outside accountability.  I get it done early and I get it done on time and really well.  But right now..it is just me.  No one cares if I write or not or do anything or not.  Here is the Ted Talk I used:

 

Have you thought about hiring an accountability coach. It sounds like your "tendency" (Gretchen Rubin, The Four Tendencies) is full on Obliger. You will only meet outside expectations, not internal ones. It is an innate part of who you are. But, instead of accepting that part of you, you beat yourself up for being that way. 
 

So maybe all you need is a coach to hold you accountable for those weeks he is gone.

 

[KSera]

16 hours ago, TexasProud said:

Yeah that last one was supposedly DBT.  I literally asked for that.

Unless there was a whole bunch more to it than what you described, that wasn’t DBT at all. DBT is extremely specific. 

16 hours ago, TexasProud said:

My behavior is not dramatic ups and downs.  I don't fit the manic phase in behavior. Yes, the psych had testing done for that as well as several other things. He did the genetic panel. 

I’m unclear on the bolded, because we’re not to the point yet of having a genetic test they can tell you if you’re bipolar. Not all types of bipolar have classic manic phases. Type 2 bipolar has hypomanic phases, which might look pretty normal. Anyway, just saying that it’s a diagnosis that gets missed in a lot of people until they’ve been looking for answers for a long time. And that’s definitely one of those where the right medication makes a world of difference for most people. 

[fairfarmhand]

So can’t you set up accountability with a friend? I have friends that I confide that I’m struggling with overeating. Can I text you my food diary for the next few weeks? Friend says yes, and I text her every evening. She cheers me on when I do well and encourages me when I screw up. She says “it’s ok, remember that you can stop right now and begin again.”

my friend struggles with getting overwhelmed with life and spending too much time on her phone. I help her with that, asking her (she asks for this when she’s struggling) about her morning to do list and we check in with each other throughout the day.

I have a podcaster I listen to and she has friends she texts when she buys Oreos. That’s her trigger food. If she buys Oreos too often her friend lovingly says “hey, this is not in line with your health goals. What’s going on in your life that’s messing with this goal?”

this is real friendship. I’ve done these kinds of things for my friends and they do them for me. It’s better to do this with friends than my dh because I don’t want my dh involved in my eating issues. At all.

Edited July 5, 2023 by fairfarmhand

[TexasProud]

9 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

I was 110 when I met my husband too. I was a child; flippin teenager. That’s not the body to compare your middle-aged self too. That body had the metabolism of a teenager and had never given birth. Don’t compare your grown woman body to that of college girls. It’s unhelpful and unkind. 

I am not comparing myself to my 112 number.  I just put it to show that I have gained weight while my husband has lost it.  I liked and still like the 125-130 that I was nearly the entire time while and after I had kids.  I put on 40 pounds with that stupid anti-depressant.  130-135 is my goal weight and would put my in a healthy BMI.  Right now my BMI is considered obese.     

[TexasProud]

12 hours ago, forty-two said:

I was re-reading this, and really, even though you don't procrastinate with external expectations, it does seem like it could at least partially apply to you with your internal expectations - I mean, your description of what it feels like to watch all the TV instead of what you were hoping to do is textbook Dark Playground.  Ditto for the competition between Rational Decision-Maker and the Instant Gratification Monkey over how to spend time, with the assumption that the Monkey is going to win.  And how you just can't get to the Important-but-not-Urgent things you want to do.  Even if the "do things when Panic Monkey freaks out enough" thing doesn't fit, enough of the rest seems to that it might be worth considering, esp the idea of changing your Storyline about the inevitability of the Monkey winning. 

Oh, yes, I rewatched it and the most poignant part of the whole thing, which is SO SO funny is when he talks about the fact that everyone procrastinates. The problem is when it is things like spending time with family where there is no deadline so the panic monster never comes out.  He is right about that for sure.  

For me, it is also without the element of not disappointing someone the panic monster will never come in... well, except that I don't need the panic monster... wait... Actually, I think my panic monster guides the ship all the time when I have a deadline, so I get things done WAY ahead of time. I can see all the bad things that could happen: the printer could break, or someone could go into the hospital so that paper needs to be done a week ahead of time to leave margin. Whenever I ask friends about words to describe me, organized is normally at the top of the list. But when I have no deadline that anyone doesn't care about their is no one guiding the ship.  I am not sure the rational brain is even there on deck. LOL.

[TexasProud]

13 hours ago, marbel said:

Maybe this has already been said; I've read every post of this thread (and posted too many times myself) but am losing track a bit, so forgive me if I'm repeating: why not just consider the time your husband is away as your vacation? I bet when he is home you do a lot to care for him, the house, etc. So, he's away and you are on your break. Do what you want when you want to. And I know you're going to say "but I don't know what I want" so what I mean is, in the moment. When you wake up, what do you feel like doing? Sleeping in? Reading in bed for hours? Going out for coffee alone or with a friend? Shopping? 

 

This used to be the case, especially prior to 2015. I literally tried to do everything so that his home could be a haven, so he didn't have to worry about anything. I tried to anticipate his every need. He was so sweet and worked SO SO incredibly hard and worried so much about everything from his patients to whether or not he was a good enough dad.  I had all the stuff with the children. If he even mentioned something in passing, I made sure it got done. 

He also tended to presume I wanted to do what he wanted to. He set out our plan for the day.  I mean he would ask, don't get me wrong, but my thought was when he was gone ( which was A TON) I could do what I wanted and when he was there we did what he wanted.  I don't know I was literally straight-up terrified of being found out when I made mistakes and I would hide stuff like missing a credit card payment or something.  I definitely tried to hide when appliances broke until the weekend because if he knew that the dishwasher broke, he would come home from a long day of surgery or clinic and work on it so that we wouldn't be without one.  He thought he was a bad husband if I was the least bit unhappy, so I tried really hard to be happy all the time. He would ask me if I was mad at him and what could he do?

Something broke in me after the stroke.  The job was so stressful and I thought.  Finally, he will quit and do something else..Nope.  I said it was a stroke, it wasn't. Just a bleed. He never lost consciousness.  Never lost motor function of any kind. Just the worst headache of his life. He was in the ICU, but just as a precaution in case he had a vasospasm.  We walked the halls around the ICU several times a day, albeit slowly.  When we got home, we walked our property slowly. The neurologist cleared him to go back to work 2 weeks later..  When I looked up the normal protocol it should have been 3 months minimum and more like 6. He eased into it and worked much more slowly, especially in clinic. Anyway, I just thought it will never end. He will always be stressed no matter how much I try or what I do.  Inside, I broke. 

That is when I got suicidal. How or why he asked me, "Are you going to harm myself?" we don't know.  I was acting fine on the outside. We think it was a God thing. But we had an incident we call the defoliating of the pine tree where I told him everything, literally everything going on inside me.  Since that time, he has bent over backwards to make sure he asks me what I need or what I want.  Even last week he said "I know that I love RVing.  Sometimes I worry that I have talked you into all of this.  What do you want?  We need to make sure we do what YOU want."

So since he retired in 2019 (couldn't keep up the pace of a "normal" doc), he is home 24/7.  He cooks the majority of the meals. He does all the outside chores and some of the inside ones.  He assumes I am writing when I am on the computer and considers that important work that I need to do. He tells me all the time just because I work all the time doesn't mean you have to. The undercurrent of fear that I lived with is gone. If I screw up a bill, I tell him. he doesn't care. He doesn't care about half the stuff I was afraid he did. Literally, he will love me no matter what.

But losing that impetus of worrying about that took away all the drive for me as well.  Oh...you don't care that dishes are in the sink?  Well, why go do them, especially when he will just do them when he comes in? 

I mean I do some stuff. Yesterday, I did unload and load the dishwasher, practice VBS music ( though again an outside deadline for that one), take the exchange girls back and forth to activities. Hubby asked me to steam clean the trailer and boat, so I did do that. But other than that I was on here all day.  Many days he doesn't ask me to do anything. 

So yeah, prior to when he retired, I did think of the days he left town as a holiday.  Kids and I didn't clean up at all until right before he came home. But now, I have holiday 24/7 really. I am just really lost about how I should use my time. What do I want?  Don't have a clue. 

I mean fine. I can drop writing. But then what do I replace it with? 



 

[freesia]

It seems like your whole motivation plan for years and years is based on fear of criticism. Now you are trying to work that same plan but with you being the critic. The healthy path imo would be to let go of all of that. Yes, you will go into a free fall mess for a bit but you have the resources—financially and relationally—to navigate that without much consequence other than maybe a messy house and possibly a gain of weight. Perhaps push back at the reactivity inside you. Ask yourself why you want to eat junk food. Ask yourself how much your stomach wants. Ask yourself why you are scrolling on WTM all day and do you feel good doing it? When it doesn’t feel good, what would feel good? Not what you should do—what you want or need.  
 

[marbel]

31 minutes ago, freesia said:

It seems like your whole motivation plan for years and years is based on fear of criticism. Now you are trying to work that same plan but with you being the critic. The healthy path imo would be to let go of all of that. Yes, you will go into a free fall mess for a bit but you have the resources—financially and relationally—to navigate that without much consequence other than maybe a messy house and possibly a gain of weight. Perhaps push back at the reactivity inside you. Ask yourself why you want to eat junk food. Ask yourself how much your stomach wants. Ask yourself why you are scrolling on WTM all day and do you feel good doing it? When it doesn’t feel good, what would feel good? Not what you should do—what you want or need.  
 

Yep, that's how it reads to me too. 

@TexasProudyou know your issues can't be fixed here on the boards. People are happy to talk to you but none of us really knows what's going on and no one can truly help you. We can give you ideas - not tell you what to do - but that's all. I hope when your husband comes home and you are on your RV trip you can have a good honest talk with him about your life. The fact that you still hide stuff from him - like eating a donut - sounds as if you are still fearing his criticism.  And it sounds as if even when he is away he directs your days, whether he means to or not; as you said:

"Hubby asked me to steam clean the trailer and boat, so I did do that. But other than that I was on here all day.  Many days he doesn't ask me to do anything."

I agree that an accountability coach could really help you. Even here there is the daily "tackling" thread which I don't participate in but seems like it might be helpful to you. A personal friend would be better.

I hope you can find a way to take charge of your life and your days. 

Edited July 5, 2023 by marbel