WWYD (Mom situation)

[BakersDozen]

I've not posted much about my mom because things have been mostly quiet, and the things that do happen are as expected from a narcissist. Nothing has changed with her, in other words, save for the fact that she is falling on an almost daily basis now. She'll call me one day, then call 911 the next, then back to us the next... Before she moved here she refused to call 911 and would stay on the floor for days until my older sister checked on her and could drive 1.5 hours to pick her up (and clean up). This behavior stemmed from my mom not wanting social services to be notified as there apparently is some rule that a certain number of fall calls and then it has to be reported (NJ)? Anyway, we've picked her up a few times over the last 3 weeks - no huge falls, just slipping off the chair as she's trying to pick something up. She refuses to have any kind of exercise machine in her house - got rid of a lovely stationary bike which we gave her as it didn't fit with her decor. I'm trying to convince her to buy an under-the-desk machine (which I just purchased for myself - thanks for the recs, ladies!) because she's so weak, this will keep happening.

OK, so the situation now is this: Last night at about 11:45 my brother in CA called. My mom had fallen and was on the floor of her bedroom, unable to get up, and so she'd used the Alexa (one set up in her room and the kitchen area) to contact my brother. Why my brother and not me? Because my brother set it up so that the emergency contact is either him (in CA) or my older sister (in PA). Not me, 2 streets away. Now I get why my mom removed me as her medical POA - she can't have me knowing her business because it would mean exposing her constant lies and manipulation of medical care providers (seriously, she is over the top crazy and caused a total crap show last fall - what a stinking mess). But what is getting to both me and dh is this: She'll have my sister who can hardly get on her feet from her couch bed because she's so overweight and who lives thousands of miles away as the emergency contact, but when it comes to actually needing help, we get the call.

My dh, who is so incredibly patient with my mom, almost didn't go with me to help last night. He basically said my mom should call 911 or hey, call my sister in NJ and have her come pick my mom up. He's disgusted still with last fall and everything leading up to it, and very disgusted that my mom uses me for help. And he's a very decent kind of guy in this area, so that's saying something.

So...what would you do? If the call comes that she needs to be picked up, would you go? Would you tell her to call 911? What if my brother calls and not my mom?

Or maybe a better way to phrase this would be: Would you just be the bigger person and go pick my mom up, knowing it takes just a few minutes, and just not cause any more angst and stress between you/her and the rest of your siblings?

I guess I should also say that right now, my heart is pretty raw because I just had a Big Birthday, and my mom asked what I wanted. I told her the one thing I wanted - nothing else, just one thing and it wouldn't cost her a penny. Silence from her, and my birthday came and went. So the realization was there (again) that despite her saying she'll do whatever it takes to mend the relationship is a lie, yet she'll take my help lifting her up off the floor again.

And then I think of how I treat the God I claim to love and how many times He lifts me up in spite of my actions/behavior. Over and over and over...never failing love. I'd like to be like that...but I'm struggling which makes me feel horrible.

OK, that's all.

[Rosie_0801]

I'd go get her up *and* dob her into social services.

[Drama Llama]

If I got a call that she had fallen, I would call 911 for her and make it clear to my siblings that they should bypass you and call 911.

An exercise machine for someone who can’t get off the floor sounds very unsafe.  My mom, who had more mobility at the time, was very badly hurt by a fall on a treadmill.

[City Mouse]

If you get contacted by mom or by a sibling, you can call 911 for her. 
 

I doubt that a home exercise machine is going to make any difference. She could probably benefit from physical therapy which can be done in home.

Edited June 19, 2023 by City Mouse

[prairiewindmomma]

From an outside situation, this seems like a no brainer: refuse to pick her up, and call 911 for her. If she is so weak that she can’t get herself up, she is unsafe to be home alone and needs a different living situation.

This isn’t about showing unfailing love or about being a bigger person. The fact that you are framing that this way just goes to show how deep her abuse of you has been. Your Dh is trying to show you that by refusing to continue this nonsense. 

Edited June 19, 2023 by prairiewindmomma

[YaelAldrich]

G-d loves you and loves you but I bet you are not abusing Him. Even if you think you are abusing G-d's good graces, He is there to guide you to do and be good in His eyes.  In contrast,  your mother is abusing you and is not there to guide to be good and do good.  There is no comparison. 

Call 911 and get her the help she needs. 

[Drama Llama]

Sometimes God sends help that doesn’t look like what you would have chosen but turns out to be the right thing.

Getting her connected to social services and helping her see that her current plan of calling your siblings isn’t the right one can be the kind loving godlike thing and can be accomplished by calling 911.

[Katy]

Tell your siblings the number for local dispatch so they can direct dial and be connected to them without being transferred a dozen times. She needs to be in a nursing home snd she knows it, but that’s their problem at this point, not yours. 

[SKL]

I agree with helping her by calling 911 and getting her connected with some service that will help provide a safer living situation.

[QueenCat]

I would call 911. Primarily because they can help her in a safer way. 

[lmrich]

Call 911 - you can also sustain an injury helping her get back up. If  you are feeling compassionate, you can go and be there with 911 to let them in  so they don't break the door open. 

 

[Tiberia]

Your mom is now, in a roundabout way, using you to manipulate the medical system again. I know you have made great strides in pulling yourself out of her web, yet here you are again.

I would stop going over there. Have sis or bro call the local-to-mom 911, and not you. Someone who is falling on a regular basis like this really needs more services than they are receiving. At some point, the fall is going to be more substantial and she will be forced into the situation that she is trying so hard to avoid. But she needs to be somewhere safer, now. 

I'm with team dH on this one. Let mom's consequences fall on mom, not you. She is not safe where she is.

[Spryte]

911 is the answer. They can do it safely, and she needs to be assessed when she falls. 

[Bambam]

I helped an elderly lady several times who had health issues. She would call me to come take her to the ER. I would go over, do a quick evaluation, and generally called 911. They are helpful. They know what they are doing - vs the general layperson. It never was a fall, but stroke, heart attack, etc - she would not tell me that over the phone just ask me to come over and take her to the ER because she wasn't feeling well. One time she told me she could not remember what to call, so she just called me. I was at the point, I was just going to call 911 for her and go over and hope to get there before them so I could let them in. Fortunately, her relatives came and took her home with them - probably mostly because she found out I was keeping them informed and she was furious that I was letting them know about her health issues so she was so weak she was willing to go stay with them temporarily (but it wasn't).

I'd call 911 for her or send appropriate phone number to call to your siblings. She needs to be evaluated and potentially moved somewhere else if she is falling on a regular basis. I imagine it is hard if it is your mom, but I think it is time to stand back, let the 911 folks handle or your siblings. I'd watch. Being somewhere there is regular help if you are regularly falling is a good idea. Being alone in a home is not. 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Bambam

[saraha]

My bff was in this spot not too long ago. Her mother’s bad health was getting the better of her and she leaned heavily on bff. Repeatedly falling, needing bff to do things for her, house turned into a hoarding situation, and expected bff to jump anytime she called, and she’s not particularly nice to bff. One time she fell and bff was at a school thing with her children and didn’t want to leave so told her mother to call 911. Oh the dramatics and guilt that ensued. The situation had reached the point of being ridiculous and she had gotten so heavy it was hard for bff to even get her up anyway. Bff decided that day to not help her when she fell telling her to call 911. A few times of that and her mother became much more open to the situation she lives in now. But the guilt heaped on bff is never ending. 
Im sorry you are in this darned if you do darned if you don’t place.

Would she wear one of those life alert things?

Edited June 19, 2023 by saraha

[bolt.]

I agree with the majority here: a loving, kind, answer is, "I will contact an ambulance to come and give her the help she needs." Possibly, if it seems like a positive choice for you and for her, you could go over and supervise/support her while she waits for the paramedics and while the paramedics do their thing.

I don't know when/where/how you bought the lie that 'a personal family helping hand' is more loving and/or a better choice than 'competent professional medical care'. I know that lots of people believe that lie, and lots of people propagate it. It may have seeped into your worldview long ago. But. It's. Not. True.

You can let go of that lie.

It's loving and kind to connect people with the medical care they need. To 'protect' them from medical attention and keep them away from the services of a social worker actually is a disservice. Yes, lots of people like a personal touch *in addition* to medical care, for their emotional comfort. As long as they don't mistreat their family members, that's  positive role for family. But *replacing* medical care with a personal visit from a family member is not actually the good, kind, loving, or Christian thing to do to someone.

Even if they want you to.

Even if it 'feels warmer' and 'looks better' to outsiders or other members of the family. (You may come off 'looking like the bad guy'.)

Be consistent: If you are called to help, you will make a call for help on her behalf. (Once everyone knows what you will do, they will be able to make their own decisions about whether or not they want to involve you.)

Edited June 19, 2023 by bolt.

[Carol in Cal.]

I’d have a zoom call with the siblings.

I’d say, Look, Mom is literally betting her life on being able to call for help strongly enough for Alexa to act, and on Alexa being up and running and functional and able to hear her.  This is too dangerous to be sustainable now that she is falling without being able to get up so often.  She needs a different living situation, right away.  Either significant professional help in the home, 12-24 hours per day, or assisted living.

[bolt.]

1 minute ago, Carol in Cal. said:

I’d have a zoom call with the siblings.

I’d say, Look, Mom is literally betting her life on being able to call for help strongly enough for Alexa to act, and on Alexa being up and running and functional and able to hear her.  This is too dangerous to be sustainable now that she is falling without being able to get up so often.  She needs a different living situation, right away.  Either significant professional help in the home, 12-24 hours per day, or assisted living.

That's one option.

But kids of narcissists also need to know that it is totally a human freedom that Mom has, if she wants to bet her life on Alexa, to go ahead and bet her life on Alexa. Nobody actually needs to stop her from doing that if she is going to be stubborn. If she isn't under anybody's legal guardianship/equivalent, they actually *can't* stop her from doing that other than by gaining her cooperation through relationship actions. (And it's up to them what constitutes a reasonable effort to try to convince her to make a change.)

[Indigo Blue]

@bolt your posts are really insightful and helpful, and I don’t just mean the ones in this thread. 
 

I hope I’m not detailing the thread, but how do you know how or when this slips into being elder abuse? Maybe this will be helpful to the OP as well. My parents don’t require care as of yet. My mom has instilled a fear of nursing homes in me. My dad is stubborn (and has no relationship with me). His health is slipping and its possible  I could be right where the OP is now. He absolutely does not want to leave his home. 
 

What I mean by slipping into elder abuse is where is the line on letting consequences fall where they may and neglect? 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Indigo Blue

[Carol in Cal.]

35 minutes ago, bolt. said:

That's one option.

But kids of narcissists also need to know that it is totally a human freedom that Mom has, if she wants to bet her life on Alexa, to go ahead and bet her life on Alexa. Nobody actually needs to stop her from doing that if she is going to be stubborn. If she isn't under anybody's legal guardianship/equivalent, they actually *can't* stop her from doing that other than by gaining her cooperation through relationship actions. (And it's up to them what constitutes a reasonable effort to try to convince her to make a change.)

It’s true, but if the siblings agreed to approach her with a united position that said:

1.  You need to either hire in house help during all your waking hours or 24/7, or move to assisted living

and

2.  From now on if we hear that you have fallen and alone, we are going to call for professional help, because you’ve reached the point where these occurrences are so frequent that your risk of serious injury being exacerbated by the OP’s amateur attempts to help you up are unacceptably high. 

But

3.  We expect you not to be alone any longer, because you are not safe alone.

Then it might shock her into making a change.  But even if not, it would get her better care AND get the local sister and the siblings aligned in pushing for that rather than this bandaid approach that depends entirely on just one person all the time.

[bolt.]

23 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

@bolt your posts are really insightful and helpful, and I don’t just mean the ones in this thread. 
 

I hope I’m not detailing the thread, but how do you know how or when this slips into being elder abuse? Maybe this will be helpful to the OP as well. My parents don’t require care as of yet. My mom has instilled a fear of nursing homes in me. My dad is stubborn (and has no relationship with me). His health is slipping and its possible  I could be right where the OP is now. He absolutely does not want to leave his home. 
 

What I mean by slipping into elder abuse is where is the line on letting consequences fall where they may and neglect? 

I assume "elder abuse" is a formal term with a legal definition in most jurisdictions. So, the data might vary from place to place, but it should be simple enough to find a definition for your own relevant location(s).

However, in general, one can not abuse a person if one is not responsible for that person. (Which is why punching your child is abuse, but punching someone else's child is assault.) When an adult is deemed legally competent for themself, and there is not a relationship of dependence established with anyone, no one can 'abuse' them simply by simple non-action (like not forcing them into wise decisions about their own health). Other forms of abuse (that don't require a dependency relationship) might be financial, verbal abuse, controlling behaviour, or actions that would be criminal if you did them to anyone (like assault).

Having no relationship with one's parents is very likely a legally acceptable option. Most countries don't have laws of filial obligation. I suggest that you make it clear in writing (now, while he is competent) that you will not be taking an active role in decision making or elder care for him. If you have that, there wouldn't be any grounds for an abuse claim, I imagine.

The potential for abuse revolves around accepting certain responsibilities, then failing to live up to them, without providing for a reasonable transition to some other means of meeting that need (ie taking them to the hospital, calling social services, etc.). Therefore be careful and thoughtful (long term) what responsibilities you accept, and you should be fine.

Edited June 19, 2023 by bolt.

[Indigo Blue]

Thank you, @bolt..

[gardenmom5]

I'd refuse to play her games.

If she wants your help, SHE needs to actually call you.  If she does a "woe is me", to her children who live in another state and can't actually do anything to help - they need to tell her to either call you (NOT them calling you on her behalf) or call 911 and remind her they're in another state and can't actually do anything to help.

eta: when my mom was falling, I finally had to put my foot down and said "enough, you are NOT going back to your condo, you have to go to a senior living facility."  She wasn't happy, but I didn't give her a choice.
I eventually had to get her into one with medical personnel who could give her her meds.  (the residents were in small apartments.) She was finally stable, until she wasn't and died.

Edited June 19, 2023 by gardenmom5

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, Carol in Cal. said:

  to call for professional help, because you’ve reached the point where these occurrences are so frequent that your risk of serious injury being exacerbated by the OP’s amateur attempts to help you up are unacceptably high. 

B 

What needs to also be addressed - senior facilities have lift devices to help residents who've fallen.  Providers must use them so the *provider* isn't injured.
It's not just mom being put at risk with her falls, whomever is trying to help her up is also being put at risk of an injury.

[Grace Hopper]

2 hours ago, Indigo Blue said:

@bolt your posts are really insightful and helpful, and I don’t just mean the ones in this thread. 
 

I hope I’m not detailing the thread, but how do you know how or when this slips into being elder abuse? Maybe this will be helpful to the OP as well. My parents don’t require care as of yet. My mom has instilled a fear of nursing homes in me. My dad is stubborn (and has no relationship with me). His health is slipping and its possible  I could be right where the OP is now. He absolutely does not want to leave his home. 
 

What I mean by slipping into elder abuse is where is the line on letting consequences fall where they may and neglect? 

Elder abuse is when you are actively neglecting someone *you have accepted responsibility for* and often includes financial fraud. (IANAL, that’s my definition based on experience.)

It’s not elder abuse if you have told family you are unable to be that responsible party and you don’t live in the same house. You can call Adult Protective Services if you feel she is in danger. Whether or not your mother chooses to accept those services is up to her. 
 

It sounds harsh but I say this based on the past circumstances you’ve (OP) described here about your mom: I believe she moved near you precisely to pin you into the position of providing elder care for her, by sheer proximity and guilt. Just because she thinks that will happen, doesn’t make it so. Let your siblings know you will not be responding to her calls to falls but will call 911 on her behalf. Truly, if a person of size is regularly falling, they need skilled assistance. 
 

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Grace Hopper

[Carol in Cal.]

45 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

What needs to also be addressed - senior facilities have lift devices to help residents who've fallen.  Providers must use them so the *provider* isn't injured.
It's not just mom being put at risk with her falls, whomever is trying to help her up is also being put at risk of an injury.

Right, but unfortunately that does not sound like it is an argument that would sway this particular mother.

[Grace Hopper]

49 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

What needs to also be addressed - senior facilities have lift devices to help residents who've fallen.  Providers must use them so the *provider* isn't injured.
It's not just mom being put at risk with her falls, whomever is trying to help her up is also being put at risk of an injury.

This is a good point that was emphasized to us in the course of elder care. Often a family member assisting a person who is a fall risk can earn an unintended consequence. One of my elders would not comply with fall prevention recommendations and relied on his much smaller spouse. The family doctor told us that was a dangerous situation because if he fell on top of her, and she couldn’t extricate herself, they could both lie on the floor helpless for a long time. The doc said the spouse getting fallen upon hits the floor first with force and he’d seen couples die together as a result. Very sad. OP you didn’t say exactly how large you mom is, but consider if you are *safely* able to get her up without injuring yourself. 
 

In a perfect world, parents and children would have mature, caring relationships enabling elder care needs to be reasonably met. But when FOO life is dysfunctional and abusive, be careful about taking on obligations. 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Grace Hopper

[Katy]

Assisted Living isn’t a nursing home and has neither the safety or the oversight of a nursing home. IF you get involved at all, point that out. Someone who has frequent falls needs a wheelchair and possibly physical therapy. She does not need a private apartment where she’s only checked on a few times a day. 

[Grace Hopper]

Just now, Carol in Cal. said:

Right, but unfortunately that does not sound like it is an argument that would sway this particular mother.

Not the mother - the kids are the ones to be fully aware that their attempts to lift her could be dangerous. I agree with you the mom as described would probably brush off that as a concern. 

[Indigo Blue]

17 hours ago, BakersDozen said:

but I'm struggling which makes me feel horrible.

Are you saying that the idea of not helping your fallen parent but instead calling 911 for them makes you feel horrible? I’m not where you are, but I can surely understand the mixed up feelings and guilt you are feeling.  So I get it. I think the advice in the thread is good. Try to find comfort in all the wise ladies telling you the burden shouldn’t all be on you, mentally or physically. But I know this is hard. 

Edited June 19, 2023 by Indigo Blue
Typo

[Indigo Blue]

30 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

It sounds harsh but I say this based on the past circumstances you’ve described here about your mom: I believe she moved near you precisely to pin you into the position of providing elder care for her, by sheer proximity and guilt. Just because she thinks that will happen, doesn’t make it so. Let your siblings know you will not be responding to her calls to falls but will call 911 on her behalf. Truly, if a person of size is regularly falling, they need skilled assistance. 

You quoted me, but I’m assuming this part was for the OP, right?

 

My mom has my sibling living with her. If it should come to that, it would be a matter of supporting and or working with sibling, while being careful about what to take on. My dad lives alone, is difficult, and doesn’t ever want to leave his home. So I can see the potential to be in OP’s shoes at some point. 

[Grace Hopper]

2 minutes ago, Indigo Blue said:

You quoted me, but I’m assuming this part was for the OP, right?

 

My mom has my sibling living with her. If it should come to that, it would be a matter of supporting and or working with sibling, while being careful about what to take on. My dad lives alone, is difficult, and doesn’t ever want to leave his home. So I can see the potential to be in OP’s shoes at some point. 

Yes, sorry, I went back and inserted that. IIRC, OP’s mother lived far away, moved near OP a while back and reintroduced a lot of grief. 

[Indigo Blue]

1 minute ago, Grace Hopper said:

Yes, sorry, I went back and inserted that. IIRC, OP’s mother lived far away, moved near OP a while back and reintroduced a lot of grief. 

It’s fine. I just wanted to make sure. 🙂

[Spryte]

A practical thought: do you happen to have an iPhone? Do you use the sleep focus function? You can essentially put your phone on Do Not Disturb during the night time hours, if that’s when these calls are coming. Choose the people in your contact list from whom you’d still want to receive calls (DH, kids, your BFF), everything else will go to voicemail. I’m sure other phones have similar functions.

[YaelAldrich]

Android phones also have this capability.  And you can set it however you wish. 

[Faith-manor]

I would call 911. You will wreck your back if you are heaving on her alone, and one of these times she might break something and it would be very bad to get her up. It is time to let the professionals do their thing. I would block her phone number at night I think android phones do have an AP for that.

My mother in law refuses to wear a neck brace or use her walker. She refuses to take up her throw rugs, braided rugs she made that flip of over easily. She has cervical vertebra deterioration and is a huge fall and break neck risk. she has fallen a few times and then called us. Mark finally told her it is too big a liability for him to get her up. She must call 911. He will meet her at the ER if EMS transports her. What else is there? She won't cooperate, and if he moves her, she could end up alive but a quadriplegic. 

Don't feel guilty, and do not let her gaslight you about it.

[gardenmom5]

6 hours ago, Katy said:

Assisted Living isn’t a nursing home and has neither the safety or the oversight of a nursing home. IF you get involved at all, point that out. Someone who has frequent falls needs a wheelchair and possibly physical therapy. She does not need a private apartment where she’s only checked on a few times a day. 

senior living and assisted living are two different things.

The senior living my mother was in had apartments from studio to one or even two bedrooms. (she was in two different facilities, one only for a couple months. I investigated a lot.) They provided meals, activities, and light housekeeping. Some group transportation. residents were in apartments, which had pull strings in the bathroom, and somewhere else for an emergency.  If someone fell, they called 911 as they didn't have the equipment to lift a resident and weren't going to take on the liability.  They do not have health care professionals on staff.

Assisted living should offer different levels of medical support, many will have a nursing home wing. 

The assisted living facility my mother was in had a memory care locked unit as well as studio or one-bedroom apartments for more independent residents.  Light housekeeping.  Emergency pull cords in rooms.  Meals provided, including the medical option for finely chopped food for those who have difficulty swallowing. (for a fee).  They had RNs on staff, and would dispense medication (for a fee, and necessary for my mother as she would double or forget doses.)  Patients were more supervised than in a senior living facility. (option for more frequent checks, and escorts - for a fee.) 
anyway - there were a lot of options for what services they would provide, up to nursing home level care. While they were able to start CPR on my mom, they had to call 911 to fully treat her. 

Someone with frequent falls shouldn't be by themselves, and they shouldn't be in a senior living facility (they will require them to leave as they are a liability.)  They shouldn't even be living at home with family.
 

a dear friend kept her son at home until he was 21, and no longer received state benefits unless he was in a facility.  She had a repetitive shoulder injury from lifting him that required surgery to repair.

 

Edited June 20, 2023 by gardenmom5

[gardenmom5]

6 hours ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Right, but unfortunately that does not sound like it is an argument that would sway this particular mother.

I guess I just got tired of the games my grandmother played, and refused to play.
My mother wasn't as bad as her mother, but I still did a "you can go to the hospital, or you can take care of yourself because I'm not".  (paramedics couldn't' force her to go to the hospital because she was conscious and coherent. They called me to talk her into going.)   "the hospital is releasing you (she dislocated her shoulder in a fall), you can come to my house while you heal, or you can take care of yourself in your apartment."  (my grandmother always wanted us to beg.  I will not beg.)
Mom- you keep falling.  You cannot stay in your apartment, it's not safe.  period.  no discussion.  what kind of place would you like to move to next?  assisted living?  senior group home?  (yes, some provide that level of care.)  You can tell me what features you would like and come with me to look at places, or I will find something - but you aren't going back to your apartment, it's not safe. period. no discussion.

 

[BakersDozen]

13 hours ago, Grace Hopper said:

OP you didn’t say exactly how large you mom is, but consider if you are *safely* able to get her up without injuring yourself. 

She's of a weight/build that I can get her up by myself if need be (thankfully, I have not let up on my workouts which have come in mighty handy as far as my own strength/ability). I've been trained in how to lift her as well, however I usually have another person with me whether dh or one of my young adult kids (one of whom has paramedic training). All that being said, I know it would be easy for me to injure myself which definitely has me cautious. And when I go to my mom's house, I never attempt to lift until I've assessed her and then talked through the process I'll use depending on her position. I would not lift unless I felt it was safe and have called 911 on one occasion almost 2 years ago rather than try.

 

 

12 hours ago, Spryte said:

A practical thought: do you happen to have an iPhone?

Oh gosh, no. I have a marvelous old flip phone that I love. But I do have a home phone in my bedroom, dh has his cell phone at all times by him, and I have the house phone in the kitchen on full volume.

 

 

14 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

f she wants your help, SHE needs to actually call you. 

This was something that really shocked me this last time - that her Alexa device has my brother and sister as emergency contacts. She's fallen in her bedroom/bathroom too many times, and it's not my number that's at the top of the emergency call list?? I mean if she doesn't want me on that list, fine, but then why have my brother call me from CA late at night? It's so messed up...
 

 

16 hours ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Mom is literally betting her life on being able to call for help strongly enough for Alexa to act, and on Alexa being up and running and functional and able to hear her.  This is too dangerous to be sustainable now that she is falling without being able to get up so often.

Twice now I have found my mom on the floor in such a way that my first thought was, "This is it...she's ending up in the hospital or something." She hit her head on the wall once so hard, and this last time I don't know how she missed hitting her bedframe or sharp windowsill. What angers me a lot, now that I'm thinking more on this, is that my brother has not seen her on the floor. He lives his safe, Mom-free life (save for phone calls most days at her request) and doesn't have to deal with this. My dh has seen my mom in worse situations than her own son. You are right - this is too dangerous. But I'm the only one right now of my siblings who is actually in-person, on-site seeing this. And my brother would not upset his carefully staged life to actually come out here and do anything. My older sister (the one in charge of my mom - ha!) can't lift anything beyond her cigarettes and phone to call my mom for more money. And that money is what keeps my sister from pushing for assisted living or in-home care; anything my mom spends, my sister can't get. She is really...something.

I've not gotten a phone call yesterday or today so that's good. Thank you all for the advice and for sharing your own experiences.



 

[Katy]

9 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

senior living and assisted living are two different things.

The senior living my mother was in had apartments from studio to one or even two bedrooms. (she was in two different facilities, one only for a couple months. I investigated a lot.) They provided meals, activities, and light housekeeping. Some group transportation. residents were in apartments, which had pull strings in the bathroom, and somewhere else for an emergency.  If someone fell, they called 911 as they didn't have the equipment to lift a resident and weren't going to take on the liability.  They do not have health care professionals on staff.

Assisted living should offer different levels of medical support, many will have a nursing home wing. 

The assisted living facility my mother was in had a memory care locked unit as well as studio or one-bedroom apartments for more independent residents.  Light housekeeping.  Emergency pull cords in rooms.  Meals provided, including the medical option for finely chopped food for those who have difficulty swallowing. (for a fee).  They had RNs on staff, and would dispense medication (for a fee, and necessary for my mother as she would double or forget doses.)  Patients were more supervised than in a senior living facility. (option for more frequent checks, and escorts - for a fee.) 
anyway - there were a lot of options for what services they would provide, up to nursing home level care. While they were able to start CPR on my mom, they had to call 911 to fully treat her. 

Someone with frequent falls shouldn't be by themselves, and they shouldn't be in a senior living facility (they will require them to leave as they are a liability.)  They shouldn't even be living at home with family.
 

a dear friend kept her son at home until he was 21, and no longer received state benefits unless he was in a facility.  She had a repetitive shoulder injury from lifting him that required surgery to repair.

 

While the place your mother was in might have been a good one, there’s an entire PBS Frontline on the scam that Assisted Living is and how many people in them should be in a licensed nursing home with legally required licensed staffing ratios.

Someone who is frequently falling needs to have a room near a nurses station in a wheelchair with an alarm on to alert staff when she tries to stand up. She should never be walking without at least a CNA there to help. 

[Bambam]

4 hours ago, BakersDozen said:

<snip>
What angers me a lot, now that I'm thinking more on this, is that my brother has not seen her on the floor. He lives his safe, Mom-free life (save for phone calls most days at her request) and doesn't have to deal with this. My dh has seen my mom in worse situations than her own son. You are right - this is too dangerous. But I'm the only one right now of my siblings who is actually in-person, on-site seeing this. 
<snip>

 

Would it be appropriate and respectful to snap a picture and send that to your brother and your sister? I know I would hate to have my picture taken if I had fallen and could not get up, but maybe sharing these images with your siblings will help them understand the fact that the continued falling isn't safe for our Mom?  But I would be okay with the picture taking, I think, for this reason. I think. I'm not sure though. 

[gardenmom5]

6 hours ago, BakersDozen said:

 This was something that really shocked me this last time - that her Alexa device has my brother and sister as emergency contacts. She's fallen in her bedroom/bathroom too many times, and it's not my number that's at the top of the emergency call list?? I mean if she doesn't want me on that list, fine, but then why have my brother call me from CA late at night? It's so messed up...
 

 

 

Who set up the Alexa?  Does your mom have that skill or did someone else set it up?  Does you mom understand that the way Alexa is set up, it won't call you in an emergency?  Does she only use Alexa to call in emergencies or does she have a separate phone?
who does *your mom* want to be her primary emergency contact?

I'm sorry your sister is this way.  My brother was like this. I kept trying to figure out a way to get him legally cut off for elder abuse, I really didn't know with whom to speak.   He became even more bold, and engaged in his machinations in front of ER drs. The nurses he manipulated and "charmed" (there's one that if I'd realized what was happening at the time, I would have filed a complaint with her supervisor. It was egregious enough, it would have gotten her a reprimand.) - but the Dr recognized what was happening and he was irate. He had hospital security standing by to throw him out on my say-so. (after he ran it past the hospital's lawyers).  I'm so sorry I told him to tell him what he wanted to hear, and he'd voluntarily leave. (which he did.) I should have had him thrown out so the entitled boy might have gotten the message he overstepped by a mile.

Start taking pictures of your mom on the floor.  Start documenting every single time she's on the floor.   You can take this information to her dr, and get him on your side to get her in a more appropriate facility, even if she gets mad about it.  Who does your mother have as her POA?

Edited June 20, 2023 by gardenmom5

[Laura Corin]

If your mother has mental capacity, she is deciding to fall.  She is responsible for it, because she is living in a way that does not mitigate that risk.  As she is an adult making that decision, she should deal with the consequences, which are that she needs to sort out her fall herself.  If she can't physically call for an ambulance, then it is kind to do that for her, but you are not obliged to clear up after her poor (or manipulative) decision making. 

My mother was at the other end of the spectrum - she refused all help from family - but the outcome was the same: a hospital stay followed, eventually, by a move into a care home.

ETA: I'm sure this sounds harsh, but old people are still adults, and it is a form of respect to acknowledge their decisions as valid, however wrong they seem.

Edited June 20, 2023 by Laura Corin

[Faith-manor]

5 hours ago, Laura Corin said:

If your mother has mental capacity, she is deciding to fall.  She is responsible for it, because she is living in a way that does not mitigate that risk.  As she is an adult making that decision, she should deal with the consequences, which are that she needs to sort out her fall herself.  If she can't physically call for an ambulance, then it is kind to do that for her, but you are not obliged to clear up after her poor (or manipulative) decision making. 

My mother was at the other end of the spectrum - she refused all help from family - but the outcome was the same: a hospital stay followed, eventually, by a move into a care home.

ETA: I'm sure this sounds harsh, but old people are still adults, and it is a form of respect to acknowledge their decisions as valid, however wrong they seem.

This a thousand times.

At some point, unless declared incompetent, we have to honor their wishes. This is why my mother in law is going to end up dead from a broken neck in her home. We will let it happen. It is clearly what she is determined to allow. I can't stop the train wreck. I also do not have to allow it to ruin my life, my marriage, make me crazy. My brother in law said, "Mark, let her do it. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes." You can't make them do what is medically right. It is HARD! But eventually, you do have to make peace with it so you do not go nuts, and cause your own health to tank.

This is call 911 every single time. Eventually it will get on the radar of the hospital social worker, and sometimes they can get elderly folks to do things that family can't.

[saraha]

20 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

This a thousand times.

At some point, unless declared incompetent, we have to honor their wishes. This is why my mother in law is going to end up dead from a broken neck in her home. We will let it happen. It is clearly what she is determined to allow. I can't stop the train wreck. I also do not have to allow it to ruin my life, my marriage, make me crazy. My brother in law said, "Mark, let her do it. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes." You can't make them do what is medically right. It is HARD! But eventually, you do have to make peace with it so you do not go nuts, and cause your own health to tank.

This is call 911 every single time. Eventually it will get on the radar of the hospital social worker, and sometimes they can get elderly folks to do things that family can't.

Yup, my 80 yo fil still insists on doing jobs around the farm he has no business doing. He just will not let the boys take over. They have discussed and all come to terms with the idea he is probably going out because of a piece of machinery. Even fil’s brothers are like, this is dumb and you are dangerous. So the boys and the grandsons have all gotten to the point where they will not stop him from doing what he wants but they will not put themselves in harms way just because he tells them to.