What the heck

[Terabith]

was up with 80's/ 90's health and nutritional information????  We really had to memorize that we were supposed to have 6-11 servings of bread and cereals in a day.  Like, was it all funded by Big Bread?

[Ann.without.an.e]

I remember the breakfast posters would show cereal and toast. Both. Even in the 90’s when carbs were pushed that seemed so weird to me. 
ETA: I’m referring to like a pic of a sample breakfast. 

Edited May 24, 2023 by Ann.without.an.e

[Katy]

A serving was one slice of whole grain bread, or 1/2 cup of grain or pasta. So 6-11 servings isn’t as much as you might think if you’re eating whole foods instead of hyperprocessed ones with lots of extra sugar (corn syrup), salt (msg), and fat (hydrgenated). It’s only about 480-880 calories. Many science based whole foods vegan diet doctors still call for the same thing. 
 

eta: with the fiber & without the chemicals it’s still pretty good for you.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Katy

[Ausmumof3]

It’s interesting that as a society where most people have grown up with so much “education” around nutrition we have a much poorer diet nutritionally than many societies who just eat their natural foods around them. I think science did get taken over by marketing too much.

[Shoeless]

10 minutes ago, Terabith said:

was up with 80's/ 90's health and nutritional information????  We really had to memorize that we were supposed to have 6-11 servings of bread and cereals in a day.  Like, was it all funded by Big Bread?

I mean, yeah, kind of.  Processed food companies benefited greatly during this time period.  There was a lot of "research" being funded to support carb-heavy eating, which demonized fats, eggs, etc.

[Terabith]

17 minutes ago, Shoeless said:

I mean, yeah, kind of.  Processed food companies benefited greatly during this time period.  There was a lot of "research" being funded to support carb-heavy eating, which demonized fats, eggs, etc.

Yeah, apparently my mom has done absolutely no nutritional research since 1970.  She called me up the other day and said, "Did you know it's okay to eat avocados now????"

The woman also spent my entire childhood swearing up and down that water had calories.  

She's very befuddled by the fact that it's okay to eat eggs and butter now too.

[knitgrl]

Ds24's favorite school lunch circa 2005 was pancakes, tater tots and applesauce. 😂

[Shoeless]

2 hours ago, Terabith said:

Yeah, apparently my mom has done absolutely no nutritional research since 1970.  She called me up the other day and said, "Did you know it's okay to eat avocados now????"

The woman also spent my entire childhood swearing up and down that water had calories.  

She's very befuddled by the fact that it's okay to eat eggs and butter now too.

Gotta love it. 

I had some head-scratching moments with my dad recently. He's on a "low sodium diet" but eats mostly processed foods. But he doesn't salt his food at the table, because they're watching their sodium levels.  And they buy the low-sodium canned soup.   But absolutely no table salt! Sodium is bad!!!

Okay...

[Drama Llama]

The dieticians we’ve worked with in the past few years have all given similar recommendations when weight loss isn’t a goal and insulin resistance isn’t a concern.  

I make a lot of changes that sub lower carb foods, but my kids definitely eat at least 8 servings of grains and other high carb foods like potatoes or quinoa every day.  Often more than that and that doesn’t include things like fruit and legumes or sweet treats that add more carbs.

 

 

[Ann.without.an.e]

9 hours ago, Terabith said:

Yeah, apparently my mom has done absolutely no nutritional research since 1970.  She called me up the other day and said, "Did you know it's okay to eat avocados now????"

The woman also spent my entire childhood swearing up and down that water had calories.  

She's very befuddled by the fact that it's okay to eat eggs and butter now too.

 

Thats funny. It could be worse though lol. My parents have been on the carnivore kick. I have to listen to them tell me all.the.time how carcinogenic vegetables are and they rarely eat veggies. They don’t stick to it that great and when they go off of what is acceptable it’s for brownies or ice cream (not veggies). My dad had a heart attack and bypass surgery three years ago. So now he’s carnivore (lots of red meat) but he also still loves and eats ice cream and drinks sweet tea. It makes no sense. 

[Drama Llama]

6 hours ago, Shoeless said:

Gotta love it. 

I had some head-scratching moments with my dad recently. He's on a "low sodium diet" but eats mostly processed foods. But he doesn't salt his food at the table, because they're watching their sodium levels.  And they buy the low-sodium canned soup.   But absolutely no table salt! Sodium is bad!!!

Okay...

My mom talks about how she served us low salt before it was cool.  What she means is that she didn’t have a salt shaker on the table when we ate our rice a roni and kielbasa.  

[73349]

Um... the USDA guidelines are still heavily influenced by the food "industry." Compare My Plate--understanding that the USDA's mandate is to support US agriculture--with Canada's Food Guide, which is required to be based strictly on nutritional science.

[Ann.without.an.e]

20 minutes ago, 73349 said:

Um... the USDA guidelines are still heavily influenced by the food "industry." Compare My Plate--understanding that the USDA's mandate is to support US agriculture--with Canada's Food Guide, which is required to be based strictly on nutritional science.

 

It’s interesting that (unless I’m missing it) they don’t include dairy? As someone who was dairy allergic way before the vegan movement provided tons of alternatives, that is refreshing. I also don’t think that cows milk is supposed to be consumed by humans at all (unpopular opinion, I know). 
 

Other than the dairy, the break down of the plates is pretty similar. I love how Canada’s plate shows so much variety and examples though. It seems far more solid nutritionally. 

[Faith-manor]

10 hours ago, Terabith said:

was up with 80's/ 90's health and nutritional information????  We really had to memorize that we were supposed to have 6-11 servings of bread and cereals in a day.  Like, was it all funded by Big Bread?

Wonder Bread. Wonder Bread must have been backing that! 😂

Actually, to be honest, I think a lot of nutritional information has been manipulated by the Department of Ag and whatever Monsanto/ConAgra/Kellogg/Beachnut, etc. company was paying the biggest bribes to the leadership. I can remember when sugar was considered a health food, and sugar was included in the five food groups. 

I tend to look at what the EU says about things before I trust anything out of our government "health" authorities. The difference in recommendations is startling. I do think John Hopkins tries. I remember back in the early 2000s when they tried hard to blow the whistle on hydrogenated oils. Lots of backlash and the most that came from it was better labeling on foods, but if HG was in the food but else than a gram per serving, the AG department allowed it to be labeled as "no hydrogenated oils" which is a freaking lie to the American public.

[TechWife]

It’s very interesting to see what different cultures around the world eat for breakfast. The Hilton in Paris had the best breakfast buffet options I’ve ever seen - amazing. Truly something for everyone. This is a fun article - What Kids Around the World Eat for Breakfast

Dieting and nutrition is an industry that is concerned with making money, not with health.

FWIW, there’s a committee working on the 2025 dietary guidelines and they are open for public comment. You can attend committee meetings virtually as well. Get Involved.

[TechWife]

The health oriented messaging around diet is also bad. It’s incredibly siloed, with different recommendations targeting different body systems. The average person isn’t going to take the time to look at the heart healthy diet, the diabetic diet, bone health, for example. Adding to that, there’s been recent interest in brain diet. I think eye doctors would like to hear more about nutrition and eye health. There’s little to no good messaging around health lifestyles, which include health eating, but also include physical movement & practices that support mental health. Many recommendations of the focused marketing overlap, but some contradict each other and some are unattainable by different segments of our population.

We need more comprehensive public education around health indicators as a complete, integrated package of information that impacts overall health. It would be amazing if there was an initiative for companies to encourage the entire package, not just one little piece. It would be a drastic change of direction. Imagine if the companies that produce smoking cessation products, for example, made sure they were minimizing negative impacts on air quality? What if public policy was designed with these indicators at the forefront of everything? 
 

[Brittany1116]

DH and I came from farmers, but different commodities. Whatever gov is subsidizing, they are promoting as a basis of a healthy diet. I specifically remember the huge milk push of the 90s with every celeb wearing a milk mustache on huge posters all around the schools.

[Selkie]

48 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

 

It’s interesting that (unless I’m missing it) they don’t include dairy? As someone who was dairy allergic way before the vegan movement provided tons of alternatives, that is refreshing. I also don’t think that cows milk is supposed to be consumed by humans at all (unpopular opinion, I know). 
 

Other than the dairy, the break down of the plates is pretty similar. I love how Canada’s plate shows so much variety and examples though. It seems far more solid nutritionally. 

The Canada Food Guide emphasizes eating plants for protein. This sent the US animal ag industries into a tizzy, as they were panicky that the US might follow suit. But no worries for them: The US government is much more worried about keeping big business happy than they are about actual science and the health of their citizenry.

[saraha]

44 minutes ago, TechWife said:

 

FWIW, there’s a committee working on the 2025 dietary guidelines and they are open for public comment. You can attend committee meetings virtually as well. Get Involved.

Reading the public comments was fascinating. They seemed to boil down to three kinds. Get people on the panel not connected to ag or pharmaceutical companies, take the environment into account, and need to go more low carb.

[wintermom]

In Canada, our recommended food guide was partially funded by the Dairy board, so there was recommended number of servings of dairy products on the guide, along with the Dairy logo. Both the logo and the recommendation of dairy are gone. (I think it's included in a list of possible sources of protein).

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

3 hours ago, 73349 said:

Um... the USDA guidelines are still heavily influenced by the food "industry." Compare My Plate--understanding that the USDA's mandate is to support US agriculture--with Canada's Food Guide, which is required to be based strictly on nutritional science.

Both countries show half the plate fruits and vegetables, 1/4 grains and 1/4 protein. The only difference is that the US divides the fruit and vegetable side into 1/4 fruit and 1/4 vegetables. 

[Faith-manor]

51 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Both countries show half the plate fruits and vegetables, 1/4 grains and 1/4 protein. The only difference is that the US divides the fruit and vegetable side into 1/4 fruit and 1/4 vegetables. 

I noticed that.

Since my mom is type 2 and I want to remain a little lower on the glycemic index with food, my half of the plate is nearly always exclusively vegetables. I also think there should be more about the quality of the grains. Quinoa? Great. Polenta? Okay. White rice? Ya. Not so much.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Faith-manor

[Drama Llama]

1 minute ago, Faith-manor said:

I noticed that.

Since my mom is type 2 and I want to remain a little lower on the fly comic index with food, my half of the plate is nearly always exclusively vegetables. I also think there should be more about the quality of the grains. Quinoa? Great. Polenta? Okay. White rice? Ya. Not so much.

Both websites talk about the importance of whole grains.  

[Drama Llama]

45 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Both countries show half the plate fruits and vegetables, 1/4 grains and 1/4 protein. The only difference is that the US divides the fruit and vegetable side into 1/4 fruit and 1/4 vegetables. 

I think the biggest difference is that the US version is 1/4 protein and dairy (which isn't pictured on the plate) whereas the Canadian one combines dairy and protein into the same 1/4.  So, the US version is somewhat higher protein and lower carb than the Canadian.  

[Faith-manor]

6 minutes ago, BandH said:

Both websites talk about the importance of whole grains.  

True, but a lot of Americans think white rice is a whole grain, and white bread is as well. It is really startling how many do not know what whole grain means.

[HomeAgain]

I showed the original food pyramid to my kids a while back. One was horrified and one thought it was just right. 🤣

I honestly should do an analysis of what we eat (the normal folks, not the garbage-disposal-13yo).  See if our own food distribution is close to any of the more modern ones.

[Faith-manor]

Also, I remember the six week "health" course in 7th grade where the teacher had students keep a food journal and counted catsup on fries as two servings of vegetables, 3 if the student said they were generous with the condiment. She counted mustard as a vegetable as well.

Not a top shelf class. 🙄

[Jean in Newcastle]

28 minutes ago, BandH said:

I think the biggest difference is that the US version is 1/4 protein and dairy (which isn't pictured on the plate) whereas the Canadian one combines dairy and protein into the same 1/4.  So, the US version is somewhat higher protein and lower carb than the Canadian.  

Wait. Isn’t that the same thing?  1/4 protein and dairy is the same as 1/4 dairy and protein. They don’t show an extra 1/4 that is separate from the protein.  For one thing, that would be more than one whole plate if you had 1/2 fruits and vegetables (no matter the ratio of fruits vs vegetables), 1/4 grains, 1/4 protein and then yet another 1/4 dairy. 
 

Our relatives in Canada don’t have any special nutritional knowledge. Some eat very nutritiously, some don’t. Same as our relatives in the US. I can see a difference in the nutritional quality of foods provided based on people’s socioeconomic class - many lower income people eat cheap highly processed foods that don’t require as much cooking time. But even that isn’t a hard and fast thing because lower income people can also provide nutritional meals for their family. 

[Shoeless]

9 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Also, I remember the six week "health" course in 7th grade where the teacher had students keep a food journal and counted catsup on fries as two servings of vegetables, 3 if the student said they were generous with the condiment. She counted mustard as a vegetable as well.

Not a top shelf class. 🙄

I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. 

I grew up with people who swore potatoes and corn were veggies. Peas and Lima beans, too.

[Murphy101]

2 hours ago, Faith-manor said:

Also, I remember the six week "health" course in 7th grade where the teacher had students keep a food journal and counted catsup on fries as two servings of vegetables, 3 if the student said they were generous with the condiment. She counted mustard as a vegetable as well.

Not a top shelf class. 🙄

I hated those things. I was a typical neglected latch key kid who was making do with a steady diet of pop tarts and peanutbutter with fake syrup wonder bread sandwiches, occasionally shaken up by Salisbury steak and pearl onion in peas frozen tv dinners.

Yeah I have a bad heart due to genetics and childhood environment both trying to kill me - but my remains will be well preserved for centuries thanks to a tremendous about of sugar salt and msg bonded to every cell I have.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Murphy101

[ArteHaus]

6 hours ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

 

It’s interesting that (unless I’m missing it) they don’t include dairy? As someone who was dairy allergic way before the vegan movement provided tons of alternatives, that is refreshing. I also don’t think that cows milk is supposed to be consumed by humans at all (unpopular opinion, I know). 

Have you considered raw milk vs. pasteurized? Raw milk has the opposite effect, as in protects against milk allergens. Pasteurized milk causes the allergy. Just a thought:)

[fairfarmhand]

3 minutes ago, ArteHaus said:

Have you considered raw milk vs. pasteurized? Raw milk has the opposite effect, as in protects against milk allergens. Pasteurized milk causes the allergy. Just a thought:)

Not always. My dairy allergy kid still reacts to my raw milk. But she was also allergic to breast milk so, she’s a special case I guess 

[ktgrok]

18 hours ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

I remember the breakfast posters would show cereal and toast. Both. Even in the 90’s when carbs were pushed that seemed so weird to me. 
ETA: I’m referring to like a pic of a sample breakfast. 

Even as a kid I noticed it was basically a complete breakfast BEFORE you added the cereal. 

[Terabith]

10 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Even as a kid I noticed it was basically a complete breakfast BEFORE you added the cereal. 

Yeah, I thought the same thing and also I knew that I felt lousy when I ate that many carbs, though I didn’t really have the vocabulary about all those things being carbohydrates. 

[Renai]

4 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Our relatives in Canada don’t have any special nutritional knowledge. Some eat very nutritiously, some don’t. Same as our relatives in the US. I can see a difference in the nutritional quality of foods provided based on people’s socioeconomic class - many lower income people eat cheap highly processed foods that don’t require as much cooking time. But even that isn’t a hard and fast thing because lower income people can also provide nutritional meals for their family. 

It is ridiculous how much more expensive it is to provide a nutritious meal as a low-income family, and that translates into the health system. Sometimes, it can cost 35-50% more to buy fresh goods. One program I like in our state is the farm-to-table, that brings fresh foods to the schools. Another program which is awesome, is buying from the farmer's market with an EBT card is 2 for 1. The state is paying the farmer the other half of the price. I don't know if other states do that, but I've loved being able to go to the nearby farmer's market over the summer and get double the amount of fresh veggies and fruits. With dh drinking 1-2 veggie smoothies daily with almost 10 different fresh produce to make them, it's gotten really expensive. But, it's been great for his health.

[Faith-manor]

7 hours ago, Murphy101 said:

I hated those things. I was a typical neglected latch key kid who was making do with a steady diet of pop tarts and peanutbutter with fake syrup wonder bread sandwiches, occasionally shaken up by Salisbury steak and pearl onion in peas frozen tv dinners.

Yeah I have a bad heart due to genetics and childhood environment both trying to kill me - but my remains will be well preserved for centuries thanks to a tremendous about of sugar salt and msg bonded to every cell I have.

Agreed. I mean, way to make kids feel that much more "sorted! And this teacher was a real jerk. She actually gave these journals letter grades, so of course the rich kids got A's because " ate seafood every week and exotic fruits and whatever", and the middle class kids B's, and low income students C's, and those in poverty D's and even F's. She was such a mean b$tch.

Edited May 25, 2023 by Faith-manor

[Murphy101]

1 hour ago, Faith-manor said:

Agreed. I mean, way to make kids feel that much more "sorted! And this teacher was a real jerk. She actually gave these journals letter grades, so of course the rich kids got A's because " ate seafood every week and exotic fruits and whatever", and the middle class kids B's, and low income students C's, and those in poverty D's and even F's. She was such a mean b$tch.

LOL. Right?  Some teachers sure were.  

[katilac]

On 5/23/2023 at 8:56 PM, Terabith said:

 She's very befuddled by the fact that it's okay to eat eggs and butter now too.

But those were indeed on the naughty list for a long time. Lots of people remain confused by the back-and-forthing on eggs in particular. 

[Drama Llama]

10 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Wait. Isn’t that the same thing?  1/4 protein and dairy is the same as 1/4 dairy and protein. They don’t show an extra 1/4 that is separate from the protein.  For one thing, that would be more than one whole plate if you had 1/2 fruits and vegetables (no matter the ratio of fruits vs vegetables), 1/4 grains, 1/4 protein and then yet another 1/4 dairy. 
 

Our relatives in Canada don’t have any special nutritional knowledge. Some eat very nutritiously, some don’t. Same as our relatives in the US. I can see a difference in the nutritional quality of foods provided based on people’s socioeconomic class - many lower income people eat cheap highly processed foods that don’t require as much cooking time. But even that isn’t a hard and fast thing because lower income people can also provide nutritional meals for their family. 

No, the American one says you should have 1/4 a plate of protein, 1/4 of carb, and 1/4 fruit and 1/4 vegetables, and a cup of milk.  

The Canadian one has a cup of water, so if you want milk, it will be part of the 1/4 protein.