Neighbors helping neighbors: How do you feel about this?

[Lady Florida.]

This thread is inspired by Hurricane Ian but I need to give a bit of background first.

I've lived in Florida most of my life - my family moved here when I was 13. I've lived in 9 different places including a mobile home, houses, apartments, and condos. I've lived with my mom and brother, alone, with roommates, and with dh, in these 9 different neighborhoods.

In every. single. one. when a storm was coming neighbors pitched in to help each other. It didn't matter whether you normally had contact with your neighbors, when a tropical storm or hurricane was on the way you help. You help older people bring in outdoor furniture, you help a single mom put up her shutters, you loan flashlights to new Floridians. You pitch in however you're able. Maybe all you can physically do is provide water to the helpers so that's your contribution. After the storm you help with either cleanup or taking shutters down or putting everything back outside. You just do. You don't expect anything in return. 

In our current neighborhood (we moved her 2.5 years ago) many of us were on the neighborhood facebook page offering help. While boarding up wasn't necessary here, a number of new Floridians or elderly people were scared and wanted their shutters up anyway so help was offered. 

There's a retired gentleman across the street who does handyman work for a small fee. If you need a shelf put up and don't know how or don't have the time, need minor repairs done, want a ceiling fan installed, etc. he's the guy. That's fine. It keeps him busy and brings in a little extra money as his wife is also retired. However - I found out yesterday that he offered to put shutters up for $75. I was floored. This couple has lived in this area of Florida about 10 years so they at least experienced Matthew and Irma. I just can't imagine neighbors charging neighbors for this kind of help. 

Am I being too hard on him? It's not like he has an actual handyman business and it's his living. If you live in an area where natural disasters happen do neighbors pitch in and help each other? 

Edit: This was the neighborhood facebook page. He was charging people in our very small subdivision. 

Edited October 2, 2022 by Lady Florida.

[Indigo Blue]

I see charging someone to install a fan but not for putting up shutters after a storm. 
 

Oh, I see you meant before the storm…..yes, the same. You should lend a hand. 

Edited October 2, 2022 by Indigo Blue

[Pawz4me]

Yes, neighbors here pitch in and help each other all the time (no natural disaster needed).

I don't think you're being too hard on the handyman neighbor. I think it's totally fine that he makes a few extra dollars putting up a ceiling fan or shelves during normal times, but IMO it's pretty tacky to try to charge neighbors for a little disaster prep assistance.

[prairiewindmomma]

I think you are being too hard on him. He is offering a handyman type service at a fair price and is available. I would happily pay to have had that done because my ability to lift shutters is limited.

No one should feel compelled to offer their labor for free. And, frankly, I am more comfortable with a handyman’s work than a neighbor’s on my house. 
 

—signed, me, who has done plenty of neighbors helping neighbors work for free

[Lady Florida.]

2 minutes ago, Pawz4me said:

IMO it's pretty tacky to try to charge neighbors for a little disaster prep assistance.

That's exactly what I thought.

[ikslo]

Neighbors is one thing. But once you start posting on Facebook, you are bound to have people taking advantage of you. I don’t blame him. Now, if he still charged his next door neighbor? Or the elderly widow a few doors down? Then yeah, I’m judging him. But someone on the other side of town who just doesn’t want to do it themselves, and he has to pay for gas and possible supplies? Good on him for making sure his offer of help doesn’t bite him in the rear.

[Lady Florida.]

2 minutes ago, prairiewindmomma said:

I think you are being too hard on him. He is offering a handyman type service at a fair price and is available. I would happily pay to have had that done because my ability to lift shutters is limited.

No one should feel compelled to offer their labor for free. And, frankly, I am more comfortable with a handyman’s work than a neighbor’s on my house. 
 

—signed, me, who has done plenty of neighbors helping neighbors work for free

Thank you for that perspective. My issue I think comes from the fact that he's not a handyman by trade (he was in finance) and he does this on the side to stay busy and I suspect to stay out of his wife's hair. 

Edited October 2, 2022 by Lady Florida.

[Katy]

My reaction would be to dislike him but try my best to remain neutral. We don’t know what’s going on in his life. If the occasion arose and he was both being financially ostentatious and was at a party we were at DH might gently tease him about charging neighbors for the shutters; but that’s a lot of if’s.

[Lady Florida.]

3 minutes ago, ikslo said:

Now, if he still charged his next door neighbor? Or the elderly widow a few doors down? Then yeah, I’m judging him.

That's exactly what he did. I'll edit my OP to say it was our neighborhood facebook page. Only people in our subdivision are on the page.

Edited October 2, 2022 by Lady Florida.

[Lady Florida.]

4 minutes ago, ikslo said:

Or the elderly widow a few doors down?

It was the elderly widow a few doors down and diagonally across from me who told me about it. 

[prairiewindmomma]

Just now, Lady Florida. said:

Thank you for that perspective. My issue I think comes from the fact that he's not a handyman by trade (he was in finance) and he does this on the side to stay busy and I suspect to stay out of his wife's hair. 

If he is doing handyman type work and being paid for it elsewhere (hanging a shelf, etc.), he is in fact a handyman.

His primary income was in finance.

I have plenty of friends who do side jobs—they have the skills, they limit the scope of what they do to stay legal (aren’t licensed carpenters, etc.) but they can legitimately carry the title, iykwim. 
 

My friend is a school teacher who also paints during the summers. Is she not a painter? She does so, is paid for it, even though her primary job is teacher. 

[ikslo]

2 minutes ago, Lady Florida. said:

That's exactly what he did. I'll edit my OP to say it was our neighborhood facebook page. Only people in our subdivision are on the page.

In that case I would feel like he was taking advantage of a hurricane to make money off his neighbors and would find that in poor taste. He would have been better off in my eyes not offering at all.

Then again, the neighbors knew his price and still had him do the work. I would have asked another neighbor for help.

[ikslo]

2 hours ago, prairiewindmomma said:

If he is doing handyman type work and being paid for it elsewhere (hanging a shelf, etc.), he is in fact a handyman.

His primary income was in finance.

I have plenty of friends who do side jobs—they have the skills, they limit the scope of what they do to stay legal (aren’t licensed carpenters, etc.) but they can legitimately carry the title, iykwim. 
 

My friend is a school teacher who also paints during the summers. Is she not a painter? She does so, is paid for it, even though her primary job is teacher. 

I agree with this pov. He is a handyman.  I also think he could have set it aside for the storm and helped this neighbor for free. 

Edited October 2, 2022 by ikslo
Typo

[prairiewindmomma]

2 minutes ago, ikslo said:

 

Then again, the neighbors knew his price and still had him do the work. I would have asked another neighbor for help.

My elderly aunt would not have accepted the work for free because she would have felt an obligation to return the favor. Being able to pay someone allows her to accept someone else (not family) doing something for her she cannot do herself.

[Lecka]

It sounds like he is in fact a handyman.  
 

My Dad could have been described this way for a while, when he retired and was doing handyman work for money.

 

He considered himself to be a handyman working for money.

 

I think it did confuse some people who thought he “wasn’t really a handyman.”

 

They thought he was an “office job” type of guy pretending to be a handyman or something.

 

But he considered himself to be someone who had a background in this that not everybody might know about and he considered himself a handyman and considered it to be a “real job” and not “just a hobby he did on the side.”

 

On some level it was a hobby he did on the side, because he only did it when he felt like it and doing jobs he chose to do, but he did not consider it that way.  He considered it that he was working as a handyman and had the freedom to pick and choose the jobs he took.  

[prairiewindmomma]

Fwiw, I totally would have given a snarky eye roll when I read it. I can see why others find it tacky. We just ran into this issue with elderly aunt after a windstorm and I understand her perspective. Roofers were all busy tarping…she needed the help.

[Lady Florida.]

1 minute ago, prairiewindmomma said:

My elderly aunt would not have accepted the work for free because she would have felt an obligation to return the favor. Being able to pay someone allows her to accept someone else (not family) doing something for her she cannot do herself.

53 years in Florida and I haven't met anyone like this when a storm is forecast to hit. I know there are those who won't accept help under normal circumstances but imo people pull together before a hurricane. 

There was an 84yo couple who hired a licensed, bonded, insured handyman to put theirs up. I totally get that. I just don't get neighbors unwilling to help each other without expecting something in return. 

Also, trust me, this couple isn't hurting for money. They just like to have as much as they can get.

[Lecka]

If in the end this woman didn’t have her shutters put up over this, or there was some rudeness in how things were said, I would have a problem with it.

 

If someone who works as a handyman puts on their neighborhood Facebook page they will put up shutters for $75 — I think that’s okay.

 

If it were my Dad he would have still put up shutters for his near neighbors without charging, and just not accepted money at the end.  But if somebody was offended he would think that was person was snooty/snobby and “wanting him to do it for free.”  But if he refused to accept payment, that would be fine with him.

 

He is a prickly person and I think it would be fine for neighbors to find him prickly.

But he’s not — taking advantage of people or being unneighborly, in my opinion.

 

I also think it’s fine for people to use the neighborhood Facebook page for this purpose, unless it is explicitly not allowed, and then I think the administrators might be happy to disallow advertisements like this if a few people brought it up.  
 

I think there are definitely some neighborhood Facebook pages where the consensus is not to allow posts like this.  

[catz]

Does he do good work?  Could he provide references?  Is he obviously wealthy?

I actually think it's not a great model to just assume volunteerism will save the day in every case.  I don't live in Florida, but honestly that wouldn't bother me.  And I could see using him if I had a neighbor that said he was reliable and good quality. 

Also it's one thing to help someone move their lawn furniture or clean up their yard or loan them flashlights or make lemonade.  Putting up shutters, particularly if it might require a ladder, is not without risk.  I'd personally be uncomfortable letting a random volunteer neighbor on a high ladder against my home.  I mean if you had a single story home and had easy shudders you could do from the ground I totally see how that could be easy for a neighbor to help you get that done quickly.  

I guess it wouldn't bother me.  If the neighborhood generally found it problematic, I suspect he'd get no takers and would silence himself on those types of boards.  $75 seems cheap to me if he's doing a good job and willing to get on a ladder and he has experience with it.

[Corraleno]

People who don't live in hurricane areas may not know that putting up hurricane shutters basically consists of popping the metal panels into preinstalled tracks, it's really not a "handyman job," it's more like popping window screens in and out or putting patio furniture away. My dad lives in a retirement community in FL and he used to put up the shutters for many neighbors who couldn't do it themselves (as well as mowing lawns for elderly widows, etc.). Now that he's in a wheelchair and can't even do his own, other neighbors do his shutters for him. It's just what neighbors do in FL, I can't imagine someone charging $75 to pop in some shutters for an elderly widow! I think that's super tacky and it would definitely change how I feel about the neighbor.

[Lecka]

Well — if you know this couple and already have reason to think they are this way, and now you are just shocked they are this bad — well, that is different.

You already know what they are like and they have just stooped lower.

I think that is a fair opinion to hold.  
 

My husband has had our elderly neighbor try to put money in his hands, and he refuses.  I think this is maybe something we have where I am?  I think it’s a thing to try to pay people and then the person not accept the money.  Not that it’s the only way to do things, but I think it’s common and acceptable.  

[Lecka]

I didn’t realize it was that simple.  I was picturing needing to use a power tool to screw in pieces of plywood.  That is more what I have seen on the news.  
 

That does change my opinion!

 

 

[Faith-manor]

I think the issue is facebook. I mean, if the elderly widow next door asks him for help, I would like to think he would just chip in his time knowing that a hurricane is bearing down the lane. But when something gets put on facebook, usually there are people who read that as a prime opportunity to take advantage of the situation. Social media has the tendency to just magnify ill intentions.

What is did isn't wrong though. Maybe not my cup o tea, but not wrong. I just hope has a few people he helps here and there in a crisis for no money and it just on the down low between him and them.

[catz]

2 minutes ago, Lecka said:

I didn’t realize it was that simple.  I was picturing needing to use a power tool to screw in pieces of plywood.  That is more what I have seen on the news.  
 

That does change my opinion!

 

 

My BIL lives in FL and has some that require a drill to install so that is also what I was imagining.   He tends to be OOT with everything though so it also doesn't surprise me that is atypical.

I still would be nervous about random people up on a ladder against my house.  

 

[Lady Florida.]

4 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

People who don't live in hurricane areas may not know that putting up hurricane shutters basically consists of popping the metal panels into preinstalled tracks, it's really not a "handyman job," it's more like popping window screens in and out or putting patio furniture away. My dad lives in a retirement community in FL and he used to put up the shutters for many neighbors who couldn't do it themselves (as well as mowing lawns for elderly widows, etc.). Now that he's in a wheelchair and can't even do his own, other neighbors do his shutters for him. It's just what neighbors do in FL, I can't imagine someone charging $75 to pop in some shutters for an elderly widow! I think that's super tacky and it would definitely change how I feel about the neighbor.

Thank you! People who live in Florida sometimes forget that those who don't live here don't realize how easy it can be. lol

3 minutes ago, Lecka said:

I was picturing needing to use a power tool to screw in pieces of plywood.  That is more what I have seen on the news.  

Sorry. See above lol.

Actually that is what it requires in some neighborhoods including most of the ones I lived in before, and people STILL pitch in to help each other. If you lived here long enough and are physically in good shape it's actually second nature even to do plywood. In my current neighborhood however, the oldest house was built in 2018. We have predrilled holes and it's quite easy to install the shutters.

[Lady Florida.]

2 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

 

What is did isn't wrong though. Maybe not my cup o tea, but not wrong. 

I don't think it's wrong, just not at all neighborly. And kind of surprising. I've never run into this in all my years in Florida.

[Bambam]

Is $75 a reasonable price? Is that high? Is it really inexpensive? 

I can see advertising, but then if a close neighbor asks for help, doing it for free (or even possibly discounted off what I listed). 

It wasn't like he offered to do the work and then said, "Oh, btw, you owe me $75 - which would be super tacky, IMHO. 

He was open and upfront and clear under what conditions he would do the work. It is fine if others post, hey, good neighbor, I'll come over and do that for free. 

I don't know his financial situation (even if he was well paid, that doesn't mean he has money to spare), so he may need the money. I am assuming he wasn't charging an outrageously high fee to install the shutters. He may be concerned that if he starts working for free, folks will expect that. 

We did live in the gulf coast and had to prepare for hurricanes. We did not have shutters, folks generally cut plywood to fit their windows and used hurricane clips to secure them. This is a LOT of work. If you have big windows, that plywood gets heavy and it's hard to manage on your own with just one ladder. My dh still has a deep scar from where he had to drop one of the pieces of plywood. Those shutters sound like magic!  Folks did try to help each other, but usually everyone was busy, busy trying to secure their own property and make sure all outside things were brought in. Help  generally consisted of advice - that Lowe's still had OSB, but I couldn't find any elsewhere, or this ATM still has cash. 

[Corraleno]

These are typical hurricane shutters; they are lightweight aluminum and it takes at most 5 minutes per window, if that, to pop them up. The shutters on my parents' modest 2 BR 2 BA house take maybe 45 minutes to put up. Unless the elderly widow lives in a 2-story mansion with a ton of windows and the guy has to bring a ladder and power tools, he's basically charging like $75/hr to do something that requires no skill and could be done by any able-bodied person over the age of 12.

Edited October 2, 2022 by Corraleno

[footballmom]

I’m also in the camp of help out from the goodness of your heart, but I appreciate he was upfront that he would help only if paid.  I do think it is tacky and opportunistic to charge those who can’t do it for themselves.  I do think there’s truth in “people don’t value what they don’t pay for”. I don’t think this holds true in emergency / disaster situations, again, I would be so happy to help anyone for free.  But, maybe he got burned before doing something for free and has put the fee in place as a boundary to protect himself in some way. 

[catz]

I was thinking about this and we live in a city with mixed housing.  Like we are in an upper middle class urban home (which is a 2000 sq ft 3 bedroom 100+ year old house lol).  But I live in walking range of student apartments, to cheap duplexes, lower income housing to million dollar+ homes.  So sometimes we will get someone advertising as a handman on private neighborhood boards.  I haven't used one, I would certainly google about and check references before doing so.  But I'd also generally assume, that was someone making a good faith effort trying to earn honest money.  Like we've had people advertise for tree clean up/trimming after storms.  But my husband will regularly help our older neighbors with various things when we see them out in the yard.  One of our older neighbors goes south for a few months in the winter and we plow their driveway.  It's literally like a 5 minute job when we are doing our own.  Actually, snow plowing is actually a big one.  Sure, neighbors help each other.  But lots of people advertise for that too.

Also, I'm pretty sure we have 30+ windows on our home so that is also my frame of reference.  Even at 5 minutes a window, that is 2.5+ hours.  Actually counting, we have over 30 windows on our main floor and they're varying sizes and configurations.  We also have 2nd floor and attic windows.  So shuttering them would be a huge job despite not living in anything remotely like a mansion.

My BIL/SIL in Florida lives in a gated community where the home values are pretty homogenous.  And the home ages and layouts/style are pretty homogenous.  So I could see how it might hit differently in that type of set up.  

I will also say if someone does handyman (or really contractor of any type) does work in the neighborhood and does a BAD job, well, that news will be ALL over the place in no time flat.  So if this guy charges $75 and is really taking advantage of people, well news spreads fast.  I do think when people have  the money where $75 isn't a lot, they can call one person and get it done, that may be worthwhile to them.

Edited October 2, 2022 by catz

[Tanaqui]

I don't think it's wrong to charge fair value for time, per se - but it sounds like he's just gouging people, and that's not all right at all.

[Mrs Tiggywinkle Again]

I don’t know the laws of your state or if he has insurance, but my husband(who has a small handyman business) says that his business/liability insurance won’t cover handyman work he does for free.  Though he can, and has, donated time to a couple very small country churches for handyman work they really needed done, but they were non profits and he got a receipt for the amount of labor cost it would have been. So insurance would cover that due to the appropriate paperwork. 

Obviously I have no idea if that’s in play here.

[AbcdeDooDah]

I think because the shutters were not necessary and just a want, I don’t fault him. I bet in a situation where everyone needed to go to extreme protection he would be out there helping. He is taking on a liability by working on people’s house.

[Clemsondana]

On one hand, it's squicky, since in a crisis most people just work together to keep everybody safe.  On the other hand, I could imagine a situation - say, husband is out of town and for whatever reason I couldn't do it - where he would be happy to pay somebody to do it rather than having to worry about it.  I've also known my husband to pay people to do work that he could do on his own - when he's on a deadline at work, that's where his time goes.  I could see somebody who had to work through a hurricane paying somebody to fix their house to keep their family safe and for them to have peace of mind that it was done, but somebody wanting money for that sort of thing isn't something that I would expect. 

[Annie G]

He was upfront about his charge, so I’d be fine with him posting it.  On our neighborhood Facebook page, if someone posted that, someone else would have immediately posted ‘I’ll do it for free’.  I like neighbors helping neighbors, but I don’t begrudge someone trying to earn some money.
Maybe his fee also covers removal. I hope so. 
My nephew installed my sister’s last week- 10 windows and two doors. It took him over 90 minutes to retrieve them from her shed and install them, and a little less than that today to take them off and store them back in the shed.  I wasn’t there so I can’t comment on how efficiently he worked. 
 

 

 

[Janeway]

I think it was fine for him to charge. if this is some thing he’s been doing, it probably is a part of his income. You wouldn’t go to a neighbor who is a lawyer or who is an accountant and ask for some help with legal problems or taxes and just say other people would’ve helped you for free therefore they should do it too. Nobody had to take him up on it.

Edited October 3, 2022 by Janeway

[Farrar]

I think it's okay to have two thoughts about this at the same time. That it's tacky gouging that isn't very neighborly... and that no one needs to get up in arms at him or anything. Like, I don't think he committed a great moral wrong. He said his price and no one was in dire straits or anything. But also, not cool. Like, if I had to post a response, I'd have been like, "So and so and so and so are happy to help with this and it really doesn't take that much skill." And not, "Dude, this is wrong! Help your neighbors before a storm!"

[KungFuPanda]

If he stays busy with handyman work maybe he wanted to get out ahead of everybody calling him all at once for free services. Or all those people wanting free removal when the storm passed. Helping a neighbor is no big deal. Helping several neighbors in a short span of time can be a bit much for a retired man. When you’re the person everyone calls, it’s overwhelming when they all call at once without even thinking of who else might help. Besides, you can’t really know anyone else’s financial story. If his post encouraged everyone else to step up its win-win. 
 

I wouldn’t put emergency prep in the same category as post-disaster price gouging. It’s not like he’s charging someone to rescue them. This sounds like normal preparations for the area. The equivalent here would be volunteering to shovel your elderly neighbor’s driveway with your snow blower, but not shoveling EVERY driveway in the neighborhood for free. 

[EKS]

I honestly don't see the problem with it.