Do you know how to be a guest?

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, Arcadia said:

When we have to leave early from an event like this, we would tell the host that we need to leave soon and ask if there is anything we can help with before we go. Usually the hosts would ask us to help by packing leftovers from the buffet table for ourselves so that they don’t have that much leftovers to bring home. Sometimes the hosts would ask us to help bring some of the tied trash bags to the designated trash area on our way out of the venue. 

Yes. I would assume that a sister would tell me the truth about what she needed/wanted help with.   I would also ask /offer my help before a family event like a wedding. 
 

One of the nicest gifts for my wedding was a friend of dh’s who offered to be my “wedding coordinator “ the day of the wedding. I could just refer everyone with questions to her and she sorted it out. 

[BlsdMama]

21 hours ago, regentrude said:

That's different. The only people who stay that long are family, and they have the run of the kitchen, can serve themselves from the fridge, are free to put their dishes into the dishwasher, we might cook together. But they are not "guests". When my adult kids and their partners are staying with us, this is their home.

Thanks for clarifying.  We've had friends (different families, female friends) stay with us 1-2 weeks on several occasions. I *love* having them here but it would feel odd if they didn't help out with the occasional dishes or whatnot.  I totally agree with you if we're having company for the evening.  

[KathyBC]

5 hours ago, regentrude said:

I hand the host any contributions I brought (potluck dish or wine or gift - or the party plates) and ask if there's anything I can do to help. If there is, I am happy to cut veggies, arrange cheese trays, set out chairs, whatever the task is. If there isn't, I'll go hang out with the other guests, talk, move between groups. Introduce myself to strangers, introduce strangers to friends. I eat the food, praise the food, have one alcoholic drink (my limit), cheerfully participate in party activities - and I usually leave before the last people do because I am not a night person. For one friend's parties, I am the designated lighter of the bonfire.

ETA: I find all my friends interact in a similar way. 

Oh in a friend setting? Naturally.

[BlsdMama]

22 hours ago, Catwoman said:

If anyone was staying at my house for a week or two, I would have moved to a hotel on Night #1. 😉 

I'm an extrovert who has left friends I love on the West coast.  I love it when they come. ❤️ I had a dear friend here for a week at the end of June.  I love that they come and that they get to know my kids all over again now that they're big.  My adult kids all made trips here to visit with her when she was here.  The first time their whole family came - her DH and the five kiddos.  That was a blast! I suspect it is the introvert/extrovert thing. 😉

[Catwoman]

5 minutes ago, BlsdMama said:

I'm an extrovert who has left friends I love on the West coast.  I love it when they come. ❤️ I had a dear friend here for a week at the end of June.  I love that they come and that they get to know my kids all over again now that they're big.  My adult kids all made trips here to visit with her when she was here.  The first time their whole family came - her DH and the five kiddos.  That was a blast! I suspect it is the introvert/extrovert thing. 😉

Actually, I'm quite extroverted. I don't think that has anything to do with not wanting people to spend the night (or multiple nights) in my home. 🙂 I just think it's a colossal nuisance to have overnight guests, and I don't want to be bothered with it. 

[regentrude]

55 minutes ago, BlsdMama said:

Thanks for clarifying.  We've had friends (different families, female friends) stay with us 1-2 weeks on several occasions. I *love* having them here but it would feel odd if they didn't help out with the occasional dishes or whatnot.  I totally agree with you if we're having company for the evening.  

I LOVE hosting overnight guests. I would love to have friends visit for extended times. When I lived in Santa Barbara, CA, several of my German friends came and camped in their sleeping bags on the floor of my shared apartment. Now I have a house and beds - but alas, a rural town in the Midwest, two hours from the nearest city, that is a PITA to reach is not much of a draw.

Our non-family overnight guests who stay for more than one night are all either international visiting scholars who come to work with DH or new foreign grad students/postdocs/exchange students who stay with us while they are looking for housing. They are not expected to provide household help; if they offer, I kindly decline.

Edited July 13, 2022 by regentrude

[Jean in Newcastle]

Regarding longer term guests- I show them what I have in my pantry for things like breakfast, lunch and snacks. They are welcome to forage for themselves and I guess, to clean up after themselves. Though I don’t mind washing their dishes with ours. But longer term guests have used my house kind of like a b&b. They often get breakfast and then head out for the day. If they want to join us for dinner they give me a few hours notice so that I plan enough food. 
 

We might plan a day or two of mutual sightseeing. But otherwise I don’t “entertain “ them. 
 

They are welcome to use my washing machine but give me notice so that I don’t have the machines tied up. It doesn’t have to be much notice but I guess that I do prefer that they ask. 
 

I absolutely do not  expect them to do vacuuming or actual cleaning of my house and would find that off putting. 

[katilac]

On 7/11/2022 at 10:33 PM, regentrude said:

Yep. Every year at my summer party (30-50 people), somebody starts rinsing off dishes in the sink. So instead of the pile of dishes in the (labeled for this purpose!) pan I set to the side,  

This is what sink covers are for.

That's probably enough discouragement, most people are going to at least ask if the sink is purposefully covered, but you could add a laminate sign: "Please stack dirty dishes in the red tub without rinsing. Thank you." 

[regentrude]

3 hours ago, katilac said:

This is what sink covers are for.

That's probably enough discouragement, most people are going to at least ask if the sink is purposefully covered, but you could add a laminate sign: "Please stack dirty dishes in the red tub without rinsing. Thank you." 

I didn't know there was such a thing. Thanks.

[Pam in CT]

re sink covers

7 hours ago, katilac said:

This is what sink covers are for.

That's probably enough discouragement, most people are going to at least ask if the sink is purposefully covered, but you could add a laminate sign: "Please stack dirty dishes in the red tub without rinsing. Thank you." 

 

3 hours ago, regentrude said:

I didn't know there was such a thing. Thanks.

Me either.

 

This may well ROCK MY WORLD.  It's never occurred to me.  I have absolutely no use for it on regular days, but for big-gathering days I can see multiple benefits.  Thank you, love this board.

[marbel]

7 hours ago, katilac said:

This is what sink covers are for.

That's probably enough discouragement, most people are going to at least ask if the sink is purposefully covered, but you could add a laminate sign: "Please stack dirty dishes in the red tub without rinsing. Thank you." 

The sink cover is a great idea, and a revelation to me too, so don't think I'm disagreeing with you but I had to laugh at the idea of a sign.  

After every large gathering we have had to pluck stainless steel utensils out of the recycling even though both recycling and utensil containers are clearly marked.  Well, we also have to deal with trash in the recycling too, but that is not as surprising as actual silverware going into a recycling bin. 

[KSera]

19 minutes ago, marbel said:

After every large gathering we have had to pluck stainless steel utensils out of the recycling even though both recycling and utensil containers are clearly marked.  Well, we also have to deal with trash in the recycling too, but that is not as surprising as actual silverware going into a recycling bin. 

Yes! Why?? My dh has taken to hiding the recycling bin before gatherings (in the olden days, when we used to have them), because inevitably, people filled it with garbage, and sorting through that is just gross.

[marbel]

2 hours ago, KSera said:

Yes! Why?? My dh has taken to hiding the recycling bin before gatherings (in the olden days, when we used to have them), because inevitably, people filled it with garbage, and sorting through that is just gross.

It blows my mind. I always try to look at things from the perspective of a guest to see if things are clear... and I don't know what could be clearer than separate containers with white labels and block-printed large letters "trash," "recycling (cans/bottles)" and "utensils." But yeah. 
 

I can only imagine how difficult it is for restaurants and such to deal with the problem. 

[KSera]

3 minutes ago, marbel said:

 

I can only imagine how difficult it is for restaurants and such to deal with the problem

Agree. With as often as I see food waste thrown in recycling bins at restaurants, I’ve come to assume that it likely all just goes in the trash on the backend 😢. 

[Ellie]

On 7/11/2022 at 7:52 PM, KathyBC said:

I am happiest at an event when I have a job to do. If I don't have one, I can usually find one.
I used to be a kid and happy to let people do stuff for me, but now I always "see" what needs doing - even if at some point probably others will do it - and am happiest jumping in. But my now-adult kids are poking me that when I am just a guest I should sit back and not do this.

Context: my sister lives in another province and had a smallish wedding for her daughter this weekend. I was happy to clear empty cups and cans, sweep the floor, reload ice, etc. My kids were picking on me. In hindsight, I don't want my actions to have made my sister feel like she didn't have things covered. She is very capable and competent. That is just my go-to behavior. But it occurs to me perhaps this is maybe more narcissistic than helpful, a 'savior' complex.

Thoughts? Can you just relax and be?

One other thought: could be mild ADD, a way to keep myself entertained productively.

Your context is different from most situations where *I* might be a guest. I see no problem, in that specific situation, in helping tidy up from a wedding, especially in your own sister's home. It sounds as if you and your sister are relatively close, and you don't say that she was actually offended by your help. I would have done the same thing in your place. 🙂

When I am an actual *guest,* no, I don't feel the need to help out other than cleaning up after myself, because *guest.* When I have guests, I don't even want them to help clean the table after a meal (although some of them do, because they don't understand *guest*). However, when I have a Big Event at my house, such as Mr. Ellie's 72nd birthday party, I don't mind if attendees help pick up. Also, when I have house guests, I don't expect them to help with anything, either, because *guest.*

[Arcadia]

8 minutes ago, marbel said:

It blows my mind. I always try to look at things from the perspective of a guest to see if things are clear... and I don't know what could be clearer than separate containers with white labels and block-printed large letters "trash," "recycling (cans/bottles)" and "utensils." But yeah. 

I find images clearer than words for labels for the different trash bins e.g. 

(Source https://www.recyclingrulesac.org/wp-content/uploads/RRAC-stickers-sizes-1.jpg)

Also, maybe put a dish pan out for utensils and put a utensil in there as sample. People tend to react to visuals so if they see a container with used cans and bottles, that’s where they would tend to dump theirs. As kids, my relatives and I would look at what is already in the various trash cans and sort our trash accordingly. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

19 minutes ago, KSera said:

Agree. With as often as I see food waste thrown in recycling bins at restaurants, I’ve come to assume that it likely all just goes in the trash on the backend 😢. 

continuing down this rabbit trail, I am often so confused when I see those bins in a restaurant.  Does a plastic recyclable container that has food residue count as "recycling"?  (At home all recyclables have to be washed before putting in the recycling bin).  What actually counts as compost?  (I can scrape food in there but I don't always have a utensil handy to do scraping.)  I am not unwilling.  Or even dumb.  It's just that often the things in a restaurant aren't in clear categories. 

[Clarita]

11 hours ago, katilac said:

This is what sink covers are for.

That's probably enough discouragement, most people are going to at least ask if the sink is purposefully covered, but you could add a laminate sign: "Please stack dirty dishes in the red tub without rinsing. Thank you." 

But I also want to use the sink. And I had a guest fight me once when I told them I don't want dirty dishes in the sink. At the end of that fight they still put all their dishes in the sink, un-scraped but rinsed, because "that's what we do." 

They were the friends I was secretly glad decided to lose touch with us over the pandemic. 

[Kassia]

22 minutes ago, Clarita said:

But I also want to use the sink. And I had a guest fight me once when I told them I don't want dirty dishes in the sink. At the end of that fight they still put all their dishes in the sink, un-scraped but rinsed, because "that's what we do." 

They were the friends I was secretly glad decided to lose touch with us over the pandemic. 

Good grief, that is obnoxious!  I think I'd be speechless if someone did that in my home! 

[marbel]

39 minutes ago, Kassia said:

Good grief, that is obnoxious!  I think I'd be speechless if someone did that in my home! 

I had some misbehaving guests like that. 

Long ago I had a friend who liked to help too much. Once when she and her kids (along with some other friends) were over, and we had some food, and I was putting the dishes by the sink to be dealt with later. She wanted to wash them but there happened to be a birdfeeder in the sink. My husband had brought it in to be cleaned, and I was going to do that and then disinfect the sink before doing any dishes. So I didn't want the dishes in the sink. (The dishwasher was running at the time or I'd have put the dishes in there.)  I asked her to just leave them by the sink so we could get back with the other guests. I left the room for a couple minutes to deal with kids, and when I came back, she was washing the dishes in the sink, along with the bird feeder.  She had put everything in a dish drainer and was going to dry it when I came in. I was so mad. I told her to please get out of the kitchen and let me deal with my own dishes in my own way. 

After they all left, I disinfected and rewashed everything. I suppose someone here might say it was all fine to wash a bird feeder along with dishes, but the notion of it grossed me out. But it doesn't matter anyway - I was blown away that my friend had determined that she should override my wishes about my housekeeping in my own house. 

Edited July 14, 2022 by marbel

[Jean in Newcastle]

1 hour ago, Clarita said:

But I also want to use the sink. And I had a guest fight me once when I told them I don't want dirty dishes in the sink. At the end of that fight they still put all their dishes in the sink, un-scraped but rinsed, because "that's what we do." 

They were the friends I was secretly glad decided to lose touch with us over the pandemic. 

 

24 minutes ago, marbel said:

I had some misbehaving guests like that. 

Long ago I had a friend who liked to help too much. Once when she and her kids (along with some other friends) were over, and we had some food, and I was putting the dishes by the sink to be dealt with later. She wanted to wash them but there happened to be a birdfeeder in the sink. My husband had brought it in to be cleaned, and I was going to do that and then disinfect the sink before doing any dishes. So I didn't want the dishes in the sink. (The dishwasher was running at the time or I'd have put the dishes in there.)  I asked her to just leave them by the sink so we could get back with the other guests. I left the room for a couple minutes to deal with kids, and when I came back, she was washing the dishes in the sink, along with the bird feeder.  She had put everything in a dish drainer and was going to dry it when I came in. I was so mad. I told her to please get out of the kitchen and let me deal with my own dishes in my own way. 

After they all left, I disinfected and rewashed everything. I suppose someone here might say it was all fine to wash a bird feeder along with dishes, but the notion of it grossed me out. But it doesn't matter anyway - I was blown away that my friend had determined that she should override my wishes about my housekeeping in my own house. 

Yes, I have had guests and family members who “think they know best “. I believe that true etiquette puts other people’s needs first. Someone (absolutely not talking about the OP here) putting their own need to be busy or to do things their way over the wishes of their host is arrogant. I have spent enough time in other cultures to see that the requirements for being a good guest is fluid. What is important is good communication and the willingness to just be a friend. 

[regentrude]

8 hours ago, marbel said:

After every large gathering we have had to pluck stainless steel utensils out of the recycling even though both recycling and utensil containers are clearly marked.  Well, we also have to deal with trash in the recycling too, but that is not as surprising as actual silverware going into a recycling bin. 

I had folks throw my reusable plates in the trash. Sigh 

[Scarlett]

3 hours ago, marbel said:

I had some misbehaving guests like that. 

Long ago I had a friend who liked to help too much. Once when she and her kids (along with some other friends) were over, and we had some food, and I was putting the dishes by the sink to be dealt with later. She wanted to wash them but there happened to be a birdfeeder in the sink. My husband had brought it in to be cleaned, and I was going to do that and then disinfect the sink before doing any dishes. So I didn't want the dishes in the sink. (The dishwasher was running at the time or I'd have put the dishes in there.)  I asked her to just leave them by the sink so we could get back with the other guests. I left the room for a couple minutes to deal with kids, and when I came back, she was washing the dishes in the sink, along with the bird feeder.  She had put everything in a dish drainer and was going to dry it when I came in. I was so mad. I told her to please get out of the kitchen and let me deal with my own dishes in my own way. 

After they all left, I disinfected and rewashed everything. I suppose someone here might say it was all fine to wash a bird feeder along with dishes, but the notion of it grossed me out. But it doesn't matter anyway - I was blown away that my friend had determined that she should override my wishes about my housekeeping in my own house. 

I am with you, ugh I wouldn’t even want the bird feeder near the dishes.  Double ugh!

[katilac]

5 hours ago, Arcadia said:

I find images clearer than words for labels for the different trash bins e.g. 

I am over here being extremely amused that they have 3 different examples of paper towels. 

5 hours ago, Clarita said:

But I also want to use the sink.  

You can get an extremely lightweight one if you want to be able to move it easily. 

4 hours ago, marbel said:

I suppose someone here might say it was all fine to wash a bird feeder along with dishes, but the notion of it grossed me out.  

I'm pretty relaxed about germs, but this is a no-go. Bird poop inevitably goes along with bird feeders (even if not visible), and bacteria and parasites go along with bird poop. Gross. 

[Arcadia]

17 minutes ago, katilac said:

I am over here being extremely amused that they have 3 different examples of paper towels. 

These free stickers are for businesses in the county, so the 3 different examples of paper towels are realistic. 

[marbel]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

I am with you, ugh I wouldn’t even want the bird feeder near the dishes.  Double ugh!

Yeah, I should add that I wasn't thrilled about the bird feeder being plunked in the kitchen sink at all, but we had no other sink to clean it in.  

[Scarlett]

8 minutes ago, marbel said:

Yeah, I should add that I wasn't thrilled about the bird feeder being plunked in the kitchen sink at all, but we had no other sink to clean it in.  

Oh I hear you….I have had all sorts of things washed in my kitchen sink. That is what bleach is for.

[fairfarmhand]

56 minutes ago, marbel said:

Yeah, I should add that I wasn't thrilled about the bird feeder being plunked in the kitchen sink at all, but we had no other sink to clean it in.  

Around here we’d clean it at the hose with a basin but I do have access to six different hose pipes so I’m biased. I guess if it was mid winter I’d make do with the sink. I’m far from a germaphobe but washing a bird feeder with dishes is 🤢🤢🤢

[Ellie]

On 7/12/2022 at 6:58 AM, marbel said:

LOL I was once criticized by a guest for having cloth napkins!  They said I was being too fancy.

Now, *that* was rude.

[popmom]

On 7/11/2022 at 8:00 PM, Beth S said:

For me, I just focus on washing dirty dishes.
It doesn't require any direction, & truly relieves the hostess.

 

Not always. lol 

Some people’s standards of clean china and crystal are vastly different from mine. I don’t stress if someone wants to wash dishes, but I’d really rather they just hang out with the family and let the dishes sit. I usually end up re-washing the dishes because I’m particular about it. (Don’t wash my china in dirty, greasy water that just washed 6 casserole dishes thx.) Sometimes the host is really okay with letting the dishes sit overnight. 😉

[popmom]

On 7/12/2022 at 3:18 PM, Brittany1116 said:

I'm sure your sister knows you well enough to not be offended. 

In the South, you'd be in more trouble if you didn't try to help.

Oh, no no no no no. I’m in the south. (((Southern born and southern bred lol) Do not wash my dishes. And I promise I’m not the only southerner who feels this way. I defer to Emily Post who would say…always ask first. And if your offer to help is declined, just enjoy yourself. 🙂

eta: I grew up going to slumber parties at my friends’ homes, and this was a thing. But the idea was that family cleans up with family. If I spent the night with a friend during my youth, I was “family” for the day. That’s a good thing. That’s also totally different from being an adult guest in someone’s home.

Edited July 18, 2022 by popmom

[Ellie]

On 7/14/2022 at 12:40 PM, Arcadia said:

I find images clearer than words for labels for the different trash bins e.g. 

(Source https://www.recyclingrulesac.org/wp-content/uploads/RRAC-stickers-sizes-1.jpg)

Also, maybe put a dish pan out for utensils and put a utensil in there as sample. People tend to react to visuals so if they see a container with used cans and bottles, that’s where they would tend to dump theirs. As kids, my relatives and I would look at what is already in the various trash cans and sort our trash accordingly. 

See, those categories confuse me. And I still don't know the difference between "trash" and "garbage." Happily, where I live we aren't required to categorize our trash, other than to break down boxes.

[Ellie]

The first time I invite you to dinner, you are a guest. Do NOT clear the table or try to help in any way. Guest. If you make it to three invitations, you're now family, and I will let you put your dishes in the dishwasher (you can get your own drinks out of the fridge and stuff like that, too, because family). But still, if it's *dinner,* it will just be easier if you stay in the dining room and let me take care of things.

If you are staying with me for an extended period of time, you're family, and heck yeah, I expect you to clean up after yourself, but I'm not going to give you actual chores. Probably. One of our long-term houseguests wanted to do stuff around the house, and we let him.  We weren't charging him to stay with us, and it made him feel better to help.

As fat as the purpose of etiquette being to make others comfortable, I don't agree with that, but even if I did, that would go both ways: the guest making the hostess feel comfortable as well as the hostess making the guest feel comfortable, yes? So if the hostess does not want the guest to put his dirty dishes in the sink, then the guest should just stay seated at the table.

[HomeAgain]

We had an interesting experience with guests this week, and it definitely formed our thoughts more on how to be good hosts and guests.  Dh managed to rein himself in when having a plate rudely shoved at him to "take care of that, too" as the other 6 of us worked as a team to clear and move the party to another room.  I learned I am a bit of a control freak when it comes to our kitchen.  I consider it a dangerous work area for people floating around it. If I'm in there, I really don't want guests beyond the island.  I think I'll continue to set up so that there is absolutely no need for guests to be there.

[scholastica]

2 hours ago, HomeAgain said:

We had an interesting experience with guests this week, and it definitely formed our thoughts more on how to be good hosts and guests.  Dh managed to rein himself in when having a plate rudely shoved at him to "take care of that, too" as the other 6 of us worked as a team to clear and move the party to another room.  I learned I am a bit of a control freak when it comes to our kitchen.  I consider it a dangerous work area for people floating around it. If I'm in there, I really don't want guests beyond the island.  I think I'll continue to set up so that there is absolutely no need for guests to be there.

A guest said that to your dh? Unless they were family, I don’t believe they would be repeat guests in my home.

[HomeAgain]

Just now, scholastica said:

A guest said that to your dh? Unless they were family, I don’t believe they would be repeat guests in my home.

Yeah...they are family, but we're not close to them.  Dh was steaming. It wasn't the only situation that came up.  It's been nearly a decade since their last visit and there are many, many eyebrow raising moments that made it be so long, but yes, they are family.

FWIW, dh had remarked that ds12 was happy to give up his room to them, and the response was "if he hadn't we just wouldn't have bothered to come."  Which tells you quite a bit about why there's been such a long gap.  They were offended that we literally did not have the ability to host when oldest ds graduated because I was knee deep in the middle of selling the home and in a hotel myself so we could leave the day after the ceremony.  I didn't have a house to let them stay in or a car big enough to fit all of us.  That, apparently, was an unforgivable faux pas. Especially because my own sister came out and slept on our floor for 3 days with us to help me with the cleaning and last minute things that have to happen in a move.  They weren't going to help, I didn't have the bandwidth to entertain, and I was drowning in trying to do it all myself because dh wasn't even there, either.

*sigh*  I am glad to be back to my introverted little self and enjoying the absolute quiet and peace our home is providing at the moment.

[scholastica]

6 minutes ago, HomeAgain said:

Yeah...they are family, but we're not close to them.  Dh was steaming. It wasn't the only situation that came up.  It's been nearly a decade since their last visit and there are many, many eyebrow raising moments that made it be so long, but yes, they are family.

FWIW, dh had remarked that ds12 was happy to give up his room to them, and the response was "if he hadn't we just wouldn't have bothered to come."  Which tells you quite a bit about why there's been such a long gap.  They were offended that we literally did not have the ability to host when oldest ds graduated because I was knee deep in the middle of selling the home and in a hotel myself so we could leave the day after the ceremony.  I didn't have a house to let them stay in or a car big enough to fit all of us.  That, apparently, was an unforgivable faux pas. Especially because my own sister came out and slept on our floor for 3 days with us to help me with the cleaning and last minute things that have to happen in a move.  They weren't going to help, I didn't have the bandwidth to entertain, and I was drowning in trying to do it all myself because dh wasn't even there, either.

*sigh*  I am glad to be back to my introverted little self and enjoying the absolute quiet and peace our home is providing at the moment.

Wow. That’s a lot to unpack. I’m so sorry.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I was just at my great niece’s wedding and had lots of opportunities to see examples of good guests and hosts.
 

Another relative coordinated the wedding and even though she was very busy, people all asked her and went with her wishes on how and where we helped. She knew the venue, the caterers etc and knew better than we did the arrangements and how to keep things on track. She had also obviously asked friends and family ahead of time to do certain small jobs. 

Then the day after, the bride’s mom asked out of town guests to join them at their spacious b&b. She gave specific instructions on what to bring to our backyard picnic. But things were also relaxed as friends and family all chipped in together. But still, people didn’t invade private spaces or take over the host’s role. I saw one person make one incorrect assumption (they thought that a throw was actually a rug but apologized and fixed their mistake as soon as they realized it.) No one was offended because both host and guest were gracious and flexible.