Deleted

[Ann.without.an.e]

2 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

Yes! Not every situation requires that everyone examine their feelings and analyze every last word and emotion. Honestly, these texts between Ann and her DD and SIL are insane to me. The length and the detail and the explanations are such overkill for a tiny misunderstanding like this. My head would be ready to explode if people sent me texts like that.

Also, sometimes it’s OK to say things that aren’t “productive,” because honesty can matter more than peacekeeping. 

I feel the same way. I'm exhausted and tired of overthinking my every dang word.

[Ann.without.an.e]

ok I will think on this some more

[TechWife]

5 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

ok I will think on this some more

Hmm, my mother would have called that "naval gazing." You don't have to think about how to manage this anymore. You have more than fulfilled your responsibility. Step out of it and move on with your life. Put some music on, have a bowl of ice cream, take walk, write a grocery list, just do and think about something else.

Edited June 20, 2022 by TechWife

[momto3innc]

I would NOT send that long text. It feels like pacifying them while throwing your DH under the bus (agreeing with cat woman here).  If they want to solve the issue, they can reach out to your DH themselves or he can reach out to them. I’d be inclined to disengage, at least for awhile, and let them think things over for themselves. Basically I would be trying to disentangle myself from all the drama they’re hoisting upon your house. I mean, I wouldn’t be unkind in any way. And if they texted or call or came by, I would be friendly and kind. But it feels like you just keep apologizing again and again first for yourself and now for your husband while they claim no responsibility whatsoever.

 

Adding an edit: I think the issue I see is as you continually apologize and explain, it creates the impression that you and your husband are the sole offenders here. Which is just not the case. It lets them totally off the hook. 

Edited June 20, 2022 by momto3innc

[Faith-manor]

1 minute ago, TechWife said:

Hmm, my mother would have called that "naval gazing." You don't have to think about how to manage this anymore. You have more than fulfilled your responsibility. Step out of it and move on with your life. Put some music on, have a bowl of ice cream, take walk, write a grocery list, just do and think about something else.

This this this this this! Seriously Ann, you need Debussey, an Irish coffee, and a fine piece of chocolate cheesecake.

[Ann.without.an.e]

I can't thank y'all enough for your help. I think it may be healthiest for me to bow out of it all, conversation with them and with this thread. Not that anyone has done anything wrong but I'm just so tired of thinking about it all. I'm going outside to work and put in AirPods and ignore the whole wide world for a bit and then I will go to bed early since I slept like 1 hour last night. Y'all have been a great blessing and balance for me and voice of reason. I am truly grateful for you all ❤️❤️❤️ 

[Catwoman]

5 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

I feel the same way. I'm exhausted and tired of overthinking my every dang word.

Then don’t do it. 

It seems like you can’t stand it that your DD is upset about something, but the problem here is, she has it coming to her. She SHOULD be upset, and you trying to continually over-explain and make excuses for everyone, isn’t helping her. It’s making her feel like the center of the universe where everything revolves around her and her own happiness — and that will just encourage her to act even more and more entitled.

If you say anything to her, you should probably just tell her that you’re done explaining yourself and you’re sorry you ever got sucked into the drama over something so minor. If it was me, I would also tell her to get on the phone or stop by the house and apologize to her father for ruining his Father’s Day with this nonsense, but I’m very straightforward and my family is the same way. 

[Catwoman]

7 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

This this this this this! Seriously Ann, you need Debussey, an Irish coffee, and a fine piece of chocolate cheesecake.

I could use some, too.

PARTY AT FAITH’S HOUSE!!!! 🎉

[freesia]

Just now, Catwoman said:

I could use some, too.

PARTY AT FAITH’S HOUSE!!!! 🎉

I was thinking the same thing!!!

[fairfarmhand]

"DSIL, The more I think about it, the more I realize that I need to step out of texting about this. If dd wants to speak to her father, she probably should call him or go to him in person. Now things are between the two of them, and since they're both adults, that's where I'm going to leave them. Love you both."

OP, since your dd is now married and out of the house, you can relax about this. She will soon learn that she has to be a grownup and people will not dance around her feelings. And you don't have to have a front row seat to all of it. Relax. It's on her. The next few years will probably be hard for her, but should be really nice for you and your family members who live in your home. 

[Faith-manor]

Just now, Catwoman said:

I could use some, too.

PARTY AT FAITH’S HOUSE!!!! 🎉

LOL, I would love to have you all. But the temp at the Bama house is not lovely so you'd be stuck inside with my currently rather rambunctious grandsons until a nice breeze picked up and then you could all party on the deck!

I mean, I'd happily bring out the Irish coffee and Long Island Iced Teas, maybe some Mimosas and Margueritas for y'all, but I gotta stay sharp myself. These boys are too darn smart for their own good! It's a bit like riding herd on veliciraptors. Small but deadly! 😁😁😁😉

[KSera]

1 hour ago, freesia said:

What dh helped me see by being empathetic, but having boundaries with himself and the kids, was that as much as I needed to be understood, I also needed to understand and own how my anxiety effected other people. There is no indication that the dd is apologizing for her part in this. Hopefully, you do see how what you call your “drama” impacts those around you and apologize for it as much as you expect others to apologize when you are triggered unintentionally. 

This. Anxiety isn’t a get out of jail free card where any and all bad behavior can be excused as being caused by anxiety. If someone lashes out due to anxiety, they need to apologize to anyone they hurt when they come back down from the anxiety and it’s not the fault of someone else who did a normal thing that that normal thing caused the anxious person to lash out. The other person can commiserate and empathize with the anxious person that it caused that reaction, but it’s not the fault of the person who triggered it. It just is.
 

Most of the people I know with serious anxiety cope with it in as healthy a way as they are able and recognize that it’s their issue and not everyone else’s fault. I have one though who does not take any responsibility for anything and everything is someone else’s fault nor do they want to do anything to get better. There is very definitely a victim mentality at play. I read an interesting article on that recently, that victim mentality is currently a big issue among the younger social media generation, and I have seen it a lot. I have one who is fully in that mode and another who has shared how seeing that mentality all around them online is what prevented them from taking that path. They didn’t want to be that person. No one thrives when they operate from the base of being the victim. 

[Melissa Louise]

4 hours ago, happi duck said:

I don't call anything related to my medical condition "drama".

I can apologize for inconvenience but not for my existence.

I kind of disagree with this, just for myself.  

Our anxious behaviours have the potential for a major impact on those around us. 

Apologizing for a behaviour (acknowledging anxiety got the better of us this time, in a way that hurt or has the potential to hurt the other) is not, to my mind, the same thing as apologizing for my existence. 

I'll give you an example.

Someone in my family has a history of suicidality. I called them and they did not answer.

As an anxious person, I would normally draw on my strategies of fact checking, reality testing etc. Normally, I remind myself of all the likely, benign reasons people don't immediately answer their phones, and distract myself while waiting for a return call.

On the weekend, I just couldn't seem to contain my anxiety. I called and texted several times in a short time period. When they called back (from a cafe with friends - phone had been on silent) once I knew they were safe, I apologized for my anxious behaviour, because it had the potential to be invalidating and intrusive. "I'm so sorry. My anxiety got the better of me." The problem was me, not them having the phone on silent. 

I agree that 'drama queen' is a particularly invalidating phrase. It has a sting (I've felt it). I would never use it to describe my perception of anxious behaviours. 

People tend to have a lot more to give the anxious person when the anxious person is engaging with treatment and strategies, even if they still struggle at times. Living with anxiety/living with the anxiety of others - it's tough all round at times.

 

 

 

[happi duck]

@Melissa Louise I think we *are* on the same page.  I'd be sorry I inconvenienced someone by interrupting their meal with a flurry of messages.  I would not apologize for being anxious.  And, ftr, if I were in the same situation I too would first call upon my learned skills and work through it if possible without panicking.  

[Melissa Louise]

Just now, happi duck said:

@Melissa Louise I think we *are* on the same page.  I'd be sorry I inconvenienced someone by interrupting their meal with a flurry of messages.  I would not apologize for being anxious.  And, ftr, if I were in the same situation I too would first call upon my learned skills and work through it if possible without panicking.  

Yes, I don't think I apologized for my anxious feelings - just my less than helpful anxious behaviours. I find it helpful to split them - I truly can't help the feelings, at times, but I can manage my behaviour ( or apologize for not doing so). 

Ann's dd isn't bad or wrong because she has big, difficult to manage emotions. She just has some responsibility for how her (untreated) behaviours affect others. 

[KSera]

26 minutes ago, Melissa Louise said:

Ann's dd isn't bad or wrong because she has big, difficult to manage emotions. She just has some responsibility for how her (untreated) behaviours affect others. 

Right. I don’t get the idea she has taken any responsibility for any of that though, unless I’m misunderstanding and projecting my own situation. I get the idea it’s always considered other people’s fault for having triggered and not accommodated the anxiety.

[Melissa Louise]

14 minutes ago, KSera said:

Right. I don’t get the idea she has taken any responsibility for any of that though, unless I’m misunderstanding and projecting my own situation. I get the idea it’s always considered other people’s fault for having triggered and not accommodated the anxiety.

No, it sounds like she hasn't (yet). 

[Ann.without.an.e]

I wasn't really planning to revisit this thread but I asked dd if she could send me dh's text (he deletes his texts so he said I could read them but he didn't have them anymore) and I feel like they overreacted to them. He used a lot of words for him haha. He never once called her a drama queen or even implied it. I'm not sure that even I, as peacemaker - ish as I always am, can help this situation. DH says we did no wrong but DD says he did wrong and she is hurt and he needs to apologize. I am forgiven of course because I did apologize. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Ann.without.an.e

[Ann.without.an.e]

Deleted

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Ann.without.an.e

[Jean in Newcastle]

I applaud your dh. Now it’s time to leave it and hope and pray for growth. 

[Scarlett]

Your Dh is a rock star.  

[fairfarmhand]

1 minute ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I applaud your dh. Now it’s time to leave it and hope and pray for growth. 

I agree with this.

[Ann.without.an.e]

5 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I applaud your dh. Now it’s time to leave it and hope and pray for growth. 

There is literally nothing I can do, Jean. SIL told me that DH texted saying she was playing the victim card and that he called her a drama queen. I've dealt with people who skew truth to match their own emotional narrative. It never ends well. I'm truly out. Like done. They can figure it out. This is exactly the sort of stuff my IL's pulled all the time but way worse with IL’s and with more drama. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Ann.without.an.e

[livetoread]

Well then it sounds settled on your part. If dd wants to continue to rehash any of it with you, I would just keep saying, "You need to discuss that with dh," and change the subject. If she persists, I'd add, "I don't want to keep talking about this." You especially don't need to hear her complaints about dh. You have been through the wringer, clearly, and I know what it's like to not be able to sleep because of conflict in the family, but it's your job now to let it go. Dd's relationship with dh will be okay. They'll figure it out, maybe not quickly or easily, but it will be better for all concerned to do it without you in the middle. 

Editing to add, and those goes for any other family member trying to get involved. Good grief. 

 

Edited June 21, 2022 by livetoread

[Ann.without.an.e]

nvm

Edited June 21, 2022 by Ann.without.an.e

[Forget-Me-Not]

So the son-in-law who has had freak outs when you made suggestions on topics he was actively discussing with you (like the phone plan thing) is now inserting himself into this disagreement between you, your DH and your DD?  
 

No. Just no.  He doesn’t get to have it both ways.
 

I missed the OP but I’ve gathered most of the details from this thread. If he continues, I would say something like, “You’ve asked me to respect your boundaries on XYZ in the past. Now you need to respect mine here. I will not discuss this with you further.”  
 

I 1000% agree with what your DH wrote.  It’s time to drop your end of the rope in this game of tug-of-war. Tell her you’re done discussing it. 
 

P.S.  several things you’ve mentioned here about your son-in-law make me think he’s controlling and possibly wading into abusive territory. Other posters have mentioned this too. I am concerned he’s fanning the flames on his end so he can drive a wedge in (“they don’t understand you like I do”, “nobody loves you like I do”, “just forget them”, etc). I’m not sure what you can do about this, but I’d for darn sure bring it up with your therapist. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Forget-Me-Not

[Catwoman]

53 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

There is literally nothing I can do, Jean. SIL told me that DH texted saying she was playing the victim card and that he called her a drama queen. I've dealt with people who skew truth to match their own emotional narrative. It never ends well. I'm truly out. Like done. They can figure it out. This is exactly the sort of stuff my IL's pulled all the time but way worse for them and with more drama. 

If your SIL gives you any more attitude, I would call him out on his lies. Are you sure he isn’t trying to break your family apart? He seems malicious to me.

You dd doesn’t deserve your sympathy, either. She is way out of line, and her expectations are absolutely ridiculous. If she mentions wanting your dh to apologize again, I think you should very firmly defend your dh, 100%.  Your dd and SIL are behaving horrendously and between your dd’s ludicrous level of entitlement and your SIL’s flat-out lies, I would be in no rush to be nice to them until they apologize to both you and your DH. I don’t think you can tolerate this kind of behavior — it’s too egregious.

[Ann.without.an.e]

15 minutes ago, Forget-Me-Not said:

 

P.S.  several things you’ve mentioned here about your son-in-law make me think he’s controlling and possibly wading into abusive territory. Other posters have mentioned this too. I am concerned he’s fanning the flames on his end so he can drive a wedge in (“they don’t understand you like I do”, “nobody loves you like I do”, “just forget them”, etc). I’m not sure what you can do about this, but I’d for darn sure bring it up with your therapist. 

i have feared this too but there’s nothing I can do about it. It seems almost more suspicious to me that anytime there is conflict the first thing he texts me is that he is not driving a wedge between us and DD. Maybe he’s expressing that since he’s truly trying hard not to do that or maybe he’s trying to seem innocent since he knows he’s guilty. We had conflict before SIL with Dd and her emotions but it always resolved quickly. Ever Since this relationship it doesn’t. It feels drawn out and exhausting. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Ann.without.an.e

[Forget-Me-Not]

5 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

i have feared this too but there’s nothing I can do about it. It seems almost more suspicious to me that anytime there is conflict the first thing he texts me is that he is not driving a wedge between us and DD. Maybe he’s expressing that since he’s truly trying hard not to do that or maybe he’s trying to seem innocent since he knows he’s guilty. We had conflict before SIL with Dd and her emotions but it always resolved quickly. Ever Since this relationship it doesn’t. It feels drawn out and exhausting. 

Yikes. Perhaps the therapist can help you frame some responses to him when he pulls this? 

[BusyMom5]

44 minutes ago, Forget-Me-Not said:

So the son-in-law who has had freak outs when you made suggestions on topics he was actively discussing with you (like the phone plan thing) is now inserting himself into this disagreement between you, your DH and your DD?  
 

No. Just no.  He doesn’t get to have it both ways.
 

I missed the OP but I’ve gathered most of the details from this thread. If he continues, I would say something like, “You’ve asked me to respect your boundaries on XYZ in the past. Now you need to respect mine here. I will not discuss this with you further.”  
 

I 1000% agree with what your DH wrote.  It’s time to drop your end of the rope in this game of tug-of-war. Tell her you’re done discussing it. 
 

P.S.  several things you’ve mentioned here about your son-in-law make me think he’s controlling and possibly wading into abusive territory. Other posters have mentioned this too. I am concerned he’s fanning the flames on his end so he can drive a wedge in (“they don’t understand you like I do”, “nobody loves you like I do”, “just forget them”, etc). I’m not sure what you can do about this, but I’d for darn sure bring it up with your therapist. 

This!  I have tried to write a response several times today but couldn't find a polite way to phrase it.  I have felt this way since your first post about him.  I have watched this happen a few times in my life, and its horrible and sad.  I don't want this to be your future,  or DDs, but he's manipulative and your DD is a perfect victim to groom.  He is setting himself up as her White Knight, fighting her adversary- YOU!  He is not just enabling her anxiety, he feeds it.  They are bonding over mental health issues and family drama.  The drama is on purpose- everyone on this thread agrees that this entire situation is ridiculous- and so was the phone and his responses to you.  He is using key words to make himself look as if he's the self-aware, mature person.  He's not.  I think he's a monster.  He will use therapy to twist himself into the "right" while you are the wrong.   He's smart.  He knows what he's doing.  Maybe his family is as bad as he claims and its in his DNA to manipulate.   Or maybe they aren't and he's fooled all of you- I don't know.  

You asked how you should respond,  of you should apologize and I think at this point you see that you really weren't in the wrong and he blew this up- not just DD- SIL, too.  He is driving a wedge- actively- right now.  You are a good-hearted person and keep trying to see the good in him.  I think you need to stop looking at him with rose-colored glasses. Pray that she can find her way out soon.  

You and your DH need to think long and hard about how you will respond to them in the future.  Be honest about them, look at actions over words.  Its hard.  I'm sorry.  Sometime, maybe over the weekend when you are both better rested and ready to talk without getting too upset, write out a plan.  

PS- Your DHs texts were perfect.  

[Ann.without.an.e]

3 hours ago, BusyMom5 said:

3 hours ago, Forget-Me-Not said:

Yikes. Perhaps the therapist can help you frame some responses to him when he pulls this? 

 

 

I have feared that is what is happening but I also can’t let my mind run away with those fears. I have no real proof that he’s driving a wedge. I can see how something could be  true and I can fear it but unless I have proof I have to let that fear go. I gently tried to have a convo about this fear once with Dd and she got so defensive and upset that I’ve never really tried again. It won’t bode well for me. 

[Dianthus]

4 hours ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

 

I have feared that is what is happening but I also can’t let my mind run away with those fears. I have no real proof that he’s driving a wedge. I can see how something could be  true and I can fear it but unless I have proof I have to let that fear go. I gently tried to have a convo about this fear once with Dd and she got so defensive and upset that I’ve never really tried again. It won’t bode well for me. 

It seems premature for these thoughts but you know him better. I would just think he wants to side with and support his wife. And that he enjoys drama. 

If you don't have a will, you should.

[Farrar]

I think my response to the "I'm not driving a wedge" texts from your sil would be something like, "We appreciate that you don't want to drive a wedge. However, sometimes adding more people to a situation just adds more chances for miscommunication and triangulation. Sometimes I also have to step back when dh has a clash with someone - dd or otherwise - because I realize I'm not helping even thought I want to. The best way to not drive a wedge is to support dd, know we love her, but not try to be the mediator or the messenger."

And then I think the best thing would be to stick to that messaging over and over. "Thanks for sharing that, but we really need to hear from dd about how she feels." "I appreciate your concern, but this is between dd and dh/sibling/other person and they have to be the ones to talk without intermediaries." "Thanks for supporting dd, but we're all trying to make sure we communicate directly with dd." "We can't act on that until we talk to dd. This is between her and us." "We're not going to engage with you about this, sil. We know you love dd and so do we, but this is between us." Over and over and over.

[Jaybee]

19 hours ago, City Mouse said:

At the time I told her that she is well within her rights to establish her own boundaries, but so can DH. 

👍 I like this.

[Jaybee]

I have missed all the posts that were deleted. Just wanted to say, @Ann.without.an.e, that as a peacemaker, it probably tears you up to have a relationship that isn't going well (especially with a family member!!!). I am similar, and I really really hate it when misunderstandings arise, especially if I can't fix them. I have had a couple of relationships with people over the years that went something like this: Person and I befriend each other. We really connect. I begin to see a pattern in the person that they share hurts they have from people who haven't met their expectations. I start getting the feeling that one day, I am going to be that person. I try to prepare myself, while not changing the way I interact with them--trusting them with my own thoughts and feelings knowing I am taking a risk. Eventually, the person does take something I do or say and is hurt by it. I apologize, but the person makes more of the situation than was meant, and can't forgive me or accept me. The friendship fades, or in one case, ends with a boom. Thankfully, this has only happened a couple of times.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that, while you can beat yourself up for not doing everything perfectly, it was going to happen with dd and sil. If not now, next week or year. So while you are going to make mistakes because you are human, sometimes people have very unrealistic expectations of us that are just not fair, and there is no winning. In one of the above relationships, afterwards, I realized that I had been so stressed in that friendship, because I could not be myself. Her personality was really strong, and she didn't have room to accept me as I was--I had to be an echo of her thoughts and feelings, so I had gotten to the point that I didn't express mine a whole lot, because it was tiring defending my right to have my own. She also had meant a lot to me and encouraged me through a lot of hard times. But I realized that while I would never have ended the friendship, to have it ended, while it was incredibly painful, also gave some relief. I tried to mend it, but everything I did blew it up worse. So then I accepted it, grieved it, and became free of it. I know this being your daughter, it's harder to do. But some element of accepting/recognizing that they will not be appeased at some point, grieving it, and leaving things to them, could also give you some freedom. It isn't all on you to pull them close. They probably need that space as well, in order to mature and grow up. Hugs.

[livetoread]

While it's possible SIL is serious trouble, I would not jump to that yet. It's also quite possible he's young, immature, and clueless about how to be a good husband and SIL. One big clue will be how he accepts boundaries from you. People who are clueless but able to learn can understand boundaries, even if they struggle initially. People who are serious trouble can't. They respond poorly with manipulation and boundary violation repeatedly. So pay attention to his respect of your boundaries (and not just verbal respect, see if he follows through with his behavior.)

As I recall they are both pretty young and dd is certainly at an age where she would be separating from you both anyway. Marriage has accelerated that. Some kids make that process messy for whatever reason, but keep telling yourself it's okay for dd to distance from you guys, even if she is angry when she does it. You've talked before about how close you are with your daughters, and maybe this is something dd needs to do, even if she is doing it in hurtful ways. You may all very well come out the other side with a better relationship that has her more aware of other people's feelings. Thinking SIL might be abusive complicates that because you don't want him isolating her, but trying to keep her close just gets in the way of her need to distance. You can't control all of this, or even much of it, which is hard.

[TechWife]

Regarding: "anytime there is conflict the first thing he texts me is that he is not driving a wedge between us and DD."

I'm no expert on the subject, but that seems eerily similar to gaslighting. He's basically saying he's not doing what he then immediately proceeds to communicate info that can do just that. Don't let him do that - be aware. @gardenmom5always has great advice on recognizing and responding to these techniques.

[Katy]

I would call him on the triangulation and gaslighting every time. Other than that, drop it. Unless he’s a sociopath all of it is either an unconscious defense mechanism OR he’s just immature. And there’s nothing you can do about either except always tell the gentle truth and refuse to walk on eggshells.

[freesia]

47 minutes ago, livetoread said:

While it's possible SIL is serious trouble, I would not jump to that yet. It's also quite possible he's young, immature, and clueless about how to be a good husband and SIL. One big clue will be how he accepts boundaries from you. People who are clueless but able to learn can understand boundaries, even if they struggle initially. People who are serious trouble can't. They respond poorly with manipulation and boundary violation repeatedly. So pay attention to his respect of your boundaries (and not just verbal respect, see if he follows through with his behavior.)

As I recall they are both pretty young and dd is certainly at an age where she would be separating from you both anyway. Marriage has accelerated that. Some kids make that process messy for whatever reason, but keep telling yourself it's okay for dd to distance from you guys, even if she is angry when she does it. You've talked before about how close you are with your daughters, and maybe this is something dd needs to do, even if she is doing it in hurtful ways. You may all very well come out the other side with a better relationship that has her more aware of other people's feelings. Thinking SIL might be abusive complicates that because you don't want him isolating her, but trying to keep her close just gets in the way of her need to distance. You can't control all of this, or even much of it, which is hard.

That is a really good point about her separating. I have definitely seen friend’s dc provoking angry  confrontations the summer before college as a way to push parents away and make it less painful to leave. I am also thinking your dd, OP, didn’t got away to college and this may be part of her normal separation arc. Hmmm. Maybe let it drop and then let her set the pace of communication with you reaching out once a week if you haven’t heard from her as you’d do if she went to college. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

2 hours ago, livetoread said:

While it's possible SIL is serious trouble, I would not jump to that yet. It's also quite possible he's young, immature, and clueless about how to be a good husband and SIL. One big clue will be how he accepts boundaries from you. People who are clueless but able to learn can understand boundaries, even if they struggle initially. People who are serious trouble can't. They respond poorly with manipulation and boundary violation repeatedly. So pay attention to his respect of your boundaries (and not just verbal respect, see if he follows through with his behavior.)

 

Thinking on it I don’t think he’s toxic or trying to drive a wedge. I think it is more the above. He loves her and he’s being pulled in to her strong emotional state. I’ve been there many times and reacted similarly to him and he is new to this. He does accept boundaries. 
He actually reached out to me yesterday and ask me to please not text her about this because he’s trying his best to bring peace and logic to her and anytime I reach out it undoes it because she reads into words and she doesn’t need more words now. This is what a lot of you also said so I stopped. 
He says he’s trying to bring peace and balance to her himself and get her to see the perspectives of others. It’s just she’s so devastated that he thinks the only solution is for DH to apologize because he’s had no luck reaching her. Because he knows that’s the only solution he’s just tried too hard and been dramatic to try to make that happen.
My bigger concern for SIL is more for him because I think that he’s taking my role. He is very emotionally available for her and empathetic and I was that for her and he’s now filled that for her. Now he’s the one getting pulled in by her high Emotions and if he can’t find a way to keep a balance he’ll end up as hurt as I was in that position. 

Edited June 21, 2022 by Ann.without.an.e

[Jean in Newcastle]

Don't get pulled in by his need now instead.  I'm not saying to be callous but recognizing the boundaries of you can really control.  If you are a Christian, this is the "give it to God" time.  If not, perhaps "live in the moment"? 

[Slache]

Regarding SIL. I don't know his history, but from previous posts he was emotionally abused as a child. In recovery circles where we talk about narcissism we use the term "fleas" to describe bad behavior learned from narcissists, as in you might not be a dog but if you live with a dog with enough fleas you will get them. One or more of his parents was incredibly toxic and he picked up their behaviors just like the rest of us do. It sounds like he's working on them. I would call them out but gently and with balance as it will be perceived as an attack.

@Farrar gave great advice regarding the triangulation, but I have to disagree with it under these circumstances. I think that everything is going to be be viewed as an "us vs them" situation and by excluding him I think this is going to be viewed as trying to single her out and ganging up on her, which will push her further away. Farrar, I tagged you in case you want to disagree.

I know my posts kind of suggest continuing to walk on eggshells. Sorry.

[livetoread]

17 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

My bigger concern for SIL is more for him because I think that he’s taking my role. He is very emotionally available for her and empathetic and I was that for her and he’s now filled that for her. Now he’s the one getting pulled in by her high Emotions and if he can’t find a way to keep a balance he’ll end up as hurt as I was in that position. 

Yes that is certainly possible. Seems to me the best course for everyone is to allow dd to feel her big feelings without trying to get her to change them. It's perfectly fine for her to get upset about things. If the rest of you acknowledge the feelings but don't turn yourselves inside out trying to get her to feel differently, the temperature goes down eventually. Her brain has some growing to do still and she may very well be better able to deal with the feelings as she gets older. In the meantime, your dh is on to something. Her feelings don't have to be your problem - she can feel them and you can carry on. You don't have to give in to her demands when you see things differently, and she can be upset. It's okay.

[Farrar]

34 minutes ago, Slache said:

Regarding SIL. I don't know his history, but from previous posts he was emotionally abused as a child. In recovery circles where we talk about narcissism we use the term "fleas" to describe bad behavior learned from narcissists, as in you might not be a dog but if you live with a dog with enough fleas you will get them. One or more of his parents was incredibly toxic and he picked up their behaviors just like the rest of us do. It sounds like he's working on them. I would call them out but gently and with balance as it will be perceived as an attack.

@Farrar gave great advice regarding the triangulation, but I have to disagree with it under these circumstances. I think that everything is going to be be viewed as an "us vs them" situation and by excluding him I think this is going to be viewed as trying to single her out and ganging up on her, which will push her further away. Farrar, I tagged you in case you want to disagree.

I know my posts kind of suggest continuing to walk on eggshells. Sorry.

I don't necessarily disagree. At least, not exactly. I mean, obviously I think the ideal would be to gently but firmly remind him that you want to avoid triangulating and then not engage. But... I'm also a fan of not having hard and fast rules and adapting when it makes sense and doing what works. So I think these are good thoughts.

[Ann.without.an.e]

.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Ann.without.an.e

[Forget-Me-Not]

⬆️ This was your son’s take? 

[Ann.without.an.e]

5 minutes ago, Forget-Me-Not said:

⬆️ This was your son’s take? 

Yes my older sons

 

sorry I wanted feedback on it but I also just didn’t know if it was helpful to post

 his perspective of control was something I hadn’t thought about 

 

I can repost if y’all want

Edited June 21, 2022 by Ann.without.an.e

[fairfarmhand]

37 minutes ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

Yes my older sons

 

sorry I wanted feedback on it but I also just didn’t know if it was helpful to post

 his perspective of control was something I hadn’t thought about 

 

I can repost if y’all want

Dang it. I went to the store and missed it.

[Forget-Me-Not]

1 hour ago, Ann.without.an.e said:

Yes my older sons

 

sorry I wanted feedback on it but I also just didn’t know if it was helpful to post

 his perspective of control was something I hadn’t thought about 

 

I can repost if y’all want

I read it. I agree with him, at least with what I know of what’s been said about her here. 

[Scarlett]

58 minutes ago, fairfarmhand said:

Dang it. I went to the store and missed it.

Me too!