Shooting at a Texas elementary school

[Ausmumof3]

2 minutes ago, Ceilingfan said:

Ausmom, I have no idea; I don't own guns. Grace Hopper, it's not stupidity, just ignorance. An AK-47 is an automatic weapon. A machine gun. Conflating AK-47s and AR15s is dishonest at best; no one is buying a machine gun at Walmart. 

OK. My DH is a gun owner here and supports sensible measures. He sometimes complains that the measures don’t add up or make sense. But to achieve sensible laws you need people who know about firearms involved in making those laws. It seems like in the US the conversation is run by those who oppose all reform even though there seem to be a lot of gun owners that think there should be some. Why don’t those voices have more influence?

Obviously I’m outside and I just don’t understand. Very few Australians do. When we get involved in the discussion we mostly get told that Australia is a prison island due to our covid response, and that would never happen in America because guns. Obviously, knowing my stance on covid, I totally disagree with this and thing that comes from an impression based on a handful of media reports out of Melbourne. But you can’t really respond to that. Anyway. I know it’s pretty much pointless getting involved. 

[Faith-manor]

1 minute ago, Heartstrings said:

The same people saying that people that aren't experts in guns are too ignorant to make law about guns are just fine making laws about women's bodies when they are ignorant about reproduction.  

 

Not just that, but have you seen senators talk to Zuckerburg or any other tech giants in hearings?  They are regulating tech when they are still confused on how email works and think algorithms are about heart functions. 

 

Why are guns the only things we must have perfect knowledge of before being allowed an opinion? 

Hear hear! The ammosexuals and their defenders need to take a seat.

[Heartstrings]

AR 15s are not just "regular" guns, no different than a hunting rifle, nothing to see here.  It is not ignorant to see and recognize the truth of that.   

 

Routine handgun injuries leave entry and exit wounds and linear tracks through the victim’s body that are roughly the size of the bullet. If the bullet does not directly hit something crucial like the heart or the aorta, and the victim does not bleed to death before being transported to our care at the trauma center, chances are that we can save him. The bullets fired by an AR-15 are different: They travel at a higher velocity and are far more lethal than routine bullets fired from a handgun. The damage they cause is a function of the energy they impart as they pass through the body. A typical AR-15 bullet leaves the barrel traveling almost three times faster than—and imparting more than three times the energy of—a typical 9mm bullet from a handgun.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/02/what-i-saw-treating-the-victims-from-parkland-should-change-the-debate-on-guns/553937/

 

[KSera]

43 minutes ago, Ceilingfan said:

An AR-15 is nothing like an AK-47, for what it's worth. They just both start with the letter A and are guns. An AR-15 is more like a .22 than it is like an automatic rifle (AK-47).

This kind of claim is why gun rights people think the left are too ignorant to be making gun laws 

The damage done to a person’s body by an AR-15 is not at all like with a .22. Did you read the Atlantic article from the radiologist above? Here’s another one with more details on the physics:

The Simple Physics That Makes Some Bullets Deadlier Than Others

“Semiautomatic rifles don’t shoot the largest bullets on the market. In fact, the .223 projectile, a common round for the AR-15, is not much larger than many .22 rounds like the Hornet, typically used for youth shooting sports, target shooting, and hunting varmints. The .223 weighs in at 55 grains, while the .22 is usually 45 grains or smaller.

What makes the .223 potentially deadlier than the .22 is its velocity. When the .223 exits the barrel of a gun, it flies at more than 3,200 feet per second, and is still going 1,660 feet per second after traveling 500 yards. The .22, meanwhile, leaves the muzzle at 2,690 feet per second, and slows to 840 feet per second at 500 yards. At that long distance, the .223 will slam into its target with almost twice the speed of the .22. The .223 is carrying 335 foot-pounds of force, while the .22 carries 70 foot-pounds.

Slow-motion videos of ballistics tests clearly illustrate this difference. Watch the .22 and the .223 tested on blocks of ballistics gelatin, a material that mimics human tissue. The .223 generates a far larger shock wave, and penetrates farther, than the .22.”

As for the ending statement in your post, it’s a laughable thing to say considering the “gun rights people” fighting against common sense gun legislation are also the same group who fall for all kinds of conspiracy theories and have allowed themselves to die of Covid at much higher rates than the general population because they are so ignorant of science.

 

[AmandaVT]

Ugh - this is one town away from me. 

https://vtdigger.org/2022/05/25/montpelier-police-seize-weapons-in-investigation-of-potential-threat-to-high-school/
 

[Heartstrings]

2 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

OK. My DH is a gun owner here and supports sensible measures. He sometimes complains that the measures don’t add up or make sense. But to achieve sensible laws you need people who know about firearms involved in making those laws. It seems like in the US the conversation is run by those who oppose all reform even though there seem to be a lot of gun owners that think there should be some. Why don’t those voices have more influence?

Obviously I’m outside and I just don’t understand. Very few Australians do. When we get involved in the discussion we mostly get told that Australia is a prison island due to our covid response, and that would never happen in America because guns. Obviously, knowing my stance on covid, I totally disagree with this and thing that comes from an impression based on a handful of media reports out of Melbourne. But you can’t really respond to that. Anyway. I know it’s pretty much pointless getting involved. 

 The crazy gun owners are the ones with power and influence and they drown out the sensible ones.  That makes the sensible ones duck their heads and keep quiet.  

[Heartstrings]

1 minute ago, AmandaVT said:

Ugh - this is one town away from me. 

https://vtdigger.org/2022/05/25/montpelier-police-seize-weapons-in-investigation-of-potential-threat-to-high-school/
 

Glad they are doing something at least.  

[Grace Hopper]

23 minutes ago, Ceilingfan said:

Ausmom, I have no idea; I don't own guns. Grace Hopper, it's not stupidity, just ignorance. An AK-47 is an automatic weapon. A machine gun. Conflating AK-47s and AR15s is dishonest at best; no one is buying a machine gun at Walmart. 
 

AK-47’s have been used in mass shooting events. Somebody’s getting them from somewhere. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Grace Hopper

[Ausmumof3]

14 minutes ago, KSera said:

The damage done to a person’s body by an AR-15 is not at all like with a .22. Did you read the Atlantic article from the radiologist above? Here’s another one with more details on the physics:

The Simple Physics That Makes Some Bullets Deadlier Than Others

“Semiautomatic rifles don’t shoot the largest bullets on the market. In fact, the .223 projectile, a common round for the AR-15, is not much larger than many .22 rounds like the Hornet, typically used for youth shooting sports, target shooting, and hunting varmints. The .223 weighs in at 55 grains, while the .22 is usually 45 grains or smaller.

What makes the .223 potentially deadlier than the .22 is its velocity. When the .223 exits the barrel of a gun, it flies at more than 3,200 feet per second, and is still going 1,660 feet per second after traveling 500 yards. The .22, meanwhile, leaves the muzzle at 2,690 feet per second, and slows to 840 feet per second at 500 yards. At that long distance, the .223 will slam into its target with almost twice the speed of the .22. The .223 is carrying 335 foot-pounds of force, while the .22 carries 70 foot-pounds.

Slow-motion videos of ballistics tests clearly illustrate this difference. Watch the .22 and the .223 tested on blocks of ballistics gelatin, a material that mimics human tissue. The .223 generates a far larger shock wave, and penetrates farther, than the .22.”

As for the ending statement in your post, it’s a laughable thing to say considering the “gun rights people” fighting against common sense gun legislation are also the same group who fall for all kinds of conspiracy theories and have allowed themselves to die of Covid at much higher rates than the general population because they are so ignorant of science.

 

223 is commonly used for deer or Roos here (similar body size to humans). Using a 22 for that short of being used point blank for euthanasia is generally seen as irresponsible/inhumane. 
 

Eta - basically 22 is a rabbit or fox round 223 is for larger mammals. Definitely capable of more damage.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Ausmumof3

[Grace Hopper]

Sorry y’all, my anger is just turning to meanness now, so I’ll check out for the night. 

[Heartstrings]

nm

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Heartstrings

[KSera]

8 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

223 is commonly used for deer or Roos here (similar body size to humans). Using a 22 for that short of being used point blank for euthanasia is generally seen as irresponsible/inhumane. 

That’s kind of the point—an AR-15 shooting .223 is far more deadly. How are they regulated there? Can someone have a high capacity magazine?

[Heartstrings]

13 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

223 is commonly used for deer or Roos here (similar body size to humans). Using a 22 for that short of being used point blank for euthanasia is generally seen as irresponsible/inhumane. 
 

Eta - basically 22 is a rabbit or fox round 223 is for larger mammals. Definitely capable of more damage.

That's why it feels like gas lighting to be told that they are practically the same thing and that if we think they aren't we are just ignorant about guns. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Heartstrings

[MercyA]

My husband likes this basketball coach and he had some good things to say.

 

[Elona]

39 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

It seems like in the US the conversation is run by those who oppose all reform even though there seem to be a lot of gun owners that think there should be some. Why don’t those voices have more influence?

Because those voices don't have enough money to buy a politician who will support such reform. You have to understand how much money running a campaign here costs - it is insane, and that money is required to have a chance of winning. Right now, the voices on the side of reform do not have a large enough majority of lawmakers to actually pass legislation. This has a lot to do with how voting jurisdictions are set up here, in addition to the money. Basically, those against reform have worked very hard to ensure that they keep control by making voting more and more difficult for those who would oppose them. 

I realize that I am walking a fine line here and that this may be considered to be political discussion. But I really do want to shed light on how this situation has come to be for members in other countries. Of course, I have my own personal understanding, which is not free from bias. I won't discuss further, as I don't want to break the rules.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Elona

[Sneezyone]

31 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

223 is commonly used for deer or Roos here (similar body size to humans). Using a 22 for that short of being used point blank for euthanasia is generally seen as irresponsible/inhumane. 
 

Eta - basically 22 is a rabbit or fox round 223 is for larger mammals. Definitely capable of more damage.

The whole point is to kill with one well-placed shot. They’re military arms and intended to conserve munitions and kill very effectively. Ammosexuals treat them like toys, like a red Ryder BB Gun which, oddly enough, the adults  knew was more likely to injure their own child. We’ve regressed. Significantly. Too many families have lost their damned minds and indulge their kids’ obsessions with guns and extremist behavior and views. You’re not a freaking friend. You’re a parent. LEAD RESPONSIBLY. Commit teens before they’re old enough to buy guns, create a record that could be found with a trigger law. I want to see expanded liability for EVERY negligent party from the Congress to the State, to the district, and parents.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Ausmumof3]

10 minutes ago, KSera said:

That’s kind of the point—an AR-15 shooting .223 is far more deadly. How are they regulated there? Can someone have a high capacity magazine?

Yep, I was agreeing if that wasn’t clear. It’s different between the different states - we are one of the more lax ones. Basically there’s four classes, A, B, C & D plus H & P. You have to have a purpose for use - either target/gun club or primary production. There is a TAFE course you have to do - I think a couple of days or training at the club. Also you can only use your weapon for the purpose of use you applied for - so if you only applied for contract shooter you can’t also use it on your private property. You can go for both primary production and contract shooting but you have to have them listed as your purpose of use. Some of the higher categories require the permit holders to hold a certain level of public liability insurance. You also need to store it in an approved lockable safe unless it’s in transit or use.

[Murphy101]

52 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Both were designed for military use.

I don’t think there are any guns in history that weren’t at least initially designed for military use.

But the convo went off the rails proving yet again there’s no point in discussing this.

So oh well. Welcome to the Modern Wild West.  Never leave home without God and Kevlar.  Because this society isn’t going to do anything to reduce the odds of getting shot tomorrow.

[Ausmumof3]

https://lawhandbook.sa.gov.au/ch12s06s05s04.php
 

 more detail here if anyone is interested. Not that I think anything like that would ever pass in the US

[Sneezyone]

5 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I don’t think there are any guns in history that weren’t at least initially designed for military use.

But the convo went off the rails proving yet again there’s no point in discussing this.

So oh well. Welcome to the Modern Wild West.  Never leave home without God and Kevlar.  Because this society isn’t going to do anything to reduce the odds of getting shot tomorrow.

They haven’t always been handed over to civilians without purpose or regulation. I know it’s cool now to hand out tanks to rural PDs but unless we’re conceding that the US is, in fact, a war zone…I am not conceding the need for military rifles in civilian hands.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Sneezyone

[ktgrok]

1 hour ago, Ceilingfan said:

An AR-15 is nothing like an AK-47, for what it's worth. They just both start with the letter A and are guns. An AR-15 is more like a .22 than it is like an automatic rifle (AK-47).

This kind of claim is why gun rights people think the left are too ignorant to be making gun laws 

Seriously? That's ignorant if anything is. An AR-15 is the american, lighter, more accurate version of an AK-47. And having actually shot both an AR15 and a 22 rifle, they are nothing alike.

1 hour ago, Ceilingfan said:

Ausmom, I have no idea; I don't own guns. Grace Hopper, it's not stupidity, just ignorance. An AK-47 is an automatic weapon. A machine gun. Conflating AK-47s and AR15s is dishonest at best; no one is buying a machine gun at Walmart. 

No, an AK-47 that is legally sold in the US is NOT a fully automatic weapon. It is a semi automatic, same as an AR 15. In fact, the AR 15 can fire more rounds quickly, and is more accurate, and has a higher muzzle speed than an AK 47. 

[ktgrok]

50 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

223 is commonly used for deer or Roos here (similar body size to humans). Using a 22 for that short of being used point blank for euthanasia is generally seen as irresponsible/inhumane. 
 

Eta - basically 22 is a rabbit or fox round 223 is for larger mammals. Definitely capable of more damage.

Yup. To even imply that a 22 is going to do the same damage as an AR is laughable. 

[Sneezyone]

This is totally tongue in cheek b/c no one listens to women, not about their bodies, needs, preferences, or anything else, but for the love of God, the arguments available on/among hive members are more compelling than anything happening in state legislatures or on Capitol Hill. We are *needed*. Our voices are important and necessary. Make of that what you will.

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, ktgrok said:

Seriously? That's ignorant if anything is. An AR-15 is the american, lighter, more accurate version of an AK-47. And having actually shot both an AR15 and a 22 rifle, they are nothing alike.

No, an AK-47 that is legally sold in the US is NOT a fully automatic weapon. It is a semi automatic, same as an AR 15. In fact, the AR 15 can fire more rounds quickly, and is more accurate, and has a higher muzzle speed than an AK 47. 

For those who don’t know, fully automatic ‘machine gun’ weapons were banned during prohibition (80-90 years ago) b/c carnage and death still mattered. Mod kits and techniques are now openly exchanged/sold that convert semis to full. Who needs that tho when you can legally obtain seven 30-round clips?

Edited May 26, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Corraleno]

San Jose PD seized a large cache of guns and ammo yesterday, including illegally modified assault weapons, from a guy who had been stalking and threatening former coworkers at a company that fired him in January. SJPD said they were motivated to speed up the investigation and arrest him because of the Buffalo shooting, and they believe they prevented a "catastrophe." 

The idea that this is what the founding fathers meant by a "well regulated militia" is just asinine.

[Melissa in Australia]

8 hours ago, KSera said:

That’s kind of the point—an AR-15 shooting .223 is far more deadly. How are they regulated there? Can someone have a high capacity magazine?

I don't have any knowledge about different gun at all. 

 However I have 2 sons who are majorly into hunting. Deer mostly.. One has a sniper gun. I don't have any idea what type of gun, but he can shoot a deer from an incredible distance.

You have to pass a test to get a gun license. You cannot buy a gun without the license. Here gun serial numbers are recorded when gun is purchased, the local police  have a list of everyone in the area who has a gun and the serial number. There is a limit on the amount of guns you can have. They do a random check every 12 months or so to make sure the guns are stored correctly.  Guns have to be stored in a gun safe, that has to be bolted down. Ammunition has to be stored separately. To have some types of guns you need to prove you are a farmer or have a hunting permit. Hand guns can only be owned by people in special clubs and have different regulations. 

Semi automatic and automatic guns are banned here, and the general thought from hunters in Australia is if you are such a bad shot that you need multiple bullets then you shouldn't have a gun. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Melissa in Australia
spelling

[Melissa in Australia]

Re on protecting self from wildlife. Dh is Canadian, before he came to Australia he did many many long canoe camping trips all over Canada. He never took a gun, just stored food a long way from tents. He never ever had any problems with bears, even though he saw bears etc while out. He knows a lot of Canadians who also go camping in the wilderness in Canada, none if them ever take guns. Aparently there are way less people attacked by bears in Canada than shark attack here. And there aren't many shark attacks

[Heartstrings]

6 minutes ago, Corraleno said:

San Jose PD seized a large cache of guns and ammo yesterday, including illegally modified assault weapons, from a guy who had been stalking and threatening former coworkers at a company that fired him in January. SJPD said they were motivated to speed up the investigation and arrest him because of the Buffalo shooting, and they believe they prevented a "catastrophe." 

The idea that this is what the founding fathers meant by a "well regulated militia" is just asinine.

I'm glad to see PDs taking red flags seriously. 

[Murphy101]

I thought this was a good article.  Not very familiar with the site.

https://theintercept.com/2022/05/25/texas-uvalde-shooting-school-police/

[Ausmumof3]

Another thing that keeps getting suggested is having only one access point to the school? I’m wondering how that works in an emergency situation where emergency personnel need access and that entrance is blocked? I can see how one way fire exits could work for getting people out but what if the fire brigade needs in to the school grounds etc? I mean they’re are going to get in if they have to but it will be slower and more damaging to buildings etc? Anyway just thinking. School security is pretty lax here although there’s more fencing than there used to be. Our local primary uses the public oval over the road for a play area and has minimal fencing. 
 

 

[Heartstrings]

17 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

I thought this was a good article.  Not very familiar with the site.

https://theintercept.com/2022/05/25/texas-uvalde-shooting-school-police/

Important line… 

“What does keep schools safe is having more well trained mental health counselors, social workers, and alternative resolution dispute programs,”

And I hate hearing that there’s no money for it, because there could be.  It’s a choice we’re making.  

[mommyoffive]

Uvalde grieves after school rampage while new details emerge about attack (msn.com)

 

The victims of the Uvalde school shooting: 'I will miss you forever' (yahoo.com)

Hearing some of the stories of the victims, just eternally breaks my heart.  The guy who lost 3 family members.  Or the dad who lost his dd and was nearby when it happened.  Those poor babies.  The poor families.   

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by mommyoffive

[Sneezyone]

32 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Another thing that keeps getting suggested is having only one access point to the school? I’m wondering how that works in an emergency situation where emergency personnel need access and that entrance is blocked? I can see how one way fire exits could work for getting people out but what if the fire brigade needs in to the school grounds etc? I mean they’re are going to get in if they have to but it will be slower and more damaging to buildings etc? Anyway just thinking. School security is pretty lax here although there’s more fencing than there used to be. Our local primary uses the public oval over the road for a play area and has minimal fencing. 
 

 

The exits are one way. The entrance is single entry. DDs high school was designed with shooters in mind. The entrance is circular so you can’t immediately shoot into a hallway. Classrooms are separated from the entry by a courtyard, etc. Architectural firms in the US actually specialize in this.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Frances]

10 hours ago, KSera said:

As seen in these "Christmas" family photos

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FS4w2xgWIAEXdt5?format=jpg&name=large

 

It sounds like we agree that people can have hunting weapons without having the kinds of high capacity weapons they currently have access to. For the latter part, I live surrounded by such wildlife and I don't know anyone that carries in the woods. Coyotes are almost never a danger to people--certainly not to adults, and bear attacks are so incredibly rare and bear spray works well in the rare chance a bear doesn't retreat. We have mountain lions as well, and they also aren't a problem. The are shy and stay out of sight of humans. Not to say that people carrying a gun for protection in the woods are part of the primary problem here, but it's relevant that far, far, FAR more of those people will have themself or a family member killed by that gun (suicide, homicide, or accidental) than will ever use the gun to protect themself.

Agreed. My dad spent tons of time in the woods for 40+ years, cutting wood to heat our home. He never owned any pistol, gun, or rifle.

[1234]

I really don’t understand how some keep talking about arming teachers when trained, armed police weren’t able to stop him for almost an hour. Some of the stories seem to suggest police were too afraid to go in so how in the heck are teachers supposed to stop these people? Most of my family are teachers and none of them would be useful with a gun in a crisis. 

 

[Sneezyone]

6 minutes ago, Joker2 said:

I really don’t understand how some keep talking about arming teachers when trained, armed police weren’t able to stop him for almost an hour. Some of the stories seem to suggest police were too afraid to go in so how in the heck are teachers supposed to stop these people? Most of my family are teachers and none of them would be useful with a gun in a crisis. 

 

The mistake is in thinking these people actually care to make meaningful change. They don’t. The guns, and the principle of unfettered access to any variety, make or model of them, are more valuable than live children. White ones are cheap but especially brown ones. Urban crime is a DEFENSE to mass murder, not a problem to be solved. Black, brown, Asian and Jewish lives in houses of worship or on the job are, by default, even lesser. Ammosexuals DO NOT CARE. They show it every day with their deeds. Talk is cheap. They refuse to act.

Edited May 26, 2022 by Sneezyone

[Pam in CT]

re the kind of measures ~a very great number~ of Americans could live with.

2 hours ago, Ausmumof3 said:

Yep, I was agreeing if that wasn’t clear. It’s different between the different states - we are one of the more lax ones. Basically there’s four classes, A, B, C & D plus H & P. You have to have a purpose for use - either target/gun club or primary production. There is a TAFE course you have to do - I think a couple of days or training at the club. Also you can only use your weapon for the purpose of use you applied for - so if you only applied for contract shooter you can’t also use it on your private property. You can go for both primary production and contract shooting but you have to have them listed as your purpose of use. Some of the higher categories require the permit holders to hold a certain level of public liability insurance. You also need to store it in an approved lockable safe unless it’s in transit or use.

 

1 hour ago, Melissa in Australia said:

I don't have any knowelage about different gun at all. 

 However I have 2 sons who are majorly into hunting. Deer mostly.. One has a sniper gun. I don't have any idea what type of gun, but he can shoot a deer from an increadable distance.

You have to pass a test to get a gun liscence. You cannot buy a gun without the liscence. Here gun serial numbers are recorded when gun is purchased, the local police  have a list of everyone in the area who has a gun and the serial number. There is a limit on the amount of guns you can have. They do a random check every 12 months or so to make sure the guns are stored correctly.  Guns have to be stored in a gun safe, that has to be bolted down. Ammunition has to be stored seperatly. To have some types of guns you need to prove you are a farmer or have a hunting permit. Hand guns can only be owned by people in special clubs and have different regulations. 

Semi automatic and automatic guns are banned here, and the general thought from hunters in Australia is if you are such a bad shot that you need multiple bullets then you shouldn't have a gun. 

We don't know, can't know, what % of Americans could find this kind of consensus ground, because outside of a small handful of state legislatures, lawmakers refuse to allow even the very most basic (background checks, training requirements, safe storage requirements, ghost guns) bills onto the floor for debate.

Sandy Hook was ten years ago. In its aftermath there were outpourings of grief throughout the state, that morphed into parent groups searching for "how do we even talk about this to our kids," that morphed into inchoate kaffeklatch "we need to do SOMETHING" halting efforts at organization, that morphed, slowly, into meaningful state level legislation.

It's not enough: anyone who wants anything can drive in any direction for 2 hours and get anything they want.  This is a national problem.

But it's a start.

[Pam in CT]

re Arm the Teachers

11 minutes ago, Joker2 said:

I really don’t understand how some keep talking about arming teachers when trained, armed police weren’t able to stop him for almost an hour. Some of the stories seem to suggest police were too afraid to go in so how in the heck are teachers supposed to stop these people? Most of my family are teachers and none of them would be useful with a gun in a crisis. 

 

yeah, there's maybe a degree of ideological inconsistency

 

[Sneezyone]

16 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

re Arm the Teachers

yeah, there's maybe a degree of ideological inconsistency

 

Like many here, I’ve worked in education professionally k-16 and know educators who have quit just this week. While this is primarily a homeschooling forum, no one should welcome the collapse of public education (a field already hurting for qualified personnel)  because we refuse to protect against gun violence, especially our most vulnerable. Public education helps us all and when homeschoolers struggle and can’t continue they need that *SAFE* backstop too. I believe in working for and serving the least of these...not Caesar, not Pharaoh, and not Mammon. We are not OK right now!! If you’re a single-issue ‘life’ voter, you ought to be questioning your pearly gate scorecard right now. This isn’t right. Are you complicit? I have ZERO concern about my language or pointed speech or ACTIONS that affect others. Do you?

Edited May 26, 2022 by Sneezyone

[lewelma]

I know nothing about guns, but I just looked it up and the AR-15 was one of the ones made illegal after the Christchurch Massacre. Here is the buy back list for 2021, when owners were given the opportunity to turn in the now illegal weapons and receive market value for them. It is not a small list. 

https://gazette.govt.nz/notice/id/2021-go53

Edited May 26, 2022 by lewelma

[1234]

I also wanted to address that I don’t really get how adding school security in the way of metal detectors and buzzers will really do anything. If someone wants to shoot a bunch of school kids and can’t get into the building, they just have to wait in the parent pick up line, at one of the bus stops, or go in a window. If a shooter wants the notoriety of killing school kids there  will still be ways to do a serious amount of damage. It won’t stop until people start voting for those not of a certain party but too many actually believe God doesn’t want them to do that (I actually think He is livid they are being so stupid). 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Joker2

[bookbard]

Stupid Australian here - can the President just write a national rule on guns that overrides all the state stuff? 

I feel like I understand the mentality of all this so much better post-Covid. When Australia had actual sensible rules around Covid, 90% of people (or more) followed them and agreed with them. 98% of adults are vaccinated.

And yet, once the rules were tossed to 'do what you want', the average person didn't follow the rules, started deciding they were dumb, and now only 10-20% of people mask, and the vaccine rate has plummeted. 

There need to be boundaries that leaders make very clear  and enforce. The people will follow.

[lewelma]

Because it is in the constitution, in the end it is the Supreme Court that decides how the 2nd amendment will be interpreted. 

[Eos]

36 minutes ago, bookbard said:

can the President just write a national rule on guns that overrides all the state stuff?

The 10th Amendment to our Constitution gives a lot of power to individual states - hence the arguments for leaving things like slavery and control of women's reproduction to the states.  This particular Supreme Court will rule for states' rights every time they get a chance.  I suppose in some alternate universe the President could decide to enforce the 2nd Amendment to "well regulate" the militia (that is to say the general population.)

Edited May 26, 2022 by Eos

[MEmama]

6 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

The exits are one way. The entrance is single entry. DDs high school was designed with shooters in mind. The entrance is circular so you can’t immediately shoot into a hallway. Classrooms are separated from the entry by a courtyard, etc. Architectural firms in the US actually specialize in this.

This is essentially how our high school is designed. I’m glad I didn’t know the reason behind it while DS was there, in my ignorance and innocence I just thought it looked bright and modern. 🤦‍♀️
 

I'm not responding or even liking many posts here because I just can’t. Like most of us, I’m clinging to the edge right now and allowing comments too deeply into my heart could send me into a spiraling despair. I’m angry more than anything and I simply can’t let my rage get the better of me; there is no landing space for it, just one more voice screaming into a cruel and heartless void, ignored by the powers that be.

Edited May 26, 2022 by MEmama

[Katy]

I think we’re missing the fact that half the country is taught the part about a moral necessity to overthrow a corrupt government and misses the parts where that went away- with the advent of machine guns and nuclear weapons. 

That mis-education has caused many problems in the past ten years. 

[Faith-manor]

15 minutes ago, Katy said:

I think we’re missing the fact that half the country is taught the part about a moral necessity to overthrow a corrupt government and misses the parts where that went away- with the advent of machine guns and nuclear weapons. 

That mis-education has caused many problems in the past ten years. 

Yes. Too many people think Rambo, Die Hard, and Mission Impossible are real. They think they are Tom Cruise though they have spent exactly ZERO time on marksmanship and training. It is delusional.

My nephew is one of these nuts. I told him he is crazy. If the big bad gubmint comes for him, they will drone strike his house, lob a shoulder launch bazooka into his house, or mow him down with a tank. He still doesn't get it. He still thinks he is Chris Helmsworth in "Red Dawn" and will save his town from the North Korean army. 🙄🙄

When my father admitted to being suicidal, and admitted to a sheriff's deputy that he had a plan to shoot my mother in the back when she left for church, and then kill himself, a judge ordered the removal of his weapons from their home. No officer or deputy ever showed up to do it. We called and asked multiple times. No one came. My husband and brother had to go search the home. Since it was private property and not legally theirs, they couldn't dispose of it nor could they legally surrender it to authorities because that would have been theft which could have resulted in charges brought against them. My brother had to house it until our father died, then mom had to reregister the guns in her name using his death certificates to show proof of ownership transfer so she could finally legally surrender them. But again, he had a plan to kill her and himself admitted to law enforcement and a legal court order to confiscate, and NO ONE showed up to do it. Let that sink in. And it isn't like my husband and brother, I.T. workers, had ANY training on how to search a home. They were there for hours and thought they found everything. A year after he died of his cancer, they were doing a house repair for mom and found another handgun and box of ammo. Since then, my youngest nephew who is a National Guardsmen following four years in the Army and an Iraq deployment told them how to do a sewrch. He knew because of his training. Sadly, he was overseas when his grandfather experienced the paraneoplastic syndrome that caused his delusions and hallucinations. We could have really used his expertise. I lived through a Dateline special kind of nightmare. I have never been the same.

We live in a dystopian war zone. That is America. The money, tech, and glitter makes it look "nice". But this about the equivalency of putting Este Lauder and Vera Wang on a pig for a photo shoot. Still just a dressed up pig.

[TexasProud]

23 hours ago, QueenCat said:

I'm not awake  yet, so I'm not sure I'm understanding  you. I've never been in a school with only one door to the outside. One official entrance, yes. And you have to be buzzed in. But plenty of other doors to things like the playground, etc. that our staff badges would open. It wouldn't be safe in a fire to only have one door to the entire school.

Yes, what you describe is what I meant. Only one ENTRANCE, but of course other ways to get out. My mom was a fire marshal for a large metropolitan area.  I always know how to exit any building in case of a fire...  

[Murphy101]

1 hour ago, Katy said:

I think we’re missing the fact that half the country is taught the part about a moral necessity to overthrow a corrupt government and misses the parts where that went away- with the advent of machine guns and nuclear weapons. 

That mis-education has caused many problems in the past ten years. 

This. I had an argument with someone yesterday that said citizens should have access to the same weaponry as the government so that the government cannot oppress us. I pointed out that I’m hell no bc I’m not at all ever getting behind citizens having atomic weapons and machines guns and grenades and many other things.  They looked shocked like that hadn’t occurred to them. 🤦‍♀️

[ktgrok]

37 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

And it isn't like my husband and brother, I.T. workers, had ANY training on how to search a home. They were there for hours and thought they found everything. A year after he died of his cancer, they were doing a house repair for mom and found another handgun and box of ammo..

We live in a dystopian war zone. That is America. The money, tech, and glitter makes it look "nice". But this about the equivalency of putting Este Lauder and Vera Wang on a pig for a photo shoot. Still just a dressed up pig.

Yup. When DH's mother died and they were getting ready to sell her house DH was packing things up and found a hand gun. We have NO IDEA where it came from. And this is a woman that was constantly pilled up and out of her mind crazy most of her waking hours. And on Ambien the non waking hours. I am actually shocked she never accidentally shot an innocent person, and I credit that to her probably forgetting where the gun was. There is NO WAY that woman should have been allowed to own a firearm. Had we known we would have taken it from her earlier, but there is a 50/50 chance she would have called the cops on her own son for theft in that case. 

10 minutes ago, Murphy101 said:

This. I had an argument with someone yesterday that said citizens should have access to the same weaponry as the government so that the government cannot oppress us. I pointed out that I’m hell no bc I’m not at all ever getting behind citizens having atomic weapons and machines guns and grenades and many other things.  They looked shocked like that hadn’t occurred to them. 🤦‍♀️

I've heard worse - that they have thought of that, and think yes, Jim Bob who drinks a six pack every evening while watching war movies on tv has every right to as many grenades and anti missile ballistics as he wants.