Cyber stalking

[Scarlett]

Some of you may remember a thread I started about my SIL being concerned that her stbXH was tracking  her or listening in on her conversations in some way.  
 

When Dh and their other sister drove SIL to CA to retrieve her stuff they had hoped to get in and out when he was at work.  They got there and he was home.   So that was suspicious. She had kept her phone turned off the entire trip. 
 

Then last weekend we were all together at other SILs house.  So Dh, their youngest brother and the two sisters.MIL and me and a friend.  We were discussing  STBXH ……in the way you do when trying to process an end of a marriage and all the things that went on to end it.  Suddenly stbXH begins texting both Dh and dh’s brother.  It.  was.  Bizarre. Not the texts exactly…..the content was fairly benign ….comments about some things he had found up building spiritually (which gag but whatever) …..but the timing was uncanny.  They did not respond to him….they haven’t the few times he has reached out to him.  
 

None of us could shake the feeling that it was too coincidental. Then SIL found some correspondence her stbXH had written and it was to a mutual friend and he (stbX) indicated he knew his wife and her siblings were on their way to CA when they indeed were.  
 

So my SIL reached out to a tech friend and he said it sounds like he has installed spyware and a keylogger on her phone.  She did some searches in her devises for what tech friend told her to search for and it appears he is correct.  So now the process of getting stuff cleaned…..

Isnt this just creepy? Or am I making too much of it. 

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

Some of you may remember a thread I started about my SIL being concerned that her stbXH was tracking  her or listening in on her conversations in some way.  
 

When Dh and their other sister drove SIL to CA to retrieve her stuff they had hoped to get in and out when he was at work.  They got there and he was home.   So that was suspicious. She had kept her phone turned off the entire trip. 
 

Then last weekend we were all together at other SILs house.  So Dh, their youngest brother and the two sisters.MIL and me and a friend.  We were discussing  STBXH ……in the way you do when trying to process an end of a marriage and all the things that went on to end it.  Suddenly stbXH begins texting both Dh and dh’s brother.  It.  was.  Bizarre. Not the texts exactly…..the content was fairly benign ….comments about some things he had found up building spiritually (which gag but whatever) …..but the timing was uncanny.  They did not respond to him….they haven’t the few times he has reached out to him.  
 

None of us could shake the feeling that it was too coincidental. Then SIL found some correspondence her stbXH had written and it was to a mutual friend and he (stbX) indicated he knew his wife and her siblings were on their way to CA when they indeed were.  
 

So my SIL reached out to a tech friend and he said it sounds like he has installed spyware and a keylogger on her phone.  She did some searches in her devises for what tech friend told her to search for and it appears he is correct.  So now the process of getting stuff cleaned…..

Isnt this just creepy? Or am I making too much of it. 

YIKES! You're not making too much of that.

[bolt.]

Yes, it's creepy.

I'm glad it has been found and that it is being dealt with.

I don't know if it's criminal or not, nor whether it has any impact on divorce proceedings etc.

[Rosie_0801]

Of course it is creepy, and I'm shocked she kept the same phone!

[Faith-manor]

1 minute ago, Scarlett said:

Some of you may remember a thread I started about my SIL being concerned that her stbXH was tracking  her or listening in on her conversations in some way.  
 

When Dh and their other sister drove SIL to CA to retrieve her stuff they had hoped to get in and out when he was at work.  They got there and he was home.   So that was suspicious. She had kept her phone turned off the entire trip. 
 

Then last weekend we were all together at other SILs house.  So Dh, their youngest brother and the two sisters.MIL and me and a friend.  We were discussing  STBXH ……in the way you do when trying to process an end of a marriage and all the things that went on to end it.  Suddenly stbXH begins texting both Dh and dh’s brother.  It.  was.  Bizarre. Not the texts exactly…..the content was fairly benign ….comments about some things he had found up building spiritually (which gag but whatever) …..but the timing was uncanny.  They did not respond to him….they haven’t the few times he has reached out to him.  
 

None of us could shake the feeling that it was too coincidental. Then SIL found some correspondence her stbXH had written and it was to a mutual friend and he (stbX) indicated he knew his wife and her siblings were on their way to CA when they indeed were.  
 

So my SIL reached out to a tech friend and he said it sounds like he has installed spyware and a keylogger on her phone.  She did some searches in her devises for what tech friend told her to search for and it appears he is correct.  So now the process of getting stuff cleaned…..

Isnt this just creepy? Or am I making too much of it. 

You are not being overdramatic. Cyber stalking during a divorce is not only creepy behavior, but can have terrible consequences since sometimes this is what very unstable minds do. They want to know the geo location of that estranged spouse because they want to control them or WORSE.

Your sister needs to get rid of her phone. She needs to change all her passwords but nor from a phone, but from a computer that her ex has never had access to so there is no risk of another keystroke logger.

A tracphone, basically a disposable that she buys minutes for, might be the best option. 

[Grace Hopper]

That is terrifying. I agree that she needs all new independent tech. 
 

And have her tech inspector - or some neutral professional in that industry - write a report documenting the spyware he found, she may need it for future court proceedings. 

[Grace Hopper]

Also, I’d love to know how the average person could detect such junk. And things like air tags. I feel like I need a personal tech security training class. 

[Terabith]

Could he have installed trackers on her car as well?

 

[Faith-manor]

3 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Could he have installed trackers on her car as well?

 

She should have that checked out because I know  woman whose crazy ex put a locator on her car and stalked her that way. He loved to scare her in parking lots. She eventually figured it out, got the locator taken off, sold the car, bought something completely different, and moved out of state which ended the stalking. Some of these ex's are total Jack Nicholson type dementors.

Scarlett, she needs to take this very seriously, and dump anything that he could be using to track her.

[Harriet Vane]

What the others said. AND keep meticulous records for the divorce proceedings and to have handy if there is any escalation on his part.

[Scarlett]

12 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Could he have installed trackers on her car as well?

 

Oh absolutely.  When she went to CA she brought her vehicle back with her.  So he definitely could have done that.  

[regentrude]

33 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Some of you may remember a thread I started about my SIL being concerned that her stbXH was tracking  her or listening in on her conversations in some way.  ...

So my SIL reached out to a tech friend and he said it sounds like he has installed spyware and a keylogger on her phone.  She did some searches in her devises for what tech friend told her to search for and it appears he is correct.  So now the process of getting stuff cleaned…..

I remember that thread, and I remember that several of us suggested she ditch her devices and replace them or at least have them taken to an expert to inspect for spyware. Why on earth did she not do that?

[Spryte]

New phone! New everything!

[Catwoman]

Another vote for CREEPY! 

Has she informed her attorney about this? I would think it would be very important to document this as fully and carefully as possible, because this guy sounds mentally unstable, to say the least.

I think she should also ask her attorney if she should be contacting the police about this. I doubt they could do anything about it, but having a report on file could be very helpful in the future if he escalates his behavior -- and he might, if he suddenly discovers that he can't track her via her phone or her vehicle any more.

This is very scary. 

[Catwoman]

41 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

You are not being overdramatic. Cyber stalking during a divorce is not only creepy behavior, but can have terrible consequences since sometimes this is what very unstable minds do. They want to know the geo location of that estranged spouse because they want to control them or WORSE.

Your sister needs to get rid of her phone. She needs to change all her passwords but nor from a phone, but from a computer that her ex has never had access to so there is no risk of another keystroke logger.

A tracphone, basically a disposable that she buys minutes for, might be the best option. 

That's a good point -- in addition to the phone, a new computer and all-new passwords are excellent ideas.

[Catwoman]

22 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Oh absolutely.  When she went to CA she brought her vehicle back with her.  So he definitely could have done that.  

She needs an expert to go over that entire car with a fine-toothed comb immediately -- or she needs to start using a different car.

This is like something out of a movie. I'm so sorry she is going through this, and I'm sure your dh and the whole family are very worried about her safety.

[Grace Hopper]

22 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

She needs an expert to go over that entire car with a fine-toothed comb immediately -- or she needs to start using a different car.

This is like something out of a movie. I'm so sorry she is going through this, and I'm sure your dh and the whole family are very worried about her safety.

I’d have to sell the car, after seeing all kinds of videos about the way air tags can be hidden in vehicles, dropped in purses or backpacks, etc. 

In general, there’s probably more fright over these things than situations for it to actually happen, so I don’t think we should all just live in terror. However, some situations are ripe for this kind of abuse, the OP being one of them. 

[gardenmom5]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

 

So my SIL reached out to a tech friend and he said it sounds like he has installed spyware and a keylogger on her phone.  She did some searches in her devises for what tech friend told her to search for and it appears he is correct.  So now the process of getting stuff cleaned…..

Isnt this just creepy? Or am I making too much of it. 

Report to the police.

[Katy]

It's not only creepy, in some states it's illegal.

[Grace Hopper]

13 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

Report to the police.

Oh definitely! I hope there’s solid evidence, though, that he’s the one to install it. Of course they all know he did it, but you need court worthy proof (which OP’s sil should seek to obtain, if the tech person can determine that).

[Scarlett]

I think he is creepy for sure. She has been working non stop to change  passwords etc but if he has a key logger on her computer it will do no good. 

She has a plan and she wants to get through filing taxes with him before she lowers the boom on him. 
He claims he doesn’t want a prolonged court fight but we will see how it shakes out. 
 

She got all of her clients moved to a new server and is feeling pretty secure about all of that. She really has nothing to hide from him and she is safe 2000 miles away. But she definitely wants to know eventually that he isn’t listening to her conversations. 

[Grace Hopper]

6 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I think he is creepy for sure. She has been working non stop to change  passwords etc but if he has a key logger on her computer it will do no good. 

She has a plan and she wants to get through filing taxes with him before she lowers the boom on him. 
He claims he doesn’t want a prolonged court fight but we will see how it shakes out. 
 

She got all of her clients moved to a new server and is feeling pretty secure about all of that. She really has nothing to hide from him and she is safe 2000 miles away. But she definitely wants to know eventually that he isn’t listening to her conversations. 

She needs to document ALL of this, including when he sends seemingly random texts. 

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, Grace Hopper said:

She needs to document ALL of this, including when he sends seemingly random texts. 

To what end? 

[AmandaVT]

Just now, Scarlett said:

To what end? 

He could have criminal liability. 

[Harriet Vane]

2 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

To what end? 

Because stalking is dangerous and leads to abuse and to death, and the judge who manages the divorce case needs to be aware of that predatory, threatening behavior.

And her plan to not deal with the stalking until after filing taxes is dangerous and foolhardy. It may be expensive and disruptive, but she needs to get new stuff  (computer, phone, car), document what he did to stalk her, and be completely and totally cut off from him. And frankly, if he's bugged her phone, her apartment is not safe either.

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, AmandaVT said:

He could have criminal liability. 

I don’t see how.  So far anything he may have installed spyware on is community property. The one thing I think a judge would be angry about is if he messed with her clients and her ability to support herself.  So far he has not.  And at this point I think it would be near impossible to know what all he might have access to.   I Think she needs to just slowly disconnect from anything he might have loaded spyware on to….without even a peep to him about it.  

[Scarlett]

Just now, Harriet Vane said:

Because stalking is dangerous and leads to abuse and to death, and the judge who manages the divorce case needs to be aware of that predatory, threatening behavior.

And her plan to not deal with the stalking until after filing taxes is dangerous and foolhardy. It may be expensive and disruptive, but she needs to get new stuff  (computer, phone, car), document what he did to stalk her, and be completely and totally cut off from him. And frankly, if he's bugged her phone, her apartment is not safe either.

She is living with her mother.  I do think it would be smart to have a professional come in and sweep it for her.  Or is that just in the movies. 

[Scarlett]

8 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

Because stalking is dangerous and leads to abuse and to death, and the judge who manages the divorce case needs to be aware of that predatory, threatening behavior.

And her plan to not deal with the stalking until after filing taxes is dangerous and foolhardy. It may be expensive and disruptive, but she needs to get new stuff  (computer, phone, car), document what he did to stalk her, and be completely and totally cut off from him. And frankly, if he's bugged her phone, her apartment is not safe either.

She has been living in AR since the first of August.  So this has been going on a while.  

[Grace Hopper]

21 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

To what end? 

Just in case it’s needed - say for a restraining order or to file charges or just to be taken seriously by law enforcement should his foolishness escalate. Which really could happen once he realizes she’s cut off his info stream. 

[Harriet Vane]

5 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

She has been living in AR since the first of August.  So this has been going on a while.  

Which means he has had a lot of time to build a complete profile of all her comings and goings and to glean a ton of information about all the details of her life, job, and finances. Stalking IS a five-alarm fire. She is unsafe. She needs to disentangle herself thoroughly and document it.

[Grace Hopper]

18 minutes ago, Harriet Vane said:

Because stalking is dangerous and leads to abuse and to death, and the judge who manages the divorce case needs to be aware of that predatory, threatening behavior.

And her plan to not deal with the stalking until after filing taxes is dangerous and foolhardy. It may be expensive and disruptive, but she needs to get new stuff  (computer, phone, car), document what he did to stalk her, and be completely and totally cut off from him. And frankly, if he's bugged her phone, her apartment is not safe either.

And because of this. Especially if the divorce isn’t finalized!!!

[Grace Hopper]

Her mother’s home isn’t community property. If he’s actively cyberstalking her there it’s possibly an invasion of her mother’s privacy. 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Grace Hopper

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

Just in case it’s needed - say for a restraining order or to file charges or just to be taken seriously by law enforcement should his foolishness escalate. Which really could happen once he realizes she’s cut off his info stream. 

Thus why she would like to get things settled with him….taxes then the divorce settlement before she cuts off his stream of info if he does have one.  
 

I know stalkers can escalate to dangerous extremes…so hopefully she can play things right.  

[Scarlett]

2 minutes ago, Grace Hopper said:

Her mother’s gone isn’t community property. If he’s actively cyberstalking her there it’s possibly an invasion of her mother’s privacy. 

Good point.  Dh doesn’t think that is likely.  Dh thinks…and I don’t know……..that it would be near Impossible to have a devise transmitting to CA.  So maybe the texting when we were all talking smack about him was coincidence. 

[LMD]

It is creepy, and women are in the greatest danger when leaving men like this. Please, take it seriously, don't underestimate this creep, this is exactly the situation where women end up dead. 

[PinkTulip]

Praying for her safety! 

Edited February 25, 2022 by PinkTulip

[Corraleno]

If he is tracking her to this extent then he likely knows that she won't cut him off until after the divorce is final — which gives him every incentive to drag this out as long as possible to keep her under surveillance. She needs a new phone and laptop like yesterday, she can always use the old ones occasionally if she wants him to think he still has access to her info without actually giving him access to all of her info.

I don't think your SIL and family understand just how dangerous this really is. If it were me I would absolutely alert the police to what's going on.

[TechWife]

43 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

Good point.  Dh doesn’t think that is likely.  Dh thinks…and I don’t know……..that it would be near Impossible to have a devise transmitting to CA.  So maybe the texting when we were all talking smack about him was coincidence. 

I’m a little incredulous- your husband has heard about Bluetooth and the internet, right? And the built in mics on phones? GPS? This is really dangerous. This is, IMO, full blown stalking. Forget the taxes - a judge can force that issue later if he’s uncooperative, or she can file as a married individual. The police department can probably give her the name of a reputable company that can check her devices, her car and her home. She needs to let go of the idea that she can do this easily - she needs a good lawyer who can advise her on how to prevent or minimize further disruptions. It will be easier to deal with things as they arise than to do damage control after the fact. 
 

ETA - A women’s shelter is  another possible referral resource for someone to check her devices. They would also be able to advise her on timing and likely have a list of experienced & effective attorneys. 

Edited February 25, 2022 by TechWife

[TravelingChris]

This is super dangerous.  Yes, to police. As to cell phone being community property or your purse being community property- I don't think that CA takes it that far at all.

Yes, to getting everything searched and also switching cars, phones, and computer.

[gardenmom5]

2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

To what end? 

Criminal liability

divorce court

He's STALKING her.   That's illegal. He's dangerous, but document document document. 

It can be used to file a restraining order.

All of the incidents where "he knew" something he shouldnt' have known. His admission he could keep tabs on her.  the fact there is/was a keystroke logger on her phone and computer.  (tbh: - I would strongly suggest not removing them  - use them as evidence.  And stop using them and get completely clean electronics.

[mom2samlibby]

I don't think you all are taking this seriously enough. Stalking and cyber stalking is extremely dangerous. She needs to take steps immediately to protect herself. She should have changed phones as soon as she left the state.

I'm worried for her. Stalkers have a tenandacy to do the unthinkable. 

[Grace Hopper]

Any chance he installed something that would remotely activate the camera on her devices? Time to tape the laptop camera eye. 😳

[wathe]

wrong thread.  Sorry.

 

Edited February 25, 2022 by wathe

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, mom2samlibby said:

I don't think you all are taking this seriously enough. Stalking and cyber stalking is extremely dangerous. She needs to take steps immediately to protect herself. She should have changed phones as soon as she left the state.

I'm worried for her. Stalkers have a tenandacy to do the unthinkable. 

Well, of course, this is her life not mine.  We have all felt it was off. We have given our suggestions. I do appreciate all the suggestions.  For any who have walked this path…..it is not easy.  She married this man about 2 months after Dh and I married….it might seem cut and dried to you all……but living it is a different  matter.  

[Harriet Vane]

4 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Thus why she would like to get things settled with him….taxes then the divorce settlement before she cuts off his stream of info if he does have one.  
 

I know stalkers can escalate to dangerous extremes…so hopefully she can play things right.  

It is complete, utter folly to ever, ever think you can play the game. The crazy dysfunctional person is absolutely always better at being crazy and dysfunctional than their chosen victim.

Tracking her phone and her movements is a HUGE red flag. This is not something to live with or let slide. She should assume that he has more information about her than she does about him, and that he has a plan. Whether that plan is to screw her over in divorce court or to escalate to violence is not something to guess at--he has a plan, and he has the capacity to do her harm.

 

[gardenmom5]

2 hours ago, Scarlett said:

….it might seem cut and dried to you all……but living it is a different  matter.  

That's common with abuse - it starts small, you brush it off.  jumps to next level - find an excuse, brush it off.  It's common.

we're seeing this down the road, and it is now crystal clear.  He's not just creepy - he's potentially extremely dangerous and it needs to be taken seriously.

if you have to - sit her down and ask her what she'd do if one of her friends came to her and said their husband was doing those things . . . 

[DawnM]

15 hours ago, Harriet Vane said:

What the others said. AND keep meticulous records for the divorce proceedings and to have handy if there is any escalation on his part.

Yes, proof, proof, proof!

[Scarlett]

12 hours ago, TechWife said:

I’m a little incredulous- your husband has heard about Bluetooth and the internet, right? And the built in mics on phones? GPS? This is really dangerous. This is, IMO, full blown stalking. Forget the taxes - a judge can force that issue later if he’s uncooperative, or she can file as a married individual. The police department can probably give her the name of a reputable company that can check her devices, her car and her home. She needs to let go of the idea that she can do this easily - she needs a good lawyer who can advise her on how to prevent or minimize further disruptions. It will be easier to deal with things as they arise than to do damage control after the fact. 
 

ETA - A women’s shelter is  another possible referral resource for someone to check her devices. They would also be able to advise her on timing and likely have a list of experienced & effective attorneys. 

I admit I don’t know much about the spy world. I know you can have gps on a phone or vehicle….I know about keyloggers (that is how I caught xh in an affair) and voice activated recorders, but specifically Dh is saying there would need to be a power source to record and transmit voice.  
 

She has come a long ways since last August when she showed up for a visit and never left. We had to do a lot of talking to stop her from handing over a huge sum of cash to him when she went to get her belongings in December.  He had fully convinced her she had no right to any of it.  The way we got her to not give it to him was to tell her she could do it later but not to do it now when she was under duress.  She now sees, in just 2 months time that she does have a right to it.  And that she does have a right to alimony.  So she is making progress.  
 

She is concerned about the cyber stuff…..but there is no proof at this point.  And even if she finds something tangible I think it will be difficult to prove he did it.  
 

Our next step is to get her into see an attorney for a consult about her best options and what is likely to happen if he fights her. They went through huge court battles with each of their first spouses over child support and visitation.  50k or more.  He claims he doesn’t want to go through that again and he wants to be reasonable.  None of us necessarily believe that but she wants to try it that way.  The main thing is she is free of him and I do not believe she will ever go back.  

[TechWife]

10 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

I admit I don’t know much about the spy world. I know you can have gps on a phone or vehicle….I know about keyloggers (that is how I caught xh in an affair) and voice activated recorders, but specifically Dh is saying there would need to be a power source to record and transmit voice.  
 

She has come a long ways since last August when she showed up for a visit and never left. We had to do a lot of talking to stop her from handing over a huge sum of cash to him when she went to get her belongings in December.  He had fully convinced her she had no right to any of it.  The way we got her to not give it to him was to tell her she could do it later but not to do it now when she was under duress.  She now sees, in just 2 months time that she does have a right to it.  And that she does have a right to alimony.  So she is making progress.  
 

She is concerned about the cyber stuff…..but there is no proof at this point.  And even if she finds something tangible I think it will be difficult to prove he did it.  
 

Our next step is to get her into see an attorney for a consult about her best options and what is likely to happen if he fights her. They went through huge court battles with each of their first spouses over child support and visitation.  50k or more.  He claims he doesn’t want to go through that again and he wants to be reasonable.  None of us necessarily believe that but she wants to try it that way.  The main thing is she is free of him and I do not believe she will ever go back.  

Yes, and al of these devices have batteries that are routinely charged or, in the case of air tags and the like, they have long life batteries. My tile battery lasts about two years. The presence of the trackers needs to be documented. She may not have proof he did it in hand now, but that doesn’t mean he won’t admit it when pressured or that proof won’t surface later. If the trackers are removed without documentation, then proof or admission may be irrelevant. She needs to deal with what is happening in a way that serves her best interests. I’m glad she is getting an attorney - the sooner the better. 

[AmandaVT]

10 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

Criminal liability

divorce court

He's STALKING her.   That's illegal. He's dangerous, but document document document. 

It can be used to file a restraining order.

All of the incidents where "he knew" something he shouldnt' have known. His admission he could keep tabs on her.  the fact there is/was a keystroke logger on her phone and computer.  (tbh: - I would strongly suggest not removing them  - use them as evidence.  And stop using them and get completely clean electronics.

This!!