Omicron anecdata?

[mommyoffive]

New York State Reports Record New Covid-19 Cases on Dec. 24 (msn.com)

[popmom]

24 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

One of my coworkers, triple vaxxed, is currently sick in bed with Covid. I talked to his wife today and this is exactly what she described—muscle pains, chest pains, fever, chills, all over body aches. I know it’s a “mild” case, but he’s not been out of bed in three days and is feeling absolutely miserable.  He has no underlying health conditions.

I don’t have a fever so far, but no appetite and I’m too fatigued and achy to even stare at my phone. I’m going to try to sleep.

[Spryte]

4 minutes ago, popmom said:

I don’t have a fever so far, but no appetite and I’m too fatigued and achy to even stare at my phone. I’m going to try to sleep.

I hope you feel better soon.

[Pam in CT]

Get some rest, @popmom . Hope you're feeling better in the morning.

Holding everyone else directly affected, or with loved ones affected, by this new wave in the light.

[KSera]

2 hours ago, popmom said:

If this is correct, I’m almost certain I am infected. This afternoon fatigue, muscle and joint aches hit me very suddenly. Also, this South African doctor somewhat contradicts what other experts have described as Omicron’s symptoms. Very interesting that she is saying there are no asymptomatic cases.
 

https://www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/theres-no-reason-to-test-if-you-have-no-symptoms-and-2-other-findings-from-the-woman-instrumental-in-first-identifying-omicron-11640376567

This is a puzzling set of statements for me. I've noticed that it does seem like asymptomatic cases may not be as common as with prior variants, and most seem to be symptomatic eventually, but I've also read of asymptomatic cases in many of the omicron outbreaks. She also says you will definitely test positive on a rapid test by the time you have symptoms, and that is clearly not true from the number of people who have had symptoms for 1-2 days with negative tests before finally testing positive. Lots of people caught silent infections on rapid tests when testing before gatherings at Christmas. Even her symptom list seems different from what other countries are describing, with most places saying sore throat and congestion. I know she's should be in a position to know how omicron, but somehow her experience seems different from what people are experiencing with omicron in the US 🤷‍♀️.

1 hour ago, popmom said:

I don’t have a fever so far, but no appetite and I’m too fatigued and achy to even stare at my phone. I’m going to try to sleep.

I'm sorry. I hope it passes quickly and you feel better soon.

[SeaConquest]

15 hours ago, Toocrazy!! said:

A couple weeks ago DS and several of his friends all had a terrible virus. Fever, cough, sweats, body aches. Of the ones who got tested, all were negative for covid, but the ones who tested for it were all positive for flu A. 

Both DH and older DS have been sick since Christmas eve. DH has only head cold symptoms. No cough or sore throat. Older DS ran a fever for a day and threw up/had diarrhea. Also no cough or sore throat. Both are boosted and had flu shots. Neither have tested positive on rapids at home. Younger DS and I have had no symptoms thus far. I sit 12 inches from 100 people's faces per day while I vaccinate them, so even though I am boosted and wear an N95, I am pretty sure that it's only a matter of time before I get Omicron.    

[Carrie12345]

Again, not confirmed Omicron, but…

My sister, her two kids, and her ex have been quarantined/isolated in a studio apartment.(So obviously not isolated from one another.) Some of this is repeating what I’ve already posted.

My niece tested positive with a rapid test on the 19th and follow up PCR.  Last known exposure on the 17th, but certainly could have been earlier.
Nephew had a low grade fever on the 20th, but he and my sister were negative.
Sister got cold symptoms later on the 20th. She (vaxxed, boosted the week before) tested positive on the 21st.
Her ex got short but bad symptoms on the 24th.
Nephew home tested positive yesterday, the 26th with no symptoms. They only tested him to calculate quarantine procedures.
 

[SeaConquest]

7 hours ago, SeaConquest said:

Both DH and older DS have been sick since Christmas eve. DH has only head cold symptoms. No cough or sore throat. Older DS ran a fever for a day and threw up/had diarrhea. Also no cough or sore throat. Both are boosted and had flu shots. Neither have tested positive on rapids at home. Younger DS and I have had no symptoms thus far. I sit 12 inches from 100 people's faces per day while I vaccinate them, so even though I am boosted and wear an N95, I am pretty sure that it's only a matter of time before I get Omicron.    

Ran another home test on DH this morning since he still has symptoms. Satan's lollipop is still negative, so who knows. Younger DS and I are still symptom-free. Knock wood.  

Edited December 27, 2021 by SeaConquest

[mommyoffive]

The first thing on my feed this morning is this.  I don't even know what to say.  Please don't let the world go through another pandemic. 

Massive New Bird Flu Outbreak Could Be 2022’s Deadly Pandemic (msn.com)

[Syllieann]

Here are three resolved cases among our friends:

Early 60s male with two Pfizers in April and no booster had three days of flu like symptoms.  He said he was sucking down the dayquil.  Negative RAT on day 6 of symptoms.

Very healthy, fit 20 year old female had two modernas in April/May.  She got a booster last Monday and developed symptoms Monday night.  Thought it was side effects at first but then learned of exposure several days prior.  Positive RAT and PCR.  Mild cold like symptoms for a few days.  Still positive on RAT on day 6.  Parents in early 50s living with her have had 3 modernas and still testing negative.

Early 30s male w/diabetes infected a few days after his moderna booster (moderna primary too).  Three days of flu like symptoms.  The wife did her best to isolate him as soon as he developed symptoms.  She had her third Moderna in early November and is still testing negative.

[Spryte]

DS and DIL are on Day 7. DIL says she’s much less congested and feeling better. DS is hacking up a lot of junk, and still feels crummy.

I cannot convince him to see a doc. Grrrrrrr.

[Rebel]

I tested positive last night for what I assume is Omicron. Vaxxed and boosted with Moderna - Booster was Sept 5th. I didn't feel all that bad, but had some stomach issues, was low energy, sneezing, and had a headache that seemed to keep coming back. Since I have TERRIBLE cedar allergies and the pollen is literally poofing off the trees in mini explosions right now, I assumed that's what was bothering me. However, I spiked a 102 fever out of the blue and was like, "Oh Sh*t!" I went to urgent care figuring I had either break through Covid or flu since I read that this year's flu vaccine was not a good match for what is going around. They did the swab that tests for 21 different respiratory viruses, and informed me it was Covid.

I had let up a bit with Covid protocols, but still masked in crowded public spaces. I did however, join in a family gathering indoors unmasked and stayed several days with my sister and brother-in-law who only mask when required and are unvaccinated.

I actually think I may have gotten it from my daughter-in-law. She, my son, and granddaughter live in the same house as I do. She had what she swore was a nasty cold last week and refused to go test. Said she knew her body and it felt like a bad cold and maybe it was, but she also informed me YESTERDAY that she also had some breathing issues and lost her sense of smell. She also cuts hair at a children's hair salon, most of which are too young to be vaccinated.

A-n-y-w-a-y, I am isolating upstairs in my part of the house which luckily has a separate HVAC than the downstairs. I put fans blowing outward in two windows to help with ventilation. DIL, DS, and GDD all went to get rapid PCR tests today and should have results within 24 hours. 

GDD has been practically joined at the hip with me for the past few weeks so I expect her to be positive, but hoping to be wrong.

[Ali in OR]

5 minutes ago, Rebel said:

I actually think I may have gotten it from my daughter-in-law. She, my son, and granddaughter live in the same house as I do. She had what she swore was a nasty cold last week and refused to go test.

These are the people that scare me. My aunt and her husband are on a "trip of a lifetime" in Italy right now. She posted about the terrible "cold" she and her husband got--he was coughing all night and she felt like her head was going to explode. Of course it's just a cold--there's no way they're going to test because then they might have to alter their behavior. And this is why I'm getting KN95 and maybe some N95 masks before I go back to teaching next week. The consequences of testing are harsh (miss 2 weeks of school here), so I'm guessing many will skip that step if they have "a cold."

I'm sorry it hit you. Hope you're feeling better soon.

[JennyD]

24 minutes ago, Rebel said:

Said she knew her body and it felt like a bad cold

Oh good grief.  How are we nearly two years into this and people are still saying stuff like this?

So sorry for everyone who is feeling poorly.  

21 minutes ago, Ali in OR said:

The consequences of testing are harsh (miss 2 weeks of school here), so I'm guessing many will skip that step if they have "a cold."

I strongly suspect that this is where we are heading in the coming weeks.  We desperately need better health guidance about when people are most likely to be the most infectious so we can focus quarantine requirements more narrowly.  Otherwise pretty soon nobody is going to have covid but everyone is going to have a bad cold.

 

 

 

[KSera]

1 hour ago, JennyD said:

Oh good grief.  How are we nearly two years into this and people are still saying stuff like this?

Right?! I “Gaaah!”-ed out loud when I read that!

1 hour ago, JennyD said:

We desperately need better health guidance about when people are most likely to be the most infectious so we can focus quarantine requirements more narrowly.

There have been some new suggested guidelines for healthcare workers in the last week, including I think some places that have enacted them. That’s for the case where they just can’t afford to have them out longer than necessary, though. it does seem the trend is to be shortening them. Ashish Jha was recommending the other day five days after testing positive, if symptoms were resolved and the person got I think two negative rapid tests, that they could return to work. I have to find the link to see if I have that right. And again, that’s for healthcare workers, we really can’t afford to have off the job, and who also should hopefully be wearing in 95s (though I know some places they’re still just wearing ear loop procedure masks).

eta link:

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by KSera

[KSera]

This is timely. CDC just updated the isolation guidelines:

 

[Syllieann]

Another one:  early 60s male with two Moderna shots, healthy.  He was scheduled for a booster but didn't get it yet.  He says it was the worst sore throat he's ever had.  No fever, cough, or fatigue.  He thought it was strep until someone convinced him to take a covid test, which was positive (binax).  The severe sore throat lasted 3 days and then he got a mild dry cough for about 2 more days.

[Lucy the Valiant]

Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States  (from 30 September 2021)

 

 

Vaccine effectiveness against SARS-CoV-2 infection with the Omicron or Delta variants following a two-dose or booster BNT162b2 or mRNA-1273 vaccination series: A Danish cohort study  (22 December 2021)  

Edited December 27, 2021 by Lucy the Valiant

[SeaConquest]

23 minutes ago, Lucy the Valiant said:

Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States  (from 30 September 2021)

 

 

Vaccine effectiveness against SARS-CoV-2 infection with the Omicron or Delta variants following a two-dose or booster BNT162b2 or mRNA-1273 vaccination series: A Danish cohort study  (22 December 2021)  

It is not a blinded study. There are very few unvaccinated in Denmark and it is my understanding that they have vaccine passports of some sort, so the unvaccinated are not allowed into many public spaces. The study describes that people who think they are protected often behave less carefully, and thus end up with an higher infection risk. I know that there have definitely been periods after I was recently vaxed/boosted when I did the same.

Edited December 27, 2021 by SeaConquest

[cintinative]

23 minutes ago, Lucy the Valiant said:

I

Vaccine effectiveness against SARS-CoV-2 infection with the Omicron or Delta variants following a two-dose or booster BNT162b2 or mRNA-1273 vaccination series: A Danish cohort study  (22 December 2021)  

Can you explain what negative effect means? I can't brain today.

[KSera]

1 hour ago, KSera said:

This is timely. CDC just updated the isolation guidelines:

 

Seeing the guidelines, I don't think it's all as terrific as Dr Jha says, much as I appreciate him and usually like his advice. Without a negative antigen test at the end (as he originally recommended) there are going to be a fair number of people still contagious who are released from isolation.

Exhibit A:

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by KSera

[SeaConquest]

11 minutes ago, cintinative said:

Can you explain what negative effect means? I can't brain today.

That the vaccinated were more likely to contract Covid than the unvaccinated. But, the conclusion of the study is very much in favor of boosters. So, if this were really true, they would have some serious explaining to do. They give an explanation for the result, but I saw this study posted on Twitter about a week ago and since then it's been making the rounds in anti-vax circles.

[Lucy the Valiant]

8 minutes ago, cintinative said:

Can you explain what negative effect means? I can't brain today.

I'm still working my way through the report myself (which is why I shared it here - I'm SLOW), but - as I'm understanding it so far, a negative effect means the vaccine is actually making it MORE likely  that the person will catch Omicron, after that 3 month mark. So . . . (and this may be wrong ~ someone please correct me if so) . . . the vaccine efficacy is good (55% or so initially, and then begins to decline) for 3 months, and then actually becomes a negative effect. 😞 (This is for omicron, not delta.)

But if omicron *IS the more-transmissible-but-much-less-serious variant, then it has the practical effect of being able to actually REALLY shut down covid, I believe? 

[SeaConquest]

17 minutes ago, KSera said:

Seeing the guidelines, I don't think it's all as terrific as Dr Jha says, much as I appreciate him and usually like his advice. Without a negative antigen test at the end (as he originally recommended) there are going to be a fair number of people still contagious who are released from isolation.

Exhibit A:

 

I totally agree with you. Many HCWs on Twitter are not happy about it, from what I have seen. That and the new recommendation from the AHA that we do not need to put on PPE before we resus during codes. Eff that. The very first thing you learn in BLS is that you check to make sure the scene is safe. The CDC and AHA have abandoned us and the pushback from HCWs is serious. This is one of the reasons why people are leaving. Many feel like no one values our lives anymore. They are essentially telling us to put someone else's oxygen mask on before putting on our own. Hell no.

Edited December 27, 2021 by SeaConquest

[Lucy the Valiant]

3 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

That the vaccinated were more likely to contract Covid than the unvaccinated. But, the conclusion of the study is very much in favor of boosters. So, if this were really true, they would have some serious explaining to do. They give an explanation for the result, but I saw this study posted on Twitter about a week ago and since then it's been making the rounds in anti-vax circles.

Is a fair summary like this? 

1. Get vaccine = 55% vaccine efficacy against omicron

2. By 3 months, the vaccine is actually NOT helping anymore, and may actually be harmful (?), so

3. Getting a booster makes you vulnerable for 2 weeks post-booster (according to the UK pre-print) but then puts you back up to 75% efficacy?

 

[KSera]

32 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

I totally agree with you. Many HCWs on Twitter are not happy about it, from what I have seen. That and the new recommendation from the AHA that we do not need to put on PPE before we resus during codes. Eff that. The very first thing you learn in BLS is that you check to make sure the scene is safe. The CDC and AHA have abandoned us and the pushback from HCWs is serious. This is one of the reasons why people are leaving. Many feel like no one values our lives anymore. They are essentially telling us to put someone else's oxygen mask on before putting on our own. Hell no.

Yeah, that doesn't seem right. The CDC in particular has disappointed me over and over during this pandemic. The most recent statements from Rachel Walensky about N95s are just straight up wrong and will lead to more people infected than otherwise would be. It makes no sense.

32 minutes ago, Lucy the Valiant said:

Is a fair summary like this? 

1. Get vaccine = 55% vaccine efficacy against omicron

2. By 3 months, the vaccine is actually NOT helping anymore, and may actually be harmful (?), so

3. Getting a booster makes you vulnerable for 2 weeks post-booster (according to the UK pre-print) but then puts you back up to 75% efficacy?

 

For point 2, I'd say only that if this study were verified by others, it would indicate vaccinated people more susceptible to catching it after 3 months, but so far, all indications are that the vaccine hugely reduces severe and fatal cases, so it would still be very worth it.

 

(edited out point 3 because I think I misunderstood what you were saying)

Edited December 28, 2021 by KSera

[SeaConquest]

The reality is that the boosters use the original Wuhan strain, which held up well against Delta, but are not nearly as effective against Omicron because of its new mutations. The mutations exist because we still have so many left unvaccinated in the world. 

But, the good news is that getting three doses has been shown to provide a broader spectrum of immunity than just two doses, and people experience far less severe cases when they are vaccinated. So, the vaccines and boosters are still worth getting. You may still get infected, but you are very unlikely to end up in the ICU or dead. We don't yet know about Omicron and Long Covid.

We also don't know if Omicron will completely displace Delta in circulation globally or whether Omicron will mutate into something else that is more virulent *and* transmissible if it continues to spread unchecked, but there is no question that Omicron is not going to be the last mutation of this virus. The notion that viruses always mutate into something less virulent is simply wrong. This is a lay summary. https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19/do-bad-viruses-always-become-good-guys-end 

They are making new mRNA vaccines to account for Omicron, but Marchish is the earliest I have heard. Until then, we just have to do our best with N95s, boosters, and frequent testing.

[SeaConquest]

15 minutes ago, Lucy the Valiant said:

Is a fair summary like this? 

1. Get vaccine = 55% vaccine efficacy against omicron

2. By 3 months, the vaccine is actually NOT helping anymore, and may actually be harmful (?), so

3. Getting a booster makes you vulnerable for 2 weeks post-booster (according to the UK pre-print) but then puts you back up to 75% efficacy?

 

1. Vaccines start off higher than 55% vs O once they get to full levels of antibodies (about 14 days out), depending on your age/health status.

2. The vaccine is not harming you. It is people's behavior that is harming them because they don't realize that their vaccine immunity has waned. This is due to poor communication from our health officials and/or pandemic fatigue.

3. Getting a booster doesn't make you vulnerable for 2 weeks, You have low immunity pre-booster and it takes 14 days to reach full immunity. People don't realize that their booster isn't going to work right away and Omicron is everywhere, so again, behavior. After 14 days, they have reached peak immunity. Before then, it's like they are still slowly filling up their gas tank of immunity and some will get infected if they think they are in the clear already and don't take precautions.

 

[Lucy the Valiant]

Thank you for your patient explanation, SeaConquest. I'm trying to understand and pay attention, but frustrated by (local) conflicting info. (Example: vaccine passports.)

So the 55% in the Denmark study was at the 14-day mark? And the "negative effect" after 3 months is reflective of behavior? (As in, more careless than the unccaccinated?)

And so the vaccine is strongest between 14 days post-jab until 3 months later? 17 weeks later? (I know the data is from Denmark and not USA; I am also reading studies re: omicron from UK and France.)

I hate how dumb I feel when I try to understand scientific studies. 😞 I'm determined to keep at it, but apologies for sounding dumb. 

[Cordelia]

Well, here is my omicron anecdata: 

Our family of five all got tested today after a known exposure last Wednesday. DH and I are vaccinated and boosted with Moderna, kids are unvaccinated. 

DH and I were negative.

DS5, DS3, and DD 19 months were all positive. 

My guess is that the boosters helped me and DH, because we have definitely had a lot of exposure to the children. 

DS5 and DS3 had about two days of feeling poorly. DD has been asymptomatic. All of them are feeling fine now, so we are just riding out our quarantine/isolation at home.

[SeaConquest]

1 hour ago, Lucy the Valiant said:

Thank you for your patient explanation, SeaConquest. I'm trying to understand and pay attention, but frustrated by (local) conflicting info. (Example: vaccine passports.)

So the 55% in the Denmark study was at the 14-day mark? And the "negative effect" after 3 months is reflective of behavior? (As in, more careless than the unccaccinated?)

And so the vaccine is strongest between 14 days post-jab until 3 months later? 17 weeks later? (I know the data is from Denmark and not USA; I am also reading studies re: omicron from UK and France.)

I hate how dumb I feel when I try to understand scientific studies. 😞 I'm determined to keep at it, but apologies for sounding dumb. 

You don't sound dumb. It's a rapidly changing environment and it's extremely difficult for people to make decisions for their families when they feel like they are in an information vacuum and have a million other balls in the air. I wish we had a way to convey all of this in daily, centralized way that was accessible, but it has become so politicized and people are just fatigued by it all. It's hard; be gentle with yourself.

Just know that getting your booster, masking with a comfortable N95 (bought from a reputable source, like the N95 project), and frequent testing + isolating if you are exposed/showing symptoms are really all you can do right now.  

[Ausmumof3]

 

More criticism toward the CDC shortened guidelines 

[Terabith]

Okay, I read a thing on the CDC shortening isolation time to five days, and I thought it was five days AND a negative rapid test (two for people who work with vulnerable people) AND then wearing high quality fitted masks for another five days AND unsymptomatic?  

[Katy]

6 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Okay, I read a thing on the CDC shortening isolation time to five days, and I thought it was five days AND a negative rapid test (two for people who work with vulnerable people) AND then wearing high quality fitted masks for another five days AND unsymptomatic?  

It is, you are correct.

[KSera]

24 minutes ago, Ausmumof3 said:

 

More criticism toward the CDC shortened guidelines 

Yeah. I think they didn't make the testing required simply because they don't have the tests available. Where is the Defense Production Act? It's been two years.

23 minutes ago, Terabith said:

Okay, I read a thing on the CDC shortening isolation time to five days, and I thought it was five days AND a negative rapid test (two for people who work with vulnerable people) AND then wearing high quality fitted masks for another five days AND unsymptomatic?  

The testing is not required, but was what was recommended by doctors and scientists ahead of this change. The masking is required, but I expect in places where people aren't masking, people aren't going to do it. If no one else is masking, wearing a mask to work will be like a neon sign saying, "I might still be contagious with covid!" Of course, places where no one is masking, maybe no one cares if people are contagious with covid 🤷‍♀️. I don't know, but I expect compliance will be low in the areas that need it most. I'm still mind blown that everyone wouldn't be masking in public right now though, so I'm probably not a good one to comment on that part of it. Seems like this guidance even more indicates masks as not being the default right now, when they should be.

[Lucy the Valiant]

30 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

You don't sound dumb. It's a rapidly changing environment and it's extremely difficult for people to make decisions for their families when they feel like they are in an information vacuum and have a million other balls in the air. I wish we had a way to convey all of this in daily, centralized way that was accessible, but it has become so politicized and people are just fatigued by it all. It's hard; be gentle with yourself.

Just know that getting your booster, masking with a comfortable N95 (bought from a reputable source, like the N95 project), and frequent testing + isolating if you are exposed/showing symptoms are really all you can do right now.  

Thanks. Our household is attempting to balance natural (prolonged) immunity, a medically-unusual person for whom one size does NOT fit all, information from VAERS, information from CDC, information from international family members who are experiencing covid quite differently than the USA, and family members who are involved in varying levels of community interactions. 

It is both exhausting and discouraging. 

 

[Mom_to3]

16 hours ago, SeaConquest said:

Both DH and older DS have been sick since Christmas eve. DH has only head cold symptoms. No cough or sore throat. Older DS ran a fever for a day and threw up/had diarrhea. Also no cough or sore throat. Both are boosted and had flu shots. Neither have tested positive on rapids at home. Younger DS and I have had no symptoms thus far. I sit 12 inches from 100 people's faces per day while I vaccinate them, so even though I am boosted and wear an N95, I am pretty sure that it's only a matter of time before I get Omicron.    

How come your older DS is boosted? Isn't he just 12 or 13? (Asking because I have a 12 year old...).

[SeaConquest]

40 minutes ago, Lucy the Valiant said:

Thanks. Our household is attempting to balance natural (prolonged) immunity, a medically-unusual person for whom one size does NOT fit all, information from VAERS, information from CDC, information from international family members who are experiencing covid quite differently than the USA, and family members who are involved in varying levels of community interactions. 

It is both exhausting and discouraging. 

 

I try to remember that people are coming from many different POV on this. One of the things that binds most people who were alive at the time about 9.11 was that we all saw it with our very own eyes. Around the world, most people on the planet that had access to a TV witnessed the horrors of that day and, to varying degrees, it was seared into our collective memories. The problem with this pandemic is that it is out sight and, unless it touches you, out of mind. Because of privacy laws, we do not have cameras in our ICUs, in our EDs, or in our ambulances. We should. We cannot show the true horrors of 800,000 American deaths the way we did 3,000 of them, so it continues to go on and on and on. Out of sight, out of mind. People have no idea what it is like to die of Covid. They should. They should see it over and over again, as HCWs have. People say that we shouldn't have to live in fear, but how do you know what to fear if it is out of sight? How many people would have gone along with the Patriot Act and the restrictions and changes to our entire way of life post-9.11 had we not seen it all with our very own eyes that day? People need to see what we have seen.   

Edited December 28, 2021 by SeaConquest

[SeaConquest]

10 minutes ago, Mom_to3 said:

How come your older DS is boosted? Isn't he just 12 or 13? (Asking because I have a 12 year old...).

I can discuss with you via PM if you want.

[Mom_to3]

I really don't like the new CDC guidance, and am very disappointed that people like Ashish Jha are supporting it.

1) They should really have required a negative test to exit. Of course they don't because we still don't have enough tests 2 years into this pandemic (another failure by our government). It will be virtually impossible to backtrack this when (if) sufficient tests become available.

2) We should have learned by now that people don't tell the truth or don't notice early symptoms. There will be many who will explain away a brief cough or the sniffles by allergies, and many who will ignore mild fatigue or a headache. 

3) For masking to help after the exit, we really would have needed N95 masks on everybody everywhere.

4) This guidance is a very short step away from businesses *expecting* people to report to work or school after 5 days (or workers feeling the pressure to come in even though they are symptomatic).

Also note the timing of this guidance: After a lull in reporting and a few days before what will be a devastating rise in cases (once testing catches up after the holiday closure, to the extent this is possible in spite of the fact that our testing system is on the verge of collapsing) . They know that our entire society, not just healthcare, would collapse due to isolation and quarantine, and they are not willing to order a lockdown because it hurts the economy. $$ as opposed to public health.

 

[Farrar]

Average daily cases here was 2300. Our previous peak at the height of the pandemic was less than 400. Y'all. Holy ****.

Hospitalizations are also up (gee, not surprising) but have basically doubled in the last week. So up a good bit, but not anywhere near on that level. Clear that hospital capacity is pressured, but not beyond capacity and nowhere near the peak, which was significantly higher previously.

[Lucy the Valiant]

16 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

I try to remember that people are coming from many different POV on this. One of the things that binds most people who were alive at the time about 9.11 was that we all saw it with our very own eyes. Around the world, most people on the planet that had access to a TV witnessed the horrors of that day and, to varying degrees, it was seared into our collective memories. The problem with this pandemic is that it is out sight and, unless it touches you, out of mind. Because of privacy laws, we do not have cameras in our ICU, in our EDs, or in our ambulances. We should. We cannot show the true horrors of 800,000 American deaths the way we did 3,000 of them, so it continues to go on and on and on. Out of sight, out of mind. People have no idea what it is like to die of Covid. They should. They should see it over and over again, as HCWs have. People say that we shouldn't have to live in fear, but how do you know what to fear if it is out of sight? How many people would have gone along with the Patriot Act and the restrictions and changes to our entire way of like post-9.11 had we not seen it all with our very own eyes that day? People need to see what we have seen.   

Agree 100% in BOTH directions. ❤️ 

[vonfirmath]

On 12/26/2021 at 12:16 PM, sassenach said:

Dh and many, many people in my circle have all been hit hard by a virus. Everyone has tested, no one is positive. I think there is another very nasty virus making the rounds. It's not all Covid out there.

Locally 8% of Covid tests are coming up postivie for Covid and 7% of flu tests are coming up positive for flu (And a friend had both of her kids end up in the hospital briefly with diagnosed flu)

 

[kokotg]

My BIL (vaccinated...I'm not positive about boosted, but I would guess so) tested positive today after waking up with a "cold" and testing negative yesterday. He and his family flew across the country last week and hit a number of indoor restaurants and small gatherings of friends/family (including with us) since then. Still just regular cold symptoms, my SIL reports, and no one else has symptoms yet (I don't know who all has been tested so far, with tests being so hard to come by). We last saw them on the 22nd and last saw them inside on the 21st, so it's fairly likely we're in the clear, but I worry especially about his parents (in their 80s) who they were visiting for xmas. 

[mommyoffive]

38 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

I can discuss with you via PM if you want.

Can you pm me the info?  I have a 13 and a 15 year old 

[KSera]

59 minutes ago, Mom_to3 said:

I really don't like the new CDC guidance, and am very disappointed that people like Ashish Jha are supporting it.

I've seen this evening Ashish Jha is clarifying that he thinks they should be requiring the negative test before ending isolation. So at least there's that. I agree with your points, though, and agree that this is an attempt at pre-emptive damage control for the massive covid-induced disruptions waiting for us as things open back up after the holidays.

[Tree Frog]

1 hour ago, Mom_to3 said:

1) They should really have required a negative test to exit. Of course they don't because we still don't have enough tests 2 years into this pandemic (another failure by our government). It will be virtually impossible to backtrack this when (if) sufficient tests become available.

2) We should have learned by now that people don't tell the truth or don't notice early symptoms. There will be many who will explain away a brief cough or the sniffles by allergies, and many who will ignore mild fatigue or a headache

1. I agree not enough tests, but they're too expensive for many families to test frequently. Our former exchange student is visiting and was astounded that the home tests cost over $10 each. The 2 he brought from Germany cost about $3 each.

It's also difficult to get appointments for drive up testing. We need tests done on Friday, but because it's a holiday, many tests in our area seem to be closed.

2. In our area, mountain cedar allergies are starting to show up. I get horrible coughing, sneezing, congestion problems. Those are the same symptoms my positive dd has. She didn't test positive until her symptoms started decreasing. When it gets bad, I should be testing daily or every couple of days, but at $10 a pop, it's not sustainable. I'm hoping my allergies stay in the background again this year.

[Farrar]

Regarding testing, I'm pretty sure the cost of home tests is about to drop, though it may take a little time. The federal government has an initiative. Here, they're giving them out free at the libraries - limited supply at first, but the supply will be steady. Also, they're sending them home with students periodically now in some places. It's not where it should be, but I do think it's going to improve.

[KSera]

8 minutes ago, Farrar said:

Regarding testing, I'm pretty sure the cost of home tests is about to drop, though it may take a little time. The federal government has an initiative. Here, they're giving them out free at the libraries - limited supply at first, but the supply will be steady. Also, they're sending them home with students periodically now in some places. It's not where it should be, but I do think it's going to improve.

I hope so, but also think it's going to be too late for this wave. And I can't fathom why it's not until now that they are *starting* to try to get home tests out. Testing has been an issue in the US in one way or another from the very, very start.

[Farrar]

21 minutes ago, KSera said:

I hope so, but also think it's going to be too late for this wave. And I can't fathom why it's not until now that they are *starting* to try to get home tests out. Testing has been an issue in the US in one way or another from the very, very start.

Yeah, no disagreement from me on that. I just think it’s about to improve, especially in states that actually do things about Covid.