Would you do a building project in the current economic climate?

[cjzimmer1]

Our deck is getting quite old and doesn't have much life left.   We have been contemplating converting it to a four season sunroom/addition to the kitchen.  However, due to the ricidulous building prices, the quote is coming in higher than we want to spend.  We are not handy people by any means but I can do some things, and I am willing to learn a few more.  After we sorted through  what we could reasonably do or find friends who would be willing to help us, we were still left with a bid higher than we like but doable.  Of course we would still need to buy supplies for those parts plus provide a whole lot of labor. The prospect of this seems pretty overwhelming but contracting the whole project was just too much.

So on to my question for those who follow the economy:  I know building prices are crazy high and at some point demand will drop off and in theory prices should settle but they are also talking about inflation becoming a bigger problem.  So for those of you who are knowledgable on this (and I know this is totally guessing on anyone's part), is it likely that prices/labor will drop below current prices in the next year or two or should we just accept that price is probably as good as it gets in the short term and just do it.  Because of the condition of the deck, we only have 2-3 years max (and possibly less than that) before something must be done.  While a deck replacement would be cheaper, in the 20+ years we've lived here I've never sat on the deck.  It's always too hot, too cold or too buggy but extra space would be helpful as the house does feel cramped at times with 8 people.  

Anyone want to weigh in on this, or even if you were recently contemplating a building project of your own what swayed you one way or the other?

[Lady Marmalade]

DH and I were just discussing the price of lumber.  It literally has dropped 40% in the last week and is expected to continue to drop, so materials should be much cheaper very soon.  By Christmas for sure the price of construction materials is supposed to be back to normal.   

Even today, DH looked at the price of a 2 x 4 and what was $12.99 last week is at $8.49 this week.  It's dropping rapidly. 

[mommyoffive]

What are you using to replace the deck?  I thought I read in someone's thread that the composite decks are cheaper now?  

I am not in the building industry, but I guess I wouldn't count on prices coming down.  The last article I read on some of these issues said this is the new normal.  With the border still closed, covid cases rising in the south, people leaving their jobs, extra unemployment. and pent up demand I just wouldn't count on it.  That isn't even counting inflation.   I would guess too "IF" prices fall there is going to be a lot of other people building houses, decks, and all sorts of other things.  

Also thinking of how much that extra room would benefit you for the next year or two that you waited.   And I think anything could push those prices higher.  My gosh in the last year and half we have seen so much that affected the prices and what you can even find at the store.  I would guess the next year will have more things that will do the same thing. 

[mommyoffive]

2 minutes ago, Lady Marmalade said:

DH and I were just discussing the price of lumber.  It literally has dropped 40% in the last week and is expected to continue to drop, so materials should be much cheaper very soon.  By Christmas for sure the price of construction materials is supposed to be back to normal.   

Even today, DH looked at the price of a 2 x 4 and what was $12.99 last week is at $8.49 this week.  It's dropping rapidly. 

Oh wow, I hadn't heard that.   

[Sneezyone]

We are choosing to wait until fall/winter tor our projects. I expect the material prices to drop substantially by then.

[Halftime Hope]

Being on the other side of raising kids, and deferring to my husband's wisdom on these things, I'm glad we went ahead with some things that really enriched our family life.  If this is something that will enhance your home life, sooner is better than later. 

Since it will be a partial DIY project, you'll really have to adjust your family's priorities for the season that it takes to get it knocked out. If you know that the person most likely to invest the lion's share of the labor isn't a finisher, it might take the family strategizing together get it done. 

 

Edited June 23, 2021 by Halftime Hope

[cjzimmer1]

13 minutes ago, Halftime Hope said:

Being on the other side of raising kids, and deferring to my husband's wisdom on these things, I'm glad we went ahead with some things that really enriched our family life.  If this is something that will enhance your home life, sooner is better than later. 

Since it will be a partial DIY project, you'll really have to adjust your family's priorities for the season that it takes to get it knocked out. If you know that the person most likely to invest the lion's share of the labor isn't a finisher, it might take the family strategizing together get it done. 

 

My husband has even fewer DIY skills than I do.  Any and all work will be on me.  Sure if a piece is too heavy he will come help but he won't be screwing, cutting, nailing, sanding, or painting anything.  I can and will recruit the kids as they are available but the olders ones aren't home much and the younger ones are in school (that I will still be managing, correcting, coordinating around whatever house projects I have to tackle).

The current "plan" is we do the demo and the builder does everything except HVAC and electrical (we have 2 friends we are certified in these fields who will be doing this as a side job) through insulation.  This leaves the room in a state of be secured from the elements (we will still have some heat loss without drywall but it seemed the best stopping place) so even if annoying, it technically could stay in that state for years but obviously it wouldn't be very useable in that state.

[cjzimmer1]

23 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

We are choosing to wait until fall/winter tor our projects. I expect the material prices to drop substantially by then.

We have to sign a contract within the next week or two and then we could just get in on the schedule before the ground freezes.  The other builder we were considering was booked into 2022 as of 2 months ago so who knows when he's scheduled out to.  So I could wait to sign a contract and hope the price comes down but it would guarantee pushing the projects into next spring at the earliest. I wish I had the skills to do it all myself and could just start it when things seem more stable but alas this is a big project to tie the roof and siding into the exisiting structure and even our normal go to guy for projects said it was too big a job for him.

[cjzimmer1]

37 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

What are you using to replace the deck?  I thought I read in someone's thread that the composite decks are cheaper now?  

I am not in the building industry, but I guess I wouldn't count on prices coming down.  The last article I read on some of these issues said this is the new normal.  With the border still closed, covid cases rising in the south, people leaving their jobs, extra unemployment. and pent up demand I just wouldn't count on it.  That isn't even counting inflation.   I would guess too "IF" prices fall there is going to be a lot of other people building houses, decks, and all sorts of other things.  

Also thinking of how much that extra room would benefit you for the next year or two that you waited.   And I think anything could push those prices higher.  My gosh in the last year and half we have seen so much that affected the prices and what you can even find at the store.  I would guess the next year will have more things that will do the same thing. 

If we replaced the deck with a deck, it would be composite but even that is running at least $5k-6K.  If we do this project, the deck will become an additional room on the house with only an exterior stairway (and the required platform) no extra deck as we have no use for one so it seems a waste to put money into that when we don't need/want one.

I've gone back and forth so many times.  In a few more years, more than likely the oldest 2 will have moved out and the space will be less of an issue (although the room will still be nice to grow plants in which is a hobby of mine) but we will have to borrow money to do this project  and really hate borrowing money and moreso since the number is higher than I wish to borrow.  In another year or two, I will hopefully have more saved but if inflation becomes a bigger issue than the extra savings will have less of an impact.

[cjzimmer1]

45 minutes ago, Lady Marmalade said:

DH and I were just discussing the price of lumber.  It literally has dropped 40% in the last week and is expected to continue to drop, so materials should be much cheaper very soon.  By Christmas for sure the price of construction materials is supposed to be back to normal.   

Even today, DH looked at the price of a 2 x 4 and what was $12.99 last week is at $8.49 this week.  It's dropping rapidly. 

That is encouraging!  I'm guessing though if I sign a contract now, I'll be tied to today's cost even if it drops dramatically.  And if I wait, well I already know it will be another year minimum before I get the project done (due to the builders being booked out so far and them not being able to pour footings when the ground is frozen).  I feel stuck between a rock and hard place because neither decision seems like a great one right now.

[Annie G]

We just finished an expansion and I was shocked at how cheap the drywall was. We had 990 square ft garage/workshop drywalled, including ceilings, finished, for $3500, including all materials.  Maybe we just thought it was inexpensive because the framing timber was sky high.  But it’s worth getting a quote, because we almost didn’t have the walls finished because we thought it would be too expensive.  

[mommyoffive]

2 minutes ago, cjzimmer1 said:

If we replaced the deck with a deck, it would be composite but even that is running at least $5k-6K.  If we do this project, the deck will become an additional room on the house with only an exterior stairway (and the required platform) no extra deck as we have no use for one so it seems a waste to put money into that when we don't need/want one.

I've gone back and forth so many times.  In a few more years, more than likely the oldest 2 will have moved out and the space will be less of an issue (although the room will still be nice to grow plants in which is a hobby of mine) but we will have to borrow money to do this project  and really hate borrowing money and moreso since the number is higher than I wish to borrow.  In another year or two, I will hopefully have more saved but if inflation becomes a bigger issue than the extra savings will have less of an impact.

I get it.   We go back and forth on moving because in a few years the older ones could be moving out too.   I hadn't heard that lumber has gone down until this thread.  I am wondering though for a project you are hiring out if there will be an issue going forward from the builders.  Like you said being booked for so far in the future.  Or just because they don't have people to do those jobs.  I was just watching the news this morning about American Airlines cancelling so many flights a day for summer.  They reduced staff so much that they can't deal with the influx of people who all now want to travel because they haven't for 1.5 years.  

[Ausmumof3]

59 minutes ago, Lady Marmalade said:

DH and I were just discussing the price of lumber.  It literally has dropped 40% in the last week and is expected to continue to drop, so materials should be much cheaper very soon.  By Christmas for sure the price of construction materials is supposed to be back to normal.   

Even today, DH looked at the price of a 2 x 4 and what was $12.99 last week is at $8.49 this week.  It's dropping rapidly. 

Hmm that’s interesting.  The lumber price issues are only is it kicking in seriously down here and are likely to be for a while because local mills are being outbid by overseas and laying people off.

[cjzimmer1]

1 minute ago, Annie G said:

We just finished an expansion and I was shocked at how cheap the drywall was. We had 990 square ft garage/workshop drywalled, including ceilings, finished, for $3500, including all materials.  Maybe we just thought it was inexpensive because the framing timber was sky high.  But it’s worth getting a quote, because we almost didn’t have the walls finished because we thought it would be too expensive.  

He gave us a full bid and then a revised bid when I pulled off everything I might be able to do or find someone to help me at a lower cost (friends from church who do these full time but take side jobs for extra cash but charge less than going rate through a company) and that number was still higher than what we were hoping to borrow but much better than the full bid.  If we do sign a contract, I can issue change orders to add back in any of these parts but of course, then I'm paying the builders rate on supplies and labor versus the "helping out a friend" rate on labor and the standard price of supplies from the big box building supply store or the even less desirable option of me watching lots of youtube videos and doing it all myself and just paying for supplies (which will be higher than thesupplies with the friends option because I'm sure I'll mess up things somewhere along the line and have to buy some extras) but then I'd have no labor costs.  I'm glad to know drywall isn't horribly expensive since that's the part I'm dreading the most.  I'll have to keep that in mind once I have a better handle on costs.

[cjzimmer1]

21 minutes ago, mommyoffive said:

I get it.   We go back and forth on moving because in a few years the older ones could be moving out too.   I hadn't heard that lumber has gone down until this thread.  I am wondering though for a project you are hiring out if there will be an issue going forward from the builders.  Like you said being booked for so far in the future.  Or just because they don't have people to do those jobs.  I was just watching the news this morning about American Airlines cancelling so many flights a day for summer.  They reduced staff so much that they can't deal with the influx of people who all now want to travel because they haven't for 1.5 years.  

Anything is possible at this point but since it sounds like the bulk of his staff has been there a long time (10+years), I'm guessing he's not going to have too many suddenly quit on him now.  The one thing that has impressed me most of this particular builder is his very open communication style.  Everything has been clearly laid out and discussed.  Even things that are wishy washy because he doesn't have a final answer (some things they can't fully commit to a price until the workers in those areas actually come and see the structure in person and account for any out of the ordinary issues), he flat out explains why that number might change. So at this point, I feel like he's being very honest about what he can/can't do and I don't feel like he's making promises just to get my business.

[RootAnn]

I'd do it. Wood prices are coming down. You have the money. You want to space. 

[KungFuPanda]

I don't think composite is any cheaper, I think regular lumber is just so much more expensive now that people figure they might as well go with composite.  Ordinarily I'm all for DIY because you save so much on labor, but in this case its the materials that are high.  I'd seriously just put off the job until prices normalized.  If the deck is dangerous, and I wanted to DIY something, I might just swap out some deck boards or demolish it and do temporary stairs until I could get the pros in.

If it's a ground level deck, I would be completely on board with DIY once lumber prices returned to normal.

[Carol in Cal.]

I'd do it if I had the money.

I rarely tackle home improvements, but I've been so glad to have them done afterwards, pretty consistently.

Also just FYI about composite--I have Trex decking at our cabin, and if we ever replace it I'm going back to wood.  The idea of melting plastic under my feet as I flee a wildfire is intolerable, and that's a wildfire area.  Also, I never am willing to shovel the snow off that deck because the plastic looks so weird if you scuff it.  Weirdly plasticky.  Just saying.

[cjzimmer1]

37 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

I'd do it. Wood prices are coming down. You have the money. You want to space. 

Kinda sorta.  By the time the job would start I'd have about half the funds and would need to do a home equity loan for the other half.  Not that I will have any problem qualifying, it's just that I'd prefer not to borrow that much.  In the grand scheme isn't not a huge number.  (it's about equivalent to the amount we've borrow to purchase vehicles) but still, it always leaves me slightly stressed when we got loans because well life happens and more bills just make it harder.

[cjzimmer1]

36 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

I don't think composite is any cheaper, I think regular lumber is just so much more expensive now that people figure they might as well go with composite.  Ordinarily I'm all for DIY because you save so much on labor, but in this case its the materials that are high.  I'd seriously just put off the job until prices normalized.  If the deck is dangerous, and I wanted to DIY something, I might just swap out some deck boards or demolish it and do temporary stairs until I could get the pros in.

If it's a ground level deck, I would be completely on board with DIY once lumber prices returned to normal.

Unfortunately it's not the boards that our the problem (well they are but not from a structural standpoint).  The problem is the railings are starting to separate from the deck they can't be reattached because the support boards on two of the edges that they connect to are split where the screws need to go so there is nothing to attach the railing to short of removing the railings and attempting to install them higher or lower which both are safety hazards for other reasons.  And we have a split level house and the stairway is considered the second exit for the house so we absolutely have to maintain the stairs and a standing platform as a minimum to meet code.  We had considered just doing stairs but it's seems wasteful to spend the money to build new stairs (cause the railing on the current set are also problematic and not easily fixable) only to rip them out and redo/replace them later.

 

[cjzimmer1]

21 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

I'd do it if I had the money.

I rarely tackle home improvements, but I've been so glad to have them done afterwards, pretty consistently.

Also just FYI about composite--I have Trex decking at our cabin, and if we ever replace it I'm going back to wood.  The idea of melting plastic under my feet as I flee a wildfire is intolerable, and that's a wildfire area.  Also, I never am willing to shovel the snow off that deck because the plastic looks so weird if you scuff it.  Weirdly plasticky.  Just saying.

Yes I know the feeling of loving something after it's done.  Our sump pump died when we were on vacation and the water/mold/musty took out the majority of things in our finished basement.  Now we had been wanting new carpet down there for years but that wasn't the way I wanted to make the job get done.  But the redone basement is so much nicer so I just try to block out the memories of how difficult the process was.

 

Interesting thought on the composite, see both of those sound so much better to me that the splinters I get from wood, the maintenance that I never knew I was suppose to do until far too late and even then sounded like much too much work.  I guess I figured it wouldn't be much different than looking at old worn wood fences versus vinyl fences.  Wood fences look old and worn down very quickly, vinyl fences they just look the same forever.  I guess I'd rather have a plastic look than more work but I'm sure not everyone feels that way.

[Carrie12345]

How long do you think the job is going to take you to finish? If lumber prices normalize, will you be able to hire more of that work out next year?

(By that, I mean contractors coming closer to normal. It wouldn’t surprise me if they take longer to come down to adjust from any recent losses.)

Edited June 23, 2021 by Carrie12345

[DawnM]

I would go ahead and get a few quote and see what you think.

We are probably paying too much for our renovation, but we were on a time crunch.

Edited June 23, 2021 by DawnM

[Soror]

We're waiting on our project. We have the cash but the drastically increased cost of lumbers would mean thousands more dollars and that is money that has to be pulled from another goal. We went ahead and did the concrete as we had to hire it done and it wasn't much difference in cost but the actual building will hopefully be next year or this fall.

[Bootsie]

We have put off a project because it is so hard to get a contractor/worker in our area and we have heard of people starting projects and then not being able to get an item (like a dishwasher). 

As far as prices in the future, that is anyone's guess.  I think things will stabilize in the next year or so, but I am also concerned that there will be more inflation given the dramatic increase in the money supply.  So, my guess is that prices will be less eratic and more predictiable, but rising due to inflationary pressures.  

[cjzimmer1]

2 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

How long do you think the job is going to take you to finish? If lumber prices normalize, will you be able to hire more of that work out next year?

(By that, I mean contractors coming closer to normal. It wouldn’t surprise me if they take longer to come down to adjust from any recent losses.)

If we hire out the whole project they estimate 6-8 weeks (not that they would be here the whole time but just including the time for footings to dry, wait for inspections etc)

For the parts we might do ourselves?  I have no idea.  Demoing the deck, I'm thinking maybe 3 days just because I want to save some of the boards for other uses so will be removing them more deliberately, plus I'm still healing from a frozen shoulder last year so I can only work so long with my arms above my head before needing a break.  The drywall, mudding, trim?  I've never done any of that before so I expect it will be slow going.  Painting I could do in a day.  Flooring, it's going to be sheet vinyl.  I've never done but I've watched with all the other areas that have been done in the house.  Since it's pretty much a square room, I'm thinking it shouldn't be that hard so probably another day for that.

I'm thinking even if lumber prices come down a ton, I don't think it's going to affect the overall price that much.  The builders here are all crazy busy so it's not like they need to lower their prices to get enough work. 

[cjzimmer1]

1 hour ago, DawnM said:

I would go ahead and get a few quote and see what you think.

We are probably paying too much for our renovation, but we were on a time crunch.

We've already done the quote price.  One wanted 50% the value of our house to add a single 12x14 room.  One is the one we are considering, the third is the one I'm still waiting on a bid for,  we met with him 3 months ago.  He's so back logged that he can't even get bids out.  I've called 3-4 other builders and everyone has been a 2-4 month wait just to get a meeting with them.  

I've been following your building story since I could relate to some of the dilemmas (we've been working on this since February and it's taken this long just to get meetings/quotes) but I'm not on as much of a time crunch as you.  But at the same point, we don't have years and years to wait since at some point the railings are going to complete detach from the deck.  Right now we just tell the kids not to lean on the railings but sometimes my 8 year old forgets which does give me a greater sense of urgency.

[cjzimmer1]

1 hour ago, Soror said:

We're waiting on our project. We have the cash but the drastically increased cost of lumbers would mean thousands more dollars and that is money that has to be pulled from another goal. We went ahead and did the concrete as we had to hire it done and it wasn't much difference in cost but the actual building will hopefully be next year or this fall.

I wish I had a quote before this craziness began.  I have no idea how much the price of lumber has changed the overall project so it's hard to assess if it's a big enough portion to delay or not.  It's not a huge room by any means, but because it's raised, there's the extra layer of lumber for the underside plus the support posts so I'm sure it's using quite a bit more lumber than an equivalent room built on concrete.

[cjzimmer1]

17 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

We have put off a project because it is so hard to get a contractor/worker in our area and we have heard of people starting projects and then not being able to get an item (like a dishwasher). 

As far as prices in the future, that is anyone's guess.  I think things will stabilize in the next year or so, but I am also concerned that there will be more inflation given the dramatic increase in the money supply.  So, my guess is that prices will be less eratic and more predictiable, but rising due to inflationary pressures.  

Thankfully there is no appliances involved in this room.  If there were, I'm probably not even bother because everything I've heard/read on that sounds nightmarish. 

The inflation is definitely a big concern of mine.  And I can't decide if it's worth the gamble to wait or not.  Anyone have a crystal ball?

[DawnM]

17 minutes ago, cjzimmer1 said:

Thankfully there is no appliances involved in this room.  If there were, I'm probably not even bother because everything I've heard/read on that sounds nightmarish. 

The inflation is definitely a big concern of mine.  And I can't decide if it's worth the gamble to wait or not.  Anyone have a crystal ball?

 

I wish.

For us, my dad is paying for most of it.   He has $$ from the sale of his last place and it is covering most of the renovations.   We figured it out with the cost of the cheapest retirement apartment (NOT assisted living) and he will "break even" in about a year to a year and a half by living with us.   And the space is larger.   The cheapest retirement apt is a studio, 380 sq. ft.   Our room is 450 sq. ft.

That is more info than you needed, but just to say that if we didn't need it immediately and if we were paying for it ourselves, we would probably have waited to see if costs would come down.

[Annie G]

If framing timber prices drop back to near ‘normal’ a lot of folks who have put off projects are going to want them done, which may increase demand enough that contractors will raise their labor prices. 

Our contractor is now getting calls for his guys to come finish DIY projects people started during covid but were unable to finish, mostly due to thinking the project was going to be easy since they saw it on the DIY channel or HGTV. 
 

Oddly enough, I can get trades people in easily here but can’t get anyone to do landscaping!  We need a dry well installed and back yard holes filled and a few huge bushes removed.  Nobody is even interested in quoting.

 

[Scarlett]

13 hours ago, Lady Marmalade said:

DH and I were just discussing the price of lumber.  It literally has dropped 40% in the last week and is expected to continue to drop, so materials should be much cheaper very soon.  By Christmas for sure the price of construction materials is supposed to be back to normal.   

Even today, DH looked at the price of a 2 x 4 and what was $12.99 last week is at $8.49 this week.  It's dropping rapidly. 

Oh wow!  This is great news! Dh's family is about to start a huge build....a communal type property....the new structure is roughly 3000 sf total (2 complete homes).  I have been super worried about the price of things.  So thanks for this post!  It gives me hope.

[Zebra]

No.   But a qualified "no".

I have a long story about trying to get a garage built.     I was quoted $70k, and the builder flat out told me 15k was just for the lumber increases.   And that was back in October.    He also told me I had to get on a waiting list for a year.    Same story with my other quote.   

I had quotes originally scheduled for March 2020, and then couldn't actually get them until October.

I also have a story about waiting months for a fridge, and then having to settle for a piece of crap because we really needed a new fridge.

And finally, there are 2 houses being built in my neighborhood that have been hold for months because they are waiting for some material they can't find.  It's not just lumber, it's EVERYTHING, and it's random.

I would only do it if I was comfortable maybe paying too much, getting on a long waiting list, and then having the project stopped indefinitely midway because they can't find enough paper clips (or whatever 🙂 ).    I am not at all comfortable doing that with an expensive garage, for a house I am not even sure I want to stay in.   Building a deck, depending on where it was located on my property, might be different.

[fairfarmhand]

I'd wait 6 months to a year. I think the cost savings would be worth it.

[Carol in Cal.]

2 hours ago, Bootsie said:

We have put off a project because it is so hard to get a contractor/worker in our area and we have heard of people starting projects and then not being able to get an item (like a dishwasher). 

As far as prices in the future, that is anyone's guess.  I think things will stabilize in the next year or so, but I am also concerned that there will be more inflation given the dramatic increase in the money supply.  So, my guess is that prices will be less eratic and more predictiable, but rising due to inflationary pressures.  

This is definitely a time to assemble all parts before starting a job.

I have a relative who is having a house built, and sold her house to move there.  Then everything just plain stalled, and she doesn’t know when it will be done, or whether ‘done’ includes appliances and fixtures, or anything much at all.  Luckily she has friends who she is housesitting for so she doesn’t have high ongoing living costs for now, but the uncertainty is really tough.

[cjzimmer1]

1 hour ago, Annie G said:

If framing timber prices drop back to near ‘normal’ a lot of folks who have put off projects are going to want them done, which may increase demand enough that contractors will raise their labor prices. 

Our contractor is now getting calls for his guys to come finish DIY projects people started during covid but were unable to finish, mostly due to thinking the project was going to be easy since they saw it on the DIY channel or HGTV. 
 

Oddly enough, I can get trades people in easily here but can’t get anyone to do landscaping!  We need a dry well installed and back yard holes filled and a few huge bushes removed.  Nobody is even interested in quoting.

 

I'm not looking forward to the DIY aspect.  I don't even "like" painting but I do it because I can and it saves money.  I don't expect any of the rest to be easy but I do expect I "can" do it even if it takes a long time.  I am in a situation where I have more time than money so even if it takes me 3x as long as a professional, it's still a better choice for me.  I do have the option to add back the jobs I've pulled out so if by chance I win the lottery between now and then, I could still have the builder do the whole project.  

I haven't even tried looking for a landscaper yet.  I have a large rock wall that runs through the middle of the yard.  It's been a problem from day one and after 20+ years, it's on the radar of things I really need to deal with.  It was originally going to be the project of the year before this building project came up and now I'm justify holding off on landscaping since I will have to change some things if/when the new addition goes on because the footprint isn't the same. However, I do like landscaping stuff way more than building stuff so even the DIY stuff is more enjoyable to me.  However, I still have to hire some of it out because I don't know how to drive a bobcat and there is no way I'm moving the boulders without one.  

The more I hear about what others on this board are dealing with in their neck of the woods, the more I think I'm leaning towards just getting it done.  I'm thinking things are going to be rocky for a while and I should just lock in someone who is willing to commit versus waiting and ending up with nothing.  If the project was completely optional it would be easier to wait but there is some safety factors so in the grand scheme, I think it's better to spend the money than be worrying the next year or two about how the railings are holding up just because I want to save money.

[SoCal_Bear]

12 hours ago, cjzimmer1 said:

Interesting thought on the composite, see both of those sound so much better to me that the splinters I get from wood, the maintenance that I never knew I was suppose to do until far too late and even then sounded like much too much work.  I guess I figured it wouldn't be much different than looking at old worn wood fences versus vinyl fences.  Wood fences look old and worn down very quickly, vinyl fences they just look the same forever.  I guess I'd rather have a plastic look than more work but I'm sure not everyone feels that way.

It really depends on what Trex you are talking about and when it was installed. The older product lines didn't look that nice. The newer ones are nice and have held up so well. I built decking with it for my house (no longer own) and my in-laws in the hills on a steep slope. They never do any maintenance on their home, so whatever happens we have to do. We've done nothing for the Trex decking for the past 15 years and it still looks and functions as well as it has since we installed it. They get on shore winds from the bay and western exposure from the sun.

[Acadie]

3 minutes ago, cjzimmer1 said:

The more I hear about what others on this board are dealing with in their neck of the woods, the more I think I'm leaning towards just getting it done.  I'm thinking things are going to be rocky for a while and I should just lock in someone who is willing to commit versus waiting and ending up with nothing.  If the project was completely optional it would be easier to wait but there is some safety factors so in the grand scheme, I think it's better to spend the money than be worrying the next year or two about how the railings are holding up just because I want to save money.

The safety issues seem very significant to me--what happens when you're not there to remind the 8 year old (or friends) not to lean on the unsafe railing? I'd definitely prioritize a project like that. 

Sounds like you've had good communication with the contractor, but if you're not sure how much lumber is adding to the cost could you ask that specifically, or have another round of discussion on different options for materials and other cost savings? 

Here, we decided to go ahead with installing a patio for almost twice what I hoped to pay for it. The yard looks terrible because we had the deck removed from that spot already, and exterior basement waterproofing done, so we're not really using the backyard for hosting and I really want to have that space as we emerge from the pandemic. There will be social and emotional benefits to having it done. 

I was very upfront with the contractor about needing to get the price down and we went back and forth several times and found several ways to save. Even though the cost is higher than we hoped, we're installing a larger patio overall than we planned first, which makes sense given the slope of the area etc, and other estimates were higher. It took a while for us to commit, but once we did I was so relieved to order the materials, get on the waiting list and have it settled. It just feels right to take care of this right now and I know we'll love it and get lots of use out of it. 

We're also having the house painted this summer. The price for that was a bit higher than I expected but not double, like the patio.

The project we're waiting on is a kitchen remodel. We don't really have the money right now, and even if we did I think I'd wait given the difficulty of getting contractors and price fluctuations. 

[cjzimmer1]

1 hour ago, Zebra said:

No.   But a qualified "no".

I have a long story about trying to get a garage built.     I was quoted $70k, and the builder flat out told me 15k was just for the lumber increases.   And that was back in October.    He also told me I had to get on a waiting list for a year.    Same story with my other quote.   

I had quotes originally scheduled for March 2020, and then couldn't actually get them until October.

I also have a story about waiting months for a fridge, and then having to settle for a piece of crap because we really needed a new fridge.

And finally, there are 2 houses being built in my neighborhood that have been hold for months because they are waiting for some material they can't find.  It's not just lumber, it's EVERYTHING, and it's random.

I would only do it if I was comfortable maybe paying too much, getting on a long waiting list, and then having the project stopped indefinitely midway because they can't find enough paper clips (or whatever 🙂 ).    I am not at all comfortable doing that with an expensive garage, for a house I am not even sure I want to stay in.   Building a deck, depending on where it was located on my property, might be different.

Yes this is one of the questions I still have for the builder, the quote is just that and prices can still change.  I want to know at what point is the price "locked" so I know  exactly what I'm paying.  I know some of it is based on my selections for windows/doors etc but we don't get to that part until we have a formal design and that part costs money.  We have no plans to move anytime soon and while I have some leeway on timing, it's not indefinite due to it becoming a safety hazard if the railings detach.  But of course, if I go ahead and the project gets stalled, I will still have a safety hazard on my hands since this is the second exit for the house.  So unfortunately, my decision is not should I fix the deck or not, it's I have to replace this thing  in the next couple of year and what option makes the most sense.

 

For anyone who is curious, the first picture is looking down from the deck and you can see where the railing is separating.  It's currently like this on both sides close to the house but the parts farther away from the house are still firmly attached.  The second picture is the crack where the  railings are suppose to attach to but the screw just slides in and out of the crack.  This stretch is only about 3 feet long but there are other areas developing and screws slowly pulling out.  

[Acadie]

Oh! Also forgot to add that seeing our home value go up, up, up on Zillow helped nudge us toward doing the patio. It's a major improvement and will definitely add value to the house in the demographic that would be likely buyers in 5-10 years. The material we're installing is great quality and should last with minimal maintenance until we sell. I'm not an expert on the housing market but I don't think the dilemmas of the pandemic are going to be lost on people anytime soon--a house with livable indoor and outdoor space will be a desirable commodity for the forseeable future, I believe. 

[cjzimmer1]

30 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

This is definitely a time to assemble all parts before starting a job.

I have a relative who is having a house built, and sold her house to move there.  Then everything just plain stalled, and she doesn’t know when it will be done, or whether ‘done’ includes appliances and fixtures, or anything much at all.  Luckily she has friends who she is housesitting for so she doesn’t have high ongoing living costs for now, but the uncertainty is really tough.

Ugh that sounds awful!  

[cjzimmer1]

7 minutes ago, calbear said:

It really depends on what Trex you are talking about and when it was installed. The older product lines didn't look that nice. The newer ones are nice and have held up so well. I built decking with it for my house (no longer own) and my in-laws in the hills on a steep slope. They never do any maintenance on their home, so whatever happens we have to do. We've done nothing for the Trex decking for the past 15 years and it still looks and functions as well as it has since we installed it. They get on shore winds from the bay and western exposure from the sun.

That sounds exactly like what I'm hoping for!  And even if it doesn't look well, I just want a product that does the job without any extra work for me.

[cjzimmer1]

30 minutes ago, Acadie said:

The safety issues seem very significant to me--what happens when you're not there to remind the 8 year old (or friends) not to lean on the unsafe railing? I'd definitely prioritize a project like that. 

Sounds like you've had good communication with the contractor, but if you're not sure how much lumber is adding to the cost could you ask that specifically, or have another round of discussion on different options for materials and other cost savings? 

Here, we decided to go ahead with installing a patio for almost twice what I hoped to pay for it. The yard looks terrible because we had the deck removed from that spot already, and exterior basement waterproofing done, so we're not really using the backyard for hosting and I really want to have that space as we emerge from the pandemic. There will be social and emotional benefits to having it done. 

I was very upfront with the contractor about needing to get the price down and we went back and forth several times and found several ways to save. Even though the cost is higher than we hoped, we're installing a larger patio overall than we planned first, which makes sense given the slope of the area etc, and other estimates were higher. It took a while for us to commit, but once we did I was so relieved to order the materials, get on the waiting list and have it settled. It just feels right to take care of this right now and I know we'll love it and get lots of use out of it. 

We're also having the house painted this summer. The price for that was a bit higher than I expected but not double, like the patio.

The project we're waiting on is a kitchen remodel. We don't really have the money right now, and even if we did I think I'd wait given the difficulty of getting contractors and price fluctuations. 

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.  I know we will enjoy it if it gets done. I can actually "see" the entire space, the decorations/furniture and landscaping all in my head and know that it will be great.  It's just the costs are so high and worry it's foolish to spend that much money on a single room.  It's not likely to add value to the house (and may even detract for all I know) because sunrooms are notorious for not keeping up their value here plus we are removing the deck to accomplish it 9and I'm sure many people would view a deck as a necessity).  However, I've never done anything design/color wise because of resale value and make choices because it's suits my needs/desires.  Might be short sighted on my part, but in the meantime, I'm always happy in my space.

We are not social people so it's a very rare occurrence we have people over so really this space is just for us.  Kitchen remodels always sound miserable to me.  I think it would take a major disaster before I'd want to take one of those on.  Like I'd take the 70's avacado if I had to not to deal with the upheaval of a remodel.  But I LOVE to cook and bake and so going weeks without the space would be torture for me.  

[SoCal_Bear]

Here is a picture of one of the decks I did with Trex. Not my in-laws house, but this is the house I sold.
 

[Carol in Cal.]

1 hour ago, calbear said:

It really depends on what Trex you are talking about and when it was installed. The older product lines didn't look that nice. The newer ones are nice and have held up so well. I built decking with it for my house (no longer own) and my in-laws in the hills on a steep slope. They never do any maintenance on their home, so whatever happens we have to do. We've done nothing for the Trex decking for the past 15 years and it still looks and functions as well as it has since we installed it. They get on shore winds from the bay and western exposure from the sun.

And I don’t know that about mine, but I have seen Trex with scuffs (from snow shovels or moving furniture) and the scuff raises like plastic, in little waves, and can’t be fixed.  It does hold up better to wind and salt and sun but mechanical damage hits it worse.

[Carol in Cal.]

PS If money were no object and I was adding a garden room, I would underlay it with stainless steel girders, use LVPs for the floor, and have motorized stainless shutters installed outside the windows.  I’d use cement shingles outside.  Triple paned storm windows, so that I could use it like a screened in porch but also like a winter room.  A space heater would be adequate in the winter.

I saw a very high altitude (10K feet or so) place built like that, where it would endure SERIOUS weather ongoing, and it was impervious to everything.  (Quite a remarkable place, really.)

[SoCal_Bear]

Yes, I only have used power washer, push brooms or blowers on the deck. 

 

[Annie G]

2 hours ago, cjzimmer1 said:

I'm not looking forward to the DIY aspect.  I don't even "like" painting but I do it because I can and it saves money.  I don't expect any of the rest to be easy but I do expect I "can" do it even if it takes a long time.  I am in a situation where I have more time than money so even if it takes me 3x as long as a professional, it's still a better choice for me.  I do have the option to add back the jobs I've pulled out so if by chance I win the lottery between now and then, I could still have the builder do the whole project.  

 

I’m sorry if I gave you the impression I was doubting your DIY skills. I didn’t mean that at all. My guy is fixing crazy big things that homeowners started during lockdown...like a complete bathroom gut and the folks have no idea how to do plumbing, lay tile, go from a tub to a walk in shower...that kind of thing.  One customer drywalled and painted the shower walls instead of tiling because ‘ the paint can says it’s good for bathrooms’. 

[cjzimmer1]

3 hours ago, Annie G said:

I’m sorry if I gave you the impression I was doubting your DIY skills. I didn’t mean that at all. My guy is fixing crazy big things that homeowners started during lockdown...like a complete bathroom gut and the folks have no idea how to do plumbing, lay tile, go from a tub to a walk in shower...that kind of thing.  One customer drywalled and painted the shower walls instead of tiling because ‘ the paint can says it’s good for bathrooms’. 

Oh I didn't take it that way at all.  I just meant that my DIY skills aren't very good and I could totally see myself giving up on a DIY project midway through if only I had the money to farm it out.  At least I can say I know enough not to paint shower walls.  Everything other than painting will be brand new territory for me but I do love to research things, so learning how to do it won't be bad, it's just the actually DOING it that I'm not looking forward to.

Edited June 23, 2021 by cjzimmer1

[Janeway]

I would wait. Aside from the high cost, there is a shortage. There’s people right now who don’t have the materials needed to make their homes livable after storm damage and stuff. We kind of need a new car but are waiting. No way am I spending these high rates.