Elder driving issue

[skimomma]

Please don't quote as I will delete this later.

Deleted for privacy but happy to continue the conversation.  It has been very helpful!  

 

 

Edited March 16, 2021 by skimomma

[Katy]

Ask the doctor to notify the DMV. 

If she has dementia you need to get declared a POA & stop her ability to do anything like this. 

[skimomma]

4 minutes ago, Katy said:

Ask the doctor to notify the DMV. 

If she has dementia you need to get declared a POA & stop her ability to do anything like this. 

I am her POA.  What you are suggesting is become her guardian.  This requires going to court.  I am in the process of getting this going but it takes time.  And it's a high bar.  There is a big space between not realizing you are an unsafe driver and not able to make any decisions for yourself.  I need to address this issue well before any of this can happen.

[Hyacinth]

22 minutes ago, skimomma said:

But she trusted me enough to ask me to handle her affairs.  She even said that she knew I would have to make decisions that might make her unhappy and to do so anyway.

Remind yourself of this as often as you need to.

I don't know the right way to address your situation, but I empathize. We went through something similar with my FIL. MIL was so distraught once at the thought of him driving that she called my husband asking him to DO SOMETHING. As a temporary fix to buy some time at least for that day, DH removed a spark plug (I think) from the car. FIL called AAA who fixed the car and FIL took a drive. He was found many hours and hundreds of miles later, wandering the side of a highway, confused, soiled, and angry.

That was the final straw for the family. They took his car keys and suffered with the anger.

Terrible time for everyone.  

Edited March 16, 2021 by Hyacinth

[Starr]

This is one of the hardest things. I'm so sorry. I would do what I had to so she doesn't drive and hurt herself or someone else. We had to do this for my mom. 

[Pintosrock]

For my grandmother, the issue was a fear of being stuck at home. We figured out where she wanted to go and bought her a bus pass. Rode with her a few times so she experienced what it would be like. 

Does the facility provide shuttle service? 

[Mrs Tiggywinkle]

Does the facility have a social worker? I would contact either their social worker or administration.  They’ve got eyes on her and will fully understand, and likely be able to offer suggestions. If they know what she’s planning they may be able to explain to her why she can’t leave the facility.

Dementia/Alzheimer’s and wandering is a huge concern.  They may start wanting to talk about a higher level of care, especially if she’s obsessing about leaving the facility, even if only for a drive.

[BusyMom5]

Similar issue, and it was very hard to get the license legally taken away- took police filing bc of (repeated) unsafe driving,  a year suspension,  then trying to get it back and failing cognitive tests.  I suggest you contact the nursing home to give them a heads up.  They may be able to help or tell you where to start, can give the Dr more info to file unsafe driver papers.  The person in my life is still trying to get it back, but is headed to a home for dementia soon.  Its very hard to watch, and harder to manage.  

[happi duck]

Does her state do renewal by mail?  If so have her do that and lean in to that if she leaves she loses her spot.  Hopefully getting renewed will remove the urgency.  

Regarding the car, the money is your decision correct?  Maybe, no matter how much it costs say that it's too expensive to fix.

[J-rap]

I like the idea above of her doctor calling the DMV.  That way you can honestly tell her --if she asks you -- that no, you didn't call the DMV.  Perhaps the AL facility even has someone on their staff who knows her state of mind and can help make that happen.  If she's been officially diagnosed as having cognitive impairment, it seems like they'd have a good case.

We had this issue with my mother, although she soon became too debilitated to even try and drive, so then it became a non-issue.  But in the meantime, we learned about Metro Mobility and had begun setting it up for her.  It takes a little time, but once it's set up, it seems like it could be a good solution for some people.  Or seconding the question above:  Does the facility have a shuttle service that could bring her to the grocery store, etc.?

It's a really, really tough situation, I agree.  My dad still drives (at 93) and is pretty stubborn, but he is still sharp and knows to just stay on the local streets and only in the daytime.  (He avoids all night-time driving, all highways and freeways and busy roads.)

[skimomma]

11 minutes ago, Pintosrock said:

For my grandmother, the issue was a fear of being stuck at home. We figured out where she wanted to go and bought her a bus pass. Rode with her a few times so she experienced what it would be like. 

Does the facility provide shuttle service? 

They do have a shuttle for going to some local stores.  She also has a local support network who will give her rides, but she is shy about asking.

I'm afraid she is no longer able to handle the planning required for using a bus or taxi.  Like remembering when and where to meet for pick up, keeping track of schedules, etc.....

[skimomma]

7 minutes ago, Mrs Tiggywinkle said:

Does the facility have a social worker? I would contact either their social worker or administration.  They’ve got eyes on her and will fully understand, and likely be able to offer suggestions. If they know what she’s planning they may be able to explain to her why she can’t leave the facility.

Dementia/Alzheimer’s and wandering is a huge concern.  They may start wanting to talk about a higher level of care, especially if she’s obsessing about leaving the facility, even if only for a drive.

I've left messages everywhere and am awaiting return calls.  I am hopeful they can help but I think it is pretty unusual.  She is the only resident there that even has a car so they kind of didn't know how to handle it to begin with.

[skimomma]

4 minutes ago, happi duck said:

Does her state do renewal by mail?  If so have her do that and lean in to that if she leaves she loses her spot.  Hopefully getting renewed will remove the urgency.  

Regarding the car, the money is your decision correct?  Maybe, no matter how much it costs say that it's too expensive to fix.

They do by mail but every so many years you have to come in for a new photo.  That is the case here.  

[Katy]

The stage after diagnosis where she needs to stay put but has the physical ability to leave is when she should be in a locked memory care unit, IME.  Whether there are beds available in the ones near you is another question. 
 

It’s probably best to speak to a local social worker familiar with the laws in your state. If she has had a diagnosis for more than a year it’s likely not as difficult as you think to ensure she can’t make her own decisions. 

[skimomma]

5 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

Are you absolutely certain about this? Every legal document is different, but what you say was not my experience. I had an extensive POA for an elder and the lawyers told me all I had to do was begin using the powers granted to in it - no need to seek additional status as guardian. 
 

Please do all you can to stop her from driving. Her level of distress cannot match the level of distress that would be experienced by many should she cause an accident that took another’s life. For one parent we were able to disable the vehicle. For another we had to flat out take away the keys. 

I have a durable POA which means I can, and do, act as her representative when needed but she can also act on her own behalf.  I know this varies by state.  I our case, we needed this very early on to deal with some complex financial issues (basically, sorting out a huge mess after years of bounced checks, backed taxes, and missed bills) when she was still fully able to make most decisions on her own.  

[skimomma]

2 minutes ago, Katy said:

The stage after diagnosis where she needs to stay put but has the physical ability to leave is when she should be in a locked memory care unit, IME.  Whether there are beds available in the ones near you is another question. 
 

It’s probably best to speak to a local social worker familiar with the laws in your state. If she has had a diagnosis for more than a year it’s likely not as difficult as you think to ensure she can’t make her own decisions. 

All true and all in the works, but it will take time.  I just need to address this driving issue right now.

[Starr]

We found the easiest was to say there wasn't enough money or the car was beyond repair. I don't remember exactly what my sister told her. She still talks about wanting a car but isn't able to buy a new one.

[Innisfree]

Big hugs; I've been there, and I know how devastating it is for an elder to lose the ability to drive. At the same time, the consequences of letting her drive could be far worse.

While you're working on longer term solutions, I'm in favor of whatever it takes.

59 minutes ago, skimomma said:

I cannot ask the mechanic to lie and say the car is not fixable.  That does not seem ethical.

In this situation, I think asking the mechanic to say it's not fixable* is ethical. Lives are at stake, along with lots of other consequences like being unable to return to her facility.

Or maybe someone in her facility can help the car key get lost (and handed over to you). Honestly, whatever it takes.

Distraction might help, along with the dementia itself. Is there paperwork or something that's visibly reminding her about this? Or the driver's license itself? How did she start thinking about it? If there's some visual reminder, I'd ask the facility to remove it and send it to you. Is there any other topic of consuming interest to her which she could be prompted to focus on?

* Editing to add that the situation, and her ability to drive, aren't fixable. That's honest. She can't drive her car.

Edited March 16, 2021 by Innisfree

[skimomma]

6 minutes ago, Innisfree said:

Big hugs; I've been there, and I know how devastating it is for an elder to lose the ability to drive. At the same time, the consequences of letting her drive could be far worse.

While you're working on longer term solutions, I'm in favor of whatever it takes.

In this situation, I think asking the mechanic to say it's not fixable* is ethical. Lives are at stake, along with lots of other consequences like being unable to return to her facility.

Or maybe someone in her facility can help the car key get lost (and handed over to you). Honestly, whatever it takes.

Distraction might help, along with the dementia itself. Is there paperwork or something that's visibly reminding her about this? Or the driver's license itself? How did she start thinking about it? If there's some visual reminder, I'd ask the facility to remove it and send it to you. Is there any other topic of consuming interest to her which she could be prompted to focus on?

* Editing to add that the situation, and her ability to drive, aren't fixable. That's honest. She can't drive her car.

Thanks.  This is all so heartbreaking and I hate to do anything that will upset her so much.

I handle all of her mail, except stuff from the DMV since they send that to her actual address.  I am guessing she got a reminder in the mail.  She is funny in that she cannot remember some things but can absolutely cling on to something.  We have been through this with other issues.  

[Innisfree]

1 minute ago, skimomma said:

This is all so heartbreaking and I hate to do anything that will upset her so much.

I understand. We went through lots of versions of this with my mother. You're right, it is heartbreaking.

Try to remember what she said about doing what you had to do, even if she can't understand anymore. She wouldn't want to be in a position to harm others.

[Innisfree]

Maybe it's time to send the DMV a change of address form.

[Innisfree]

With my mother, I ended up visualizing what she would have said about a situation twenty years earlier. Kwim? When she was more fully herself, she'd have seen things differently. That helped a little.

I'd also seriously orchestrate some big, engrossing distraction: something which would make her happy. Maybe ask a favorite relative to call, or send a package, or... something.

[PeppermintPattie]

Can you go along with her plan, but ask the mechanic to delay picking up the car and fixing it? It is possible that the DMV won't have appointments in time, if you can put it off a little. Or is the renewal too long away? 

There are so many risks if she leaves - having to move, the risk of hurting herself or someone else, the financial cost... If you can't delay her long enough you're going to have to tell her that you are calling the DMV. 

[Bootsie]

If you have a durable POA, can you arrange to sell the car on her behalf?  

I am not quite understanding the issue of if she goes out she can't return to the facility but the facilty provides rides to certain stores and she has a network for friends that she can depend upon for rides.  Are those options not available right now because of COVID?

[mlktwins]

I'm so sorry you are going through all of this.  My dad is in an independent living (mostly elderly residents) apartment building.  It is next to an assisted living with memory care facility and also a 55+ residential neighborhood.  A LOT of accidents happen in that area 😔.

I moved my dad to this apartment (about 10 minutes from me) and we had a huge battle over him continuing to drive.  His reflexes are horrible and his short term memory is bad, but long term is good.  It was not fun, but I knew it would not go well if he continued driving.  And...I would drive him places and then see how he maneuvered the parking lot, etc.  He never could never find his own way back to the car even though I told him driving into the parking lot that he was going to have to find the car on the way out.  He felt very trapped and I get that.  But...I was like do you want to be injured or killed or injure or kill someone else, because I don't see this going well.  He has not driven in 2 years at this point.  Before Covid, I made sure I got him out and about a couple of times a week.  The past year there hasn't really been anywhere to go.  It's so hard!

I'm also responsible for everything for my dad.  It is A LOT!!!  All the stress and worry.  And...frustration!!!  And...DH is dealing with his 94 year old parents that both still have a license.  That is an accident waiting to happen!  They haven't driven in a year now and hopefully won't do so again.  Everyone in our area speeds, and FIL got pulled over once for going too slow.  They wanted to make sure he was ok.  That was about 5 years ago.  Can't even imagine what his driving would be like now.  That will be DH's battle to fight though.  They are also local.

My dad hasn't been good about taking his daily meds, etc.  No matter what we put in place to make it happen.  I call him every day to make sure he takes them but, even then, I go over and he missed some.  Once he missed 4 out of 7 days.  So...we had a little talk.  I'm like you can move to assisted living (he doesn't want to - he loves his place), we can hire a nurse to come in to make sure you take them everyday and do other things (minimum 4 hours a day x at least $25/hour), or you can take your meds when I call (doesn't want to spend his money on that), or take them when I call.  He is doing better, but it is always a battle.  I do what I have to do to keep his freedom for him as long as I can.

Would it work to say that her next level of care is memory care and she will not be driving or going anywhere on her own when she is there?  To say she can stay where she is for now, for a long as she safely can, as long as she doesn't drive and the car is sold?  I mean...that is kind of what it is going to come to at this point???  She needs to be safe and to keep others safe as well!

Again, I'm just so sorry.  I've cried many tears over the past couple of years dealing with this.  I had twins and buried my mom and I can honestly say that this - caring for an elderly person -- is the hardest thing I've ever had to do.  My mom dying broke my heart and I was devastated, but I wasn't trying to keep her alive.  It was already done.  I'm trying to keep dad alive.  If this makes sense at all!

Keep fighting though!  You are a wonderful daughter and doing all you can!!!  She is lucky to have you.

Oh yes...I'm hoping to make things easier for my boys down the road when DH and I are elderly.  I remember reading somewhere that a parent wrote letters to the kids (while the parent was still relatively young and capable) that down the road, things might be hard (if they had dementia, etc.) and to know that the decisions the kids would making to provide good care for them would likely be met with combativeness from them.  To know that they were making all the right decisions and that it was appreciated even though it would probably never be expressed as such.  Basically telling the kids that they knew it was hard, but to do what they had to do despite what the parent said or did.

      

[mlktwins]

Just now, Seasider too said:

I have written that letter - from me, to my older self - about driving. It’s waiting for my kids. I’ve mentioned it on this board in past years. I’m sure I’m not the first person to think of it. I want to make sure my kids don’t have to go through what I have gone through with regard to a parent’s driving days coming to an end. 

🥰!  It was probably you because I think it was in a thread about what we can do different to help our kids when we get to this stage.  It would have been between 9/2018 and 6/2019, when I was in the throughs of getting him moved, his house cleaned out, fixed up, and sold.  Hardest 10 months of my life.  I probably have that thread saved somewhere.  It seemed several of us were going through this at the same time.  So hard!

[happi duck]

It seems the renewal is the issue.  Just letting it lapse is admitting a lot.  Can the shuttle take her for her renewal? "I've got to look at the finances so let's leave the car for now."

Perhaps having a valid license will be enough and the car will still be inoperable.

(hugs) I've btdt and it's hard.

[Farrar]

I don't understand why you would see reporting her as an unsafe driver to the DMV as a "nuclear option." That's clearly your best option. You should do that - no question. 

[mlktwins]

1 minute ago, Seasider too said:

Yes that would have been when I was dealing with the legal fallout of an elder who did not give up keys when told by physicians it was time to stop driving. 

Well...I'm glad you wrote it because it had a huge impact on me.  That whole thread did!!!

[skimomma]

30 minutes ago, Bootsie said:

If you have a durable POA, can you arrange to sell the car on her behalf?  

I am not quite understanding the issue of if she goes out she can't return to the facility but the facilty provides rides to certain stores and she has a network for friends that she can depend upon for rides.  Are those options not available right now because of COVID?

I can sell the car on her behalf.  t is not worth anything anyway.  And yes, Covid rules mean that she cannot come and go right now.  She will be able to once those are listed, which I am told will be quite soon.

[skimomma]

5 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I don't understand why you would see reporting her as an unsafe driver to the DMV as a "nuclear option." That's clearly your best option. You should do that - no question. 

I think because it just seems so mean.  But yes, I think we will have to do that.  I'd still like it to come from her doctor instead.

[mlktwins]

5 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

You know I think this might be a good idea. If it’s refused by the DMV, your issue is solved. If she gets a new license, it doesn’t mean she has to use it, but at least that would settle her mind  on that issue and give you more time to deflect about the car. If the car “can’t” be fixed, then it’s not about her, it’s about the car, kwim? She should not drive any more, but having a license to carry around in her purse might comfort her. I’d find a way to lose the car keys though - at least replace the auto key with a useless look alike. 

We took my dad's keys several times and, while he wasn't planning to go anywhere, he looked for them occasionally.  When he couldn't find them, he took it out on me.  He was pretty nasty when this happened.  This is usually when he said he felt trapped without his keys or a car.  So...it may help, but might cause even more problems.  Still did what I had to do.  He still has his license, but no car to drive.

Edited March 16, 2021 by mlktwins

[Ali in OR]

I do like the idea of selling the car.

My in-laws faced this issue when dh's grandparents were in their late 80's--state renewed the driver's license with no test or anything, family tried to get them to stop driving. The end result was that they died in a car crash trying to make a left turn on a rural highway. They were taking another elderly relative to the grocery store and she died too. So the concerns are real; there comes a time when you just shouldn't drive anymore. Sounds like your mom is well past that time.

[Innisfree]

Just now, skimomma said:

I think because it just seems so mean.  But yes, I think we will have to do that.  I'd still like it to come from her doctor instead.

She may not attribute it to the actual person who calls, no matter who that is. If she's not understanding the implications of leaving her facility to go to DMV, then she's really not perceiving reality accurately. So, she's going to attribute the DMV call to someone (assuming she finds out about it), based on her own perceptions of likelihood, but not necessarily attribute it to the right person.

In other words, she may blame you even if it was really the doctor, or vice versa.

I like the idea of providing fake keys. Do you think you could provide a fake DMV notice that due to Covid restrictions, renewal times have been extended for a nice long time? Just relieve her mind, so the whole issue subsides. Then get that transfer to memory care in the works.

[Spryte]

I agree she should not be driving.  

I was lucky in that my elders all knew when it was time to hang up the keys.  My mother struggled with it, but her doctor told her - and that was that.  She listened.  When she grumbled, I reminded her and stayed firm.  But I was close enough to take the keys. I helped her get a photo state ID instead (your mom will probably still need a photo ID of some sort).

Can you get her to agree to an eval with the doc first?  And then abide by what the doc says?  Would she agree to that ahead of time?  Then, I would attend the appointment (televisit would make this easier, or phone) and tell the doc my concerns.

I have 3 elders in my life, one living with us.  They range from 80 - 85, all have some level of dementia. It’s hard. We are constantly on the phone with the facility where the ILs live, it’s almost more work than the elder living here.  So I really understand what you’re going through!

Slightly off topic, but related:

What I have seen is that each of them will laser focus on one issue at a time.  That issue becomes the Holy Grail.  Occasionally we can shift the focus to something else.  It sounds like your mom is laser focused on the DL. Maybe, just maybe, you can brainstorm and come up with another issue she can obsess over?  It doesn’t always work, but I’ve been known to try!

I’ve found that as their worlds shrink to those four walls around them (especially with Covid precautions in facilities), my elders have become more and more self-centered and focused on their own needs.  My FIL in particular makes things very complicated and difficult, and he spins and spins on one giant issue at a time.  He will call 6 times during DH’s work day to [insert whatever issue is The Big Thing of the day - sometimes it is as small as ordering candy for the staff, sometimes big issues).  Once that issue is resolved, he moves to the next.  At some points he has given notice to facilities he will be moving in 30 days, and almost lost his spot, it’s a mess!

In this case, I’d be trying to get the doc involved.  And would be upfront with the mechanic that, yes, the car needs to be fixed (to sell), but here’s our situation and after you fix it can you keep it there while I sort this out?  I’d also be talking to the facility about their rules for leaving the facility and coming back, and letting them know you have an issue.  And I’d be helping my mom find out how and when she can leave safely on the transport bus to shop or whatever, to help her feel less trapped.

I am sorry you are going through this.  Please keep us posted.

[Annie G]

6 minutes ago, happi duck said:

It seems the renewal is the issue.  Just letting it lapse is admitting a lot.  Can the shuttle take her for her renewal? "I've got to look at the finances so let's leave the car for now."

Perhaps having a valid license will be enough and the car will still be inoperable.

(hugs) I've btdt and it's hard.

Kind of have to agree with this- she might drive whether she has a license or not, and if op helps her get it, that would prevent her from getting kicked out of the facility, right? I mean if they’re running shuttles to places, surely there’s a way to get permission to do something that is necessary.  I guess what I’m saying is that she might drive whether she has a valid license or not, and having a valid one might quell the compulsion to actually drive.  

3 minutes ago, Farrar said:

I don't understand why you would see reporting her as an unsafe driver to the DMV as a "nuclear option." That's clearly your best option. You should do that - no question. 

My sister is dad’s POA, and three years ago we had a family meeting to discuss things, including his driving. I’m very vocal that he needs to be evaluated for his driving ability, because I had recently ridden w him and it was terrifying. During the meeting Dad got upset and my sister took his side and said his driving is fine. Since then she mostly drives but he drives himself to buy groceries and go to places like Home Depot. My sister is adamant that he’s only driving places he’s familiar with, but he has cognitive issues due to age and shouldn’t be driving, at least without an evaluation. I recently found out I can send a request to the dmv and I’m contemplating that, knowing that if I do, my sister and father will never speak to me again.  So while making a report to the dmv is the right thing to do, I completely understand how hard the decision is.  (and if you think I’m wrong about how they’ll react, it’s based on history. My brother was going through a divorce and called to tell me he was going to tell his 3 year old son he was never going to see him again. He couldn’t bear to share custody so opted to cut all ties w the kid. I told my brother he was being selfish and not to do it. He hasn’t spoken directly to me in the 18 years since. I am happy to report that after 2 years he did agree to sharing custody) It’s just really hard to do the right thing when it’ll cause you pain.

[ericathemom]

We went through this with my father in law this year and it is definitely very rough. We couldn't get a doctor to call the DMV; I think they didn't want to break the trust with their patient. We also didn't feel like we could call the DMV because then the FIL would cut us out of his life and there would be no one left to care for mother in law.

Fortunately(?), Father in Law is very motivated by money (he absolutely hates paying for anything) and independence (he'd rather die than be dependent on others). The solution came when he found out how expensive his auto insurance would be due to the various minor accidents (hitting parking lot poles, damaging his car from hitting the back wall of the garage, etc). So it ended up being "his choice."

AND!

We set up as many car services for him as possible. We trained him to use a bare-bones smart phone so he could use Uber, we took him on a test Uber drive, set him up for the Dial-A-Ride services through the city, and eventually took over scheduling his appointments so we or someone else could drive.

My suggestion is to try to find out what motivates your mother and use that to your advantage. If she already has a network of friends, perhaps you can convince them to set up a rotating schedule of, like, every Tuesday at 9am they pick her up and run errands or grab coffee or whatever. She'd see her friends, get out and about, and not drive.

And if you can handle the fallout, by all means contact the DMV yourself. 

[Farrar]

8 minutes ago, Annie G said:

My sister is dad’s POA, and three years ago we had a family meeting to discuss things, including his driving. I’m very vocal that he needs to be evaluated for his driving ability, because I had recently ridden w him and it was terrifying. During the meeting Dad got upset and my sister took his side and said his driving is fine. Since then she mostly drives but he drives himself to buy groceries and go to places like Home Depot. My sister is adamant that he’s only driving places he’s familiar with, but he has cognitive issues due to age and shouldn’t be driving, at least without an evaluation. I recently found out I can send a request to the dmv and I’m contemplating that, knowing that if I do, my sister and father will never speak to me again.  So while making a report to the dmv is the right thing to do, I completely understand how hard the decision is.  (and if you think I’m wrong about how they’ll react, it’s based on history. My brother was going through a divorce and called to tell me he was going to tell his 3 year old son he was never going to see him again. He couldn’t bear to share custody so opted to cut all ties w the kid. I told my brother he was being selfish and not to do it. He hasn’t spoken directly to me in the 18 years since. I am happy to report that after 2 years he did agree to sharing custody) It’s just really hard to do the right thing when it’ll cause you pain.

This is really sad to me and I'm sorry that your family seems to be so black and white about things.

I asked my brother to consider testing and isolating if we wanted us to visit last summer and if he couldn't that would be okay, but we couldn't come visit. He's still not speaking to me and I anticipate that might have been it for us. So I definitely get it.

I don't have any regrets about having done that. It would have been foolish to visit like that without precautions. It would be foolish to let the OP's mother keep driving as well, as painful as this is. In her case, she'll still have POA even if her mother is irrationally angry... and even if she finds out it was her in the first place.

[alisoncooks]

What a tough situation to be in!

I like the combo of 1) helping her get the DL or begin a delayed process, simply to ease her mind, and 2) making her car permanently unavailable to her. 

It totally sucks to have to do these "behind the scenes" manipulations, but they are necessary if she's unable to see the reasoning. Best wishes. 

[Storygirl]

One idea I have not seen mentioned yet is to ask the social worker if she could put the letter from the license bureau in an envelope and send it to YOU. That way, the letter will not be in front of your mom all of the time, reminding her of the issue.

When my mom with Alzheimer's was living with me, she had a period of time when she wanted to see her parents (who were long deceased) and would ask about it incessantly. Eventually I found out that she had a picture of my grandfather stuck in a notebook that she carried with her all of the time, and the photo was a constant reminder that was causing her some stress. I took the picture and put it in a drawer instead.

Since she does not receive much mail, she may be looking at the renewal form constantly, and removing it from her vicinity might help.

I agree with notifying the license bureau. There should be a place locally where she can go to be tested to see if she would still be a safe driver. We've had more than one family member who has gone through the testing. My mom was tested about every six months after her Alzheimer's diagnosis, and they were able to tell my dad when she was no longer safe to drive. Dad actually gave Mom's car to their granddaughter and told Mom that A needed to borrow it for awhile.

I'm sure it's extra hard to deal with this when you live so far away. I think talking to the social worker at the facility, so that there is someone there who will work with you on this issue, is a good idea.

[Annie G]

20 minutes ago, Farrar said:

This is really sad to me and I'm sorry that your family seems to be so black and white about things.

I asked my brother to consider testing and isolating if we wanted us to visit last summer and if he couldn't that would be okay, but we couldn't come visit. He's still not speaking to me and I anticipate that might have been it for us. So I definitely get it.

I don't have any regrets about having done that. It would have been foolish to visit like that without precautions. It would be foolish to let the OP's mother keep driving as well, as painful as this is. In her case, she'll still have POA even if her mother is irrationally angry... and even if she finds out it was her in the first place.

It is sad but I feel really good that I did the right thing for my nephew. Everyone else in our family just said whatever brother wanted to hear. Same with dad- in that meetings, and ever since he knows how I feel about him driving.   My sister knows. It’s hard being honest with him, but I can’t live with myself if he drives and hurts someone. 
I hope your brother comes around. Families sure can be complicated. 

[BusyMom5]

Having watched the police/court taking of the license play out recently,  I think you need to realize that its very dangerous and takes a long time.  First the bad driver has to do something so drastically dangerous - this can be a moving violation or an accident - that the police officer or highway patrolman decides to write a report to the DMV to request a retest and a Dr evaluation.   This then goes to court- so 6-8 weeks from accident to court where this person is legally allowed to drive!  The police told us to keep said person off the road by whatever means possible- disable car, take car to 'repair shop' that takes forever 'ordering parts'.  Once court decides to suspend the license, in our case it was for 1 year, then they can attempt to get it again- Dr evaluation,  written and driving portions.  Of course with dementia person will fail, but they have held onto hope for a year!  And if the car is there, don't expect them to remember that their license is suspended.  Its so complicated!  

In your case I would ask the car repair guy if he will tell your mom its irreparable- yes, it's lying and passing the buck, but if you can get her to agree to sell,  then use the saved money from insurance to Uber or use other transportation- and its her idea- its so much easier than going the court route!  

 

[skimomma]

18 minutes ago, BusyMom5 said:

Having watched the police/court taking of the license play out recently,  I think you need to realize that its very dangerous and takes a long time.  First the bad driver has to do something so drastically dangerous - this can be a moving violation or an accident - that the police officer or highway patrolman decides to write a report to the DMV to request a retest and a Dr evaluation.   This then goes to court- so 6-8 weeks from accident to court where this person is legally allowed to drive!  The police told us to keep said person off the road by whatever means possible- disable car, take car to 'repair shop' that takes forever 'ordering parts'.  Once court decides to suspend the license, in our case it was for 1 year, then they can attempt to get it again- Dr evaluation,  written and driving portions.  Of course with dementia person will fail, but they have held onto hope for a year!  And if the car is there, don't expect them to remember that their license is suspended.  Its so complicated!  

In your case I would ask the car repair guy if he will tell your mom its irreparable- yes, it's lying and passing the buck, but if you can get her to agree to sell,  then use the saved money from insurance to Uber or use other transportation- and its her idea- its so much easier than going the court route!  

 

It looks like in my state that a report to the DMV triggers a retest but nothing about going to court or accessing medical records.  But either way, we are definitely tackling the actual car first.  

[Terabith]

And yet, with all the difficulties in getting licenses taken away from people who shouldn't drive, I lost my license for six months after being hospitalized for depression.

I've never had an accident, and the only moving violation I've had in my life was for making a left hand turn at 4:02 pm when it was illegal between 4-7 pm.  

Six months.  For depression.  I have to have a formal doctor's evaluation regularly (currently every two years) to maintain my license.  

[Annie G]

Terabith, that’s just so wrong. I’m sorry. 

[prairiewindmomma]

3 hours ago, Seasider too said:

I get it. We had to give my mom fake keys. A proper lady wasn’t put together unless she had her wallet, car keys, Kleenex and lipstick in her purse. We provided all of that and she carried it everywhere. Regularly restocked it with quarters for vending machines. She felt equipped and comforted by it. 
 

For those who haven’t already read my oft-repeated recommendation, if you are entering into the years of caring for an elder with memory issues, get yourself a copy of The 36 Hour Day. It’s a great guidebook. 

This. Fake keys are a good tip.

I disabled a car for several days (unhooked the battery, pulled a spark plug) until we got agreement from other extended family that we could sell it. 

Not having a license does not mean someone will stop driving.

[Bootsie]

Is there some other way of framing this with her?  I had an aunt who was not in good shape to drive.  She was finally convinced to give her car to a nephew who "really needed the car".  She was so glad that she was able to help out and that the car was going to be of use to someone.  She thought her car was something very special to hold onto, so making her feel like it was important did the trick.  

[skimomma]

14 hours ago, Bootsie said:

Is there some other way of framing this with her?  I had an aunt who was not in good shape to drive.  She was finally convinced to give her car to a nephew who "really needed the car".  She was so glad that she was able to help out and that the car was going to be of use to someone.  She thought her car was something very special to hold onto, so making her feel like it was important did the trick.  

This, unfortunately, is 100% about independence and I very much understand that.  This has been a long and difficult few years.  Because we are not close, I did not step in to help until WELL after things were a huge mess.  Each piece of independence that she has had to relinquish has been very hard for her.  This is just one more BIG thing.  She is very (or at least was, pre-Covid) very active in her church and used to visiting friends and family on a daily basis.  She was gone so much from her facility that the nurses had a hard time keeping her meds on track.  Since I don't live there to help her get around, most of her friends are also giving up their driving, and she is so affected by dementia that public transit or even taxis are out of the question, no longer driving is a huge blow.  Short of moving her here, which she is adamantly opposed to (and will be the next battle when she completely runs out of money), there is very little I can do to make this better for her.  

This is not at all about the car itself.  We have talked about the fact that her doctors have told her no more driving, and each time she smugly told me that if I "took her car away" she would just go lease a new one.   This is not financially possible (she would never ever pass a credit check) and I doubt she could even start and drive a modern car out of the lot.  But she does not recognize those barriers.  So, she is not at all worried about the car.  She fully plans to procure a new one.  It is the DL she is focussed on because she does recognize that this is the thing that really could stop her driving for good.  She does not remember conversations from one day to the next or even within a single phone call, so even if she was happier that the car was "helping someone," she would not remember just minutes later.   

This is all so hard.  We have put the steps in place but have not broken it to her yet.  It is going to be a very long few weeks, I'm afraid.  As much as I dread it, no longer having to fret about her safety, the safety of others, and the risk of her getting lost will be a huge improvement to my mental health.  This worry has weighed very heavily on me for years now.

[Bootsie]

I am so sorry that you are going through this.  It is all so difficult.  I hope the next few weeks go smoothly.