COVID-positive wrestlers (kids) and a question about this

[Ginevra]

Dh told me today about a friend’s sons, who tested positive for COVID. They wrestle on a community team (i.e., not school) and dh speculates they got it from wrestling. But I did not think any of these leagues were permitted to meet right now; I thought they were under restrictions. Maybe it’s something like: as long as it’s less than ten participants or some similar useless nonsense. Wrestling is one sport that has no possibility of playing without risk of transmission, if someone is carrying. 

 

[MoyaPechal]

Some counties in my area are allowing wrestling teams to meet. It's crazy. Ours is not.

[regentrude]

Our highschool team is wrestling. I just checked their fb page. It's insane.

My DS is a judoka and has not trained since March.

Edited December 16, 2020 by regentrude

[Dmmetler]

Here, some club sports are using the fact that gyms are allowed to be open, even if youth sports are restricted. It seems a very bad idea to me. 

[MercyA]

Sports is king in northern Indiana, and the wrestlers in our small town (from elementary through high school) are still wrestling. They're even advertising a local wrestling camp. So, so irresponsible. They are limiting spectators, and I guess that makes them feel better. 

This in spite of the fact that our local high school switched to virtual not long ago because there were not enough well teachers OR subs to teach the elementary kids. (Apparently they moved some of the high school teachers to the elementary school temporarily.) Also, they keep sending home this grade or another for a few weeks at a time due to exposures.

The mind, it boggles.

Edited December 16, 2020 by MercyA

[SKL]

Here, I believe they were practicing, but I don't think they had meets.

I don't think it's that simple to figure out the balance between health benefits of "social distancing" vs. health benefits of kids doing sports.  I do think that teens and parents go into it knowing there is a risk of transmission, and accepting that risk.  From what I have seen and heard, the physical and emotional risks for kids not having the outlets of sports / similar activities is high - for some families, higher than the risk of Covid exposure.  So as long as the families are careful about protecting more physically vulnerable people, I think it's a valid choice to engage in sports - even contact sports.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, SKL said:

Here, I believe they were practicing, but I don't think they had meets.

I don't think it's that simple to figure out the balance between health benefits of "social distancing" vs. health benefits of kids doing sports.  I do think that teens and parents go into it knowing there is a risk of transmission, and accepting that risk.  From what I have seen and heard, the physical and emotional risks for kids not having the outlets of sports / similar activities is high - for some families, higher than the risk of Covid exposure.  So as long as the families are careful about protecting more physically vulnerable people, I think it's a valid choice to engage in sports - even contact sports.

I disagree. I think it is hard/impossible to fully protect vulnerable populations if we (society) are blasé about kids and teens getting the virus. The more the virus circulates, the harder it is to protect the vulnerable. Two of my friends just lost elderly parents due to “Thanksgiving COVID.” They were determined to gather for Thanksgiving and the 80+ crowd got sick and died. 

I say this as a “sport parent” who had kids in sports at least two seasons per year from the time they were 3/4 yos to 18/19. But youngest is not doing sports this year and is not signed up for sports next year. It’s a bummer but I think there are some sports that we (society) should simply refrain from doing right now and wrestling is one of them. 

[regentrude]

17 minutes ago, SKL said:

I don't think it's that simple to figure out the balance between health benefits of "social distancing" vs. health benefits of kids doing sports.  I do think that teens and parents go into it knowing there is a risk of transmission, and accepting that risk.  From what I have seen and heard, the physical and emotional risks for kids not having the outlets of sports / similar activities is high - for some families, higher than the risk of Covid exposure.  So as long as the families are careful about protecting more physically vulnerable people, I think it's a valid choice to engage in sports - even contact sports.

Do these families cut out all other social interactions, consequently mask and distance on unavoidable errands and at work? I highly doubt that.

How can you "accept the risk of transmission"? How can you possibly accept that you may kill a person you come in contact with?

My DS's life is martial arts. He has not set foot in the dojo since March because that's irresponsible.

Edited December 16, 2020 by regentrude

[SKL]

3 minutes ago, Quill said:

I disagree. I think it is hard/impossible to fully protect vulnerable populations if we (society) are blasé about kids and teens getting the virus. The more the virus circulates, the harder it is to protect the vulnerable. Two of my friends just lost elderly parents due to “Thanksgiving COVID.” They were determined to gather for Thanksgiving and the 80+ crowd got sick and died. 

I say this as a “sport parent” who had kids in sports at least two seasons per year from the time they were 3/4 yos to 18/19. But youngest is not doing sports this year and is not signed up for sports next year. It’s a bummer but I think there are some sports that we (society) should simply refrain from doing right now and wrestling is one of them. 

There are many thousands of cases and many deaths that do not trace back to kids' sports.  I am not sure how many severe cases / deaths have been traced back to kids' sports.  But the reality is that this virus is spreading regardless of kids' sports.  Mental health crises are also ballooning.  It's just not as simple as some people want it to be.

But of course you are free to disagree.

[SKL]

One of my kids' best friends has been expressing constant suicidal feelings for the past week or so.  This is no joke.

[historically accurate]

30 minutes ago, SKL said:

There are many thousands of cases and many deaths that do not trace back to kids' sports.  I am not sure how many severe cases / deaths have been traced back to kids' sports.  But the reality is that this virus is spreading regardless of kids' sports.  Mental health crises are also ballooning.  It's just not as simple as some people want it to be.

But of course you are free to disagree.

Note I have a teen who has not done TKD in 10 months AND spent 3 weeks in a psych hospital for suicidal ideation this year. 

The bolded above is why kids' sports that are not safely distanced can't be done. The virus is spreading - why would we do things that spread it more?

 

Edited December 16, 2020 by historically accurate

[Frances]

5 minutes ago, SKL said:

There are many thousands of cases and many deaths that do not trace back to kids' sports.  I am not sure how many severe cases / deaths have been traced back to kids' sports.  But the reality is that this virus is spreading regardless of kids' sports.  Mental health crises are also ballooning.  It's just not as simple as some people want it to be.

But of course you are free to disagree.

But there can be compromises. My husband wrestled for ten years in a wrestling crazy state. Wrestlers have to be in top physical condition. Running, weight lifting, other conditioning exercises could still be done, even likely as a team with safety guidelines in place, without the actual physical contact of wrestling. Surely that would have much the same mental health benefits as actually wrestling.

Edited December 16, 2020 by Frances

[SKL]

12 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Do these families cut out all other social interactions, consequently mask and distance on unavoidable errands and at work? I highly doubt that.

How can you "accept the risk of transmission"? How can you possibly accept that you may kill a person you come in contact with?

My DS's life is martial arts. He has not set foot in the dojo since March because that's irresponsible.

By "accept the risk of transmission," I meant they accept that they may catch the bug, and need to act like they might have caught it.  (Which, personally, I think everyone needs to act like they have it, because asymptomatic cases are so common.  As I've been saying since March.)

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, SKL said:

There are many thousands of cases and many deaths that do not trace back to kids' sports.  I am not sure how many severe cases / deaths have been traced back to kids' sports.  But the reality is that this virus is spreading regardless of kids' sports.  Mental health crises are also ballooning.  It's just not as simple as some people want it to be.

But of course you are free to disagree.

Well, that’s where we have to get creative. We don’t just throw up our hands and say, “my kid has to wrestle or he’s going to take his own life.” We adjust. We find other ways to exercise.* Over the course of one’s life, there are many instances where a person is prevented from engaging in the activities he or she feels are necessary for their best mental health. It is those who adapt to new circumstances who thrive. I think we have to help our kids get to that. Then, when they are adults, hopefully they won’t say silly things like, “Well, I’ll be damned if I’m giving up Thanksgiving this year just because of this silly virus!” 

*I say this though I have had concerns about my kid’s mental health due to isolation and close to zero “real” social interaction. 

[Frances]

1 minute ago, SKL said:

By "accept the risk of transmission," I meant they accept that they may catch the bug, and need to act like they might have caught it.  (Which, personally, I think everyone needs to act like they have it, because asymptomatic cases are so common.  As I've been saying since March.)

But how can you safely wrestle while acting like you have the virus in order to not cause transmission? If someone is going to act as you recommend that would seem to preclude engaging in a very close contact sport like wrestling.

[regentrude]

16 minutes ago, SKL said:

One of my kids' best friends has been expressing constant suicidal feelings for the past week or so.  This is no joke.

Absolutely not a joke. the mental health toll is very very real. And those kids need help and an outlet for their physical energies.

But I do not buy that the only way to avoid mental health harm for the kids is to exercise by doing a contact sport.

[SKL]

1 minute ago, Quill said:

Well, that’s where we have to get creative. We don’t just throw up our hands and say, “my kid has to wrestle or he’s going to take his own life.” We adjust. We find other ways to exercise.* Over the course of one’s life, there are many instances where a person is prevented from engaging in the activities he or she feels are necessary for their best mental health. It is those who adapt to new circumstances who thrive. I think we have to help our kids get to that. Then, when they are adults, hopefully they won’t say silly things like, “Well, I’ll be damned if I’m giving up Thanksgiving this year just because of this silly virus!” 

*I say this though I have had concerns about my kid’s mental health due to isolation and close to zero “real” social interaction. 

Yeah, kids who can adapt are going to thrive.  Sure.  So screw the kids who can't.

"We have to help our kids get to that."  That sounds wonderful.  My kid's mental illness is not that easy to manipulate.  I wish it was.

I didn't say anything about Thanksgiving here.  I'm talking about acknowledging, weighing, and respecting - not denying - various real risks.

[Katy]

The thing is, if kids eat lunch together in an indoor cafeteria it doesn’t much matter if they play sports or not. The virus will spread. We’ve apparently decided that’s more important than waiting for a vaccine.  If I was a single parent with healthy children I’d probably have a much different opinion about that than I currently do, so I’m trying to reserve judgment.

It’s an airborne virus. A kid is much more likely to get it at lunch with hundreds of other kids in the room, or in choir practice than they are wrestling one other kid, or even the two they practice with and the 1 they wrestle for sport. 

[Katy]

Also I think basketball is more dangerous than wrestling. 

[jen3kids]

There was a big wrestling tournament in Southern PA a few weeks ago - no masks, no social distancing by parents or teams when watching.  This was at a huge multi-sport facility when there was also a basketball and indoor field hockey tournaments being played the same day.   The parents that I know said the only group that was wearing masks and social distancing were the indoor field hockey group.   

[historically accurate]

47 minutes ago, Katy said:

The thing is, if kids eat lunch together in an indoor cafeteria it doesn’t much matter if they play sports or not. The virus will spread. We’ve apparently decided that’s more important than waiting for a vaccine.  If I was a single parent with healthy children I’d probably have a much different opinion about that than I currently do, so I’m trying to reserve judgment.

It’s an airborne virus. A kid is much more likely to get it at lunch with hundreds of other kids in the room, or in choir practice than they are wrestling one other kid, or even the two they practice with and the 1 they wrestle for sport. 

This is where I keep going back to the budget idea. If a kid is in the cafeteria every day then maybe don't add the possibility of passing it or getting it from wrestling as well. We are doing almost nothing except doctor appointments because we have so many. 

[BakersDozen]

Wrestling is in full swing here with this in place: "Masks must be worn while not on the mat but will not be worn while on the mat. No handshakes, etc."

Makes sense to me. Especially since so many other things where students would not touch each other are not taking place. I mean cancel a crucial test with maybe 10-15 students in a huge room/cafeteria for sure but wrestling? Basketball? Football?? Perish the thought! (sarcasm)

[happi duck]

If the risk absolutely stayed with the person taking the risk then fine...take the risk even if I don't agree BUT that isn't how this works!!

I intimately understand mental health issues and the current danger.  We have to find creative alternatives.

[Tenaj]

1 hour ago, Frances said:

But how can you safely wrestle while acting like you have the virus in order to not cause transmission? If someone is going to act as you recommend that would seem to preclude engaging in a very close contact sport like wrestling.

Not wrestling here, but basketball is in full swing and one of my sons is attending a school who is taking few precautions.  So, what we have done is that he does absolutely nothing but school and basketball.  That's it.  No getting together with friends, no seeing grandparents, not even seeing his nieces or his adult siblings (he's seen them once in the past two months). 

He made the decision and knew that he was going to be treated as exposed.  Right now is the safest he has been so he is meeting his brothers for a basketball game on Saturday.  Basketball practice begins again on Monday so we're trying to figure out Christmas.  Everyone in our family knows he has high exposure because of his sport. 

That's the safest we can make it.  We know we have to be more cautious because we are allowing basketball.  I realize that a lot of people have probably not thought it all the way through but I'm sure there are many like us who have made conscience decisions and trade-offs for sports participation.

And, no, it's not full-proof. Quarantined for the past two weeks because of school and basketball.  

[katilac]

 

1 hour ago, Katy said:

Also I think basketball is more dangerous than wrestling. 

How so? I'm not athletic, so my opinion is formed by looking at wrestling matches vs basketball games, and thinking that the wrestlers are breathing on top of each other for much longer periods of time. 

[Frances]

25 minutes ago, JanOH said:

Not wrestling here, but basketball is in full swing and one of my sons is attending a school who is taking few precautions.  So, what we have done is that he does absolutely nothing but school and basketball.  That's it.  No getting together with friends, no seeing grandparents, not even seeing his nieces or his adult siblings (he's seen them once in the past two months). 

He made the decision and knew that he was going to be treated as exposed.  Right now is the safest he has been so he is meeting his brothers for a basketball game on Saturday.  Basketball practice begins again on Monday so we're trying to figure out Christmas.  Everyone in our family knows he has high exposure because of his sport. 

That's the safest we can make it.  We know we have to be more cautious because we are allowing basketball.  I realize that a lot of people have probably not thought it all the way through but I'm sure there are many like us who have made conscience decisions and trade-offs for sports participation.

And, no, it's not full-proof. Quarantined for the past two weeks because of school and basketball.  

I think what you are doing sounds great. But I’m guessing you are in the minority.

[katilac]

36 minutes ago, JanOH said:

Basketball practice begins again on Monday so we're trying to figure out Christmas.  Everyone in our family knows he has high exposure because of his sport. 

Christmas is next Friday and they're starting practice up again on the Monday? Come on, people! 

[Tenaj]

29 minutes ago, katilac said:

Christmas is next Friday and they're starting practice up again on the Monday? Come on, people! 

I know, I know!  I'm not happy about that at all but they've been off since the 4th and they have games that first week of January.  They may change plans again.  They've been changing the schedule almost daily.

[2squared]

40 minutes ago, katilac said:

 

How so? I'm not athletic, so my opinion is formed by looking at wrestling matches vs basketball games, and thinking that the wrestlers are breathing on top of each other for much longer periods of time. 

Wrestling matches last a maximum of six minutes, with they are 1:1 contact, and every match is already contact traced. If one wrestler has an exposure during competition, only two people are Potentially impacted, assuming other precautions are taken...although the exposure period is far less than 15 minutes of close contact. At our practices, Wrestlers are separated into 2-man practice partners, and then two sets of 2-man practice partners are combined into 4-man pods. Both sets are predetermined by the coaches based on weight, skills, etc - so 100% traceability.  An exposure at practice would impact four people, assuming other precautions are taken. 

Basketball is nearly an hour of heavy breathing over both teams. If one basketball player has exposure, both teams are potentially impacted. The kids aren’t separated at practice either. In fact, at our school, squads are combined since gym space is limited. 

Also, wrestling already has health screening protocols in place for every athlete at every practice and competition. Adding Covid protocols would just be a simple extension. 

My kids participate in both sports. I am far more worried about basketball than wrestling. 

[Katy]

1 hour ago, katilac said:

 

How so? I'm not athletic, so my opinion is formed by looking at wrestling matches vs basketball games, and thinking that the wrestlers are breathing on top of each other for much longer periods of time. 

Because it's airborne, not droplet. Kids practice wrestling against 1-2 kids who are roughly in their weight class, or 1 class above or below them.  They then wrestle once a week against one other kid, which even if there are numerous pauses for some reason, is less than 10 minutes.  The exposure is low.  Also, there's generally only 1 match per week.  Then after every match someone sprays down the mat from waist high, so any remaining virus on the mat is going to be killed. 

Kids on a basketball team run and breathe heavy all over the other team for the entire game.  They often have multiple games per week, and there are kids subbing in and out, so at every game probably 30 people's germs mix and match, even assuming they're wearing a decent mask.  And high school basketball around here typically involves 2, possibly 3 games per week, not one match against one stranger. And frequently those same kids are ALSO in other sports conditioning programs around town, increasing their exposure from more than just school.

23 minutes ago, 2squared said:

Wrestling matches last a maximum of six minutes, with they are 1:1 contact, and every match is already contact traced. If one wrestler has an exposure during competition, only two people are Potentially impacted, assuming other precautions are taken...although the exposure period is far less than 15 minutes of close contact. At our practices, Wrestlers are separated into 2-man practice partners, and then two sets of 2-man practice partners are combined into 4-man pods. Both sets are predetermined by the coaches based on weight, skills, etc - so 100% traceability.  An exposure at practice would impact four people, assuming other precautions are taken. 

Basketball is nearly an hour of heavy breathing over both teams. If one basketball player has exposure, both teams are potentially impacted. The kids aren’t separated at practice either. In fact, at our school, squads are combined since gym space is limited. 

Also, wrestling already has health screening protocols in place for every athlete at every practice and competition. Adding Covid protocols would just be a simple extension. 

My kids participate in both sports. I am far more worried about basketball than wrestling. 

This.  She said it better than I could.

Also, college basketball has been far worse than other sports thus far.

[Amy Gen]

3 hours ago, Frances said:

But there can be compromises. My husband wrestled for ten years in a wrestling crazy state. Wrestlers have to be in top physical condition. Running, weight lifting, other conditioning exercises could still be done, even likely as a team with safety guidelines in place, without the actual physical contact of wrestling. Surely that would have much the same mental health benefits as actually wrestling

This is what I see the water polo teams doing. They still have practice, but they run or tread water distanced one to a lane. They aren’t having matches. 

[2squared]

29 minutes ago, Katy said:

Because it's airborne, not droplet. Kids practice wrestling against 1-2 kids who are roughly in their weight class, or 1 class above or below them.  They then wrestle once a week against one other kid, which even if there are numerous pauses for some reason, is less than 10 minutes.  The exposure is low.  Also, there's generally only 1 match per week.  Then after every match someone sprays down the mat from waist high, so any remaining virus on the mat is going to be killed. 

Kids on a basketball team run and breathe heavy all over the other team for the entire game.  They often have multiple games per week, and there are kids subbing in and out, so at every game probably 30 people's germs mix and match, even assuming they're wearing a decent mask.  And high school basketball around here typically involves 2, possibly 3 games per week, not one match against one stranger. And frequently those same kids are ALSO in other sports conditioning programs around town, increasing their exposure from more than just school.

This.  She said it better than I could.

Also, college basketball has been far worse than other sports thus far.

To add to the health screenings, mats are disinfected after every practice and competition. Wrestlers shower immediately after every practice and competition. Our coaching staff washes the singlets after every match. 

I think Wrestling is the sport the other should emulate. I can tell who my kids have wrestled at every match since 7th grade (recorded on Trackwrestling for anyone to see), and our youth wrestling coaches tracked every match from PreK-6th grade. Wrestlers have dealt with communicable skin diseases since the beginning of time, so the sport has already put into place most of the public health safeguards recommended for Covid. 

[vonfirmath]

40 minutes ago, Katy said:

Because it's airborne, not droplet. Kids practice wrestling against 1-2 kids who are roughly in their weight class, or 1 class above or below them.  They then wrestle once a week against one other kid, which even if there are numerous pauses for some reason, is less than 10 minutes.  The exposure is low.  Also, there's generally only 1 match per week.  Then after every match someone sprays down the mat from waist high, so any remaining virus on the mat is going to be killed. 

 

Woah. I'd heard it was droplet, not airborne.

 

[Katy]

15 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

Woah. I'd heard it was droplet, not airborne.

 

Chinese scientists said it was Airborne in February and confirmed with additional studies in early March I think. It was covered in the Covid thread here.  US authorities started to whisper to the media in August.  CDC confirmed airborne Oct 5th.

CDC initially claimed airborne transmission was rare because they don't want to institute full airborne pathogen protocol, because that involves a whole different scale of treatment involving negative pressure hospital rooms that we cannot replicate at scale.  While every hospital has rooms for airborne pathogens for treating people with suspected TB, we don't have them at the scale required for this level of contagion. To my knowledge most studies since have found it breaks down rapidly on surfaces but is highly contagious by air.  It also lingers in the air for much longer than typical droplet diseases.  This is why choir practices and church services are deadly and why children eating in school cafeterias is more dangerous than masked children playing sports.

To be clear, nursing practice for airborne diseases is very different than for droplet diseases, where you are thought to be okay if you are standing at least 6-10 feet from someone with say, influenza.

[kokotg]

22 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

Woah. I'd heard it was droplet, not airborne.

 

That's what the CDC said at first; now they say it can also be transmitted through aerosols under some circumstances, like in enclosed spaces: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/scientific-brief-sars-cov-2.html

Honestly, I think it was clear pretty early on that was true, based on actual evidence of when and where transmission was occurring. 

[wathe]

28 minutes ago, vonfirmath said:

Woah. I'd heard it was droplet, not airborne.

 

It's both.  Mostly droplet, sometimes airborne.  Airborne transmission is more likely in crowded, poorly ventilated spaces.

It's definitely not super-contagious via airborne spread the way measles or chickenpox are.

My hospital (and every other hospital in the province) is still treating is as droplet,  unless HCP are engaging in an aerosol generating procedure, then we use airborne precautions.  HCP infection rate from work remains zero at my hospital, despite hundreds (maybe thousands) of hours of covid-positive patient care with droplet precautions only (surgical mask, not N95).

 

Edited for clarity

Edited December 17, 2020 by wathe

[Katy]

1 minute ago, kokotg said:

That's what the CDC said at first; now they say it can also be transmitted through aerosols under some circumstances, like in enclosed spaces: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/scientific-brief-sars-cov-2.html

Honestly, I think it was clear pretty early on that was true, based on actual evidence of when and where transmission was occurring. 

Yes, when that choir in Oregon had a socially distant indoor choir practice and most of them came down with Covid it was pretty clear then that the Chinese scientists had to be right.  But again, there are huge treatment implications with airborne pathogens that we were not prepared for, so they treated it like the flu instead of like TB.

[wathe]

2 minutes ago, wathe said:

It's both.  Mostly droplet, sometimes airborne.  Airborne transmission is more likely in crowded, poorly ventilated spaces.

It's definitely not super-contagious via airborne spread the way measles or chickenpox are.

My hospital (and every other hospital in the province) is still treating is as droplet,  unless HCP are engaging in an aerosol generating procedure, then we use airborne precautions.  HCP infection rate from work remains zero at my hospital, despite hundreds (maybe thousands) of hours of covid-positive patient care with droplet precautions only (surgical mask, not N95).

 

Edited for clarity

I should say that for AGMP, we use modified airborne precautions - we don't necessarily move to a negative pressure room.  We use a regular room, with the door closed.   Negative pressure would be ideal, but we do not have the resources.  Something like measles would require negative pressure.

[kokotg]

27 minutes ago, kand said:

This has gotten a lot of press in the past week and has been shared on other threads, but this case study from a Korean restaurant might be relevant here. Demonstrates a young diner catching it after spending just five minutes in the restaurant with an infected person seated 20 feet away: https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2020/12/15/this-is-how-quickly-covid-19-can-spread-in-a-restaurant-per-new-study/?sh=574883741fe4

(The actual study is easily found as well, but this was an easily accessible link)

This also demonstrates that South Korean contact tracing is AMAZING.

[MoyaPechal]

5 hours ago, Frances said:

But how can you safely wrestle while acting like you have the virus in order to not cause transmission? If someone is going to act as you recommend that would seem to preclude engaging in a very close contact sport like wrestling.

Exactly, it's not like soccer where you're outside. I wouldn't feel comfortable with soccer right now, either, but there's a different between soccer/golf/tennis and a sport where you're literally on top of each other and indoors.

[regentrude]

10 hours ago, JanOH said:

Not wrestling here, but basketball is in full swing and one of my sons is attending a school who is taking few precautions.  So, what we have done is that he does absolutely nothing but school and basketball.  That's it.  No getting together with friends, no seeing grandparents, not even seeing his nieces or his adult siblings (he's seen them once in the past two months).

But what about you parents? Since he could bring it home from sports, the same restrictions would need to apply to all household members. I cannot imagine how one does this, especially if someone has to go to work.

Edited December 17, 2020 by regentrude

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, regentrude said:

But what about you parents? Since he could bring it home from sports, the same restrictions would need to apply to all household members. I cannot imagine how one does this, especially if someone has to go to work.

That’s what I think. Everyone I know of who has had COVID, there is a chain of infection that starts from the person engaging in the most risk. 

I have had wrestlers before and dh was a state champ many moons ago. I would not even *enter* a building with wrestling going on currently. Not only are the participants exerting effort in full bodily contact, but the coaches and parents are yelling from the sidelines. Are all the parents masked? Not to pigeonhole, but I would bet money that many wrestling parents I know would also resist masking if enforcement isn’t happening. If they are masked at all, I’m betting it’s more neck gaiters and bandanas than well-fitting masks. 

[Tenaj]

1 hour ago, regentrude said:

But what about you parents? Since he could bring it home from sports, the same restrictions would need to apply to all household members. I cannot imagine how one does this, especially if someone has to go to work.

You're right, it's not perfect. But we are doing the absolute best that we can.  

[2squared]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

That’s what I think. Everyone I know of who has had COVID, there is a chain of infection that starts from the person engaging in the most risk. 

I have had wrestlers before and dh was a state champ many moons ago. I would not even *enter* a building with wrestling going on currently. Not only are the participants exerting effort in full bodily contact, but the coaches and parents are yelling from the sidelines. Are all the parents masked? Not to pigeonhole, but I would bet money that many wrestling parents I know would also resist masking if enforcement isn’t happening. If they are masked at all, I’m betting it’s more neck gaiters and bandanas than well-fitting masks. 

Since our state only allows two spectators/athlete at high school sporting events and masks are required at all times, I am certain protocols are being followed. 

winter sports haven’t been allowed to start yet, but many of our wrestlers are practicing in barns and garages. My son has a practice partner, and they practice in the same garage as another Practice partner set. It’s not a perfect situation, but this is the decision we made, given our specific situation. 

[regentrude]

2 hours ago, Quill said:

I have had wrestlers before and dh was a state champ many moons ago. I would not even *enter* a building with wrestling going on currently. Not only are the participants exerting effort in full bodily contact, but the coaches and parents are yelling from the sidelines. Are all the parents masked? Not to pigeonhole, but I would bet money that many wrestling parents I know would also resist masking if enforcement isn’t happening. If they are masked at all, I’m betting it’s more neck gaiters and bandanas than well-fitting masks. 

I have seen video of our high school wrestling meet when I checked for this thread. I saw no social distancing and barely any masks. Far from the above scenario of carefully isolated two person matches.

[cintinative]

There was an article floating around here in Ohio. Wrestling is allowed but they are not allowed to shake hands. LOL. It makes no sense. 

ETA: article: https://www.wlwt.com/article/ohsaa-coronavirus-rules-students-can-wrestle-but-cant-shake-hands/34874133

Edited December 17, 2020 by cintinative

[Tenaj]

13 minutes ago, cintinative said:

There was an article floating around here in Ohio. Wrestling is allowed but they are not allowed to shake hands. LOL. It makes no sense. 

ETA: article: https://www.wlwt.com/article/ohsaa-coronavirus-rules-students-can-wrestle-but-cant-shake-hands/34874133

I saw that and wondered if the no shaking hands rule fell into the wrestling rules from general sports rather than specifically wrestling.  I guess it's one less contact . . .

Edited December 17, 2020 by JanOH
Spelling error

[Happy2BaMom]

1 hour ago, JanOH said:

I saw that and wondered if the no shaking hands rule fell into the wrestling rules from general sports rather than specifically wrestling.  I guess it's one less contact . . .

What's funny </s> is that one is far less likely to catch Covid from a handshake than sharing any kind of physical space with someone. Not that I'm arguing for shaking hands (certainly not), but if you're frickin' *wrestling* with someone, which involves all sorts of touch AND breathing on each other, not shaking hands is.....laughable. (note: this is not aimed at you, JanOH, just at the stated rules).

Reading this thread reminds me that we are *still* in for a long haul with this virus, as it will be at least several months before vaccines are out to the mass population, and that assumes people are willing to participate.

And God forbid that the next pandemic which hits (& there will be another one, since we've turned earth into one giant Petri dish) has a 5% death rate. Or higher. I'm not sure we could even begin to organize an appropriate response in the country.

 

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Happy2BaMom

[ktgrok]

When the pandemic was at its highest here in my area people were posting in homeschool groups asking where they could find a homeschool wrestling team. It's mind boggling. 

[ktgrok]

17 hours ago, SKL said:

From what I have seen and heard, the physical and emotional risks for kids not having the outlets of sports / similar activities is high - for some families, higher than the risk of Covid exposure. 

It is hard for me to believe that we have enough teens who will be suicidal if they don't get to wrestle (vs other exercise) to field full teams. There are lower risk ways to get physical activity. 

16 hours ago, Frances said:

But there can be compromises. My husband wrestled for ten years in a wrestling crazy state. Wrestlers have to be in top physical condition. Running, weight lifting, other conditioning exercises could still be done, even likely as a team with safety guidelines in place, without the actual physical contact of wrestling. Surely that would have much the same mental health benefits as actually wrestling.

Exactly. 

Also there is cross country running, zoom conditioning classes could be done with calistenics, etc. Heck I'm taking live streamed yoga classes 3-4 days a week right now - some on facebook, some on zoom. Kids could be doing a zoom conditioning class plus outdoor running, taking turns with limited people in the weight room, etc. 

16 hours ago, Quill said:

Well, that’s where we have to get creative. We don’t just throw up our hands and say, “my kid has to wrestle or he’s going to take his own life.” We adjust. We find other ways to exercise.* Over the course of one’s life, there are many instances where a person is prevented from engaging in the activities he or she feels are necessary for their best mental health. It is those who adapt to new circumstances who thrive. I think we have to help our kids get to that.

Right!

16 hours ago, SKL said:

Yeah, kids who can adapt are going to thrive.  Sure.  So screw the kids who can't.

"We have to help our kids get to that."  That sounds wonderful.  My kid's mental illness is not that easy to manipulate.  I wish it was.

I didn't say anything about Thanksgiving here.  I'm talking about acknowledging, weighing, and respecting - not denying - various real risks.

Ok, but again, are we saying that every wrestler competing right now would be in an inpatient setting or physically damaged if they chose another exercise outlet? I don't think so. The vast majority of kids can find another way and we as adults need to help them. Or others will die. 

14 hours ago, JanOH said:

Not wrestling here, but basketball is in full swing and one of my sons is attending a school who is taking few precautions.  So, what we have done is that he does absolutely nothing but school and basketball.  That's it.  No getting together with friends, no seeing grandparents, not even seeing his nieces or his adult siblings (he's seen them once in the past two months). 

 

Right, and I'm glad, but unless everyone in the house is doing that, and everyone in every other household of every player there is no way to "protect the vulnerable" and have things like this. The rest of the household can spread it even if the student stays home. 

4 hours ago, regentrude said:

But what about you parents? Since he could bring it home from sports, the same restrictions would need to apply to all household members. I cannot imagine how one does this, especially if someone has to go to work.

Right. It's why we don't see my parents - my son is working outside the house, so we have to act as if all of us are working outside the house.