What can we, as individual US citizens do to improve the division (non-political)

[Not_a_Number]

4 minutes ago, marbel said:

Oh, OK then.

Uhm, the rest of my post wasn't irrelevant, and I don't like it having been snipped like that, lol. 

Anyway, please don't quote me again tonight? I really do want to be off. 

[Mommalongadingdong]

The thread should be shut down. There aren't supposed to be political threads, that's precisely what this is and what its turned into and always will. 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, Mommalongadingdong said:

The thread should be shut down. There aren't supposed to be political threads, that's precisely what this is and what its turned into and always will. 

I don't think this thread is intended to be political. You may perhaps argue that we can't HAVE these conversations without some specifics, but it's better to have these conversations WITHOUT specifics than not to have them at all, OK? 

[Guest]

Mommalongadingdong, please stop. Your posts are unhelpful. 

This is not a political post. It was started out of deep concern for the future of my country. You can care about this country without every once mentioning a political candidate, political party, who you vote for, what you vote for, and what policy issues you support or oppose. 

My mama always told me if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all. 

[Sneezyone]

24 minutes ago, Junie said:

Yes, if someone I know talked to me about their safety I would absolutely consider changing my vote (or at least not voting for Candidate X).

I have been attending a Spanish church service for the past year.  We have never talked politics, but if any of them had told me "please don't vote for Candidate X because I fear for my safety" I would have absolutely considered that.

I know this language did not go over well in the other thread but I think it’s worthwhile to consider whether all of the people you (generic) consider friends feel safe enough to tell you how they really feel. So many of our interactions are superficial at best, never getting to these core issues of fear and vulnerability. Not only that, many people are only tangentially related/connected to people for whom these issues are more real. 
 

ETA: there was a post in an earlier thread that featured a plumber being asked by his client, in her home, about his politics. It was posted as an example of ‘See!! we can all agree/get along!’ The person who posted it never considered the inherent power imbalance between those two people or the inappropriateness of using that film footage to indicate some deeper trend/meaning. That’s what I mean by safety. It was a feel good moment extracted from a small business owner who needs to satisfy the customer.

Edited November 9, 2020 by Sneezyone

[hopeallgoeswell]

9 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

See, this is where things get tricky. Any opinion? You should never get offended? Not shouting down, yes, I agree with that. But perhaps sometimes it's worth getting offended. 

But who gets to choose what is offensive?  Who is the person who gets to decide that X can be thought/said but not Y?  I don't ever get offended because in this country, people are all over the place: different religions, different cultures, etc.  What one finds offensive might just be commonplace for another person.  

Now, I sometimes think to myself, "I have tried to talk to this person and he/she isn't being logical/respectful.  This conversation is not getting either of us anywhere," and I try steering the conversation to neutral waters to end it on a good note.  Some people are just blockheads and me getting offended is a waste of my time and energy.

[Not_a_Number]

5 minutes ago, hopeallgoeswell said:

But who gets to choose what is offensive?  Who is the person who gets to decide that X can be thought/said but not Y? 

You do. You get to figure out what things are sufficiently important principles that you get offended when someone speaks out against them. And it's nonsense that we aren't ever supposed to get offended. I can give lots of examples of points of view that would shock and offend you. You might argue that those are outrageous, and I might argue that some of the things you aren't choosing to be offended by are also outrageous. 

Now, back to not being quoted? 😉 Please? I'll be back. 

[Junie]

3 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

I know this language did not go over well in the other thread but I think it’s worthwhile to consider whether all of the people you (generic) consider friends feel safe enough to tell you how they really feel. So many of our interactions are superficial at best, never getting to these core issues of fear and vulnerability. Not only that, many people are only tangentially related/connected to people for whom these issues are more real.

Yes, you are correct.  I don't really know the people in the Spanish church well at all.  

But, I guess that is part of what this thread is about.  What we as individuals can do to unite our country.  I am going to Spanish church to learn Spanish and to get to know them.  To connect with them.  To learn from them.

Zoom Church is not really the best place to have these kinds of conversations -- and I haven't been to church in person since March.  But I would absolutely welcome conversations like this once we get back to "normal" life (and once my Spanish improves a bit more). 😉

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, Junie said:

Yes, you are correct.  I don't really know the people in the Spanish church well at all.  

But, I guess that is part of what this thread is about.  What we as individuals can do to unite our country.  I am going to Spanish church to learn Spanish and to get to know them.  To connect with them.  To learn from them.

Zoom Church is not really the best place to have these kinds of conversations -- and I haven't been to church in person since March.  But I would absolutely welcome conversations like this once we get back to "normal" life (and once my Spanish improves a bit more). 😉

You can probably start by introducing yourself and finding safe ways to get together...and be PERSISTENT about it b/c there is likely to be suspicion WRT your motives.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Junie said:

Yes, you are correct.  I don't really know the people in the Spanish church well at all.  

But, I guess that is part of what this thread is about.  What we as individuals can do to unite our country.  I am going to Spanish church to learn Spanish and to get to know them.  To connect with them.  To learn from them.

Zoom Church is not really the best place to have these kinds of conversations -- and I haven't been to church in person since March.  But I would absolutely welcome conversations like this once we get back to "normal" life (and once my Spanish improves a bit more). 😉

Yes, I think the pandemic is a hampering issue with trying to improve community connections. Not impossible, but trickier, for sure. 

[SereneHome]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

I brought this up earlier this thread, and I'm not sure anyone has engaged with it, but what if I think Person X may vote for Candidate A for the best of reasons, and that Person X is a lovely person in private life, and yet Candidate A is proposing policies that actively harm me and make me feel unsafe? How am I supposed to feel about Person X in this context? I may still think that they are a lovely person in private life, but am I wrong to conclude that they aren't particularly interested in my safety? 

I think so.

Neither my friend (who I just called and ask) nor I feel this way about each other.

[Mommalongadingdong]

3 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

and be PERSISTENT about it b/c there is likely to be suspicion WRT your motives.

Yeah. I KNOW I KNOW my opinions on the thread are crap.

But it's so white saviory to me to have some lady join a spanish speaking church to learn about them and be taught by them? What do you want, a tamale recipe?  

We are not a commodity. 

Like how far removed are you to think you need to join a spanish speaking church to get to know Hispanics? 

If some white lady wanted to befriend me to get to know me and mine, yeah, I'd be beyond wary and know what's up. But learning Spanish, visiting a church, knowing our "struggle", doesn't make you an ally. 

[Sneezyone]

6 minutes ago, Mommalongadingdong said:

Yeah. I KNOW I KNOW my opinions on the thread are crap.

But it's so white saviory to me to have some lady join a spanish speaking church to learn about them and be taught by them? What do you want, a tamale recipe?  

We are not a commodity. 

Like how far removed are you to think you need to join a spanish speaking church to get to know Hispanics? 

If some white lady wanted to befriend me to get to know me and mine, yeah, I'd be beyond wary and know what's up. But learning Spanish, visiting a church, knowing our "struggle", doesn't make you an ally. 

Believe me when I say that I understand this sentiment. Still, in an effort to be constructive, people who are willing to do the work are often rewarded and should be supported. Few are willing, true, but I have a TON of friends who were. That effort should be encouraged.

ETA: I also appreciate your voice here. Lol. I’ve often been painted as radical and abrasive and it’s nice for people to see what a stronger voice sounds like. 🤣

Edited November 9, 2020 by Sneezyone

[SereneHome]

1 hour ago, Sneezyone said:

My experience with very lovely people is that they say, “You know I love you” while LITERALLY espousing the view that BLM protesters, of which I am one, are thugs and racism is NBD because babies. My babies didn’t factor into that very lovely person’s assessment. We are no longer friends.

Would you still be friends with someone if they weren't a racist but didn't support BLM?

 

[YaelAldrich]

28 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

Believe me when I say that I understand this sentiment. Still, in an effort to be constructive, people who are willing to do the work are often rewarded and should be supported. Few are willing, true, but I have a TON of friends who were. That effort should be encouraged.

The people who are willing and really want to figure things out from another (minority) perspective will have to be humble and be willing to put themselves out a lot, a whole lot.  Most, like Sneezy said, are not willing/able/content to do that.  Some are a little and some are a lot. Those who see real allies are welcomed because they reflect their understanding (at their level) that they see the humanity and reality of the other person/group.

Edited November 10, 2020 by YaelAldrich

[Sneezyone]

24 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

Would you still be friends with someone if they weren't a racist but didn't support BLM?

 

Honestly, I don’t even know what that would look like. BLM is literally a declaration that my life and those of my husband, children and family members matter. I spent the day with more than 10k people in DC listening to speakers talk about how to advance the safety and protection of black, brown, Asian, LGBTQIA people. There was no violence. So, yeah, this whole question confuses me. Either we matter, or we don’t. I’m not sure why that’s controversial. 
 

I guess I should add, what does BLM mean to you?

Edited November 10, 2020 by Sneezyone

[YaelAldrich]

Just now, SereneHome said:

Would you still be friends with someone if they weren't a racist but didn't support BLM?

 

You are not asking me directly, but I am a whole bunch of intersectionality in one person (woman, Black, Korean-American, Orthodox Jew).  There are a lot of "kind" people out there.  I am "friends" with those people to some degree or other.  They know me as the lady who is happy to share my stuff with the community, make a meal on little notice for a sick family, drop off cookies for no reason, etc.  But in my heart of hearts I see their negative and hurtful comments about this or that minority group (whether it is "my" minority group or another one) and I know that they are not really ever going to be a true friend.  Some are able to intellectually know the right thing is (and yes, there is only a right and a wrong to some issues) and not be able to take it any further than that (meaning they are a silent ally).  Some are able to go further and be a vocal ally in word and deed.  Those people are the ones I can say can be true friends.  They are precious few in my universe.  I feel it wasn't always this explicit (but yes always there), but a certain presidency brought out all the yuck and it has continued for far far too long.  

[prairiewindmomma]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

Except that currently, location is very correlated with how you vote. Cities are blue. Rural areas are red. 

Yes and no.  I think that's an overly simplistic divide. I grew up in a very red state, but lived in a purple community (because of a small town/gown setup with a local university) .  I now live in a very blue state, and live in a purple community. My church friend circle is very red, my ladies night friend circle is very blue.....I really do spend a lot of time mixing with people ALL across the spectrum.  I saw in the latest election that our old 'hood in TX was a 55/45 red/blue split.  

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Yes and no.  I think that's an overly simplistic divide. I grew up in a very red state, but lived in a purple community (because of a small town/gown setup with a local university) .  I now live in a very blue state, and live in a purple community. My church friend circle is very red, my ladies night friend circle is very blue.....I really do spend a lot of time mixing with people ALL across the spectrum.  I saw in the latest election that our old 'hood in TX was a 55/45 red/blue split.  

By neighborhood, maybe, I can believe that. But I would guess you'd have to be religious to have that kind of split in a city. Most cities are quite blue. 

[Sdel]

2 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

By neighborhood, maybe, I can believe that. But I would guess you'd have to be religious to have that kind of split in a city. Most cities are quite blue. 

I think I know where prairiewindmom is talking about.  It’s not a totally religious split.  The university draws and keeps a very large multicultural community and the dominant religious voting block is catholic (which is hit or miss on being red or blue).  There is no real Democratic Party so it looks much more red the lower down ballot you go where there are no opportunities to vote blue.  Most of the surrounding area is similar in that it has only recently in the last 10 years or less gone red at the local level. The university vote tends to swing either red or blue depending on the election and where the wave is going in that particular cycle.

[MercyA]

2 hours ago, Happymomof1 said:

I want these wonderfully, close friends that are so wonderful that all of you seem to have. I don't know how to find them. Especially by myself.

I don't know if this helps at all, but while I have lots of friendly acquaintances, I have only one close girlfriend, and she does not share my views on the coronavirus. At all.  

It is what it is.

For what it's worth, we are real people and we are your friends. ❤️

 

[bethben]

We should all stop watching the news and looking at Facebook and Twitter.  Be kind to the person in front of you—whomever that may be.  

[YaelAldrich]

10 minutes ago, bethben said:

We should all stop watching the news and looking at Facebook and Twitter.  Be kind to the person in front of you—whomever that may be.  

What does kind mean? People are kind to me and in the next breath talk ugly about Black people or gays or elite coastal people (lol). Or say it's no biggie to wave a Confederate flag or say Muslims shouldn't be allowed to come and be Americans. Is that person being kind to tell me I'm different; it's not me, it's those n******?

Edited November 10, 2020 by YaelAldrich
Autocorrect is a poop

[MercyA]

@Happymomof1, I am reading through this thread backwards, and I had not seen your posts regarding your despair over the state of things or your quandary over the former AWANA's leader's words on Facebook. 

Since you seem to be asking for advice on the latter, I will say, trust your husband and leave it alone when it comes to speaking to the man. There's a time to speak and a time to let things go. It's hard to tell the difference sometimes, but I usually find my husband's input helpful.

As to the former, if it doesn't sound too glib, can I quote Anne of Green Gables? "To despair is to turn your back on God."

Remember what you CAN do. "What does the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?" "Fear God, and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man."

Remember as the writer of Ecclesiastes wrote, "There is nothing new under the sun." God is not caught by surprise by any of this. Jesus still lives. Jesus still reigns. And "in the end He will stand upon the earth. "

Meditate on Psalm 43, especially the last bit.

Love and peace to you.

Edited November 10, 2020 by MercyA

[Not_a_Number]

2 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

ETA: I also appreciate your voice here. Lol. I’ve often been painted as radical and abrasive and it’s nice for people to see what a stronger voice sounds like. 🤣

You are not a radical, lol. I've met some radicals. 

[Pam in CT]

re shades of purple

1 hour ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Yes and no.  I think that's an overly simplistic divide. I grew up in a very red state, but lived in a purple community (because of a small town/gown setup with a local university) .  I now live in a very blue state, and live in a purple community. My church friend circle is very red, my ladies night friend circle is very blue.....I really do spend a lot of time mixing with people ALL across the spectrum.  I saw in the latest election that our old 'hood in TX was a 55/45 red/blue split.  

I've been thinking recently about how those ubiquitous red and blue Electoral College maps shape who we are as much as they describe who we are.  By reflecting the same winner-take-all outcomes that the EC is based on, the maps force a red-blue binary-ness that makes the sort of lived experience that you describe (and I think is fairly common) disappear.

I like this Purple States of America illustration of the same data.  You can jump around in time and see how trends have shifted, which is interesting (the most end-of-the-spectrum years are 1984 and 2008, respectively). But the larger takeaway is that just about all of the places we live are a good deal purpler than binary red-blue.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Pam in CT
omitted word

[MercyA]

2 hours ago, Mommalongadingdong said:

Yeah. I KNOW I KNOW my opinions on the thread are crap.

But it's so white saviory to me to have some lady join a spanish speaking church to learn about them and be taught by them? What do you want, a tamale recipe?  

We are not a commodity. 

Like how far removed are you to think you need to join a spanish speaking church to get to know Hispanics? 

If some white lady wanted to befriend me to get to know me and mine, yeah, I'd be beyond wary and know what's up. But learning Spanish, visiting a church, knowing our "struggle", doesn't make you an ally. 

I think I understand what you're getting at. One of the reasons I come here is to hear different perspectives.

But it does looks like you're new here (welcome, BTW), and you may not know that Junie is one of our kindest posters, and someone who really tries to do what is right and good. Your post is really harsh. 

Most of us are trying to do our best here.

Edited November 10, 2020 by MercyA

[Janeway]

Not get hostile at people for not supporting a candidate simply based on which party that candidate is affiliated with. When celebrities come out and say "vote for my candidate or don't watch my show" or articles come out that say "everyone who votes for the other guy is a racist and supports rapists" or "everyone who votes for the other guy supports pedafiles" it really causes harm and hate. Stop fighting to the death for a cause where the facts and statistics do not back up the cause. In otherwords, all this is, the people need to stop shoving their party affiliation down other people's throats. Every show on TV these days is laced with political statements. But we can watch a show from 20 yrs ago and not see all that junk. Why is it that Hollywood survived for several decades without becoming dividing and now, they cannot keep their mouths shuts.

[Not_a_Number]

2 minutes ago, Janeway said:

Not get hostile at people for not supporting a candidate simply based on which party that candidate is affiliated with. When celebrities come out and say "vote for my candidate or don't watch my show" or articles come out that say "everyone who votes for the other guy is a racist and supports rapists" or "everyone who votes for the other guy supports pedafiles" it really causes harm and hate. Stop fighting to the death for a cause where the facts and statistics do not back up the cause. In otherwords, all this is, the people need to stop shoving their party affiliation down other people's throats. Every show on TV these days is laced with political statements. But we can watch a show from 20 yrs ago and not see all that junk. Why is it that Hollywood survived for several decades without becoming dividing and now, they cannot keep their mouths shuts.

This seems too political. 

[Janeway]

Just now, Not_a_Number said:

This seems too political. 

How is it too political? I commented on remarks both sides say. 

[Not_a_Number]

3 minutes ago, Janeway said:

How is it too political? I commented on remarks both sides say. 

Yeah, you're right, I missed some of your examples 🙂 . 

[prairiewindmomma]

Good tamales are not a joking matter. 

/semi-sarcasm 

 

 

 

 

[Sneezyone]

1 hour ago, prairiewindmomma said:

Good tamales are not a joking matter. 

/semi-sarcasm 

 

 

 

 

[Nice meme deleted by moderator]

[frogger]

30 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

re shades of purple

I've been thinking recently about how those ubiquitous red and blue Electoral College maps shape who we are as much as they describe who we are.  By reflecting the same winner-take-all outcomes that the EC is based on, the maps force a red-blue binary-ness that makes the sort of lived experience that you describe (and I think is fairly common) disappear.

I like this Purple States of America illustration of the same data.  You can jump around in time and see how trends have shifted, which is interesting (the most end-of-the-spectrum years are 1984 and 2008, respectively). But the larger takeaway is that just about all of the places we live are a good deal purpler than binary red-blue.

 

 

 

 

 

I love this! It is so helpful. Look at 1988. 😳

[matrips]

On 11/6/2020 at 6:42 AM, Quill said:

Please do not devolve into politics. I want this post to stay here where more citizens of the US or smart people in other countries can contribute. 

Whatever ultimately happens with the election, it is clear we have a very serious national problem with ideology, extreme views, and an inability to discuss *anything* in a temperate and intelligent manner. (I don’t mean there’s no such thing; I just mean the national narratives on the whole.) What can we, as ordinary individuals, do to move this in a better direction? Any ideas? 

I do think Social Media is contributing to the problem, but I am also not certain that measured, intelligent voices bailing Facebook and leaving it for the wolves is doing us a favor in the national scope. (I say this even though I have been leaving FB to the wolves...I wonder if I am feeding the problem instead of the solution.) I know medical people who gave up several months ago, for instance, trying to quell COVID conspiracies. I understand *why* they would give up - plus who’s got time for that? - but I wonder if that’s merely making the baseless nonsense proliferate unchecked. 

What can we, as ordinary individuals, do to move our country in a more unified, kinder, less partisan/identity-driven direction? 

I think people need to learn our laws and constitution and what each branch of government (federal and state) does.  I think alot of the division stems from many people not knowing (or caring).  Which brings me to the next point- for people not to take the ‘news’ as gospel.  Look up information yourself.  Look at an entire speech or video instead of a 10 second clip.  

And work to get debate classes back in school.  Schools have stopped teaching this; debate clubs are a rarity.  People need to learn how to argue respectfully and have facts.

[YaelAldrich]

1 hour ago, Janeway said:

Not get hostile at people for not supporting a candidate simply based on which party that candidate is affiliated with. When celebrities come out and say "vote for my candidate or don't watch my show" or articles come out that say "everyone who votes for the other guy is a racist and supports rapists" or "everyone who votes for the other guy supports pedafiles" it really causes harm and hate. Stop fighting to the death for a cause where the facts and statistics do not back up the cause. In otherwords, all this is, the people need to stop shoving their party affiliation down other people's throats. Every show on TV these days is laced with political statements. But we can watch a show from 20 yrs ago and not see all that junk. Why is it that Hollywood survived for several decades without becoming dividing and now, they cannot keep their mouths shuts.

Two shows from even more than 20 years ago: Good Times and All in the Family. Were they not spewing biased opinions and political statements? Ok, let's go back further because the good ol' days were better, right? Where were the Black actors/actresses? Hispanic ? Asian?I won't even go into LGBTIA+.  Which shows showed non middle or upper class White lives realistically? How about my favorite old timey show, The Andy Griffith Show. It's my favorite because it's set in the town right next to the town in which I grew up. Now I never ever saw a Black person in the show. I know that our area had one black family clan with members all in the hollers and criks. But in that show you would never even know Black people existed. I'm not sure why you see that modern media can talk about the real issues without thinking it's a plot. Can you help me see what you see?

[Carol in Cal.]

4 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

That's a self-fulfilling prophecy. The more people say stuff like this, the more decent people will stop running for office, because they will get tarred with the same brush. 

Seems like you thought I meant that the politicians are the ugliness, but I didn’t—I meant the way they are treated.  Who would want to go through that?

[Rosie_0801]

4 hours ago, Mommalongadingdong said:

The thread should be shut down. There aren't supposed to be political threads, that's precisely what this is and what its turned into and always will. 

It's getting close. Don't be the one to haul it over the line, K?

[SereneHome]

3 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

Honestly, I don’t even know what that would look like. BLM is literally a declaration that my life and those of my husband, children and family members matter. I spent the day with more than 10k people in DC listening to speakers talk about how to advance the safety and protection of black, brown, Asian, LGBTQIA people. There was no violence. So, yeah, this whole question confuses me. Either we matter, or we don’t. I’m not sure why that’s controversial. 
 

I guess I should add, what does BLM mean to you?

It's one thing to believe the actual phrase, but it might be different to support what actual organization stands for. That's why I was asking.

[Sneezyone]

11 minutes ago, SereneHome said:

It's one thing to believe the actual phrase, but it might be different to support what actual organization stands for. That's why I was asking.

There is no *actual* organization to believe/not believe in. BLM is a movement of people like me who stand for and advocate for racial justice and fairness in policing. I suppose there are people who do not believe in those things but, to your earlier question, no, we could not be close friends.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Sneezyone

[Rosie_0801]

@Mommalongadingdong Sometimes moderators give warnings before they delete stuff. That's all I was doing.

[TravelingChris]

On 11/8/2020 at 9:49 PM, kand said:

I understand what you’re saying here, but for some people I think, for how long should certain groups have to put up with being continually cast in the role of being a stepping stone for future generations? Particularly when they’re doing the work and bearing the brunt of it, while others are perfectly content to continue with the status quo because they and their children aren’t making that sacrifice?

This makes me think of something that happened recently at my church that has been on my mind. I go to a Christian church that I think probably has fairly mixed political leanings among the members. The leadership has been unabashed at standing against racism over this past year and has hosted book studies and such accordingly. Recently a woman at church complained about one of the pastors wearing a Black Lives Matter shirt (we’re all online, so I’m not sure where she saw him). She said people don’t want to get into all that at church and it should be left out of it. I couldn’t help but think what an incredibly white perspective that was. For her comfort, she didn’t want to have to think about “race stuff” at church. Which is all well and good for her. It’s easy for her to not think about race. Some would agree that the pastor should keep the peace and not speak out like that in the interest of “unity”. But who is that unity for? Diversity is supposed to be one of our values in our church, but not wanting to talk about race is something that only serves the majority race in the congregation. I think that’s not a place where it’s right to defer to community-building by avoiding hard issues.  Community for who?

A step further on this would be for both sides to also listen to why the other side thinks they are or aren’t whatever thing based on their vote. I think there’s a lot to learn there as well. If someone tells me I’m not Christian based on my vote, I’d like to know why they think that. Only by knowing why they would think that way can I really enter into discourse about that. 

This is an excellent post on this topic. I think a lot of issues that people want unity on don’t really apply to them personally, so it seems perfectly easy to them that we should all just accept any disagreement and not be bothered by it. That’s not such a reasonable request if you are someone who is personally harmed by whatever people want you to accept as an equally valid position. 

It’s interesting you say that, because I have thought that this thread has varied voices in it. I think part of it might be that people are trying to avoid getting too political so it doesn’t get shut down, and because the purpose was discussing unity. 

I would have a problem with Black Lives Matter being at my church.  That organization, not that black lives don't matter but I do not like racism and do not think it is Christian at all to be a racist.  But I would greatly object to the BLM organization.

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

I would have a problem with Black Lives Matter being at my church.  That organization, not that black lives don't matter but I do not like racism and do not think it is Christian at all to be a racist.  But I would greatly object to the BLM organization.

What is this organization that you speak of? For real, why/how do you know what it is but the people who actually attend the events, and the churches who participate in them, do not?

[Mommalongadingdong]

 

 

5 minutes ago, TravelingChris said:

I would have a problem with Black Lives Matter being at my church.  That organization, not that black lives don't matter but I do not like racism and do not think it is Christian at all to be a racist.  But I would greatly object to the BLM organization.

 Why though? Honestly. 

I mean, if people, even people of your congregation,  came and said they support BLM and share why you should too.... Is that too much? 

Is pointing out that there's racism still too much? 

Like, I'm so confused where the disconnect is? Is it that you think BLM is some organized group causing all the world's problems? Like as a Christian, how can I not welcome ANYONE to my church, especially those advocating equality and peace? 

Edited November 10, 2020 by Mommalongadingdong

[Not_a_Number]

1 hour ago, matrips said:

People need to learn how to argue respectfully and have facts.

And what do you do when people can't agree on what facts are? How do you check? 

[Not_a_Number]

You know, in this thread, you have someone who supports BLM and goes to BLM protests telling you what BLM is about. Perhaps instead of telling HER what it is, you could listen to her and she could tell you what it means to her. We did agree a few pages back that most of us care about keeping each other safe, yes? Because to her, this organization is about keeping her and her family safe. So let's respect that and at least listen before you tell her about the evil things it supports, OK?

[Not_a_Number]

56 minutes ago, Carol in Cal. said:

Seems like you thought I meant that the politicians are the ugliness, but I didn’t—I meant the way they are treated.  Who would want to go through that?

Oh, I see. DH reminds me that it's often been like that throughout American history, though 😉 

[Mommalongadingdong]

5 minutes ago, Not_a_Number said:

And what do you do when people can't agree on what facts are? How do you check? 

I 100% think that's the true issue. 

[TravelingChris]

6 hours ago, Not_a_Number said:

I brought this up earlier this thread, and I'm not sure anyone has engaged with it, but what if I think Person X may vote for Candidate A for the best of reasons, and that Person X is a lovely person in private life, and yet Candidate A is proposing policies that actively harm me and make me feel unsafe? How am I supposed to feel about Person X in this context? I may still think that they are a lovely person in private life, but am I wrong to conclude that they aren't particularly interested in my safety? 

Well just as I assume you aren't interested in my dh's job,  and both my dds jobs which considering all of us would become poor, we so would be unsafe. Plus the safety of other countries like Israel snd many of tge Middle Eastern countries that are not allied w Iran.

 

[Not_a_Number]

1 minute ago, TravelingChris said:

Well just as I assume you aren't interested in my dh's job,  and both my dds jobs which considering all of us would become poor, we so would be unsafe. Plus the safety of other countries like Israel snd many of tge Middle Eastern countries that are not allied w Iran.

I actually don't believe that what we're doing now is making Israel safer, let me tell you. (And as someone whose dad lives in Israel, along with his family, I do care about that.) 

Why would everyone lose their job and be unable to get another one? I'm confused.