With all this talk about how homeschoolers are way above their ps conterparts

[A home for their hearts]

I would like to hear from some of the people who aren't raising Einsteins and whose dc are at or below grade level! I really should just stay away from threads that talk about children who are 7 years old and reading at a tenth grade reading level or that their 3 year old loves to listen to a telling of Homer instead of watching Dora. Don't get me wrong, I don't mean any disrepect to those whose dc are doing very well academically it would just be nice to know that I am not alone! My dd9 probably reads at a 3rd grade reading level, she hates to read and doing anything school related is like pulling teeth. My ds7(soon to be 8) can hardly read and really doesn't like doing school too well either.

 

 

*Dodging tomatos!* LOL

[Veritaserum]

We've got a mixed bag. :) DD8 is pretty much at grade level (reading is probably a grade or two "ahead"). DD6 is "behind". DD4 is precocious with an amazing memory, so she's ahead (no stopping that--she seems to absorb her older sister's lessons while playing with blocks on the floor).

 

I personally don't know any Einstein-like homeschooled kids. They're all pretty normal/average. :)

[tibbyl]

Also remember to look at way reading level is measured. On certain standardized tests, if a 2nd grader is allegedly reading at 10th grade level, what that means is that the 2nd grader scored what a 10th grader would have scored on the test given to the 2nd grader.

 

My kids are not Einsteins. They are somewhere in the range of average intelligence levels, probably toward the upper end of the middle. Usually I fare well at not comparing my kids to their peers, but it does get harder when ACT/SAT time rolls around.

[LaxMom]

I think my kids are pretty average. They each, of course, have their own areas in which they excel (like my 7 y.o. IS a voracious reader, but that's not innate ability, she just enjoys it and has developed the skill through practice.), but I can say, without a doubt, while they have all enjoyed listening to Daddy read aloud from Mary Pope Osborn's retelling of the Odyssey, every single one of them would trample him and the book if I turned Dora on.

 

The 7 y.o. struggles with math, can't remember what we're learning in history half the time, and, frankly, if I hear "bong jour" during French again tomorrow, I may snatch myself bald.

 

The other two are... quite typically four. This summer, one of them stripped down, pooped in the yard and wiped his bum with his shirt. (It has been pointed out that I should be happy he remembered to wipe, which I might have been if a) it was in the potty and 2) I wasn't still changing their diapers.) :glare:

 

Does that help?

[swellmomma]

my kids are not Einsteins, the argue over doing school work and would much rather be watching tv or reading or running around playing. My 5 year old loves Deigo, and spends many hours of the day watching treehouse(preschool channel), though he does not just sit staring at it, he plays with his toys, colours etc while watching it. My big kids are great readers though I have no clue what level, but would rather watch sponge bob or family guy than do grammar. My kids are smart (ds10 has an iq of 109 which is considered above average, dd9 is at 122 considered superior) but not geniuses, we watch tv as a family in the evenings, and take a break at 10 am to watch Steve WIlkos (while the kids play else where). They love greek myths but would rather listen to them on tape then have to read them. And would play video games for 8 hours straight if I allowed it. I am so excited that they are pretty *normal* kids, that is something I have been striving for for years.

[Kris]

You won't get any tomatoes from me -- unless you want to make a salad, and then I'd be happy to share.

 

Frankly, I don't think homeschoolers, as a total group, *are* "way above" their PS counterparts. Just as there are kids who excel in PS, there are kids who excel at home. And just as there are kids who fail in PS, there are kids who fail at home -- for whatever reason. And then there are the average kids -- in both groups -- that never make the headlines.

 

My son will never set the world on fire academically. It doesn't interest him in the slightest. He's plugging away because he feels that's the right thing to do, but that's it. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. He'll find something that works for him. And if he came to me tomorrow and told me he wanted to "drop out" it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. Actually, I'm pretty surprised he hasn't done it already.

 

I love to see parents bragging about their academically successful kids! I also love to see them bragging about their kids who are successful in other areas. There's always *something* that academically average or below average kids can excel at and I think that is the key -- find *that* and encourage and, yes, brag about it!

 

I admit that, being a "bookish" type myself, I would love my kid to be more like that, if for no other reason than because I'd at least have a glimmer of hope that I might actually *understand* him some day! But he's just so awesome in other areas, and I'm enjoying that. He is wickedly funny, for instance, and I have fun watching when he makes other people laugh! I know I'm sitting there with a stupid proud grin on my face -- but I don't care one bit.

 

Would things be different if we had pursued homeschooling earlier? I really don't think so. I was trying to read books as soon as I could pick them up -- he was using them to make roads for his cars, and some days I don't think we've advanced much beyond that. :lol:

[nova mama]

every single one of them would trample him and the book if I turned Dora on.

 

:lol:

[Erica in PA]

I would like to hear from some of the people who aren't raising Einsteins and whose dc are at or below grade level! I really should just stay away from threads that talk about children who are 7 years old and reading at a tenth grade reading level or that their 3 year old loves to listen to a telling of Homer instead of watching Dora. Don't get me wrong, I don't mean any disrepect to those whose dc are doing very well academically it would just be nice to know that I am not alone! My dd9 probably reads at a 3rd grade reading level, she hates to read and doing anything school related is like pulling teeth. My ds7(soon to be 8) can hardly read and really doesn't like doing school too well either.

 

 

*Dodging tomatos!* LOL

 

I have a mix among my three kids, and I really think it goes to show that individual children are just different, even if they are educated in very similar ways and by the same person (me)! :) My oldest son (12 yo) has always been very academic, very interested in learning for the sake of learning. He knew more about history and science when he was six years old than I did. He read Matilda with ease when he was five, and Harry Potter when he'd just turned six. He's since evened out a bit, but he is still capable of work quite a bit above grade level. He's the type of child that I think many people think of when they think of a bright homeschooled child.

 

My second son (8 yo) is a good student, and a hard worker, pretty much on grade level in all subjects, with the notable exception of spelling, at which he is absolutely dreadful. He writes at a K level, I'd say. I'm trying hard to bring him up to grade level, and I'm seeing some progress, but it's slow going.

 

My dd (6yo) is in first grade, but mostly on a K level. She's not anywhere near reading or at all interested in reading or learning. She has a hard time remembering how to write numbers 1-10. Her efforts are entirely in the social realm, and she is truly gifted in that area. She can make friends and become a leader of the group anywhere she goes. But school? Nope, not her thing at this point. That certainly doesn't mean I'm giving up on her academically, so I do work hard at making school enjoyable for her, and pushing her to progress to the best of her ability.

 

So yeah, I definitely think that homeschooling is great for helping students to progress as well as they can, and I don't think that my kids would be doing any better if they were in public school (likely they would not do as well as they are, imo). At the same time, being homeschooled does not guarantee exceptional students.

[nukeswife]

I have no delusions about my kids being einsteins, although if you spoke to my mom you would think they are :001_huh: I guess she's just a really proud grandma so I give her the benefit of the doubt when she talks to others about them.

 

My kids are 9, 7 and 3.5 with the girl being the middle one.

 

My 9 year old is technically in 4th grade and I'm sure could read near his grade level or above but it's would be a real struggle. He usually reads things that are about a 2.5 reading level like Magic Tree House or Magic School Bus chapter books. He's not terribly interested in reading either. My 7 year old dd is doing mostly 1st grade work (although she just turned 7 a couple weeks ago) her printing is gorgeous, her math is basic although she still has a hard time with the teens and mixes up 6 and 9 regularly, but her reading is coming very slowly. We just finished the short A lessons in the 1st book of hooked on phonics and it was a real challenge. I am using All about spelling very, very slowly with her, and if asked to spell any CVC word she can do that with ease, it's the reading of the word that's difficult, she actually still sounds out all words yet even if she just read it, like in a sentence "Wag, wag, wag!" she would sound each one of them out. I do think a lot of it is a lack of confidence on her part so dh and I make a big stink, lots of praise, etc when she does read anything to us.

Now my 3 year old seems like he'll be much easier to teach as he can identify most of his letters and their sounds and numbers to 10 but I think it's mostly mimicing of his older brother.

 

All that to say, you're not alone.

[buddhabelly]

I just wanted to point out that many people homeschool becausethe child is not on grade level. I have friends who homeschool their daughter because she is so advanced and their son because he is behind grade level. That is the beauty of homeschooling -- each child can work at the appropriate level instead of being overlooked. Your dd 9 and dd 7 would not receive nearly the attention you are giving them at school, and they are greatly benefiting from this individualized instruction.

 

And if we were to start a thread about the WILLINGNESS of children to do school, you would see that you are not alone. My son has ONE computer game (SPORE), and you should see how fast he can read a book about Andrew Jackson that has been ignored for two weeks. Once I mentioned that the library books need to be read before any "SPORE time" happens....watch out! Speed reading LOL.

 

Julie

[hillfarm]

The sad fact is that my 10yo dd just discovered Latin--pig Latin that is. And honestly, she doesn't even really get that completely. Today when I asked her to review what we had covered recently about the early industrial revolution, she started murmuring something about a war (took me a few minutes to realize she was thinking about the American Revolution). Her Spanish pronunciation stinks and she would much rather spend all day in imaginative play (aka doing nothing but playing with her stuffed animals) than do a lick of school work.

 

And I'm not all that worried about it. She is a bright, happy, well-adjusted kid that often astounds me with her practical insights on matters and occasionally amazes me when she demonstrates she really has been paying attention to some of what I am teaching. She is a little above grade level in some things, average in others, and below average in the few remaining ones. My main requirement is that she is showing improvement in all of those areas.

 

What does having a superchild achieve? I don't want to accelerate her grade level. We accidentally got a little ahead in second grade and I discovered that intellectual ability to do the work does not equal mental maturity to do the same. While she could do more advanced math, for example, I had to constantly sit beside her and ask, "Now what should you do next?". Although she knew how to multiply multiple digit numbers, she didn't have the attention span to keep her focus on the task.

 

Why rush through the middle and upper grades? I certainly don't want my future 15 yo moving early into a college environment! We started a little early in our schooling journey for several reasons: she was an only child, we live at the end of a dead-end road and there was nothing else to do but talk to the cows, she was ready and already trying to do much of the K work herself, so we started K4 when she was a really late 3/very early 4yo. And I spent part of 1-4 regretting that decision to accelerate things. She had to work really hard to achieve the level of proficiency that enabled her to move on. I now know that if I had just calmed down and let her "drift" a little longer before starting school, that we would have both had a much easier time of it. Her maturity/focus and fine motor coordination/handwriting would have been much better and I wouldn't have had to be such a tough taskmaster. I now know that it is okay to chase down a few rabbit trails now and then and to enjoy and savour the fun parts of our schooling. We're going to do real Latin in seventh and eighth grades. Eventually she will sort out the difference between the American and industrial revolutions. Her Spanish may improve or she may grow up like Daddy (a successful professional and wonderful parent), who can't speak Spanish worth a hoot.

 

But she will grow up to be an excellent version of herself. As long as I can remember the mantra, comparison is the death of contentment, and stay the course that is working for us.

Edited December 3, 2008 by hillfarm

[Alessandra]

"Also remember to look at way reading level is measured. On certain standardized tests, if a 2nd grader is allegedly reading at 10th grade level, what that means is that the 2nd grader scored what a 10th grader would have scored on the test given to the 2nd grader."

 

I am so glad that tibbyl said this earlier on in this thread -- so true!!!

 

BTW, we are ordinary to sub-ordinary -- I can't even figure out how to get the quote into the grey box!

[Jean in Newcastle]

As the parent of one superchild and one average child, you can't make a superchild. Both of my children have developed at their own rate. The beauty of homeschooling is that I can honor that. My dd is on target on some targets, and "behind" in some. But she's just where she needs to be and she's growing. My superchild btw does not always want to do school. And he certainly has the same character issues to learn as any child!

[6packofun]

Of my 5 who are currently school age, I'd say that I have 1 average, 1 below average (and very difficult to motivate, must strap head to an open book, LOL) and the other 3 are above-average in some areas and 2 of those are highly motivated as well. If I were forced to describe them that way, of course. hehe ;)

 

I think above-average attitude, effort and self-motivation are just as lovely as above-average test scores. :)

 

I'm finally at a place in our homeschooling life where I usually don't feel the need to bemoan or boast about the abilities of my kids. I just don't do it. I avoid "let's brag!" situations like the plague because it breeds discontent through comparison; the real "brilliance" and character in our children is so rarely caught on paper or in quantitative measures anyhow. I'm not justifying my kiddos to anyone! LOL

[Joanne]

My kids are blissfuily average!

[Mari]

It's really no different than what you find with non-homeschooled kids. Haven't you noticed that everyone's child is "gifted?" I kinda smirk and laugh to myself everytime I hear someone say this. By whose standards? It's a competitive thing among parents, I think. I find it kind of sad, really. In the end what happens is high expectations are wrongfully placed on the child unintentionally.

 

I've struggled with this myself from time to time and I always have to go back to my main goal for homeschooling. I'm educating my kids at home to get into Heaven, not Harvard. That always brings me back to reality.

 

--Mari

[KidsHappen]

I have one on level and two that are slightly behind. The sixth grader is actually doing better in ps than she was at home. I really think that Einsteins are born not made.

[WTMindy]

Well, if it makes you feel better, in the co-op where I teach, the students are definitely not above public school peers and I would say as a whole, they are behind.

[Nestof3]

Swellmomma,

 

How did you get our cat in your picture? :) Our Maggie looks exactly the same.

[Kathy in MD]

I would like to hear from some of the people who aren't raising Einsteins and whose dc are at or below grade level! I really should just stay away from threads that talk about children who are 7 years old and reading at a tenth grade reading level or that their 3 year old loves to listen to a telling of Homer instead of watching Dora. Don't get me wrong, I don't mean any disrepect to those whose dc are doing very well academically it would just be nice to know that I am not alone! My dd9 probably reads at a 3rd grade reading level, she hates to read and doing anything school related is like pulling teeth. My ds7(soon to be 8) can hardly read and really doesn't like doing school too well either.

 

 

*Dodging tomatos!* LOL

 

You mean about kids who hate to read, and never sat still to be read to? Couldn't read until 3rd grade, and then only poorly and couldn't tell you what the story was about?

 

Whose idea of doing work is to do the minimum, fake it, say the the computer ate it, insist I lost his work, or stall and hope I forget it? Yells when I insist he follow instructions? Barely makes C's in most subjcts?

 

Nope, I don't know any kid like that ;)

[Kris]

You mean about kids who hate to read, and never sat still to be read to? Couldn't read until 3rd grade, and then only poorly and couldn't tell you what the story was about?

 

Whose idea of doing work is to do the minimum, fake it, say the the computer ate it, insist I lost his work, or stall and hope I forget it? Yells when I insist he follow instructions? Barely makes C's in most subjcts?

 

Nope, I don't know any kid like that ;)

 

Good grief woman! If my son is spending *that* much time at your house, would you feed him, too, please? :lol:

 

I'm sorry -- I couldn't help myself! Most of that sounded SO familiar! :lol:

[Melissa in Australia]

I have 1 below average, and 4 right on average.

I find reading WTM depressing. I just wonder if it is possible to achieve the academic standard of that book?

I also have a unionised homeschool; the kids go on strike fairly often!!

[keptwoman]

It's really no different than what you find with non-homeschooled kids. Haven't you noticed that everyone's child is "gifted?" I kinda smirk and laugh to myself everytime I hear someone say this. By whose standards? It's a competitive thing among parents, I think. I find it kind of sad, really. In the end what happens is high expectations are wrongfully placed on the child unintentionally.

--Mari

 

Ain't that the truth! I've heard about so many "gifted" children lately. And as far as my humble self is concerned...most have been unrealistically labelled by parents who like to hope and have never been tested.

 

I have one fairly average who has been in school most of his years. I think he is capable of acheiving more but far too lazy.

 

I have one who is pretty much bang on average but if I hadn't pulled him from school in 1st grade he would be failing in a major way by now (2 years later) due to his LDs. He definitely reads a little above age level but everything else is pretty average. What a blessing to be able to say that when 2 years ago he was needing a teachers aide and extra assistance and still failing to keep up!

 

For DD it's too early to know. Average I suspect. Although I daresay I'll have the relatives chomping at the bit about why she isn't reading "yet" in a few months time. I've come to the conclusion that children read in their own time and I will work with her but not push. The relatives will have to learn to zip their mouths.

Edited December 3, 2008 by keptwoman

[Karenciavo]

Aw Stacy, no need to dodge. Look at how many people belong to this forum vs. how many people have gifted kids. I just think people who are proud and excited about their child's achievements are more likely to post. Also, I believe this phenomenon is more prevalent with those with younger children, it's exciting to see young minds learn and grow. Once you get over to the high school board you won't feel bad about not having an Einstein, you'll just feel bad about how you're not as smart as all those great moms over there (just kidding :lol:)

[Rhonda in TX]

My children are bright, but underachievers. They're not geniuses, but could be doing better than they are. It's very frustrating.

 

DS fights me about school on a regular basis and wants to exist on a reading diet of Star Wars and Bionicle books. Blech!

 

DD does school with few complaints, but regularly asks to go to public school.

 

Yeah, we're a bright shining example of homeschooling here! :tongue_smilie:

[SquirrellyMama]

I don't think my kids are above average intelligence. They may do well in certain subjects and ok in others. When I first started going to homeschool sites I was amazed by how many "gifted" homeschoolers were out there. I haven't seen that on this site so much.

 

I think most kids could do better given the individual attention a child at home gets. I also think some of the kids at home who aren't doing as well would probably be doing worse in PS. We are all different and not everyone is made to be a rocket scientist. We need all sorts of people to make this country run.

 

I heard a quote on the radio one day that has really helped me see the big picture. He said, "When I get to heaven God isn't going to say me 'Well done my well educated servant, or rich servant or beautiful servant.' He's going to say 'Well done my good and faithful servant'."

 

My goal since then is to make sure first and formost my children know and love God. I want them to have a great education but it is secondary to their love for their Creator and Savior.

 

Kelly

[Renee in NC]

I have an average, very artistic/musical 15yo who has always been in school.

 

I have a mechanically brilliant 10yo who is allergic to pencils.:D:tongue_smilie: I am pretty sure he is dysgraphic and HATES to read (and doesn't comprehend what he reads well.) He also hates to memorize anything - it is hard for him as he is very visual, but his reading skills hold him back. He understands about torque ratios and engine calibration and all that, so I figure he'll be okay. Everyone needs a really good mechanic!

 

I have a 7yo surfer boy who can't read and still has a hard time counting to 10 without help. He remembers everywhere he has ever been and can tell you where it is and why we were there. He also memorizes very well, as long as it is auditory. He also learns best upside down.:tongue_smilie: (He has had developmental problems since about 9 months old.)

 

I have a 6yo (in Oct.) Ker ds who is working on learning to read. He's just plain average. He can count, likes to listen to stories, and tries to write. I am not pushing him just yet as I have learned alot about boys and schoolwork.;)

 

I have a bright 4yo dd who will be reading soon and LOVES to do schoolwork and learn new things. I would say not average, but not genius.;)

 

I have a 2yo dd who scares me more and more each day. Talk about a MEMORY!

 

All this to say that I have a mix

 

My 10yo is not going to get a WTM education - parts, yes, but not as outlined in the book. Neither will my 7yo, though I will get him as far as I can. The 6yo, 4yo, and 2yo probably will.

 

Aw Stacy, no need to dodge. Look at how many people belong to this forum vs. how many people have gifted kids. I just think people who are proud and excited about their child's achievements are more likely to post. Also, I believe this phenomenon is more prevalent with those with younger children, it's exciting to see young minds learn and grow.

 

I was this way with my 10yo - at 3 and 4 he AMAZED me at what he could do. It wasn't until he started learning to read that things slowed WAY down.

[Jenny in Florida]

Aw Stacy, no need to dodge. Look at how many people belong to this forum vs. how many people have gifted kids. I just think people who are proud and excited about their child's achievements are more likely to post. Also, I believe this phenomenon is more prevalent with those with younger children, it's exciting to see young minds learn and grow. Once you get over to the high school board you won't feel bad about not having an Einstein, you'll just feel bad about how you're not as smart as all those great moms over there (just kidding :lol:)

 

Something else that may be happening is that parents of gifted kids post because they aren't getting support in real life. I know it's one of those things that folks may have trouble understanding, but parenting a highly gifted child can be an exhausting and lonely road. Very few other parents understand or can share your challenges and, on top of that, many other parents are resentful and/or judgemental. One of the reasons we quit even trying to participate in homeschool groups is because I got so tired of defending my parenting and educational practices against parents who were convinced (and not shy about saying) that I was "pushing" my kids. Honestly, only someone who's never raised a highly gifted kid could think that. The truth is that most of us are hanging on for dear life just trying to keep up with them!

 

Highly gifted kids also come with challenges that others do not. They tend to be extremely intense and often have whole lists of interesting personality or emotional quirks. They can be incredibly demanding of a parent's time and attention. (And, yes, I know that's true for all kids, but you'll just have to take my word that it's even more true for the highly gifted ones.)

 

The "joke" around here is that each of my kids is really twins in a single body. They require twice as much of everything (except, possibly, food, although maybe even that in my son's case).

 

"Gifted" kids may be a dime a dozen, but there are very real differences between the kids who qualify for the gifted programs in public schools and those who are "highly gifted." So, for those of us who do have kids reading 6 (or more) years above grade level or whatever, life can be very lonely. We have challenges others cannot relate to and are not allowed to talk about them, because it might make other people feel bad.

 

Can you really blame us for trying to reach out?

[Jenny in Florida]

Just a reminder that a lot of this apparent high achievement (like early reading/subject specific fascinations) evens out by high school.

 

But, see, this is exactly the kind of thing that drives parents of highly gifted kids crazy. I've lost count of the number of times I've been told (usually pretty smugly, although I'm not suggesting you're doing so) that "they all even out" by third grade/middle school/high school. Truly gifted kids don't. In fact, what we found with our daughter was that she just kept getting more different. When she was four or five, she was only a year or two ahead of her age peers, but by the time she was 10, the gap was much larger.

 

She is now almost 14 and a sophomore in college. So, clearly, there was no evening out. However, all those people telling me that made me doubt my own observations and my parental instincts.

 

The truth is that kids are just different. They're individuals. And parenting isn't a competitive sport.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I have one of each. My dd, at 3, was on a 3rd grade level (reading chapter books, multiplying, etc). She did struggle with mature writing and ALL spelling for years, but that came around eventually though her handwriting is not pretty.

 

But my ds didn't start reading til 9.5. Even still, he didn't take off with it til almost 12. At 13.5, he hates it, but can do it. He couldn't write at all til last year and it's still rough. Math is decent (Algebra). He hates doing schoolwork though he will find something interesting in his work at least every other day. His testing still isn't great. He's on the low end of normal, I would guess.

 

And we homeschool because of each of them. I wanted each of my children to get a good education (for him/her individually), taking in account their needs regarding pace and depth. Well, and we also have social, spiritual, mental, emotional, physical and family reasons we homeschool, but since the thread was talking about academics.....

Edited December 3, 2008 by 2J5M9K

[Karenciavo]

Something else that may be happening is that parents of gifted kids post because they aren't getting support in real life. I know it's one of those things that folks may have trouble understanding, but parenting a highly gifted child can be an exhausting and lonely road. Very few other parents understand or can share your challenges and, on top of that, many other parents are resentful and/or judgemental. One of the reasons we quit even trying to participate in homeschool groups is because I got so tired of defending my parenting and educational practices against parents who were convinced (and not shy about saying) that I was "pushing" my kids. Honestly, only someone who's never raised a highly gifted kid could think that. The truth is that most of us are hanging on for dear life just trying to keep up with them!

 

Very true, although I've had to defend myself here too for "pushing" my kids (who are not even highly gifted.) I no longer ask for opinions on my boys' schedules. :D

[Jenny in Florida]

Honestly, I'm not trying to hijack this thread or to upset anyone, but I guess I'm just feeling tender about this today.

 

What does having a superchild achieve?

 

Well, for some kids, it's just who they are. It's not a question of "achieving" anything, just letting them be themselves. When you have one of those kids, you find out that attempting to slow them down makes them miserable. Tell me the truth: If you had a child who was just stunningly beautiful, would you make her ugly herself up so as not to stand out?

 

Why rush through the middle and upper grades? I certainly don't want my future 15 yo moving early into a college environment!

 

Well, it's only "rushing" if it is not actually the appropriate pace for that student. My daughter was ready for high school at age 9. (And, by the way, we consulted with the teacher who had been doing her annual evaluations for several years. She agreed.) We laid out what we thought was a very rigorous, ambitious, WTM-based curriculum with the specific intention of slowing her down a bit. She finished in three years.

 

And, for what it's worth, the research (and our personal experience) shows that kids who do go to college at unusually young ages do just fine. In fact, for the kids for whom that choice is appropriate, it's a much better option (both educationally and emotionally) than holding them back with their age peers.

 

 

But she will grow up to be an excellent version of herself. As long as I can remember the mantra, comparison is the death of contentment, and stay the course that is working for us.

 

These are words of great wisdom. The very highest achievement I can hope for as a parent is to help my kids reach that same goal.

[Karenciavo]

Honestly, I'm not trying to hijack this thread or to upset anyone, but I guess I'm just feeling tender about this today.

 

:grouphug: I can imagine it gets very weary for you Jenny.

[Pamela H in Texas]

I can't even figure out how to get the quote into the grey box!

 

Alessandra, I can help you with this one. To get just part of a post in a quote box is simple (btw, I HATE when whole posts are quoted so I won't tell you how to do that!). First, highlight the part of the post that you want to keep. Then copy it (Ctrl-C or right click, copy). I always quick reply by pushing the 3rd icon on the very bottom of posts. Then paste what you copied, highlight it again. RIGHT above where you pasted it, you'll see a number of icons. The last one looks like a cartoon text bubble. Click it and it'll put the word "quote" on each side of what you copied from the other person. Write your post and then push "post" and all will be wonderful.

 

Hmmmm, I wrote this out for another poster in PM recently and it seemed much easier and clearer. But hopefully this works for you :)

[Tree House Academy]

My oldest son came out of ps. In ps, he was being tested for giftedness...he made straight A's and won every award the school offered. Then I got him home and realized he couldn't write a sentence beginning with a capital and punctuate it correctly every time! His reading is right at 4th grade level and he is *just now* starting to read more. His spelling is poor at best and he misses words like "scared" or "wants" on his spelling tests. When I say that hs kids are above their ps counterparts, this is what I am talking about. The one on one attention we give to our kids when we homeschool puts them heads above the rest - whether they struggle in certain areas or not. Not all kids will be good at all things...

 

As for reading level...I disagree that it is about whether or not the second grader scored higher than most 10th graders. In some tests, it comes down to comprehension. If a child that is 7 is able to read and understand the vocabulary in a book meant for 10th graders, then he/she is reading at a 10th grade level.

 

My youngest has been homeschooled since the beginning and he IS ahead of a typical kindergartener (he would not even be able to be in K yet due to his birthday). However, his is reading early readers and still very much learning to read and is NOT reading novels or chapter books - far from it! I understand what you are saying...I was looking for some reviews of the Judy Moody books and did a search here and found that lots of people had 6 year olds reading these books. My oldest ds is 9 and just finished reading them...and they are about on his reading level! So, yeah, that was a bit disappointing - I know what you mean.

 

Chin up, though. The things you are teaching your kids that are NOT part of academics...i.e. security (my mom is always here for me, always home with us, etc), affection (my son is ADHD and got absolutely NO affection from anyone in ps EVER), and so on....is more valuable than reading homer to an enthralled 3 year old! :)

[Miss Marple]

And my 8th grader forgot how to convert a fraction to a decimal :banghead:

 

While some truly gifted students will stay above level throughout their schooling, I've seen too many kids labeled gifted (usually by a parent because the student is performing above level in something) who have lost the edge by the time they hit junior high.

 

I teach in a co-op and find that many of these so called "gifted" kids can't do the grade level work. Much depends on who tags them with the label. I have 2 kids who qualified for the G&T programs from Johns Hopkins and other places, but they have tended to even out - still performing in the upper 10%, but not that top 1%.

 

My feeling is that one goes with the student's pace and takes advantage of those "gifted" times in order to offset those "brain lapse" times. Of course, some kids will *never* "brain lapse".

[HRAAB]

Well, I'm not raising Einsteins, and I'm rather glad because I'm not sure I would know what to do with one. My children are all just individuals; strengths in different areas, weaknesses in different areas. The most academic one is the least motivated; the most academically challenged one is the most motivated. Pretty normal kids.

 

Janet

[Karen sn]

I would like to hear from some of the people who aren't raising Einsteins and whose dc are at or below grade level! I really should just stay away from threads that talk about children who are 7 years old and reading at a tenth grade reading level or that their 3 year old loves to listen to a telling of Homer instead of watching Dora. Don't get me wrong, I don't mean any disrepect to those whose dc are doing very well academically it would just be nice to know that I am not alone! My dd9 probably reads at a 3rd grade reading level, she hates to read and doing anything school related is like pulling teeth. My ds7(soon to be 8) can hardly read and really doesn't like doing school too well either.

 

 

*Dodging tomatos!* LOL

 

 

Honey you are NOT alone.

My dd is a little dyslexic.

You can only imagine where we are!

And where we aren't!

 

Don't worry - they all eventually catch up with care and nurture.

And as an aside - most of these "brilliant" children that I have seen in real life - have ABSOLUTELY *NO* common sense whatsoever.

 

Fret not my dear.......

[Ria]

But, see, this is exactly the kind of thing that drives parents of highly gifted kids crazy. I've lost count of the number of times I've been told (usually pretty smugly, although I'm not suggesting you're doing so) that "they all even out" by third grade/middle school/high school. Truly gifted kids don't.

 

 

You are right, Jenny. I think the problem is that so many people think their kids are gifted just because they are bright and early achievers. The fact is, most kids, even the bright ones, do even out over time. Sure, they still might be ahead, but it's not nearly as obvious. Truly highly gifted kids, like your daughter, are rare, and the average person has no comprehension that these kids really are very different from merely bright kids. (I might also point out that most people who think their kids are gifted are probably mistaken...I think that term is thrown about loosely)

 

I had two kids who were years ahead of their peers at a very early age, but as time went on the others caught up. My kids are still bright but they are on a par with their age-mates (19) in their colleges. I have another bright child who has been tested, and he is considered in the gifted range; not highly gifted like your dd, but still different from just "bright" kids. I don't know how to explain it other than he learns differently, and deeper, if that makes sense. It's hard to explain.

 

Ria

[Pamela H in Texas]

Why does one group have to be put down or raised up over any other group?

[Ria]

Why does one group have to be put down or raised up over any other group?

 

They shouldn't. Kids are kids. They all have potential. All have strengths and weaknesses. All benefit from instruction that takes their uniqueness into account.

 

Ria

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

 

"Gifted" kids may be a dime a dozen, but there are very real differences between the kids who qualify for the gifted programs in public schools and those who are "highly gifted." So, for those of us who do have kids reading 6 (or more) years above grade level or whatever, life can be very lonely. We have challenges others cannot relate to and are not allowed to talk about them, because it might make other people feel bad.

 

Can you really blame us for trying to reach out?

 

Part of it, too, is "losing" them so early. I think one goes through a bit of grief when you have to let go before you're "supposed" to. You kinda have this vision of 18 years of having your child learn and grow *in your house*, and then it becomes obvious for whatever reason that this is not the universe's plan for this child.

 

And that's **** hard.

 

{{{{Jenny}}}}

[hillfarm]

I read a book many years ago, I think it was titled, Geniuses Among Us. It dealt with the challenges of having truly gifted children and convinced me that I would be perfectly happy with average. It did point out that many of the geniuses did tend to fade into society as they became adults, not remaining stand-outs. I think the main thing that gave me pause was that this book explained that truly gifted children don't have a choice--they are mentally self-driven to excel in their area of specialization.

 

It also explained that genius comes in different domains. One child might be musically gifted and another mathematically gifted. It is quite common for them to do average or even below average in the subjects outside their focus. Was it Einstein who supposedly had trouble learning to tie his shoes?

 

My comments about having a superchild were aimed at bright kids who were being pushed by their parents into high levels of academic achievement, not those who had that biological imperative. I could have easily pushed dd, but to what end? To have bragging rights for the smartest 10yo in my county? Big deal. To be honest, my identity and self worth are not dependent upon my dd's test scores. (Which are good). I could have pushed and damaged my relationship with my dd. I could have followed a very rigorous academic schedule but for whose benefit? Mine or hers?

 

Regarding pushing to graduate and begin college early, I wish those of you who have done this the very best. If your highly gifted child is driven to learn at that level, then from what I understand, you had better get out of the way and let them:D! But for me to push my dd to be "the next Doogie Howser" would be ridiculous. My dh works at a nearby university and so we know exactly what student life is like there. The very last thing we want for dd is to be put into that environment when she is too young to handle the social issues inherent. She will probably take some of her high school courses online through the local community college and may even take a class or two there in her last two years. But before I send her off to college, I want to allow space for her to have developed the highest level of maturity possible here at home. IMO, college is a dangerous place to grow up.

 

A homeschool mom of my acquaintance is one who pushes her children. And she loves to boast about their lofty achievements. Some of the other local moms idolize her, others hate her for how inferior she makes them feel. I believe that by their fruits you shall know them and I am not impressed with her children. The oldest son is a covert bully and I would never leave my child alone with him. The daughter is smug and self-righteous--the only flaw in her perfection is her lack of humility. The second son is a nervous wreck who will lie at the drop of a hat. The third son is a very spoiled and babyfied 6yo. For all of their knowledge of Latin, perfect co-op attendance, and rigorous academic schedule, they are not learning to become good people.

 

Regarding the WTM book, I read it when I need a shot of enthusiasm. I don't follow it to the letter, I never follow any prescribed system to the letter. I always customize them for my family. I believe in the WTM philosophy and let it encourage me to provide a solid academic curriculum. But I am finding that perhaps my dd's domains, mild though they are, may lie in non-academic areas. So far she has shown incredible ability in art and practical problem solving (think McGyver Junior:D). Who knows where this will take us. But I still think it is very important to build a solid foundation of hard core academic knowledge to support her. So yes, we will do some Latin, a few college courses when the time comes, and work to polish her basic skills. But my intent is to do it to make her the best she can be, not better than anyone else. And I certainly don't plan to brag about her occasional advanced accomplishments to others--for every trophy, it seems she walks into a door. I expect it will all balance out.

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

I read a book many years ago, I think it was titled, Geniuses Among Us. It dealt with the challenges of having truly gifted children and convinced me that I would be perfectly happy with average. It did point out that many of the geniuses did tend to fade into society as they became adults, not remaining stand-outs. I think the main thing that gave me pause was that this book explained that truly gifted children don't have a choice--they are mentally self-driven to excel in their area of specialization.

 

It also explained that genius comes in different domains. One child might be musically gifted and another mathematically gifted. It is quite common for them to do average or even below average in the subjects outside their focus. Was it Einstein who supposedly had trouble learning to tie his shoes?

 

My comments about having a superchild were aimed at bright kids who were being pushed by their parents into high levels of academic achievement, not those who had that biological imperative. I could have easily pushed dd, but to what end? To have bragging rights for the smartest 10yo in my county? Big deal. To be honest, my identity and self worth are not dependent upon my dd's test scores. (Which are good). I could have pushed and damaged my relationship with my dd. I could have followed a very rigorous academic schedule but for whose benefit? Mine or hers?

 

Regarding pushing to graduate and begin college early, I wish those of you who have done this the very best. If your highly gifted child is driven to learn at that level, then from what I understand, you had better get out of the way and let them:D!

 

I think the point is that when you see the parent of a gifted child behind the child with their hand on the child's back, it's generally not the parent back there "pushing." Usually, they are just hanging on for dear life.

 

I don't have uber-gifted kids like some here, but I have to say the term "pushing" puts my teeth on edge. It's very hard to determine from the outside looking in if someone is pushing or not. Best to say *you* are not pushing, rather than making the determination for someone else. JMO, and it sounds like you've balanced your life and that of your children nicely.

[StaceyinLA]

I would say they all have better than average intelligence overall, but I wouldn't say they all put it to good use. :tongue_smilie:

 

Oldest dd always did well in all subjects except math. That was a constant struggle for her. She did average on her ACT, scoring a 20. It was nothing to write home about, but it got her into college. She hasn't had any trouble in college, though she is sitting out a semester or two because she's just burnt out right now.

 

Second dd is tough. She is smart and does well in most subjects. Again, the struggle is with math. She is now a senior and planning to get her GED to go to Cosmetology school.

 

Next dd went from home schooling to ps this year (her 10th grade year). She passed almost all of the tests needed to be considered a sophomore, so, as of right now she is still a freshman, but she will go straight into 11th grade next year. In other words, she will graduate on time. We had just taught some things in a different order than the school. She plans to go to college and wants to be a nurse.

 

Ds is the one I consider to be my "smart one." He can do anything, learn anything easily, excels in math, diagrams like a fiend, etc. He is very mechanically inclined and can fix and repair stuff like its second nature. At 13 he can do more than me most of the time. He remembers everything he reads and learns. He's an electronics geek and he loves to fish and play golf. I guess it just took me years of practice and guinea pigs to get there. :tongue_smilie:

 

All that is just to say that I've raised them all the same and they are totally different. None are setting the world on fire, but they are all responsible and I believe they will be productive members of society, good parents, good spouses, etc. That was my main goal, and I think we're accomplishing it.

[swellmomma]

Swellmomma,

 

How did you get our cat in your picture? :) Our Maggie looks exactly the same.

 

 

Maybe it is her doppelganger? Actually it is funny how many cats we see daily doing papers that look just like her. Those cat genes run strong lol

[hillfarm]

Pam, by pushing I mean a parent who demands that their child perform beyond the point of comfort or challenge, and moves on into the area of harrassment and possible abuse. I am of the opinion that this is usually done for the ego or insecurity of the parent rather than for the benefit of the child.

 

The woman I mentioned in my previous post once arrived minus one of her children at a co-op gathering. She explained that the child had become increasingly slow at completing his math work which normally would have taken only one hour. He had been at this day's math assignment for two hours already and wasn't done, so she left him with a relative with strict orders to get all the work done. She was adamant that missing this long anticipated outing was his punishment for dawdling.

 

The child in question was 5 years old.

 

THAT is what I call "pushing". And you are right, it is hard to know from the outside exactly what the situation is. Outsiders may think I push my dd, but I know what her abilities are and how much she should be expected to do. OTOH, expecting a 5yo to complete an hour of math every day is excessive IMO. This woman often mentioned having her children in tears by tearing sloppy work to shreds and requiring it to be redone, requiring hours be spent recopying memory verses if only one word was incorrect verbally, and freqently bragged about completing at least two grades worth of work in one school year. She seems to delight in a draconian system and far exceeds all of the information I have seen for what constitutes a reasonable amount of work to expect, especially from young children. She told me once that she loves the fact that everyone thinks she is too hard on her kids and feels that they will be so much smarter than everyone else because of her high standards.

 

I guess my main point is that I think pushing means trying to force a child beyond their capacity to the detriment of both the child and the parent/child relationship. OTOH, I imagine we all have been in the situation of having to apply a little pressure to motivate an undermotivated student to do THEIR best. You are right, it is very hard to judge from outside whether a child is being pushed or motivated.

Edited December 3, 2008 by hillfarm

[Jenny in Florida]

here, but I have to say the term "pushing" puts my teeth on edge. It's very hard to determine from the outside looking in if someone is pushing or not. Best to say *you* are not pushing, rather than making the determination for someone else.

 

Thank you, Pam.

[Pamela H in Texas]

the term "pushing" puts my teeth on edge.

 

Yes, it never would have crossed my mind to push my daughter to the extent she dragged us along....and there is also nothing "wrong" with my son (tyvm).

 

The other one that is really getting me is "perfectly normal" (or blessedly, blissfully, or absolutely normal). Someone's kid and/or situation is not better than another's just because their kid is more in average range.

 

And btw, NORMAL is a setting on a washing machine!

 

All kids are different and that SHOULD be okay.

[jamnkats]

My 14yo could probably be gifted or accelerated or whatever, if it was important to him. He is starting to work on his handwriting, won't memorize the times tables and so is stuck still beginning Math 7 of Teaching Textbooks. He reads at an adult level though, and has for years.

 

My 12yo started formal academics this year and has mastered multiplication, division and I think he is moving onto fractions next. Either that or decimals. He has scored 100% on each test TT gives him, but he's probably woefully behind in math - but he just started in September. He started reading at 10 and just a few months ago started reading for pleasure. His handwriting is getting better and he, his brother and I are all doing the Writer's Jungle course.

 

My 9yo is beginning to read. No formal math. Writing letters and numbers with ease.

 

My 7yo does not read. Does lots of math in her head. Can write letters and numbers but struggles. Doesn't like it much.

 

We home/unschool to allow them the freedom to direct their education. Yeah, they're all somewhat behind but I'm sure they'll get what they need by the time they need it. If nothing else, they'll make your kids look So Very Much Better. :)