Y’all. Tulsa is spiking, OK is spiking...

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, dmmetler said:

What really bothers me is that this seems like the perfect example of an event that could be virtual. I mean, it is likely that it will be televised anyway, right? You can sing, yell, chant, etc from your living room, pick up live tweets and put them across the bottom of the screen, even talk to supporters via something like Zoom. Maybe even have smaller get togethers, with social distancing, run by the local Republican parties. Like in football or baseball stadiums.  You could really have a million people tune in, or more.  

Hmmm, it's a point. And if this turns out to be a dangerous touchpoint where covid got spread to lots of people, that will have been excellent advice. And if it's a minor issue, then pretty much anything else (football, etc.) could go forward.

And as far as people watching, it will likely be televised in entirety and many many people will watch anyway. I watch them sometimes, just because I find them astonishing. I went to an early one, before he one the primary, and dd and I got in almost front row seats, right behind him, just by showing up 2 ½-3 hours early. Now of course you can't get in, lol. And I knew diddley about him but figured dd was doing gov't and ought to attend a rally, just to see what one was. I had never been to one either. It was an astonishing thing, with this WIDE range of music. It was like you went in his music cabinet and were seeing what he was really like. You could see his suit, his handwritten notes under the podium. Granted I only looked at his back and he really didn't say anything different from what he said in all the others. But you really kind of got a *sense* of him, that he was much more real and down to earth.

My dh had invited me to go to some other rallies. Nuts, we even had dibs on a comparatively low price ($1k a person) dinner with a then president that only had 12 people attend. I hadn't really bothered with any of that and I doubt I would bother with another again. These are really a different beast, EVENTS. The atmosphere TINGLES and there's a lot of energy. 

So no, the people who are coming from very far away are doing it because they want to be there. On tv would not do. And I guess we'll just see what happens with the safety, with the data. I have no clue. I wish them well, hope everyone is safe, etc. I'm kind of EXCITED frankly. Maybe it's time to move on. Maybe we need something else to think about. If people are getting back to work and wearing masks is hot and drudgery, maybe we need some new topics to debate and need to get back to LIFE. Maybe it will be good. 

And I guess someone would say we can't do that. But North Korea is still provoking, economics still happen, and life goes on. So we're going to have to get back to things even while we keep going forward with treatments and safety and dealing with stuff. So yeah, I'm pretty excited. I want it to go WELL and turn out that we CAN have these things. It would be good. 

Edited June 20, 2020 by PeterPan

[ktgrok]

56 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

I'm kind of EXCITED frankly. Maybe it's time to move on. Maybe we need something else to think about. If people are getting back to work and wearing masks is hot and drudgery, maybe we need some new topics to debate and need to get back to LIFE. Maybe it will be good. 

And I guess someone would say we can't do that. But North Korea is still provoking, economics still happen, and life goes on. So we're going to have to get back to things even while we keep going forward with treatments and safety and dealing with stuff. So yeah, I'm pretty excited. I want it to go WELL and turn out that we CAN have these things. It would be good. 

And maybe Jesus will show up in a rolls royce and preach the prosperity gospel. Anything is possible. But I wouldn't risk my life on it. And everyone at that rally is not only riskng their own lives, but the lives of everyone they will encounter for the next two weeks. That anyone thinks that is anything other than terribly irresponsible is mind blowing. It isn't exciting, it's terrifying. 

[Guest]

Based on the topic of discussion with my dh tonight over pizza, now I am more curious than ever how masking will go/not go at the rally. I’m basically wondering how right I am. 😬

Since we live in a state with mandatory mask usage and near-total compliance, dh seems to think most people are wearing masks (throughout the country) even if it is a high percentage of Republicans/Trump Republicans. I mean, I guess I would probably think that too but from what I’ve seen on here over the past couple of months, it sounds like our area is in the tiny minority for mask compliance. It’s actually so weird to me when I read on here tales of churches, parks, restaurants, walmarts, with very low or non-existence mask use. That’s so far from the norm around here. 

[Pen]

I hope they will quarantine after so that it’s a big experiment with people who chose the risk. 

They probably won’t, but that seems like right thing to do. 

And then perhaps there will be a comparison experiment in AZ. 

Alas to me, It feels exciting sort of like rubbernecking while passing a traffic crash.  

Otoh, I’ve never seen a rally live or televised, but think I am likely to see if internet will show some coverage of this one.  (We don’t have TV, but since we got dsl internet recently I’ve been able to get TV stuff via computer sometimes.) 

 

1 hour ago, PeterPan said:

And as far as people watching, it will likely be televised in entirety and many many people will watch anyway. I watch them sometimes, just because I find them astonishing. I went to an early one, before he one the primary, and dd and I got in almost front row seats, right behind him, just by showing up 2 ½-3 hours early. Now of course you can't get in, lol. And I knew diddley about him but figured dd was doing gov't and ought to attend a rally, just to see what one was. I had never been to one either. It was an astonishing thing, with this WIDE range of music. It was like you went in his music cabinet and were seeing what he was really like. You could see his suit, his handwritten notes under the podium. Granted I only looked at his back and he really didn't say anything different from what he said in all the others. But you really kind of got a *sense* of him, that he was much more real and down to earth.

 

 

[Matryoshka]

1 minute ago, Quill said:

Based on the topic of discussion with my dh tonight over pizza, now I am more curious than ever how masking will go/not go at the rally. I’m basically wondering how right I am. 😬

Since we live in a state with mandatory mask usage and near-total compliance, dh seems to think most people are wearing masks (throughout the country) even if it is a high percentage of Republicans/Trump Republicans. I mean, I guess I would probably think that too but from what I’ve seen on here over the past couple of months, it sounds like our area is in the tiny minority for mask compliance. It’s actually so weird to me when I read on here tales of churches, parks, restaurants, walmarts, with very low or non-existence mask use. That’s so far from the norm around here. 

Mask compliance is really high here too.  I think that's what happens after it gets real.  I can't remember when I went inside a store and saw someone without a mask.  Outside just walking around on the street, sure, no masks - I don't wear one there either; we just cross to the other side when passing.  But not inside.  And yes, there are the doobs who don't have it fitting well over their noses, but at least half their airholes are blocked, and everyone else isn't spewing their droplets all over the darn place.  Makes me feel much better about getting out.

[Pen]

10 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

And maybe Jesus will show up in a rolls royce and preach the prosperity gospel. Anything is possible. But I wouldn't risk my life on it. And everyone at that rally is not only riskng their own lives, but the lives of everyone they will encounter for the next two weeks. That anyone thinks that is anything other than terribly irresponsible is mind blowing. It isn't exciting, it's terrifying. 

 

I felt same about Marci Gras, Spring break parties, Memorial Day, and Covid opening up protests and Police brutality protests too...

All of them IMO should have not done it in first place or quarantined for two weeks after so that mostly only those choosing the risk would be at risk (medical workers etc still would be though). 

[KungFuPanda]

2 hours ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

Reading?  Maybe he can get it on Audible.  

I thought he was more willing to read things if his name was sprinkled throughout. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

I thought he was more willing to read things if his name was sprinkled throughout. 

Just think how much better that is on Audible, though. Fire up that serotonin! 

[Alte Veste Academy]

2 hours ago, Terabith said:

So, I hadn't heard about a rally in Arizona.  I went to his campaign website, and I don't see it listed.  I saw an article in the Washington Post where he talked about having a rally in Arizona "sometime," (and also Texas, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina), but I can't find a listing of any actually scheduled beyond Tulsa.  Am I missing something?

It's a "Students for Trump" rally, and it will be in Phoenix on 6/23. I don't see info on a site, but it's all over the news here.

2 hours ago, kand said:

I didn’t realize there is another rally in Arizona on Tuesday. Arizona just passed a mask mandate today, so it will be interesting how that goes. Arizona really, really doesn’t need something like this to aggravate an already really bad situation.

Actually, it could provide one of the better  case studies we might get of the difference with and without masks. If people don’t wear them at the rally in Oklahoma but do in Arizona, the outcomes may be suggestive, even though there will obviously be other variables not controlled for.

 

Masks are not mandatory statewide. Rather, the governor allowed each city to make a choice and said he wouldn't interfere with that choice. Phoenix has made them mandatory, and so far it seems like most larger cities have as well, although some haven't announced. Even the mandate for Phoenix doesn't begin until tomorrow morning. We have 1/3 of the Florida population, and our positive cases were 3200ish compared to the 3800ish they had today. We are spiking, and it will be interesting to see where we are next week.

[katilac]

 

3 hours ago, Pen said:

I felt same about Marci Gras, Spring break parties, Memorial Day, and Covid opening up protests and Police brutality protests too...

All of them IMO should have not done it in first place or quarantined for two weeks after so that mostly only those choosing the risk would be at risk (medical workers etc still would be though). 

Mardi Gras was pretty early this year, though, and you have to remember the knowledge wasn't there yet.  Carnival season started January 6 and Mardi Gras itself was February 25 - so Carnival began two weeks before the first known case in the United States, and Mardi Gras was two weeks before the first known case in Louisiana. Then things started moving so fast that it's hard to imagine people weren't closing things down sooner, but it was very different in February.  The number of confirmed cases in January and February was miniscule, and they were all travel-related until late February. No states had ordered schools closed or ordered shelter in place. California had the first statewide shelter in place order on March 19. 

I think that cancellation of big events in February would have been wonderful and could have happened with more information and leadership at the federal level, but you have to remember that was not happening whatsoever. There were numerous statements from the POTUS saying there was nothing much to worry about, including one on Lundi Gras (day before Mardi Gras): "The coronavirus is very much under control in the USA." 

So I can see why local officials didn't feel compelled (or even able) to cancel a billion dollar event. The mayor of New Orleans caught hell for cancelling St. Patrick's day parades, and those were mid-March. 

Edited June 20, 2020 by katilac

[Pam in CT]

re distracting from The Room Where it Happened:

14 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

He needs the boost before Tuesday. I predict he’ll be pouting in his room all day reading Bolton’s book and live tweeting his outrage.

 

14 hours ago, CuriousMomof3 said:

Reading?  Maybe he can get it on Audible.  

 

This is a sidebar to the main thread here obviously, but the completion of the Audible version is precisely what the DOJ was attempting to restrain in yesterday's hearing. The physical copies  of the printed version are already out and distributed -- as the judge noted in the hearing, that horse has already left the barn. But the audio version has not yet been completed.

[KungFuPanda]

2 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:

re distracting from The Room Where it Happened:

 

 

This is a sidebar to the main thread here obviously, but the completion of the Audible version is precisely what the DOJ was attempting to restrain in yesterday's hearing. The physical copies  of the printed version are already out and distributed -- as the judge noted in the hearing, that horse has already left the barn. But the audio version has not yet been completed.

I was cheap and am awaiting the e-version, but have obviously not been paying attention to distributions of the other formats. I swear I’m only catching half of every story. Is pandemic brain-fog a diagnosis yet?

[Pam in CT]

18 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

I was cheap and am awaiting the e-version, but have obviously not been paying attention to distributions of the other formats. I swear I’m only catching half of every story. Is pandemic brain-fog a diagnosis yet?

Why yes, yes it is.  CoronAmnesia...

Edited June 20, 2020 by Pam in CT

[PeterPan]

13 hours ago, Quill said:

Based on the topic of discussion with my dh tonight over pizza, now I am more curious than ever how masking will go/not go at the rally. I’m basically wondering how right I am. 😬

Since we live in a state with mandatory mask usage and near-total compliance, dh seems to think most people are wearing masks (throughout the country) even if it is a high percentage of Republicans/Trump Republicans. I mean, I guess I would probably think that too but from what I’ve seen on here over the past couple of months, it sounds like our area is in the tiny minority for mask compliance. It’s actually so weird to me when I read on here tales of churches, parks, restaurants, walmarts, with very low or non-existence mask use. That’s so far from the norm around here. 

Sorry, it was late when I read this and I couldn't figure out the question. Well that and I had done my very virtuous 15 burpees.  

So I'm in a "republican" state which is more like a one party rhino and conservatives republican kind of state. But even that's not true because the big big cities tend very democrat and we go back and forth in federal elections. We're the state that brought you Kucinich, the guy who thought he saw UFOs... 

My dh drives around a lot, and he says, just overall, 50% averaging out all the places he's been. That would be a solid guess when you average everything out.

So to take that up higher, yes it would require a mandate, and no that got shot down politically. And considering our state health director just QUIT because she couldn't take the heat (or pick a reason, she was being sued over decisions, house attacked, etc.), I don't know if it will happen. It could happen, sure. 

 

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Sorry, it was late when I read this and I couldn't figure out the question. Well that and I had done my very virtuous 15 burpees.  

So I'm in a "republican" state which is more like a one party rhino and conservatives republican kind of state. But even that's not true because the big big cities tend very democrat and we go back and forth in federal elections. We're the state that brought you Kucinich, the guy who thought he saw UFOs... 

My dh drives around a lot, and he says, just overall, 50% averaging out all the places he's been. That would be a solid guess when you average everything out.

So to take that up higher, yes it would require a mandate, and no that got shot down politically. And considering our state health director just QUIT because she couldn't take the heat (or pick a reason, she was being sued over decisions, house attacked, etc.), I don't know if it will happen. It could happen, sure. 

 

Well I guess it is basically an unknown until the rally happens and is televised and I can observe mask compliance if I can bear to listen to the speaker long enough to make an assessment. But if I had to put money on a bet, I would bet it won’t be at 50% compliance, let alone surpassing that. As you said, mandating was rejected by the governor or mayor. And it does seem to me what you said is true; without mandating, 50% is about the most we can hope for. 

[PeterPan]

Just now, Quill said:

Well I guess it is basically an unknown until the rally happens and is televised and I can observe mask compliance if I can bear to listen to the speaker long enough to make an assessment. But if I had to put money on a bet, I would bet it won’t be at 50% compliance, let alone surpassing that. As you said, mandating was rejected by the governor or mayor. And it does seem to me what you said is true; without mandating, 50% is about the most we can hope for. 

Oh I hadn't made that connection. That's an interesting point that it might be 50% if that reflects our state. Fwiw, I tend to think OK and Tulsa are significantly more extreme toward the republican side than we are. I'm guessing masking in their state, where not mandated, is probably dramatically lower. That may reflect a different geography, lifestyle, etc. Those people may make different choices in a large group setting, who knows. I did see street vendors selling Trump themed masks, bandanas, etc. so who knows. And yes, that makes sense that you would be offended if they pan the crowds. On the other hand, how often DO they pan the crowds at these rallies? Wasn't that the joke, that they don't tend to show the crowds anyway?

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Oh I hadn't made that connection. That's an interesting point that it might be 50% if that reflects our state. Fwiw, I tend to think OK and Tulsa are significantly more extreme toward the republican side than we are. I'm guessing masking in their state, where not mandated, is probably dramatically lower. That may reflect a different geography, lifestyle, etc. Those people may make different choices in a large group setting, who knows. I did see street vendors selling Trump themed masks, bandanas, etc. so who knows. And yes, that makes sense that you would be offended if they pan the crowds. On the other hand, how often DO they pan the crowds at these rallies? Wasn't that the joke, that they don't tend to show the crowds anyway?

I don’t actually know if they will pan the crowd and I don’t historically watch them. So it may not be observable in any case. I have never heard a remark, one way or the other, that they show the crowd or don’t show the crowd. 

[PeterPan]

2 minutes ago, Quill said:

I don’t actually know if they will pan the crowd and I don’t historically watch them. So it may not be observable in any case. I have never heard a remark, one way or the other, that they show the crowd or don’t show the crowd. 

It's kind of a trope Trump has where he eggs them on and says they never show the crowds, the full crowds. So guaranteed, tonight they'll be panning the crowds, lol. Unless mask usage is high, then of course they might not bother.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Huh, interesting. I would imagine his rallies have full crowds... why wouldn't they? I don't think anyone doubts he inspires enthusiasm in lots of people. 

This. 

FWIW, in looking at photos of people waiting for gate opening today, there are only a small percentage wearing masks. I concede, though, that that is merely a little snapshot and I have no idea if it is representative of the general whole. I guess, short of panning the crowd during the rally, there’s not really a way to observe this accurately. 

[matrips]

On 6/19/2020 at 10:32 AM, Amy in NH said:

 

Everyone at the local BLM protest was wearing a mask.  I didn't see a single protester there without one. 

Police weren't wearing them, though.

And I'd guess less than 50% at the local stores are wearing them.

I wish only the irresponsible people were getting the bad cases.

Oh wow.  I’ve watched a lot of the protests in various cities on the news and the masks were maybe 50%, if that.  Plus add in all the shouting.  Good for your local community, but not sure that was the norm.

[ktgrok]

Given that the main attraction for the rally has insulted people for wearing masks, said they are "not a good look" and that they are a statement of disapproval of him, I don't see WHY people that support him would wear them. I mean, they like him, they trust him to lead them, and he is anti mask. So, why would they mask? 

Edited to add: I pray I am wrong (literally, praying for them to wear masks). I actually keep hoping it is cancelled at the last minute for some made up reason. 

Edited June 20, 2020 by Ktgrok

[PeterPan]

6 minutes ago, Quill said:

people waiting for gate opening today, there are only a small percentage wearing masks.

Why would they??? Outdoors. 

[matrips]

On 6/19/2020 at 11:11 AM, Scarlett said:

I think Juneteenth would have naturally spilled over to include the whole weekend....the worry to me is not the number of people so much as the mix of various mindsets, some very radical.   I will be surprised if no one dies this weekend in Tulsa.  Quick Trip has boarded up at least 6 of their stores due to safety concerns.  Other businesses are boarding up too.  I was googling for some info (I heard the people waiting in line for the rally had been made to move by the police and I was trying to verify that) when I saw a video of a young black man sneak up on a man sitting in a chair in line for the rally.  Black man begins beating the crap out of the trump supporter.  A bunch of people in line run toward the black guy screaming and cursing at him...and one trump supporter padded his waist as if to indicate he had a gun there, which I am sure he did.  Him and no telling how many others.  

I think it is a powder keg.

If the guy knew his history better, he’d be beating up democrats instead of republicans.

[regentrude]

18 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Why would they??? Outdoors. 

because they are not all lining up 6ft separated from the nearest person? Or are they actually??? (I would be surprised)

Edited June 20, 2020 by regentrude

[chiguirre]

Well, we're not off to a good start:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/06/20/trump-rally-tulsa-oklahoma-live-updates-coronavirus/3207784001/

Six staffers working to organize President Donald Trump’s campaign rally here have tested positive for the coronavirus, a development that is likely to increase concerns about the safety of the massive and high-profile indoor event.

[PeterPan]

5 minutes ago, chiguirre said:

Well, we're not off to a good start:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/06/20/trump-rally-tulsa-oklahoma-live-updates-coronavirus/3207784001/

Six staffers working to organize President Donald Trump’s campaign rally here have tested positive for the coronavirus, a development that is likely to increase concerns about the safety of the massive and high-profile indoor event.

So could we assume that's part of "test everybody coming close to the president" kind of thing and that they were asymptomatic/presymptomatic? 

Yup, reading the article, that's what it says. They tested lots of people and some were positive.

Edited June 20, 2020 by PeterPan

[Guest]

I wish they could test everyone the way they test folks who come into the White House or near the President.  If they could test everyone, say, at 1 week increments, that would make group events a lot more tenable, and possibly let us reopen college campuses, go back to K-12 schools, and just plain  start living life. I miss that. 

[PeterPan]

3 minutes ago, dmmetler said:

I wish they could test everyone the way they test folks who come into the White House or near the President.  If they could test everyone, say, at 1 week increments, that would make group events a lot more tenable, and possibly let us reopen college campuses, go back to K-12 schools, and just plain  start living life. I miss that. 

I'm seeing countries in the caribbean that are going to rapid test all tourists coming in, even from cruise ships. Even though that's not foolproof, just the fact that they think they *can* means our testing is really coming along. 

[Pen]

8 minutes ago, dmmetler said:

I wish they could test everyone the way they test folks who come into the White House or near the President.  If they could test everyone, say, at 1 week increments, that would make group events a lot more tenable, and possibly let us reopen college campuses, go back to K-12 schools, and just plain  start living life. I miss that. 

 

They maybe could using big batch test methods.

 

[ktgrok]

So, so far lots of quotes from attendees in line about not living in fear and wearing a mask. 

[Denise Still in Florida]

On 6/18/2020 at 10:52 PM, Lady Florida. said:

I'm sorry. I'd be very concerned if I lived there. I'd also be concerned if I lived in Jacksonville, FL. It's not safe and it's not right. It's unnecessary.

 

We live in a small bedroom community just outside of Jacksonville. I am not happy at all. I plan to remain cautious. Masks, Hand sanitizer, etc.  But I plan to add to my emergency pantry just in case.  

Of course, I already have a good hurricane emergency supply because hurricane season is here too.  😃

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

Given that the main attraction for the rally has insulted people for wearing masks, said they are "not a good look" and that they are a statement of disapproval of him, I don't see WHY people that support him would wear them. I mean, they like him, they trust him to lead them, and he is anti mask. So, why would they mask? 

Edited to add: I pray I am wrong (literally, praying for them to wear masks). I actually keep hoping it is cancelled at the last minute for some made up reason. 

Well, I can tell you that someone around here who is pro-Trump does not know Trump has spurned mask-wearing. When we were talking about the rally and mask-wearing, he was genuinely surprised I predict less than 50% mask-wearing today. That’s what I think is interesting, from a human behavior standpoint, about perceptions of what other people of the same stripe are doing. Where we live, compliance is almost total, regardless of whether or not the wearer really *agrees* with masking. I think it says something about people conforming to perceived norms and how much mandatory masking boosts the perceived norms and thus, boosts compliance even among those who philosophically don’t agree with it. 

I think, unfortunately, your second point is already a horse-left-the-barn scenario by now. Even if it was cancelled for any reason now, there has already been a great deal of congregating. If the virus has shown up to the rally, it’s getting distributed well and good. I would like to be wrong about it, but I think the most likely outcome by far is people coming away with a viral load and dispersing it back to their home towns. 

[Pen]

5 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

So, so far lots of quotes from attendees in line about not living in fear and wearing a mask. 

 

So far they still seem to be outside. I hope that helps them. And maybe they are getting good sunshine / vit D while waiting. 

Maybe the inside has big enough air space as to be similar to out of doors? Idk.  

Iirc there was transmission in UK at rugby or football games which probably also had a lot of air space

 

[ktgrok]

8 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Oh no :-(. Link? 

A few hundred supporters gathered Saturday morning at Fourth and Cheyenne, the first rally checkpoint, about two blocks from the arena. A majority of them wore red MAGA hats, while others had on hats with patriotic emblems or colors. Some waved red, white and blue banners with the Trump 2020 logo, the American flag, or the “Don’t Tread on Me” flag. Some wore them like capes. Almost none wore masks.

“If it is God’s will that I get coronavirus, that is the will of the Almighty,” said Robert Montanelli, a resident of a Tulsa suburb who chose not to wear a mask. “I will not live in fear.”

Angela, a Tulsa city employee who refused to give her last name, also said she did not want to wear a mask. “I am a healthy young woman,” she said. She compared coronavirus to the flu.

Mike Pellerin, from Austin, Texas, wore a T-shirt saying “Are we dead yet?” “I am 68,” he said proudly. “I don’t feel sick. I don’t have the virus. I’m not going to give it to anyone.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/20/us/trump-rally-tulsa.html

4 minutes ago, square_25 said:

Yeah, that'd be great. 

Although I thought there were false negative issues before people were symptomatic, but after they were able to spread it? Or is that not true? 

There are. The army tested all incoming recruits at one base and isolated the 4 positive. Two weeks later 22 of the previously negative were now positive. 

Also, white house staff are tested regularly, but a person with it still went to a nursing home sans mask, right before finding out she was positive. 

[Terabith]

1 hour ago, matrips said:

Oh wow.  I’ve watched a lot of the protests in various cities on the news and the masks were maybe 50%, if that.  Plus add in all the shouting.  Good for your local community, but not sure that was the norm.

All of the protests in my city specifically mandate mask wearing and social distancing.  The problem comes when police start firing tear gas/ pepper spray.  Social distancing and mask wearing fall apart then.  Police are also pulling masks down/ off of people they encounter.  

[matrips]

18 hours ago, kand said:

That makes sense. That’s definitely the pattern with the recent protests. Everything would be fine all day until the curfew was suddenly enacted and then the teargas and rubber bullets would come out.

Actually they enacted the curfews because the crowds changed at night.  Peaceful protestors during the day, and at night others came in to stir up trouble.  The early curfews ended up working pretty well because it helped keep the second group away.

[matrips]

17 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

And maybe Jesus will show up in a rolls royce and preach the prosperity gospel. Anything is possible. But I wouldn't risk my life on it. And everyone at that rally is not only riskng their own lives, but the lives of everyone they will encounter for the next two weeks. That anyone thinks that is anything other than terribly irresponsible is mind blowing. It isn't exciting, it's terrifying. 

But the same is true of everyone at the protests.  They were among thousands.  How many quarantined after protesting like Cuomo (think it was him) suggested?   I get the indoor vs outdoor but thousands of people shoulder to shoulder is still thousands of people.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, matrips said:

But the same is true of everyone at the protests.  They were among thousands.  How many quarantined after protesting like Cuomo (think it was him) suggested?   I get the indoor vs outdoor but thousands of people shoulder to shoulder is still thousands of people.

I still think there is an important difference between protests (any protest, whether open-up protests or racial justice protests) and a campaign rally. Protests are organized by the people; the invitation to attend a rally is coming down from the top. IMO, that is the most significant difference. 

[Robin M]

Has it been mentioned that - “As previously announced, all rally attendees are given temperature checks before going through security, at which point they are given wristbands, face masks and hand sanitizer.”  in USA Today

[matrips]

11 minutes ago, Quill said:

I still think there is an important difference between protests (any protest, whether open-up protests or racial justice protests) and a campaign rally. Protests are organized by the people; the invitation to attend a rally is coming down from the top. IMO, that is the most significant difference. 

And I don’t see a difference in the risk/spread.  It’s still thousands of people no matter what the reason. 

[PeterPan]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

Well, I can tell you that someone around here who is pro-Trump does not know Trump has spurned mask-wearing. When we were talking about the rally and mask-wearing, he was genuinely surprised I predict less than 50% mask-wearing today.

Well wearing a mask is about protecting the *other* is what y'all keep saying, and he's tested regularly. So people can read that to infer in what they want (that he hates masks, blah blah), but at some point the mask isn't about just "protecting the other" like they're saying. And I think your apparent take (that it's provocative and signaling that no one should wear masks) is interesting. 

[Alte Veste Academy]

1 minute ago, PeterPan said:

Well wearing a mask is about protecting the *other* is what y'all keep saying, and he's tested regularly. So people can read that to infer in what they want (that he hates masks, blah blah), but at some point the mask isn't about just "protecting the other" like they're saying. And I think your apparent take (that it's provocative and signaling that no one should wear masks) is interesting. 

This isn't a "take." This is something he has explicitly stated himself. No inferring required.

[AmandaVT]

Not seeing too many masks yet

 

[ktgrok]

59 minutes ago, matrips said:

But the same is true of everyone at the protests.  They were among thousands.  How many quarantined after protesting like Cuomo (think it was him) suggested?   I get the indoor vs outdoor but thousands of people shoulder to shoulder is still thousands of people.

I think the protests were a very big risk as well, and that's why I didn't go to one. 

12 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Well wearing a mask is about protecting the *other* is what y'all keep saying, and he's tested regularly. So people can read that to infer in what they want (that he hates masks, blah blah), but at some point the mask isn't about just "protecting the other" like they're saying. And I think your apparent take (that it's provocative and signaling that no one should wear masks) is interesting. 

Right...but testing is nowhere near perfect. People can be contagious and test negative. And in this case, he has not just chosen not to wear one, which fine, he's been tested, but outright said they are a "bad look" and has outright SAID they show disapproval of him. So, saying mask wearing shows disapproval of him. Not encouraging of mask wearing, for sure. 

[Happy2BaMom]

49 minutes ago, matrips said:

And I don’t see a difference in the risk/spread.  It’s still thousands of people no matter what the reason. 

 

It's not a difference in risk/spread, it's a matter of whether you think leaders should lead or follow. Given that the US has only ~4% of the world's population but currently 26% of worldwide Covid cases AND 26% of worldwide deaths, one would think our leaders - it's far more than one - would be urging & demonstrating caution, not following the masses (who, in my opinion, have also been also incredibly irresponsible).

 

 

[Frances]

53 minutes ago, PeterPan said:

Well wearing a mask is about protecting the *other* is what y'all keep saying, and he's tested regularly. So people can read that to infer in what they want (that he hates masks, blah blah), but at some point the mask isn't about just "protecting the other" like they're saying. And I think your apparent take (that it's provocative and signaling that no one should wear masks) is interesting. 

We know the tests aren’t perfect and good leaders lead by example. And he has made many negative and even bizarre statements about masks, including most recently that some people are wearing masks to show their disapproval of him, not to protect others. We don’t need to infer what we want or even get it from the media. We have his very own words.

[Rosie_0801]

Take it to the Politics Social Group, People.