The accidental bread baker

[Spy Car]

So in an effort to make life comfortable over the next months I've tried to lay in supplies that I can use to feed my family awhile minimizing the need to venture out. I want to shelter in place as much as possible.

The one fly-in-the-ointment was fresh bread. I froze a few good loafs, but freezer space is dear even with an extra fridge/freezer. Flour has been in short supply in local markets and there has only been white flour. I could not source enough flour to lay in a supply of standard white flour, and the one source I know of for great flour is overwhelmed with orders and ideally flour should be freshly ground.

So I remembered old threads here on TWTM (that go way back) about folks with their own grains mills and grinding their own flour. So I wondered about getting a mill and if I could find wheat and mills seem like they are in short supply.

I was striking out on wheat, when it struck me to try a nearby feed store (that basically does animal supply). There I scored a 50 lb bag of hard red winter wheat. Cheap too, about $25. Woo hoo.

But I still needed a mill. I'd heard of NutriMills and Wonder Mills--and almost ordered a hand cranked Wonder Mill Junior that seems like the sweet spot for a quality hand mill--before the reality of that mount of work that grinding with a hard grinder would be--and I'd always lusted for a German KoMo Classic (that are made from beautifully mitered beechwood and looks so "organic" one could die)--but I'm to cheap to dish out $600 on a mill, no matter how beautiful.

Then I found that the guy who developed KoMo Classics has a new mill that is at least as good or better that are called Mockmills. Instead of being made of beautifully joined and turned wood, these have a housing made of what some call "liquid wood," a "plastic" made mostly from trees. Not as beautiful as the KoMo mills, but the Mockmill grinds finer flour from what I understand. Anyway, I got a shipping date of Friday for arrival.

In the meantime, I've had a starter going since Sunday that I started with (very scarce here) commercial dry yeast. Everyday (morning and night) I've been feeding the yeast with white flour and water (leaving it out to culture, in a bowl covered with a flour cloth. Smells wonderful.

After feeding everyday, I started getting too much "starter." So I jared up some and put in the fridge (to slow down and serve as a back up supply.

But I still had too much. So I thinned some out to pancake batter consistency and cook it like a pancake. I was going to serve some with syrup, until I took a quality control test. Instead of bing "sweet" these flat breads called for savory, so I melted cheese on top and sprinkled on fresh herbs. So delicious! Even having only boring white flour to start with, the multiple days the yeast have had to work on the starter made for a batter/flatbread that was loaded with flavor. Delicious. Much more like a dense tortilla made fresh from stoneground masa than like a typical pancake.

I'm excited thinking about how much flavor I should be able to get from a loaf of bread made with fresh milled whole wheat if the flatbreads made with thinned starter made from white flour only was. I can't wait.

I've aways loved to cook. Rarely made bread because getting fresh milled flour is essential (IMO) and it isn't that easy to get even outside a crisis and to cheap if available. So I will (hopefully) be learning some new skills. I already have pictures (and smells) of happy active yeast in my mind, which is a nice diversion from the current reality, and kind of jazzed to think I may soon be able to supply homemade bread for my family and our dear neighbors. And that I won't feel a need to go marketing for fresh bread.

I hope you all stay safe. We are living in interesting times.

Bill

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Melissa in Australia]

My DH bought 4 20kg sacks of wheat from the animal feed shop just for making bread, as there is no flour to be found anywhere. My brother rang last night and he has done the exact same thing. He (my brother) used his electric coffee grinder and ground up one cup of wheat. He discovered that one cup of wheat makes two cups of flour.

 

keep us posted on how your flour mill goes

 

our energy the last few days has been on getting our very large veggie garden netted in to exclude the Satin Bower Birds. They are ravenous vegetarians that absolutely love eating all veggies and have invited all their friends and relatives in for the feast.

[IfIOnly]

I hadn't thought abour checking the feed store. Thank you for the tip. And thank you for the happy thread!

Been back into bread baking for my family members that can tolerate wheat. Very much enjoying and trying new things. Like these soft pretzels from Alton Brown. A family fav now! Jennifer Garner recently inspired me to try making them. 

 

This is not whole grain, but everyone loves this bread and asks for the recipe. This no knead recipe makes a chewy, wonderfully crusty French bread. I make it for many occasions, but especially when I'm bringing chicken soup to someone not feeling well. It's pretty much no fail and is very forgiving. I often skip steps 3 and 4 and it turns out great. I also double the recipe and make one huge loaf in the Dutch oven vs. 4 smaller loaves.

Quote

1. Mix the dough (10 minutes) This is a very slack dough (also known as a wet or sticky dough) – it won’t form a ball or be immediately elastic like some recipes you might be used to! The dough will be shaggy and somewhat sticky, but it will smooth out as the gluten develops while it rises and again when it’s time to shape.
2. Let the dough rise (1 hour) Kick back, relax, and let your dough do it’s thing!
3. Shape the dough (5 minutes) Lightly flour a cutting board, tip the dough out, and gently form it into a round loaf (watch the videos below to see exactly how we do this!)
4. Let the dough rise one final time (30 minutes) When your dough is shaped, pop it into a medium-sized bowl or proofing basket to rise for 30 minutes while you preheat the oven.
5. Bake (45 minutes) Carefully transfer the bread to your preheated Dutch oven (or use an alternative method!) I like to use a piece of parchment paper to make it easier to lift the bread in and out of the pot. Bake for 30 minutes with the lid on, then remove the lid and bake another 10-15 minutes to help the bread develop more color.
6. Let the bread cool, slice, and enjoy!

 

I took a few pics one time. So pretty.

Also, might as well share a recipe for The Best Chicken Soup You'll Ever Eat. It's great if someone you know needs something really nourishing. I start with a Costco rotisserie chicken, make homemade stock, and then follow with the fresh onion, garlic, ginger, and turmeric. I use lentils instead of pasta too to make it more nutritionally dense and halve the ginger and turmeric for the less adventurous.

Edited March 24, 2020 by IfIOnly

[LMD]

Yum!

Dh has been baking again too - he's a baker by trade. He went and got supplies from the trade wholesalers. It's been lovely!

[appyonthebeach]

Inspiring!  I love to bake but have never ground my own wheat.  Have fun!

[Pippen]

Have fun!  I was just thinking about pulling out my Artisan Bread in 5 MInutes a Day Book. It's been awhile since I've used it.

https://artisanbreadinfive.com/

[Pawz4me]

I have no interest in grinding my own wheat, but I have plenty of flour and thanks to @Quill I’ve had a sourdough starter for about a year. We won’t have to worry about going without bread for awhile. 
 

 

[Guest]

What a great idea, @Spy Car, to cook up the flatbreads from starter discards! I will have to try that. 

It’s a sad thing but I did not have a great abundance of flour before this hit and I haven’t seen flour available to buy the few times I have been out. I haven’t made any bread (just pizza) because I don’t want to use up all my last remaining supply. Boo Hoo! 

[Chris in VA]

What a lovely thread and happy description of your process, Spy Car! 

I am still waiting to see if I am able to go back to Israel or staying here for a while. Torn either way, but we shall see. Idk what the shops have tgere, but there are numerous bakeriez near us so sourcing flour should be fairly easy. 

It is time to make my mil's "Easter Bread". It is a slightly sweet bread made into a round loaf with a braided "nest" on top. I will be in mandatory home quarantine for 14 days, so baking might help the time pass. 

[Jaybee]

There is something so satisfying about making, baking, and eating homemade breads! And oh, the wonderful way it makes your house smell!

[ScoutTN]

Fun thread, thanks! 

The King Arthur site has some great bread recipes. 

[Spy Car]

6 hours ago, Melissa in Australia said:

My DH bought 4 20kg sacks of wheat from the animal feed shop just for making bread, as there is no flour to be found anywhere. My brother rang last night and he has done the exact same thing. He (my brother) used his electric coffee grinder and ground up one cup of wheat. He discovered that one cup of wheat makes two cups of flour.

 

keep us posted on how your flour mill goes

 

our energy the last few days has been on getting our very large veggie garden netted in to exclude the Satin Bower Birds. They are ravenous vegetarians that absolutely love eating all veggies and have invited all their friends and relatives in for the feast.

Good luck netting the garden. Here in Southern California I have two orange trees now full of ripe fruit. I also have a very large herb that has come into maturity. I have a large batch of herbs drying now that I will use to make a Za'atar mix. Za'atar is delicious baked on flat breads. 

Interesting that  you husband had the same idea of getting wheat from a feed store. 

My Mockmill 100 is due to arrive on Friday (fingers crossed). I'll update once I begin grinding. 

Bill

[Spy Car]

3 hours ago, ScoutTN said:

Fun thread, thanks! 

The King Arthur site has some great bread recipes. 

I have been looking there, and at breadtopia, and have been reading books on home milled bread baking on my iPad (plus breaking out old bread books from my personal library). Crash course. Last night I fell asleep reading "Flour Lab: An At-Home Guide to Baking with Freshly Milled Grains." 

What I'm hoping to achieve is--rather than just having a bunch of recipes--is to be able to "understand" the dough and the condition of the yeast. Already with the starter, I'm listening and learning. 

Looking forward to churning out some yeasty loaves.

Bill

 

 

 

[Spy Car]

18 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

Jealous! What a wonderful time to be baking such satisfying loaves. I can smell them across the net. 

I’ll have to dig up my recipe (the one called Gluten Free Bread That Doesn’t Suck) and see what ingredients I have on hand. I do have yeast since a dd did some baking recently. The flour was a blend of oats and rice - I really do have to look that up. Think there’s been a rush on xantham gum? Not likely... but the times are strange. 

Can you keep a yeast starter culture alive on GF grains? If yes, you might want to get a starter going.

Once a starter is strong you can stick some in a jar in the fridge (that only needs occasional feeding since it is nearly dormant) instead of twice daily feedings. That way you can conserve yeast packs. They have been scarce here.

I lucked out and was in a market just as the yeast was restocked. Only took one pack (a 3 pack) so there was a supply for others. So keeping the yeast alive and happy is important.

Bill

 

Edited March 24, 2020 by Spy Car

[Spy Car]

15 minutes ago, Dotwithaperiod said:

Anyone interested in bread baking should look up Seamus Blackley, the famous game designer of the 90’s, helped create Xbox, etc. He’s really into bread. Really.  He’s collected ancient yeasts, sent them to anyone who wanted to try it. His twitter feed is always great fun, with so many people giving hints and showing off their loaves.

Thanks for the tip. I will check it out. I'm totally into this.

Bill

 

 

[Spy Car]

6 hours ago, IfIOnly said:

I hadn't thought abour checking the feed store. Thank you for the tip. And thank you for the happy thread!

Been back into bread baking for my family members that can tolerate wheat. Very much enjoying and trying new things. Like these soft pretzels from Alton Brown. A family fav now! Jennifer Garner recently inspired me to try making them. 

 

This is not whole grain, but everyone loves this bread and asks for the recipe. This no knead recipe makes a chewy, wonderfully crusty French bread. I make it for many occasions, but especially when I'm bringing chicken soup to someone not feeling well. It's pretty much no fail and is very forgiving. I often skip steps 3 and 4 and it turns out great. I also double the recipe and make one huge loaf in the Dutch oven vs. 4 smaller loaves.

 

I took a few pics one time. So pretty.

Also, might as well share a recipe for The Best Chicken Soup You'll Ever Eat. It's great if someone you know needs something really nourishing. I start with a Costco rotisserie chicken, make homemade stock, and then follow with the fresh onion, garlic, ginger, and turmeric. I use lentils instead of pasta too to make it more nutritionally dense and halve the ginger and turmeric for the less adventurous.

The bread looks delicious. Soft pretzels are a great idea too.

As is chicken soup. Being a frugal cook, I always turn roast chicken bones and frames into stock. Delicious. I also stocked a bunch of fresh turmeric root (aka "haldi") which has been appearing in some local markets more and more. Looks similar to ginger (except its orange). I peeled a bunch and froze it. Doesn't keep that well on a counter. Also have ginger and coconut. And lemongrass growing in my herb garden. 

Nothing like good chicken soup.

Bill

 

[Spy Car]

5 minutes ago, Seasider too said:

 

Hey I think I will try that starter idea, thanks for the encouragement. No idea how successful it might be without actual wheat, but it will be a great experiment. Perhaps in the face of overwhelming odds (thinking of Andy Weir), it’ll work! Off to pull out that old recipe and figure this out.

BTW back in the day, I had a Nutrimill. It was loud and dusty. The  mill options you describe in your OP sound much more suited to the art of making beautiful bread.

 

Research GF starters. Having a culture going feels inspiring to me. Feels like "life," if that makes sense. And preserves precious yeast packs.

The Mockmill I got is supposed to be the bomb. Not as pretty as the KoMo mills (which are artworks) but they do just as good (or better) job. I got the less expensive model that's only half as fast at grinding. Still plenty fast enough for me.

Unlike the old Nutramills, the Mockmills do not create "dust" and make a finer flour. Not that I'd turn down a NutraMill in this moment.

Bill 

[Selkie]

For anyone who doesn't eat flour or can't find it in stores, these quinoa flatbreads are pretty tasty:

https://monkeyandmekitchenadventures.com/quinoa-flatbread/

[Carol in Cal.]

My dad used to make pancakes or waffles for dinner every Sunday night.  He would always save some of the batter to use as an informal starter for the batch the next week, even though his recipe was simple to the point of absurdity, being based on Bisquick.  

[4Kiddos]

You might really enjoy the blog The Perfect Loaf by Marizio. He has really great information and just posted on how to keep a smaller starter.

I also enjoy Dan Larn on Instagram. His bread is art! After perusing there, you will need to purchase a lame. 🙂 I have one from Saint Germaine Bakery which is lovely.

[Spy Car]

1 hour ago, 4Kiddos said:

You might really enjoy the blog The Perfect Loaf by Marizio. He has really great information and just posted on how to keep a smaller starter.

I also enjoy Dan Larn on Instagram. His bread is art! After perusing there, you will need to purchase a lame. 🙂 I have one from Saint Germaine Bakery which is lovely.

I looked at lames. I laughed that the one sold at breadtopia uses a replaceable double edged razor (since the cuts should be sharp).

I have hundreds of blades stashed (and at least at the moment am growing a "crisis-mode" beard, lol) so being the frugal (cheapskate) that I am, I will just use my razor blades to stash the bread dough. 

I will check out Dan Larn.

My motto has always been that anything worth doing is worth overdoing. LOL.

Bill

 

 

[Spy Car]

46 minutes ago, parent said:

I buy some goods, including SAF yeast from a local restaurant supplier.  I always buy at least 2 lbs at a time and keep the extra in my freezer.  My mom told me all the stores in CA were out of yeast (and I saw King Arthur and Amazon were too), so I picked up 3 lbs, mailed her one. and put 2 in the freezer.  Anyway, you could try your local restaurant suppliers and see if they will do small orders.  They probably aren't doing a lot of business anyway, right now.  Other things I order: pita bread frozen by the case, gyro meat frozen, frozen avocado pulp (eh, not as good as fresh), and gallons of cooking wine and vinegar.  Often things are large sizes or whole cases but this supplier lets me buy single pounds of yeast rather than a case.  Anyway, might be a source for some unable to find products.

Good ideas. At the moment I'm well supplied.

I'm really hoping I don't need to venture beyond my home for a while. I will have 2 packs of commercial dry yeast as a backup to the back up of portion of this culture that's in a jar in the fridge, which all backs up the colony I've got going in a covered bowl in the kitchen. Plus one sourdough starter arriving with the mill.

I could use some Durham Wheat to grind for Semolina to make pasta. I've been making pasta for 40 years with Semolina (which all the cookbooks I read at the time said was impossible for a home cook).

And I wouldn't mind having some Rye or some Soft White Wheat, or Spelt or other more exotic varieties. But I'm stoked to have 50 lbs of Hard Red Winter Wheat. If I could have one variety, this would be it. Blessed.

If I have to make pasta with fresh Hard Red Winter Wheat flour, I can deal. Plus I have a big bag of Corn Meal. I think adding a small about of Corn Meal to Wheat Flour will give noodles a "tooth" more like Semolina.

I just fed my yeast colony its evening meal. Twice a day and visit the colony and drink in the smell and the texture and the activity. Very cool. I feel responsible for the life of this colony. So far, so healthy.

I took our dear neighbors a flat bread today that I pan fried and oven finished made from excess starter. I brushed it with Olive Oil and sprinkled on a health amount of Za'atar.

Za'atar is a mix of dried Syrian Oregano (from my garden), Roasted Sesame Seeds, and Sumac (a berry that has a pleasant lemony aspect). Give the flatbread a wonderful herb taste. The neighbors were very happy. And I took them a stew. They are older and we love them very much. Feeds nice to bring them treats.

BTW Flatbreads made from thinned starter (the excess that needs to go) that's been going for a few days are super flavorful. I imagine the starter will develop more and more complex flavors over time and I can't wait until I can feed the colony on fresh ground wheat flour. Cooked like "pancakes" they are more like some sort of artisanal tortillas in texture. And even plain white flour becomes very complex tasting.

Had (10) 5 gallon food pails arrive today via Home Depot delivery. Weirdly, the 10 pack of lids is shipping separately. Arriving Friday. On Friday the mill is supposed to arrive as well. Can't wait to get the grain stored and to start milling and baking.

Bill

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 25, 2020 by Spy Car

[Spy Car]

2 minutes ago, parent said:

I order wheat from a natural foods co-op.  I am a member of 2 in my area.  You could check to see if one is available where you live.  I order two 50 lb bags in spring and fall.

There is a co-op in Santa Monica. I bet they could get wheat.

Even closer to me (and certainly cheaper) is another really big feed store. I wanted to have pails before buying anymore grain. Don't really even want to venture out. But with another bag I could start distributing bread dough to other neighbors. Mulling over one last trip out.

Bill

 

[Spy Car]

3 minutes ago, parent said:

It is cool and dry here so I just keep it in the original bags in a cellar, and the one I'm using just gets a rolled top with bag clip in pantry.  We do have a feed store that sells some wheat, but the supply/variety is limited.  I haven't purchased from them.

Sounds like you have a new fancy mill on the way.  I have my mom's old one, which is noisy, and I lost the filter so it blows dust.  It mills well, so I solve the problems by setting it outside while milling.

I have a large Tuff Shed that's tucked into a shaded grove of trees that stay cools and dry and seems completely rodent proof. But I don't want to risk having vermin or bugs. I would like to take a most of the non-perishable food that I have in the house now and move it outback to maintain a sense of normalcy. 

If I had an old mill I'd use it. I may mill outside under a covered breeze-way anyway. I have an old butcher block I can work on out there. To grind and kneed.

I am excited about the Mockmill. I've never owned a mill before, so rarely baked bread. Having fresh ground flour will be game changing. If we are going to be locked in, might as well make the most of the situation.

I can't believe I almost ordered a hand cranked mill. The Wondermill Juniors (manual) seem great for emergencies, but...

Could you improvise some sort of filter for your mill? Seems worth thinking about.

Bill

 

 

 

 

 

[Pippen]

17 hours ago, WendyAndMilo said:

I found that my 8-months-past-date (so about 2 years old) dry yeast is still good.  It's been kept in the fridge, but the first time I tried it, nothing.  So I add a bit of sugar to each batch and it's been marvelous.  Don't throw out old yeast!

I've had old yeast work really well for slow rise loaves. 

[MeaganS]

I have an old school mill that is actually a stone mill that I got from my MIL when she didn't want it any more (google Golden Grain Mill to see what I mean). I have never successfully made good bread with flour from it. It makes the flour pretty fine, and I've made pancakes, muffins, etc. But all my bread from it turns out flat. It's like the gluten just won't develop or something. We've tried sourdough starter, mixed with white flour, etc. Is this a problem any of you have had with home ground flours? Should I just get a newer fancy mill? Or do you have any tips? DH loves baking and the science of it and he hasn't been able to crack it yet.

[Spy Car]

2 hours ago, parent said:

I would use buckets in CA.

I have friend with a hand crank mill.  She bought it for emergencices but she uses it because she says it is good exercise 🙄  she has an electric one too.  I am not interested.  I can wait for the power to come on before milling.

My husband cut some foam for a  new filter but the cells are more closed so it does not work well.  The outdoor trick is good, because the kids don't wake up when I mill at 5am, and the dust mitigation.  There is a roof overhang, so it doesn't matter if it is snowing or raining.

I need to bake bread today actually.  It is best to only grind as much flour as you need for your recipe because the flour is much better when fresh.

Could you fashion a cloth sack to serve as a filter? 

The Wondermill Junior looks like an excellent hand crank mill. But I have plenty of things to do to get my exercise. LOL.

I'm planning on grinding fresh. Maybe doing a small amount as an emergency supply in case of power outage.

Made another (post Midnight) pancake/flatbread from a thinned out starter batter. So delicious. If my baking skills didn't advance beyond this, I'd still be happy.

Bill

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 25, 2020 by Spy Car

[Spy Car]

40 minutes ago, MeaganS said:

I have an old school mill that is actually a stone mill that I got from my MIL when she didn't want it any more (google Golden Grain Mill to see what I mean). I have never successfully made good bread with flour from it. It makes the flour pretty fine, and I've made pancakes, muffins, etc. But all my bread from it turns out flat. It's like the gluten just won't develop or something. We've tried sourdough starter, mixed with white flour, etc. Is this a problem any of you have had with home ground flours? Should I just get a newer fancy mill? Or do you have any tips? DH loves baking and the science of it and he hasn't been able to crack it yet.

I know nothing--being a novice bread baker--but I think the issue you are having is due to the bran that remains in the flour from home milling. Evidently the bran act like "razor blades" that cut the gluten strands.

A solution is to sift-out some of the bran. I would try that before getting a new mill. You might also consider double milling to get a finer flour if coarseness is an issue.

But I think your main issue is too much bran cutting you gluten strands. Sift it out.

Bill (the big expert  )

 

BTW The Golden Grain Mill looks robust. Like you could feed an army. Very cool.

Edited March 25, 2020 by Spy Car

[cjzimmer1]

44 minutes ago, MeaganS said:

I have an old school mill that is actually a stone mill that I got from my MIL when she didn't want it any more (google Golden Grain Mill to see what I mean). I have never successfully made good bread with flour from it. It makes the flour pretty fine, and I've made pancakes, muffins, etc. But all my bread from it turns out flat. It's like the gluten just won't develop or something. We've tried sourdough starter, mixed with white flour, etc. Is this a problem any of you have had with home ground flours? Should I just get a newer fancy mill? Or do you have any tips? DH loves baking and the science of it and he hasn't been able to crack it yet.

Try this recipe. 

http://tadmitchell.com/recipe/wheat-bread/

Hands down the best recipe I've found for fresh ground wheat bread.  I used to have the stone mill (and got rid of it because I couldn't handle the noise, mess and slowness.  I have a nutrigrain mill now).  But no matter what I've used to grind it.  This recipe has worked.  I have a Bosch mixer, I've never tried kneading by hand.

Edited March 25, 2020 by cjzimmer1

[Spy Car]

On 3/24/2020 at 4:26 AM, Quill said:

What a great idea, @Spy Car, to cook up the flatbreads from starter discards! I will have to try that. 

It’s a sad thing but I did not have a great abundance of flour before this hit and I haven’t seen flour available to buy the few times I have been out. I haven’t made any bread (just pizza) because I don’t want to use up all my last remaining supply. Boo Hoo! 

Flour has been scarce here too. I managed to get 2 bags of All Purpose flour and my wife found one. Not enough to keep us in bread for an extended quarantine (hence the mill idea, since I found a bag of wheat).

If you do have "discards" from your starter at some point, do try thinning it out with water (pancake batter consistency) and pan frying it. All the yeastiness makes it very tasty. Not "pancake-like (at all) but very savor. I even encrusted one with cheddar cheese. Really delicious.

 I hope a supply of flour falls into your lap soon.

Loved the pictures from your trip, BTW. 

Stay safe.

Bill

 

 

[Spy Car]

On 3/24/2020 at 2:23 AM, LMD said:

Yum!

Dh has been baking again too - he's a baker by trade. He went and got supplies from the trade wholesalers. It's been lovely!

Good to know people in the trade and to have a professional baker in the family.

Lucky woman!

Bill

[Spy Car]

On 3/24/2020 at 3:11 AM, Pawz4me said:

I have no interest in grinding my own wheat, but I have plenty of flour and thanks to @Quill I’ve had a sourdough starter for about a year. We won’t have to worry about going without bread for awhile. 
 

 

That looks so good. I can almost smell it from seeing it.

Bill

 

[IfIOnly]

1 hour ago, MeaganS said:

I have an old school mill that is actually a stone mill that I got from my MIL when she didn't want it any more (google Golden Grain Mill to see what I mean). I have never successfully made good bread with flour from it. It makes the flour pretty fine, and I've made pancakes, muffins, etc. But all my bread from it turns out flat. It's like the gluten just won't develop or something. We've tried sourdough starter, mixed with white flour, etc. Is this a problem any of you have had with home ground flours? Should I just get a newer fancy mill? Or do you have any tips? DH loves baking and the science of it and he hasn't been able to crack it yet.

Are you using hard red or white (my fav) wheat berries? Soft white berries make great quick breads like pancakes and muffins but not great slow rise bread products.

 

[Spy Car]

On 3/24/2020 at 4:58 AM, Chris in VA said:

What a lovely thread and happy description of your process, Spy Car! 

I am still waiting to see if I am able to go back to Israel or staying here for a while. Torn either way, but we shall see. Idk what the shops have tgere, but there are numerous bakeriez near us so sourcing flour should be fairly easy. 

It is time to make my mil's "Easter Bread". It is a slightly sweet bread made into a round loaf with a braided "nest" on top. I will be in mandatory home quarantine for 14 days, so baking might help the time pass. 

I didn't realize you were home. Perhaps for the best?

The little flatbreads I've been making resemble Maneesh (Za'atar bread). My large Za'atar/Herb garden is just hitting early maturity, and it has been a "wet" winter/spring by SoCal standards, so I'm having a great crop. A basket of Za'atar herbs are drying now. And I loaded up on sesame seeds and sumac to keep my Za'atar mix supply up.

I'm hoping that baking will keep my mind occupied and focused on the beauty of life.

Wishing you peace.

Bill

 

 

[importswim]

I pulled out my grain mill (Nutrimill) 2 days ago! I haven't used it in about 8 years. It still mills nicely! I used to use it every day and I didn't realize how much I missed making things with the flour from it. I have some hard red wheat berries, but my favorite are soft white. 

[MeaganS]

6 hours ago, Spy Car said:

I know nothing--being a novice bread baker--but I think the issue you are having is due to the bran that remains in the flour from home milling. Evidently the bran act like "razor blades" that cut the gluten strands.

A solution is to sift-out some of the bran. I would try that before getting a new mill. You might also consider double milling to get a finer flour if coarseness is an issue.

But I think your main issue is too much bran cutting you gluten strands. Sift it out.

Bill (the big expert  )

 

BTW The Golden Grain Mill looks robust. Like you could feed an army. Very cool.

 

That's an interesting angle we haven't explored. How would one go about sifting out the bran? Is there a tool for that? I may have to get it back out and try again. I'll let ya'll know the results if it works. 

And yeah, that mill is a beast. And crazy heavy too. 

 

Edited: I Googled it. I'm going to give it a try. 

Edited March 25, 2020 by MeaganS

[Spy Car]

6 hours ago, MeaganS said:

 

That's an interesting angle we haven't explored. How would one go about sifting out the bran? Is there a tool for that? I may have to get it back out and try again. I'll let ya'll know the results if it works. 

And yeah, that mill is a beast. And crazy heavy too. 

 

Edited: I Googled it. I'm going to give it a try. 

And you can save the bran (refrigerate if possible) and make cereal or muffins, etc.

I think sifting will be the ticket. Let me know. Much easier/cheaper than replacing "the beast."

And if you are like me, I get nostalgic using cooking gear that was passed down in my family.

Bill

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Spy Car]

So my first whole wheat sourdough loaf made from Hard Winter Red Wheat (sifted) flour milled in my new Mockmill 100.

I did not have a digital scale (now I do) so I just decided to wing the proportions by "feel." Risky for a novice like me,  but the loaf doesn't look too bad for a first attempt. Smells great.

Bill

 

[Liz CA]

Welcome to the bread bakers' club.

Have been baking sourdough (without yeast) for years now. Every loaf is individual and wonderful. I will bet that you will never return to store bought bread.

[appyonthebeach]

That looks like an artisan loaf that I'd buy at a bakery.  I hope it's delicious!

[Spy Car]

2 hours ago, happyonthebeach said:

That looks like an artisan loaf that I'd buy at a bakery.  I hope it's delicious!

 

2 hours ago, Liz CA said:

Welcome to the bread bakers' club.

Have been baking sourdough (without yeast) for years now. Every loaf is individual and wonderful. I will bet that you will never return to store bought bread.

Thanks. How long does a starter that began with commercial yeast need to live (at room temp) to be considered a "real" sourdough culture? I must imagine that after a week that I've got some natural yeasts from the air and the "feeder" wheat.

2 hours ago, happyonthebeach said:

That looks like an artisan loaf that I'd buy at a bakery.  I hope it's delicious!

We had half a loaf for dinner. It turned out better that I could have hoped for. Really good. Nice crust (the way my wife likes) and a very nice crumb. Dense but light at the same time. Super happy with the texture, especially a this had no white flour (maybe a lillte from the starter.

Definitely beginner's luck.

Bill

 

 

[Spy Car]

So like all novice bread bakers (especially those dealing with 100% whole wheat sourdough) I had a screw up.

I made a really huge loaf (overly ambitious) that I undercooked. Then I put it back in the oven and over cooked it.

It was tasty (in its own way) but one better have sound teeth. LOL.

So what to do? And did I mention it was a HUGE loaf? Huge!

I'm not about to waste food while we are in lock-down (and it grates on my frugal nature in any case).

So I took one third of the loaf (a lot) and broke it into pieces, soaked them in water to soften (which took longer than expected). Then made a savoy bread pudding as a side dish with dinner (baked with herbs, milk, and eggs). It was really good. Got eaten up by the family with gusto.

Another third I broke into pieces and baked some more. My plan (yet to finish) is to break it up smaller and to have a grape-nuts like cereal. I think this will work.

But the unexpected use of the remaining third was to made Russian style Kvass. I took toasted pieces, put them in a pitcher of water, added sugar, then added a little sourdough starter. And let it sit out for a couple of days on the counter.

Just now I have a delicious bubbly beverage that tastes alive. My wife won't touch it, but my son tried it (and liked it, until he found out what it is). LOL.

Looks like I'll be drinking my Kvass alone. Yum!

 

Bill

 

 

[KungFuPanda]

I wanna play! I did sourdough this week. It’s not burned. I use the malt and it makes it a bit darker. It’s absolutely imperfect and completely delicious. 

[Spy Car]

3 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

I wanna play! I did sourdough this week. It’s not burned. I use the malt and it makes it a bit darker. It’s absolutely imperfect and completely delicious. 

That looks awesome!

Bill

[KungFuPanda]

6 hours ago, Spy Car said:

That looks awesome!

Bill

Thanks!  I didn’t grow up eating sourdough so my first experience was with San Francisco sourdough when I moved to CA at 18. I’ve spent my life chasing that high.  Wild Maryland yeast doesn’t taste that distinctive, but I find that a very wet and somewhat neglected starter gives me that deep, sour flavor I crave.  

[Spy Car]

1 hour ago, KungFuPanda said:

Thanks!  I didn’t grow up eating sourdough so my first experience was with San Francisco sourdough when I moved to CA at 18. I’ve spent my life chasing that high.  Wild Maryland yeast doesn’t taste that distinctive, but I find that a very wet and somewhat neglected starter gives me that deep, sour flavor I crave.  

Your loaf looks absolutely beautiful.

In my limited (new) experience, the loaf I've made that's been most sour was the one I didn't get around to baking and then stashed in the fridge a couple of days (too busy planting "crops"). It was also a "wet" dough.

Getting the lightness of a loaf like yours has been a challenge that I have not surmounted. May not be possible with whole wheat flour. But I'm not complaining. Envious, maybe.

My crackers (make from "discard" starter) have been the bomb! They have all that good sour flavor. So if you have spare starter you need to bet rid of, try baking thinned starter batter in a well-oiled pan. Yum!

Bill

 

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by Spy Car

[Familia]

In my experience, to tell when a loaf of bread is done, taking its temperature is the most foolproof method.  Even if it leave a little hole in your beautiful creation.  Shoot for at least 190 F.

If it is nearing that temp and the outside is about as dark as I want it, I have found it helpful to put it back in the oven for a few mins, turning the oven off at the this time.  Opening the oven causes the heating element to turn on - which could result in an overdone crust.  So, turning it off completes the baking without overdoing the crust.  

Happy baking!

[Spy Car]

1 hour ago, Familia said:

In my experience, to tell when a loaf of bread is done, taking its temperature is the most foolproof method.  Even if it leave a little hole in your beautiful creation.  Shoot for at least 190 F.

If it is nearing that temp and the outside is about as dark as I want it, I have found it helpful to put it back in the oven for a few mins, turning the oven off at the this time.  Opening the oven causes the heating element to turn on - which could result in an overdone crust.  So, turning it off completes the baking without overdoing the crust.  

Happy baking!

I don't know why, but taking internal temps with an instant read thermometer has not been a reliable way for me to assure the dense whole wheat loaves I've been making are done.

The slightly raw one I had was over 200. A better test for me (with these style loafs) had been giving the bottom a "knock" and getting a good hollow sound. But I'd prefer just getting an internal temp any day of the week. I think I'll stick with more "normal" sized loafs for now, as I've had good success with them. Huge loafs have been trickier thus far.

Bill

[DesertBlossom]

My very first loaf. I could tell you a dozen things I should have done differently. And I'm now aware that I need some more tools and gadgets and fancy sounding flour. This could turn out to be an expensive hobby. 😆

[Spy Car]

41 minutes ago, DesertBlossom said:

My very first loaf. I could tell you a dozen things I should have done differently. And I'm now aware that I need some more tools and gadgets and fancy sounding flour. This could turn out to be an expensive hobby. 😆

Looking good!

You are clearly a natural. Indulge your new hobby. You have talent!

Bill