Super bowl halftime show and culture

[Guest]

3 hours ago, LucyStoner said:

Nothing about the NFL screams wholesome family entertainment to me.  It’s not a sport we follow or watch.  I understand that some people love it but I just don’t think very much of the entire NFL.  

I’m with you there. I have watched one Superbowl in the history of superbowls. It was the one a few years ago the Ravens were in. 

I read a book last year called Against Football, which articulated a lot of the things I don’t like about pro football. But that is something I keep my mouth shut about because numerous people I know fanatically defend the sport. 

[Guest]

18 hours ago, Sneezyone said:

You never know. I just saw this today on HuffPost. https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5e33188bc5b611ac94d1717 

One of the bravest things I ever did was a boudoir shoot for my DH. I have pics of him too so, yeah, not some subordinate thing. I love that I did it. I love that I can look at myself and see what he sees. I looked great! My sexuality is part of me too and, at that time especially, I felt very, very, confident in it.

But did you have your boudoir shots made into a billboard and posted out on I-95? 

I have nothing against boudoir photography for one’s own pleasure/for one’s partner. (And now I’m thinking of the old Cheers episode where Lilleth had boudoir photos made for Frasier and she was wearing a suit and a stony expression in every shot.😄) I almost had boudoir photos done in my 20s. Although in the current era I think I would be afraid the photographer might use photos for purposes I didn’t agree to or plan. 

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, Quill said:

But did you have your boudoir shots made into a billboard and posted out on I-95? 

I have nothing against boudoir photography for one’s own pleasure/for one’s partner. (And now I’m thinking of the old Cheers episode where Lilleth had boudoir photos made for Frasier and she was wearing a suit and a stony expression in every shot.😄) I almost had boudoir photos done in my 20s. Although in the current era I think I would be afraid the photographer might use photos for purposes I didn’t agree to or plan. 

Nope, I didn’t, but I’d honestly be ok with any of the shots I chose being used that way. They were great and very tasteful. Some Josephine Baker throwbacks in there too. No regrets.

[Carrie12345]

12 hours ago, Quill said:

I’d like to answer that question as the mother of a 15yo boy who was watching with me. What I didn’t like about him watching that is it’s a step backwards for what we (society we) *say* we want in the realm of male perceptions of women. I have been raising my boys with the narrative of: “women are strong, women are smart, women are essential members of society.” But this display felt to me like the message, “Just kidding! Women are meant for sexual jollies! Women shouldn’t have an ounce of fat on their bodies and should be super-fit and utterly gorgeous, despite being 40+!” 

Gag. 

If it were a young daughter watching with me, I would be concerned that she’s getting the message that all that stuff about being strong and smart is just lip-service; what society really wants out of women is tiny clothing, bare butts and simulated sex displays. 

While I wouldn’t call the level of risqué-ness my cup of tea, I’m not concerned that my 9 and 12yos  boys or 16 and 17yo dds saw it. 20-something years ago, when I was a kid, I think there was more potential for the “wrong message” so to speak.

My kids are raised in a different world where these types of performances are viewed in a different context than I was. Individual women are just that, individual. And there’s nothing wrong with consensual jollies.    The idea that two incredible specimens erase that isn’t something I worry about in their overall world view. I also don’t worry that Lizzo encourages obesity or Billie Eilish encourages completely concealing one’s body.  Each woman does what feels best to her, for her, and that is exactly what I see in my own young women.

Focusing on two women to represent everyone is never going to be appropriate, and undermines the big picture.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Carrie12345

[Sneezyone]

13 minutes ago, OKBud said:

What made them tasteful?

They’re very retro, roaring 20s glam. Most are similar to what you’d find in a lingerie catalogue. Only a couple are nude.

It’s something I couldn’t imagine myself doing in my teens or 20s b/c my self consciousness was off the charts. The older I got tho, the more I thought that I didn’t just want to be remembered (or to remember myself) as an old lady but as an incredibly beautiful, confident, powerful woman in my prime. And when I look at those photos, that’s what I see. 

[Momto6inIN]

12 hours ago, SeaConquest said:

Nothing that went on during the Super Bowl half-time show even remotely resembled most strip clubs today, except perhaps in the minds of all the puritans and Beckys in this country who have internalized misogyny, IMHO.

Which is exactly why it's inappropriate - it glamorizes something that is NOT glamorous and makes us forget the women who feel forced into that kind of life.

I have no idea what a Becky is ... someone want to enlighten me?

[Ausmumof3]

14 hours ago, regentrude said:

I recently spoke with a friend/acquaintance who has started working in a strip club and likes it much more than a desk job because of the physical aspect. This person, who holds a college degree and had several interesting jobs before, had a quite positive attitude towards her job. It greatly puzzled me, because in my mind, I associate strip clubs with exploitation and objectification of women, so it was interesting to hear another side of it. 

I firmly believe any woman should be allowed to choose for herself what to do with her body - but that only works if she actually has options and is empowered to make choices. The problem is women being forced into these jobs for lack of alternatives. That, IMO, gives this industry an unsavory feel. 

I have to say I have read a couple of things where women feel like this while they are doing the work but after a while become burnt out and eventually have a very different opinion.  Not to say that will be your friends experience or is universal it’s only anecdotal.  As a choice it seems to be kinder to younger women and become more difficult as they age.  This is obviously less of a problem for those who have other options.  

[Carrie12345]

14 hours ago, Quill said:

I’d like to answer that question as the mother of a 15yo boy who was watching with me. What I didn’t like about him watching that is it’s a step backwards for what we (society we) *say* we want in the realm of male perceptions of women. I have been raising my boys with the narrative of: “women are strong, women are smart, women are essential members of society.” But this display felt to me like the message, “Just kidding! Women are meant for sexual jollies! Women shouldn’t have an ounce of fat on their bodies and should be super-fit and utterly gorgeous, despite being 40+!” 

Gag. 

If it were a young daughter watching with me, I would be concerned that she’s getting the message that all that stuff about being strong and smart is just lip-service; what society really wants out of women is tiny clothing, bare butts and simulated sex displays. 

I’m quoting again, not to harp, but because I didn’t catch it before.

Who made a rule that overtly sexy women can’t also be strong, smart, essential members of society? What is it that makes you think your sons think that’s the rule?  Does it also mean that I now have to believe that Adam Levine’s abs starved his brain? Because that would break my heart. And be really disrespectful of a guy I haven’t even had the chance to really get to know! And dismissive of the things I do know about him.

[Carrie12345]

1 minute ago, OKBud said:

 

No one said that. No one. 

Being sexy, even overtly, is subjective and not the same as playing at sex work for entertainment, which is self-evidently (imo) deleterious to The Common, such as it is. 

Quills position, As I read it, was that this performance would undermine the message she professes.

[Katy]

11 hours ago, KungFuPanda said:

My humble opinion is that people were triggered by the very presence of a pole.  She didn't really DO anything "grindy" with it.  She climbed it, spun around, and at one point bent and straightened her knees with her back to it.  As far as sexual moves with a pole goes I'm not sure she even did "those" moves.  I'm no pole dancing expert, but this seemed more like a stunting, circus-y version of what you can do with a pole. I wonder if that's why she doesn't have bingo wings?

 

 

I suspect that's for a few reasons - she never had a huge weight fluctuation, she clearly lifts weights (which releases hormones that tighten skin), and possibly plastic surgery. 

[hjffkj]

People were talking about the cages earlier representing sex trafficking but I believe it was more a criticism of immigration issues and the separation of families that has happened.  That would make more sense since it goes with the song sung at the time and the flag outfit j lo wears.

Not too on topic but I wanted to clarify that and hadn't seen it done. May have missed that though.

[Guest]

40 minutes ago, Carrie12345 said:

Quills position, As I read it, was that this performance would undermine the message she professes.

I already explained this upthread. 

[MercyA]

5 minutes ago, OKBud said:

Sidenote, remember a few years ago on this forum when no one would type the word "sex."

S*x LOL

I asked about it once. 

I thought that was so we got less unwanted traffic here?

[SKL]

57 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

People were talking about the cages earlier representing sex trafficking but I believe it was more a criticism of immigration issues and the separation of families that has happened.  That would make more sense since it goes with the song sung at the time and the flag outfit j lo wears.

Not too on topic but I wanted to clarify that and hadn't seen it done. May have missed that though.

I do think they meant what you thought.  But the point made on the thread was that that "message" was lost on many.  And it was not that anyone thought she was trying to make reference to human trafficking, but that the cages could be seen as a hurtful or dismissive reference to the abuse / exploitation of girls.  (This was not my opinion - I did not notice the cages at all.)

[Carrie12345]

1 hour ago, OKBud said:

 

So you seriously think that Quill tells her children that sexy women are not smart? That they can not be smart? 

Again, "being sexy" and "being meant for sexual jollies" and "reducible to sexual value" are separate things. 

That’s not what I said. I questioned why the performance in question would be taken as “Just kidding! Women are meant for sexual jollies” after being taught that they’re strong, smart, etc. Quill STATED that that’s how she felt. I inquired as to why that was. What did I do that was so wrong?

[EmseB]

@Plum you probably need to delete that pic...we can't post any on the forum due to copyright stuff.

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, Plum said:

It probably didn't help that from the pictures I've seen, at one point she was wearing leather chaps and her dancers were all wearing leather gear and caps. BDSM images came to mind. Mixed messages to say the least. 

 

There are men who like to be bound up and bossed around too...by women and other men. BDSM isn't just a female submissive thing.

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, Plum said:

And there were men in that photo, too. I'm not sure what your point is. Girls were in the cages, right? 

 

There were KIDS in cages of indeterminate gender in an entirely different part of the show with different costuming (the flags?!). You mentioned the leather attire as if that had something to do with trafficking or the cages. It doesn't. It didn't.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Sneezyone

[Jean in Newcastle]

Both women did a medley of their best known hits.  Costuming went with each hit.  A medley by definition means that the pieces were not supposed to be one unified whole other than spanning the performance history of each artist.  So of course different parts of the show had different images and messages. 

My understanding (from different articles I've read) is that artists are not paid for their half time performances.  They do it for promotion reasons and probably a certain amount of bragging rights.  Which I add mainly to say why artists use medleys in these shows and not necessarily new songs - because they are building on song and name recognition. 

[Scarlett]

Am I the only one who thought those kids were in Cinderella coaches?  😂

[LucyStoner]

6 hours ago, Quill said:

I’m with you there. I have watched one Superbowl in the history of superbowls. It was the one a few years ago the Ravens were in. 

I read a book last year called Against Football, which articulated a lot of the things I don’t like about pro football. But that is something I keep my mouth shut about because numerous people I know fanatically defend the sport. 

the only exposure to football my sons have had is watching my nephews clips (he played college ball at a lower division school and is now a teacher/coach) + a few weeks ago we met up at a family friendly eatery that had the playoff game on when our local team was still on it.  My older son literally put on his noise cancelling headphones and sat under one of the screens reading a book of poetry.  It was comical to watch him oblivious to the game.  We stayed long enough to to eat a light dinner and slice of birthday cake for our friend and then made our exit.   I get that people like the sport and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that (I have my own sports I follow and love that other people don’t like for various reasons) but I do have big issues with the NFL and also head injuries in children.  

Edited February 5, 2020 by LucyStoner

[TCB]

20 hours ago, Kassia said:

 

We bought our daughter a pole when she was 12.  It's set up in the middle of our living room.  She does pole, silks, hand balance, juggling, trapeze...many circus arts.  The strength required to do the pole well is incredible!  She doesn't use it to be sexy - it's an athletic and artistic piece of equipment for her.  She is 17.

I would imagine she probably doesn't wear the same sort of clothing that J Lo wore while she does it though.

[umsami]

On 2/4/2020 at 11:16 AM, Sneezyone said:

 

Her maiden name is of Arabic origin. She’s not Muslim and was raised in a primarily Catholic Latin country. 

ETA: you do realize that ululations are common vocalizations in Latin America, South Asia and parts of Africa, right? It also occurs among Jews. What does that have to do with Islam, her last name, or the half time show?

Shakira is Lebanese on her Dad's side.  (Her grandparents were from Lebanon.) She did a zagrouda/zagroutta--which is a traditional Arabic women's vocalization done at times of joy (weddings for example.) Although usually women will cover their mouth with one hand (perhaps to hide the tongue action? Guessing it's a modesty thing.).  She sings in Arabic on some of her songs.  She speaks in Arabic at her concerts in the ME, and was one of the Pepsi spokespeople along with Amr Diab in the Middle East a few years ago.  No idea if she still is. She speaks Arabic, Spanish, English, Portuguese, etc. 

As for being Muslim, I've never heard that she herself is Muslim. I believe she was raised Catholic. Mebarak...I'm assuming is like Mubarak...means Blessed. I'm pretty sure it's the same root as Barack, for what it's worth (although my Arabic sucks). Chedid is also Arabic...means strong.  I don't believe either is uniquely associated with Muslims--and Lebanon is half Catholic.  Just like Arabic-speaking Jews and Christians say "Allah" for God.  It's a language that while associated with Islam due to the Qur'an being revealed in Arabic, is not exclusive to Islam.  I believe there are about 2 million Arabic-speaking Christians in the world, possibly more.  Mizrahi Jews? Not sure, and not sure how many still speak Arabic. (Most were expelled from their home countries after the establishment of Israel and then the Suez Canal Crisis in Egypt.) 

As to the OT, I thought they both did a good job--and I was super impressed with JLo's daughter.  Having the courage to perform at the Super Bowl. Wow.  I would expect them to be dressed as they were.  JLo is not known for her modesty.  Of course, the male rappers were all fully clothed.  It says more about society's expectations regarding appearance, then it does them IMHO.  Yeah, some Muslim Moms are freaking out about how they were dressed.  But most Muslims don't expect non-Muslims to adhere to our modesty standards...so I would think they are in the minority. The average Muslim who saw that J.Lo was performing at the Super Bowl would kind of assume her outfit would not meet Islamic modesty standards. 🙂

Loved that they are in their 40s and 50s, and yet still looked great.  

[Scarlett]

I thought there was a lot of vulgarity in the movements.  I loved hearing J Lo’s daughter sing.....but couldn’t really concentrate for thinking how inappropriate it was to have kids be a part of that vulgar show.  

[SKL]

I think maybe I should have set this up as a poll:  How would you rate the show - G, PG, PG13, R?  I would love to see the extent of diversity on that question.

I would probably say it was (not surprisingly) PG13, which is more risque than I prefer (with or without kids), except when the exposure is truly needed to get an important point across.  As my kids are 13, I don't stop them from seeing this kind of thing if they want to, but I talk to them about in light of my values.

As to what the danger is if they see it without parental guidance?  Well, to me, it gives the impression of encouraging/normalizing casual sex or even prostitution.  I personally don't believe in casual sex or prostitution.  Why?  Because I believe casual sex comes with many costs, both hidden and obvious; and prostitution, much more so.  I've seen a world of regret on the part of people who have trivialized sex.  I don't like it for them and I don't want it for my kids.  And if I don't guide them, who will? 

[Scarlett]

1 minute ago, SKL said:

I think maybe I should have set this up as a poll:  How would you rate the show - G, PG, PG13, R?  I would love to see the extent of diversity on that question.

I would probably say it was (not surprisingly) PG13, which is more risque than I prefer (with or without kids), except when the exposure is truly needed to get an important point across.  As my kids are 13, I don't stop them from seeing this kind of thing if they want to, but I talk to them about in light of my values.

As to what the danger is if they see it without parental guidance?  Well, to me, it gives the impression of encouraging/normalizing casual sex or even prostitution.  I personally don't believe in casual sex or prostitution.  Why?  Because I believe casual sex comes with many costs, both hidden and obvious; and prostitution, much more so.  I've seen a world of regret on the part of people who have trivialized sex.  I don't like it for them and I don't want it for my kids.  And if I don't guide them, who will? 

Yes the couple who was watching with us was sorry that their 12 year old daughter was at another friends house watching it. 

[Valley Girl]

4 hours ago, Momto6inIN said:

Which is exactly why it's inappropriate - it glamorizes something that is NOT glamorous and makes us forget the women who feel forced into that kind of life.

I have no idea what a Becky is ... someone want to enlighten me?

From context alone, I'd say it's an insulting way of putting a woman who isn't as "open-minded and enlightened" as others in her place.As with so many labels today, it's intended to demean and shut down contrary opinions.

[Scarlett]

9 minutes ago, SKL said:

I think maybe I should have set this up as a poll:  How would you rate the show - G, PG, PG13, R?  I would love to see the extent of diversity on that question.

 

I would definitely give it an R rating.  As I said I thought it was very vulgar.  I don’t think it is cultural though.  I think some might defend it based on cultural——pride in their culture and proud their cultural is on a national stage.  
 

But I think the content of the show is just reflective of our society as a whole.  Anything goes. 

[TCB]

5 minutes ago, Valley Girl said:

From context alone, I'd say it's an insulting way of putting a woman who isn't as "open-minded and enlightened" as others in her place.As with so many labels today, it's intended to demean and shut down contrary opinions.

Yes there seems to be a fair bit of this going on.

Also, I feel like we are living in an "Emperor's New Clothes" world where we are all supposed to pretend that the blatantly obvious isn't there. Not sure what the term is, but I think the dissonance between reality and what we're all supposed to pretend is going on is huge and I can't believe that it is a healthy way to live.

[Sneezyone]

14 minutes ago, SKL said:

I think maybe I should have set this up as a poll:  How would you rate the show - G, PG, PG13, R?  I would love to see the extent of diversity on that question.

I would probably say it was (not surprisingly) PG13, which is more risque than I prefer (with or without kids), except when the exposure is truly needed to get an important point across.  As my kids are 13, I don't stop them from seeing this kind of thing if they want to, but I talk to them about in light of my values.

As to what the danger is if they see it without parental guidance?  Well, to me, it gives the impression of encouraging/normalizing casual sex or even prostitution.  I personally don't believe in casual sex or prostitution.  Why?  Because I believe casual sex comes with many costs, both hidden and obvious; and prostitution, much more so.  I've seen a world of regret on the part of people who have trivialized sex.  I don't like it for them and I don't want it for my kids.  And if I don't guide them, who will? 

 

Perhaps surprisingly, PG13 would have been my assessment as well.

[livetoread]

It would be a lot more empowering if women entertainers could choose to bring sex into their performances or not and still not have it greatly affect their sales and popularity. Yes, women get to keep more of the money being made off showing their bodies now, but I still think they are expected to use sex to sell. It’s not really empowering if they can’t freely choose otherwise. I think by and large women in entertainment are expected to use sex appeal (especially their actual bodies) to sell their music more than men, and as long as that is true, it’s not empowering.

[Sneezyone]

44 minutes ago, livetoread said:

It would be a lot more empowering if women entertainers could choose to bring sex into their performances or not and still not have it greatly affect their sales and popularity. Yes, women get to keep more of the money being made off showing their bodies now, but I still think they are expected to use sex to sell. It’s not really empowering if they can’t freely choose otherwise. I think by and large women in entertainment are expected to use sex appeal (especially their actual bodies) to sell their music more than men, and as long as that is true, it’s not empowering.

 

So what explains the young Ms. Eilish? Or Alicia Keyes? Or Jill Scott? Or Janelle Monae?

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

That’s not what I said. I questioned why the performance in question would be taken as “Just kidding! Women are meant for sexual jollies” after being taught that they’re strong, smart, etc. Quill STATED that that’s how she felt. I inquired as to why that was. What did I do that was so wrong?

Because, as I said, there are venues for being sexy and overtly sexual and IMO, that isn’t one of them. So, to me, the message is: when it’s really important to excel as a female entertainer, we have to fall to the most basic. Dress very sexy. Wear chaps with your butt exposed. Spread your legs into a camera. Have other choreography, costuming and props that hints at “edgy” sex practices: bondage, orgies, pole dancing. 

Additionally, it also bothers me as a middle-aged woman to hear this: “OMG, she looks amazing! Her body is incredible for 50! She looks better than most women half her age! And Shakira! She’s 43! You could bounce a dime off her core!” It annoys me that we’re still judging over-40 women’s beauty on how far they distance themselves from looking their age. This is why some women in this age category feel they simply must have cosmetic surgery or do a bunch of procedures to their appearance so they won’t look their ages.

[Carrie12345]

1 hour ago, Seasider too said:

 

Yes, Pink! She’s a great example of artist vs sensationalist, IMO. 

I adore P!nk! She’s certainly got some raunch out there, though. Doesn’t take one bit away from her amazingness.

[livetoread]

16 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

 

So what explains the young Ms. Eilish? Or Alicia Keyes? Or Jill Scott? Or Janelle Monae?

There are certainly exceptions, which is why I said “by and large” and “more than men”. 
Editing to add, as for Ms. Eilish, her choice of clothing that hides her body is enough of an exception that it gets attention for that, which just makes my point. When a young woman decides not to choose outfits that reveal a lot of her body, it is discussed and noticed. It’s an anomaly.

Edited February 5, 2020 by livetoread

[Sneezyone]

3 minutes ago, livetoread said:

There are certainly exceptions, which is why I said “by and large” and “more than men”. 

 

These are all relatively young women, new to the industry, charting their own course and managing their own images. There's nothing to stop other women from doing the same.

[livetoread]

11 minutes ago, Sneezyone said:

 

These are all relatively young women, new to the industry, charting their own course and managing their own images. There's nothing to stop other women from doing the same.

I disagree. I think there is plenty to stop them, though obviously not completely. Just because some manage to make it past the barriers doesn’t mean women are free from those sexual expectations. Things are changing for the better, though, and that’s good. 

Edited February 5, 2020 by livetoread

[Sneezyone]

14 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

Billie Eilish?  

Yep,  nothing wrong with those lyrics coming from a 17yr old.  Nothing at all.  

 

The whole point of the song/vibe of the artist is being the non-conforming girl who's NOT living up to expectations or abiding by others' boundaries. It's about pushing envelopes of normalcy and decency in OPPOSITION to expectations for "good girls" and women. A lot of the hot female artists today are selling that same message including Lizzo who chooses to portray a different side of the freedom spectrum...that is to say...I will show my ass if I want to (she is generally criticized for it), fat or not, TYVM.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

Preferring acoustic music and stripped down vocals, or classical musicians and folk songs is great. So be it.  But it sounds a LOT like "GET OFF MY LAWN" you filthy kids! to stick your nose up in the air and say there's no talent or artistry among popular musicians because it's just not to your taste or that maintaining a healthy body and lifestyle any age isn't an accomplishment or remarkable. It is. This conversation could probably occur in any decade.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Sneezyone

[Elfknitter.#]

3 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Both women did a medley of their best known hits.  Costuming went with each hit.  A medley by definition means that the pieces were not supposed to be one unified whole other than spanning the performance history of each artist.  So of course different parts of the show had different images and messages. 

My understanding (from different articles I've read) is that artists are not paid for their half time performances.  They do it for promotion reasons and probably a certain amount of bragging rights.  Which I add mainly to say why artists use medleys in these shows and not necessarily new songs - because they are building on song and name recognition. 

I read the same, only it's more for promotion and increased sales: https://www.billboard.com/articles/business/chart-beat/8550061/jennifer-lopez-shakira-song-catalog-huge-super-bowl-sales-gain

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, Plum said:

She’s also been invited to perform the half time show at the super bowl and passed, saying people who do it get persecuted.  She’s got some wisdom and restraint to boot.  

 

She's not wrong. You can't please everyone and there's no need to subject yourself to that without a good reason.

[Sneezyone]

1 minute ago, happysmileylady said:

So to the list of insults we have added snobby ("nose in the air") and curmudgeonly ("get off my lawn filthy kids).  

When we include "pearl clutchers" and "prudes" and "puritains and Beckys" I am up to 6.   

 

If you can point to even a SINGLE time where I said someone, ANY SPECIFIC INDIVIDUAL, was INSERT NAME HERE you might have a point. Saying that the people called themselves "prudes" (NOTE: THEY DID) or that commentary "sounds like" the same kinds of of pearl-clutching that's gone on since time immemorial is NOT the same. Keep saying this tho and you may be able to convince people that's the case. That seems to be the norm these days.

[LucyStoner]

7 minutes ago, Plum said:

She’s also been invited to perform the half time show at the super bowl and passed, saying people who do it get persecuted.  She’s got some wisdom and restraint to boot.  

Many performers passed on the opportunity this year and last year, some citing Colin Kaepernick and Black Lives Matter and others for less political reasons.  I mean, if people weren’t passing on it, how would *Maroon Five* get such a gig?  Adam Levine is not a talent on par with Prince or Justin Timberlake or Shakira.   I think JLo and Shakira said yes in part because it was in Miami.  

[regentrude]

1 hour ago, Quill said:

Additionally, it also bothers me as a middle-aged woman to hear this: “OMG, she looks amazing! Her body is incredible for 50! She looks better than most women half her age! And Shakira! She’s 43! You could bounce a dime off her core!” It annoys me that we’re still judging over-40 women’s beauty on how far they distance themselves from looking their age. This is why some women in this age category feel they simply must have cosmetic surgery or do a bunch of procedures to their appearance so they won’t look their ages.

On a slight tangent: I hear what you are saying, but I would like to look at this from a slightly different perspective (and would like to divorce this comment from the specifics of the half-time show).

Seeing middle-aged or old women fit and active can also go a long way towards changing the perception that only young people can be physically fit and than anything after 40 is downhill. Seeing that one can take care of one's body and be an athlete as a peri- or menopausal woman is, IMO, important. It counteracts the feeling of "oh well, I'm over the hill, so why bother". Seeing 50 y/o dancers, 60 y/o marathoners, 80 y/o gymnasts reminds us that there are still decades of life to live and that it is possibly to be fit and active. Those celebrities aren't the best role models, because we all know they have resources at their disposal we regular women don't - but seeing strong, athletic "normal" older women is definitely inspiring in a positive way. Because that is what 50, 60, or 80 can look like.

Edited February 5, 2020 by regentrude

[Sneezyone]

7 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

No of course not.  No one ever singled out anyone.  Everyone completely generalized.  

 

Which is of course..............ok. 

🤣

 

 

 

We will just all pretend the meaning wasn't clear.  I am cool with that if you are.  

 

I actually go out of my way not to quote or refer to specific individuals unless I am specifically speaking to someone so...yeah...DO THAT if it's what you need to be OK.

[Sneezyone]

4 minutes ago, OKBud said:

I love listening to pop music, as a rule

BUT IT'S COMPLETELY BESIDE THE POINT what I personally "like."

 

It should be, but it wasn't because it was used to smear various young artists as somehow disimpowered because of the lyrics they wrote/sang.

[Sneezyone]

Uh, no. People did conveniently leave out Janelle Monae and Jill Scott because they didn't fit the narrative.  The artists mentioned as people "accomplishing things" have had ZERO major commercial success. And that's fine as an artist's preference and goal. But I don't think it's cool to denigrate someone (anymore than I think it's cool to smear someone who goes after success in tech or business) as a traitor to their gender or empowerment ideals because YOU (generalized) don't like their hustle and flow. The right and ability to pursue success (clothed OR unclothed) is our right and privilege too.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Sneezyone

[Sneezyone]

Just now, OKBud said:

News from Pornhub:

 

Freaks gonna freak. The same thing happens when Simone Biles performs. Shocking but porn addicts don't need much of an excuse to objectify women. It's not the clothes, the acts, the dancing or the drinks. It's the addict.

[Sneezyone]

Just now, OKBud said:

So do you believe in the existence of structural limitations? 

 

I don't even know what the heck you mean by structural limitations. I can come up with a number of definitions for that term some of which I might agree with somewhat and some of which I would not.

[Sneezyone]

2 minutes ago, OKBud said:

I posted the pornhub statistics because they belie the empowerment narrative, which leaves out what MEN are using it for. The women in those hundreds of thousands of videos are real, live human beings. And there are societal structures in place that have conspired to capture them there at this moment in time. 

As far as I am concerned, any given individual can use their power, such as it is, to support them or to chip away at them. There is no moral middle ground once the problem has been brought to your attention.  

JLo and Shakira have made their choices. But so have all of us. 

And "freaks gonna freak"? It's just the extra freaky guys who use porn? Get real already.

-----------

Separately, it's patently absurd to mention Alica Keys as an example lol she's *literally* fighting against this nonsense and using her voice and visage to chip away at existing power structures. 

So, female empowerment is about leading our lives concerned about what men think? And, yeah, I think porn addicts are freaks.