How to cut off contact with family

[Moonhawk]

Please don't quote, I'll delete details later.

So, not me, but DH. 

It's gotten to the point that he wants to at least take a long break from his family, perhaps permanent but he's not sure yet. One brother is not necessarily included, but I personally think his hand will be forced there by the rest of the family. This is probably going to be a surprise to them, and he has always been the most dutiful out of the brothers (he's POA and executor for both parents for example, which is also something he wants to decline now). I don't know if details are really necessary to get appropriate advice; suffice to say that he was abused as a kid and there has been no mutual respect or apologies as an adult, and his attempts to talk about what's bothering him have been unsuccessful or unsatisfactory. 

So, to those who have been in this position, or think you have a constructive ideas on how to approach this: what do you recommend? Just ghost them? Block on phone? Tell them individually that he is going to go quiet for a while (his parents are divorced)? Don't reach out and just tell them if they ever reach out themselves?

We have a 2 hour playdate set up with his mom in October, he wants to cancel that, so it seems something will need to be said to make it clear (I agree with the cancellation). He does not want to do holidays with them this year either, so I think ghosting will not work since they will get more persistent in contacting him right before Thanksgiving. And, since there is details that need to be address, like the POA, it can't be put off forever. But maybe there is an option/approach I am not considering?

 

[Kassia]

I think that he should communicate with them in some way that he need a break and doesn't know how long it will be. Hopefully, they will respect that.  He doesn't have to answer questions or give reasons why.  If they push him for answers or try to make him feel bad, then he needs to take more drastic actions like blocking them or whatever.  Good luck and I hope it all works out.

[Bambam]

Whatever he does, I would be sure to include the fact they need to update their POA and select another executor. They may not think of that, so it is best to point it out directly. 

[Ann.without.an.e]

Did something big happen to suddenly bring him to this decision or is this just a sudden awareness of the problems that have existed all along?

I would step back and take a break before making a big decision - he can tell them that he just needs some time and space to sort out some personal issues right now.  During that time he should calculate what he really thinks and feels about the situation without their input.  Maybe read the book Boundaries by Cloud?  

Just know, if he does decide to cut them off, it could feel ugly for a while.  We had to do this and DH went to kind of a bad place for a while, but he came back much stronger in the end. 

It's hard and I am sorry ❤️ 

[gardenmom5]

is there narcissism?  My sister tried to tell my covert narcissistic grandmother she needed a break....  "Oh, you're killing me....."  the drama.....sigh.   Didn't go well for my sister.

I simply engaged in VERY CONTROLLED contact (that was what worked for me.)   one 15 minute phone call, once a week.  as long as she was polite. If she said *ANYTHING* impolite (or off subjects I didn't want to discuss with her), I said goodbye and hung up.  didn't respond, just said "bye/gotta go".  (phone calls were generally around five - ten minutes.)  but, I was the scape goat, so she either didn't notice or didn't really care that I reduced contact.  I made no announcement.  I consider an announcement an opening for their drama.   don't try and teach a pig to sing - it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

I do similar with my brother.  He get's one attempt at redirecting, then I say 'bye' and hang up.    

 

[Murphy101]

For now, I’d cancel the upcoming event and then just be quiet for a long time. 

For me, I just stopped calling and if they called me, I kept it to neutral and non-committing conversation. If I couldn’t, then I’d just say I had to get off the phone because I needed to take care of something else - work, kids, hair to wash. Whatever. My refusal to do more than that, eventually led them to not contacting me anymore. Which I’m completely good with. I didn’t want to rehash our relationships or argue about it anymore.  I’d heard it all before and I’m deeply drama adverse. And when it’s all considered, the drama feeding and manipulations to get what they wanted  are the only things they really wanted out of me.  I’m useless to them without that. 

For me, it made no difference to my being The executor for my father or taking care of him at his dying weeks. None of them would have done it anyways and he wouldn’t have let them either.  Oddly or not, treating my father that way was wonderful for our relationship.

If any of them feel differently after a change in the relationship dynamics - they can change it however they want. 

Edited September 27, 2019 by Murphy101

[gardenmom5]

cancel the playdate.  make a phone call, and cancel it. Just say it won't work. "why?" because it won't.  say goodbye and hang up.  don't entertain a discussion of why, or rescheduling etc.

as for holidays - you have plans, and won't be joining them.. "what plans?" our plans.  do not entertain discussion.  They will have been notified.  (my npd grandmother wouldn't have taken that seriously, and it wouldn't have stopped her expecting someone.  I learned to allow her to experience the consequences of her unrealistic expectaions.  I told you I wasn't coming, not my problem you didn't believe me.)

my sister wasn't able to have a hard line about no-contact, so they started going away for Christmas.  it started as a way to get away from certain family members - then it became their tradition  and good memories.  They did it for about 20 years.

do they live nearby?  would they be likely to drive to your house and try to come inside when they get put-off?  - have a plan on how to handle that before it happens.

I agree with letting them know to get someone else to do the POA/executor as your dh is unable to do that at this time.  don't give a reason why he's not able, that's irrelevant - the point is - he's not able to do it.  why not?  because he's not able.  say goodbye, and hang up.  don't entertain the subject.

[TechWife]

1 hour ago, Bambam said:

Whatever he does, I would be sure to include the fact they need to update their POA and select another executor. They may not think of that, so it is best to point it out directly. 

 

He can also just wait and decline to serve in the role if called upon. For the POA, I would hope that there is a #2 on the list. For the executor, you fill out a form with the court resigning the role, then someone else can petition to do it or the state will appoint someone to do it. 

 

[Guest]

53 minutes ago, Patty Joanna said:

Miss Manners had a cycle of responses for "not able" and it has been one of the best things I have ever memorized.

I'm sorry, we won't be able to make it for Thanksgiving.  (Why not?). It just is't possible.  (But why not??). It won't work out.  (BUT WHY???). We aren't able to.  Lather rinse repeat.  (I think hers were better, but this is what I have in my head....and the point is *no explanation*.  

And I'm sorry for this trouble.  I do think you should tell them that you / dh won't be able to do the POA or executor roles.  (I'm doing our wills right now so I am a little attentive to this point.)

We won't be able to serve as POA or executor, so  please find someone else who will represent you well.  (Why can't you?). It just isn't possible.  (BUT WHY?). We can't.  (Tell me WHY!!). We aren't able to.  Lather rinse repeat.  

This is a really good way. 

 

[Tanaqui]

The best course of action depends on the individuals involved. Does he intend for this to be a break or forever?

[rebcoola]

I would text or email so you have a paper trail.  Cancelling  the play date and making it clear that you all will be taking a break from them and you will contact them if/ when you want to.  Than block black hole everything.  They’re will likely be a ramping up of crazy think of it as an exticition burst.  If they show up don’t let them tell them to leave or you will call the police.  Also shut down any flying monkeys..any family friend extended relative or nice brother should not be allowed to talk about it.  If they continue to bring it up after being told not to Cut them off also.  Sorry it has come to this but your life willingness likely be more peaceful soon.

[Farrar]

Some of the above responses could be right... but I agree with Tanaqui that the right response is really dependant on the relationship he's had with them up to this point. Plus, the sort of people they are.

From what you're describing, some of these - especially just cutting off contact and not getting back to them - would likely cause them to call the police or literally come to the house. I mean, you're saying you all have semi-close contact with them and they don't see this coming at all. 

I can see perils in all the different ways you can do this. Just politely denying requests to do things over and over could lead to them being pretty angry and confused and sending intervening folks to you to figure out what's up. Sending a message making it clear that you're declining contact for awhile could do the same thing. I think it's really about deciding what approach is going to end in the least conflict and, honestly, hassle for you guys. You also have to consider whether he really wants to ever have the possibility of contact again. Some of the ways he might sever things could leave it open and others might not.

[Moonhawk]

Thank you for the wordings, those are very helpful, much simpler and direct.

To reply to some questions: @Attolia He's been considering it for the past 8 months at least, longer for some family members. Some conversations in the past couple weeks have been unhappy events and has started having panic attacks at the thought of continuing to have contact with them. 

@gardenmom5 Yes there is narcissism (imo) in one of his brothers and his dad. His level of current contact with his dad is maybe 2-3 phone calls a year about an hour each (Christmas, Father's Day, his dad's birthday). Previously we thought this would be enough space (has been like this 3-4 years), the past week has shown it's not. His brother is more sporadic, maybe 3 conversations a year + holidays. Basically any more limiting is cutting contact. We've thought about just sending Christmas and birthday cards, but don't know if there's really any point to keeping up the pretense at that point.

@TechWife I'm #2 for at least one of them on POA 😕.  We don't want to leave them in a lurch and we don't want to spring the news on them when they need a POA, but we can't fulfill the role anymore so we'll bring that up in the same convo. 

@Tanaqui He doesn't really know; he definitely feels like making a forever move but is trying to take it one step at a time. This isn't really a happy outcome for him because he really did put a lot of effort into trying to mend bridges, be the good son, good brother, etc. But, it's taken a big toll and things don't improve if he's the only one putting in the effort. So, at least a break until after next Easter, that is the minimum length of time for him. He's starting with a new therapist and working through a couple recommended books, he'll probably make a final decision once he's worked through those.

@Farrar exactly re: different approaches. I think any approach is going to make them mad. I mean, we missed Christmas one year because we were sick and saw them the week before for a different family function, the next three years we were accused of skipping Thanksgiving/Christmas/New Years and told that we needed to put more emphasis on family and how hurt they were we didn't even try the whole season to see them, etc. So I don't really see a way that this goes without a lot of angry calls. But I also want to get it out of the way now so hopefully there won't be so much trying to contact around the holidays.

So he's leaning towards a text message to his mom cancelling the playdate and saying he is taking a break from the family. Also one to his dad, much shorter, saying he will be taking a break and will not be contacting him for the foreseeable future. Then letting the news trickle to the brothers and not return any texts/calls. He may return the call of the neutral brother, but neutral brother does not reach out typically. We recently moved 2 hours away and have not given out our address.

 

 

[AK_Mom4]

So I’m in the other camp - I think it’s perfectly OK to ghost them in this situation.  Call and cancel whatever event is coming up because that’s polite and you’ve gotten some good advice on word choice for that.  But then, I would just be really busy and Ghost out of their lives - calls to voice mail, etc.   Drop the POA paperwork in the mail with a line drawn through where your name is and a note that this isn’t something either of you are able to do.   Just stop calling and see if anyone even notices.

I sm not in the Big Confrontation camp.  I think it’s perfectly ok to move on with your lives and leave other people behind..

[LucyStoner]

4 hours ago, Patty Joanna said:

Miss Manners had a cycle of responses for "not able" and it has been one of the best things I have ever memorized.

I'm sorry, we won't be able to make it for Thanksgiving.  (Why not?). It just is't possible.  (But why not??). It won't work out.  (BUT WHY???). We aren't able to.  Lather rinse repeat.  (I think hers were better, but this is what I have in my head....and the point is *no explanation*.  

And I'm sorry for this trouble.  I do think you should tell them that you / dh won't be able to do the POA or executor roles.  (I'm doing our wills right now so I am a little attentive to this point.)

We won't be able to serve as POA or executor, so  please find someone else who will represent you well.  (Why can't you?). It just isn't possible.  (BUT WHY?). We can't.  (Tell me WHY!!). We aren't able to.  Lather rinse repeat.  

 

This has worked for me.  

[Murphy101]

38 minutes ago, AK_Mom4 said:

So I’m in the other camp - I think it’s perfectly OK to ghost them in this situation.  Call and cancel whatever event is coming up because that’s polite and you’ve gotten some good advice on word choice for that.  But then, I would just be really busy and Ghost out of their lives - calls to voice mail, etc.   Drop the POA paperwork in the mail with a line drawn through where your name is and a note that this isn’t something either of you are able to do.   Just stop calling and see if anyone even notices.

I sm not in the Big Confrontation camp.  I think it’s perfectly ok to move on with your lives and leave other people behind..

Yes. I don’t get it. What’s the point of telling them anything and so forth? It sounds like they hardly ever see each other as it is and maybe a few calls a year. Big whoop. Cancel this one thing coming up and get stop making the calls and be too busy to interact.

[mathnerd]

I suggest not to declare the fact that you are going "no contact" outright (it would never work in my situation). "No confrontation" works best with folks who pretend that there is nothing wrong with them and place blame on others. 

I have avoided saying anything and have gone quiet and unresponsive and reply with as little information as possible when they reach out to ask why I no longer visit or keep in touch. I do reply every few months when they leave dramatic and panicked messages because if I ignored them, the next step would be them sending concerned Flying Monkeys to my house to check on me.

Take your time and stay out of contact. Cancel the playdate and give a neutral reason like "something else" came up. Do not make any new plans to meet them. If they notice and start asking, just say that you are busy. If they ask about meeting for the holidays, say that you are going away this year for the holidays as your kids want to travel and that you will be in touch later.

If your husband decides to cut contact completely, then, there is plenty of time later to declare it, get off the POA commitment etc. 

[Carrie12345]

There’s definitely no one right way for every toxic person.  I will throw it out there that I, personally, think blocking calls is safer than allowing voicemails or texts through. My husband has received THE. MOST. VILE. voicemails and texts from a parent who wouldn’t accept being ignored. It was very painful.

[Janeway]

CO is a big deal (cutting out). If he is just looking for an apology for the past, then that is not a good reason. I am guessing that is not what is going on. If there is toxic and bad behavior now, then it needs to end. And I am guessing you all tried to put up boundaries and it did not work. 

Please do not quote as I will hopefully remember to delete this portion later, due to the fact that I found out I have cousins on this board..

My parents and my inlaws were CO'd. My inlaws should have been CO'd many years ago. The CO was related. MIL started calling my dad and flirting with him and my dad would not stop interacting with her. There were a lot of other issues going on and it eventually led to a big blow up and a CO. When my mom died, it came out that she had brain aneurysms that had been bleeding for a long time and likely affected her judgement. To give credit to her, she did try to stop my dad from what he was doing. In hindsite, I realize he had been abusive to her. I always knew it but swept it under the rug.  I am unsure if things could have been different with my mom. I wish it had not been that way. If I could go back in time, I would have done way more to try to work things out. I was guilty of "mom blame." I wish I could go back in time and spend more time building a relationship with her alone rather than blame her for what my dad did. The whole thing is complicated and I am still trying to sort it out myself. The point is, though, I wonder if the relationship with my own mom could have been saved. But not my inlaws. Maybe if my inlaws had been cut out much earlier, maybe things would have been workable with my own parents. For what it is worth, I care for my dad now and I CO'd MIL from his life. I have control. Ironic, isn't it? It is complicated, but I feel MIL's involvement was a factor in my mom's early death. I am not the only one. My own sister brought to my attention things MIL did while I was away and other sister admitted to MIL's involvement. 

 

ANYWAY..I wish you luck. My only advice is to examine everything and decide if a CO is what is really needed vs better boundaries or putting distance. I generally recommend better boundaries and putting distance before going all the way to CO. And a CO should be permanent. If someone has reached CO level, it should be permanent. You are not disciplining children, a time out is not a punishment. a cut out is a measure you take to protect yourself and your family.

[happi duck]

I vote to definitely get off of poa or executor or anything like that now.  Saying no when the actual need arises will be harder.  It will already be a time of complicated emotions. 

If you know the lawyer then maybe you can remove yourselves and the lawyer contact them to name someone else. I wouldn't trust them to remove your names.

(hugs)

[Storygirl]

I don't have any answers and have not experienced this kind of situation myself. But I do have a thought.

Unless he is certain that the cut off will be permanent, I wonder if it is better to bring up the POA at a later date. My thought is that after some time passes by, and you guys are no longer present in their lives, you can stop being the POA as a logical next step.

But if you say right now that you won't be POA any more, it sends a clear message that you guys are not willing to be there during the times of their greatest need. Which is a much bigger blow, I think, and will have a much bigger reaction from them. Whereas, after they are used to you guys being distant, removing the POA may be a less dramatic step.

I realize that their feelings are not at the top of your concern list right now. But the more dramatic their reaction, the harder it will be for you and your husband. So my suggestion is out of concern for you, not them.

[Pen]

I think texting to each parent that he won’t be available for foreseeable future sounds ok.

I think you should look up rules regarding POA etc—possibly a formal letter of resignation should be sent with regard to any such expectations— so he/you don’t get caught up in confusion and more stress down the line.  It can be a hard job, so while it probably will cause much anger/distress now, it will give them time to find someone else and know that they need to do that—rather than it becoming a court battle later perhaps to get someone else appointed or stress trying to tell hospitals, nursing homes, etc that you aren’t it.  Also with no one dealing with things like taxes and other financial matters it can leave a major mess.  

I am currently trying to get my son’s biological late father’s affairs sorted out.  Definitely a big mess and a headache and costly.  

[Tanaqui]

5 hours ago, Carrie12345 said:

There’s definitely no one right way for every toxic person.  I will throw it out there that I, personally, think blocking calls is safer than allowing voicemails or texts through. My husband has received THE. MOST. VILE. voicemails and texts from a parent who wouldn’t accept being ignored. It was very painful.

 

😞

One thing I've suggested to a few people who want to block but who feel they can't because their parents might legitimately need to contact them one day is to redirect all emails to another address that a trusted friend has access to. That friend sifts through the email and only forwards anything of actual import - sometimes after editing out the bad parts. You could presumably use a similar method for voicemail and texts, allowing a friend to check through it once a week or month and only tell you if Mom said something important. (Wait, can you set up separate voicemails for specific callers? Because that would be so ideal.)

[gardenmom5]

3 hours ago, Tanaqui said:

 

😞

One thing I've suggested to a few people who want to block but who feel they can't because their parents might legitimately need to contact them one day is to redirect all emails to another address that a trusted friend has access to. That friend sifts through the email and only forwards anything of actual import - sometimes after editing out the bad parts. You could presumably use a similar method for voicemail and texts, allowing a friend to check through it once a week or month and only tell you if Mom said something important. (Wait, can you set up separate voicemails for specific callers? Because that would be so ideal.)

you can set up specific email boxes for specific email addresses.

I have four email addresses - and I have got my brother using one of my "throw aways".  (I haven't completely ended using it for legitimate stuff, as it is still listed as my primary for Alaska - I have to actually call them to change it.  I can't do it online.)

[TravelingChris]

On 9/26/2019 at 4:44 PM, Patty Joanna said:

Miss Manners had a cycle of responses for "not able" and it has been one of the best things I have ever memorized.

I'm sorry, we won't be able to make it for Thanksgiving.  (Why not?). It just is't possible.  (But why not??). It won't work out.  (BUT WHY???). We aren't able to.  Lather rinse repeat.  (I think hers were better, but this is what I have in my head....and the point is *no explanation*.  

And I'm sorry for this trouble.  I do think you should tell them that you / dh won't be able to do the POA or executor roles.  (I'm doing our wills right now so I am a little attentive to this point.)

We won't be able to serve as POA or executor, so  please find someone else who will represent you well.  (Why can't you?). It just isn't possible.  (BUT WHY?). We can't.  (Tell me WHY!!). We aren't able to.  Lather rinse repeat.  

I love this

[Pen]

Even though poa has not come into effect yet (I presume), I’d tend to be very legal about ending that:

https://info.legalzoom.com/relinquish-power-attorney-22236.html

[Pen]

Just now, Pen said:

Even though poa has not come into effect yet (I presume), I’d tend to be very legal about ending that:

https://info.legalzoom.com/relinquish-power-attorney-22236.html

 

Especially in a family with poor communication and history of abuse.

[Kassia]

On 9/26/2019 at 5:44 PM, Patty Joanna said:

Miss Manners had a cycle of responses for "not able" and it has been one of the best things I have ever memorized.

I'm sorry, we won't be able to make it for Thanksgiving.  (Why not?). It just is't possible.  (But why not??). It won't work out.  (BUT WHY???). We aren't able to.  Lather rinse repeat.  (I think hers were better, but this is what I have in my head....and the point is *no explanation*.  

And I'm sorry for this trouble.  I do think you should tell them that you / dh won't be able to do the POA or executor roles.  (I'm doing our wills right now so I am a little attentive to this point.)

We won't be able to serve as POA or executor, so  please find someone else who will represent you well.  (Why can't you?). It just isn't possible.  (BUT WHY?). We can't.  (Tell me WHY!!). We aren't able to.  Lather rinse repeat.  

 

I need to print this out and read it frequently to remind me to use it with toxic family members.  Thank you.