I found out today that preschoolers get homework!

[ktgrok]

I had no idea. But my friend's son is in VPK (free public pre-K for 4 yr olds) and has homework each night! He has a page of handwriting to do tonight, and was exhausted and melting down because his letter i went beyond the line. 

I can't even...

I did say something to the effect that I would send in a note to the teacher saying my child will complete homework assignment when, and only when, you can provide me documentation proving that homework is beneficial and developmentally appropriate for four year old children. 

Humph. 

Edited August 20, 2019 by Ktgrok

[JustEm]

yeah, no way in hell would I be making my pre-schooler do homework.  I would be sending in a very blunt letter saying that is not age appropriate and as such will not be getting done.

[Rosie_0801]

It's one thing if it is age appropriate. For a 4 year old, writing their name once is quite sufficient. A whole page? Bugger that for a joke. I'd be sending a note too, saying they are more than welcome to send home work and I would be more than happy to send it back if I felt it appropriate.

[ktgrok]

I know. And he was up early because his mom is a crossing guard, so he went with her at 6:30 this morning to do that, then he has physical therapy, then preschool from 11-3, then home and play a bit, then was trying to do homework around 4pm and was just toast. Oh, and today was his first day back after being sick. 😞

[Ailaena]

They also take standardized tests (at least here).  Ds had a classmate whose parents pulled him from our school (forest school) because the standardized testing from the public preschool said he tested below 50%ile in reading and fine motor skills.

Probably had nothing to do with frantically driving from one school to another or living with a newborn or having just moved to the state or just starting preschool or having just been born a few years ago and everything to do with the fact he wasn’t in full-day traditional preschool 🙄

[Frances]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/to-really-learn-our-children-need-the-power-of-play-11565262002

 

[amiesmom]

Our school district has a written policy that states every child from preschool through grade 12 will have homework assigned daily. One of the many reasons we ended up homeschooling. 

[LMD]

Poor kid. That makes me angry and it's just lazy. There are so many appropriate ways to do either fine motor skills work or letter formation work. My 9 year old would probably melt down over a whole page of handwriting! Did they misunderstand the assignment? Was it one word/line a day and the sheet was for a whole week?

[SKL]

My kids were assigned written homework in 3yo preschool.  I was like, um whatever ... I will let them do it if they want to.  Interestingly, they did do it without any fuss, and it was something to keep them busy while I cooked dinner.  If they would have refused, the teacher would have gotten it back unfinished.

Actually I liked it better than the stuff the next teacher requested - send in a bag items that are in 4s, something yellow, something that begins with D, and something that is triangular in shape.  Then next week it's 5s, orange, E, rectangle and so on.  That was mom busywork.

Then in KG (age 4.5) it was back to written homework 4 days per week.  I sent my kids with a box of school supplies so they could do the work in aftercare.  It was nice - they could do it without assistance, unlike primary school when the assignments got so weird that even I wasn't always sure what they wanted.

[Frances]

34 minutes ago, amiesmom said:

Our school district has a written policy that states every child from preschool through grade 12 will have homework assigned daily. One of the many reasons we ended up homeschooling. 

It never ceases to amaze when schools do the exact opposite of what research shows is best practices.

[Frances]

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

I had no idea. But my friend's son is in VPK (free public pre-K for 4 yr olds) and has homework each night! He has a page of handwriting to do tonight, and was exhausted and melting down because his letter i went beyond the line. 

I can't even...

I did say something to the effect that I would send in a note to the teacher saying my child will complete homework assignment when, and only when, you can provide me documentation proving that homework is beneficial and developmentally appropriate for four year old children. 

Humph. 

My MIL worked as a teacher’s aide in a middle school for many years. According to her, this is exactly the type of practice that leads to many boys (and some girls) having major issues in school. Assigning developmentally inappropriate work at younger and younger ages, curtailing physical activity, requiring long periods of focused seat work, etc. only leads to more problems later. Too many kids, even some highly gifted ones, get the incorrect message that they’re no good at school. When actually, it’s the system that is no good.

[Shoeless]

This is madness.  It reminds me of the people in facebook homeschool groups wanting curriculum suggestions for their toddlers. 

[kiwik]

Not here.  Most kids go to school able to write something resembling their name and knowing the letters in their name and maybe being able to count to 10.  We do start school at 5 exactly though so our preschool/Kindy is 3 and 4.  Mostly preschool is for kids to make mess and use equipment they can't use at home, learn to take turns and play with others and give the parents a break or allow them to work.

[Rosie_0801]

1 hour ago, Plum said:

Meanwhile my school district has updated it's homework policy so that it's not required, must be an extension of what was being done in class, not introduced at home, about 10 minutes per grade, and no work is to be done over holidays and weekends because weekend time is family time. 

 

My daughter's stepmother is already on her case about whether I am going to change my rule and allow dd to do her homework at my place, on my weekends, when she starts year 7 next year. It'll be interesting to see what choices dd makes.

[kiwik]

7 minutes ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

My daughter's stepmother is already on her case about whether I am going to change my rule and allow dd to do her homework at my place, on my weekends, when she starts year 7 next year. It'll be interesting to see what choices dd makes.

Sounds fun.  I would have preferred weekends as at least we have more time.  When the introduced homework like "do baking with a parent" I sent a note saying in our house things like that are done in the weekend and I was not going to try a squeeze another thing into our day to tick a box.

[Rosie_0801]

4 minutes ago, kiwik said:

Sounds fun.  I would have preferred weekends as at least we have more time.  When the introduced homework like "do baking with a parent" I sent a note saying in our house things like that are done in the weekend and I was not going to try a squeeze another thing into our day to tick a box.

 

They expected you to bake with kids after a full day at school? Do they bake with their kids after a full day at school? Crazy talk!

 

Dd wants to be a carpenter, and her custodials are sending her to a school that doesn't even offer woodwork classes. Nobody is paying me to support their goals over hers. Nobody is paying her to put their goals above hers either, so it'll be interesting to see what choices she makes...

[Tanaqui]

Quote

 Ds had a classmate whose parents pulled him from our school (forest school) because the standardized testing from the public preschool said he tested below 50%ile in reading and fine motor skills.

 

Yeah, half of all kids are below the 50th percentile, that's how percentiles freaking work.

Quote

Sounds fun.  I would have preferred weekends as at least we have more time.  When the introduced homework like "do baking with a parent" I sent a note saying in our house things like that are done in the weekend and I was not going to try a squeeze another thing into our day to tick a box.

 

The younger kiddo's first grade teacher used to expect worksheets, scads of worksheets, that didn't just have to be done but DECORATED. Yeah, that wasn't happening. Or she'd assign "optional" homework and then get snippy with me when I said we took the optional and left the homework.

Which is still nothing on the older kid's elementary. Every single day, starting in kindy, they were supposed to write a journal entry about their day at school. It's school! One day is very much like the next! And of course, the teacher would leave a little note if the kid wrote that, or wrote about anything that wasn't school, or wasn't interesting enough in the journal entries. "We want the kids to share their days with you!" Well, if my kid wants to TELL ME about school then I'm sure it'll happen more easily without that journal.

That stupid assignment was the source of so much angst and frustration to so many kids. And I asked around teacher friends and they all agreed there was no benefit to assigning the same writing assignment every day for six solid years of school.

[Rosie_0801]

54 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

Which is still nothing on the older kid's elementary. Every single day, starting in kindy, they were supposed to write a journal entry about their day at school. It's school! One day is very much like the next! And of course, the teacher would leave a little note if the kid wrote that, or wrote about anything that wasn't school, or wasn't interesting enough in the journal entries. "We want the kids to share their days with you!" Well, if my kid wants to TELL ME about school then I'm sure it'll happen more easily without that journal.

That stupid assignment was the source of so much angst and frustration to so many kids. And I asked around teacher friends and they all agreed there was no benefit to assigning the same writing assignment every day for six solid years of school.

 

I always hated those 'Dear Teacher, let me tell you about myself' assignments. If I thought I was your business, I'd tell you. As it is, I don't think I'm your business. It's not like the teachers reciprocated. I guess they didn't think their private life was any of my business.

[Tanaqui]

Because of that stupid journal, the kid was so incredibly resistant to writing that we did NO WRITING when we homeschooled for grades 6-8. It took a long time for her to start writing just for herself.

[sweet2ndchance]

My youngest two son's both attended free pre-k through the public schools. My second to youngest son had an amazing pre-k teacher who I am still in touch with to this day. Youngest ds was born when second to youngest ds was in pre-k and ds brought the new baby in for "show and tell" when he was a few months old lol.

Youngest ds has Childhood Apraxia of Speech so he qualified for an IEP and placement in the pre-k program as a handicapped student at age 3 instead of 4. Second to youngest ds didn't have any issues that required an IEP so he had to get a normal lottery slot for 4 year olds. Anyways, ods's amazing preschool teacher was still there and so excited to get to teach the little brother that ods had brought in for show and tell 3 years earlier but at the last minute she was offered a better job teaching 2nd grade and she took it, so youngest ds got a different pre-k teacher. This woman was an absolute nightmare.

Among other things, she decided that the seat work that 3 - 4 year olds should do, from the first day of school until the last day, was practice writing their name every. single. day. on a photocopied half sheet of paper with their name in comic sans font and the rest of the page was blank. No lines. No tracers. No guidance from the aide or the teacher. No nothing. Her theory was "they will learn to write the letters in the way that is most comfortable to them". *facepalm* I didn't find this out until half way through the year and I was informed that even though he was one of the younger students in the class, he needed to work on writing his name. He was three, almost 4, and barely had the verbal skills of an 18 month old. His handwriting was the least of my worries back then. He is six now and I still have to correct his letter formation habits religiously or he will do things like make the two humps on the letter m and then go add a little tail at the top of the first hump. Something he was praised for by the pre-k teacher for his "attention to detail". *double facepalm".

The fact that she couldn't see that her idea of seatwork was totally inappropriate for the mix of students she had should have been my first clue that we needed to just bring him straight home. When I found out that this was the norm even in kindergarten here, to not teach handwriting and just let the child develop their own strategies was definitely one of the deciding factors in the end. Now I see why my other ds's amazing teacher left. She used HWT in her pre-k class and didn't stress at all over whether or not they could write their names by the end of their pre-k year.

If the nightmare pre-k teacher had tried to send home homework for ds, I probably would have completely lost it on her sooner.

[kiwik]

3 hours ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

They expected you to bake with kids after a full day at school? Do they bake with their kids after a full day at school? Crazy talk!

 

Dd wants to be a carpenter, and her custodials are sending her to a school that doesn't even offer woodwork classes. Nobody is paying me to support their goals over hers. Nobody is paying her to put their goals above hers either, so it'll be interesting to see what choices she makes...

It is more the full day of work.  Some days they went to care and on at least two others one of them had an activity.  I also wanted them to play outside.  Baking would not have been a beneficial activity carried out while cooking tea or squeezed between school and gym.  Mostly I am contrary though and figure anything the teacher didn't think important enough to do at school isn't more important enough to displace something we want to do.  The school gets 5 hours a day to educate.  I get five hours to feed, wash, take to activities and play with them - plus read them history, cover science and do maths extension 

Can you investigate what she needs to do academically to be a carpenter so she can plan? Here the main problem would be overcoming a very sexist industry where maybe 1/1000 trades people are female if that.

Edited August 20, 2019 by kiwik

[HomeAgain]

Inappropriate work was a big reason why we pulled our oldest out of school.  The inappropriate work load and type of work contributed to behavior problems, which led to other problems.

This below, though, I could have killed one teacher.  She asked for this assignment from the parents, asking us to tell her all about our kids at the beginning of the school year for her files.  I sent in a nice, detailed letter that covered my kid's weaknesses and strengths, things I was worried about in the school day, and what I would appreciate a heads up on.

At the end of the school year she gave all the letters to the kids for them to read and "treasure".  Well, that's all fine and dandy but if I knew it was going directly to my kid I would not have written it like I would to another adult who was taking care of my kid for 8 hours each day.  Gah.  There were things in there he shouldn't have dwelt on.
 

1 hour ago, Rosie_0801 said:

 

I always hated those 'Dear Teacher, let me tell you about myself' assignments. If I thought I was your business, I'd tell you. As it is, I don't think I'm your business. It's not like the teachers reciprocated. I guess they didn't think their private life was any of my business.

[Rosie_0801]

14 minutes ago, kiwik said:

Can you investigate what she needs to do academically to be a carpenter so she can plan? Here the main problem would be overcoming a very sexist industry where maybe 1/1000 trades people are female if that.

 

Academically, being as literate and numerate as she is now is as good as many and better than some. Her and I will keep working on a portfolio until she's old enough to quit school and get a labouring job.

[Lanny]

I don't remember my DD having Homework when she was in Pre School, but she had so much fun there and she learned so many things there. 🙂That was a Private school here in Colombia. No idea how that would work in a Public school in FL. 

[ktgrok]

7 hours ago, LMD said:

Poor kid. That makes me angry and it's just lazy. There are so many appropriate ways to do either fine motor skills work or letter formation work. My 9 year old would probably melt down over a whole page of handwriting! Did they misunderstand the assignment? Was it one word/line a day and the sheet was for a whole week?

Nope. It was to do 4 lines of lower case and 4 lines of uppercase. (which is stupid anyway as they are made totally differently, so if the focus is on beginning handwriting that's a dumb way to do it...start with letters that have similar formations!)

23 minutes ago, Lanny said:

I don't remember my DD having Homework when she was in Pre School, but she had so much fun there and she learned so many things there. 🙂That was a Private school here in Colombia. No idea how that would work in a Public school in FL. 

Here the way it works is that public schools can offer a pre-K program OR private schools can offer it and the state will pay the school for it - a set amount per child. So this child attends a private school but using public money. To keep getting that public money the school has to teach a set curriculum, students have to be there a set number of hours (5 half days or 3 full days) and there is a maximum number of absences "allowed", etc. 

She's also worried about that, in fact. Her son has an immune deficiency and gets sick often, and she's worried he will get kicked out for excessive absences. She is going to try to get a letter from his doctor explaining the situation. 

I don't even know why he's going, other than pressure from her family to put him in. Seems a kid with an immune deficiency doesn't need to be in pre-K exposed to tons of germs and exhausted and stressed out ,but what do I know. He also has other issues not yet diagnosed that make school stressful, including sensory issues, so has to wear his headphones sometimes, etc. 

Edited August 20, 2019 by Ktgrok

[Scarlett]

17 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Nope. It was to do 4 lines of lower case and 4 lines of uppercase. (which is stupid anyway as they are made totally differently, so if the focus is on beginning handwriting that's a dumb way to do it...start with letters that have similar formations!)

Here the way it works is that public schools can offer a pre-K program OR private schools can offer it and the state will pay the school for it - a set amount per child. So this child attends a private school but using public money. To keep getting that public money the school has to teach a set curriculum, students have to be there a set number of hours (5 half days or 3 full days) and there is a maximum number of absences "allowed", etc. 

She's also worried about that, in fact. Her son has an immune deficiency and gets sick often, and she's worried he will get kicked out for excessive absences. She is going to try to get a letter from his doctor explaining the situation. 

I don't even know why he's going, other than pressure from her family to put him in. Seems a kid with an immune deficiency doesn't need to be in pre-K exposed to tons of germs and exhausted and stressed out ,but what do I know. He also has other issues not yet diagnosed that make school stressful, including sensory issues, so has to wear his headphones sometimes, etc. 

When I saw this thread I was wondering why you put your kid in preK.  Did not seem like something you would do.  

I am in general not a fan of preK.  I know a young woman who is a single mom, (dad not involved physically or financially) who just put her 4 year old in preK.  She, the mom, has worked since the child was born and she had almost exclusively trusted friends care  for the child.  So now that the child is 4 I know free preK s a financial relief.

But in general when a parent is home....no not a fan.  And this homework nonsense is one of the reasons. And this poor little guy with health issues.  Makes me sad.  Can you influence your friend?

 

[vonfirmath]

5 hours ago, kiwik said:

Sounds fun.  I would have preferred weekends as at least we have more time.  When the introduced homework like "do baking with a parent" I sent a note saying in our house things like that are done in the weekend and I was not going to try a squeeze another thing into our day to tick a box.

 

Agreed. I much prefer work on weekends than on a weekday night when we might not even have time to do it!

 

But I also found, when my son had a math teacher who was determined not to assign homework -- that he started slipping behind in math (not grade-wise. He'd ahead of the curve there. But behind where he needed to be and COULD be, given the right opportunities. We were able to catch up and fix it. But the lack of homework definitely made things more difficult than they could have been). He needed that reinforcement of the practice of math to make sure he understood the math. To the point where, the next year, he was ASKING for homework.

Edited August 20, 2019 by vonfirmath

[cintinative]

9 hours ago, Ktgrok said:

I know. And he was up early because his mom is a crossing guard, so he went with her at 6:30 this morning to do that, then he has physical therapy, then preschool from 11-3, then home and play a bit, then was trying to do homework around 4pm and was just toast. Oh, and today was his first day back after being sick. 😞

 

Remind me, but is VPK normally 11-3 or is that an extension or something? My niece and nephew were in VPK but they are now 13 and 16 so things may have changed since then.  

Back then even, VPK seemed more "academic" than the church preschool my kids attended two days a week for two hours. 

Edited August 20, 2019 by cintinative

[LMD]

54 minutes ago, Ktgrok said:

Nope. It was to do 4 lines of lower case and 4 lines of uppercase. (which is stupid anyway as they are made totally differently, so if the focus is on beginning handwriting that's a dumb way to do it...start with letters that have similar formations!)

Here the way it works is that public schools can offer a pre-K program OR private schools can offer it and the state will pay the school for it - a set amount per child. So this child attends a private school but using public money. To keep getting that public money the school has to teach a set curriculum, students have to be there a set number of hours (5 half days or 3 full days) and there is a maximum number of absences "allowed", etc. 

She's also worried about that, in fact. Her son has an immune deficiency and gets sick often, and she's worried he will get kicked out for excessive absences. She is going to try to get a letter from his doctor explaining the situation. 

I don't even know why he's going, other than pressure from her family to put him in. Seems a kid with an immune deficiency doesn't need to be in pre-K exposed to tons of germs and exhausted and stressed out ,but what do I know. He also has other issues not yet diagnosed that make school stressful, including sensory issues, so has to wear his headphones sometimes, etc. 

Wow. Yep, I'll stick with 'poor kid' then. 

[scrapbookbuzz]

There seems to be a huge governmental push in the U.S. for kids to be in school at younger and younger ages.
There.is.no.valid.reason.for.this. But if you dig deep into the reasoning behind compulsory eductation in the first place,
it makes sense. Not that it makes sense to have kids so young in school (let alone having homework!) but it makes sense
in why there's a push for it - whether we agree with it or not.

[Scarlett]

10 minutes ago, scrapbookbuzz said:

There seems to be a huge governmental push in the U.S. for kids to be in school at younger and younger ages.
There.is.no.valid.reason.for.this. But if you dig deep into the reasoning behind compulsory eductation in the first place,
it makes sense. Not that it makes sense to have kids so young in school (let alone having homework!) but it makes sense
in why there's a push for it - whether we agree with it or not.

Which is what? My knee jerk answer is money.  It is always money it seems.  

[JustEm]

The county we just moved to offer free public prek and we considered it for my 4 year old mainly because we thought it would be something she'd really enjoy because she is constantly looking to play with kids her own age.  But then we learned this was the first year that they were switching to full day prek 5 days a week.  I'm fine with that as an option because I understand some people NEED to use it as free childcare.  But to not have other options is disappointing. 

[Bambam]

I thought that possibly the homework would be to have mom or dad read a book aloud to you. I know some parents don't read aloud to their children, and it is incredibly helpful and good for kids to have books read aloud to them, so I thought for sure that would be the homework!

That level of writing is disappointing for that age. 

Edited August 20, 2019 by Bambam

[Guest]

Is this an Abeka school? I know in FL, private preschools can offer VPK, and I came close to running screaming from a preschool teacher interview at the amount of writing expected of kids in Abeka PK. Having seen that, red-shirting became much more explicable, since a 5 yr old has a much better chance of having those fine motor skills than a 4 yr old! 

I teach preschool “piano”-and one reason why I put piano in quotes is that, honestly, it really comes down to my playing with the child and doing music and fine motor activities until their little fingers catch up and are ready to go. And I make sure parents know that it won’t look much like a piano lesson until their child gets to that point. About half of my kids are actually those with DX’d fine motor delays who work on piano lessons AND handwriting without tears with me. 

[Ailaena]

46 minutes ago, hjffkj said:

The county we just moved to offer free public prek and we considered it for my 4 year old mainly because we thought it would be something she'd really enjoy because she is constantly looking to play with kids her own age.  But then we learned this was the first year that they were switching to full day prek 5 days a week.  I'm fine with that as an option because I understand some people NEED to use it as free childcare.  But to not have other options is disappointing. 

 

We switched to full day K here and although schools may or may not continue to  offer a 1/2 day program, it clearly states in the (mandate?) that you can arrange with the school to pick up at 1/2 day with no penalty.  And virtually NOBODY realizes this because the schools that only offer full day never mention it.  

Now, this doesn’t mean that a full-day program has to offer the core subjects at a time that would be convenient to a kid leaving at noon, but it’s still a choice.   Maybe it’s that way with you?

[ktgrok]

2 hours ago, cintinative said:

 

Remind me, but is VPK normally 11-3 or is that an extension or something? My niece and nephew were in VPK but they are now 13 and 16 so things may have changed since then.  

Back then even, VPK seemed more "academic" than the church preschool my kids attended two days a week for two hours. 

It has to be a certain number of hours, but the individual schools can schedule those however they wish. So this particular school does it 11-2:30 (I had the time wrong) but others might have 9-12:30, 5 days a week or 9-3 three days a week. 

And yes, it is very academic, with certain benchmarks the students are supposed to meet. 

[ktgrok]

I was thinking it sounded like ABEKA as well, I'm going to ask her. 

[katilac]

1 hour ago, Scarlett said:

Which is what? My knee jerk answer is money.  It is always money it seems.  

A common theme in the early days of compulsory education in America (going back to the colonies) was teaching obedience to government and enforcing adherence to religion (Christianity in general, often specific strains of Christianity). Training the workforce came into it later, as did the aspect of eliminating child labor. Training the workforce is a complicated motivation; it's something a country does need, of course, but many wanted students trained not just in academics and specific skills, but trained to 'accept their place' in the world and be compliant workers. 

At the local level, I can see money being a motivator, but preK is a federal and state priority as well, and at those levels it costs money via grants and so forth. In addition to a possible mix of the ones listed above, I think the powers that be have realized that the modern family is often stretched to the limit and the current situation cannot continue indefinitely. Universal preK is seen as an answer to that by many. I personally think it's a quick fix and a move in the wrong direction, while still recognizing that it's a massive relief to many families. 

[katilac]

3 hours ago, vonfirmath said:

Agreed. I much prefer work on weekends than on a weekday night when we might not even have time to do it!

It's a bit stickier when one parent has them during the week and the other on the weekend. If you have them all the time, you might prefer homework on the weekends, but if the weekend is the only time you have them . . . 

For anyone else who couldn't figure it out, VPK is voluntary pre k. 

Regarding not doing homework: there is often a penalty attached to not doing homework. I'd love to think that preK is usually different, but I really don't know. I worked at a private prek-4th school last year, and first graders definitely had to do homework at recess if it wasn't complete or correct (they did get ten minutes for corrections in the morning). Same for that day's classwork. PreK and K, I know they had to finish incomplete work at recess and I would guess that included homework (they definitely got homework). 

That was a private school, but my understanding is that many VPKs are private and they have some kind of voucher system. 

[JustEm]

16 minutes ago, katilac said:

It's a bit stickier when one parent has them during the week and the other on the weekend. If you have them all the time, you might prefer homework on the weekends, but if the weekend is the only time you have them . . . 

For anyone else who couldn't figure it out, VPK is voluntary pre k. 

Regarding not doing homework: there is often a penalty attached to not doing homework. I'd love to think that preK is usually different, but I really don't know. I worked at a private prek-4th school last year, and first graders definitely had to do homework at recess if it wasn't complete or correct (they did get ten minutes for corrections in the morning). Same for that day's classwork. PreK and K, I know they had to finish incomplete work at recess and I would guess that included homework (they definitely got homework). 

That was a private school, but my understanding is that many VPKs are private and they have some kind of voucher system. 

 

That is disgusting.  

[Kassia]

18 minutes ago, katilac said:

 

Regarding not doing homework: there is often a penalty attached to not doing homework. I'd love to think that preK is usually different, but I really don't know. I worked at a private prek-4th school last year, and first graders definitely had to do homework at recess if it wasn't complete or correct (they did get ten minutes for corrections in the morning). Same for that day's classwork. PreK and K, I know they had to finish incomplete work at recess and I would guess that included homework (they definitely got homework). 

 

 

Denying recess = child abuse, IMO.  I hate that this is a common consequence for not having homework done.  It shouldn't be allowed.  

[Kassia]

2 hours ago, Indigo Blue said:

What's the rush? Does it help anything, really??  Does it move them along down the conveyor belt of education any faster? Better? Ok. I'm feeling cynical this morning, but I don't think so. Because when they get to elementary school (well, at least the elementary schools around here), there is a piddly, pathetic amount of grammar instruction. And no cursive. And if you get a slack teacher (which is highly likely) you won't get much of anything at all. Then, in high school (well, at least the high schools around here, anyway), the lack of solid writing instruction is jaw-dropping. Yes, there is writing. But I mean really good writing. Writing instruction done correctly and well, leaving a student with a real skill set and prepared for college. Well, wait a minute. A lot of the college writing classes are a big fat joke. Not all of them but a large part of them are. It just doesn't compare to what I've seen in curriculum designed for use at home. I don't mean to sound arrogant, really, I don't. This is just what I see, and it makes me sad. A four year old doesn't need to be stressing over proper letter formation. If they enjoy it, then fine. It won't hurt them, and that bent toward the enjoyment of doing such things will pay off. Most just aren't developmentally ready at age four. They'll catch up just fine when they are ready, barring some learning disability that needs to be addressed. At four, if a kid is not ready, there is no sound reason to subject them to that. Yes, I'm cynical today.

 

 

The rush is due to common core and the high-stakes testing attached to it.  The standards and tests are developmentally inappropriate for our youngest kids and these things are pushed on them before they are ready.  It's very sad and disturbing.  And, of course, everything is taught to those tests so if it's not tested, it isn't taught.  That's why things like cursive and grammar aren't taught well or at all.  But keyboarding is taught early because the tests are on computers.  

[ktgrok]

24 minutes ago, Kassia said:

 

The rush is due to common core and the high-stakes testing attached to it.  

And THAT is where the money comes in. The tests are developed, sold by, and graded by for profit private companies that have pretty much taken over public education. Scholastic in particular, especially in this area. Our kids education has been sold to Scholastic. 

[katilac]

1 hour ago, Ktgrok said:

And THAT is where the money comes in. The tests are developed, sold by, and graded by for profit private companies that have pretty much taken over public education. Scholastic in particular, especially in this area. Our kids education has been sold to Scholastic. 

I actually had no idea that Scholastic was in the testing business. I took a quick look, and a school can buy a user's manual, answer key, and 20 student booklets for about $70. To find out if kids are ready for kindergarten. Even if you say the purpose is to know where the kids are, can't a decent teacher do that naturally in a relatively short amount of time? And wouldn't that method give better information? It's like we are determined to do the most ineffective things. Early testing, no recess, excessive homework. Our results suck, but look how tough and no-nonsense we are! 

 

[Frances]

4 hours ago, Scarlett said:

Which is what? My knee jerk answer is money.  It is always money it seems.  

I think there are two primary motivators. First, the economy and workers for the economy to maintain growth. And in some families, both parents want and/or need to work. So public school at younger ages provides free daycare for working parents. Second, I think it’s also driven by the attempt to narrow the achievement gap among kids from different socioeconomic groups by starting earlier. Unfortunately, I don’t think these early academic pre-Ks are the answer to that problem and have the potential to make things worse.

[Frances]

1 hour ago, heartlikealion said:

Ds sometimes had to sit in the classroom during recess to finish or correct something when he was at private school. He had mixed feelings. Some days he hated that and other days he said he didn't care because he didn't enjoy recess. Or sometimes I think he had to stay behind because other kids got the class in trouble. I hated the idea of using a lack of recess as punishment. They need to get out. At his public school they did not have recess for anyone above K? I never saw a playground. It may have been outside an exit I never used. They had PE a couple times a week, usually in the gym. A lot of it was "free play" which was sometimes boys hitting each other with pool noodles (eye roll). 

I seriously can’t comprehend an elementary school not having recess. How is that even allowed? Why do parents allow it? We had three recesses everyday plus PE several times a week. Most kids also played on the playground before and after school.

[ktgrok]

35 minutes ago, katilac said:

I actually had no idea that Scholastic was in the testing business. I took a quick look, and a school can buy a user's manual, answer key, and 20 student booklets for about $70. To find out if kids are ready for kindergarten. Even if you say the purpose is to know where the kids are, can't a decent teacher do that naturally in a relatively short amount of time? And wouldn't that method give better information? It's like we are determined to do the most ineffective things. Early testing, no recess, excessive homework. Our results suck, but look how tough and no-nonsense we are! 

 

Yeah, but how does a big corporation make money off of that? Why pay teachers when giant companies can suck up that money, right? Sigh. 

I may delete this later, but I have heard from a reliable source within the school district (a principal I trust) that the Scholastic rep actually has, for all intents and purposes,  her own office inside the school district headquarters and has a district email. I've also heard on good authority that sales representatives in skirts and heels get what they want with our particular superintendent. So capitalism run amok AND patriarchy! yay!

4 minutes ago, Frances said:

I think there are two primary motivators. First, the economy and workers for the economy to maintain growth. And in some families, both parents want and/or need to work. So public school at younger ages provides free daycare for working parents. Second, I think it’s also driven by the attempt to narrow the achievement gap among kids from different socioeconomic groups by starting earlier. Unfortunately, I don’t think these early academic pre-Ks are the answer to that problem and have the potential to make things worse.

Yeah. the actual things proven to help - teaching CONTENT not SKILLS at that age...as in, exposure to books, experiences, etc - are not marketable the way curriculum is. And harder to convince a school system to update that stuff every year like curriculum and workbooks can be. 

Also, remember, the people deciding all this are the school board, who often has ZERO experience teaching, do not have degrees in education, etc, and above THEM is the state legislature, and almost NONE of them have any teaching or education background. 

We'd have something very different if the educational decisions were made by actual educators rather than politicians at various levels. 

[ktgrok]

4 minutes ago, Frances said:

I seriously can’t comprehend an elementary school not having recess. How is that even allowed? Why do parents allow it? We had three recesses everyday plus PE several times a week. Most kids also played on the playground before and after school.

I'm 43 and we didn't have recess in elementary.We did have PE every day, but that wasn't free play - it was structured. 

[ktgrok]

Oh, and I've been told by teachers that they don't like free recess because that's when bullies act, etc. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, heartlikealion said:

Just heard the preK here doesn’t have recess 😮

So far no homework but the person I talked to said they think it will start. 

This is something that really bothers me. In every state I have read codes for, licensed child daycare REQUIRES a very large amount of outdoor/large motor time except in inclement weather (and usually that means "actively storming"-heat or cold you go outside anyway". Naps are also required, even for kids who are old enough to have given up napping, and who spend the time lying on a cot attempting to read a book in a slightly darkened room. 

Take those same kids, same age, put them in a school building, and call it pre-K, and suddenly both “recess” and “naps” are optional. It is SO developmentally inappropriate it isn’t even funny.