Have you "let yourself go" after getting married?

[Heather in Neverland]

I am very close with my brother, we are best friends. He is having some "issues" in his marriage that he has been talking through with me. They've only been married about 5 years. Of course, as you all know, when marriages go wrong it is rarely one thing or one person's fault and I am very direct and honest with him about what he needs to do to be a better husband (hey, he asked!).

 

But here's where things get sticky. One of his complaints is that his wife has "let herself go" since getting married. She has gained a lot of weight. She used to be the dolled-up, snazzy-dresser and now she is the sweatpants and ponytail kind. She does not keep the house clean enough for him, same with laundry, dinner is sporadic, etc. etc. They have one child, a 4yo, and my SIL only works 3 days a week. My brother works about 60 hours a week.

 

He says he loves her (and she is a great person) but feels that she is being disrespectful to him by letting herself (and the home) go like this. You know, like she kept her weight down and always looked nice until he married her and now she doesn't seem to care any more (or at least not enough to do anythng about it). He calls it the "marital bait and switch".

 

So what says the hive? Is it disrespectful to your spouse to let yourself go after you get married?

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

Maybe she has some undiagnosed depression. I would suggest counseling.

[Blessedfamily]

We had a situation like this at church. Some of the ladies had a "ladies night" and talked to others about the issue(among other things). No one got offended. Everyone re-evaluated whether they were keeping themselves together and a few husbands were very happy.

 

Just something we did to try to help marriages in the church. It may not apply to someone else's situation, but sometimes it's easier to broach the subj. during "girl" talk.

 

Of course if depression is a factor, girl talk may not cut it.

Edited November 23, 2008 by Blessedfamily

[OnTheBrink]

I think it can be a common problem. Most of the marriage books I've read addressed this.

[Blessedfamily]

I think it can be a common problem. Most of the marriage books I've read addressed this.

 

Exactly. Which is why we could talk about the issue in general, without anyone feeling like her husband had been "putting her down" to others.

 

Of course, it may be ideal for your brother to speak to her himself.

[Nestof3]

I too think it is a common problem, and I have to say that I think it is understandable to be disappointed when our spouse changes so much in the "wrong" direction. If my husband were very neat prior to marriage, but five years later became a slob, I would be disappointed. There are times when weight gain and physical changes cannot be helped, but most often, they are in a person's power. My husband is one who doesn't find overweight attractive, but neither do I. Neither one of us was overweight when we married -- both thin. I did let myself gain quite a bit, but it still bothered me more than it bothered him, and he only said that I could stand to lose some when I pressed the issue. But, he did marry a neat-freak, healthy, thin, petite woman who showered daily and never sat around in sweats all day, and I think it would be a little deceptive if I just swung in the other direction.

 

I think one can take these things too far, of course. And, I'm not talking about unconditional love, leaving a spouse for those reasons or anything. He may also be guilty of changing a lot since they married -- perhaps not as kind, as gentlemanly, or whatever. I think they should really talk to someone.

 

I think much of the wooing and trying to please the other ends a lot after marriage.

[Moxie]

I think much of the wooing and trying to please the other ends a lot after marriage.

 

 

I agree and I think it is a darn shame!

[Rich with Kids]

I did this in my first marriage. I gained a lot of weight, quit wearing jewelry, bought over-sized clothes and stopped wearing make-up. My ex was very abusive (not suggesting your db is...) and I totally lost my identity. I just gave up and became a person I didn't recognize. I went years without looking in a full length mirror. My first guess from the info you gave is that she's depressed. I'm sure she's aware she's let herself go and that probably makes it worse. I'd suggest counseling. It could also be hormonal. She might need to get that checked as well. Having a loving spouse makes all the difference (it has for me) so your brother may want to attend counseling with her to see where he can improve, as well.

 

Why didn't they tell us marriage was so hard? My dh now is the complete opposite of my ex, but we still work very hard to protect our relationship. I'm sorry they are going through this. :grouphug:

[Tree House Academy]

The first thing that struck me is that she used to be a single woman and now she is a mom. She had his child...most likely the source of the weight gain...and not all women shed it back off like a supermodel.

 

This is a hot spot for me because it was something my ex husband used to say. I weighed 105 pounds when we met. I am 5'6", so that was a little too small for me. I gained weight while pregnant and when I had my oldest son, I weighed about 139 and never really got much smaller than that. However, I was NOT fat at 139 pounds!!! Not in the least. I looked good and he made me feel like an overweight piece of crap. Then he got on the tangent about how I dressed. He wanted me to go to work (which I worked 40 hours a week and kept an immaculate house on top of being basically a single mom to our son AND taking on a freelance project in my spare time!) all day and come home and just continue to be all dolled up and not get comfortable in my own house while I cooked dinner and cleaned and took care of our son. Some men just can't be pleased.

 

If he loves her, truly loves her, he will respect that her body has changed and their lives have changed and he will honor the vows he made to her. He can talk with her and tell her that he will HELP clean the house, ask her to dress up and go out on dates with him, etc. Maybe that will help, but this is definitely a touchy place for me after what my ex did. Counseling may help. Sounds like your brother needs the help too if he is being this critical of someone he loves.

Edited November 23, 2008 by Tree House Academy

[Jill- OK]

One of his complaints is that his wife has "let herself go" since getting married. She has gained a lot of weight. She used to be the dolled-up, snazzy-dresser and now she is the sweatpants and ponytail kind...They have one child, a 4yo, and my SIL only works 3 days a week. My brother works about 60 hours a week.

 

 

So...she 'only' works three days a week. And has a four-year old. Your brother works 60 hrs a week, and so I'm guessing that the expectation is that she's responsible for the housework ("...She does not keep the house clean enough for him, same with laundry, dinner is sporadic, etc. etc.")?

 

Was this the deal they agreed to, before they married? I didn't pursue work aside from taking care of my kids and the house for several years; it took me quite a while to get my 'sea legs', so to speak, and learn how to balance several things at once (housework, homeschooling, outside pursuits). I wouldn't judge any woman who's struggling in those areas, especially trying to be both a SAHM and a working mom, with a little guy.

 

He says he loves her (and she is a great person) but feels that she is being disrespectful to him by letting herself (and the home) go like this. You know, like she kept her weight down and always looked nice until he married her and now she doesn't seem to care any more (or at least not enough to do anythng about it). He calls it the "marital bait and switch".

 

I have to admit that I'm not sure I can give a really unbiased answer, because the use of the term 'marital bait and switch', used only as a means of description for a woman's looks, is quite disgusting to me. (As opposed to broadening the definition to include a man suddenly changing what he believes about division of parenting/other labor after marriage). Yes, I think that hygiene and grooming are one of the things that we focus on a little more when we're single and on the prowl, but...if you're struggling to balance working, what, twenty-four hours a week at an outside job, taking care of household chores, and a four-year-old...you've got less time on your hands. Would he rather her neglect her job, or the child, to put on a little makeup, lol?

 

I don't know. I can see the point of someone who feels a little cheated, if they've married someone who took great care of themselves initially, and then gained a hundred pounds simply by giving up caring...but for a man who promised to stand by a woman, love, cherish and protect her for better or for worse, and then grouse about some baby weight and chores falling through the cracks is something different to me.

 

I think it could be possible that your brother is absolutely right, about her having the time and inclination, and just not the desire...but I guess I'd wonder why she doesn't have the desire anymore, to look good for him.

 

Can he think of any reason why she wouldn't want to be pleasing to him? It could be that's she's frazzled by parenthood, and all the juggling, and simply going the traditional woman route of putting herself last...or it might be that something has taken away her desire to look good for him. Someone else mentioned depression, that's a possibility, too.

 

I guess I said all that to say, yeah, sometimes I think a woman can be disrespectful to her husband by letting herself go, under some circumstances.

 

But I also think that many a man out there would get a great surprise if he loved his wife no matter what. Treated her as if she were beautiful no matter what. And loved her, no matter what.

 

Just one woman's opinion.

[snickelfritz]

It's hard to explain the effect that the hormones has on us. It makes for HARD work to get back into shape after the baby is born. And USUALLY it's the woman who is doing most of the getting up and is the most exhausted. I was fine with that. BUT, it's just not something that the dh's have to deal with. So, it's unfair to say the woman is just being lazy and deceitful.

 

I get that her baby is 4. Mine is 3. But, having babies is what shot my thyroid to pieces. It's been since babies that my progesterone levels have gone whacko. Anxiety and depression were never issues for me, before all of this stuff with my body.

 

My dh does not say a word, except he wants me to be more healthy. And he's willing to put up to help me. He's encouraging me to join a running club....which means HE will be taking over some kid/household responsibility.

 

But, I would be upset if he blamed my weight gain and "letting myself go" for any marriage problems that we had.

[LauraGB]

He says he loves her (and she is a great person) but feels that she is being disrespectful to him by letting herself (and the home) go like this. You know, like she kept her weight down and always looked nice until he married her and now she doesn't seem to care any more (or at least not enough to do anythng about it). He calls it the "marital bait and switch".

 

So what says the hive? Is it disrespectful to your spouse to let yourself go after you get married?

 

 

If he loves her, he may need to dig a little deeper than what things seem to be on the surface. It could really be, especially since the child is rather young, that she's just depressed. Maybe she's not happy with how she looks, either, and compounded w/already being bummed...not a good thing. So, if she's depressed, is it possible he's just frustrated and doesn't know how to dig beyond the surface presently to get to the root? I'm thinking they need to talk to a counselor or something before they toss in the towel.

 

As for letting myself go - no, I don't think so (beyond baby producing damage, anyway ;) ). But, its only sort of because I care what dh thinks; its mostly because *I* have to look at me every day, too, and I've never been one to feel comfortable in sweats and no makeup.

[Rich with Kids]

But I also think that many a man out there would get a great surprise if he loved his wife no matter what. Treated her as if she were beautiful no matter what. And loved her, no matter what.

 

 

 

That's what I was trying to say. :D

[Jami]

:001_wub: You're great, Jill. :001_smile:

[Tree House Academy]

I forgot to answer the original question. I have lots of anxiety and sometimes even Hypochondria and depression. When this happens, I can lose up to 30 pounds without warning. I am, right now, thinner than I have been in a long time because of one such episode. My husband does not comment on my weight...even when I am heavier. He told me just today that he thinks I am sexy no matter what size I am wearing at that time. :) And he has never criticized the way I dress - he also likes to be comfy at home. He is a good man, and he loves me for who I am. This house is not as immaculate as I used to keep my house when I was younger and working full time and had just one child, but this house is a home...one we live in and love in and laugh in and that is worth more to him (and to me) than any pristine perfect wife.

[Karen in CO]

And there are going to be plenty of more compassionate answers, and I'm really not as cold-hearted as this sounds.

 

Really.

 

When there is the disparity like that - him working 60+ hours and her not maintaing the house and such, it builds resententment. Couples need to define and understand the roles and expectations. Often there are problems with depression that need to be addressed.

 

However, I was a thin, semi-neat, hard-working professional that dreamed of being a pirate . He was a thin, really-neat, work-a-holic, geek when were got married. Years later, I wear jeans more than skirts because of dress code at work, but neither my hubby nor I can complain of bait-and-switch.

 

When he would rather buy a new car than fix the old one, I can't complain because that is consistent with who he always has been. When my idea of retirement planning includes a savings plan for a boat, he knows he had better plan for sailing lessons or find his own retirement plans. :) We knew the score when we said "I do".

[JennifersLost]

You know what jumps right out at me: he works 60 hours a week.

 

And you said they're a young couple, right? They've only been married five years.

 

A few years ago I passed around an ebook called something like: keys to the castle. One of the biggest things I got from it is that men go through a phase in their twenties to early 30s or so where they put work first. They put their shoulder to the wheel and just grind it out. They may come home at night, but they are barely "there". They are building their career and that's where it's at.

 

It's a good thing overall, because by their 30s they can look up and take a break. They've often got a solid career by this time and are doing well by there family. Everything's hunky-dory, right?

 

Except by the time he sticks his head up and looks around, his wife is ready for a divorce. Because while he's been "working" 60 hours a week, she's been working 168 hours a week, with no breaks, EVER.

 

It doesn't matter whose work is harder or who makes more money; new mothers are "on" all the time. They are responsible ALL THE TIME.

 

Here are my suggestions to your brother in law. They are very simple:

 

1. When he gets home from work he needs to kiss his wife, say "I want to hear about your day - just give me 15 minutes first." Then he needs to go take the time he needs to change, use the bathroom, whatever it takes to shift from work to home; then go back to where his wife is and LISTEN WITHOUT MAKING ANY SUGGESTIONS for 20 minutes. Kiss her again at the end of it, hug her and wipe away her tears if she's crying, ask if there's anything he can do. If there isn't - let it go. She's not complaining about him; she's just getting rid of her own stress.

 

2. Make sure that once a week she gets out of the house ALONE for 3 - 4 hours to do something for her - a class, exercise, lunch with friends, etc. Errands for the family DO NOT COUNT. If he wants extra points, he'll take the child with him and leave her alone AT HOME for four hours. All young mothers crave time alone in their houses. The trick here is that he has to make sure each week that this happens; he can't make her ask for it each week.

 

3. Make sure that at least once a week he and his wife go OUT BY THEMSELVES for a date. If they don't have money for it, create the date at home. Put the kid to bed, make some special food and watch a movie or something that's out of the ordinary. Still shoot to go out once a month or once every two months, even. Date time is hugely important.

 

That's it. I bet if he made it his job to take on these three tasks, his marriage would rise to hights he'd never dreamed about and his wife would probably take an interest in her looks more on her own.

[5kidsforME]

I am very close with my brother, we are best friends. He is having some "issues" in his marriage that he has been talking through with me. They've only been married about 5 years. Of course, as you all know, when marriages go wrong it is rarely one thing or one person's fault and I am very direct and honest with him about what he needs to do to be a better husband (hey, he asked!).

 

But here's where things get sticky. One of his complaints is that his wife has "let herself go" since getting married. She has gained a lot of weight. She used to be the dolled-up, snazzy-dresser and now she is the sweatpants and ponytail kind. She does not keep the house clean enough for him, same with laundry, dinner is sporadic, etc. etc. They have one child, a 4yo, and my SIL only works 3 days a week. My brother works about 60 hours a week.

 

He says he loves her (and she is a great person) but feels that she is being disrespectful to him by letting herself (and the home) go like this. You know, like she kept her weight down and always looked nice until he married her and now she doesn't seem to care any more (or at least not enough to do anythng about it). He calls it the "marital bait and switch".

 

So what says the hive? Is it disrespectful to your spouse to let yourself go after you get married?

 

Heather for the sake of your relationship with your brother and his wife I would suggest you tell them to go to counseling.

 

I understand you and your brother are close but what he is sharing with you is very personal and if she ever found out it could really damage your relationship with both of them. JMO

[Heather in Neverland]

A few more details...

 

my brother DOES help in the house...he has to or a lot of it just doesn't get done. He comes home to a messy house, no dinner, his wife is watching TV and dressed in sweatpants. I agree she may be depressed. He HAS talked to her, numerous times, about her weight. He has paid for gym memberships but she never goes. He buys healthy food for the house, she orders out. That's why he is frustrated.

 

I agree that we should love our spouses no matter what. But what about when that spouse takes advantage of it? I have another friend who has gained A LOT of weight since getting married and knows her husband doesn't like it but when she talks to me about it she says "I'm his wife. He has to love me no matter what." Is that fair?????

 

This particular marital bait and switch instance strikes a nerve in women because it is about looks but it could be applied to anything. What if your dh was a hardworking guy when you married him then up and quits his job and refuses to work?

 

Or like my BFF, what if your husband says he is a Christian, then after you are married changes his mind and says he is an atheist?

 

Or like my mom whose second husband said he was a daytrader and had all kinds of money in the stock market. After they were married she finds out he is really an unemployed bum?

 

Where is the line between accepting changes in your spouse and feeling like you've been scammed?

[Heather in Neverland]

You know what jumps right out at me: he works 60 hours a week.

 

And you said they're a young couple, right? They've only been married five years.

 

A few years ago I passed around an ebook called something like: keys to the castle. One of the biggest things I got from it is that men go through a phase in their twenties to early 30s or so where they put work first. They put their shoulder to the wheel and just grind it out. They may come home at night, but they are barely "there". They are building their career and that's where it's at.

 

It's a good thing overall, because by their 30s they can look up and take a break. They've often got a solid career by this time and are doing well by there family. Everything's hunky-dory, right?

 

Except by the time he sticks his head up and looks around, his wife is ready for a divorce. Because while he's been "working" 60 hours a week, she's been working 168 hours a week, with no breaks, EVER.

 

It doesn't matter whose work is harder or who makes more money; new mothers are "on" all the time. They are responsible ALL THE TIME.

 

Here are my suggestions to your brother in law. They are very simple:

 

1. When he gets home from work he needs to kiss his wife, say "I want to hear about your day - just give me 15 minutes first." Then he needs to go take the time he needs to change, use the bathroom, whatever it takes to shift from work to home; then go back to where his wife is and LISTEN WITHOUT MAKING ANY SUGGESTIONS for 20 minutes. Kiss her again at the end of it, hug her and wipe away her tears if she's crying, ask if there's anything he can do. If there isn't - let it go. She's not complaining about him; she's just getting rid of her own stress.

 

2. Make sure that once a week she gets out of the house ALONE for 3 - 4 hours to do something for her - a class, exercise, lunch with friends, etc. Errands for the family DO NOT COUNT. If he wants extra points, he'll take the child with him and leave her alone AT HOME for four hours. All young mothers crave time alone in their houses. The trick here is that he has to make sure each week that this happens; he can't make her ask for it each week.

 

3. Make sure that at least once a week he and his wife go OUT BY THEMSELVES for a date. If they don't have money for it, create the date at home. Put the kid to bed, make some special food and watch a movie or something that's out of the ordinary. Still shoot to go out once a month or once every two months, even. Date time is hugely important.

 

That's it. I bet if he made it his job to take on these three tasks, his marriage would rise to hights he'd never dreamed about and his wife would probably take an interest in her looks more on her own.

 

 

These are such great suggestions! Thank you!

[dirty ethel rackham]

It's hard to explain the effect that the hormones has on us. It makes for HARD work to get back into shape after the baby is born. And USUALLY it's the woman who is doing most of the getting up and is the most exhausted. I was fine with that. BUT, it's just not something that the dh's have to deal with. So, it's unfair to say the woman is just being lazy and deceitful.

 

I get that her baby is 4. Mine is 3. But, having babies is what shot my thyroid to pieces. It's been since babies that my progesterone levels have gone whacko. Anxiety and depression were never issues for me, before all of this stuff with my body.

 

My dh does not say a word, except he wants me to be more healthy. And he's willing to put up to help me. He's encouraging me to join a running club....which means HE will be taking over some kid/household responsibility.

 

But, I would be upset if he blamed my weight gain and "letting myself go" for any marriage problems that we had.

 

I feel the same way. Amen! He seems to have a lot of expectations, but what is he doing to help build her up and help her have the energy to be what he is looking for? How much wooing is he doing?

[Heather in Neverland]

Heather for the sake of your relationship with your brother and his wife I would suggest you tell them to go to counseling.

 

I understand you and your brother are close but what he is sharing with you is very personal and if she ever found out it could really damage your relationship with both of them. JMO

 

Well, the problem is he doesn't really believe in counseling of any kind. He says they are just professional "opinion-havers". The reason he talks to me about it is because talks with her are going nowhere and he is at the end of his rope. Obviously, he is my brother so I am partial, but I have not experienced this particular problem in my marriage so it is hard for me to relate. I thought if some ladies on the board have been through this they may have a different view to share (and I was right...you ladies give great insight!).

[5kidsforME]

Well, the problem is he doesn't really believe in counseling of any kind. He says they are just professional "opinion-havers". The reason he talks to me about it is because talks with her are going nowhere and he is at the end of his rope. Obviously, he is my brother so I am partial, but I have not experienced this particular problem in my marriage so it is hard for me to relate. I thought if some ladies on the board have been through this they may have a different view to share (and I was right...you ladies give great insight!).

 

I understand that. But do you see the irony in his thinking, counselors are just opinion-havers, but then so are you? Even though you are his dear sister. ;)

 

My dh has told me stuff his family has said and let me tell you, Hooo boy, it has taken me a looooong time to get over. Men don't think. If your brother slips it may be a loooong time until your sil can get over it.

 

Your brother needs to talk to a non-partial person.

 

Is he a christian?

[elegantlion]

You know what jumps right out at me: he works 60 hours a week.

 

And you said they're a young couple, right? They've only been married five years.

 

A few years ago I passed around an ebook called something like: keys to the castle. One of the biggest things I got from it is that men go through a phase in their twenties to early 30s or so where they put work first. They put their shoulder to the wheel and just grind it out. They may come home at night, but they are barely "there". They are building their career and that's where it's at.

 

It's a good thing overall, because by their 30s they can look up and take a break. They've often got a solid career by this time and are doing well by there family. Everything's hunky-dory, right?

 

Except by the time he sticks his head up and looks around, his wife is ready for a divorce. Because while he's been "working" 60 hours a week, she's been working 168 hours a week, with no breaks, EVER.

 

It doesn't matter whose work is harder or who makes more money; new mothers are "on" all the time. They are responsible ALL THE TIME.

 

Here are my suggestions to your brother in law. They are very simple:

 

1. When he gets home from work he needs to kiss his wife, say "I want to hear about your day - just give me 15 minutes first." Then he needs to go take the time he needs to change, use the bathroom, whatever it takes to shift from work to home; then go back to where his wife is and LISTEN WITHOUT MAKING ANY SUGGESTIONS for 20 minutes. Kiss her again at the end of it, hug her and wipe away her tears if she's crying, ask if there's anything he can do. If there isn't - let it go. She's not complaining about him; she's just getting rid of her own stress.

 

2. Make sure that once a week she gets out of the house ALONE for 3 - 4 hours to do something for her - a class, exercise, lunch with friends, etc. Errands for the family DO NOT COUNT. If he wants extra points, he'll take the child with him and leave her alone AT HOME for four hours. All young mothers crave time alone in their houses. The trick here is that he has to make sure each week that this happens; he can't make her ask for it each week.

 

3. Make sure that at least once a week he and his wife go OUT BY THEMSELVES for a date. If they don't have money for it, create the date at home. Put the kid to bed, make some special food and watch a movie or something that's out of the ordinary. Still shoot to go out once a month or once every two months, even. Date time is hugely important.

 

That's it. I bet if he made it his job to take on these three tasks, his marriage would rise to hights he'd never dreamed about and his wife would probably take an interest in her looks more on her own.

 

:iagree:Thanks Jennifer, I'm 41, been married for 16 years, but my dh works 60 hours a week and I needed these reminders now.

[TraceyS/FL]

1. When he gets home from work he needs to kiss his wife, say "I want to hear about your day - just give me 15 minutes first." Then he needs to go take the time he needs to change, use the bathroom, whatever it takes to shift from work to home; then go back to where his wife is and LISTEN WITHOUT MAKING ANY SUGGESTIONS for 20 minutes. Kiss her again at the end of it, hug her and wipe away her tears if she's crying, ask if there's anything he can do. If there isn't - let it go. She's not complaining about him; she's just getting rid of her own stress.

 

2. Make sure that once a week she gets out of the house ALONE for 3 - 4 hours to do something for her - a class, exercise, lunch with friends, etc. Errands for the family DO NOT COUNT. If he wants extra points, he'll take the child with him and leave her alone AT HOME for four hours. All young mothers crave time alone in their houses. The trick here is that he has to make sure each week that this happens; he can't make her ask for it each week.

 

3. Make sure that at least once a week he and his wife go OUT BY THEMSELVES for a date. If they don't have money for it, create the date at home. Put the kid to bed, make some special food and watch a movie or something that's out of the ordinary. Still shoot to go out once a month or once every two months, even. Date time is hugely important.

 

That's it. I bet if he made it his job to take on these three tasks, his marriage would rise to hights he'd never dreamed about and his wife would probably take an interest in her looks more on her own.

Ohhhh, i want one of these!!!!

 

Alone time.... i crave that..... and someone that shows any interest in what i do - and does say, "What do you mean?" when i say, "I never leave the house". Because i don't.... like you said, household errands don't count.

[Jill- OK]

He HAS talked to her, numerous times, about her weight. He has paid for gym memberships but she never goes. He buys healthy food for the house, she orders out. That's why he is frustrated.

 

(Said gently) Talking to her numerous times 'about her weight' isn't the same as talking about their relationship, KWIM?

 

Where is the line between accepting changes in your spouse and feeling like you've been scammed?

 

The things you're talking about...lying about income, religious beliefs, etc...is that really on par with a woman putting on some weight after having a baby and not getting it off? Did she truly 'scam' him? Did she plan this out, lol? Did they agree that things would be a certain way ("You're going to continue working three days a week, and be responsible for X, Y, and Z"), and then she reneged?

 

This particular marital bait and switch instance strikes a nerve in women because it is about looks but it could be applied to anything. What if your dh was a hardworking guy when you married him then up and quits his job and refuses to work?

 

Well...I can't agree with you here. If she truly gained weight on purpose after marriage, then, maybe. But if it's the sometimes-inevitable-for-certain-women post-baby gravity drop and metabolism change, it's not at all the same thing. A more accurate comparison, in my mind, would be your husband losing his job, getting fired, rather than quitting, and then perhaps getting so depressed that he found it hard to get out and look.

 

A woman's looks are something completely incomparable to other situations, I believe. Hinting to a woman that she's no longer attractive, is akin for many to saying, "You've lost your value".

 

I could be wrong, but it sounds as if you're looking for reasons to side with your brother. Believe me, I understand that. (I have a brother, too. :-) But I'm going to throw my voice in with those that say, "Urge them to get counseling, ASAP", and in the absence of that...follow JenniferLost's advice.

 

(I'm also not saying for sure that any of these things apply to your brother; the original question is open enough to apply to a number of situations, and I'll reiterate...it's totally possible for one party to completely take advantage of the other, and let themselves go...but it's just as possible that some men are focused on the wrong things, and don't see the connections between valuing your wife for who she is, inside, and seeing the effect of that on her outside. It wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that many women sabotage their own appearances to punish their husbands, even if it's done subconsciously.)

[TraceyS/FL]

If she's like me, he's not following the 1-3 that Jennifer posted. He's got a chip on his shoulder about it and the way he goes about it - and that has given her the "i don't care" what he does attitude. I've been dealing with a long time.

 

I guess i can see more of her in me - and my DH doesn't go about addressing any of this in a manner that is helpful/loving/supportive/pleasant to me. He might think he is - but it's not.

 

Everyone i know says to read the Love Language book - maybe they should do that he will find that what she needs, isn't what he is giving you know?

[elegantlion]

A few more details...

 

my brother DOES help in the house...he has to or a lot of it just doesn't get done. He comes home to a messy house, no dinner, his wife is watching TV and dressed in sweatpants. I agree she may be depressed. He HAS talked to her, numerous times, about her weight. He has paid for gym memberships but she never goes. He buys healthy food for the house, she orders out. That's why he is frustrated.

 

 

 

It sounds like she has some built up resentment against him. Did she ask for the gym membership? If not I'd be steamed if my dh just bought me one.

 

What were her expectations for marriage? Did they plan having a child? What is her mother like? Does he encourage her in anyway? Just questions that pop into my head.

 

Perhaps she is disillusioned with what she thought her marriage was supposed to be. Perhaps she feels like she has to rush at work to get to home to care for her child to clean the house..... etc, etc.

 

He is a perfectionist about the house? My dh and I had a few rough years in our household expectations. He's a neat freak and I'm not, my mom never even really taught me to clean, she did all the housework. I'm sure my dh feels like he had to train me. :confused:

 

Do you have a relationship with her? Could you talk to her and she how she feels about him?

 

In regards to your other question about "bait and switch" in a marriage I have mixed feelings. If someone outright lies that is one thing. However, Life sometime gets in the way of our plans. People do change, people are fluid and there is an ebb and flow within the marriage. I've felt closer to my dh some years than others. We have changed, we changed how we think about some things, we have changed how we look (dh is losing his hair, when we got married he had only a small bald spot in the back I love hair on a man, is that fair? No, it's genetics) we have changed where we live, how we dress, what we like to do on the weekends. Nothing is really the same as it was 16 years ago.

The only thing constant is that we stood together and agreed to be married to each other, not to that ideal or who were right then. We wanted to grow old together, just like our vows said it was for better or worse, richer or poorer and we've seen it all. Marriage is a commitment, one that takes lots of work and acceptance.

[Jill- OK]

:001_wub: You're great, Jill. :001_smile:

 

You are too, Jami!

 

:001_wub:

 

(Can you feel the "wub", lol?)

[LisaKinVA]

You mentioned (twice) that he keeps talking to her about her weight. STOP!!!! This will not help. This only feeds the cycle. Most likely, she already feels badly about it. If he is talking to her about it, telling her to make changes, getting her gym memberships, I can guarantee you that she is resenting it in a HUGE way.

 

I grew up with such a man as a father. As a young teen, he was telling me that if I gained any more weight they'd have to put "double doors" on the house just so I could get in (mind you, I was about 5'4" and 110lbs at the time). I have an athletic build -- I have never been a bean pole (unlike my mother), I have always been very muscular -- and, again, unlike my mother I had curves.

 

Can you tell where this is headed? Eating disorder. Abuse of laxatives, exercise, constant fear of gaining weight... it was awful.

 

Now, I doubt his wife is headed towards that -- but she is headed toward the complete -- he doesn't love me, why should I bother trying mentality my MOTHER got after 4 children, when the baby weight didn't come right off. Now, my mother is 5'8", long legs, etc. God help her that she hit 140 pounds (she weighed 118 when they married -- a total stick). He kept comparing her size/weight at 21, with how she should look at 40! And then, when menapause hit... WHAM! The complaints grew and grew, and my mother couldn't handle it all.

 

Me? Have I let myself go? Yes and no. I don't walk around in sweat pants, but I don't "do" my hair every day either. I've never been much of a make-up person, but I'd like to take better care of myself too.

 

When my dh married me I weighed 140lbs, which sounds like a lot for my 5'5" frame -- but I was wearing a size 6 skirt (my shoulders are too broad for anything smaller than a size 8-10 dress/blouse). I was far from fat either.

 

Enter birth control... totally threw my hormones out of whack and without trying, despite working out and watching what I ate, I put on 20 pounds in 9 mos. It. was. awful. I had never been on BC before I was married, so I had no idea of the effects.

 

After that first year, I stopped, and have never used a hormone-based BC method since.

 

But, the damage was done. Getting my hormones back into balance has been awful. The only time things seem to work properly is when I'm pregnant and for about 6-9 weeks thereafter. I haven't seen a size 8 since the summer after we got married. I've been close to a true size 10 dress and blue jean, but haven't quite been able to get there...

 

I'm very thankful my dh doesn't comment about my weight -- but I'm ususally the one taking charge of the food/diet/exercise issues around our home. I'm still a far cry from the 27yo dh married, but he loves me anyway.

 

It's that unconditional love that makes me want to do better... because I love him.

 

But, if he were to ever start complaining about my looks, my weight, the way I keep house -- my gut reaction would be to "scr*w it!" I'd be angry, and resentful, and would make his life as miserable as he was making me. It would be a cold day in he!! before I went out of my way to make sure he was happy.

 

Now, we're back to cleaning the family room! (As a family)

[Happy]

Well, the problem is he doesn't really believe in counseling of any kind. He says they are just professional "opinion-havers". The reason he talks to me about it is because talks with her are going nowhere and he is at the end of his rope. Obviously, he is my brother so I am partial, but I have not experienced this particular problem in my marriage so it is hard for me to relate. I thought if some ladies on the board have been through this they may have a different view to share (and I was right...you ladies give great insight!).

 

Ummmmm.....perhaps he doesn't like counselors because their 'opinions' differ from his? Perhaps he feels safe with you or just knows that you won't contradict him.

 

I imagine if you talked to your sis-in-law, she would have a story to tell about him as well. I wonder if she is depressed, yes, but I also wonder if she is disillusioned, too. She sounds lonely. Frankly, he doesn't sound like much fun.

 

I think you've gotten some great advice. Personally, I believe Jennifer is on the right track. If your brother is a Christian, direct him to Eph. 4---the part where the husband is to love his wife like Christ loved the church. Ask him how he is dying for her each day? ;)

 

I would also ask him to make a list...ten things he loves about his wife today.

 

Ask him to remake the list every time he comes to you with complaints.

 

He is focusing on the negatives. It is NOT up to him to 'make' her change. It is up to him to find out if there is a problem he can correct.

[Jill- OK]

Ladies and gentlemen, she's knocked it out of the park!!!!

 

:001_smile:

 

You know what jumps right out at me: he works 60 hours a week.

 

And you said they're a young couple, right? They've only been married five years.

 

A few years ago I passed around an ebook called something like: keys to the castle. One of the biggest things I got from it is that men go through a phase in their twenties to early 30s or so where they put work first. They put their shoulder to the wheel and just grind it out. They may come home at night, but they are barely "there". They are building their career and that's where it's at.

 

It's a good thing overall, because by their 30s they can look up and take a break. They've often got a solid career by this time and are doing well by there family. Everything's hunky-dory, right?

 

Except by the time he sticks his head up and looks around, his wife is ready for a divorce. Because while he's been "working" 60 hours a week, she's been working 168 hours a week, with no breaks, EVER.

 

It doesn't matter whose work is harder or who makes more money; new mothers are "on" all the time. They are responsible ALL THE TIME.

 

Here are my suggestions to your brother in law. They are very simple:

 

1. When he gets home from work he needs to kiss his wife, say "I want to hear about your day - just give me 15 minutes first." Then he needs to go take the time he needs to change, use the bathroom, whatever it takes to shift from work to home; then go back to where his wife is and LISTEN WITHOUT MAKING ANY SUGGESTIONS for 20 minutes. Kiss her again at the end of it, hug her and wipe away her tears if she's crying, ask if there's anything he can do. If there isn't - let it go. She's not complaining about him; she's just getting rid of her own stress.

 

2. Make sure that once a week she gets out of the house ALONE for 3 - 4 hours to do something for her - a class, exercise, lunch with friends, etc. Errands for the family DO NOT COUNT. If he wants extra points, he'll take the child with him and leave her alone AT HOME for four hours. All young mothers crave time alone in their houses. The trick here is that he has to make sure each week that this happens; he can't make her ask for it each week.

 

3. Make sure that at least once a week he and his wife go OUT BY THEMSELVES for a date. If they don't have money for it, create the date at home. Put the kid to bed, make some special food and watch a movie or something that's out of the ordinary. Still shoot to go out once a month or once every two months, even. Date time is hugely important.

 

That's it. I bet if he made it his job to take on these three tasks, his marriage would rise to hights he'd never dreamed about and his wife would probably take an interest in her looks more on her own.

[LisaKinVA]

Well, the problem is he doesn't really believe in counseling of any kind. He says they are just professional "opinion-havers". The reason he talks to me about it is because talks with her are going nowhere and he is at the end of his rope. Obviously, he is my brother so I am partial, but I have not experienced this particular problem in my marriage so it is hard for me to relate. I thought if some ladies on the board have been through this they may have a different view to share (and I was right...you ladies give great insight!).

 

My parents didn't believe in counseling either... they never learned how to communicate with each other, and are now separated -- very possibly for the rest of their lives.

 

Counseling is more than about "giving opinions" -- it is about helping two people overcome the communication habits they have through practical day-to-day activities. These are HABITS, and many times, the logs in our own eyes are too big to see them/hear them/notice them. The impartial 3rd party helps to identify issues people can't see for themselves, and can be well worth the effort.

[Heather in Neverland]

oooooohhhhh...that idea that this might be some passive-agressive reaction on her part to the way he is acting....that is VERY interesting. She does not really ever speak her mind on things.

 

Believe me, my brother has his faults like anybody else and contrary to what you might think, I do NOT let him off the hook. I am his sister but I am first in line to tell him he is acting like a jerk. They obviously have some communication issues. He complains, she cries. That about sums it up.

 

I guess my reason for the OP is to get an idea of what is normal, acceptable change in marriage (people do gain weight, people do go bald) and what is our responsibility in a marriage? My brother is very big on responsibility...he is a very responsible person. He sees her letting herself go as a sign that she doesn't care enough about him any more to want to look good for him. She "knows" how hard he works and what long hours and being able to come home to a clean house and warm dinner makes him feel loved.

 

I've thought about having a heart-to-heart with her since counseling is unlikely but he has not asked me to and I don't know if I'd be overstepping my bounds. I do not want them to get divorced. I love her very much.

[Robin Hood]

My sil has not let herself go in the looks dept, in fact, she looks better than ever after 3 kids, but my brother has been disappointed in the rest of the things you mentioned with his wife. They both have their faults but I still consider him lucky to have found her, even though she is a horrible housekeeper, cook, and laundry keeper. I have stayed there and she says it just doesn't float her boat. She gets no satisfaction. She has talked with her friends and they all tell her in time it ends up making everybody happy, but she says not for her. When my brother (construction) is not working, things get tense. Romance is always good for them, and I still say she is a gem. I wouldn't want my brother for a husband, even though he does laundry, cooks and cleans. They still bring out the best in each other.

By the way my sil's mother, grandmother and aunts take care of themselves, I don't think she'll ever let her self go, just the house.

[Karen in CO]

I've thought about having a heart-to-heart with her since counseling is unlikely but he has not asked me to and I don't know if I'd be overstepping my bounds. I do not want them to get divorced. I love her very much.

 

One question I have is, does SHE know that HE is talking to YOU about THEIR marriage? How would she feel about it? How would you feel? Does she know that he thinks she is disrespecting him? Has he told her that?

 

Have you seen for yourself this decline in her personal habits? Is she overwhelmed? Maybe she needs some motivational moms or flylady help. maybe a gift of a cleaning lady until she gets some control over the house. maybe a ymca membership so she can go workout and put the baby in childwatch for an hour. maybe there is something more directly helpful and less interfering than trying to counsel them.

 

What I am not doing a good job of explaining is - When my brother and SIL have marital trouble, I listen to my brother, do my good, big-sister act then tell him to talk to his wife. I love my SIL (I've know her since she was 10), but it is their marriage.

[Jill- OK]

I've thought about having a heart-to-heart with her since counseling is unlikely but he has not asked me to and I don't know if I'd be overstepping my bounds. I do not want them to get divorced. I love her very much.

 

...that could go either way, I think.

 

I certainly wouldn't intimate that he's complained to you (I know you're a smart cookie, lol, and wouldn't do that)...but I might reach out to her a little more, and be an open ear, just in case.

 

I understand not wanting them to get divorced. :-( I'd follow the road open to me (your relationship with your brother) and encourage him to see what he can do differently. Even if this is mostly her...neither you nor he can do anything to change her.

 

And here's my answer to the original question...yes, I have let myself go in certain areas...but only because Nature was pulling on them, really hard. :D

[5kidsforME]

Has your brother seen Fireproof? They had a great book that he could start using that goes along with that. It may help turn their relationship around.

[Nestof3]

Well, the problem is he doesn't really believe in counseling of any kind. He says they are just professional "opinion-havers".

 

I actually think some of this is true. You will most likely find a group who sympathize most with one and one with the other. I think the same is true for lawyers. I think in general, most people give advice based on their own experiences -- I see it even on this board. What would make counselors any different?

 

My husband was actually speaking to a man at our house church one day about something (how he saw something as unbiblical), and this counselor cut him off and stated most firmly, "Nothing you could say could change the way I think about ______." He wouldn't even let him explain himself. It was obvious his mind was firmly made up.

[Nestof3]

oops -- nevermind -- I just saw she was working too.

Edited November 24, 2008 by nestof3

[gardening momma]

I have not had the time to read the entire thread. Sometimes the weight gain can be medical, but not necessarily diagnosable: one of my sisters was fairly slim when she got married. Within 6-12 months after the wedding she gained a lot of weight (I would guess anywhere from 50-75 lbs. or more). She had all kinds of tests done, including thyroid. Everything came back normal. There was no explanation for her sudden weight gain. This was about 10 years ago. She is still very heavy. However, she doesn't dress in sweats & such. She dresses very nicely.

[lynn]

How old is your sil? If she's younger or this is her first marriage and has always lived at home before she may just not know how to get organized enough to keep house, cook dinner, grocery shop, care for child, work etc. Scheduling, organizing etc does not come naturally to most and has to be learned. Somtimes it's easier to just choose to do nothing when you get overwhelmed and not know where to begin. Maybe suggest flylady or some other books or sights that would help her learn these skills.

[LauraGB]

One question I have is, does SHE know that HE is talking to YOU about THEIR marriage? How would she feel about it? How would you feel? Does she know that he thinks she is disrespecting him? Has he told her that?

 

 

You know, at first, this is what I thought, too. My mom's family has 11 living siblings and when they turn to one another, the spouse may as well hang it up. But then, considering that Heather loves her SIL, I thought it was way better he was going to his sister for comfort/advise, than say, a co-worker or someone else. KWIM?

 

Heather, I say work your magic w/your brother being the voice of reason, especially if he is unwilling to go for counseling. Would SIL go on her own? Just asking because being the sister and the go-between might get a little too hairy for you.

[readwithem]

This is lovely.

[happyWImom]

That's what I was trying to say. :D

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

So much of the way we are, depends on the way we are treated. She could be slightly depressed, for a number of reasons, and then if she feels that her husband is disappointed in her because she's not as thin, doesn't dress as well, doesn't keep the house the way he likes it, doesn't cook the meals he likes, etc.....Of course that would be enough to make her more depressed, and then she won't be motivated to do anything different.

 

I sort of know what he's saying, but the "bait and switch" comment makes me think that even though he hasn't out and out said anything-she knows his feelings.

[readwithem]

So...she 'only' works three days a week. And has a four-year old. Your brother works 60 hrs a week, and so I'm guessing that the expectation is that she's responsible for the housework ("...She does not keep the house clean enough for him, same with laundry, dinner is sporadic, etc. etc.")?

:iagree: This sounds like they're keeping score.

 

 

I have to admit that I'm not sure I can give a really unbiased answer, because the use of the term 'marital bait and switch', used only as a means of description for a woman's looks, is quite disgusting to me.

 

:iagree: So much has happened to HER since their marriage, pregnancy, body changes, hormones, etc.

Agreeing that hormones and depression are very likely. He could support her by encouraging her to see a doctor, even making the appointment and going with her.

 

It's been a long time since I had a 4 yo :) but on one hand that age was more exhausting than newborn.

[Lolly]

To answer your question, no, I haven't "let myself go". Myself has gone on its own. It didn't need my permission.

 

I started out a jeans and sweats ponytail wearer with no makeup. I am still a jeans and ponytail with no makeup. I very close to twice the weight I was when dh married me 20 years ago. I have tried, there really isn't anything I can do about it. The dr has offered me a prescription to help me lose weight. However, when I questioned him further on it, he agreed that it with the way my body works the weight would most likely just come back as soon as I quit taking it. The medication has severe health risks and shouldn't be used long term, so what is the point in taking it in the first place?

 

When my kids were little, I could clean the house during the day. By the time dh came home, it would be a mess again. I'm not much of a cook either.

 

I thank God that my dh is understanding, supportive, and likes to cook.

[Danestress]

For him to be talking this way to you. I really do. I can't even tell you how it would make me feel to find out my husband was talking about my weight and my dress and housekeeping in a negative way with his sister.

 

Working 30 hours a week is sort of a lot for a woman with a child. I bet she feels like the housework is at least partly his responsibility, but I don't know that she really thinks about that. And she needs to talk about it with him. And he needs to talk about it with her, not you. Even if he doesn't get the response he wants from her, I just don't think it's right to blab that way to your relatives. I'm a woman, and we supposedly are the "talkers" but I would NEVER talk my list of complaints to my sisters, even though we are close and talk a lot. I don't think they would let me, and I wouldn't listen to them do it either.

[5kidsforME]

For him to be talking this way to you. I really do. I can't even tell you how it would make me feel to find out my husband was talking about my weight and my dress and housekeeping in a negative way with his sister.

 

 

 

I agree with this 100%.

[always cookin']

I have never kept a house well, even when I only had one child and didn't work outside the home. I wonder now why I couldn't manage it then. But for whatever reason, I couldn't. My husband never saw it as disrespectful to him. We all have our faults. It seems like he is just pointing out hers and making everything worse. He needs to lighten up and clean the house himself if it really bothers him. Without criticizing her while he's doing it.