Are you really good at making pie crust? How can I become better?

[Ginevra]

I think I need to watch some YouTubes on this or something. I find it so frustrating. There are ominous warnings in my cookbook to use minimal cold water and very minimal handling to keep the fat undisturbed (to make it flaky), but I don’t succeed in getting the dough really into a “dough” form. Good bits of it are crumbling off. It’s difficult to roll it into something approaching a thin circle. 

I haven’t practiced it much and often, if I’m making a pie, I’ll be sharing it and so I want it to turn out. So I often “cheat” by using the pre-made roll-out crusts. But I don’t really want to use those anymore. I want to successfully make my own pie crust all of the time. I made a chicken pot pie tonight and I think it will be adequate for a family meal, but I want to learn to do it well and hopefully with less frustration. 

In truth, I have never actually seen it done. So I’m flyin’ blind. 

[regentrude]

Do you let your dough rest in the fridge before rolling it out? It needs to chill for at least an hour.

ETA: Also, try using high fat European butter instead of the American supermarket butter which has a high water content.

Edited October 14, 2018 by regentrude

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Do you let your dough rest in the fridge before rolling it out? It needs to chill for at least an hour.

Yes, but it’s still not really cohesively in a “ball”. So when I start rolling it out it’s  crumbling all to heck. 

[regentrude]

1 minute ago, Quill said:

Yes, but it’s still not really cohesively in a “ball”. So when I start rolling it out it’s  crumbling all to heck. 

Might be too dry then. Have you tried adding some water, reworking, and re-chilling it?

[marbel]

I could never make good pie crust till I made this recipe:  Ina Garten perfect pie crust. Note that she uses a food processor, and 'm sure some people will say that's all wrong, but this recipe produces the best crust I've found.  When I make a pie, I get compliments on the crust when I use this recipe, and when I use the Pillsbury brand refrigerated crusts. Anything else, no one comments on it except my family, to tell me it's not quite right.  

I use regular unsalted butter from Costco.  Sometimes I use shortening, sometimes I don't. 

 

Edited October 14, 2018 by marbel

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, regentrude said:

Might be too dry then. Have you tried adding some water, reworking, and re-chilling it?

I think that is the problem. I just watched a video from allrecipes and the demonstrator’s dough was more dough-ball-ish before chilling. 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, marbel said:

I could never make good pie crust till I made this recipe:  Ina Garten perfect pie crust. Note that she uses a food processor, and 'm sure some people will say that's all wrong, but this recipe produces the best crust I've found.  When I make a pie, I get compliments on the crust when I use this recipe, and when I use the Pillsbury brand refrigerated crusts. Anything else, no one comments on it except my family, to tell me it's not quite right.  

I use regular unsalted butter from Costco.  Sometimes I use shortening, sometimes I don't. 

 

Hey! This does look like a good option and I really love that there is a video as well as the written instructions. I’m going to try this next time. My family will be happy because I’m making pie just for us, lol. 

[SamanthaCarter]

I err on the side of too sticky and roll out with lots of flour. 

King Arthur Flour has lots of good advice. I like thier rolling technique. 

[RootAnn]

My water isn't usually cold. I only use Crisco. However, my recipe uses vinegar and egg. (It is similar to this one, but I don't measure anything --just eyeball it.)

I do refrigerate it, and I roll it out between sheets of waxed paper that have been sprayed with non-stick veg oil.

It is easy and very difficult to mess up, IMO. One of my friends swears I must use lard. I think that is a complement coming from her.

[Miss Tick]

Substitute some vinegar or vodka for 1/3ish of the water. The liquid helps it form a cohesive ball, but both of those will bake away in the heat of the oven and leave you with a flakier crust. Worry less about overworking the dough - I did the same thing, stupid cautionary statements.

Oh, if you use vinegar it will smell bad while it bakes, but none of that will be in the flavor of the pie.

[catz]

I haven't read all the responses yet, but this cook's illustrated recipe is my favorite.  

https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2007/11/cooks-illustrated-foolproof-pie-dough-recipe.html

It has a little bit of vodka in it that cooks out but that little extra moisture makes it so much easier to roll out.   Also uses a food processor.  Easy peasy!

Edited October 15, 2018 by FuzzyCatz

[ScoutTN]

I tried for years to make consistently good pie crust. Now I do!!

I make mine in a Kitchen Aid mixer and it comes out perfectly every time. Every time! I use high quality butter or half butter and half lard from pastured pigs. (Not the stuff in the grocery!) The lard makes the crust extra flaky and yummy. I won't use Crisco; that stuff grosses me out.

• 1 and 1/4 C. flour
• 1/4 t. salt
• 1t. sugar (optional)
• 1/2 C. very cold butter, chopped into small pieces. 

Mix flour and salt in mixer bowl. Toss butter to cover with flour. Mix on medium until it looks evenly textured, about pea sized. Add 3-6 T. ice cold water, one at a time, while mixing on slow, until dough comes together.

This dough works well rolled out immediately, but you can chill or freeze it too.  I use it for dessert pies and for main dishes like chx pot pie. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by ScoutTN

[fairfarmhand]

sounds  like you need a bit more water. I go for a play dough texture. I make tons of pies and my crust is really good. The key is to keep making them till you get the knack. It does get better with practice.

Edited October 15, 2018 by fairfarmhand

[LuvToRead]

42 minutes ago, SusanC said:

Substitute some vinegar or vodka for 1/3ish of the water. The liquid helps it form a cohesive ball, but both of those will bake away in the heat of the oven and leave you with a flakier crust. Worry less about overworking the dough - I did the same thing, stupid cautionary statements.

Oh, if you use vinegar it will smell bad while it bakes, but none of that will be in the flavor of the pie.

Does the vinegar do the same thing as the vodka?  I've seen recipes using vodka, but we are non-drinkers and I feel silly buying vodka just for a pie crust.  I may try vinegar next time.

Edited October 15, 2018 by LuvToRead

[LuvToRead]

3 hours ago, Quill said:

I think I need to watch some YouTubes on this or something. I find it so frustrating. There are ominous warnings in my cookbook to use minimal cold water and very minimal handling to keep the fat undisturbed (to make it flaky), but I don’t succeed in getting the dough really into a “dough” form. Good bits of it are crumbling off. It’s difficult to roll it into something approaching a thin circle. 

I haven’t practiced it much and often, if I’m making a pie, I’ll be sharing it and so I want it to turn out. So I often “cheat” by using the pre-made roll-out crusts. But I don’t really want to use those anymore. I want to successfully make my own pie crust all of the time. I made a chicken pot pie tonight and I think it will be adequate for a family meal, but I want to learn to do it well and hopefully with less frustration. 

In truth, I have never actually seen it done. So I’m flyin’ blind. 

I also have bad luck with pie crusts.  It is my baking nemesis!  I will be trying some of these tips mentioned in this thread.

[school17777]

Question for you pie crust bakers, can you make this ahead of time and freeze the ball of dough?

[school17777]

Quill, if you give up on making one, Trader Joe’s frozen pie crusts (that you unroll) are the best!  Tastes homemade.

[AmandaVT]

Here's my friend's recipe. It comes out perfectly every time. I was never a pie fan until I tried this crust. ?

 

2 1/2 cups flour
1/2 cup shortening
1/4 cup cold butter, cut small
2 tbsp sugar
A little bit of salt
6-8 tbsp or so of cold water or cider
 

[Mergath]

I always need to use twice as much water (at least) as the recipes call for. I don't know if my kitchen is really dry or what, but if I follow the recipes exactly I end up with a pile of crumbly flour.

[KungFuPanda]

1 hour ago, LuvToRead said:

Does the vinegar do the same thing as the vodka?  I've seen recipes using vodka, but we are non-drinkers and I feel silly buying vodka just for a pie crust.  I may try vinegar next time.

Buy the cheap vodka. You can make pies, clean your make-up brushes, remove stains, deodorize fabrics, and make homemade vanilla. 

ALL the recipes do scare everyone away from using enough liquid. If you can find Anerica’s Test Kitchen on streaming, they have a pie episode. 

[catz]

56 minutes ago, KungFuPanda said:

Buy the cheap vodka. You can make pies, clean your make-up brushes, remove stains, deodorize fabrics, and make homemade vanilla. 

ALL the recipes do scare everyone away from using enough liquid. If you can find Anerica’s Test Kitchen on streaming, they have a pie episode. 

Agree.  A small bottle of vodka is just vanilla without vanilla beans and will last for many years.  We only have it in the ho7se for culinary purposes.  

[Ausmumof3]

Just ignore the stupid recipes and add a little more water.  I couldn’t do it for years and then ds who was ten at the time and way more willing to ignore the methodology made a beautiful pie.  So now I know.  You don’t want a soggy mess but a bit of extra to stick it together is ok.

[Suzanne in ABQ]

There are obviously a million and one ways to make a pie crust.  I've never heard of using vodka.  I may need to try that.  I make delicious pie crust, though, and I use a very simple recipe (just flour, shortening, salt, and water).  I don't think it's the recipe that matters as much as the technique.  I learned my technique from my ex-mil, who won lots of baking awards.  I think it would work with any recipe.

In a very large mixing bowl, combine the flour and salt, then cut in shortening with a pastry blender until shortening is evenly distributed in rice-size particles, which loosely stick together when squeezed in hand, then will easily crumble apart again.  If it's too dry to hold together, add a tiny bit more shortening, and work it in.  If it's too sticky, add some flour.  

Then, for the water, use an old-fashioned sprinkler bottle (like grandma used to use for ironing), or I use a bottle that used to have a spice in it, so I have the holes.  Sometimes I use a spray bottle.  Fill it with cold water.

In your bowl, push all your flour/shortening particles to one side of the bowl, and place that side away from you (so the side of the bowl nearest you is empty).  Sprinkle or spray cold water on the surface of the flour/fat particles until it's quite wet.  Use a fork to *flick* *flick* *flick* the surface bits toward you, toward the empty side of the bowl.  The water should have caused them to stick together into about pea-size.  Spray/sprinkle the dry particles again, and repeat the flicking motion to bring those wet particles toward you, adding them to the other pea sized bits.  (They shouldn't be so wet that they turn into a blob.  You want separate pea-sized lumps piled up on the side of the bowl nearest you.  Continue to spray/sprinkle, then flick, then spray/sprinkle, then flick, until all the particles are now in pea-sized pellets, piled up in your large bowl.  

Each of these little doughy bits is going to be an individual flake.  You don't want to knead them into one mass.  You just want to press them together into a ball (or two, if you're making a double recipe).  Let them rest in a ball for about 20 minutes. 

If it cracks when you roll it out, that means there wasn't enough water.  Just make a note to add more water next time.  You can try putting it back in the bowl to break it up again with the pastry blender, then spread it out in the bowl, and give it all a quick spritz of water before pressing it back into a ball.  That probably won't get the same result, though, because protein chains form in the dough as soon as the flour meets the water, and they don't get undone.  But it would at least give you a crust for your pie.

[Loowit]

I usually use more water than the recipe calls for. I find it easier to work with  if it is a bit too wet than if it is too dry.  I also find that using half butter and half lard or shortening makes for a flakier crust.

[JFSinIL2.0]

Am I the only baker who uses an oil-based crust?  Great-grandma's recipe was used by her, grandma, my folks and now moi, and 90% of the time works great, creating a flaky crust.  Using a fork, scant couple cups flour, scant three cups if a double crust needed, whisk in a few shakes of salt, then enough veggie oil  to get the dough very dryly coming together, then add cold water until it is dough.  Do not over mix.  Roll out between two sheets of waxed paper ( it will finish coming together as it is rolled.) Peel back one sheet to loosen, then replace, flip and peel off the other sheet.  Dough will stick enough to the first, loosened sheet that you can use it to flip into pie pan.  

If dough is way too easy to use, like play dough, odds are you added too much water.  It will bake hard, not flaky.  Too much oil and it will bake powdery.  It really goes by touch and instinct ..... No one has ever written down measurements.

 

Edited October 15, 2018 by JFSinIL2.0

[Mimm]

The more you kneed it, the easier it will be to handle and the worse it will taste. ? It's ok if it's falling apart and not a neat thin circle. At least, that's how I've made my peace with it. My crusts aren't beautiful. But they are so yummy. ?

 

[umsami]

Watch the Great British Bake Off on Netflix.

They always have pie week.   :)  Usually lots of good tips. :)

[City Mouse]

I like Alton Brown's pie crust recipe. He uses a spray bottle of ice water to get just enough but not too much water.

[EmseB]

Ina Garten's pie crust recipe changed my pie-life. It works for me every time without fail and is amazing. I put the shortening and butter (both cubed or diced or in some kind of smallish bits) in the freezer for 10 min while I mix up the dry stuff.

I was not good at making pie crust before I tried this recipe.

ETA: I see Marbel beat me to this post!!

Edited October 15, 2018 by EmseB

[Spy Car]

I love to cook but am honestly not much of a baker. On top of that disclaimer, this is a "tip," that I have never used myself and so many years have passed that I no longer remember the source of this information, but I'm pretty sure it was from printed media (pre-internet era).

What I do remember was that an enthusiastic authority on pies proclaimed that the only way to achieve the ultimate pie crust was to use caul fat, not shortening or butter. For those unfamiliar with caul fat, it is also called lace fat or fat netting for its spider-web type appearance. It is a time of fat that surrounds some internal organs.

The unremembered author waxed poetic about what a difference caul fat make in the pie crusts, to the point where it stuck in my head.

Have I ever put this bit of knowledge to work? No. Never. I don't bake pies and caul fat is not something I see in the market every day.

But with the disclaimers and provisos, I'm sharing a bit of untested trivia to get the ultimate pie crust that's been packed in my head for a very long time.

I'm not sure if the caul fat needs to be rendered prior to use for crust-making, but I expect so.

Bill

 

 

 

 

 

[cintinative]

My husband always uses the America's Test Kitchen recipe for pie crust. It has vodka in it and that really helps it to be more workable. 

He usually refrigerates the shortening ahead. I find with gluten free crust that the part animal fat shortening works better (it's hard to find anymore) but he said with the regular gluten crust Crisco works fine. 

https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2007/11/cooks-illustrated-foolproof-pie-dough-recipe.html

Note; the proof of vodka used is not the kind that you can buy at the grocery store.  We use 80 proof.  The other stuff will work but you will have to use less water.

If you have a subscription or can do the free trial, the original recipe is here: https://www.americastestkitchen.com/recipes/3919-foolproof-pie-dough  They have a bit more information/instruction on their site.

Edited to adjust website. The NY Times site is annoying.

Edited October 15, 2018 by cintinative

[Familia]

20 hours ago, Quill said:

I think I need to watch some YouTubes on this or something. I find it so frustrating. There are ominous warnings in my cookbook to use minimal cold water and very minimal handling to keep the fat undisturbed (to make it flaky), but I don’t succeed in getting the dough really into a “dough” form. Good bits of it are crumbling off. It’s difficult to roll it into something approaching a thin circle. 

I haven’t practiced it much and often, if I’m making a pie, I’ll be sharing it and so I want it to turn out. So I often “cheat” by using the pre-made roll-out crusts. But I don’t really want to use those anymore. I want to successfully make my own pie crust all of the time. I made a chicken pot pie tonight and I think it will be adequate for a family meal, but I want to learn to do it well and hopefully with less frustration. 

In truth, I have never actually seen it done. So I’m flyin’ blind. 

Do you have a food processor?  I make really good pie crust - don't even measure anymore.  This after years and years of every crust problem known to man.

[Familia]

Pie Crust - Quick and Flaky

• Notes:  
• it seems complicated - but isn't.  Just do it often, and you will get a feel for it, and your family will happily gobble up your practice attempts=)
• Without a food processor, simply cut up the cold butter in many pieces using a knife, and work in with your fingers quickly -really squishing it in.  Then, use a spatula to smoosh in the ice water - flip and smoosh - until blended.  I did it this way until I found it causes too much pain in my aging hands.  If done this way, completely by hand without a machine, I do freeze for a few minutes b/f rolling it out. 
• I want to note, when I go a little too damp, it just needs a lot more flour in rolling out steps, but, sometimes, more water means a lovely crackly and chewy texture...play around w/it, as long as it doesn't stick to the counter (see step 7) it can work fine.

 

1. In Food Processor with reg. blade, I whirl:

• 1 heaping cup of AP flour
• 1 tsp salt, I approximate in my hand
• 1 tsp sugar "   "   " (1 Tbsp if a sweet pie rather than quiche or pot pie)

2. Then, keeping dry ing's in bowl, I switch to large shredding disk and shred 1 stick cold butter into bowl on top of dry ing's

3. I quickly make ice water

4. Switch back to regular blade and everything's still in bowl.  In three additions while I pulse the processor, I add a total of 'about' 6 Tbsp of the ice water.  If it is forming a rough ball by then, it is good...otherwise I add a little more ice water.

5. Quickly sprinkle a lot of flour all over my counter in a circle, get out rolling pin, place pie plate nearby as well as keeping flour open next to me.

6. Gather with my hands the dough from fp bowl, not worrying about getting every dry scrap out.  (remember - it should be a rough ball, so a little damp is ok, but not wet...like someone said, go for the playdoh feel)  I gather dough firmly into a ball, then flatten into a disk - not being afraid to be firm.  But, I do work quickly.

7. Place dough disk on floured counter sprinkle flour generously over disk and rolling pin and have at it.  I really smoosh and keep tossing and rotating and rolling and sprinkling until I have a big circle - bigger than my pie plate.  Lots of flour sprinkled!  If, horrors, it sticks to counter during any rolls, I use a plastic bench scraper to pry it off and flip and flour more if needed.

8. Roll dough roughly around the pin, move into pan and ease down all around the pie plate.  

9. Cut crust off about 1" more than pie plate, fluting the lip with your thumb on one hand and your thumb and forefinger on another - that is hard to describe, but easy.

10.  I usually, if time, pop that in the freezer while I preheat the oven.  It does make it super, duper extra flakey by doing so.

11. There are so many possibilities for baking that I will leave that to your recipe.  I use this crazy often for dinner, not just dessert.  Quiche of many kinds or skip putting dough in pie plate and put on top of a filling of tuna alfredo for a Friday meal or chicken & peas w/white sauce for pot pie.  I find that for pot pie, it does better (and cooks faster) placed as a top crust only. 

Cook's Treat:  I gather the scraps from the edge and either make a savory treat or sweet.  Shape leftover crust into snake shape and roll flat.  For savory, I sprinkle with salt, garlic and parmesan, for sweet: sugar and cinnamon.  I twist these into long twists and bake on cookie sheet along w/pie...they bake faster ... they are the ultimate cook's treat!

 

P.S.  I used to work in a hospital kitchen and would watch the two full-time bakers we had.  Those ladies could bake!  I was intrigued by their pies especially, as they would not even watch while talking to me and rolling them out.  They taught me to work quickly, but not to be so afraid of over-working or anything.  After many, many years of failures caused by fear of too much flour or man-handling, I found that lack of those two things were the cause of most of my frustrations!

Edited October 15, 2018 by Familia

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Spy Car said:

I love to cook but am honestly not much of a baker. On top of that disclaimer, this is a "tip," that I have never used myself and so many years have passed that I no longer remember the source of this information, but I'm pretty sure it was from printed media (pre-internet era).

What I do remember was that an enthusiastic authority on pies proclaimed that the only way to achieve the ultimate pie crust was to use caul fat, not shortening or butter. For those unfamiliar with caul fat, it is also called lace fat or fat netting for its spider-web type appearance. It is a time of fat that surrounds some internal organs.

The unremembered author waxed poetic about what a difference caul fat make in the pie crusts, to the point where it stuck in my head.

Have I ever put this bit of knowledge to work? No. Never. I don't bake pies and caul fat is not something I see in the market every day.

But with the disclaimers and provisos, I'm sharing a bit of untested trivia to get the ultimate pie crust that's been packed in my head for a very long time.

I'm not sure if the caul fat needs to be rendered prior to use for crust-making, but I expect so.

Bill

 

 

 

 

 

Cool theory. I think caul fat might be outside of my league. But it’s interesting nonetheless. 

I have heard several times that it is best to use two types of fat - butter plus something else - to get more flavor. Some people swear by lard for flaky texture, but I have not personally tried it. 

Also - hi! I haven’t seen you in a while. ☺️

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Familia said:

Do you have a food processor?  I make really good pie crust - don't even measure anymore.  This after years and years of every crust problem known to man.

I do have a food processor and I think I am going to try using a food processor. (But first, I have a new problem - my fridge just gave out on me. So I can’t bring home more fridge goods until we replace it, which I very much hope will happen this week.)

[Familia]

32 minutes ago, Quill said:

I do have a food processor and I think I am going to try using a food processor. (But first, I have a new problem - my fridge just gave out on me. So I can’t bring home more fridge goods until we replace it, which I very much hope will happen this week.)

Oh, that is terrible.  Hope all works out soon, with minimal hassle and you get the fridge of your dreams!

[LucyStoner]

On 10/14/2018 at 3:35 PM, Quill said:

Yes, but it’s still not really cohesively in a “ball”. So when I start rolling it out it’s  crumbling all to heck. 

 

Too dry.  

Also chilling the dough in the fridge (hydrating the dough) is best down in slightly flattened discs rather than balls.  

[LucyStoner]

Pies are my specialty.  

Are you using lemon juice or vodka with the water?  

When I make it by hand (1-2 crusts at a time) or in the stand mixer (4 crusts at a time), I use lemon juice chilled with my water.  When I make it in a food processor (4 crusts) I skip the acid and use a slurry of water and cornstarch.  The former gets me the absolute best taste.  The latter gets very good taste and flake and a very easy to work with, hard to mess up dough.   

 

[LucyStoner]

Re: fat.  Butter is the best for flavor.  High quality fresh lard is also great for flavor and a tender, flaky crust.  Shortening is easiest to work with and easy to do decorative flourishes as it doesn’t shrink like butter crusts do in the oven.  Freezing the pie for 30 minutes before baking helps minimize the shrinkage on an all butter crust.  Pies with two different kinds of fat tend to be butter+shortening to try and marry the flavor of one with the workability of the other.  I don’t do it that way.  Sometimes I will use some olive oil in the crust of a savory pie.  

Butter is my preferred fat becuase finding fresh lard is a feat and I don’t think the lard on the shelf at the grocery store is any better flavor wise than Crisco.  

Cheap butter has more water in it and the water content of both your flour and your fat affect how much water you need to use to hydrate the crust. I tend to use cheap butter because that’s what I can afford and we make a lot of pies in the fall and winter especially but it does mean adding the water a little at a time, mixing a little and going by sight and feel.  

[PeppermintPattie]

On 10/14/2018 at 6:59 PM, school17777 said:

Question for you pie crust bakers, can you make this ahead of time and freeze the ball of dough?

I freeze the dough between sheets of parchment or waxed paper after rolling it out. It's hard to find a round container large enough to hold the crusts, but once you do, it's a great time saver at the holidays!

[LucyStoner]

On 10/14/2018 at 6:59 PM, school17777 said:

Question for you pie crust bakers, can you make this ahead of time and freeze the ball of dough?

 

I have 4 discs of pie crust in my freezer right now.  I start making a batch every weekend in mid October so I’m good to go with all the pies in November and December.   

[SamanthaCarter]

Frozen doughs of all kinds this time of year are a huge help a month from now!