Article entitled, "Everything You Know About Obesity is Wrong"

[umsami]

I'm glad to see this article.  Still so much ignorance out there...  It won't let me copy/paste text, but it's worth the read.

https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/everything-you-know-about-obesity-is-wrong/ 

 

For decades, the medical community has ignored mountains of evidence to wage a cruel and futile war on fat people, poisoning public perception and ruining millions of lives.

Edited September 20, 2018 by umsami

[wintermom]

Sorry to be blunt, but the title of this thread is inaccurate. There is definitely a lot the medical community is in the process of learning, but to state boldly that "everything you know about obesity is wrong" is also wrong, and frankly, deliberately inflammatory. Are you trolling for a reason?

[umsami]

1 minute ago, wintermom said:

Sorry to be blunt, but the title of this thread is inaccurate. There is definitely a lot the medical community is in the process of learning, but to state boldly that "everything you know about obesity is wrong" is also wrong, and frankly, deliberately inflammatory. Are you trolling for a reason?

?????

It's the title of the article.  Not my doing.  As somebody who has been obese and morbidly obese my entire life, gone through multiple bariatric procedures, and a heck of a lot of discrimination, no...I am not trolling.  I have been tracking obesity research for over 30 years, and am extremely well versed on the reality.  Unfortunately, in spite of what has been known for years, the vast majority of people still resort to prejudices.   I am trying to awaken people to the fact that a lot of things they think they know about obese folks is frankly 100% wrong.  Does it mean you personally? Of course not.   Does it mean a vast majority of physicians and the lay-public? Absolutely.  

 

[maggie18]

Trolling??? What the????

OP- am really glad you posted this article...it is interesting and I will be sharing it with friends.  Thank you!

[Lady Florida.]

14 minutes ago, wintermom said:

Sorry to be blunt, but the title of this thread is inaccurate. There is definitely a lot the medical community is in the process of learning, but to state boldly that "everything you know about obesity is wrong" is also wrong, and frankly, deliberately inflammatory. Are you trolling for a reason?

While I agree with you about the article, Umsami doesn't troll. Ever. 

Now, for the article: 

I saw it yesterday on facebook. Facebook and HuffPo are among the last places I look for accurate, scientific information. The title is misleading. Using the word everything is like using the words all, never. always. The reality is rarely everything, nothing, all, always, never. While I agree with the article that doctors shouldn't be shaming, they should treat obese patients, all patients really (yes, I said all but in this case it fits) with the same respect. They should look for causes without automatically blaming obesity. But they should not discount obesity as a cause or contributor to certain health problems.

Though each of these articles are older, they're more accurate and scientific -

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-obesity-paradox/

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/9528/

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/bmi-and-the-obesity-epidemic/

Edited September 20, 2018 by Lady Florida.

[RootAnn]

I saw an article the other day about cholesterol not being linked with heart disease. Something like taking statins doesn't lower your heart disease risk. (Look it up if you are interested because I'm not saying it right.)

[unsinkable]

the thread title is sensationalized, IMO

I expected to open it and for the next line to be:

Number 3 will shock you!

[RootAnn]

But think of how many people have clicked on the link!

[Lady Florida.]

8 minutes ago, RootAnn said:

I saw an article the other day about cholesterol not being linked with heart disease. Something like taking statins doesn't lower your heart disease risk. (Look it up if you are interested because I'm not saying it right.)

That's been around nearly as long as statins themselves. The research and evidence doesn't support it though.

The most recent study was published just this year -

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/new-study-finds-that-statins-prevent-cardiovascular-deaths/

link to the actual study from the JAMA - https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2678614?redirect=true

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/statins-the-impact-of-negative-media-reports-and-the-risks-of-discontinuing-treatment/

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/update-on-cholesterol-and-statins/

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/statins-the-cochrane-review/

Preventative statins for everyone is not necessarily the right choice, but that doesn't mean they aren't effective at what they are meant to do.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/statins-for-everyone-not-so-fast/

[kbutton]

I appreciate this article. I have not always been obese, but my body suddenly decided to go into utter rebellion upon having children--allergies, asthma, increase in migraines, weight gain, you name it. The best thing about this article? I'm not even all the way through it, and I feel like trying to take care of myself might actually be worth it if I can continue talking myself into not caring about my image in the mirror. Take this information, which I suspect to be very true:

Quote

Many “failed” obesity interventions are, in fact, successful eat-healthier-and-exercise-more interventions. A review of 44 international studies found that school-based activity programs didn’t affect kids’ weight, but improved their athletic ability, tripled the amount of time they spent exercising and reduced their daily TV consumption by up to an hour. Another survey showed that two years of getting kids to exercise and eat better didn’t noticeably affect their size but did improve their math scores—an effect that was greater for black kids than white kids.

 

For myself, I can say that my "numbers" on most things are better than they were when I was thin and eating a [so called] heart-healthy diet. My highest cholesterol reading was taken when I was thin. My cholesterol as a fat person has been consistently good. (Family history on one side is run-away high cholesterol regardless of diet and weight; the other side is good cholesterol regardless of diet and weight.) 

If I can remind myself that eating better is good for me whether I am thin or fat and remind myself that exercising is good for me whether I am thin or fat, this article, IMO is doing something good.

[kbutton]

Additionally, does anyone realize how out of control the "lose weight" message has become from insurance companies?

My son, who has spent more of his life falling off the BOTTOM of the weight chart while hitting up to 99th percentile for height gets mailings suggesting that he needs to lose weight and move more. Why does he get these thoughtless "encouragements?" He's on blood pressure meds for a genetic condition (one that can be fatal). Some idiot at the insurance company decided that when a kid is put on blood pressure meds, it should trip these mailings. 

Even the pharmacy gets this wrong, but they don't assume he's fat. They assume my 10 year old is geriatric and needs specialty caps on the bottles for his meds. All of his other meds come with the regular caps!!! 

[SKL]

Nice article.

[Penelope]

The article seemed more like a rant and a brain dump of everything the author thinks is unfair about obesity than a reasonable discussion.

One thing I did agree with is that most physicians just don’t address weight at all, or do it without specific recommendations. And also, they don’t know much about nutrition in the first place. It might be better if they just told all patients, not just obese but everyone, to eat 8 or more servings of fruits and vegetables per day and walk thirty minutes per day. Everyone should do that and it is a positive message, not vague and not dangerous like some of the diets that are out there. 

But the article has so many contradictions. The person practically starving themselves is doing so on fatty, sugary, but unsatisfying higher calorie foods like Ritz crackers, granola bars and orange juice. No wonder she feels awful and isn’t losing weight; feeling  unsatisfied leads to binging and these processed foods lead to more cravings anyway. Another person is mentioned with the same behaviors, depriving themselves and then binging in secret. So the conclusion the author makes from this disordered behavior is that, what? All obese people will do these things because they are shamed and so nothing done to address the obesity will logically work? This isn’t true and doesn’t make sense. There doesn’t really seem to be a point to it, 

 

[SKL]

10 minutes ago, kbutton said:

Additionally, does anyone realize how out of control the "lose weight" message has become from insurance companies?

My son, who has spent more of his life falling off the BOTTOM of the weight chart while hitting up to 99th percentile for height gets mailings suggesting that he needs to lose weight and move more. Why does he get these thoughtless "encouragements?" He's on blood pressure meds for a genetic condition (one that can be fatal). Some idiot at the insurance company decided that when a kid is put on blood pressure meds, it should trip these mailings. 

Even the pharmacy gets this wrong, but they don't assume he's fat. They assume my 10 year old is geriatric and needs specialty caps on the bottles for his meds. All of his other meds come with the regular caps!!! 

Yes, my eldest (almost 12yo) has no apparent fat on her body, is very active and doesn't eat particularly well.  Presumably due to her muscle content, she weighs more than average for her height.  She has mentioned dieting more than once.  I keep telling her that if she loses weight, she'll be losing muscle and won't do well in the sports she loves.  Not sure she believes me.

I liked the article because of the focus on health vs. weight.  It got me moving even as I read it.

I still want to be thin again, and maybe I will be, but while I'm "squishy" I'd at least like to be healthy, smart, energetic.

[TravelingChris]

I did learn a few interesting things in that article- like the math scores increasing with better food and more activity though not drops in weight.  

I am so happy I have doctors who do not bug me about my weight.  I am overweight, not obese but I know that I do not want to go into normal BMI range.  I have researched death rates for different BMI groups and different causes of death.  The ones that I am most likely to die from all benefit from being overweight-  blood clots and pneumonias.  In fact, for a whole lot of diseases, overweight is better than normal weight.    I don't do diets, just try to eat more healthy foods.   I totally agree on focusing on health, not obsessing about weight.

And it is outrageous that doctors are recommending and praising eating disorders in Obese or overweight people. No, it is not a good thing to starve oneself.  

[Scarlett]

1 hour ago, wintermom said:

Sorry to be blunt, but the title of this thread is inaccurate. There is definitely a lot the medical community is in the process of learning, but to state boldly that "everything you know about obesity is wrong" is also wrong, and frankly, deliberately inflammatory. Are you trolling for a reason?

She isn't a troll. She never trolls.  

I didn't click on the link though.  

[DesertBlossom]

Interesting article. I am not sure what the takeaway is though. It talks about doctors giving unhelpful advice and shaming their patients but then the article states that change has to start with the doctors. 

I know I'm pretty jaded by doctors in general, having gotten some really bad (sometimes dangerous) recommendations over the years, but I don't think doctors are going to solve anything. Most don't know a dang thing about nutrition and what they think they know comes from government guidelines that have proven themselves to be wrong over and over.

I think we need to give people the power, confidence and tools to find their own answers. There is a lot of good nutritional information out there, but expecting doctors to be ones to provide that information to patients is a little too optimistic.

Edited September 20, 2018 by DesertBlossom

[Petrichor]

Interesting article, thanks for sharing.

 

 

[MeghanL]

I read this article yesterday and while I appreciated the Human Condition story of it,  I was really hopeful that there would be something in the article that was research based and effective.. 

If the medical community sees your BMI and says "you should eat better and exercise more" that's not very helpful for someone that is already eating less than 1000 calories a day, but if they exercise more they eat more and then gain weight. 

But in this article, they kind of just say "The medical community shouldn't shame you for your weight." And while I can appreciate the message of not fat-shaming; that doesn't really help to combat obesity either. 

Weight loss is something so many struggle with because it's NOT as simple as do A, B and C and don't do D, E and F. (or maybe it is..but those variables aren't going to be the same for every person and I haven't found mine yet.)

Edited September 20, 2018 by MeghanL

[Jean in Newcastle]

I read the article.  I kept reading and reading and reading hoping to find some actual helpful information at the end because i too struggle so much with my weight.  I found it extremely depressing to find absolutely no suggestions of what will work and an overall message of "nothing will work".  I know about the fat shaming :  a man in the grocery store literally bumped into me at the grocery store last year and said "get out of my way, Fat Pig".  I know about the lack of information and constant advice to lose weight.  Did you know that I would be cured of fibromyalgia if I just lost weight?  Never mind that I started having fibro symptoms about 30 years ago when I was very very thin?  I know about the clueless friends and family:  one well meaning friend took me on a long walk that was physically very difficult for me in order to show me just how I could exercise my fat away.  I couldn't walk at all the next day.  (We're still friends.  She understands a bit better now.  But I do not bring up weight with her EVER.)   Anyway, to come full circle, I suppose the point of the article was to try to convince normal weight people that their perceptions are off?  I wonder how many times people have tried to do that in threads on this board and people have absolutely refused to be convinced.  For that reason I will post this but won't be continuing to read the thread (probably) because I end up getting way to depressed on these threads. 

BTW- what is working for me very very slowly is:  trying to get my bloodsugars under control with diet, exercise and meds.  But it is super hard because bloodsugars aren't a linear thing.  There is a lot more than a low(er) carb diet involved.  Right now I'm fighting a cold virus and my sugars are up no matter what I eat - just as one example. 

I am also working on my exercise - not so much for weight loss but because I would like to stay out of a wheelchair for as long as possible.  Last night stats:  241 consecutive days of reaching my step goal (with two small one or two day breaks because I was sick with an actual fever).  113 consecutive days of doing my hip exercises so that I no longer teeter when I stand up from sitting.  12 days of doing "bird dogs" to try to strengthen my core.  (The first 60 days of any new exercise leaves me in a flare with muscle cramping etc. so I am very careful to only add one exercise at a time.)  This is very much a very long-range game for me. 

[SKL]

Yeah, I think part of the message is that there is no one right answer that applies to everyone.  Hopefully someday there will at least be some answers that are tailored to the individual or subgroup.  My friends keep sending me these "do this, don't do that" messages and I always say that what's right for some people isn't necessarily right for everyone / for me.  I think the only thing that is true fairly consistently is "all things do in moderation" - but then there are, of course, exceptions, such as people who will die if they eat oranges etc.  I think any advice that reduces the popularity of extreme, all-or-nothing diets is good.

I also think that although it may not have worded it clearly, the article says that calorie count is a lot less important than what makes up those calories, and also less important than exercise / active lifestyle.

[extendedforecast]

I read this last night. What a depressing article! 

“As early as 1969, research showed that losing just 3 percent of your body weight resulted in a 17 percent slowdown in your metabolism—a body-wide starvation response that blasts you with hunger hormones and drops your internal temperature until you rise back to your highest weight. Keeping weight off means fighting your body’s energy-regulation system and battling hunger all day, every day, for the rest of your life.”

For me that would be a little more than four pounds. My goal is to lose 10-15 pounds. So if I hit that goal of ten pounds weight loss, I’m going to struggle the rest of my life to keep it off? That sucks. And in thinking back, I previously lost about five to seven pounds only to gain it back and then some during a very stressful year.

And no one knows what the right answer is. It’s truly depressing, especially the way obese people are treated by the medical community. 

Edited September 20, 2018 by extendedforecast

[Kassia]

This is a good book addressing this subject:
 

https://www.amazon.com/Health-At-Every-Size-Surprising/dp/1935618253

[extendedforecast]

14 minutes ago, SKL said:

Yeah, I think part of the message is that there is no one right answer that applies to everyone.  Hopefully someday there will at least be some answers that are tailored to the individual or subgroup.  My friends keep sending me these "do this, don't do that" messages and I always say that what's right for some people isn't necessarily right for everyone / for me.  I think the only thing that is true fairly consistently is "all things do in moderation" - but then there are, of course, exceptions, such as people who will die if they eat oranges etc.  I think any advice that reduces the popularity of extreme, all-or-nothing diets is good.

I also think that although it may not have worded it clearly, the article says that calorie count is a lot less important than what makes up those calories, and also less important than exercise / active lifestyle.

Regarding the bolded, I’ve always been told the opposite:  Weight loss doesn’t come from working out; it’s a result of what and how much one eats. 

I hope it’s about what makes up the calories and the activity one gets. If only we knew the rules of the game, we could have a fighting chance at winning. 

[extendedforecast]

@Jean in Newcastle, I too read through the article looking for the answer to the problem and was disappointed at the lack of answers. Eating whole foods seems like the only takeaway. 

[SKL]

1 minute ago, extendedforecast said:

Regarding the bolded, I’ve always been told the opposite:  Weight loss doesn’t come from working out; it’s a result of what and how much one eats. 

I hope it’s about what makes up the calories and the activity one gets. If only we knew the rules of the game, we could have a fighting chance at winning. 

Weight loss may be (for some), but health is a broader topic than weight loss.

Also, perhaps off topic, but what does "weight loss" mean in the context of serial dieters?  Is it a net concept over a lifetime, or is it a diet-by-diet figure?

[extendedforecast]

9 minutes ago, SKL said:

Weight loss may be (for some), but health is a broader topic than weight loss.

Also, perhaps off topic, but what does "weight loss" mean in the context of serial dieters?  Is it a net concept over a lifetime, or is it a diet-by-diet figure?

I agree. Research shows that weight loss lowers the risk of many diseases and health conditions. I think that is why I’m particularly interested in weight loss. I know that as I age, I’m going to naturally put on weight. My goal is not to avoid that weight gain in the future but to lose a little and maintain it beforehand so that when I do gain that weight, I’m not overweight and at increased risk for those conditions. I have a family history of diabetes on both sides of my family. I figure I’ll eventually get it but hopefully decades from now. 

I’m not a serial dieter, so I have no idea what consitutes weight loss. I tend to approach weight loss through exercise primarily and some modifications to my diet. I’ve never “gone on a diet.”

Edited September 20, 2018 by extendedforecast

[umsami]

Tried to change the post title to be more clear, less inflammatory.

Gina Kolata of the NY Times had a great book on obesity research over the past century or so.  It was really good, and I wish she'd do an updated version based on what we now know about the gut micro biome.

I'll try and post some other resources later.

For me, I can tell you that nearly everybody with whom I had bariatric surgery with (both times, different procedures) gained back most to all of their weight.  Many have had revisions.  The only exception is those who under-went a duodenal switch.   I personally have decided that if one removes 90% of one's stomach, and/or bypasses a good portion of one's intestines (and thus the calories/nutrients you absorb), and one is still obese--then it's obviously more complicated than many people think.

I walk 10,000+ steps per day.  I do yoga 2-3 times per week in a class, more often at home.  I life weights.  I still will never be able to eat more than 1-1/2 to 2 pieces of pizza at a time, or finish a normal sized hamburger or sandwich....even 10 years after my sleeve gastrectomy.  I try and make at least half of my plate fruits/veggies/legumes.  I'm still obese. So be it.  

I struggle with the fact that one out of four of my kids inherited my crappy genes (the rest can eat anything and everything and are below normal in BMI).... is now having success with weight watchers.  I struggle with the fact if I've started him on a horrible yo-yo lifestyle.  I always wondered if I hadn't started dieting at 10, ordering diet pills from the back of magazines, ridiculous 400-500 calorie diets at diet centers, etc.  If I had just accepted my weight.  Would I have ever gotten this fat?  Probably not.  But who knows.  Even zoo animals whose diets are rigidly controlled are facing obesity problems.  It's obviously more than just food.  It's the chemicals.... the change in the food....a whole bunch of things.  I'd add one hundred pounds to my weight if I could save my son a lifetime of heartache.

[kbutton]

I think one takeaway from the depressing lack of effective information is an implied assertion: the depressing state of things is a result of a bias against fat people-->obese cannot ever hope to be healthy--->medical people will not push for things that help their obese patients get more healthy. Moreover, they won't ask obese people what kinds of "healthy choices" they are making. They apparently aren't making any. Changing that would be revolutionary even if no one lost a pound. It's always better to eat veggies than cake. Being treated well and with understanding means that people make better choices such as eating veggies instead of cake. I don't see how that's inflammatory or not a positive good in some way, pounds lost or not. 

Effective at reducing obesity or not, treating people like people is effective for increasing health, according to this article (time spent talking with them and helping them make better choices).

 

[unsinkable]

Inflammatory Title Changed

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What They B!tched About Next Will Shock You!

[Dmmetler]

2 hours ago, kbutton said:

Additionally, does anyone realize how out of control the "lose weight" message has become from insurance companies?

My son, who has spent more of his life falling off the BOTTOM of the weight chart while hitting up to 99th percentile for height gets mailings suggesting that he needs to lose weight and move more. Why does he get these thoughtless "encouragements?" He's on blood pressure meds for a genetic condition (one that can be fatal). Some idiot at the insurance company decided that when a kid is put on blood pressure meds, it should trip these mailings. 

Even the pharmacy gets this wrong, but they don't assume he's fat. They assume my 10 year old is geriatric and needs specialty caps on the bottles for his meds. All of his other meds come with the regular caps!!! 

I started getting mailings from Medicare supplement insurance and AARP when I went on blood pressure meds for migraines. I couldn’t legally drink, but I had an AARP membership card with my name on it.

[Dmmetler]

24 minutes ago, kbutton said:

I think one takeaway from the depressing lack of effective information is an implied assertion: the depressing state of things is a result of a bias against fat people-->obese cannot ever hope to be healthy--->medical people will not push for things that help their obese patients get more healthy. Moreover, they won't ask obese people what kinds of "healthy choices" they are making. They apparently aren't making any. Changing that would be revolutionary even if no one lost a pound. It's always better to eat veggies than cake. Being treated well and with understanding means that people make better choices such as eating veggies instead of cake. I don't see how that's inflammatory or not a positive good in some way, pounds lost or not. 

Effective at reducing obesity or not, treating people like people is effective for increasing health, according to this article (time spent talking with them and helping them make better choices).

 

I’ve lost almost 40 lbs since going on meds for thyroid disease and working to control my blood sugar. I was feeling really good going into my endocrinologist appointment, especially when I was below 140 lbs on their scales. And, of course, practically the first thing the endocrinologist suggested was that I lose more weight. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

25 minutes ago, kbutton said:

I think one takeaway from the depressing lack of effective information is an implied assertion: the depressing state of things is a result of a bias against fat people-->obese cannot ever hope to be healthy--->medical people will not push for things that help their obese patients get more healthy. Moreover, they won't ask obese people what kinds of "healthy choices" they are making. They apparently aren't making any. Changing that would be revolutionary even if no one lost a pound. It's always better to eat veggies than cake. Being treated well and with understanding means that people make better choices such as eating veggies instead of cake. I don't see how that's inflammatory or not a positive good in some way, pounds lost or not. 

Effective at reducing obesity or not, treating people like people is effective for increasing health, according to this article (time spent talking with them and helping them make better choices).

 

I agree with you with one caveat. I did not become obese from eating cake. (Or other sweets). I wish that I could lose weight from cutting out the sugary (or even diet) soda. But I don’t drink soda. I wish that I could lose weight from cutting out the juices. Oh wait, don’t drink juice. Same for cake and cookies and pie and candy...  (I do eat the occasional sweet thing if it is gluten free at special occasions). I realize that might not be true for everyone. But there is a common misconception that all obese people are stuffing their face full of sweets and it really isn’t true. 

(And I got sucked into the thread again...)

[Jean in Newcastle]

2 minutes ago, Arctic Mama said:

PREACH.  And then when I produce a food log showing that I consume none of those things and they basically accuse me of lying...

Yes. I have flat out been accused of lying. And I wasn’t. Don’t they realize that I am asking them for help for a reason and that I am smart enough to realize that they can only help me with precisely accurate logs?  

[gardenmom5]

3 hours ago, Arctic Mama said:

Yes.  This is truth.  And unfortunately I sat at a bariatric clinic yesterday morning and got still more of it, when they freaked about another doctor having me eat coconut oil instead of margarine or cooking spray, and that my carbs were too low and would harm my body despite my eating things like carrots, brussel sprouts and guac.  Like, if a bariatric Doctor still believes saturated fat harms the body and doesn’t understand basic nutrition relating to lipids and cholesterol there is zero hope.

 

I will say it has been my experience that habits and diets do work to some extent, but they’re not independent of the underlying biology.  Short of fixing that, it’s a hard thing.  The stigma helps no one but the doctors feel superior.  

so they like fake food . . . the chemical make-up of which has been altered. . . .

 

dd did chemical alteration of enzymes in school... . so the body wouldn't recognize what it was. (and it could attack cancer cells.)

I hate fake food.

[Terabith]

I think the reason that it is a depressing article is because we live in a society in which fat is equated with bad/ shameful.  And the science is that it is essentially impossible to lose weight and keep it off for more than two years.  So we hear that, scientifically, there's really nothing we can do to lose weight, and it sounds like bad news and that it's depressing.

But....for me, the key things that it says that matters are:  1)  Despite a society that shames obesity, both inherently and officially, through doctor policies and what not, weight is really not the ultimate barometer of health.  Healthy habits, in the form of good nutrition, exercise, and other things like that matter far more.   So, we can pursue things like exercise and healthy eating not because they will lead to weight loss (because frankly, they probably won't in the long term), but because those things are good for us, no matter how much we weigh.  And 2) The other aspect that matters is social-emotional.  The only intervention that really led to a decrease in mortality was counseling.  Relationship matter.  Assertiveness and being comfortable in our skin, regardless of our weight, matters.  

I will probably never be skinny again.  It's just not a realistic goal.  But health is.  And I don't deserve to be abused for my weight.  I deserve to stand up and ask for what I need, whether it's a table rather than a booth (something I never considered until we had a roommate who is far more obese than me).  Social connections and relationships matter.  Exercise matters.  

 

[DesertBlossom]

I'd like to see a movement towards teaching actual nutrition. I don't particularly trust the government or doctors or schools to do it. I don't have any ideas about that though. Except that maybe it needs to start at home, eating meals together as a family, trying out real recipes.  But we (in general) have such an unhealthy relationship with food (particularly processed food) and I think people are often looking for that "magic pill." I would love to see a return to gardening even very small scale, container gardens. 

I can't help but want to blame the government and food industry for pushing fake science to support data that sells their products. How much damage has been done by pushing low fat, high grain diets throughout the years? 

I think I would like to get some kind of degree or training in nutrition. I find the whole subject interesting, not even for weight loss sake, but for overall health. The more I learn the more I realize a lot of health issues can be healed with real food. Our bodies can heal a lot of things if we give them the proper nutrients. 

Years ago I took a child of mine in to a pediatric GI for chronic constipation. It was bad. Really bad. And yet the only ideas the dr had was a daily dose of miralax and "more fruit." Her recommendations were actually causing more problems so I turned to google, took him off miralax and found solutions that were much more helpful. I seriously have no use for doctors when it comes to getting nutrition advice.

 

[Violet Crown]

2 hours ago, extendedforecast said:

I read this last night. What a depressing article! 

“As early as 1969, research showed that losing just 3 percent of your body weight resulted in a 17 percent slowdown in your metabolism—a body-wide starvation response that blasts you with hunger hormones and drops your internal temperature until you rise back to your highest weight. Keeping weight off means fighting your body’s energy-regulation system and battling hunger all day, every day, for the rest of your life.”

For me that would be a little more than four pounds. My goal is to lose 10-15 pounds. So if I hit that goal of ten pounds weight loss, I’m going to struggle the rest of my life to keep it off? That sucks. And in thinking back, I previously lost about five to seven pounds only to gain it back and then some during a very stressful year.

And no one knows what the right answer is. It’s truly depressing, especially the way obese people are treated by the medical community. 

 

At the risk of us being off-topic for this thread, as we're talking here about smaller amounts of weight loss ... I simply don't believe the "starvation mode with any amount of weight loss!" and "you'll be miserable the rest of your life!" claims: at least not for everybody, and certainly not for everybody losing smaller amounts of weight. When I decided my weight had crept up too far, I spent one year losing about thirty pounds, using the classic "Eat less, Exercise More, Cut way back on sugar and starchy foods" approach. I lost about half a pound a week, got down to middle of the healthy BMI range (5'2", 118 lbs.) and haven't regained it after two years. I'm not starving, I'm not hungry, I'm not miserable, really I feel awfully good, and it wasn't/isn't that hard. 

YMMV and all that. This is meant to be encouraging; if it's not, please disregard.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Violet Crown

[BeachGal]

The gut no doubt plays a huge role in our weight. A recent study showed that giving prebiotics to overweight and obese children helped prevent further excessive weight gain over a four-month period and the results were quite good. Prebiotics feed the beneficial bacteria and help them flourish. This may be one way to help becasue it's relatively easy to take a daily spoonful of oligofructose-enriched inulin mixed in with water (what the study used).

The circadian rhythms of digestion/metabolism play an important role in health, including weight. The period of time you spend eating and the time eating begins both affect how your body metabolizes food. The time period should be about 9 hours long to maybe 12. The clock starts when the liver receives signals that something needs to be metabolized and this can include even black coffee. Our bodies are more insulin sensitive earlier than later in the day, so eating earlier would be better. At the very least, stopping eating around 5-7 pm would be best. Eating later causes our bodies to produce more C-reactive protein which leads to inflammation. This begins around 5:00 pm. If you want to learn more about this, it's Satchin Panda's work at the Panda Lab (?) at the Salk Institute, and it's his work on time-restricted eating (TRE) which is not the same as intermittent fasting, btw.

If you're interested, you can sign up as a research participant to learn more about your circadian rhythms. It's all free, I believe. https://mycircadianclock.org

Another problem is the chemical stew that we're all exposed to. Bisphenol A was recently studied and shown to make people more insulin resistant. It can be sweated out through sauna and hot baths, though. Other chemicals by themselves or synergistically with others may be wreaking havoc as well.

I do think a lot more medical personnel are trying to learn more about the causes of excess weight gain which is a step in the right direction.

[gardenmom5]

when dudeling was six - I had to put him in pants that were a size too small (with the elastic waist band made smaller) to get them small enough for his waist. so, they were always too short. . . .

his ped (who was fired that year) . ..told me his BMI was too high for his age.

[mamaraby]

1 hour ago, Violet Crown said:

 

At the risk of us being off-topic for this thread, as we're talking here about smaller amounts of weight loss ... I simply don't believe the "starvation mode with any amount of weight loss!" and "you'll be miserable the rest of your life!" claims: at least not for everybody, and certainly not for everybody losing smaller amounts of weight. When I decided my weight had crept up too far, I spent one year losing about thirty pounds, using the classic "Eat less, Exercise More, Cut way back on sugar and starchy foods" approach. I lost about half a pound a week, got down to middle of the healthy BMI range (5'2", 118 lbs.) and haven't regained it after two years. I'm not starving, I'm not hungry, I'm not miserable, really I feel awfully good, and it wasn't/isn't that hard. 

YMMV and all that. This is meant to be encouraging; if it's not, please disregard.

I did roughly the same thing to lose over 100lbs. I would have said that my diet wasn’t so bad before and it wasn’t quality-wise. I didn’t eat a bunch of junk food and soda and sugar laden foods. I just ate too much quantity-wise which I recognize now because I eat way less than I used to. Like it’s just not possible to eat the amounts I used to and dh and I have become “people who split things” when before we each would order our own thing. I have lost less weight now in year...four or five (?) than I did in previous years, but I also have other goals (fitness related) that are incompatible with strictly losing weight. Which is anecdotal as all get out, but it’s still my true, lived in experience.

Having tried to do this multiple ways, I am keenly aware of the “being miserable, this is so hard” experience, but I also wasn’t successful any of those time either. Temporarily, but never long term and never to this degree. So my take away is there is, quite frankly no “one way” and I’m not surprised the article had no solutions to offer because the framing of the article assumes there’s one way.

And yeah, doctors need to treat overweight and obese people better. They just do. They tend to fall into the “one way” trap and make all sorts of moral judgements about character that are just plain stupid. And the diet industry could end tomorrow and I’d be just fine with that. I actually think it’s not so much that we know nothing about it, but that what we do know is deliberately muddied by people who have financial incentive to do so. I’m looking at you, whatever the newest diet craze is.

[wintermom]

7 hours ago, umsami said:

?????

It's the title of the article.  Not my doing.  As somebody who has been obese and morbidly obese my entire life, gone through multiple bariatric procedures, and a heck of a lot of discrimination, no...I am not trolling.  I have been tracking obesity research for over 30 years, and am extremely well versed on the reality.  Unfortunately, in spite of what has been known for years, the vast majority of people still resort to prejudices.   I am trying to awaken people to the fact that a lot of things they think they know about obese folks is frankly 100% wrong.  Does it mean you personally? Of course not.   Does it mean a vast majority of physicians and the lay-public? Absolutely.  

 

Yes, it's in your power to be attention seeking by not putting quotation marks in the title of your thread, and thus making it appear to be your own statement. 

Were you born an obese baby? When and why did you start gaining extra weight? 

Edited September 20, 2018 by wintermom

[wintermom]

2 minutes ago, happysmileylady said:

I am reading your posts to be pretty adversarial.  I thought that once I clicked on the title of the article, it was rather obvious that the title came from the article and not the OP.  

The OP has since changed the title of the thread.

[Kassia]

6 minutes ago, wintermom said:

 

Were you born an obese baby? When and why did you start gaining extra weight? 

 

I was a huge baby - so big that my mother had to special order diapers for me.  I was hungry all the time - apparently, the doctor put me on rice cereal at 3 weeks old because I would just scream for more food after I sucked down a bottle.  I have struggled with my weight and eating disorders for my entire life.  I have no memory of a time when my body size and food intake was not an issue - either too much or too little.  

[Violet Crown]

1 hour ago, mamaraby said:

I did roughly the same thing to lose over 100lbs. I would have said that my diet wasn’t so bad before and it wasn’t quality-wise. I didn’t eat a bunch of junk food and soda and sugar laden foods. I just ate too much quantity-wise which I recognize now because I eat way less than I used to. Like it’s just not possible to eat the amounts I used to and dh and I have become “people who split things” when before we each would order our own thing. I have lost less weight now in year...four or five (?) than I did in previous years, but I also have other goals (fitness related) that are incompatible with strictly losing weight. Which is anecdotal as all get out, but it’s still my true, lived in experience.

 

Yes I found this to be true also; I can eat at most half a "serving" of food (which really makes sense as I'm about half the size of most adult men), and eating more makes me feel uncomfortable, so I don't. Similarly I feel terrible if I go more than a day without real exercise; and very sugary food now makes me feel sick. I admit to being initially scared by the thought that I'd have to keep up these habits the rest of my life, but my body and tastes adjusted over time.

Three cheers btw for your accomplishments!

[Lady Florida.]

1 hour ago, wintermom said:

Yes, it's in your power to be attention seeking by not putting quotation marks in the title of your thread, and thus making it appear to be your own statement. 

 

 

1 hour ago, happysmileylady said:

I am reading your posts to be pretty adversarial.  I thought that once I clicked on the title of the article, it was rather obvious that the title came from the article and not the OP.  

 

1 hour ago, wintermom said:

The OP has since changed the title of the thread.

 

1 hour ago, happysmileylady said:

  Your second post still reads as rather adversarial.

I agree with happysmileylady. Yes, OP changed the title but both of your posts seemed as if they were accusing her of ill intent. They seemed uncalled for and added nothing to the conversation. Those of us who have "known" umsami here for years know that she is neither attention seeking nor trollish. 

Edited September 20, 2018 by Lady Florida.

[kbutton]

5 hours ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

I agree with you with one caveat. I did not become obese from eating cake. (Or other sweets). I wish that I could lose weight from cutting out the sugary (or even diet) soda. But I don’t drink soda. I wish that I could lose weight from cutting out the juices. Oh wait, don’t drink juice. Same for cake and cookies and pie and candy...  (I do eat the occasional sweet thing if it is gluten free at special occasions). I realize that might not be true for everyone. But there is a common misconception that all obese people are stuffing their face full of sweets and it really isn’t true. 

(And I got sucked into the thread again...)

I agree. I didn't mean to imply that obese people are always obese from eating wrong things or even overeating. I am trying to contrast that good choices are good choices even if the scale doesn't register a difference between eating cake and eating veggies. The article mentions that one thing people do when they feel defeated is to binge eat/eat unhealthy stuff. I know that is something I fight doing when I get negative feedback from someone "official" (medical person) or, say, shop for clothes. It just sometimes feels like good choices truly don't matter, and it's good to be reminded that they do, regardless of the scale. 

[umsami]

2 hours ago, wintermom said:

Yes, it's in your power to be attention seeking by not putting quotation marks in the title of your thread, and thus making it appear to be your own statement. 

Were you born an obese baby? When and why did you start gaining extra weight? 

I was born six weeks premature in the late 60s.  I weighed under four pounds and was not expected to survive.  I did (obviously).   For comparison, my child with a weight issue was born full-term, vaginal birth, 8 lbs some random number of ounces.  He nursed for a full two years.  He has always been the healthier eater of all of his siblings.... chose milk/water to drink, hated soda, always ate plenty of fruits and veggies, etc.  However, we knew even when he was nursing that there was an issue, as he would nurse to the point of vomiting.  His weight went up quite quickly.  Once he started on solid foods, he would eat until vomiting too.  So there's a satiety issue there, but what it is, nobody knows as of yet.  (Not Praeder-Willi)

I can't tell you the exact moment, but it was early elementary school to the best of my knowledge.  Why?  Wonderful question.  I'm sure, like many morbidly obese women, the childhood sexual abuse by my uncle that started when I was three or so played a part.   It was noticed the number of morbidly obese women who had "adverse childhood events" that started that whole research/correlation.   Nobody else in my family (adopted) was obese.  AFAIK, my biological family is of normal weight as well.  My mother was a professional ballerina.  My father had lifted weights for over 65 years when he died.  I remember being on Weight Watchers as 10.  I believe that was the first commercial/structured diet plan, but who knows.  There were millions after, a stint at the Pritikin Lonegevity Center, a stint at an ultra low fat vegan spa in Utah, Green Mountain at Fox Run, various meds, psychiatrists, psychotherapist, doctor supervised protein-sparing modified fast, etc.   I can tell you that the first time I felt actually full was after my first bariatric surgery.  Was part of the American Gut project...and yes, my gut microbiome is abnormal.   

2 hours ago, wintermom said:

The OP has since changed the title of the thread.

Yes, instead of it just saying the actual title of the article, "Everything You Know About Obesity is Wrong" (which is obvious if one actually clicks on the link or looks at it that it's the title of the article)....I added "Article, entitled...".  

[MeghanL]

2 hours ago, wintermom said:

Yes, it's in your power to be attention seeking by not putting quotation marks in the title of your thread, and thus making it appear to be your own statement. 

Were you born an obese baby? When and why did you start gaining extra weight? 

 

Sharing an article isn't "attention seeking". As for the questions, what the actual????

[TravelingChris]

Dh often comments on why am I so food oriented?  (Not commenting on how much I weigh. just on my liking good food, tasty food, etc--- I do not overeat, in fact, I often leave food on plates at restaurant, dinner, etc).  And I answer that there are a few reasons- one is that I am a SuperTaster.   Second, is that I was starving right after birth (due to doctor's error of not checking my mouth after I was born and me not being able to suck).  Thirdly, both of my parents endured near starvation in WWII  Soviet Gulags and a long-term study of children born to survivors of the starvation in the Netherlands during WWII. found that it affected future generations so I assume that similar results would happen with children of starved people in other situations.  

I am not obese and was very thin until I got sick as an adult, had to go on multiple medications, and both due to medications and metabolism changes, I gained weight.  But as I said, I am thrilled to be overweight because it is a protective factor for health in many, many cases.