nm

[gardenmom5]

NM - apparently - I wasn't clear and people think I'm taking offense.

[Xahm]

Pertussis is a pretty big deal. I don't know that I'd require it for anyone seeing my baby, but I would encourage the vaccine for anyone who is going to be spending any significant time around young babies. And if I knew someone didn't have it, I wouldn't let them hold the baby if they had any kind of cough, even if they told me it was allergies or whatever.

[Pawz4me]

I wouldn't be paranoid about it by any stretch, but yeah . . .pertussis has been a problem here for awhile. My doctor used to not care one whit about the Tdap for adults. He said "If you step on a rusty nail or get bitten by a dog then come get one." But he totally changed on that a few years ago and started recommending all his patients stay UTD on it.

[athena1277]

I asked my parents and in-laws to see get it because they would be visiting for several days soon after baby was born.  I didn’t ask it of other visitors who were usually only at my house for a few minutes to bring food or something.  

[Jean in Newcastle]

Pertussis is a huge risk for babies. Just get the shot. This isn’t indicative of a helicopter mom but of one in touch with current public health issues. 

[lavender's green]

We (very nicely and respectfully) asked MIL if she'd consider getting a pertussis booster when she was going to stay with us to help with newborns and there were outbreaks of it at the same time. That was in line with what the pediatrician and midwives suggested. She got it, but we wouldn't have pushed for it. She was the only one in close contact with the babies, so we didn't ask anyone else. And I'm not a "keeper of the baby gates" kind of mom. Pertussis in a baby is just that bad.

[Ravin]

According to this, adults and older children having their pertussis shots does not prevent carrying and communicating pertussis to infants. I would gently tell her to chill out and stop being paranoid.

Quote

Prevention of Transmission: Indirect Protection (“Cocooning”)

At the time Tdap was first recommended, it was anticipated that this vaccine would prevent pertussis in adolescents and adults and thereby result in preventing transmission of B. pertussis to contacts (e.g., infants). Providing indirect protection through Tdap vaccination to adults was the premise for the “cocooning” strategy to prevent pertussis in young infants at highest risk for severe pertussis morbidity and mortality. A limited number of studies have evaluated the effectiveness of Tdap vaccination in preventing transmission of pertussis in young infants, but the evidence was inconclusive. Although one study found a modest decrease in the risk for pertussis in infants whose mothers received postpartum Tdap, another study found that mother’s postpartum vaccination and cocooning did not reduce pertussis in infants (153,154).

Studies in animal models have shown that acellular pertussis vaccines protect against disease but not against infection or transmission of B. pertussis or the closely related species, B. bronchiseptica (155–157). Although it is unclear if these animal models fully represent human disease, expert opinion is that persons vaccinated with acellular pertussis vaccines can become infected with and transmit B. pertussis (158,159). Persons up to date with pertussis vaccines are less likely to have severe disease compared with those not up to date (160). Although it is presumed that vaccinated persons with less severe disease would be less likely to transmit B. pertussis because of less frequent or severe coughing, more recent evidence suggests that vaccination with acellular pertussis vaccines does not prevent transmission and therefore does not afford indirect protection against pertussis (155–157).

source: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/rr/rr6702a1.htm?s_cid=rr6702a1_w

[Rachel]

“They” have been encouraging pertussis (whooping cough) boosters for those who will be spending a lot of time around babies for at least 6 years. In my state there has been a few pretty bad outbreaks and babies can’t be vaccinated for whooping cough until they are older. 

We did not require it for all visitors but we did make them wash their hands before holding our babies. We didn’t allow anyone with coughs or colds around our babies at all for awhile. (I had one baby during the h1n1 scare and another short term NICU baby).  We also encouraged the grandparents to get boosters though I don’t think they did. They weren’t ever really around our kids as babies much any way. 

[vonfirmath]

56 minutes ago, gardenmom5 said:

dd called me last night to say anyone who was planning on coming to see the baby needed to have the Tdap - as the cdc changed the requirements in 2012.   I thought it was funny in lieu of a thread on a different forum where a mom with a newborn with severe medical needs wasn't allowing anyone to visit - and the few who did she made them wash their hands - all of these so-called loved ones, were witching about how unreasonable she was .. (with her medically fragile baby).

 

I admit, I'm rather rolling my eyes - but I don't see it as a big deal.  - yes I will check - not sure if I've had one or not.  dudeling has - everyone else .. . at least in WA the state keeps a database so it's really easy to look up a person's shot record.  (good for people who are changing drs or clinics etc.)

 

My friends required everyone who saw their newest infant to be updated on this shot after the scare when the PREVIOUS infant ended up with whooping cough.

[Katy]

There are something approaching 20 babies per year that die from it.  https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/diseases/child/pertussis.html

If your dd knows someone who lost their baby, or the family pediatrician does, chances are she's not a panicked mom but someone who is well aware of the completely preventable cause of death.   We frequently have medically fragile kids in the house.  Despite a giant bottle of hand sanitizer we keep in the entry and the insistence sick family not visit, every single cold or stomach virus we've had in the past year came from extended family visits. Influenza A came from a respite foster child. By February I was avoiding anyone visiting at all because I couldn't handle anyone else getting sick again.

[SeaConquest]

19 minutes ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

Pertussis is a huge risk for babies. Just get the shot. This isn’t indicative of a helicopter mom but of one in touch with current public health issues. 

 

Yup. We did the same. Most babies die of pertussis transmitted by caregivers whose immunizations are not up to date. Imagine having that on your conscience.

[Lecka]

Okay, as to that study, I don’t read that and think it means it’s useless to get a shot.

I think it means you might still be able to be a transmitter.

But — come on, it’s spread by coughing, isn’t it?  So isn’t having the active disease with coughing more dangerous?  

It makes sense to me.

We lived in a state with an outbreak in which 8 babies died.

My oldest son was exposed to a known carrier and we got calls from a public health department and follow up with a public health nurse to make sure my son was not going to become sick. (Edit: he had had a shot the previous year, and the public health nurse told me they saw more with immunity not lasting in the 4th or 5th year, but though my son would be fine since he had been immunized the year before.)

I would not mess with this, it’s way too easy to get a shot.

Its really a minor thing to do and in a community where many choose not to immunize, I think it is even more important for other people to be more proactive.

Its one of those things, for non-infants and non-elderly, I don’t think it’s a serious disease.

But I and my kids are often around babies and elderly people, I think we can bother.  

Honestly I don’t get why it’s a big deal.  

Or, I do get it.

It really changed for me after the outbreak with 8 dead babies, though.  That is a very rough thing to have happen.  

[Kassia]

17 minutes ago, Lecka said:

Okay, as to that study, I don’t read that and think it means it’s useless to get a shot.

I think it means you might still be able to be a transmitter.

But — come on, it’s spread by coughing, isn’t it?  So isn’t having the active disease with coughing more dangerous?  

It makes sense to me.

We lived in a state with an outbreak in which 8 babies died.

My oldest son was exposed to a known carrier and we got calls from a public health department and follow up with a public health nurse to make sure my son was not going to become sick. (Edit: he had had a shot the previous year, and the public health nurse told me they saw more with immunity not lasting in the 4th or 5th year, but though my son would be fine since he had been immunized the year before.)

I would not mess with this, it’s way too easy to get a shot.

Its really a minor thing to do and in a community where many choose not to immunize, I think it is even more important for other people to be more proactive.

Its one of those things, for non-infants and non-elderly, I don’t think it’s a serious disease.

But I and my kids are often around babies and elderly people, I think we can bother.  

Honestly I don’t get why it’s a big deal.  

Or, I do get it.

It really changed for me after the outbreak with 8 dead babies, though.  That is a very rough thing to have happen.  

 

 

Two of my sons got pertussis as teens - this was back in 2009 I think and before it was offered as a booster.  It was definitely serious.  Not like an infant getting pertussis but there were times when they coughed so hard that I thought they were going to die or pass out and hit their heads.  It was one of the worst things we went through as a family and it lasted for months 24/7.  It was horrible hearing them struggle to breathe - I would go in another room and cry while DH would sit with them and wait out the coughing fit.  

[Ravin]

27 minutes ago, Lecka said:

Okay, as to that study, I don’t read that and think it means it’s useless to get a shot.

I think it means you might still be able to be a transmitter.

But — come on, it’s spread by coughing, isn’t it?  So isn’t having the active disease with coughing more dangerous?  

It makes sense to me.

We lived in a state with an outbreak in which 8 babies died.

My oldest son was exposed to a known carrier and we got calls from a public health department and follow up with a public health nurse to make sure my son was not going to become sick. (Edit: he had had a shot the previous year, and the public health nurse told me they saw more with immunity not lasting in the 4th or 5th year, but though my son would be fine since he had been immunized the year before.)

I would not mess with this, it’s way too easy to get a shot.

Its really a minor thing to do and in a community where many choose not to immunize, I think it is even more important for other people to be more proactive.

Its one of those things, for non-infants and non-elderly, I don’t think it’s a serious disease.

But I and my kids are often around babies and elderly people, I think we can bother.  

Honestly I don’t get why it’s a big deal.  

Or, I do get it.

It really changed for me after the outbreak with 8 dead babies, though.  That is a very rough thing to have happen.  

 

No, it doesn't mean it's useless to get a shot. The booster protects you, as an adult, from catching it and having the symptoms. It suggests that there is no evidence it is helpful in preventing you from carrying it and passing it to an infant.

 It is not rocket science that if someone is symptomatically sick, with anything, that they should stay away from the newborn. There are plenty of way more common viruses and such that are dangerous for a newborn and even a common cold is miserable on a brand new little baby immune system. 

I for one would not go get a shot just because a new mom is being paranoid. I got my TD booster in 2015. I'll get the next one--TDaP if that's what they say it should be--in 2025. I would encourage the mom to breastfeed and if she's worried, have people wash hands before holding the baby.

[retiredHSmom]

I do not have a stance on requiring visitors to get immunizations.

I know that I am going to be eaten alive for this and I debated not posting at all but someone needs to bring some serious reality to this discussion.

I am not saying that parents shouldn't require guest to be immunized, they can do whatever they want.

I am not saying that people shouldn't get the immunization. They should

I am not saying that watching your child suffer with pertussis isn't awful. It is.

I am simply saying that acting as if this is a common danger lurking in every corner is utterly ridiculous.  We, as humans, are very bad at assessing actual danger vs. perceived danger and the kinds of statements people are making upthread do not help this. Posters are discussing what a tremendous and real risk this is.

According to the CDC fewer than 20 people a year die from pertussis.  in 2016 there were 323.4 million people living in the US.  According to the CDC there were between 15,000 and 50,000 cases of pertussis. Going with the larger figure that means that .015% of the people in the US got pertussis and 99.985% didn't. Fewer than 20 died according to the CDC so .00000618% of US residents died from it and 99.99999382% didn't.

 

[retiredHSmom]

4 minutes ago, Ravin said:

 

No, it doesn't mean it's useless to get a shot. The booster protects you, as an adult, from catching it and having the symptoms. It suggests that there is no evidence it is helpful in preventing you from carrying it and passing it to an infant.

 It is not rocket science that if someone is symptomatically sick, with anything, that they should stay away from the newborn. There are plenty of way more common viruses and such that are dangerous for a newborn and even a common cold is miserable on a brand new little baby immune system. 

I for one would not go get a shot just because a new mom is being paranoid. I got my TD booster in 2015. I'll get the next one--TDaP if that's what they say it should be--in 2025. I would encourage the mom to breastfeed and if she's worried, have people wash hands before holding the baby.

Every word in this is full of common sense. Amen.

[Jean in Newcastle]

https://www.ispot.tv/ad/7ctF/glaxosmithkline-whooping-cough-vaccination

[Mergath]

3 hours ago, retiredHSmom said:

I do not have a stance on requiring visitors to get immunizations.

I know that I am going to be eaten alive for this and I debated not posting at all but someone needs to bring some serious reality to this discussion.

I am not saying that parents shouldn't require guest to be immunized, they can do whatever they want.

I am not saying that people shouldn't get the immunization. They should

I am not saying that watching your child suffer with pertussis isn't awful. It is.

I am simply saying that acting as if this is a common danger lurking in every corner is utterly ridiculous.  We, as humans, are very bad at assessing actual danger vs. perceived danger and the kinds of statements people are making upthread do not help this. Posters are discussing what a tremendous and real risk this is.

According to the CDC fewer than 20 people a year die from pertussis.  in 2016 there were 323.4 million people living in the US.  According to the CDC there were between 15,000 and 50,000 cases of pertussis. Going with the larger figure that means that .015% of the people in the US got pertussis and 99.985% didn't. Fewer than 20 died according to the CDC so .00000618% of US residents died from it and 99.99999382% didn't.

 

 

My older dd had pertussis as a toddler. It was terrifying. She coughed until she was blue and vomiting. So you'd better believe that my mom, who works in a hospital, made sure she and my stepdad were up to date on their tdap boosters before they met younger dd.

Most of us realize that the risk of our babies dying from pertussis is almost nonexistent. But just having it is horrible, and not something I'm taking risks over. 

[Supertechmom]

I wouldn't require people to have the vaccine but I absolutely did not and would not allow anyone with a cough of any sort  around my infants.   The vaccine provides such a short immunity and only 3 or 4 out of 10 have immunity at the 4 year mark according to the CDC.    It also will lessen symptoms and a lot of adults will have that nagging cough that has lasted for months  - light case of pertussis when tested.   So I kept people away if they had a cough.  I kept my babies out of church as well and any large groups or gathering places.   Pertussis isn't anything to mess with.  But hand washing and keeping people away who have a cough and keeping the baby out of public areas would go a long way t

 

[GinaPagnato]

You know what I think? I think visitors shouldn't handle newborn babies. Now, if you're grandma and there to help out with the baby, that's one thing. But if you're just visiting the happy family, keep your distance, darn it!

There are some cultures that don't allow others to visit newborns and/or don't allow the newborn out of the house for a full 40 days. A midwife/friend told me about that, though I can't verify it off the cuff. I think it's brilliant, personally, although I'm waaaay past having a newborn in the home. ?

[gardenmom5]

I think there is a misunderstanding.  I'm perfectly willing to get the shot - I'm not complaining. - which I believe I made clear, but apparently not.

I know there are areas where pertusis is a big deal.  those areas/communities tend to be localized.   she does work in a hospital - so she sees fallout.

I'm currently wondering if I'll even be healthy enough to go stay with her after the baby is born because of my health  (not contagious).    

[peachskittles]

1 hour ago, gardenmom5 said:

I think there is a misunderstanding.  I'm perfectly willing to get the shot - I'm not complaining. - which I believe I made clear, but apparently not.

I know there are areas where pertusis is a big deal.  those areas/communities tend to be localized.   she does work in a hospital - so she sees fallout.

I'm currently wondering if I'll even be healthy enough to go stay with her after the baby is born because of my health  (not contagious).    

 

I think I understand what you are saying here.  I have 2 children with autism, one with multiple allergies, another almost died as a baby, and my littlest has something wrong that the doctors aren't sure about yet (and may never be until he gets really sick).  My sister does not like her children around my children because they might "catch something".  Absolutely nothing that my children have is contagious.  It has created a lot of strain between us.  I would feel better if she was asking something reasonable, like they need this vaccine, but nope...All of the children's flaws can be "catchy".  I was there for one of my niece's births, and helped raise her for the first year.  Then my sister got all crazy, and I got to see my new niece once (she turned 2 last month).  I hope you get to spend some time with your grandbaby when s/he is born.

[Jean in Newcastle]

But so far, as for as your original post goes anyway, all she is asking for is one vaccine.  Unless there is something else that hasn't been stated, that isn't the same as banning anyone with any health conditions even if they are not contagious.  (Not trying to argue with you, OP, but trying to understand where you are coming from.) 

I got the TdaP for myself.  I came very close to being hospitalized a couple of years ago from Pertussis as an adult.  The main reason my doc kept me out of the hospital is because he was afraid that being in a hospital would actually expose me to more illness and would be more dangerous for me.  I already was immunocompromised and so what might be uncomfortable for most adults was magnified for me.  As it was, I did end up in the ER twice during that illness for breathing treatments because I could not breathe.  (That year and for a couple of years afterward, I masked myself during the winter because I couldn't handle being around everyone's germs.  I thought about getting a pin that said "It's not me, it's you" but didn't.  ?  )  Fortunately now between my vaccines and immunotherapy, I'm able to handle being around the world. 

[SKL]

I would rather limit who can be close to the baby and how early.  I don't see what the big rush is for everyone to get their mitts on new babies.

Call me old fashioned, but I don't feel comfortable telling other people what chemicals to put in their bodies.

I am old enough to remember when it wasn't nice to tell Granny not to smoke in your house.  So maybe it's generational.

Now if we're talking about a close relative who is going to help a lot with the baby, I might ask, if there had been a recent epidemic anywhere she had been.  Otherwise I'd just expect her to do the obvious - stay away if you're sick or have been exposed to someone with a potentially serious illness.  My answer might be different if I'd ever known anyone IRL who had a family member with whooping cough.  I don't think it has been a concern in my area for a long time.

That said, I would not be offended if someone wanted me to stay away until their kid was old enough to get vaccinated.  I stayed away from my sister's kid for 2 years because she had immunity issues related to prematurity.

 

[maize]

3 hours ago, Mergath said:

 

My older dd had pertussis as a toddler. It was terrifying. She coughed until she was blue and vomiting. So you'd better believe that my mom, who works in a hospital, made sure she and my stepdad were up to date on their tdap boosters before they met younger dd.

Most of us realize that the risk of our babies dying from pertussis is almost nonexistent. But just having it is horrible, and not something I'm taking risks over. 

 

Exactly.

Having recently been through a hospitalization for a baby with a severe respiratory infection, it is not just death that parents are concerned about. Illness can have a wide range of negative impacts. That Illness and hospitalization were extremely traumatic for my baby.

[Joules]

9 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

I think there is a misunderstanding.  I'm perfectly willing to get the shot - I'm not complaining. - which I believe I made clear, but apparently not.

I know there are areas where pertusis is a big deal.  those areas/communities tend to be localized.   she does work in a hospital - so she sees fallout.

I'm currently wondering if I'll even be healthy enough to go stay with her after the baby is born because of my health  (not contagious).    

This is probably the crux of it.  We could think of it another way...a medical professional knows the benefits of vaccinations and the risks of going without.  They know the value of herd immunity.  I'm sure she loves anyone who might be a visitor to her baby, so maybe subconsciously she is doing her tiny little part to increase vaccination and safety among her loved ones.

Really some of it is practical, too.  I know most babies survive pertussis. But raising a little one is tough and should be a joyful time, spending three months of that with the disease and the lingering cough is miserable...why not try to protect yourself and your little one.  (Of course, I've never been one to feel like others had a "right" to see my child, they can take it or leave it.)

[gardenmom5]

again - I. DO. NOT. THINK.  HER. ASKING. IS. A. BIG. DEAL!!!!!!   it doesn't bother me at all.  (and frankly - the assumption I do, is at best getting really tiresome.)

I find it amusing -   new mom's tend to be more paranoid and proactive, etc. she's being very proactive - but that's who she is.  

she's a pharmacist - she's dispenses the drugs going to the nicu and the ped floor.  she's caught errors made by drs and nurses who were dispensing drugs going to babies in the nicu. (one she caught two weeks after she started could have killed the premie or at the very least caused a medical crisis.)

I know there are areas with outbreaks of pertussis because too many people don't vaxx.   I haven't asked - but what I expect (don't know for sure)  is probably driving her asking is her hospital she works at has had cases of kids with pertussis.  or maybe the one where she plans on delivering and her ob mentioned something to her.

 

[StephanieZ]

On an important tangent . . .

I am pleasantly surprised to see near unanimity here regarding the advisability of getting vaccinated to reduce the risk of whooping cough. And pleasantly surprised to see near unanimity for this widespread vaccination push in large part inspired by approximately 20 infant deaths per year. 

What startles me is that there are about 4000+ deaths per year in the US due to cervical cancer, and yet there's often such angst over the HPV vaccine which will largely prevent cervical cancer. 

https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cervical-cancer/about/key-statistics.html

So, anyway, I just wanted to point out that the HPV vaccine saves lives. Lots of lives.

And your child's life is just important when she's a 35 year old mother of two who develops cancer due to not having been vaccinated decades prior (due to a choice made by YOU as her parent) . . . as it is when they are a tiny adorable baby who develops whooping cough due to not being vaccinated (due to being too young).

Either way, I think it's on us as parents to do all we reasonably can to protect our the health and life of our own kids as well as other innocents in the universe who come into contact with them.  

YAY for the miracle of vaccinations!

?

[Rachel]

10 hours ago, SKL said:

I would rather limit who can be close to the baby and how early.  I don't see what the big rush is for everyone to get their mitts on new babies.

Call me old fashioned, but I don't feel comfortable telling other people what chemicals to put in their bodies.

I am old enough to remember when it wasn't nice to tell Granny not to smoke in your house.  So maybe it's generational.

Now if we're talking about a close relative who is going to help a lot with the baby, I might ask, if there had been a recent epidemic anywhere she had been.  Otherwise I'd just expect her to do the obvious - stay away if you're sick or have been exposed to someone with a potentially serious illness.  My answer might be different if I'd ever known anyone IRL who had a family member with whooping cough.  I don't think it has been a concern in my area for a long time.

That said, I would not be offended if someone wanted me to stay away until their kid was old enough to get vaccinated.  I stayed away from my sister's kid for 2 years because she had immunity issues related to prematurity.

 

My husband’s grandparents purposely didn’t tell anyone that one had had the flu and the other had flu like symptoms when there were two newborns at a family gathering. They didn’t want to be told they couldn’t hold the babies! Fortunately the babies didn’t get sick and from then on they weren’t allowed around our babies until they had some vaccinations. 

[maize]

3 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

again - I. DO. NOT. THINK.  HER. ASKING. IS. A. BIG. DEAL!!!!!!   it doesn't bother me at all.  (and frankly - the assumption I do, is at best getting really tiresome.)

I find it amusing -   new mom's tend to be more paranoid and proactive, etc. she's being very proactive - but that's who she is.  

she's a pharmacist - she's dispenses the drugs going to the nicu and the ped floor.  she's caught errors made by drs and nurses who were dispensing drugs going to babies in the nicu. (one she caught two weeks after she started could have killed the premie or at the very least caused a medical crisis.)

I know there are areas with outbreaks of pertussis because too many people don't vaxx.   I haven't asked - but what I expect (don't know for sure)  is probably driving her asking is her hospital she works at has had cases of kids with pertussis.  or maybe the one where she plans on delivering and her ob mentioned something to her.

 

I didn't think you thought it was a big deal--I took your post as slightly indulgent amusement at new mom carefulness.

I hope your health is good enough (non contagious issues you alluded to) for a wonderful visit with your new grandchild.

[maize]

By the way, my midwife's office during my last pregnancy was plastered with posters about grandparents/others close to baby needing the pertussis vaccine. They even had one inside the bathroom door I got to stare at every time I had to pee in the cup--it was a grandma with a wolf head holding a baby and the caption "my, what a big cough you have, grandma".

Your daughter is probably being bombarded by messages to make sure everyone around the baby is vaccinated.

[Rachel]

2 hours ago, maize said:

By the way, my midwife's office during my last pregnancy was plastered with posters about grandparents/others close to baby needing the pertussis vaccine. They even had one inside the bathroom door I got to stare at every time I had to pee in the cup--it was a grandma with a wolf head holding a baby and the caption "my, what a big cough you have, grandma".

Your daughter is probably being bombarded by messages to make sure everyone around the baby is vaccinated.

And not just about pertussis. About every little thing! 

[Rachel]

2 hours ago, maize said:

I didn't think you thought it was a big deal--I took your post as slightly indulgent amusement at new mom carefulness.

I hope your health is good enough (non contagious issues you alluded to) for a wonderful visit with your new grandchild.

This is how I took your post as well.