Anybody posted about the 13 siblings found chained in California home?

[BlsdMama]

From the article:

“We’ve seen so many cases that for us, the Turpin case is not that abnormal,†Coleman said. “It fits this pattern we’ve been tracking for a long time.â€

 

To be sure, she said, the vast majority of home-schooled children have parents who create a warm environment at home and provide a fine education. She was happily home schooled, as were other staff members of her organization. The California case, she said, is “not the norm.â€

 

But, she said, the lack of regulation and enforcement by states allows home-schooling parents who abuse their children to hide them. While children who attend regular schools are abused too, research shows that home schoolers account for a disproportionate number of abused children.

 

 

A 2014 study by University of Wisconsin pediatrician Barbara Knox and colleagues found that in 38 cases of severe child abuse, 47 percent of parents had never enrolled their children in school or pulled their youngsters out when abuse was suspected and told authorities they were home schooling.

 

The National Center for Education Statistics reports that 3.3 percent of U.S. students, ages 5 to 17, or about 1.7 million, were home schooled in 2016."

 

The author of this article doesn't think that starving and chaining your kids to furniture is not that abnormal? What "pattern have they been tracking for a long time?"

 

The author's own cited statistics don't support her assertion that homeschoolers account for a disproportionate amount of abuse cases. The University of Wisconsin study found that the majority of the kids in the study they researched were NOT homeschooled. The majority of the kids were enrolled in traditional school yet were still abused. Regulations didn't help these kids, so why do some people think that more regulations will help prevent these abuses in the homeschooling community?

 

 

Exactly this.  

 

Look, we as a society need to recognize there are NOT just two labels under which education falls.  It is not "Schooling" and "Homeschooling."

 

There are those send their child to a B&M school.

There are those that homeschool.

Then there are those who do not do either of these.  It is THOSE families that we must be wary of.  The home educating family poses no threat to a child.

[gardenmom5]

From the article:

“We’ve seen so many cases that for us, the Turpin case is not that abnormal,†Coleman said. “It fits this pattern we’ve been tracking for a long time.â€

 

To be sure, she said, the vast majority of home-schooled children have parents who create a warm environment at home and provide a fine education. She was happily home schooled, as were other staff members of her organization. The California case, she said, is “not the norm.â€

 

But, she said, the lack of regulation and enforcement by states allows home-schooling parents who abuse their children to hide them. While children who attend regular schools are abused too, research shows that home schoolers account for a disproportionate number of abused children.

 

 

A 2014 study by University of Wisconsin pediatrician Barbara Knox and colleagues found that in 38 cases of severe child abuse, 47 percent of parents had never enrolled their children in school or pulled their youngsters out when abuse was suspected and told authorities they were home schooling.

 

The National Center for Education Statistics reports that 3.3 percent of U.S. students, ages 5 to 17, or about 1.7 million, were home schooled in 2016."

 

The author of this article doesn't think that starving and chaining your kids to furniture is not that abnormal? What "pattern have they been tracking for a long time?"

 

The author's own cited statistics don't support her assertion that homeschoolers account for a disproportionate amount of abuse cases. The University of Wisconsin study found that the majority of the kids in the study they researched were NOT homeschooled. The majority of the kids were enrolled in traditional school yet were still abused. Regulations didn't help these kids, so why do some people think that more regulations will help prevent these abuses in the homeschooling community

I agree she probably just worded it poorly - even on here where extreme cases have been published, it fits in with some of them in one way or another.

those extreme cases who aren't enrolled in PS - just claim they're homeschooled.   they probably don't even file the paperwork that is already required.    and  usually, those families will move/pull-out-of-school if someone gets close.  

this family had told a friend they were moving and said their "goodbyes".  so, they almost got away and on to the next location.

 

Elizabeth Smart commented on how difficult it is to break out of an abusive situation in which your perception of reality is being manipulated:

 

"Smart told ABC News that she would caution the public from immediately questioning why some of the siblings, especially the older ones, did not attempt to escape from the home earlier.

 

"That's an incredibly common question, that I actually get asked all the time," Smart said. "When you're in a situation where you're being highly manipulated, where you're being tortured ... it isn't just as easy as jumping in the car and driving away.

 

 

 

"Speaking as one who has been physically chained up, and as one who has also been held by chains of manipulations and threats, I will tell you ... the chains of manipulation and threats are so much stronger than actual physical chains," Smart said."

 

 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/elizabeth-smarts-message-siblings-held-captive-life-dark/story?id=52394296

 

(speaking of Elizabeth Smart, I have been so impressed by the way she has used her experience as a jumping off point to advocate for victims of abuse. She is one of my heroes.)

 

and this is coming from someone who was in a loving family until she was kidnapped at 14.

these kids grew up with the abuse!   they weren't allowed contact with neighbors - they didn't have little friends to play with.  not only were they manipulated and abused - they had NO CLUE that was **abnormal**!!!

 

As far as mandated reporters laying eyes on kids, could insurance companies require all kids to be seen by a doctor once a year for a 100% covered well-check? That would ensure kids of all ages and types of schooling are seen. Of course, it still wouldn't catch parents who fly completely under the radar, but it could help those who are clueless/struggling before the situation gets out of control.

 

Our insurance already requires each of the adults on the policy to go for an annual physical. If we choose not to do it, our monthly premium goes up $50 per person. Their reasoning is that it keeps costs down if medical conditions are caught early.

 

again - too many holes.

parents could hold it together.

drs are seeing them for one day.   they miss things, they see things that aren't there. . 

 

I had to leave my ped of 25 YEARS because he refused to believe there was anything "off" with dudeling.   he knew me, he knew how much older kids turned out, he'd seen him multiple times before.  I finally dropped him, found other providers who were willing to listen to my concerns - and he's made a lot of progress.

one visit a year isn't going to do squat - but it could do a heck of a lot of damage if you get a zealot.   the case of Justina pelletier - the father defied a gag order issued by the state of Massachusetts to speak out.  after he did, more cases started coming to light of states/hospitals/etc. taking children because they thought the parents weren't caring for their children.  these aren't abuse cases -they're medically vulnerable kids and "the state knows better." . . . no thanks.

[gardenmom5]

And it shows they KNEW BETTER.  This wasn't mental illness. It was cruelty.  They knew enough to shine them up, dress them up, make them smile, and take photos.  Ugh. Shudder.

 

 

and that they kept moving.   they were getting ready to move again - and had said "goodbye" to one of their friends.

 

 

I love that neighbors came out to watch the arrest and kids being carried off, but no one seemed to knows this family with the big van and kids they never see other than digging in the trash. <sarcasm> Glad they're not my neighbors.

 

 

neighbors can only do so much to be friendly.  if they say "hi" to members of the family - and the family *won't even look at them*, let alone respond  (because the kids were trained that way - the parent doesn't have to say anything in front of an outsider)  - what do you expect them to do?   are they supposed to call cps and say "my neighbor kids wont' say hello when I say hello to them."?

 

 

I am upset at the fact that neighbors and relatives and purchasers of their former homes are NOW coming out saying they thought something was off.....yet said nothing up until now.  Really?  You would dare be one to say, "I was right!  Something was wrong there!"

 

I know people jump on the homeschool part of this, but these people did not live in the boondocks (I expected that when I first heard the story).  Maybe we should pass laws requiring neighbors to be more engaged with each other.  (Sarcasm).

 

There is a fine line between nosing into other people's business and finding out whether kids are in actual peril.  Invest in finding out which it is.  BTDT.

 

 

mentally ill/drug addicts/etc. can live in places just as filthy, but not be overtly abusive. (dysfunctional, yes.)  the last house sold as a foreclosure.   most foreclosed homes are in poor condition - as it is a symptom of the dysfunction that leads to foreclosure.   that doens't mean they're abusive with more than a dozen kids.  it takes a certain mindset to automatically jump to that conclusion.

former owners will even deliberately trash a house after a foreclosure.   we had one locally that made the news because the former owner (who lost it to foreclosure) was a pro ball player - and the house was trashed.

 

 

people seem to think it's easy to notice abuse.   I can't tell you how many people I had tell me it was my fault dudeling has the issues he does.  no, he's an aspie with capd, odd, add, and ocd.  with what some people here are advocating - he would have been taken away by people who "knew better".  I can tell  you -from my view, some of the people who "knew better", and were happy to tell me what I should be doing - would have been a disaster for him if they'd had their way.

[Mrs. Y]

Oh, I know it is hard to spot true abuse taking place. It's the getting in after the fact by announcing you suspected a problem thing that I find disturbing. People talk too much (I am not referring to posters in this thread.)

Edited January 18, 2018 by Colleen OH

[Miss Peregrine]

My friend is working this case.  :sad:

[Guinevere]

My friend is working this case. :sad:

:( So hard.

[ktgrok]

 

 

people seem to think it's easy to notice abuse.   I can't tell you how many people I had tell me it was my fault dudeling has the issues he does.  no, he's an aspie with capd, odd, add, and ocd.  with what some people here are advocating - he would have been taken away by people who "knew better".  I can tell  you -from my view, some of the people who "knew better", and were happy to tell me what I should be doing - would have been a disaster for him if they'd had their way.

 

By whom? Who has said that? A yearly evaluation for homeschooling doesn't equal that. Neither do yearly physicals, which you said you did do. So what are you talking about?

[gardenmom5]

By whom? Who has said that? A yearly evaluation for homeschooling doesn't equal that. Neither do yearly physicals, which you said you did do. So what are you talking about?

 

 

if someone had called cps and reported his behavior claiming I wasn't adequately caring for him - they would have come.  the less judgemental, assumed I was just being more lenient with a youngest child. (he was a very difficult small child.) until I forced an eval at the child dev center (withOUT support from my ped),  his dr wrote him off as being an obstinate and non-cooperative kid, and I even had my long-term ped refuse to do a well-child check because he was uncooperative and I should make him cooperate.  (fine, you get the kid to stand on the scale . . . I'm waiting . . . . . . picking him up doesn't work.  eventually, I had to pick him up, with both of us on the scale - then deduct both of our weights from just mine.)   hey dufus - I deal with this every single day, all day long!  but yeah, tell us to come back another day when he's willing to cooperate! I fired him.

and the busybodies - which is one thing I'm also seeing advocated on this thread, we need to pay more attention to other people - were always happy to tell me what I was doing wrong.  never mind all of my other kids were older than their oldest.  it takes a lot of  judiciousness to be able to discern what is what - and I honestly don't' trust most people as everyone has their personal bias - especially professionals - to make those judgements. 

 

yearly physicals certainly don't protect families from anything.  

 

a yearly homeschool eval - for exposing abuse - wont' do anything.   people can hold it together one day.   kids in abusive situations are very well trained to not say anything.  those kids are rarely articulate - so even if they were to say something, they can get brushed off.  *even by mandatory reporters*.   because you're also assuming mandatory reports are on their toes away every minute of every single day they spend around someone else's child.   it's just no humanely possible.

 

mort commonly, absuers wont' register and the state wont' even know they're there.  the media will still report those cases as homeschoolers when they're exposed, because "they're not in a B&M school.", and the parents will claim they homeschool.

[Guinevere]

Gardenmom5, I completely agree with you. What we need is community, and support. Not random investigations and busy bodies.

[ktgrok]

if someone had called cps and reported his behavior claiming I wasn't adequately caring for him - they would have come.  the less judgemental, assumed I was just being more lenient with a youngest child. (he was a very difficult small child.) until I forced an eval at the child dev center (withOUT support from my ped),  his dr wrote him off as being an obstinate and non-cooperative kid, and I even had my long-term ped refuse to do a well-child check because he was uncooperative and I should make him cooperate.  (fine, you get the kid to stand on the scale . . . I'm waiting . . . . . . picking him up doesn't work.  eventually, I had to pick him up, with both of us on the scale - then deduct both of our weights from just mine.)   hey dufus - I deal with this every single day, all day long!  but yeah, tell us to come back another day when he's willing to cooperate! I fired him.

and the busybodies - which is one thing I'm also seeing advocated on this thread, we need to pay more attention to other people - were always happy to tell me what I was doing wrong.  never mind all of my other kids were older than their oldest.  it takes a lot of  judiciousness to be able to discern what is what - and I honestly don't' trust most people as everyone has their personal bias - especially professionals - to make those judgements. 

 

yearly physicals certainly don't protect families from anything.  

 

a yearly homeschool eval - for exposing abuse - wont' do anything.   people can hold it together one day.   kids in abusive situations are very well trained to not say anything.  those kids are rarely articulate - so even if they were to say something, they can get brushed off.  *even by mandatory reporters*.   because you're also assuming mandatory reports are on their toes away every minute of every single day they spend around someone else's child.   it's just no humanely possible.

 

mort commonly, absuers wont' register and the state wont' even know they're there.  the media will still report those cases as homeschoolers when they're exposed, because "they're not in a B&M school.", and the parents will claim they homeschool.

Ok, but I thought you were saying that having say, yearly physicals or evals will get your child taken away. But that's not what you meant? You meant someone calling CPS? Or? I'm not sure what thing in this thread you were referring to when you said that doing it would have meant your child got taken away. 

[gardenmom5]

Ok, but I thought you were saying that having say, yearly physicals or evals will get your child taken away. But that's not what you meant? You meant someone calling CPS? Or? I'm not sure what thing in this thread you were referring to when you said that doing it would have meant your child got taken away. 

 

not generally - but it can happen.  EVEN by professionals!

 

I'm acquainted with a woman whose son is biracial - who had to fight with a "mandatory reporter" at the school who accused her of physical child abuse after one meeting because her son had a mongoloid spot on his back.  it's a birthmark - common in poc.  I think the mr called cps too.  at least they were familiar with the birthmark.

 

Justina pelletier is just an extreme case, but hardly the only.  and it was ONE visit to the ER because she had the flu.  next thing they knew, the hospital wouldn't let them see their daughter, and were claiming they were enabling their daughter's psychological problems.  

 

some subcultures are more attuned to cps etc.   we had an inner section city family move onto our street.  dealing drugs, dv, cps, frequent police, people illegally living with them, all sorts of dysfunction.   my kids were playing down the street, so I yelled (so they'd hear me) for them to come home.  a woman who was living in that house, threatened to call cps on me for yelling for my kids to come home to dinner. - that "property is a cash cow" landlord - never took another section 8 renter after that family, when previously, those were the only one's who'd rent from him.  at least it meant he had to clean it up.

[gardenmom5]

I'd like to see some hard data on whether increasing oversight of homeschooling families results in less abuse of non-schooled children. We should be wanting some actual evidence that the loss of freedom results in greater safety for children, rather than assuming that will be the case.

 

My view, formed living in a moderate oversight state with biannual home visits, is that the greater the required compliance, the more people go 'underground.

 

 

people living at the extent of this family, or especially those who refuse to register their children's birth with the state - will be the first to go underground since they're nearly there already.

[ktgrok]

not generally - but it can happen.  EVEN by professionals!

 

I

 

Justina pelletier is just an extreme case, but hardly the only.  and it was ONE visit to the ER because she had the flu.  next thing they knew, the hospital wouldn't let them see their daughter, and were claiming they were enabling their daughter's psychological problems.  

 

 

But surely we don't advocate not taking an ill child to the ER, even though there have been extreme cases where it went bad. Same with annual physicals or homeschool evaluations. 

[Ausmumof3]

I'd like to see some hard data on whether increasing oversight of homeschooling families results in less abuse of non-schooled children. We should be wanting some actual evidence that the loss of freedom results in greater safety for children, rather than assuming that will be the case.

 

My view, formed living in a moderate oversight state with biannual home visits, is that the greater the required compliance, the more people go 'underground.

Hmm it would be interesting to see some research done. Only thing I could find suggested rates of abuse were lower in home and private school kids but it was pretty unscientific and vague.

[Arcadia]

I don't think this is something they normally check. They are subject to, but it doesn't mean it happens, especially if the private school doesn't submit records to the fire dept. How would the fire dept know a private school is at a home otherwise? CA's DoE would have to notify them.

California DoE would have the PSA directory but only private schools with 6 or more students are entitled to claim for extra services. I doubt the local fire marshals are interested in checking even though my local fire station staff are very friendly and would oblige and check if I had needed to file that paperwork.

 

I live in a condo and the annual fire inspection is very simple and just check that codes are followed. There just need to be someone around to unlock the residence and let the inspector in to check and sign off the form. The inspector would come in, make sure all exits are unobstructed, smoke alarms and carbon monoxide alarms are installed, the fire alarm system in the condo unit is not malfunctioning. We have neighbors with malfunctioning fire alarm system (alarm does not sound) in their units and those have follow up visits to ensure that corrective work was done and the alarm system is working as expected. My husband would work from home so that he can let the inspector in while we go to the library to avoid the noise. So the inspector rarely sees my kids and I despite fire safety inspection at least yearly since we moved in when kids were under 2.

[ktgrok]

From the article:

 

 

 

A 2014 study by University of Wisconsin pediatrician Barbara Knox and colleagues found that in 38 cases of severe child abuse, 47 percent of parents had never enrolled their children in school or pulled their youngsters out when abuse was suspected and told authorities they were home schooling.

 

The National Center for Education Statistics reports that 3.3 percent of U.S. students, ages 5 to 17, or about 1.7 million, were home schooled in 2016."

 

 

 

The author's own cited statistics don't support her assertion that homeschoolers account for a disproportionate amount of abuse cases.

 

This says that homeschool students are 3.3% of the population but 47% of the serious abuse cases looked at. I'd call that disproportionate. 

[lauraw4321]

The 17 year old had been working on a plan to escape for 2 years. Bravery indeed.

[Ausmumof3]

I've been silent on this thread and reading it with concern due to the judgment about the kids' sizes.

 

I have a child who will be turning 15 this year who weighs 80 pounds soaking wet and still hasn't hit puberty. He often passes for much younger than he actually is. Yet he is not deprived of food, abused, or otherwise mistreated. He has 24/7 access to good food, is regularly fed a nutritious breakfast, lunch, and dinner. He's just small. Always has been.

 

It frightens me to think that because of his size and the fact that we homeschool that I could automatically fall under suspicion.

 

This is (partly) why I make sure my kids get yearly medical, dental, and vision check ups. And why I force them to play outside and be seen by the community.

I have one as well who is small and light. Thing is I also have one that's average and one that is a little on the chubby side. It's different when an entire family is extremely small and thin.

[desertstrawberry5]

I just think if there were laws like a yearly face to face meeting of some kind, in a casual way, and these abusers were NOT following that, that would at least distinguish them from actual homeschoolers to the general public.

The general public and the press do not care to make this distinction. We have seen over and over the parent removes the child from school-or they just stop going- and the press dubs them homeschoolers, even though nothing of the kind is happening. No registration, no paperwork, just kid at home=homeschool. I have read stories where the neighbors just assumed the kids ere homeschooled because they weren't in school. 

 

To a lot of people, it seems that homeschooling=truancy. Do you not hear people talk all. the. time. about homeschoolers not teaching their kids anything? Even here, we have frequent threads about all the deadbeat homeschoolers and their neglected children. 

[Meriwether]

I've been silent on this thread and reading it with concern due to the judgment about the kids' sizes.

 

I have a child who will be turning 15 this year who weighs 80 pounds soaking wet and still hasn't hit puberty. He often passes for much younger than he actually is. Yet he is not deprived of food, abused, or otherwise mistreated. He has 24/7 access to good food, is regularly fed a nutritious breakfast, lunch, and dinner. He's just small. Always has been.

 

It frightens me to think that because of his size and the fact that we homeschool that I could automatically fall under suspicion.

 

This is (partly) why I make sure my kids get yearly medical, dental, and vision check ups. And why I force them to play outside and be seen by the community.

One of my kids doesn't even make it to the  1 %ile on the BMI chart. He "has a high risk of health issues" per BMI. Some possible causes of his BMI according to the calculator are: 

• Undernourishment
• Maldigestion
• Slimming caused by a disease

 He is healthy, though. And he eats well. And plenty. He doesn't eat significantly less than his sister who is one year older and almost twice his weight. He is a lot like my husband was at that age. The doctor isn't worried. Thankfully.

 

ETA: That doesn't mean I think this family was malnourished. But if I saw them and didn't know their ages, I'm not sure I would have realized that something was wrong.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Meriwether

[Ausmumof3]

these new details are even more horrifying. This had been going on for years and the parents obviously knew what they were doing was wrong.

[Ausmumof3]

The general public and the press do not care to make this distinction. We have seen over and over the parent removes the child from school-or they just stop going- and the press dubs them homeschoolers, even though nothing of the kind is happening. No registration, no paperwork, just kid at home=homeschool. I have read stories where the neighbors just assumed the kids ere homeschooled because they weren't in school.

 

To a lot of people, it seems that homeschooling=truancy. Do you not hear people talk all. the. time. about homeschoolers not teaching their kids anything? Even here, we have frequent threads about all the deadbeat homeschoolers and their neglected children.

I've always assumed the parents would claim to be homeschooling if anyone questioned them.

[lauraw4321]

More research needs to be done, but if the statistics shown before hold (a disproportionate showing of abuse in people who claim to be HS - I recognize that they are not actually HS) then anyone who seeks to HS should be subject to a higher level of scrutiny than those who send kids to public or private school. Period. Of course not all HS families abuse their kids. But it seems more likely that they would, or that those who are abusive will chose to use HS as a way to hide their crimes. Reasonable correlation. 

[gardenmom5]

Hmm it would be interesting to see some research done. Only thing I could find suggested rates of abuse were lower in home and private school kids but it was pretty unscientific and vague.

 

 

homeschoolers - who are homeschooling in good faith, and private school, I would imagine lower incidence of abuse, because they have a higher percentage who are really putting into their kids.

 

there are a lot of people who claim to be homeschooling, but are hiding under the radar of a public school system.  or they are antigovernment preppers (a former neighbor age of the daughter said they snuck into their house after they moved out.  lots of religious material talking about armageddon. )

 

I've always assumed the parents would claim to be homeschooling if anyone questioned them.

 

becasue HS is recognized, those who keep their kids out of school will claim HS when confronted.  doesn't mean they are . . .

 

abusers like this keep their kids out of school so no one will see them.

[Paige]

I haven’t seen it mentioned, but the mom was a teen when she left home to be with/marry this adult man and nobody stopped it. She may also have a combination of mental illness, abuse, and Stockholm syndrome. It’s very sad all around.

[Ausmumof3]

I haven’t seen it mentioned, but the mom was a teen when she left home to be with/marry this adult man and nobody stopped it. She may also have a combination of mental illness, abuse, and Stockholm syndrome. It’s very sad all around.

Not only that but I think someone commented that the sister had been abused by someone she trusted. It's possible that mum came from an abusive home environment.

 

I definitely would wonder if she was a victim in this as well as a perpetrator. She certainly doesn't look well or happy.

[Deee]

I live in a state with home visits and mandatory registration (New South Wales, Australia). We were registered homeschoolers from 2008- 2017. When DS turned 17 registration was no longer required. To register, parents must provide an education plan that meets the appropriate age and stage based outcomes for each child, show work samples from the previous year, show a timetable that meets minimum school hours, and have a home visit where the children talk with the inspector and the inspector can see that you have adequate space, light and resources to educate the children. We must also show that the children have a range of social experiences and a chance to interacte with other kids. Registration can be for 3,6 or 12 months initially, depending on how well prepared the parent it, or for up to two years for experienced homeschoolers. For while, experienced homeschoolers were able to register by sending all the stuff in, with no homevisit. I did it once for one child. It was a massive PITA. The home visit is much easier, despite the need to vacuum.

 

About 2/3 of homeschoolers in NSW are registered, the homeschooling community estimates. We use a wide variety of methods, from natural learning, to Steiner, Charlotte Mason, Classical and standard school at home. Many families use Christian materials. As long as they cover the outcomes, you can use whatever you like. The inspectors (called Authorised Persons, which I think is daft) are all experienced educators. Our first AP was a former high school principal who told me to calm down and put me in touch with a local natural learner and a lovely homeschool group that we are still members of. Our second AP was a former maths teacher who also inspected schools to determine that they met the curriculum requirements (she passed me on the same day that she failed a very expensive private school one year). Both were very pro-homeschooling, great mentors and were very keen to provide support. Our second AP was working with a refugee family who wanted to homeschool but was badly under resourced. She met with them monthly for a while to help them find their feet.

 

They’re aren’t any real financial incentives for this unless you receive a social security payment. Homeschooling is completely unfunded in Australia. Most of us register because we think homeschooling is a legitimate education model and we want some recognition for that. There is some feeling of validation that comes from it, too. I didn’t realise I needed that until I got it, but we were accidental homeschoolers at the beginning. You can apply for a year 10 completion certificate but it doesn’t count for much.

 

Yes prepping for a visit is a pain. But I would do all that planning anyway. Yes I did have to clean the house, but I would have done that anyway. The real oversight comes from an experienced, trained person sitting in your dining room, eyeballing your kids and having a low-pressure conversation with them. That family would not have passed. Any visitor to the home would have noticed that something was wrong. And so there is a layer of protection, not perfect, but there anyway. Could I use excessive physical punishment and not get caught? Yes. Could I emotionally abuse the kids? Yes. Could I get away with living in filth, systematically under feeding, not socialising and chaining the kids up? No. Our system also means there is a delineation between registered homeschoolers and those who are not. I know good homeschoolers who are not registered. I know some fairly ordinary ones who aren’t, too. They have a pile of reasons, including fear of oversight, anti govt sentiment or a wish to do their own thing. Some of them simply can’t be bothered planning 12 months in advance and some of their kids do fall behind. And yes, they do give us a bad name in a country where homeschoolers are still in an very minority and fight for recognition. So registration not only protects our kids, it also means I can point to it and say “we are legal and doing the right thing and someone always comes out to checkâ€. It actually protects me, and apart from an afternoon’s kerfuffle, costs me nothing.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Deee

[maize]

The children wrote journals. Many journals.

 

Those are going to be damning.

 

The mother was 16 when she married her significantly older husband. Makes me wonder if she might be viewed as the first victim--one who then went on to victimize many others.

 

I'm not usually a revenge person, but I admit that a part of me really wishes these "parents" could be made to live for a year at least the way they forced their kids to live.

[TravelingChris]

Here is the deal with annual physicals- and I think it was only Florida that had this requirement.  I do not remember if it was in the umbrella school portion or the test or portfolio portion since I did both depending on kid and age in my short 2.5 years there.  I can't remember if I got out of "physical" by saying I had a philosophical issue with it or wrote something about how many visits they each had to doctors or what exactly.  I did have an issue with annual exam- we were in the military medical system.  My two kids who were still homeschooled by then were seeing doctors a lot- both pediatricians and specialists.  My youngest had developed what we later found out when we ended up at Johns Hopkins- juvenile ideopathic osteoporosis and broke three bones while we were there and yes, we were seeing specialists but didn't hit a good one until we found an old doctor at Johns Hopkins who specialist in cases of osteoporis and osteopenia and Ehlers Danlos etc, etc.  Fortunately she developed it at 9 and could advocate her own position and the first weird break was at a VBS I wasn't at and another later break was at a winter camp retreat playing soccer and so on.  Nobody thought we were abusing her because we did take proper care of her and breaks weren't in weird places that abusers do but more normal regular breaks.  (But as an aside, some of the other genetic osteoporosis causes in children do often result in CPS calls).(( That specialist was actually fairly certain that I and my other daugher also had issues and that he had seen a few families that had similar issues but did not meet Ehlers-Danos criteria and he thought there was a yet undiscovered genetic cause for her osteoporosis, my and my other daughter;s osteopenia, and also loose joints).  That youngest also developed an anaphalactic reaction to wasps in Fl and then started going to an allergist weekly.  The other daughter had tachycardia issues, on medications, etc , etc, all of which necessitated so many visits to doctors, PT, shot clinics, OT, genetic specialist, MRi facilities, hospital because middle kid had surgery there, etc,etc. and I was supposed to add to that a idiotic annual physical that the military did not consider necessary and therefore wouldn't pay.  Absolutely not -totally unnecessary and pointless. I mean one of those school years, they very well may have had a physical- for sports or camp or maybe when they first arrived.  But in the military system, you weren't supposed to need one every year.

 

And I had no problems with testing issues.  I think in VA you may have had to test.  But at least there we could substitute ACT for test if they took it that year- youngest was in talent search so she was also taking it,  Some states have super strict test requirements like only these 4 tests and do not let you replace ACT or SAT or PSAT or anything like that.  That puts an extra testing burden on high school students and is totally stupid since if you can score well enough for colleges, you certainly are getting educated somehow.

Edited January 18, 2018 by transientChris

[TravelingChris]

The whole thing is really horrific and in many ways very different than a lot of the other cases.  Super sadistic behavior but of a kind I haven't seen in this particular way.  Just like the extreme religiousity is not usually found in people who keep going to Vegas and doing Elvis wedding re-enactments.  Definite horrible abuse and like so many suspected- one case of lewd behavior.  I don't know if that means the baby was the mom's. 

 

And yeah- tough for all the investigators too.

[Ausmumof3]

The children wrote journals. Many journals.

 

Those are going to be damning.

 

The mother was 16 when she married her significantly older husband. Makes me wonder if she might be viewed as the first victim--one who then went on to victimize many others.

 

I'm not usually a revenge person, but I admit that a part of me really wishes these "parents" could be made to live for a year at least the way they forced their kids to live.

It also indicates that the parents actually were homeschooling on some level because the kids are able to write. That doesn't happen without some education and exposure to literacy.

[gardenmom5]

But surely we don't advocate not taking an ill child to the ER, even though there have been extreme cases where it went bad. Same with annual physicals or homeschool evaluations. 

 

 

the point which I seem unable to explain to you  - and this is the last time I'm going to discuss this

is parents who are abusing their children avoid taking to anywhere they might be exposed.   they do skip going to the dr, even when the child is very sick.   they will be the one's who won't go to any sort of accountability meeting for homeschool.   they are the ones who don't let their kids have contact (or only very limited contact) with outsiders.

and the fact is - innocent parents get mistakenly identified as abusers.    homeschoolers who are teaching their children - but dont' keep good records, or don't trust government, won't have face to face meetings just to satisfy some regulation put in place to prove they aren't abusing their children.   and it only takes one mandatory reporter with an attitude . . . 

but I'm done.   we're going to have to agree to disagree.

[creekland]

In all honesty, if the children lived like that all of their lives, they may not have been aware that there was anything wrong.  I wouldn't be surprised if there are many people in different abusive situations where the perception of reality is distorted by personal experience. Just having grown up in a home with an alcoholic parent, I had to learn what a "normal" home is like and had to learn healthy problem solving behaviors, etc. as an adult. I imagine abuse survivors may have even more to learn and much more severe damage to attempt to undo. 

 

True.  It wasn't until I had a college Abnormal Psych class that I realized my dad wasn't normal.  Now I know just how abnormal he is.

 

From the article:

“We’ve seen so many cases that for us, the Turpin case is not that abnormal,†Coleman said. “It fits this pattern we’ve been tracking for a long time.â€

 

To be sure, she said, the vast majority of home-schooled children have parents who create a warm environment at home and provide a fine education. She was happily home schooled, as were other staff members of her organization. The California case, she said, is “not the norm.â€

 

But, she said, the lack of regulation and enforcement by states allows home-schooling parents who abuse their children to hide them. While children who attend regular schools are abused too, research shows that home schoolers account for a disproportionate number of abused children.

 

 

A 2014 study by University of Wisconsin pediatrician Barbara Knox and colleagues found that in 38 cases of severe child abuse, 47 percent of parents had never enrolled their children in school or pulled their youngsters out when abuse was suspected and told authorities they were home schooling.

 

The National Center for Education Statistics reports that 3.3 percent of U.S. students, ages 5 to 17, or about 1.7 million, were home schooled in 2016."

 

The author of this article doesn't think that starving and chaining your kids to furniture is not that abnormal? What "pattern have they been tracking for a long time?"

 

The author's own cited statistics don't support her assertion that homeschoolers account for a disproportionate amount of abuse cases. The University of Wisconsin study found that the majority of the kids in the study they researched were NOT homeschooled. The majority of the kids were enrolled in traditional school yet were still abused. Regulations didn't help these kids, so why do some people think that more regulations will help prevent these abuses in the homeschooling community?

 

As a PP mentioned, but is worth repeating as so many people read/understand stats incorrectly...

 

If 3.3% of students are homeschooled, there should only be 3.3% of kids in severe abuse cases that are homeschooled to be equal.  Since there are 47%, that's 14x what we should be seeing.  For every severe abuse case in school, there are 14 that are "homeschooled."  The authors stats definitely support what she is saying and then some.

 

Personally, I like PA's homeschooling regs.  Perhaps a thing or two could be modified and I'm sure some still slip through the cracks, but at least it makes those who want to hide in the cracks WORK to do so instead of being super easy.  And our laws certainly aren't difficult to conform to.  It's worth it if it can save a youngster - or 14.  What would have helped in this situation is our requirement to have medical and dental evaluations at certain grade levels.  Kids develop at different times and it's still normal - when it's kept track of.  ps  There are some exemptions shown at the bottom for those who might worry that's it's too invasive, but again, it would make those who want to be abusers rather than competent homeschooling parents WORK to slip into the cracks.  Most don't.  That's why they move - to look for easy.  What if "easy" were harder to find?

 

http://www.askpauline.com/hs/homeschoolmedical.html

Edited January 18, 2018 by creekland

[gardenmom5]

It also indicates that the parents actually were homeschooling on some level because the kids are able to write. That doesn't happen without some education and exposure to literacy.

 

the girl who played with three of the kids for a few months when they lived south of fort worth said there was a room that looked like it was set up to be a school room.  that was about 15 years ago.    she and her mother went in the house after the family moved out.

apparently, the 'friend's" mother asked one of the children her name - and they were never allowed out front again.  they were allowed to play in the back, and never with anyone else.

[HS Mom in NC]

So no one is addressing how to deal with people going under the radar.  That's the problem.  People who severely abuse will go wherever they can be under the radar.  How do we stop that?

[Ms.Ivy]

Some upthread referenced part of the fire codes that apply to some private schools. California codes make provision to exempt private home schools when the building in question is primarily a residence with just parents and their own children. There are several such laws that homeschools are exempt from, and that apply only to commercial private school buildings. It is a good idea to check stuff like this with an attorney rather than getting legal info from random news reporters.

[scholastica]

True.  It wasn't until I had a college Abnormal Psych class that I realized my dad wasn't normal.  Now I know just how abnormal he is.

 

 

As a PP mentioned, but is worth repeating as so many people read/understand stats correctly...

 

If 3.3% of students are homeschooled, there should only be 3.3% of kids in severe abuse cases that are homeschooled to be equal.  Since there are 47%, that's 14x what we should be seeing.  For every severe abuse case in school, there are 14 that are "homeschooled."  The authors stats definitely support what she is saying and then some.

 

Personally, I like PA's homeschooling regs.  Perhaps a thing or two could be modified and I'm sure some still slip through the cracks, but at least it makes those who want to hide in the cracks WORK to do so instead of being super easy.  And our laws certainly aren't difficult to conform to.  It's worth it if it can save a youngster - or 14.  What would have helped in this situation is our requirement to have medical and dental evaluations at certain grade levels.  Kids develop at different times and it's still normal - when it's kept track of.  ps  There are some exemptions shown at the bottom for those who might worry that's it's too invasive, but again, it would make those who want to be abusers rather than competent homeschooling parents WORK to slip into the cracks.  Most don't.  That's why they move - to look for easy.  What if "easy" were harder to find?

 

http://www.askpauline.com/hs/homeschoolmedical.html

 

Except the article says that the students were removed under the guise of homeschooling in quotes. It doesn't say that any of the abusers were following the regs set up by the state in which they resided. If the regs not being strict enough is the problem, then we would see these kind of numbers from people following the regs of their state and still not getting caught. I would like to know what the numbers are for people following their state regs. That would be a more indicative study about the need for stricter or more lenient regs in a particular place.

[creekland]

So no one is addressing how to deal with people going under the radar.  That's the problem.  People who severely abuse will go wherever they can be under the radar.  How do we stop that?

 

We put radar everywhere.  That's what most of us in favor of radar are suggesting.  Those on this board shouldn't have problems at all.  Even if they get reported, reporters will investigate and close the case noting all is well - unless - it isn't.

 

Except the article says that the students were removed under the guise of homeschooling in quotes. It doesn't say that any of the abusers were following the regs set up by the state in which they resided. If the regs not being strict enough is the problem, then we would see these kind of numbers from people following the regs of their state and still not getting caught. I would like to know what the numbers are for people following their state regs. That would be a more indicative study about the need for stricter or more lenient regs in a particular place.

 

I doubt one can get that sort of info unless the radar (regs) are set up everywhere.  Then those avoiding it can more easily be spotted.  It would raise a red flag to be extra cautious.

 

I don't think true homeschooling IS the problem.  I think it's folks using homeschooling as a way to dodge the radar, esp in places where it's easy to do so.

 

No system will be perfect, but some are better than others.  Speed limits don't stop speeding, but they make it tougher for the driver who always wants to go 100mph to keep getting away with it because at some point they get caught and enough will suspend their driver's license.  Drive without that and eventually one gets prison time.  Then too, if someone gets hurt, there will be more to charge them with.  Those who obey reasonable speed guidelines without signs won't have a problem just because limits are set.

[VaKim]

So no one is addressing how to deal with people going under the radar.  That's the problem.  People who severely abuse will go wherever they can be under the radar.  How do we stop that?

That's just the thing. We can't stop such things. Ever. Just like making drugs illegal didn't stop people from doing/making/selling drugs. Laws cannot stop sin. Nothing can completely stop it. Short of some kind of system that would be much more horrifying than the abuse itself already is. We can only do our best and realize that there is no true solution. There will always be crimes of every terrible kind. 

[creekland]

That's just the thing. We can't stop such things. Ever. Just like making drugs illegal didn't stop people from doing/making/selling drugs. Laws cannot stop sin. Nothing can completely stop it. Short of some kind of system that would be much more horrifying than the abuse itself already is. We can only do our best and realize that there is no true solution. There will always be crimes of every terrible kind. 

 

So this means you are in favor of giving up all laws - because none, absolutely none, stop ALL problems?  Companies can claim whatever they want to about their products because some ignore the law and make false claims and things like that?

[Rosie_0801]

We put radar everywhere.  That's what most of us in favor of radar are suggesting.  Those on this board shouldn't have problems at all.  Even if they get reported, reporters will investigate and close the case noting all is well - unless - it isn't.

 

 

Unless they don't. And even if they do those records can be used against you in other situations later on, and you can't defend yourself because a) they are the expert and b) they are confidential files you aren't allowed to read.

 

 

The system would work just fine if all members of it were honourable people, but there are a whole lot who aren't.

[VaKim]

So this means you are in favor of giving up all laws - because none, absolutely none, stop ALL problems?  Companies can claim whatever they want to about their products because some ignore the law and make false claims and things like that?

No, not at all. I started to edit to clarify, then figured nobody would pay attention to it anyway, lol. No, I am just stating the fact that no matter how many laws we make, enforcing them completely is just not humanly possible. Laws are good in that they keep honest men honest, as my daddy always said. But just realistically speaking, there will never be an end to these horrible things. There are already laws in place. 

[Twolittleboys]

That's just the thing. We can't stop such things. Ever. Just like making drugs illegal didn't stop people from doing/making/selling drugs. Laws cannot stop sin. Nothing can completely stop it. Short of some kind of system that would be much more horrifying than the abuse itself already is. We can only do our best and realize that there is no true solution. There will always be crimes of every terrible kind. 

 

 

So this means you are in favor of giving up all laws - because none, absolutely none, stop ALL problems?  Companies can claim whatever they want to about their products because some ignore the law and make false claims and things like that?

 

Well, I am kind of in between. I think there should be some regulations/controls and these will stop a certain amount of abuse. But to completely eradicate all abuse you would have to have so many controls that it would seriously impact freedom. Obviously, there will be different ideas about the right amount of controls. But either extreme seems to me less than optimal.

[eternalsummer]

No, you mean totalitarianism and anarchism are not the best ways to run a society?  knock me over with a feather

[LMD]

We put radar everywhere. That's what most of us in favor of radar are suggesting. Those on this board shouldn't have problems at all. Even if they get reported, reporters will investigate and close the case noting all is well - unless - it isn't.

 

 

I doubt one can get that sort of info unless the radar (regs) are set up everywhere. Then those avoiding it can more easily be spotted. It would raise a red flag to be extra cautious.

 

I don't think true homeschooling IS the problem. I think it's folks using homeschooling as a way to dodge the radar, esp in places where it's easy to do so.

 

No system will be perfect, but some are better than others. Speed limits don't stop speeding, but they make it tougher for the driver who always wants to go 100mph to keep getting away with it because at some point they get caught and enough will suspend their driver's license. Drive without that and eventually one gets prison time. Then too, if someone gets hurt, there will be more to charge them with. Those who obey reasonable speed guidelines without signs won't have a problem just because limits are set.

My bold. Wow, no, I don't agree with that. This assumes that an investigation is a neutral experience and that investigators are unbiased and benevolent. I don't tend to assume that humans with power are by nature benevolent...

[creekland]

No, not at all. I started to edit to clarify, then figured nobody would pay attention to it anyway, lol. No, I am just stating the fact that no matter how many laws we make, enforcing them completely is just not humanly possible. Laws are good in that they keep honest men honest, as my daddy always said. But just realistically speaking, there will never be an end to these horrible things. There are already laws in place. 

 

I think we all agree that there is nothing that will plug all cracks, but it also seems obvious that there are things that can (and should) be done to help protect more people.  We wouldn't have a safer environment here if we dropped all laws, so they are doing a decent amount of good.  I suppose that's just harder to see - the crimes that aren't committed due to laws or consequences from them.  That never makes the news.

[ktgrok]

and it only takes one mandatory reporter with an attitude . . . 

 

 

Yes, but that's true of many things. No one says, don't do annual physicals because you might get that one doctor that has an attitude and reports you for something bogus. Don't let your kid go to public school, because it only takes one teacher with an attitude to report you for something bogus. Don't go out in public ever because it only takes one person with an attitude to report you for something bogus. So if we don't say those things, why would we say, "don't have annual homeschool evaluations because it only takes one evaluator with an attitude to report you for something bogus"?

[eternalsummer]

Yeah, I'm not cool with "radar everywhere"; I doubt most Americans are, either. I don't want CCTV recording everyone's every move all the time, either, and while I don't particularly care whether the government reads my internet history or my nonexsitent cell phone records, I don't think I want them coming into my house once a year just to check to make sure I'm doing things "right."

 

I am fine with yearly or every other year educational testing, and I'm fine with keeping a log (although to be honest I do not keep a particularly accurate or regular one).  If I had a kid for whom the testing were stressful or difficult or an unreliable indicator of whether we were doing homeschool in an acceptable manner, though, I'd be pretty pissed about it and might consider moving to a lower-reg state, because I know I am not failing my kids and I don't need the government to worry about it for me.

[creekland]

My bold. Wow, no, I don't agree with that. This assumes that an investigation is a neutral experience and that investigators are unbiased and benevolent. I don't tend to assume that humans with power are by nature benevolent...

 

Well, there would definitely be appeals options, of course, but I've personally seen CPS (or equivalent) guess wrongly in favor of the parents too many times locally - then add those reported in this thread and making news, etc.  I haven't seen it happen the other way.  I'm sure it does.  Nothing is perfect.  But I don't think it's common.

[MooCow]

Unless they don't. And even if they do those records can be used against you in other situations later on, and you can't defend yourself because a) they are the expert and b) they are confidential files you aren't allowed to read.

 

 

The system would work just fine if all members of it were honourable people, but there are a whole lot who aren't.

 

Word.