Anybody posted about the 13 siblings found chained in California home?

[TravelingChris]

I saw it on the news this morning.  I thought the mother looked nuts.  As to the kids being pale- I would not have seen that alone as any kind of warning.  I have pale skin as does my dh and guess what- we had three pale looking kids.  They were also all thin.  We also homeschooled in CA.  Now, we were not closeted at all and everyone saw my kids.  We interacted with many, many people including our neighbors, our homeschool friends, our church family, our military friends and co-workers, etc.  

 

According to the Daily Mail- which actually has more info than some of the other reports I have seen- I know they can be sensationalistic and they do have a certain viewpoint but their photos and reporting is normally a lot better than American and reporting in general is usually a lot better with overseas papers. these people only moved to this house a few years ago. They moved to CA in 2010 and lived in Texas before.  Who knows how long some other neighbors lived there? I also think that most neighbors had no idea there were so many people in that house since they didn't see them all at once.  As to why the woman who saw them digging in the trash to get food didn't call, I think that expectations based on the kids being white and lving in a normal middle class neighborhood probably played a large role.  The neighbors shown were Hispanic and AA- maybe they also believed the false idea that only lower income or 'ghetto' kids are in danger.  It is hard to say.  But in that same neighborhood in CA where I lived, we had a mother who was acting very off.  She had smaller kids who weren't school age yet.  A number of neighbors were concerned and one man talked to the father.  The mom was taken to a facility and the girls were safe.  If I saw someone digging in the garbage for food, I would have inquired first with the neighbors but if I had seen that woman with her crazy eyes and Dad wasn't concerned, I would call.

 

I do not see where additional rules would have safeguarded this family,  They could still have done testing and reported that.  Most of the victims weren't even school aged.  I have seen cases of this kind of abuse many, many times over the years.  Lots of times, homeschooling wasn't even an issue.  I can\t even have the slightest idea how many times I have heard about horrendous abuse of b+m school goers who still didn't get quick authority awareness and help.  Or how many times women have lived lives of torture and people don't know and are surprised when the facts come out.  The family could have just as easily not turned in paperwork to the state.  They move and never enroll kids. How would authorities even know?  I hate it that there are such evil people around but I am not sure how minus making our society into some kind of Stasi place where everybody is spying on everyone and the government spying on all that we could even know such things.  As one neighbor said, she saw the adult kids driving around by themselves.  Why would you think anyone was being chained if you saw them leaving freely?  Obviously, as I previously stated with the abused women, abuse is not that simple but it is also very, very hard to discover at times.  Much easier to find clues after the fact with lots of differing accounts that make it seem suspicious.

[Laurie]

 

 

I'm with the poster on the Free Jinger board who wonders if horrific abuse neglect cases among "homeschooling" families are like cockroaches - nobody really knows they're there, but if you see one, there are a dozen more.

 

 

When I heard about this case, I immediately thought about Hana Williams' death here in WA state.    The parents in these cases have been right under our noses, and they seem to be educated people.   This Turpin guy has worked at Northrop Grumman as an engineer.  Hana Williams' father worked at Boeing.  And then I wondered about Andrea Yates' husband so I googled....he had been an engineer at NASA!   

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 16, 2018 by Laurie

[mathnerd]

Strange that their house looks to be very close to the neighbors' houses and nobody even figured out that there were a lot of kids inside.

[lauraw4321]

Just watched the new conference that the CA authorities gave. They said the mom was "surprised" they were there. I think she probably figured that if the kids got to go to Disneyland and Vegas, they were having a good life. And if they couldn't obey her to not eat, then she would help them by chaining them to the bed. And of course the house was messy and smelled bad at times - there were 15 people living there. And of course the kids were pale, they needed to stay inside to study. I fear how people can delude and justify themselves. 

[Pawz4me]

Just watched the new conference that the CA authorities gave. They said the mom was "surprised" they were there. I think she probably figured that if the kids got to go to Disneyland and Vegas, they were having a good life. And if they couldn't obey her to not eat, then she would help them by chaining them to the bed. And of course the house was messy and smelled bad at times - there were 15 people living there. And of course the kids were pale, they needed to stay inside to study. I fear how people can delude and justify themselves. 

 

 

The bolded is exactly why I get so uncomfortable when the occasional threads come up here about kids "stealing" food. The very idea was shocking to me the first time I read it. In my world it's not and has never been possible for a child to steal food from his own home. The food is there, it's for anyone who wants it. And yes, I know I come from a place of privilege to be able to say that. But it truly was a concept I was entirely unfamiliar with before coming to this board. And even though there have been quite a few of those threads since I joined they still make me very uncomfortable. And (apologies for even posting this) make me wonder . . .

[Lang Syne Boardie]

The bolded is exactly why I get so uncomfortable when the occasional threads come up here about kids "stealing" food. The very idea was shocking to me the first time I read it. In my world it's not and has never been possible for a child to steal food from his own home. The food is there, it's for anyone who wants it. And yes, I know I come from a place of privilege to be able to say that. But it truly was a concept I was entirely unfamiliar with before coming to this board. And even though there have been quite a few of those threads since I joined they still make me very uncomfortable. And (apologies for even posting this) make me wonder . . .

 

I agree.

 

I grew up in a home with some strict rules about not eating between meals, or not getting leftovers, because of poverty - there really was not enough food. Planning every meal was one of the required strategies if we were to keep going. And there was some weirdness about girls giving up food for boys, which I knew even at the time was wrong. :( But even in that level of dysfunction and lack, my parents wanted their children to have food, and did not call it "stealing" if we needed more to eat.

 

I absolutely HATE the food control threads here.

[mytwomonkeys]

Wow, this story is heartbreaking. Thank God the one teen was able to get away and call for help. So many things about this seem weird to me, but I see or read weird stuff with homeschooling families all of the time. Families dressing identical is weird but it wouldn’t put up a red flag for me (heck, in another thread here everyone is talking about school uniforms for school hours... That’s really strange to me). The trash digging though... that’s really hard to overlook! But everything else would be easy to assume all is well enough & the family just lives very different from my own.

Edited January 16, 2018 by mytwomonkeys

[school17777]

If I saw a neighbor digging through their own trash, I would assume they were looking for something that may have been thrown away. I wouldn’t assume they were digging for food in their own trash.

[fralala]

I have no idea what the neighborhood is like, but unfortunately (and not without reason), there are still groups in the U.S. that have strong mistrust for the police or aren't necessarily acculturated to the idea that the authorities will help.

 

(And what else but fear and mistrust could have kept the adult children who were abused from seeking help at some point prior? This, of course, without good reason, and with evil intention.)

 

It's a very sad case, and perhaps a reminder that the homeschool laws that deal solely with academic progress are leaving out one very important function of schools, which is to ensure that even abused children have habitual access to people (and ideas) unmediated by their abusers. Adults need those things, too, so that people notice if their mental health is declining. Mental health and happiness can be faked over Facebook (I mean, where some of you saw bad haircuts and weird matching outfits, I saw a type of style that isn't uncommon in a certain segment of the homeschool fringe).

Edited January 16, 2018 by fralala

[TravelingChris]

When I heard about this case, I immediately thought about Hana Williams' death here in WA state.    The parents in these cases have been right under our noses, and they seem to be educated people.   This Turpin guy has worked at Northrop Grumman as an engineer.  Hana Williams' father worked at Boeing.  And then I wondered about Andrea Yates' husband so I googled....he had been an engineer at NASA!   

 

Well I don't think this is anything specifically related to engineers or homeschooling as I said because I remember the case of that adopted girl in NYC whose dad was a lawyer and I am not sure but I think mom was a social worker ot child advocate of some kind or something like that and she died as a result of horrific abuse.  That was a long time ago, in the 80's I think and caused a lot of discussion about what safeguards were in place with adoptions.  And everytime there is one of the adoption horror cases, the same discussion takes place. I don't know- predictions are super complicated enough with weather and even much more complicated with humans.  

 

It is just really sad and infuriating at the same time.

 

[gardenmom5]

There are pictures from a year or two ago and there's no way I'd believe that many of those children were actually adults in their 20's. They all look very young and thin.

 

Something weird about the Elvis wedding renewal: There seems to be pictures showing two different wedding renewals in the same place with the children wearing the same clothing. The mom, however, is wearing a different dress and has a different hairstyle and a baby has been added to the family. One of the boys is much taller in one set of pictures too. I just can't figure it out. Very strange!

 

my understanding is they did THREE separate elvis vow renewals.   one is weird enough - but three?   makes me wonder how much that cost and why it was spent on their party and not food for the kids?

 

That level of crazy makes me fear the worst.  I wonder if the youngest child/ren will be DNA tested to see if the older daughters are the mother(s.) I heard about a case where the father turned out to be both the father and grandfather.

 

this was my thought too.   I know women who had babies in their late forties, it's not unheard of.  but with this level of abuse, it bears checking into.

 

If the mom is 49, there is a good chance the 2 year old is the child of one of the older daughters who was abused by her father. How sad for these adults who have never lived a normal life. How are they going to cope and survive? Who will take care of them? The younger siblings will go into foster care and hopefully land with a good family.

 

the adult kids I can see going into an adult group home.  they will probably need a lot of therapy to learn to be functional.  not to mention the therapy they will need to deal with their food issues.  

My fil was a pow - he was starved for 3 1/2 years.  when those troops were coming home - they would just keep eating and eating and eating.  even if they weren't hungry, because it is as much mental as physical.    at a banquet, one solider was shocked to turn and see other attendees had chicken bones on their plates at the end of the meal.  he'd eaten his.

 

and that's assuming there aren't mental deficits due to malnutrition and a growing brain.

 

"Others said they had seen the children digging for food in the garbage bins, but had not taken notice as it did not look sinister."

 

Really? Kids digging for food in garbage bins in a reasonably nice neighborhood didn't concern any of the neighbors? Wtf is wrong with people?

 

I've seen comments from people who live in that area who say it's really not that great of an area.  

 

I wouldn't call CPS, but I have and would call LEO for a welfare check. Now, the problem is, if someone opens the door and says all is fine, there's not enough probable cause for them to come in. But if the LEO sees something that does warrant probable cause, or if the homeowner consents to them entering, things can be found. 

 

I had a neighbor who committed suicide, and I did call for a welfare check. He told the LEO he was fine. He was dead 48 hours later. 

 

And I've said this before on threads like this - stories like this are the reason that HS will one day be outlawed. People always jump all over me, but it is truly easier to hide abuse when your kids HS than when a kid is in public or private school.

 

outlawing hs won't stop this type of abuse.  they simply move to another area, and don't enroll the kids.  can't almost guarantee the kids don't go to a dr or dentist.

 

 

 

the mom does look like there is something very wrong with her.  physically as well, the black shadows around her eyes.  dad is also weird.

[gardenmom5]

I admit, I keep expecting to hear they read the pearl's or whoever it is.

it just reminds me of those cases.

[Mergath]

I've seen comments from people who live in that area who say it's really not that great of an area. 

 

Perhaps not, but I can't imagine it's such a rough neighborhood that children digging in the garbage for food would seem commonplace. I'm guessing people did know something bad was going on, but they didn't want to stick their nose into someone else's business.

 

It might not be my circus, but if someone is starving and torturing the monkeys, I'm going to get involved anyway. I wish more people felt that way.

[gardenmom5]

Perhaps not, but I can't imagine it's such a rough neighborhood that children digging in the garbage for food would seem commonplace. I'm guessing people did know something bad was going on, but they didn't want to stick their nose into someone else's business.

 

It might not be my circus, but if someone is starving and torturing the monkeys, I'm going to get involved anyway. I wish more people felt that way.

 

 

as someone mentioned, if I saw someone digging in their own trash, I'd think they were looking for something that was accidently thrown away.

 

like when 2ds left his retainer on his lunch tray and I had to go through the school's trash . . . . . :glare:  :glare:  :glare: (I couldn't afford to replace it.)

 

and as was also previously noted - is this an area where people think they police are there to help?  (or are they to be avoided, don't draw attention)

[Renthead Mommy]

Do we know what ever happened to the kids in KY that lived in the shack on land with the goat poop everywhere?  With the crazy parents who recorded their traffic stops and the dad told the kids the police had kidnapped the kids in the car with mom and the police were coming for then?  Mom and her crazy blog.

 

Stories like this always make me think of them.

[maize]

Perhaps not, but I can't imagine it's such a rough neighborhood that children digging in the garbage for food would seem commonplace. I'm guessing people did know something bad was going on, but they didn't want to stick their nose into someone else's business.

 

It might not be my circus, but if someone is starving and torturing the monkeys, I'm going to get involved anyway. I wish more people felt that way.

It would be easy for someone to be being abused in a home in my neighborhood without me knowing it.

 

I just don't see or know that much about my neighbors' lives. I'm not even sure how many people are currently living in the house next door. There are four or five cars that come and go, several adults, and at least one kid...but they could easily have seven more kids hidden away inside without me noticing.

 

Do you keep close tabs on all the comings and goings of your neighbors?

[Liz CA]

The bolded is exactly why I get so uncomfortable when the occasional threads come up here about kids "stealing" food. The very idea was shocking to me the first time I read it. In my world it's not and has never been possible for a child to steal food from his own home. The food is there, it's for anyone who wants it. And yes, I know I come from a place of privilege to be able to say that. But it truly was a concept I was entirely unfamiliar with before coming to this board. And even though there have been quite a few of those threads since I joined they still make me very uncomfortable. And (apologies for even posting this) make me wonder . . .

 

 

I always read those threads as in "taking food that was meant for something else." My grandmother once got miffed because I ate something that she wanted to prepare for dinner. It wasn't called stealing, though. But I can see saying: "Please don't eat the entire chicken. I am cutting it up for tonight's dinner."

If there were other threads here, I must have missed them.

[Χά�ων]

Do we know what ever happened to the kids in KY that lived in the shack on land with the goat poop everywhere? With the crazy parents who recorded their traffic stops and the dad told the kids the police had kidnapped the kids in the car with mom and the police were coming for then? Mom and her crazy blog.

 

Stories like this always make me think of them.

They are still crazy and the neighbors just as much so. There are lots of facebook pages, an anti-blog, lawsuits...

 

The kids still work under the table, have no identification and the oldest has a cbild and a restraining order against him from the baby mom. They are not being educated.

 

The parents did get a larger shed and live in what is basically a tinderbox ready to go up in flames. No running water and they were forced to get a port-a-potty instead of dumping buckets if human feces on the ground.

[TravelingChris]

The whole business about trash now reminds me that I was looking through the trash outside a few years ago for something I accidentally threw away. 

 

I also wondered if these people were Gothard types but they did wear jeans to Disneyland.  The whole thing is so weird.  Most really fundamental religious types who have loads of kids seem to usually stay away from places like Disneyland and Las Vegas.  Elvis wedding renewals in Vegas aren't typical in even normal everyday Christian circles (normally that would be done in a church or maybe a garden type place) let alone a quiverful fundamentalist type. And while I decry the Gothard system and the Pearl System, neither of those advocated chaining kids and adults up and starving them while spending money on vacations.  I really think that most likely some mental illness is involved with the parents too because filth is antithetical to those super strict systems too and the authorities said the house was really filthy.

[Nart]

I wonder if they are using the kids to get Supplemental Social Security Income disability payments? They could be getting $735 a month per child if they had them certified as having a significant disability.  Then the children would reach adulthood and they would keep their disability checks.  How are they paying of that house and going to Disneyland and Vegas?  They might have come up with a depraved way of making money - harm your children so much by keeping them isolated and starved so that when they were required to be assessed to see if they met eligibility of a child with a disability they would function as someone who was intellectually delayed and have low adaptive behavior skills.  I hope this isn't the case but seeing how small the adult children all look something is seriously amiss.  

[Tanaqui]

The whole business about trash now reminds me that I was looking through the trash outside a few years ago for something I accidentally threw away.

 

The thing is, a neighbor looking through the trash once or twice is not that big a deal (unless they pull out food and either eat it right there or bring it into the house, which would concern me). Kids doing it routinely is something else.

 

[unsinkable]

I wonder if they are using the kids to get Supplemental Social Security Income disability payments? They could be getting $735 a month per child if they had them certified as having a significant disability. Then the children would reach adulthood and they would keep their disability checks. How are they paying of that house and going to Disneyland and Vegas? They might have come up with a depraved way of making money - harm your children so much by keeping them isolated and starved so that when they were required to be assessed to see if they met eligibility of a child with a disability they would function as someone who was intellectually delayed and have low adaptive behavior skills. I hope this isn't the case but seeing how small the adult children all look something is seriously amiss.

Gypsy Rose Blanchard's mother seemed to have actually lied to Gypsy Rose about Gypsy's actual age...among other horrible things.

 

But Gypsy Rose was so abused, she still seems much younger than her chronological age.

[mathnerd]

Perhaps not, but I can't imagine it's such a rough neighborhood that children digging in the garbage for food would seem commonplace. I'm guessing people did know something bad was going on, but they didn't want to stick their nose into someone else's business.

 

This is america and we all live with plenty of food around. If I saw kids digging through trash, I would assume that they lost some legos or some such toy and are desperate to find it in the trash. Such things are what we assume are happening rather than starving kids looking for food in the trash. Maybe, in retrospect, it clicked in the minds of neighbors that the kids might have been digging for food in the trash.

[gardenmom5]

I wonder if they are using the kids to get Supplemental Social Security Income disability payments? They could be getting $735 a month per child if they had them certified as having a significant disability.  Then the children would reach adulthood and they would keep their disability checks.  How are they paying of that house and going to Disneyland and Vegas?  They might have come up with a depraved way of making money - harm your children so much by keeping them isolated and starved so that when they were required to be assessed to see if they met eligibility of a child with a disability they would function as someone who was intellectually delayed and have low adaptive behavior skills.  I hope this isn't the case but seeing how small the adult children all look something is seriously amiss.  

 

except- to get them ssdi they would have to have a medical exam stating they were disabled.  I can't see them exposing them to anyone in the medical profession.  and if every kid starts showing up disabled to collects ssdi - that in itself starts to send up flag.

[lauraw4321]

except- to get them ssdi they would have to have a medical exam stating they were disabled.  I can't see them exposing them to anyone in the medical profession.  and if every kid starts showing up disabled to collects ssdi - that in itself starts to send up flag.

 

They filed for personal bankruptcy twice. I think they just lived off of credit cards until they couldn't, filed for bankruptcy, started over. Maybe dad recently lost his job or some other factor to make things worse. The "kids" are all alive, so no one was starved *to death* just deprived enough to be malnourished and small. So maybe there was always a tight budget, but something happened to make it so that they had very little or no food for long period of times. I can see acute starvation to be a motivating factor to the 17 year old running away and getting help. Fear that she or one of her siblings might die.

[maize]

This whole story is pinging my "serious mental illness" radar.

 

I wonder if they took them to places like Vegas and Disneyland hoping to be "discovered"--maybe get their own show like the Duggars or something?

 

No grasp on reality.

[maize]

True confession:

 

One of my children once went digging through our trash looking for food.

 

It was part of the Forager badge on DIY.org--she was supposed to go dumpster diving and I told her that the kitchen trash would count.

[ktgrok]

I wonder if they are using the kids to get Supplemental Social Security Income disability payments? They could be getting $735 a month per child if they had them certified as having a significant disability.  Then the children would reach adulthood and they would keep their disability checks.  How are they paying of that house and going to Disneyland and Vegas?  They might have come up with a depraved way of making money - harm your children so much by keeping them isolated and starved so that when they were required to be assessed to see if they met eligibility of a child with a disability they would function as someone who was intellectually delayed and have low adaptive behavior skills.  I hope this isn't the case but seeing how small the adult children all look something is seriously amiss.  

 

My MIL did this...lied enough to get my DH diagnosed with something he didn't have in order to get SSI payments for him. 

[idnib]

If I saw a neighbor digging through their own trash, I would assume they were looking for something that may have been thrown away. I wouldn’t assume they were digging for food in their own trash.

 

That's what I was thinking. In our neighborhood if I saw a kid going through their own trash I would remember friends having to do that at school or restaurants to find retainers. Other people's trash would be a different story, but I don't know all the kids on our long block so I wouldn't know if it was their own trash if I drove or walked by.

 

[MooCow]

The area was sketchy over 14 years ago. I imagine nothing's changed and/or it's gotten worse.

[Lady Florida.]

All these points are why I have no problem with REASONABLE oversight of homeschooling families.

 

When we started homeschooling I was almost militantly anti-regulation. The more I saw and learned the more I leaned towards reasonable regulation.

[Ausmumof3]

Is there any likelihood someone had a gambling problem? $140k per year seems like a reasonable income though probably tight for that many people. Seems odd that they needed to file for bankruptcy.

 

I agree and am glad we have the home visit thing in our state.

[Garga]

The thing that bothers me is that I *don't* think the mom looks crazy.  She looks happy, but tired, in most of the pictures.  The man looks kinda ugly because his hair is just awful, so it's hard to tell for him.  I do think he looks creepy. 

 

I have very little information about who lives in the houses around me.  For all I know, they are all hiding all sorts of things in their houses and I'd be none the wiser. And I agree that if I saw the kids in the trash, I'd think they were looking for something thrown out by accident--unless it happened a lot.  And if I happened to be looking out the window, but most of the time I wouldn't even be looking in the first place.

 

My point is that it's sooo easy to hide these things and there can often be no way to tell just by looking at a person or their house.  

 

This story is horrible.  

Edited January 16, 2018 by Garga

[gardenmom5]

They filed for personal bankruptcy twice. I think they just lived off of credit cards until they couldn't, filed for bankruptcy, started over. Maybe dad recently lost his job or some other factor to make things worse. The "kids" are all alive, so no one was starved *to death* just deprived enough to be malnourished and small. So maybe there was always a tight budget, but something happened to make it so that they had very little or no food for long period of times. I can see acute starvation to be a motivating factor to the 17 year old running away and getting help. Fear that she or one of her siblings might die.

 

the kids have been starved/malnourished/underfed for years to have them to look so much younger than their actual chronological age.   while something recent could lead to weight loss causing bones to stick out, they wouldn't be small for age.

 

Is there any likelihood someone had a gambling problem? $140k per year seems like a reasonable income though probably tight for that many people. Seems odd that they needed to file for bankruptcy.

 

I agree and am glad we have the home visit thing in our state.

 

depends on how they handle money, and the col for the area.

I know people who make plenty, but where the money goes. . .

 

gambling, drugs, etc, are just a couple possibilities.   but it could just be everyday - can't handle money, pay too much for this or that, electronic toys, etc.

[Nart]

except- to get them ssdi they would have to have a medical exam stating they were disabled.  I can't see them exposing them to anyone in the medical profession.  and if every kid starts showing up disabled to collects ssdi - that in itself starts to send up flag.

 

I can see why it would draw suspicion, but some families have several children who are disabled due to a genetic syndrome so if one child is disabled then it might be more common for a sibling to be disabled. And if you have 13 children the chances are that several children could have the same syndrome. Perhaps, at least some of the siblings have some kind of disability and that is why they were not able to escape.  I am not sure we will ever know the whole story of what went on in that house. 

[Laurie]

The bolded is exactly why I get so uncomfortable when the occasional threads come up here about kids "stealing" food. The very idea was shocking to me the first time I read it. In my world it's not and has never been possible for a child to steal food from his own home. The food is there, it's for anyone who wants it. And yes, I know I come from a place of privilege to be able to say that. But it truly was a concept I was entirely unfamiliar with before coming to this board. And even though there have been quite a few of those threads since I joined they still make me very uncomfortable. And (apologies for even posting this) make me wonder . . .

 

So you're wondering if there are people here who are intentionally starving their children?

 

I've read things here that I, too, find deeply disturbing.  Not long ago, there were people here defending a man seen walking a woman on a leash at a grocery store  and even claiming to be involved in that type of relationship.   If some man thinks it's perfectly fine to flaunt this type of deviant behavior in public,  is it wrong to wonder about what he might be doing in the privacy of his home not only with his wife/girlfriend, but also with his children?  Maybe chaining them to their beds?  

[Lady Florida.]

While Perris is low cost for CA, it's still CA. It's not the greatest area, but a lot of families that were priced out of North County San Diego and Temecula/Murrieta moved out farther to Hemet and Perris. So it's a mix of old not-so-nice neighborhoods and new suburban, mostly commuter homes there. 

 

 

 

Does that mean the $140K he made before losing the job wasn't really much due to CA col? I didn't think of that because that amount is quite a decent salary here - you could live nice and comfortably. But now that you mention it, I wonder if it's not such a big salary there.

[emmaluv+2more]

So you're wondering if there are people here who are intentionally starving their children?

 

I've read things here that I, too, find deeply disturbing. Not long ago, there were people here defending a man seen walking a woman on a leash at a grocery store and even claiming to be involved in that type of relationship. If some man thinks it's perfectly fine to flaunt this type of deviant behavior in public, is it wrong to wonder about what he might be doing in the privacy of his home not only with his wife/girlfriend, but also with his children? Maybe chaining them to their beds?

Oh my. This is a gigantic stretch, to say the least.

[wonderchica]

The article I read said the grandparents reported they took “frequent†trips to Disneyland and Vegas. I assume Disney could be a day trip, but for that many people that’s a ton of cash. I can see bankruptcy if you’re living above your means that way.

[Ausmumof3]

That’s a pretty good salary for north county and riverside county. Definitely for a single wage earner. With that many dependents things wouldn’t be comfortable but it’s plenty to live on there and I know other large families in those cities who manage on less than that. Anything about 80-100k or so for a single wage earner is pretty darn good. But for 14 people it would be squeaking, especially with carried debt.

Which then comes back to the question of why the adult children were not being permitted to work and pay at least something toward their own upkeep.

 

Something very crazy underlying it all.

 

I do wonder if some kind of Duggar, Perl parenting philosophy gone really overboard is at play.

 

I mean who even wants to have their adult kids living at home forever.

[Ausmumof3]

The article I read said the grandparents reported they took “frequent†trips to Disneyland and Vegas. I assume Disney could be a day trip, but for that many people that’s a ton of cash. I can see bankruptcy if you’re living above your means that way.

Hmm true. And I do know how quickly money can disappear if you aren't careful.

 

Which I guess if you can't afford to feed the kids and pay the bills but you are going to Disney and Vegas is definitely a thing.

[ktgrok]

Oh brother. Because (by all indications) consenting adults and child abuse are totes the same.

 

It’s a spectrum, just like parenting and homeschooling. Someone doing these things and not being an abuser shouldn’t get lumped in with someone doing these things in an abusive manner. The abusers are the issue, not correlated lifestyle choices that aren’t inherently harmful.

 

Careful with that slippery slope on a homeschooling forum. Degree and intent and happiness of everyone involved absolutely matters, especially in things not inherently abusive, like parenting or relationships.

 

Thank you for saving me the trouble. 

[Paige]

None of the kids looks especially thin or malnourished to my eyes in the pictures on DailyMail. They look like normal, thin, but healthy, kids to me. None of them look like mid-20s adults either, fwiw, but if I saw them out I wouldn't think twice. My first thought was that something must have happened within the last few years to send the parents off the edge and I hope the abuse was recent rather than long term. 

 

I think it would be easy to hide abuse like them in even very nice neighborhoods, or maybe especially in very nice neighborhoods because there's often more distance between the homes. I'm not surprised that they homeschooled, but I'm not sure regulations would help. If homeschooling was illegal and the family stayed where they were a teacher could have called in for a welfare check, but if they moved and didn't register the kids, who would know?

 

 

[Lisa R.]

Yeah, you can't try to pin this on homeschooling if neighbors see something like this and don't report it. They could have just as easily not registered them at all or withdrew from school and then never register at another school.

Honestly, I think it would be fair to pin this lack of discovery on homeschooling. Neighbors didn’t see the children daily and likely aren’t trained to recognize abuse. If they had been in school, adults trained to recognize trauma, neglect and abuse would’ve interacted with them daily. This is a case that screams “call CPS†to anyone somewhat familiar with normal childhood development.

 

I realize kids fall through the cracks at school. The likelihood of all 13 children from one family falling through the cracks at school seems highly unlikely.

 

I support homeschooling. Cases like this make me support more homeschooling oversight. This is a travesty.

[Lady Florida.]

That’s a pretty good salary for north county and riverside county. Definitely for a single wage earner. With that many dependents things wouldn’t be comfortable but it’s plenty to live on there and I know other large families in those cities who manage on less than that. Anything about 80-100k or so for a single wage earner is pretty darn good. But for 14 people it would be squeaking, especially with carried debt.

 

Thanks. I'm not familiar with various areas of the state. Some years back dh's work sent him to Vandenberg AFB for a week (he works for a civilian contractor at an AFB here). He came home saying it was a beautiful area but a house like ours would cost at least 3x as much as it does here. 

Edited January 17, 2018 by Lady Florida.

[GoodGrief]

We had a similar story up here several years ago. Pilgrim's Wilderness is the book written about the case, and it is fascinating to see how such control can develop. The family patriarch ended up dying in prison; one of the adult children was on the road to building a normal life, but was in freak accident where both legs were traumatically amputated. I'm not sure where the mother and the many other siblings are, though there was another family who sort of took them under their wing. Maybe that helped. I'm truly not sure how one recovers from such an upbringing without intensive therapy....and our mental health system makes that difficult to attain in the best of circumstances.

[Ravin]

I get the vibe that they were maybe starving the kids to try and keep them childlike for some reason. So bizarre.

 

[Ausmumof3]

Honestly, I think it would be fair to pin this lack of discovery on homeschooling. Neighbors didn’t see the children daily and likely aren’t trained to recognize abuse. If they had been in school, adults trained to recognize trauma, neglect and abuse would’ve interacted with them daily. This is a case that screams “call CPS†to anyone somewhat familiar with normal childhood development.

 

I realize kids fall through the cracks at school. The likelihood of all 13 children from one family falling through the cracks at school seems highly unlikely.

 

I support homeschooling. Cases like this make me support more homeschooling oversight. This is a travesty.

And yet so many kids seem to go through the school system in abusive homes or environments without anything being done.

[TravelingChris]

It isn't a big salary there. It is an okay salary for a normal to normally large family if that is similar in costs to what my colder high cost area was like about eight years ago when we were making about that much.  We had only three kids we were supporting but we did know larger homeschool families that made the same salary (all military so that is why we knew approx. salaries) and all of us were not only feeding our kids with the money but clothing, trips, etc. However, those larger families were up to about 6 or so kids, not 13.  That is more than double the amount of kids and they were older too so should have been getting more food. I don't think they had to be really extravagent spenders in other ways.   I mean they obviously fed the kids some food though much less than acceptable.  The whole thing is just so bizarre.

[Ausmumof3]

I get the vibe that they were maybe starving the kids to try and keep them childlike for some reason. So bizarre.

Yes I wondered this too. I think it's because in the matching clothes photos the clothes and hairstyles they were wearing seem very childish for the age of the participants. That and the grandparents description of mum as "very protective"