Boys to Men - continuum or point in time for you?

[dereksurfs]

Hi,

 

I have a question for the hive which has no 'right' answer. Rather, I would like to know your experiences with your kids as they went from high school to college aged adults. Did things change for you at a certain point in time regarding the way you viewed them? Like one day they were a 'big kid' and the next day they were an adult? For example, the moment they went off to college were they suddenly adults in your eyes? Sort of like a right passage? Or has that been a gradual process, easy, difficult, a bit awkward, or..? Some kids leave to college as young as 17 and its hard for me to imagine at this stage of parenting.

 

Secondly, if they stayed at home after high school, did your house rules change overnight or was that gradual as well. Regardless of how quickly it occurred, was it challenging or fairly natural and automatic? Our kids are likely to live at home for a time while in college to help pay for it.

 

I imagine these answers will vary by family as well potentially with different children within the same family.

 

The reason I ask is that first and foremost I respect you folks and you've also been like an extended family. Secondly, as parents and the father of a 16.5 y/o son with two younger dds waiting and watching in the wings, this stage is totally new to us. We are used to them being our kids plain and simple though bigger now of course. Obviously they have matured since they were small children. But they are not adults yet either. When I hear folks on this board speak of their college aged kids as adults, free to live their own lives, make their own decisions, etc... it just seems so foreign, like its going to be a challenge for us. I therefore need to prepare for this major paradigm shift.

 

Background: We've homeschooled them from the very beginning. Though they'll have attended our local CC while in high school. They are probably more sheltered than most teens/tweens. We also probably have more family rules and regiments than most. They have curfews, go to bed at certain times, wake together, we eat meals together, limit internet usage, limit social media, recommend age appropriate movies, books, reading materials, limit types of food they eat including sweets/snacks. We require some form of exercise as apart of their PE. We attend church together and they attend youth group separately. Oh, and we've never had to deal with dating relationships 'yet' of any kind! You get the idea. So now I'm telling my wife we are going to need to treat our son as an adult... soon. She then gives me this strange look like 'what does that even mean!?' Lord have mercy!!!  lol   :D

Edited December 8, 2017 by dereksurfs

[J-rap]

I think it will vary a lot depending on families, personalities, etc.  We had quite a bit of family structure too in some areas (though not as much as you), but our ds was quite independent starting at around 16.  He also happened to have a very self-disciplined, ambitious personally which I suppose resulted in our letting go more easily.  BUT, even when he was off on his own at age 18, he was still a mix of big kid and young man.   :)  (Although, he was pretty much making all of his own decisions by then -- we only stepped in when he or we felt it would be helpful, and in rare events, necessary.)  Since then, it has been a gradual process of maturity, much of it tempered by life experiences (some difficult).  

 

I think with all of his siblings after him (he was the oldest), it was also gradual, though he was ready for independence earlier than the others.

Edited December 8, 2017 by J-rap

[Pawz4me]

Our boys are 19 and 22 but I'm not sure that I can give you a lot of useful advice since our parenting style is pretty much the opposite of yours--we've always been very laid back and minimized rules as much as possible. Our boys never had a curfew, never had a set bed time after they were about seven or eight, were in control of their own food intake after they were about four, etc. It's possible we were incredibly lucky but we never had the need for many rules. They've always been good, reliable kids. But even so the transition to adulthood has been a gradual, steady continuum and continues to be. Even though DS22 is a senior and already has a full time job commitment following graduation he still relies on us for a LOT of advice. So while we're still very much in the picture, our role has gradually shifted to that of advisers. I think not being heavily rules oriented has helped in that regard, but still . . . you can do it. Keep in mind that it's much easier on the kid (although perhaps not the parents) to start learning independence at an early age rather than when he's 18 and headed out the door. IMO at 16 it's past time to start treating them as adults in some regards. (Note "some" is an important word there.)

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

I have no BTDT experience, but I think one possibility is to ask your near-adult children, "How do you picture life working for us as a family when you enter early adulthood?  What rules do you think should go, and what rules do you think are just part of the life-organization of a mutually respectful family sharing space together?"  After all, these are near-adults and so making decisions like this without consulting them seems weird.  

[Kassia]

Our boys are 19 and 22 but I'm not sure that I can give you a lot of useful advice since our parenting style is pretty much the opposite of yours--we've always been very laid back and minimized rules as much as possible. Our boys never had a curfew, never had a set bed time after they were about seven or eight, were in control of their own food intake after they were about four, etc. It's possible we were incredibly lucky but we never had the need for many rules. They've always been good, reliable kids. But even so the transition to adulthood has been a gradual, steady continuum and continues to be. Even though DS22 is a senior and already has a full time job commitment following graduation he still relies on us for a LOT of advice. So while we're still very much in the picture, our role has gradually shifted to that of advisers. I think not being heavily rules oriented has helped in that regard, but still . . . you can do it. Keep in mind that it's much easier on the kid (although perhaps not the parents) to start learning independence at an early age rather than when he's 18 and headed out the door. IMO at 16 it's past time to start treating them as adults in some regards. (Note "some" is an important word there.)

 

Our experience has been like this.  Our sons are all in their twenties now and it has definitely been a gradual, steady continuum with each son having different needs.  We were also very laid back, but our sons were fairly easy and we didn't feel the need for a lot of rules and we didn't have any big issues with them ever (I feel very lucky about that!).  We never went through any rough times with them like you hear a lot of parents go through with their teens or college students and they are delightful young men now who still want advice at times, but are all independent now.  

Edited December 8, 2017 by Kassia

[snowbeltmom]

Hi,

 

I have a question for the hive which has no 'right' answer. Rather, I would like to know your experiences with your kids as they went from high school to college aged adults. Did things change for you at a certain point in time regarding the way you viewed them? Like one day they were a 'big kid' and the next day they were an adult? For example, the moment they went off to college were they suddenly adults in your eyes? Sort of like a right passage? Or has that been a gradual process, easy, difficult, a bit awkward, or..? Some kids leave to college as young as 17 and its hard for me to imagine at this stage of parenting.

 

I could have written Pawz4me's post as our parenting styles are the same.  For us, there was no right of passage - it was a gradual process.

[regentrude]

It was and is a gradual process here. I could have written Pawz4me's post almost verbatim.

 

We had minimal rules and basically operated on the principle to give them freedom unless they showed us a good reason not to. We did not micromanage internet use or relationships, the kids never had a curfew. They grew organically into more independence and responsibility - while still having us as a source of help, advice, and encouragement. They still ask for our opinion and advice, even though they are in college. 

 

I see growing into adulthood as a process. It does not magically start on a particular day, nor does it end when the kids leave home. And our relationship reflects that. I find that taking the cues from my kids helps me navigate my role; they show me where they don't want us to meddle and where they crave more involvement.

 

ETA: I think it is important that young people are given freedom and responsibility for themselves before they leave home. It is not a good situation when they get to college and for the first time encounter the freedom of no curfew, no supervision, etc; that can lead to stupid choices. I'd rather mine are used to it and have learned how to manage their sleep, their computer use, their relationships while still under my roof. 

Edited December 8, 2017 by regentrude

[Kassia]

 

 

ETA: I think it is important that young people are given freedom and responsibility for themselves before they leave home. It is not a good situation when they get to college and for the first time encounter the freedom of no curfew, no supervision, etc; that can lead to stupid choices. I'd rather mine are used to it and have learned how to manage their sleep, their computer use, their relationships while still under my roof. 

 

This is an excellent point.

[AMJ]

Maturing is a continual process, but not a uniformly paced one.  There are points of greater acceleration, and periods where the subject might even seem to back-slide.  There might be sudden moments in which subjects take a large leap forward (or are thrown forward whether they are ready or not).  It is a continual progress, however, that last's one's whole life long.

 

Discuss things with your kids periodically along the way.  Give them some freedoms, but hold them to the responsibilities that always come with those freedoms.  Teach them how to handle things, and let them discover WHY things so often are the way they are.  Let them stumble and help them figure out how to recover.

[amathis229]

Ohmygawd!!! I'm wondering the same thing myself! My 17-year-old son at times seems so mature and at other times...so ridiculously juvenile! I mean, who breaks up with their girlfriend the week of finals?!!! We've taken a modified fishing line approach. Basic guidelines in place, long line, reeling it in as needed. This last year, with the girlfriend drama, we've had to take in quite a bit of line. In the process of letting it back out again. After all, he'll be leaving for college next fall (thank you!!!). I keep telling myself: the frontal lobe does not fully develop in males until age 25 (or later). 

 

 

[J-rap]

Actually, I think it's always a gradual process, which is why I've never held to the belief that 18 is a magic age when children are suddenly ready to be grown up and completely independent.

 

I do think there can be certain life events that cause the pace to change.

 

I agree with AMJ though, in that it's really a whole life process.

 

 

[dereksurfs]

Maturing is a continual process, but not a uniformly paced one.  There are points of greater acceleration, and periods where the subject might even seem to back-slide.  There might be sudden moments in which subjects take a large leap forward (or are thrown forward whether they are ready or not).  It is a continual progress, however, that last's one's whole life long.

 

Discuss things with your kids periodically along the way. Give them some freedoms, but hold them to the responsibilities that always come with those freedoms.  Teach them how to handle things, and let them discover WHY things so often are the way they are.  Let them stumble and help them figure out how to recover.

 

Its seems like all the answers have been a gradual process. Though I can certainly imagine points of greater acceleration. Maybe that will be more so for certain families like our own who have greater structure than most. So I find this encouraging since I cannot imagine it being some kind of 'instant' switch. That seems very unnatural. 

 

Our kids don't seem to mind the structure nor have they ever really complained about it. Well, except for our girls not being allowed to do sleepovers yet or them wanting more junk food on occasion.

 

While I can see how giving them more freedoms over time would be easier, I think we'll really need to accelerate things for our 16.5 y/o. He does have more freedoms than our girls, is allowed to stay up later when he's studying for a test, etc... We also let him go out to an amusement park recently with his youth group until 1 AM. He's learning to drive. I've also begun letting him watch more intense action movies (PG-13).

 

The importance of discussions, yes. I've begun having these more with him. For example, we've talked about how college students may be living on their own, managing their own time, pulling all nighters sometimes, can eat whatever they want, etc... Though I want to have more of these talks. We need to allow him more room to stumble now. He's finally getting a cell phone for Christmas which will have more responsibilities. And he's expected to work a job or internship this Summer. So we've been discussing these adult like activities more.

 

My greatest concern is that we'll treat him like an overgrown kid once he's in college. Honestly, most college aged young adults seem like big kids to me anyway. Heck, I still remember being a 'big kid' in college! However, I was also very independent from an early age while growing up in a broken home. In fact, my wife and I had similar experiences. We both came from broken homes where our parents were either very loose with the rules or very disengaged and busy with their own chaotic lives. So we've probably swung a bit further in the opposite direction in terms of rules, freedoms, etc... due at least in part to the downsides we experienced in those overly permissive environments. Add to that the 60s (for me) and 70s for my wife and they were definitely wilder times. :tongue_smilie: :biggrinjester:

Edited December 8, 2017 by dereksurfs

[Mom22ns]

Maturity and seeing a young adult as an adult was definitely a gradual process. There is no mark they hit that says "Wow, they are an adult now!". PawsforMe represented my experience pretty well too, although one of my has multiple LDs and was a bit slower to mature and was less responsible along the way. I can't really name any rules we ever had in our house. We ran by the general concept of mutual respect. There were never chores, just things that needed to be done and everyone pitching in as they recognized those things or were asked. My kids never had curfews, but in this age of smart phones, they were expected to keep us posted if there was anything out of the ordinary going on. My adult kids don't live here, but when they are home on breaks I still expect them to help out as needed and to let me know if they are going to be gone for any period of time that impacts the family (i.e. I won't be home for dinner tonight). I wondered if it would be hard when they came home after being gone the first year, but it really wasn't a big deal. We're pretty relaxed and they had classes and/or jobs and kept their own schedules. 

 

ETA Having reread your initial post, if you are still treating your older teen as a child, it is time to start making some changes. It will be much harder on you and them if the change is a switch that flips giving them complete control. Let them begin to take control of smaller things so they are ready when the full responsibility of adulthood hits.

Edited December 8, 2017 by Momto2Ns

[SeaConquest]

My kids are young, so I have no btdt advice (plus, we are also of the laid-back parenting variety), but I grew up in a much stricter household (though, tbh, yours sounds incredibly strict in this day and age). Anyway, to hear her talk about it, there was a stark line for my mother: the day she watched me graduate from Army basic training at age 17. It really brought it home for her that I was really truly an adult in the world. While I couldn't drink or vote, I could die for my country. In her mind, it didn't get more adult than that. And 16.5 is pretty close to 17. Perhaps that gives you some perspective, as it did my mother.

Edited December 8, 2017 by SeaConquest

[Tree Frog]

We have 2 dd's who are in college and a 16.5 yo son. The maturing process for us has been gradual, though sometimes it seems the kids take more than we're ready to give them. We've been fairly permissive parents, only enforcing rules when needed. Our goal has been to allow them more freedoms in their junior year of high school and complete freedom during their senior year, including time management, personal chores (like laundry), and schooling. Our thought is to be able to guide them when there are problems while they're home and set a standard for self care when they leave for college. I've encouraged my kids to have boy/girlfriends while in high school (they were in ps for high school) so we could help them maneuver through those relationships. My oldest had one not serious boyfriend in high school and a much more serious one in college. It didn't work out with the serious boyfriend, but because she had experienced one relationship and we had talked through it (and talked and talked and talked), she was able to move forward despite being devastated. My son had a girlfriend, but it didn't work out. He told me afterward that  he understood why the girls didn't want any boyfriends...There's too much drama. LOL!

 

Our goal is to have them self sufficient before they head to college, but there is still a lot of guidance that happens while they're in college. Dh has had to be careful about pushing a budget with them; they know what their budget is and they're given flexibility in how to manage it. (We give them a set amount of money for college and help them use it wisely, but when that money is gone, they won't get any more from us.) We monitor the budgets, but there's a fine line between allowing them to handle it the way they want (different from what dh wants, but not wrong) and micromanaging. The girls are learning how to disagree with their dad, an important skill they need. I've found the relationship has shifted from telling them what to do to more listening and asking guiding questions. Sometimes my younger dd gets frustrated with me when I won't tell her what she should do, but I really feel they need to be comfortable in their decisions, even if they're different from what I would do. So I ask a lot of "why" questions or ask for more background information. Sometimes, if I think it's an issue they need to figure out, I will choose to be vague when I answer, but I usually also tell them that they usually make good decisions and to trust themselves or follow their gut. We've also talked about what to do if they make poor decisions, how they can still learn from them and it doesn't mean they're a failure. And with oldest dd, we've had to encourage her to make decisions. It used to be she wouldn't make any decisions (which is a decision in and of itself), but sometimes the indecision caused her some grief. This year, her senior year of college, she's starting to make decisions on her own. In fact, she made a major decision without talking it through with us at all. When she first told us about it, she was very clear she didn't want our input. As things have progressed, she has asked for info or suggestions. But we needed to respect her request and not offer advice until she asked. That's a huge step for her. (And to be honest, for us, too. It was difficult to not offer suggestions or ask about it.) 

 

Our relationship has shifted from parent/child to adult/adult with our oldest. It hasn't happened yet with our younger dd, but it will. And with our son, it will likely take a little longer than with our dd's. He seems to be 2 steps forward, one and a half steps backwards. It's a fun time to see the kids grow into adulthood. It is also challenging to allow them to grow independently of you and sometimes your values.

[Grantmom]

I think it's so different for every one and every family, and the best advice is probably to listen to your child and your gut on what feels right, and adjust and shift as they grow.  It's hard with the first child!  Things change and you have to shift and adjust.  I have to trust that I know my child and that I can listen to what feels right for him and for our family at the time.  That might mean different things at different times, and shifting my perspective as they grow.  I think the key is just talking about things a lot and creating an environment where your child feels safe and loved and can come to you when they need you.  You will figure it out, I am sure!    

[luuknam]

our girls not being allowed to do sleepovers yet

 

I've also begun letting him watch more intense action movies (PG-13).

 

Though I want to have more of these talks.

 

My greatest concern is that we'll treat him like an overgrown kid once he's in college. 

 

 

So, I can't help but notice that you're the same person who started the college abroad thread... Unless I'm misinterpreting the thing about your girls not being allowed to have sleepovers yet, and you meant in the past but they currently are allowed to, or you meant no sleepovers with boys, or w/e, 12-13 seems definitely not too young to have sleepovers, especially in the grand scheme of sending them to a different continent when they're 18 or so.

 

Also, while I don't see a need for watching lots of intense action movies, the MPAA is pretty conservative already, so just beginning to let a 16.5yo watch PG-13 rated stuff is, uh, extremely conservative (I know that R is 17+, but in NL the highest rating is 16+ (short of porn, which is obviously 18+), and a fair number of R-rated movies are rated 12+ there and a fair number of PG-13 rated things are rated 9+ or 6+ (most South Park TV episodes are rated 6+... not that I think 6yos should be watching South Park, just illustrating how the MPAA is rather conservative).

 

So, have more conversations. Make a list of things the kids should be able to do by the time they graduate high school - how to use the bus to go places alone (your girls can start working on that one now - you can send them together at first), how to cook dinner, staying home alone for increasing lengths of time, give them an allowance and make them buy their own clothes, etc*. Because right now, it sounds like maybe you are on track of making your biggest fear come true (though it does sound like you are taking some steps with your 16.5yo). And yes, it's scary, increasing kids' independence... you never know for sure that things will go right, but such is life - you won't know for sure those things will go right if you wait till 18 either. 

 

*It's of course possible that I'm completely misinterpreting things, and all your kids already know how to use the bus to get anywhere, and that they are already chefs, and that they already know how to stay home alone for an entire day or evening, in which case, please disregard and pat yourself on the back for a job well done.

[creekland]

Add us to the more relaxed parents.  I can't recall ever having a bedtime for my guys.  They just went to bed when they were tired like any of us do.  We all eat together (whoever is home) as a family (except breakfast).  We all get things accomplished together when something needs to be done.

 

The only time we were strict was with my oldest - not letting him date while in his middle or high school years (preferring he wait until college).  That was dumb TBH.  We eliminated that for my other two.

 

The kids learned traveling with us and started going on their own, but with groups at age 13 (Internationally or out of state).  They travel completely on their own now that they've reached college age.

 

We were never strict with our own diets (though ate mostly healthy), so certainly didn't apply strict rules to them.  They all still eat mostly healthy - probably healthier than we parents do.

 

They watched movies along with us - still do.   They watch them with friends too.  We never micromanaged what.  We all played games together and watched TV together too - still do when they are home.  Friends are included if they're here.

 

I guess we never saw raising kids to be an "us vs them" or "rules for kids" thing.  We just saw them as members of our family (team) and included them right in with what we did.  They seemed to like it.  Not one single regret other than being a bit too strict with oldest on the dating thing.

 

They did not have a problem adjusting to college other than having to encourage youngest to get out and join some clubs he liked to find friends after he got stuck with a rotten roommate.  He also switched roommates.

 

All are doing very well with their lives now.

[creekland]

ps  I was "that parent" who also freely told my youngest - my ps lad - that if he ever got any permission slip that needed signing, to go ahead and sign my signature so I didn't have to worry about it...  

 

No regrets there either.  He still told us where he was going (if a field trip) or what was going on (if a rated R movie in history class or something), but that was just the sharing we all did/do as a family.  By high school he was old enough to do anything or decide if he wanted to go somewhere with a group.  He definitely didn't need our permission for those things!

 

Even now, as a teacher, I tell kids in my class that they don't need to ask my permission to use the bathroom.  They're old enough to know if they have to go (or just want a 3-5 minute break to walk there and back).  They know the school's rules about signing out/in of a classroom (in case we need proof of who was where, etc).  They sure don't need to ask me about it all.  If they were to abuse the privilege they know they'll get in trouble, but honestly?  That very rarely happens.

[dereksurfs]

So, have more conversations. Make a list of things the kids should be able to do by the time they graduate high school - how to use the bus to go places alone (your girls can start working on that one now - you can send them together at first), how to cook dinner, staying home alone for increasing lengths of time, give them an allowance and make them buy their own clothes, etc*. Because right now, it sounds like maybe you are on track of making your biggest fear come true (though it does sound like you are taking some steps with your 16.5yo). And yes, it's scary, increasing kids' independence... you never know for sure that things will go right, but such is life - you won't know for sure those things will go right if you wait till 18 either. 

 

*It's of course possible that I'm completely misinterpreting things, and all your kids already know how to use the bus to get anywhere, and that they are already chefs, and that they already know how to stay home alone for an entire day or evening, in which case, please disregard and pat yourself on the back for a job well done.

 

These are all good suggestions. We are learning as we go with them. Our son has done sleep overs with his buddies where they game and do goofy stuff all night. Though my wife is still more protective of the girls at this stage. I think when the next good opportunity comes along for our middle dd to go away with friends to camp, I'll encourage it. We did surprise her with her first airline trip alone to visit her closest friend who moved out of state. She handled that really well and enjoyed traveling alone. They also help cook on occasion, though that is something we want to do more of. While the bus isn't used much in our smaller community since things are relatively close, they do ride their bikes around the town. Our oldest rides to the college and then takes off on longer rides for exercise, etc...

 

I may have painted a picture more strict that things really are. It's a bit hard to see the full picture online when you only have what was written to go on and sort of have to fill in the blanks. Though we do have more family rules than most. That's why I've been talking with my wife about the need to loosen those up for our oldest more now. He is very level headed and we do trust his judgement. Since he'll be commuting from home to college initially, there will be time for us all to adjust to his new freedoms, determining his own schedule, etc... I do expect that he'll continue to ask us for advice and guidance. But I also like the idea of asking him questions to encourage him to think through decisions on his own.

Edited December 9, 2017 by dereksurfs

[luuknam]

Though my wife is still more protective of the girls at this stage. 

 

I may have painted a picture more strict that things really are. It's a bit hard to see the full picture online when you only have what was written to go on and sort of have to fill in the blanks. 

 

 

Right. It does sound like maybe you're not as strict and they're more independent than previous posts in this thread made it sound like (which is why I put that disclaimer). So, do pat yourself on the back some. :) 

 

Is there any opportunity for martial arts or something nearby? It might make your wife feel better, plus I think it's a good thing for girls in general to do that for a bit (for boys too, for that matter, especially if they're not big strong jock types, but even more so for girls). 

 

I would practice using the bus *some* before sending them abroad or w/e, but that's a ways off. 

[dereksurfs]

Right. It does sound like maybe you're not as strict and they're more independent than previous posts in this thread made it sound like (which is why I put that disclaimer). So, do pat yourself on the back some. :)

 

Is there any opportunity for martial arts or something nearby? It might make your wife feel better, plus I think it's a good thing for girls in general to do that for a bit (for boys too, for that matter, especially if they're not big strong jock types, but even more so for girls). 

 

I would practice using the bus *some* before sending them abroad or w/e, but that's a ways off. 

 

Its funny that you asked about martial arts. Our kids are very athletic and our dds did gymnastics for much of their childhood. Just recently they started a Brazilian martial arts class called Capoeira which is a combination of self-defense, dance and acrobatics (flips, kicks, handstands, etc...).

 

Our youngest is also the 'runt of litter' as she calls herself. She is very petite and my wife and I are definitely the most protective of her. But she'll eventually sprout up like the others even if not as quite as tall. The other two have grown to adult height already and are fairly confident though also somewhat shy. We're going to have our middle dd start taking college courses her freshman year next Fall. So that will be a good opportunity for us to release the reigns more on her as well as a good learning experience and challenge.

 

Yes, she's also the one who has asked about going to school abroad and is learning German currently. We'll have to wait and see where that goes as she grows more and considers various options. She struggles a bit more academically than the others. And we've told her that while German universities are free or very affordable in some cases, free does not mean easy. They have to work very hard in those EU countries while in high school and college. I do think she has the greatest desire of all three to get out there on her own at some point and see the world!

Edited December 9, 2017 by dereksurfs

[Arcadia]

My side of the family has plenty of late bloomers for the males so I don’t expect my kids to launch into full adulthood at 18. It would likely be asynchronous and gradual for them. My husband is oblivious to family history so no help there on how many late bloomers there are on his side of the family.

 

Yes, she's also the one who has asked about going to school abroad and is learning German currently. We'll have to wait and see where that goes as she grows more and considers various options. She struggles a bit more academically than the others. And we've told her that while German universities are free or very affordable in some cases, free does not mean easy. They have to work very hard in those EU countries while in high school and college. I do think she has the greatest desire of all three to get out there on her own at some point and see the world!

For your daughter to consider next year

 

“Congress–Bundestag Youth Exchange Program (CBYX)

CBYX: Full scholarships for high school students to spend an academic year in Germany. Live with a host family while you attend high school or participate in an internship. Live and learn German culture!

 

Deadline: December 12, 2017†https://exchanges.state.gov/us/high-school

[Nan in Mass]

My husband and I lived with my parents for awhile as adults.  My parents had lived with their parents as adults, too.  And my children have lived with us as adults.  We sort of have this down.  I'm not saying it is easy or that we always do the right thing, but what we are supposed to be doing is pretty clear to us.  It pretty much boils down to this:

 

As soon as they are big enough physically, you have to persuade them to what you want rather than force them to do what you want.  Although in theory this is happens at about 3 years old, when they are no longer big enough that you can pick them up if they don't want you to, in actuality, as long as you don't lose their trust and love, you can get away with telling them to do things a lot longer.  So DON'T LOSE THEIR TRUST AND LOVE.  That means not betraying them, respecting their body, respecting their property, respecting their emotions, respecting their decisions, and behaving as someone who is worthy of their respect.  You have to start doing that as soon as they are born because although they will forgive you a lot when they are little (fortunately), the older they get, the more they see and remember and add things to their picture of the world.

 

In my family, the 18th birthday is an event at which everyone acknowledged that you have switched from having to follow special rules for non-adults to having to follow the general house rules that applied to all the adults in that household.  You still have to bring a life jacket with you if you got in a boat, not do anything illegal, not leave a car with an empty gas tank, let the cook know if you weren't going to be there for a meal, etc.  If someone wants you to do the dishes, they phrase it as a polite request, the way they would if you were a friend.  Instead of orders, people offer advice about decisions, lots and lots (slow bloomers here), some of it fairly strongly worded, and offer sympathy when you make bad decisions rather than criticism, the way they do when a friend makes a bad decision.

 

This doesn't mean that a whole lot of parenting doesn't still happen.  It does.  It just is done differently.  As parents, the trick is to make the transition slowly, before 18, so that by the time the 18th birthday comes along, the transition to adult rules has already happened.  A super important part of this is figuring out what you want those adult rules to be and start following them yourself well before the first child's 18th birthday.  Preferably about 18 years before.  For example, are you going to be one of those families that always tells someone where they are going?  Is the food usable by anyone at any time, or is there someone in charge of it who needs to be asked before it get used?  Is swearing ok?  What is the policy for alcohol?  As your children get older, they will have rules that they want to add or abolish and that is good.  They will think of things to make family life smoother that you haven't.  Although adult household rules are negotiated within the family, in the end, the owner of the house has the final decision.

 

In my experience, the households who have the most trouble are the ones who have different sets of rules for different adults in the household - older/younger, male/female, etc..  That doesn't mean that chores aren't split up, but the rules associated with responsibilities for ones chores apply to everyone.  That doesn't mean that individuals don't own things like cars and have to have permission asked before use, but that general rules about borrowing something apply to everyone.  For example, at my parents' house, one puts ones car keys in the bowl by the door when one comes in, so that nobody gets parked in when somebody is off in a boat.

 

In my experience, the households with the most rules have the most trouble.  In that case, there are bound to be rules that don't make sense to some of the adults in the household.  Rules that don't make sense tend to be forgotten, which causes upset.  As parents and home owners, you have to have clear in your head what consequences you are willing to apply to adults who aren't following your rules.  Your options are limited because they have to be honest and you have to keep following the household rules.  They pretty much boil down to the same things you could do to a friend who was a guest in your house.  You can refuse to do nice things for the rule-breaker.  You can remind them politely and forgive them and keep loving them anyway.  You can talk about the rule and see if it is a good rule.  You can kick them out of the house.  You can ignore them.  You can refuse to talk to them.  You can make a scene and yell at them.  You can refuse to lend your property (like your car).  You can refuse to invite them to do something fun with you.  The same options that would damage a friendship will also damage your relationship with your adult child.

 

Nan

[8filltheheart]

One advantage to having a large family is that my kids learn how to run a household, cook, manage their spending ; do laundry, cleaninging, home maintenance repairs, etc simply as part of daily life. My older kids can run our household when I can't. They don't particularly like it (actually some really detest it!), but they can do it if required.

 

We also fall into the fewer defined rules category. Most of the time we don't have articulated rules (more like a generally understood "familial functioning code") unless a child consistently does something that forces us to create one. Our oldest is the only one who has ever had a curfew or that we required to get a job. Why? He was dating his then girlfriend, now wife, and he wanted to go out with her all of the time. We had to implement boundaries in order to make sure he stayed on task for school and he needed to fund his own social life. But, even our 7 yr old doesn't have a set bedtime. We just go with the flow of the day and when she is tired, either we say time to get ready for bed or she'll ask for her bedtime story bc she wants to go to bed. Just letting it happen naturally still leads to her being in bed most nights before 8-9.

 

We have been all over the place with our Aspie. It is clear to us now that he will not likely ever be completely independent financially, physically, or emotionally. He won't learn to drive (in rural America that is a very self-limiting decision). He won't explore other jobs. (Minimum wage doesn't go very far.) And his anxiety means he needs us there affirming him and helping him adjust/function as an adult. Emotionally he functions like a 12 yr old.

 

We just made a very serious decision in terms of his future. We moved him out of our house 3 yrs ago bc he can be very difficult to live with. He was semi-independent (I paid all of his bills, did his shopping, etc, but he lived in his apt, did his own cooking, laundry, etc.) We moved this summer and had been renting. We discussed his future at length with him and we decided to buy a house with a basement apt. We just closed on the house a week ago. (And this is not your typical basement. It is 50% above grade, big windows, etc.) He is moving back in with us, but we have set boundaries that he is living in his apt.

 

We made the decision bc we have been supplementing his income every month bc he doesn't make enough to cover all of his expenses and have anything left over. He is turning 26 in a few weeks and will have to pay for his own health insurance. We decided that for his future it makes more sense for us to charge him rent here but invest the money for his retirement or emergency medical expenses than pay rent with nothing but an empty future financially for him.

 

Mentally he had to think about it for a while before he was on board with the decision. He initially saw it as a step backward...moving back in with mom and dad. But, it is really just the location. His apt is awesome (the people we bought the house from left their pool table down there, so he has a really amazing space and now a pool table.) I see this decision as giving him more freedom, not less, bc ultimately financially he will be more flexible in what he can do.

 

short version We have to parent the kids in front of us. They are individuals and some require different parenting than others.

Edited December 9, 2017 by 8FillTheHeart

[Nan in Mass]

Derek, if I were you, I would start thinking about which of your family rules you want to be household rules that apply to all adults and which are rules just for children.  Then I would start making sure that the adults (you and your wife) start following those adult rules and start talking about how adults in your house have to follow those rules.  I would try to make the rules all be about household safety and convenience and atmosphere rather than personal safety and convenience and atmosphere.  If you ask my children, they would probably say we don't really have rules.  It all boil down to not doing anything discourteous and not doing anything that endangers other people.  

 

For example, take bedtime.  Although it would certainly be better for your son if he went to sleep early every night, that is a personal decision that you wouldn't make for another adult.  If I were you, I wouldn't make a rule that every adult in the household had to go to sleep at 10pm.  I would, however, have no hesitation in making a rule about having the house quiet after 10pm so that any younger children and other adults can go to sleep then if they want to.  In our house, we leave the entryway light on if an adult is going to be out late and the late one turns it off when they come in.  This prevents anyone who wake in the night from wondering if the late one is home safe.  It is a courtesy.  We all know that staying up late makes you cross and less effective the next day.  There are no rules about staying up late, but even now, in my 50's, my mother will remind me of this if she finds me still up when it is late.  She isn't telling me what to do.  She is just nudging and reminding me.  If I have work that I have to do, I ignore the advice.  If I am just dillydallying, then that nudge is often just what I need to break me out of what I was doing and get myself off to bed.  She doesn't nag or wait to see what I am going to do or expect me to obey her or anything annoying like that.  It is just a quick reminder.

 

One of the hardest things for my children to accept, the thing they fought the most between the ages of 15 and 22, was the knowledge that the decisions they made about themselves affected the whole family.  If they chose to do something risky and died, everyone's lives were going to be ruined.  If they chose to do something immoral, everyone was going to be heartbroken.  Even small decisions affected everyone. They hated that.  We sympathized, told them that we had felt the same way at their age, and told them that that was the disadvantage of having a close, loving family and there wasn't anything we could do about it.  They also hated that everything they did was noticed and contributed to.  This was good because it meant that all their plans worked because they got good advice and help.  It was bad because there wasn't much privacy and when they failed, they failed in public.  At least my family is very very tactful about failures.  Nobody says I told you so.  Everybody pretends they didn't happen.

 

If I were you, I would teach basic risk management to all my children.  If something is highly likely to fail and failure has dire consequences - don't do it.  If something is highly risky and the results of failure aren't too bad - do it.  If something is not likely to fail and failure has dire consequences - think again and only do it if the result of success is really really worth it or the chance of failure is really really low.  If something is unlikely to fail and the results of failure aren't too bad - do it.  Most disagreements happen about the third one.

 

 

Nan

[Sandwalker]

My two are in their 20s (dd just turned 29, gasp!). We had a more laid back style of parenting as well. Dd still had curfews at 16 because she is so social, ds never needed them. We never had that big teen rebellion thing, though dd wore some pretty horrendous black eyeliner at 16 that drove my mom crazy. But here she is, a beautiful nearly 30 year old with no tattoos, whew :D

 

So with the 16 yo, I would sit down and have a discussion. Is he going away to college at 18? If so, I'd definitely let him make more of his own decisions, and up his responsibilities. His food choices, bedtimes, and leisure activities can be his own. He can choose when to do his chores, where to spend his money. I would probably stop controlling his movie, game, and online choices by 17 at the very latest. He needs to learn to do his own laundry and to cook. He needs to learn to self-regulate his sleep, food, work, online, and leisure times before he leaves the nest.

[creekland]

One advantage to having a large family is that my kids learn how to run a household, cook, manage their spending ; do laundry, cleaninging, home maintenance repairs, etc simply as part of daily life. 

 

FWIW, this happens with smaller families too.  The only big time hubby and I traveled by ourselves was on our Anniversary each year.  Usually that was just a one or two night trip.  We were able to leave our boys alone at home while we took this trip when oldest was 15 - youngest was 11.  They handled the farm chores as well as household ones without a problem at all and absolutely loved being "in charge" to do it.  There was one issue we discovered upon our return.  Apparently, young lads don't see the need to shower without mom or dad's suggestion to do it!   :lol:   That issue totally cleared up once young lasses were part of their big picture.  ;)

[J-rap]

ps  I was "that parent" who also freely told my youngest - my ps lad - that if he ever got any permission slip that needed signing, to go ahead and sign my signature so I didn't have to worry about it... 

 

No regrets there either.  He still told us where he was going (if a field trip) or what was going on (if a rated R movie in history class or something), but that was just the sharing we all did/do as a family.  By high school he was old enough to do anything or decide if he wanted to go somewhere with a group.  He definitely didn't need our permission for those things!

 

Even now, as a teacher, I tell kids in my class that they don't need to ask my permission to use the bathroom.  They're old enough to know if they have to go (or just want a 3-5 minute break to walk there and back).  They know the school's rules about signing out/in of a classroom (in case we need proof of who was where, etc).  They sure don't need to ask me about it all.  If they were to abuse the privilege they know they'll get in trouble, but honestly?  That very rarely happens.

 

I used to tell my kids that too.  :)   I remember the first time I told that to one of them, they answered (something like) "Oh yes, I've already been doing that.  I figured you'd want me to."

[Crimson Wife]

I think of it as a process, but more mid-teens to 21/22 (college graduation assuming the student attended straight after high school) rather than our society's "new norm" of extending adolescence to 30 or later.

 

Young adults should ACT like adults IMHO and not overgrown teenagers. DH and I were married 2 weeks after my college graduation and 6 months after his. Not everyone is going to find Mr./Ms. Right in college like we did but I am in favor of a non-patriarchal model of courtship where marriage is the goal rather than casual hookups.

[dereksurfs]

Derek, if I were you, I would start thinking about which of your family rules you want to be household rules that apply to all adults and which are rules just for children.  Then I would start making sure that the adults (you and your wife) start following those adult rules and start talking about how adults in your house have to follow those rules.  I would try to make the rules all be about household safety and convenience and atmosphere rather than personal safety and convenience and atmosphere.  If you ask my children, they would probably say we don't really have rules.  It all boil down to not doing anything discourteous and not doing anything that endangers other people.  

 

For example, take bedtime.  Although it would certainly be better for your son if he went to sleep early every night, that is a personal decision that you wouldn't make for another adult.  If I were you, I wouldn't make a rule that every adult in the household had to go to sleep at 10pm.  I would, however, have no hesitation in making a rule about having the house quiet after 10pm so that any younger children and other adults can go to sleep then if they want to.  In our house, we leave the entryway light on if an adult is going to be out late and the late one turns it off when they come in.  This prevents anyone who wake in the night from wondering if the late one is home safe.  It is a courtesy.  We all know that staying up late makes you cross and less effective the next day.  There are no rules about staying up late, but even now, in my 50's, my mother will remind me of this if she finds me still up when it is late.  She isn't telling me what to do.  She is just nudging and reminding me.  If I have work that I have to do, I ignore the advice.  If I am just dillydallying, then that nudge is often just what I need to break me out of what I was doing and get myself off to bed.  She doesn't nag or wait to see what I am going to do or expect me to obey her or anything annoying like that.  It is just a quick reminder.

 

Nan

 

Nan,

 

I really like the idea of household rules for adults including college age young adults. This makes perfect sense and is something which kids who move off to college often forget. For example playing loud really music might disturb others studying or playing basketball indoors off the walls isn't a good idea.These are some typical behaviors I discovered firsthand while living in my first dorm with some *very* immature college freshman. They were finally free from their parent's rule and now living on their own. That meant they could act as crazy as they wanted to and boy was it fun... for them! Talk about overgrown kids! I couldn't wait to move out of that animal house dorm situation.  :001_rolleyes:

[Tree Frog]

I think of it as a process, but more mid-teens to 21/22 (college graduation assuming the student attended straight after high school) rather than our society's "new norm" of extending adolescence to 30 or later.

 

Young adults should ACT like adults IMHO and not overgrown teenagers. DH and I were married 2 weeks after my college graduation and 6 months after his. Not everyone is going to find Mr./Ms. Right in college like we did but I am in favor of a non-patriarchal model of courtship where marriage is the goal rather than casual hookups.

 

This. It can be tricky for the young adult to handle things by herself, especially when the other party doesn't expect/ won't allow the young adult to handle things. (Thanks, collision center, for not talking to dd who was trying to work with you regarding the damage to her car. No, I don't need to call you before you give her any information. She's the one paying for it. Talk to her when she calls you! And don't be condescending!!) How can they learn if we don't give them the opportunity?!

 

I don't want 25 year old teens hanging around my house. They have lives to live, responsibilities to handle. I'm not a big fan of the word adulting, but it seems to fit. We need to treat them as the young men and women we expect them to grow into.

[G5052]

It's a continuum. Some won't take that up, and that's hard.

 

We went through so much as a family during our homeschool years that mine developed a lot of resiliency and determination that I'm seeing the fruit of. Even with a lot of uncertainty and turmoil in our family this semester, both are pulling straight A's going to finals week. At times they've been more focused than I am. Both are very capable of basic household management too.

 

Next semester my oldest will be at bootcamp and training for the National Guard, something he's been thinking about for awhile. This goes well with career goals and will pay for the last 3-4 semesters of his degree. The parents of several of his friends and his boss have commented that he's far more mature already than most men his age, and I'm sure the Guard will take him up a notch. Obviously not a path for every kid, but I'm pleased he's doing this.

Edited December 10, 2017 by G5052

[Susie in CA]

I agree that most of this process is gradual. Like you, and others, we have always had conversations about what life might look like as an adult. We, too, used to have a more or less set bedtime for a very long time. Around 16 much of this changed gradually. Dss started go to bed later, when they got their license they went out more often and sometimes later, etc. That said the most important thing we talked about was respecting the family as they grow into adults which simply meant that they let us know where they were going and when they would be home. This way we would not need to worry or wait with dinner etc. 

When ds graduated from high school and turned 18 last year he decided to speed up this gradual process and simply asked us what his curfew was now that he was 18 and done with high school. At this point we definitively started to have much more of an adult relationship with ds. We told him he didn't have a curfew and to just let us know what he was doing. That summer he did stay out extremely late a couple of times, but after that not much anymore. Is he an adult to us? Not entirely. We do give a lot of advice, however, that advice comes much more from adult conversations. And, of course, he is not required to follow it. 

 

In short, the process was gradual at first. In the end it was sped up by ds.

[Nan in Mass]

Nan,

 

I really like the idea of household rules for adults including college age young adults. This makes perfect sense and is something which kids who move off to college often forget. For example playing loud really music might disturb others studying or playing basketball indoors off the walls isn't a good idea.These are some typical behaviors I discovered firsthand while living in my first dorm with some *very* immature college freshman. They were finally free from their parent's rule and now living on their own. That meant they could act as crazy as they wanted to and boy was it fun... for them! Talk about overgrown kids! I couldn't wait to move out of that animal house dorm situation.  :001_rolleyes:

 

 

 

Just remember that those adult rules apply to you, too.  If you want your adult children to wear lifejackets, you have to, too.  If you want them to tell you where they are at all times, you have to tell them where you are, too.  We had to keep pointing out that we were doing it too because that wasn't obvious to them. Parents tend to be invisible and young adults are really having to scramble to adjust to their new world and don't have the energy to focus on much else except their half of the equation for awhile.  They are going to mess up a lot in the process of figuring out how to be an adult.  Some rules will still apply (like seatbelts) and some don't (like curfews).  Some of them have to figure out which are which by trail and error, which is scary and annoying for the parents.   And they have a lot they are trying to remember so that  contributes to mistakes.  You just have to assume they are trying their best and do lots of gentle reminding and silent forgiving and be respectful of them and include them as adults in the household discussions and decisions.  Try to find adult things you like to do together to replace the childhood things.  That way, you can continue to enjoy each other's company.

 

Yup - dorms.  Ug.  All I have to do is hear the first few measures of a disco song and my anger boils up.  Still, after all these years!  : )

 

Good luck!

 

Nan

Edited December 11, 2017 by Nan in Mass

[MerryAtHope]

Gradual for the kids and parents here--but "sudden" for the rest of the world! Suddenly no one can talk to mom or dad without their permission, random adults say "hey, you don't have to use Mr/Mrs. any more" (and my kids don't know their first names, LOL!), guys have to register for Selective Service etc... At times my kids have both expressed shock at the night and day differences!

 

But for household stuff, our home is like what many others have expressed. We really don't have (and have never needed) a lot of rules at our house, so there hasn't been a difficult transition in that way (but I would definitely say that the ages of 16-20 involve a lot of transitioning to adult-hood, and we offer as much or as little support and scaffolding as each one needs in order to be successful moving forward.) I consider that preparing for adult-hood and independence is something that began from very young ages. If my kids wanted a different toy in their Happy Meal (which wasn't a frequent treat), they had to go to the counter and ask. If we were touring a museum and they had a question, they had to ask the tour guide--I didn't ask for them.

 

A lot of things that people make rules about, we tend to consider courtesy items--here's how adults who are living together treat each other. My kids tell us when they are going some place, where they'll be and when they'll probably be back--and they call if plans change. We parents do the same. We coordinate calendars and the use of the cars (2 cars, 4 drivers). We do have a rule about the cars--if you see that the gas tank is at 1/4 tank, fill it up! We do have ways of doing things--but we've always talked through the why's, and for the most part are able to respect each other even when opinions and preferences differ. When mistakes or bad decisions happen, we talk through and learn from them.

 

If you have a lot of rules, make sure the teen understands why, and start discussing things now. You want to make sure a young person has a good, solid foundation from which to make decisions.

 

Enjoy this time! Teen and young adult years are really wonderful overall!

[mirabillis]

Background: We've homeschooled them from the very beginning. Though they'll have attended our local CC while in high school. They are probably more sheltered than most teens/tweens. We also probably have more family rules and regiments than most. They have curfews, go to bed at certain times, wake together, we eat meals together, limit internet usage, limit social media, recommend age appropriate movies, books, reading materials, limit types of food they eat including sweets/snacks. We require some form of exercise as apart of their PE. We attend church together and they attend youth group separately. Oh, and we've never had to deal with dating relationships 'yet' of any kind! You get the idea. So now I'm telling my wife we are going to need to treat our son as an adult... soon. She then gives me this strange look like 'what does that even mean!?' Lord have mercy!!!  lol   :D

 

in case it makes you feel better, we have similar philosophies. also homeschooled since the beginning. they have no curfews (we know where they are at all times, and usually they're here at home with us), they have very strict/early bedtimes, they wake when they feel refreshed, we eat our meals together, internet usage is fairly non-existent except school-related, there is no tv and never has been (occasional movies), there is no social media (except eldest is allowed to text), and only in regards to the eldest as he has gotten older, his choice in movies, books, etc has grown a bit more broad as we feel he's mature enough to choose (well except R rated stuff), he helps the others telling us 'that one's not appropriate for them...'. we have little junk food in the house, but don't limit sugar per se... and we are only now encountering dating relationships at 15 1/2 - just hitting the very tippy tippy top of the iceberg. so there!

 

i feel it will be difficult to make that transition, much harder so if the kids stay at home. but even so, those things will need to be thought of even if sending them to a 4-year, as they will be coming home.... i hope in the next 2 1/2 years (age 16-18), we'll figure it all out. :) 

[Nan in Mass]

They grow a lot between 16 and 18. : )

 

Nan

[kroe1]

Your money, your house your rules.

 

One thing that worked for us was not allowing behaviors at a young age that we would have to nix at an older age. For example, we never allowed sleepovers. So, I do not have to worry about my early twenty somethings thinking they can stay out all night. As far as house rules, nothing really changes.

 

In regards to when I see them as adults, I doubt that will ever happen. When I see my 37 yo, for example, I only see the bright, blue-eyed curly haired 3 year old. Lol.

[Dmmetler]

Once I started teaching college, I realized that the main benefit of college was in giving a semi-sheltered transition. The amount of growing in that four years is amazing.

 

I really wish it were more affordable to do the traditional, residential college, live on campus the first year or two and then get an apartment with friends thing.

[Gwen in VA]

How and when kids mature is incredibly kid-dependent.

 

My ds1 lived at home for four years after college. We all survived! :-) It was a good time for bonding, and it helped him get his feet under him. He is now married and living across the country!

 

My ds2 went off to India unaccompanied for two weeks when he was 17. He dropped out of college and has fended for himself since then -- at age 24 he has a wife, a house, many boats, and a dream career. He was on the accelerated track to maturity, which was hard since my husband and I were always playing catch-up!

 

At the same time, my very independent 22yo just had major surgery and spent two weeks (in the middle of her college semester) at home. She has required a HUGE amount of support this year. Sometimes life events get in the way of independence, and our job as parents is to be there for our kids when they need us!

 

Every kid is different, and as parents we need to love each one DIFFERENTLY!

[Joules]

Mine has been gradual.  Like many others here, we weren't a rule-based house.  We've always lived under the "Do Unto Others..." paradigm.  

 

If a switch flipped, it was when he was about 13/14.  He was working for me, and we had hard deadlines.  He really stepped up to the plate, and I treated him like a colleague.  That same year, I ended up with my leg in a cast and was on a cart.  He took on some of the household tasks on his own initiative.  Oddly, we've gone the other way since he's been in college: I've taken on more because he is overwhelmed and only lives here part-time.  

 

There was a funny discussion in a homeschool English class his senior year.  The discussion (related to some book) asked about a time as a teen you defied your parents or didn't do what they told you to.  Ds couldn't think of a time. They joked he was just a perfect kid.  We talked about it when he got home, because he isn't perfect and we definitely have conflict. Really "defying" me didn't make sense in our world.  Neither one of us could remember a time since childhood, that I "told" him to do anything.  I had only "asked" him for years, much like I would dh or a roommate. We had disagreements like adults, albeit pretty emotional ones.  I do have strong opinions at times, but the final decision is his.

 

If there were legal or safety issues, we would definitely have to have rules about living in this house, but he's a good kid.  Common courtesy and "Don't be a jerk" work well enough here.  Any rules apply to all of us.

Edited December 25, 2017 by Joules

[Joules]

Just remember that those adult rules apply to you, too.  If you want your adult children to wear lifejackets, you have to, too.  If you want them to tell you where they are at all times, you have to tell them where you are, too.  We had to keep pointing out that we were doing it too because that wasn't obvious to them. 

 

This is important! I can't think of very many rules that didn't apply the same.  We all wear seat-belts and life-jackets.  We are all on the same phone account so we can see each other's locations, though any of us can choose to turn it off for a bit if we wish.  I have had to remind ds that he can see my location, particularly when he is waiting for me to pick him up. 

[DawnM]

Your money, your house your rules.

 

One thing that worked for us was not allowing behaviors at a young age that we would have to nix at an older age. For example, we never allowed sleepovers. So, I do not have to worry about my early twenty somethings thinking they can stay out all night. As far as house rules, nothing really changes.

 

In regards to when I see them as adults, I doubt that will ever happen. When I see my 37 yo, for example, I only see the bright, blue-eyed curly haired 3 year old. Lol.

 

I am not sure what you mean about sleepovers.  My boys (now 18 and almost 20) went to sleepovers and have had sleepovers, but they don't stay out all night and are respectful when their friends come over about asking me first and making sure their friends leave by whatever time I say they need to leave.  For example, my oldest had a friend over on a weeknight.  I had to get to bed by 10 to get up for work the next day.  His friend left by 10. 

 

And my kids know to let me know where they are and what they are doing.

 

The only time we had an issue was this past September, but I think there was some miscommunication.  DH, Oldest, and I went about 4 hours away to tour a college. We left my 18 year old "in charge."  My 13 year old was at a friend's house that first night we were gone and texted US at 10:30pm to ask if he could spend the night with his friend.  The problem was, we had already gone to bed.  No one got the message until the next morning, and 18 year old called at 8am because he said he went to bed but youngest never came home.

 

We had to talk to youngest and tell him that he HAS to let everyone know by 9pm AND get a response, or the answer is no.

 

But that wasn't entirely his fault, we hadn't set those rules yet and he didn't think it was a big deal.  He knows now that it is.

[DawnM]

For us, it has been a very long (sometime arduous) process.  Oldest has ASD and his therapist says he is 3-4 years behind his peers socially and emotionally.  I think in the last year (he is almost 20) we have seen tremendous growth in many, many areas.  We are thankful.

 

Middle just turned 18 this month and although he is a really nice, caring, respectful young man, he isn't really an "adult" to me yet.  

 

Youngest is 13, but honestly, he is a very mature 13 year old, much more mature than the other 2 were at his age.  He is still my "baby" though.   :biggrinjester:

[8filltheheart]

I am not sure what you mean about sleepovers.

I read her OP and couldn't relate to it bc I am a different sort of parent. (My kids have been having sleepovers since they were little. ;) But that wasn't the main part that didn't resonate.)

 

I distinctly remember the first time as a parent that I could never not see my oldest as anything other that the man he had become and that I had been neglectful in not fully embracing it before. I obviously recognized he was an adult and treated him that way. But it is more than that. I cannot articulate my thoughts well, but it was a mental shift for me as a parent, one I am glad that I was given the opportunity to realize that I needed for me to recognize in my children.

 

For me the moment came when our granddaughter was born very prematurely; our ds was still in college and finances were obviously a serious concern for him, but through it all he was his wife's caring, supportive husband and his dd's worried, loving dad. Throughout the months of neonatal intensive care, he was a wonderful example of a man of character. He was not just my adult child; he was a man.

 

For me there was a difference. Maybe for others there isn't. But I was humbled for not fully recognizing the subtle distinction before then.

Edited December 26, 2017 by 8FillTheHeart