Overwhelmed by My Ten Year Old

[rainbowmama]

Today, she got frustrated by trying to play piano, so she screamed how she f%#$ing hated me and wish I wasn't her mother and destroyed some flowers my seven year old was growing while raging. These fits had declined to a couple times a month, but since we had a new baby almost a month ago, they are back up to several times a week. If it's not piano, it's school or her brothers or chores or whatever. She no longer acts like this for others. Her pediatrician says she'll grow out of this, but after years of this, I've lost hope. She's regained control, but I'm crying in my room. I feel like an awful mother, but I don't enjoy her. I don't know how to handle her. I just wish I knew how to help her control her anger and frustration.

[Hilltopmom]

You're not alone. Btdt.

Seek other help- a counselor, an eval with a developmental pediatrician or a neuropsych. I'd be willing to bet something else is going on with your dd. Could be treatable.

Sorry you're going through this.

[MercyA]

Judging from your username, I'm guessing you're already pretty crunchy?  :) If not, you might try cutting out dyes, preservatives, artificial and "natural" flavors, and flavor enhancers. It made a huge difference here--day and night. See feingold.org or fedup.com.au.

 

:grouphug:

[Anne]

As Hilltopmom suggested, please seek help. This is not normal 10 yo behavior and is unlikely to be something she can "grow out of" without help. I'm willing to bet that these meltdowns are as disturbing to her as they are to you.

 

Hugs,

 

Anne

[gardenmom5]

btdt.  dudeling can make me feel  like a failure on a regular basis -   he's the youngest of five.  and that's after my highly successful daughters.

 

find another provider.  (honestly - I hate to think where dudeling would be if I hadn't fired my pediatrician of 25 YEARS and found someone much better suited to treating him.).

a developmental ped, a counselor, and ped neuro - this is NOT 'normal', and you don't have to wait and see *if* "she'll grow out of it".

 

also consider there could be a diet link - she may simply be over sensitive to something she's eating that is causing her to react.  I knew one kid who could eat most cheese - but if you gave him sharp chedder, he became a totally different child.  and not for the better.

 

eta: I want to assure you, she doesn't like feeling like this either.  

Edited May 30, 2017 by gardenmom5

[heartlikealion]

I'm sorry, OP. I'm not sure how to handle my 9yr old. He's constantly whining about everything we ask him to do. He'll say he needs a break when he's barely done anything. The min. we ask him to do school work or chores he says he has a headache, is tired, lazy, etc. I keep seeing posts on this board where people make suggestions for a developmental ped. Are they common? I'm not the OP but I am curious about how to handle an explosive child as well (and yes, I have The Explosive Child book but I guess I lost my place in it and knew that dh would be difficult to get on board with making a lost of lagging skills).

[Joyofsixreboot]

My dd behaved this way. Please consider a psych eval.

 

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[6wildhorses]

My daughter has sensory processing disorder and meltdowns like this come with the territory. She works with an occupational therapist (OT) and a speech therapist (ST), and they both help with her behavior in different ways. The ST helps develop her expressive language, so she can learn to talk about her feelings. One program you might find helpful is called The Zones of Regulation. My daughter did this program with an OT. This program helps kids identify how they are feeling, so they can learn to regulate themselves. The Alert Program is another one that is frequently used by therapists.

Kids don't just outgrow these behaviors. They need to learn positive coping strategies to deal with conflict and stress, and they need to learn how to express their emotions in a healthy way. I use to be able to provide more comfort and stability to my daughter, but, at about age 10, she started pulling away from me. She wanted to be more independent, so she didn't want to rely on me the same way. Fortunately, our dog is the sweetest and really helps her stay calm and centered when she's having a hard time.

Here's an article about self-regulation that you might find helpful: https://childmind.org/article/can-help-kids-self-regulation/. Rest assured, you are not an awful mom! Some kids just have a really hard time with self-regulation. It's emotionally exhausting for sure, but there is hope. If you google self-regulation, you'll be able to find more articles, games, and activities that can help you help your daughter.

[Selkie]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[amy g.]

I promise that I don't blame everything on food reactions but.....

 

This sounds so familiar to me. My 4th child would rage for hours at a time screaming that she wanted to die and I should hurt her because she hated me and she did NOT come out of my body.

 

I'm not a newbie at this parenting thing but I was scared and afraid she would end up needing to be institutionalized.

 

I posted here and veteran moms all said, "Yep, that sounds like food allergies."

 

So we removed artificial coloring, flavoring, preservatives and grain from her diet and she became a completely different kid.

 

One day, her friend was leaving on a week long vacation and stopped by at the last minute to ask if Dd could join them. We threw some clothes in a bag and off she went. As the car drove away, I realized that I had zero concerns about her behavior. I knew she would be able to adjust and adapt and be a good friend and a good guest. And she was.

 

Just yesterday, that friend called me and said they had gone on a similar diet because of some autoimmune issues. She could not believe how her own daughter's behavior changed. She now has level emotions and can concentrate on one subject for hours instead of 10 minutes at a time.

 

The downside is it is after 3:00 here and I just finished making almond flour pizza for lunch. Eating this way is labor intensive. I won't lie to you.

 

However, I'm so happy that my daughter has gotten the chance to be the responsible, loving person she really is without the influence of allergies which literally made her want to die.

[Tanaqui]

Today, she got frustrated by trying to play piano, so she screamed how she f%#$ing hated me and wish I wasn't her mother and destroyed some flowers my seven year old was growing while raging. These fits had declined to a couple times a month, but since we had a new baby almost a month ago, they are back up to several times a week. If it's not piano, it's school or her brothers or chores or whatever. She no longer acts like this for others. Her pediatrician says she'll grow out of this, but after years of this, I've lost hope. She's regained control, but I'm crying in my room. I feel like an awful mother, but I don't enjoy her. I don't know how to handle her. I just wish I knew how to help her control her anger and frustration.

 

She's been doing this for years, so it's not puberty.

 

The pediatrician does not see her every day at home.

 

I would go back to the pediatrician and demand a referral to a mental health expert. This is not normal behavior, and she's not going to grow out of it without help.

 

As a stopgap, I agree with others who suggest it might be influenced by diet. As a child, I acted a lot like you describe (sans cursing, because I was a real stuck-up snob about that) whenever I had dairy. Maybe other things too, but dairy was the worst.

[JFSinIL]

As Hilltopmom suggested, please seek help. This is not normal 10 yo behavior and is unlikely to be something she can "grow out of" without help. I'm willing to bet that these meltdowns are as disturbing to her as they are to you.

 

Hugs,

 

Anne

 

Had a similar dd, we were walking on eggshells most of the time.  Ended up sending her to public school in fifth grade just to improve our relationship.  Rage attacks are not normal, especially on a regular basis.  A mood stabilizing medication might be in order - you really need to see a professional, as others have noted.  Pediatrician is not going to help - seek a pediatric neuro-psych or neurologist or psychiatrist.  Good luck!.

 

[Farrar]

Ds could freak out a little like that at that age, though it was clearly anxiety fueled for him and generally included a lot of negative self-talk. He would have been screaming that he f&$# hated himself, not me.

 

Agreed with all of the above. The doctor is wrong. Preschoolers often grow out of this behavior. Ten years typically do not, at least not without support. It's usually caused by something medical - like the food reactions mentioned above - or by an underlying issue that needs therapy interventions.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I'm another who would recommend that you look carefully at what she's eating. By age 6, my youngest was talking about how she wished she were dead and how much she hated me, and having violent rages. I went from thinking she'd outgrow it to wondering how someone with so much rage could ever have a normal life :-( She was nearly six before I figured out the problem was food dyes, and then it was another year or so before we sorted it all out (the problem was red, yellows, and caramel coloring---and caramel coloring is in so many seemingly natural things, like sliced breads).

 

For her, there's a delay in reaction of about 24 hours, and she was sick a lot as a kid, so even though we are pretty crunchy, there was the bread, and the kids' medicines, and the lollipop from the bank (it's one lollipop, right?), and the yellow-orange chicken nuggets at the restaurant, and the junk her loving grandmother brought over twice a week, and...

 

You might already be on top of all that, but if not, it's something that's fairly easy to work on yourself while you start looking into appts, referrals, etc. There might always be more to the story, but it might also (maybe, hopefully) be as simple as dietary changes. My DD is still a challenging kid, but NOWHERE near how she was 5 years ago.

 

Many hugs to you as you try to help her.

[38carrots]

:grouphug: For us it was gluten. I know, I know, everyone has their own "magic pill." But I was at the end of my rope, and eliminating gluten did seem like magic. Having a sibling (when she was 7) was a trigger for her as well.

 

She did outgrow the tantrums. She never raged against me or destroyed things, but the tantrums were *intense.* And frequent. Lots of coping strategies modelled at home. We saw a psychotherapist for 3 sessions. And insane waste of money (and trust) and we didn't continue. I felt we could handle this as a family, thought at times I did feel like failure.

 

I am not with the camp who jump at "get professional help" bandwagon when children have behavioral issues. Unless you find an exceptionally talented therapist, they can do more harm than good. I've always felt that as her mother I knew her best, understood her best, and could provide the best guidance and support. (Even if some days I was losing it, overall it was a very steady road to improvement, especially when I look at it in retrospect.)

 

She is a wonderful, sensitive, mature, compassionate, empathetic teenager now.

 

We found these books helpful: https://www.amazon.com/What-When-Your-Temper-Flares/dp/1433801345/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1496194838&sr=8-1&keywords=what+to+do+when+your+temper+flares

 

The anger one and the worry one (as a lot of it was anxiety), especially. But all of them are great.

 

Hang in there. It will get better.

Edited May 31, 2017 by 38carrots

[Artichoke]

Another mom encouraging you to take a look at diet.   One of our children had rages like you described.  For us, it was food dyes, esp yellow #5.

Best wishes as you  find answers!

[SKL]

I'm in a similar boat.  In our case it seems to be getting worse as the school year draws to a close.  Hoping for less anxiety and stress in the summer.  :(

 

The diet theme - I haven't figured that out yet.  I do believe we have issues with sugar, hypoglycemia maybe, but it's not clear.  There are also jealousy issues, anxiety, sensory stuff, possible learning disabilities .... 

 

It doesn't help that I'm not at my best either.  Just tonight I gave myself an F minus minus minus in both parenting and work ....  Not sure what's gonna break us first, her puberty hormones or my menopause ones ....

 

Hang in there, and I hope you find what helps your daughter soon.

[DawnM]

Pediatricians are not the right people to go to for this.

 

Seek a diagnosis.  This is not normal 10 year old behavior.  I have had 3 of them.  Two are neuro-typical and "normal."  They never, ever, ever acted like this.

 

One is not.  He has ASD, would break pencils and throw them across the room, throw books, basically throw a tantrum about anything he was FRUSTRATED about.  He couldn't handle frustration.  We disciplined, which just made it worse, we were at our wits' end.  

 

The diagnosis changed everything.  It helped US cope better, it helped us help him better, and it allowed him to get the proper therapy necessary. 

 

He is a new kid.  Really.  Did it "fix" him?  Nope!  But it allowed him to function better, deal with issues better, and the biggest thing, MOVE FORWARD with his life.

[Bluegoat]

I don't know that I'd say it was abnormal - I think some kids have a hard time controlling their emotions, and it can last a long time.  And at 10, hormones could make it worse, rather than better.

 

But, a coucellor of some kind might be able to give some strategies for her to deal with it better.

 

 

[Meadowlark]

I have a 10 year old, and I think this is extremely abnormal behavior. I would seek help asap.

[heartlikealion]

Pediatricians are not the right people to go to for this.

 

Seek a diagnosis.  This is not normal 10 year old behavior.  I have had 3 of them.  Two are neuro-typical and "normal."  They never, ever, ever acted like this.

 

One is not.  He has ASD, would break pencils and throw them across the room, throw books, basically throw a tantrum about anything he was FRUSTRATED about.  He couldn't handle frustration.  We disciplined, which just made it worse, we were at our wits' end.  

 

The diagnosis changed everything.  It helped US cope better, it helped us help him better, and it allowed him to get the proper therapy necessary. 

 

He is a new kid.  Really.  Did it "fix" him?  Nope!  But it allowed him to function better, deal with issues better, and the biggest thing, MOVE FORWARD with his life.

 

Where did you start?

 

[gardenmom5]

Where did you start?

 

 

I started with my now "Fired" ped. his refusal to help is why he was fired after 25 years of taking my kids to him.  I then talked to other parents - and I learned what I needed to find the appropriate provider WITHOUT my former ped's help.  (and to be fair - I was on the local asd group - and that group of clinics to which he belonged were despised by asd parents.)

 

I got him into our university's child dev center.  the children's hospital also runs a dev center.

I also take him to a ND (who has worked wonders) - and she's referred out to a ped neuro.  though he seems to be responding to an off-label rx. (originally marketed for influenza type a.  it seems to be helping in the one area I was very concerned about and nothing was helping with. - related to capd.)

[Innisfree]

Where did you start?

 

You have some options here.

 

One route is to go through your pediatrician and get a referral to a neuropsychologist or developmental pediatrician. If your ped is receptive, concerned and well-informed, this could be a good route.

 

If your ped is not helpful, you can do some research yourself. Google your town+state+developmental pediatrician, for example, or neuropsychologist. Find some practices, call them, and talk things over. Describe your dc's issues and ask what sort of evaluation they would do. If you suspect particular issues like ASD or sensory or whatever, ask about their experience. Find out about insurance coverage, costs and how long you'll need to wait to get in. Be prepared to drive a few hours to a good evaluator, if you aren't in a major urban area.

 

Many (most?) evaluators will need to have a referral from your ped, which is different from an insurance referral (though you may need that as well). It's just paperwork saying there is reasonable cause for an evaluation. You can tell your ped this is what you want to do, and in all likelihood they will agree.

 

Then just wait for your appointment. In the meantime make notes about your concerns, behaviors you see, and adults who work with your dc in other settings who can fill out forms describing what they see.

 

Hope that helps. A good evaluation can require some effort, but the results are worthwhile.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Innisfree

[Hypatia.]

Removing food dyes helped my child who has outbursts like this, but it still happens. I've taken him to seen a developmental pediatrician (whose favorite dx is ASD, so she wasn't that helpful) and more recently a child psychiatrist. We're still trying to figure out what's going on (DMDD? ODD?) but now at least I have hope, and I don't have that helpless "I've failed" feeling. If your ped won't give you a referral then I agree with the others, find another one.

 

(((hugs))) It's hard. So hard.

[Guest]

This is not normal behaviour. Please seek an evaluation. Start at the developmental pediatrician and go from there.

[DawnM]

Where did you start?

 

 

I googled, I asked people around me, I made some phone calls, including my insurance company.

 

I finally found a local place that does diagnoses for Autism, ADHD, LDs, Tourettes,  you name it.  And they are very reputable.

 

I took him there.  It was a great experience.

[Mimm]

I've been there. :grouphug:  My husband kept wanting me to wait to get her help, and I listened and wish I wouldn't have. 

[PeppermintPattie]

What was your response to her outburst? Were you able to enforce any consequences for her behavior?

[Hilltopmom]

What was your response to her outburst? Were you able to enforce any consequences for her behavior?

If this has been goingo on for years,it's highly likely she's tried the whole consequences thing.

[Hilltopmom]

Just wanted to add,expect that even once you find someone to doan eval,it maybe a6-12 month waiting list and not covered by your health insurance.

Don't let that deter you.

[Tanaqui]

What was your response to her outburst? Were you able to enforce any consequences for her behavior?

 

From her description of how her child is acting out, including the fact that this has been ongoing for years, I strongly suspect that punishment is not going to do a darn thing to improve it. As other people said, the girl herself is probably extremely upset and bewildered by her behavior and inability to control herself.

[Tanaqui]

If this has been goingo on for years,it's highly likely she's tried the whole consequences thing.

 

Yes, in our culture it's the obvious answer to everything. And when it works, that's great. But when it doesn't, boy, it really doesn't.

[wendy not in HI]

For my strong willed difficult child, we quit piano lessons at about that age. :) i also sent her to public school, where she was a dream student! So helpful! Kind to others!! When teachers would tell me those things, I would sometimes go home and cry, because she was nothing like that at home - she used up all of her good at school, or maybe I brought out her rebellious side...

 

I wouldn't say she grew out if it, but I learned how to avoid her triggers and how to encourage her to get the right combination of strenuous exercise and rest/alone time that she needed.

 

And a small warning - she was a difficult and explosive child, but it got worse before it got better. 8th grade was her absolute worst. I didn't think we would survive. She just finished her first year of college and she did awesome. Unfortunately, I've gained 10 pounds in the 3 weeks she's been back home (she's still hard to live with)(I've cut out sugar and started running and am back down 5 pounds and coping better)

 

Hugs to you, mama. This stuff is so hard.

[Pen]

In addition to other ideas above, I suggest a book by Barbara Reed Stitt with a title along the lines of Behavior and Nutrition, and one by Campbell and Saul called The Vitamin Cure for Children. Both take an orthomolecular approach to behavior issues.  

[Pen]

I cannot seem to edit the above: the Stitt book is called FOOD & Behavior