If you would definitely red shirt for ps, would/should you red shirt for hs?

[forty-two]

My practice has been to call my kids whatever grade they'd be in school, while working at their level, whatever it is. So I have a young 5th grader (summer b-day) and an older 2nd grader (fall b-day).

 

My youngest has a late May b-day, and this year we sent him to our church's pre-k (MWF mornings) for social reasons. The director assumed we were red shirting him (since he'd be in K by age), but at the time I figured a play-based pre-k would make a good K for him by my lights, and we'd start 1st grade in hs this coming fall. But now I'm rethinking that - I'm considering quietly calling next year K, instead of 1st grade. He's both young for his grade and young-seeming for his age, and if we were doing ps, I'd red shirt him in a heartbeat. But my hs 1st has always been more like old-style 1st grade (when 1st grade was the first year of formal schooling), and besides I'm doing the same thing with him this coming year no matter what grade I call it, kwim?

 

But we don't live in a vacuum - whether I call next K or 1st affects which SS class he's in (our main source of outside age peers) and whether he graduates at newly 18 or newly 19. Both my girls have had troubles learning to read, and it's a little uncomfy to have a totally non-reading 1st grader (and a lot uncomfy to have a definitely-not-a-reader-yet 2nd grader, and that was my old-for-her-grade girl - I was very thankful to have the extra time with her). But both girls were non-reading 1st graders and it worked out well enough (but often stress-inducing along the way). And I delayed formal math with the girls till around age 8 (so 3rd for dd10 and 2nd for dd8), and I don't necessarily regret it, but as dd10 is coming up on middle school math and starting pre-algebra, I'm coming to realize that outside standards for when to do what *do* matter to me as a hs'er a lot more than I thought when she was younger. Dd8's going to be closer to grade level just because she's older for her grade - and I now realize that that absolutely makes some things easier. So it seems that giving ds5.5 time helps even wrt hs.

 

Anyway, what I'm trying to think through is this: if I would definitely, without a doubt, red shirt ds5.5 for ps - does that say anything about whether I should red shirt ds5.5 for hs?

[MamaWho]

I am in a similar situation.  My DD turned 5 over last July, so she should have gone into kindergarten, but she was not ready to read, and was definitely not emotionally ready.  This is my first year homeschooling her big brother, and it was meant to be a trial year, so I wasn't ready to make any kind of commitment with her.  So, I put her in a private, church based, transitional kindergarten.  They do kindergarten work, but at a very slow pace.  Most kids can read cvc words by the end, and math is probably about half speed as well.  It has been a great fit for her, and she has matured a lot, and is definitely mature enough for kindergarten now.  

To complicate matters, reading started to click for her back in December, so I've been teaching her to read in the afternoon.  She quite possibly will be at a first grade level by the start of next school year.

 

So next year, I'll have a 6 year old who can read, but really needs kindergarten math still.  I think most homeschoolers would call her first grade as she can probably catch up at some point.  She is just so emotionally young though.  I think she needs to be called a kindergartener for church and co-op reasons. So I guess I am red-shirting my homeschooler.  I can always bump her up a grade later if I need to.

[Ellie]

My practice has been to call my kids whatever grade they'd be in school, while working at their level, whatever it is. So I have a young 5th grader (summer b-day) and an older 2nd grader (fall b-day).

 

My youngest has a late May b-day, and this year we sent him to our church's pre-k (MWF mornings) for social reasons. The director assumed we were red shirting him (since he'd be in K by age), but at the time I figured a play-based pre-k would make a good K for him by my lights, and we'd start 1st grade in hs this coming fall. But now I'm rethinking that - I'm considering quietly calling next year K, instead of 1st grade. He's both young for his grade and young-seeming for his age, and if we were doing ps, I'd red shirt him in a heartbeat. But my hs 1st has always been more like old-style 1st grade (when 1st grade was the first year of formal schooling), and besides I'm doing the same thing with him this coming year no matter what grade I call it, kwim?

 

But we don't live in a vacuum - whether I call next K or 1st affects which SS class he's in (our main source of outside age peers) and whether he graduates at newly 18 or newly 19. Both my girls have had troubles learning to read, and it's a little uncomfy to have a totally non-reading 1st grader (and a lot uncomfy to have a definitely-not-a-reader-yet 2nd grader, and that was my old-for-her-grade girl - I was very thankful to have the extra time with her). But both girls were non-reading 1st graders and it worked out well enough (but often stress-inducing along the way). And I delayed formal math with the girls till around age 8 (so 3rd for dd10 and 2nd for dd8), and I don't necessarily regret it, but as dd10 is coming up on middle school math and starting pre-algebra, I'm coming to realize that outside standards for when to do what *do* matter to me as a hs'er a lot more than I thought when she was younger. Dd8's going to be closer to grade level just because she's older for her grade - and I now realize that that absolutely makes some things easier. So it seems that giving ds5.5 time helps even wrt hs.

 

Anyway, what I'm trying to think through is this: if I would definitely, without a doubt, red shirt ds5.5 for ps - does that say anything about whether I should red shirt ds5.5 for hs?

 

It would not occur to me to redshirt a child anyway, but I would definitely not redshirt a child whose birthday is in May. August, maybe, but not May. I'm so thankful that no one thought that I was young for my grade because of my July birthday, and Mr. Ellie is glad no one redshirted him for his September birthday (in a state where the cut-off was December 2).

 

I strongly believe in referring to homeschooled children by the grades they would be in if they were in school, regardless of the children's maturity or academic achievement. Over the last 30 years, I have consulted with many, many people, IRL as well as on-line, and I have heard more than one story of someone who redshirted or otherwise messed around with their children's "grade levels" when they were young, and it came back to bite them when the children were older. And I would not want to graduate a child a year later than his age peers.

 

Grade level has no real meaning for homeschoolers, other than knowing where to place the children in activities which group children by grade level rather than age or date of birth. I see no reason to hold hsers back because of "early" dates of birth. There will be children of all age ranges in their "grade levels."

[mamamoose]

Well I did redshirt my September birthday kid and I know he never would have made it a grade ahead of where he is, and honestly, I don't see what difference it makes in the long run anyway. He has issues, so maybe that's why I feel so strongly the way I do, but he was not emotionally mature and he wasn't ready to read...math came easy but who cares? Looking back on my life, I couldn't tell you who was old and who was young for their grade and had I not graduated when I did maybe I would have had more maturity to handle some complicated life situations that came up at the ripe old age of 18.5. I think you should call it whatever grade works for now and continue that grade and who cares? Honestly...

Edited March 24, 2017 by mamamoose

[luuknam]

If I would definitely red-shirt for PS, then yeah, I think I'd red-shirt for homeschool. That said, I'd be very unlikely to red-shirt a late May b-day - that's a full 6 months before the cut-off here (and 7 months before the NYC cut-off). 

 

FWIW, I did not red-shirt my special needs August birthday kid who was behind in several things in a state with iirc an Oct 1st cut-off (he attended PS from PreK3-2nd), and I did not red-shirt my kid born less than 2 weeks before the Dec 1st cut-off either.

[forty-two]

It's a sept 1 cut-off here, and fwiw the preschool director acted like putting him in pre-k instead of k this year was perfectly reasonable given his b-day (which is practically a summer b-day, plus he was born early - his due date was solidly in the summer months). Wrt his pre-k class, he's the oldest, but it's only a one year spread - he's a little less than a year older than the youngest kid. There are a ton of fall birthdays, some spring, and no summer birthdays.

 

Wrt redshirting ps, I'd feel almost forced to - K is extremely academic here, and he simply was not ready for a full-day academic K last Sept. Going to 1st grade without having had K (assuming they'd allow you to - the previous state we lived in required K to enter 1st) would be like skipping a full grade. He simply does not know all the things he'd need to know to be in ps 1st here.

 

But that part, at least, doesn't matter wrt hs, as I'm going to teach him the exact same thing this coming year no matter what grade we call it ;).

Edited March 24, 2017 by forty-two

[forty-two]

Thinking about it, the reason we'd definitely red-shirt for ps - in fact, *have already* red-shirted wrt ps - has a lot to do with ps expectations being developmentally inappropriate wrt ds (and maybe developmentally inappropriate for typical 5yos).

 

And the question is, I guess, whether ds can "catch up" to the ps standards at some point (in which case, hs while calling him his age grade), or whether the mismatch is likely to continue most/all of the way through (in which red-shirting is best). A related question is the cost of choosing "wrong" - of red shirting when he catches up, or not red shirting when he never catches up. Plus, I suppose, the opportunity costs of not being with age peers and age-level expectations and not being pushed to excel with age mates (if red shirted), or constantly being behind "his peers" who aren't really his peers because they are older in a way that counts (if not red shirted).

 

Right now, it seems easier to fix red shirting by skipping him up to age grade, than to fix not red shirting by retaining. And since I haven't the faintest idea how long the mismatch will last, it seems better to go with the option that is easier to correct if needed, kwim?

Edited March 24, 2017 by forty-two

[Alte Veste Academy]

My youngest son has a May birthday as well. I started him according to the calendar, working at his level just as I do with my other two kids. We don't do formal Kindergarten here though, and hours are kept short in the early grades.

 

Academically, he is on target, but he's always been young for his age. It's hard to explain. He feels it too. This year, I'm officially red shirting him. We've been calling this year 4th and a half, and he is happy with that. I look at him and no way, no how is he a 6th grader next year. When I was talking to a friend about it, I thought about how arbitrary the school year cutoff dates are. My three kids are equally spaced (a difference of just 10 days), yet my two oldest are officially separated by two grades and my two youngest are separated by one grade. It should be the opposite, if anything, based on my kids' needs. I refuse to hold him to a higher standard because of those arbitrary dates anymore.

 

Plus, I can easily advance him later if he suddenly matures.

[kolamum]

Unless it's mandatory to state it I wouldn't bother giving a grade, much less telling the child. My kids had no idea what grade they were in until about 7th or 8th grade. They weren't generally asked expect by the occasional family member {always the same one.} In our little area grades are also double.. so for instance the little school across the road has grades 4/5 in one room 2/3 in another, etc. I've never hesitated, when asked by the state, to use a double grade just like that. They never bat an eye at it & it works! :)

[2ndGenHomeschooler]

I have 3 kids with late enough birthdays to have considered red-shirting if they went to ps (June, September, November). Our cut-off is December 31. If I had sent them to school I probably wouldn't have even considered red-shirting the girls (June and September) although I probably would have regretted that with September girl - at least until 4th grade when she finally started reading. DS7 with the November birthday most definitely would have been red-shirted. No way would I have sent him to full day academic K at 4yo.

 

As it is, I HS so I just call them the grade they could be in. I have a young, 7yo, 2nd grader who doesn't really read yet but we're working on it. I'm hopeful that this fall I'll have a 7yo 3rd grader who *does* read. If not, oh well. Our plan, even for our March girl, is to keep open the option of a "high school prep" year in between 8th and 9th grades. Adding this extra year would be a decision we'd make with them and based on their goals as well as maturity level and ability level. I honestly don't see us using it except maybe with DS but he's still much too young to know for sure. It's just an option we keep on the table. So much can change in the early years. My younger two may be a bit "behind" now but they could easily catch up.

 

We haven't had any issues with DS being a young, not reading, 2nd grader. Most of the activities we participate in are age, not grade, based (including Sunday School). He's a big kid, taller even than some 10 and 11 year olds we know. He's pretty physically coordinated and can keep up with the bigger kids. He also acts older than many other 7yo we know, although he has his "young" moments. Even when he's having a young day it doesn't matter much as he's usually the youngest kid as most of our activities anyway and people expect him to act younger than anyone else. The only issues we've had are people having higher expectations because he's so big for his age and they forget how young he is.

[snowbeltmom]

It's a sept 1 cut-off here, and fwiw the preschool director acted like putting him in pre-k instead of k this year was perfectly reasonable given his b-day (which is practically a summer b-day, plus he was born early - his due date was solidly in the summer months). Wrt his pre-k class, he's the oldest, but it's only a one year spread - he's a little less than a year older than the youngest kid. There are a ton of fall birthdays, some spring, and no summer birthdays.

 

Wrt redshirting ps, I'd feel almost forced to - K is extremely academic here, and he simply was not ready for a full-day academic K last Sept. Going to 1st grade without having had K (assuming they'd allow you to - the previous state we lived in required K to enter 1st) would be like skipping a full grade. He simply does not know all the things he'd need to know to be in ps 1st here.

 

But that part, at least, doesn't matter wrt hs, as I'm going to teach him the exact same thing this coming year no matter what grade we call it ;).

 

Based on what you have written here, I would redshirt him as it sounds like his peers were also redshirted considering there are no summer birthday kiddos in his class. 

 

[8filltheheart]

I wouldn't worrry about anything other than the child in front of you. I held back my current 5th grader who has an end of July birthday. She always did things late. She didn't know her colors at 4, etc. She just always seemed to lag where her siblings had been at the same age.

 

Fast forward to today. It was a good decision. She is a solid 5th grader, but she would be a struggling 6th grader. She is dyslexic like her brothers, so spelling is a struggle which in turn impacts writing. There is so much less stress keeping her plodding forward at this pace than if I had pushed her forward to stay on age grade level. Zero regret.

[mamamoose]

Thinking about it, the reason we'd definitely red-shirt for ps - in fact, *have already* red-shirted wrt ps - has a lot to do with ps expectations being developmentally inappropriate wrt ds (and maybe developmentally inappropriate for typical 5yos).

 

And the question is, I guess, whether ds can "catch up" to the ps standards at some point (in which case, hs while calling him his age grade), or whether the mismatch is likely to continue most/all of the way through (in which red-shirting is best). A related question is the cost of choosing "wrong" - of red shirting when he catches up, or not red shirting when he never catches up. Plus, I suppose, the opportunity costs of not being with age peers and age-level expectations and not being pushed to excel with age mates (if red shirted), or constantly being behind "his peers" who aren't really his peers because they are older in a way that counts (if not red shirted).

 

Right now, it seems easier to fix red shirting by skipping him up to age grade, than to fix not red shirting by retaining. And since I haven't the faintest idea how long the mismatch will last, it seems better to go with the option that is easier to correct if needed, kwim?

For whatever it's worth, none of my kids were academically ready going into kindergarten for most public school. We have no preschool available within 70 miles and I did do some preschool but it wasn't important because their peers wouldn't have it so there was no point in them being way ahead. My oldest is 11 and reads at an adult level. So it didn't hurt her at all. Ds has dyslexia and is in 3rd grade, could be in 4th, and reads 2nd grade level. My 1st grader is reading at the same level. I think we spend all this time trying to meet standards (and grade level is a standard) in the world and I don't think it's necessary. Does it really ever matter in the long run if a homeschool kid is 19 when he graduates? Maybe I'm missing something, but none of my kids are going to anything but a state college anyway, if they even go. I think college is overrated. Anyway, maybe that's not the question you're really pursuing here...

[jrhodes]

I would red shirt my older son in a heartbeat (mid August birthday and quite possibly the first day of school around here). He is 3 now and seems about average overall, but I would say not emotionally mature, so for that reason I would hold him back. I won't red shirt him for homeschool though because I can work on his level. For public I would be worried mostly about emotional maturity, sitting skill (very active kid), and then the fact here - K is really 1st in work which I don't agree with (one reason we are homeschooling). I can work at his level though and with his needs so I see no reason to 'hold' him back when he's home. Maybe he's doing some prek work, maybe some kindergarten - but I call him kindergarten if someone asks. We don't have to report grade level to the state so it doesn't matter in the long run and for activities it's usually based on birthday over grade level (except for camp stuff) and I usually ask if he can go with the slightly older kids because he is so physically active and gifted there. Only exception being he is in gymnastics with the slightly younger kids now because he still doesn't want to do activity by himself and isn't potty trained yet (grr!)

 

For my younger son with a May birthday it's unknown, but he's still so little. At only nearly 2 who knows, since I won't automatically do it like I knew I would with my older son. He does have speech issues so I might if those continue, but if he catches up - unlikely since May is pretty normal and gives them more maturity time then an August/September birthday. 

[73349]

Since he'd have a summer bday if born on time and seems young for age, yes, I'd red-shirt him now (and then skip a later grade if it seems necessary).

 

I had no issues either as a 4yo in K or a 17yo in college (Dec. bday), but I've always been old for my age. That seems to be common for girls and much less common for boys.

[That70'sLisa]

My youngest son has a May birthday as well. I started him according to the calendar, working at his level just as I do with my other two kids. We don't do formal Kindergarten here though, and hours are kept short in the early grades.

 

Academically, he is on target, but he's always been young for his age. It's hard to explain. He feels it too. This year, I'm officially red shirting him. We've been calling this year 4th and a half, and he is happy with that. I look at him and no way, no how is he a 6th grader next year. When I was talking to a friend about it, I thought about how arbitrary the school year cutoff dates are. My three kids are equally spaced (a difference of just 10 days), yet my two oldest are officially separated by two grades and my two youngest are separated by one grade. It should be the opposite, if anything, based on my kids' needs. I refuse to hold him to a higher standard because of those arbitrary dates anymore.

 

Plus, I can easily advance him later if he suddenly matures.'re doing the same with my ds11. This year is 6A, next year is 6B.

 

 

Same here with ds11. This year is 6A, and next year is 6B.

 

I wish we had waited a year in K, and one of my reasons IS Sunday school/youth group. DS will fit in much better with the (generally) lower aged group socially. (And I was not amused in a lower grade when one of his youth leaders asked ds to read aloud and then "critiqued" his below-grade-level reading skills to me.)

 

Since it seems the main reason to "label a grade" as a hs is outside activities, I'd base it on that . So, how does your ds fit in with the current group he is with for pre-K and Sunday school? Is he far ahead socially/maturity-wise? Does he seem to relate well to that group?  If so, I'd be inclined to red-shirt.

 

 

And yes, if he advances leaps and bounds, you can always "skip" 8th, which is easier than retaining.

[TracyP]

I red shirted my August b-day kiddo. He is in 3rd grade now, and so far I have no doubt that it was the best decision. The only downside has been that my ds looks much older than his peers because he is tall. However, at almost 5 feet, his height would stand out even if he was in 4th.

 

Right now, it seems easier to fix red shirting by skipping him up to age grade, than to fix not red shirting by retaining. And since I haven't the faintest idea how long the mismatch will last, it seems better to go with the option that is easier to correct if needed, kwim?

 

Yes, this has been my line of thinking. Skipping my ds a grade will be easy if that ever seems like the best choice. Holding a kid back can be really tough on them sometimes. When in doubt, why not start with the younger grade in mind?

[maize]

Yes I do red shirt at home if I would red shirt in school.

 

The nice thing at home is the child can easily work at their own pace, including accelerating in later years if they are ready and want to.

[Wheres Toto]

My oldest, who has an April birthday, was always one of the youngest in her classes at school so I don't think red-shirting Spring birthday boys is that uncommon these days.

 

My son has an August birthday.  When he "graduated" from Early Intervention at 4 they told us to not send him to kindergarten until he was 6.  He was ahead academically but "behind" socially/behaviorally.  It's basically what led us to homeschooling.   I CALL him the age he would be according to the legal cut-offs, so a grade ahead of what he'd be in public school.  He is handling the work at that level without any problem.  

[Zoo Keeper]

I wouldn't worry about anything other than the child in front of you. I held back my current 5th grader who has an end of July birthday. She always did things late. She didn't know her colors at 4, etc. She just always seemed to lag where her siblings had been at the same age.

 

Fast forward to today. It was a good decision. She is a solid 5th grader, but she would be a struggling 6th grader. She is dyslexic like her brothers, so spelling is a struggle which in turn impacts writing. There is so much less stress keeping her plodding forward at this pace than if I had pushed her forward to stay on age grade level. Zero regret.

 

I have this child, too, only mine's a boy. I wish I had held him back when entering K at home.  He had some "lag" that I assumed he would grow out of. 

 

Nope.

 

We took two years to finish up his second grade work, still keeping him in second grade, and I don't regret it at all.  He is in sixth grade now, and I am so glad he has had the gift of time to continue to build his skills in the 3 R's before high school.  He is my slow and steady guy, and no amount of wishful thinking on my part is going to change that aspect of how he learns. 

[Hunter]

I'm in a rush, and hope later to come back and properly read all of this thread, but...I'm not sure that is going to be possible, so....

 

Red-shirting works better for higher income than lower income. When applying for a job, students in older grades, students graduated from high-school, and officially college freshman instead of dual enrolled high schoolers earn a larger salary and are offered better jobs.

 

For multiple reasons, low income people do not red-shirt for PS at anywhere near the frequency of higher income families.

 

If a family is solidly higher-income, red shirting can be of benefit. Low-income families have to be super careful not to keep up with the Jonses in this practice.

 

I'll try and read and post more later.

[Bluegoat]

Here we register homeschoolers, and generally if they ever go into ps that dictates at what level.

 

So, I register them for the grade that I actually would have sent them to school for. Two kids I redshirted, and I registered them for K the later year, one I didn't and so I registered her the earlier year.

 

In all cases, I did our homeschool work at our own pace, including, with the two I waited to register, some work in the year before they were actually registered as students. 

 

 

[Bluegoat]

If I would definitely red-shirt for PS, then yeah, I think I'd red-shirt for homeschool. That said, I'd be very unlikely to red-shirt a late May b-day - that's a full 6 months before the cut-off here (and 7 months before the NYC cut-off). 

 

FWIW, I did not red-shirt my special needs August birthday kid who was behind in several things in a state with iirc an Oct 1st cut-off (he attended PS from PreK3-2nd), and I did not red-shirt my kid born less than 2 weeks before the Dec 1st cut-off either.

 

Well, I kept my son back an extra year, and that was actually almost a full year.  OUr cut off date is the end of December, and his birthday is early January.

 

We still did some work at home, but he was clearly to me not ready to begin reading,  he was still not that easy to understand to those who didn't know him, he tended to lose his temper when he became tired, and became frustrated with attempts to help him improve work.  This year he's a K who turned 7 in January, and he's picking up reading much faster than a lot of K kids do, but it's really the first year I could possibly imagine him in a school setting all day.

 

He's just always been a really late developing kid.

[Bluegoat]

I'm in a rush, and hope later to come back and properly read all of this thread, but...I'm not sure that is going to be possible, so....

 

Red-shirting works better for higher income than lower income. When applying for a job, students in older grades, students graduated from high-school, and officially college freshman instead of dual enrolled high schoolers earn a larger salary and are offered better jobs.

 

For multiple reasons, low income people do not red-shirt for PS at anywhere near the frequency of higher income families.

 

If a family is solidly higher-income, red shirting can be of benefit. Low-income families have to be super careful not to keep up with the Jonses in this practice.

 

I'll try and read and post more later.

 

I'm not seeing why you think it wouldn't be advantageous for lower income families?

 

I know that in many cases it doesn't make sense because f childcare costs at school starting, and there are cultural differences around education.

 

But I can't see how that translates to it being an academic disadvantage.

[forty-two]

I'm in a rush, and hope later to come back and properly read all of this thread, but...I'm not sure that is going to be possible, so....

Red-shirting works better for higher income than lower income. When applying for a job, students in older grades, students graduated from high-school, and officially college freshman instead of dual enrolled high schoolers earn a larger salary and are offered better jobs.

For multiple reasons, low income people do not red-shirt for PS at anywhere near the frequency of higher income families.

If a family is solidly higher-income, red shirting can be of benefit. Low-income families have to be super careful not to keep up with the Jonses in this practice.

I'll try and read and post more later.

  

I'm not seeing why you think it wouldn't be advantageous for lower income families?

 

I know that in many cases it doesn't make sense because f childcare costs at school starting, and there are cultural differences around education.

 

But I can't see how that translates to it being an academic disadvantage.

I was wondering the same. (And also wondering whether our right-at-the-median income qualified or not - it's not high, but it's not low, either. Idk how we are going to pay for college, but we aren't paycheck to paycheck, either.) You talked about older students and graduated students being able to get better jobs: did you mean that the way red shirting delays graduation by a year, pushes back chances to get a job by a year - that lower income families can't afford that delay in "ability to meaningfully join the workforce"?

[Farrar]

I'm not seeing why you think it wouldn't be advantageous for lower income families?

 

I know that in many cases it doesn't make sense because f childcare costs at school starting, and there are cultural differences around education.

 

But I can't see how that translates to it being an academic disadvantage.

 

I think it's that, well, as you acknowledge, low income families don't have the money to pay for an additional year of child care. So they're less likely to redshirt for that reason. But also, even if they have the human resources (a parent or grandparent home anyway who can do the childcare), then they're more likely to come under suspicion for educational neglect and more likely to be intimidated by "the system." And if there's a lower income old for grade kid in a classroom, they're more likely to be assumed to be there because they were held back by the system, not by parents looking to give them an advantage. The cultural expectations are just really different. Even in the community, a kid who stays home when they're old enough for kindy may face suspicion or other negative emotions and views while a higher income family may get accolades from their community for looking out for their kid.

 

I think it's probably hard to know for sure... but I can see how those things could hurt a redshirted lower income kid even while helping an upper income kid.

[Jackie]

I'm assuming you don't have to register as an official grade level with your state, and this is just for "personal use"?

 

If so, yes. I did the opposite - I would have advocated for acceleration in public school, so we called DD K starting at age 4. Everything is adjustable down the line if we feel we made a mistake. However, it honestly doesn't make much difference to us. She usually answers the question of what grade she's in with "I'm homeschooled; I'm ___ years old." Because of her asynchronicity, we tend to avoid most grade-leveled groups/outsourcing anyway.

Edited March 24, 2017 by Jackie

[arliemaria]

We did lots of testing this past year for Robby who is 7 almost 8.  To receive services for dyslexia at the ps they wanted us to enroll him full time as a first grader.  His reading may be first grade level but other areas were way above that.  I couldn't understand him sitting in a first grade classroom all day, but that is why we are homeschoolers in the first place.  

 

Another thing to consider is if you are hs and red shirt... that doesn't mean your child has to stay at the same speed for grade progression for the next 11 years.  You may skip third grade or sixth or something else in that line.  Kids do have leaps sometimes in their understanding or abilities.

 

I was so done with high school at 17.  I graduated on my actual 18th birthday.  I cannot imagine being 19 in high school.  (I had all these thoughts about the same topic six months ago with my son, but truly it is a different game altogether as a homeschooler.)

[Jess4879]

It would not occur to me to redshirt a child anyway, but I would definitely not redshirt a child whose birthday is in May. August, maybe, but not May. I'm so thankful that no one thought that I was young for my grade because of my July birthday, and Mr. Ellie is glad no one redshirted him for his September birthday (in a state where the cut-off was December 2).

 

I strongly believe in referring to homeschooled children by the grades they would be in if they were in school, regardless of the children's maturity or academic achievement. Over the last 30 years, I have consulted with many, many people, IRL as well as on-line, and I have heard more than one story of someone who redshirted or otherwise messed around with their children's "grade levels" when they were young, and it came back to bite them when the children were older. And I would not want to graduate a child a year later than his age peers.

 

Grade level has no real meaning for homeschoolers, other than knowing where to place the children in activities which group children by grade level rather than age or date of birth. I see no reason to hold hsers back because of "early" dates of birth. There will be children of all age ranges in their "grade levels."

 

I feel like this is contradictory.  If a child starts school in 2016, those are his peers.  If he starts in 2017, those are his peers.  Because there is a range of ages in every grade, he isn't going to know any different.  He might be the youngest if he's redshirted.  He might be the oldest if he isn't.  I don't think this in any way is equal to "holding back."  The child is going to be learning, he just might not be in a classroom.

 

The fact that redshirting even exists is just proof that the gov't-created cutoffs are not going to work for every child.  I was a summer birthday in a December cutoff district.  I was the 2nd youngest in my class and always felt younger and immature compared to my classmates.  I graduated at 17 and was not at all ready to leave home and go to university.  I had SO, SO, SO many people comment when I took a year off and worked.  I was made to feel less-than because I didn't go to uni right away.  My other classmate, who was two months younger than me felt the same way.  She was pushed into university and flunked out her first year and struggled to go back.  So starting at the cut-offs isn't a guarantee of a positive experience.   

[Farrar]

My kids meet their cutoff by three days. They have an early fall birthday. The year above them, they would have met the cutoff by several months though, as it was changed for their incoming year (and many exceptions were granted for their year). It was so not on my radar at the time so I don't know for sure what I would have done, but if I were deciding now and had to send them to school, I'd probably redshirt them. It would not occur to me to redshirt a kid with a spring birthday. To me, that's pushing it, honestly. But that's just my own opinion. And it obviously depends on the kid.

 

But I don't regret having left them in their "proper" grade for homeschooling. I mean, it really doesn't matter. And if they ever had to go to school, we could adjust things if it was needed. I'm hoping they take a gap year later on. And if I ever get a little freaked out that they're "behind" somehow, I often mentally readjust them to be the grade below, take a deep breath, and let it go.

 

Which is not to say I think you have to leave them in the proper grade. You can do whatever you want. But I haven't found it to be a big deal, even with academically average kids.

[Farrar]

I'm assuming you don't have to register as an official grade level with your state, s this is just for "personal use"?

 

We do have to register a grade. I'm pretty sure that's a common requirement in states with notification or testing.

 

We don't have to test. If we did, that might affect my view. So I guess that's important to note.

[forty-two]

I'm assuming you don't have to register as an official grade level with your state, and this is just for "personal use"?

Yep.

 

It's interesting how people are viewing his (really, really) late May b-day as a "spring" b-day, having more in common with March and April than June and July, when I've always viewed it as basically a summer b-day. It's after school lets out, it's just a week before my definitely-a-summer-bday oldest's bday, and as I said, he was born early and his due date was solidly in the summer. It doesnt feel springy at all to me.

[cintinative]

I didn't read the other posts, but based on our experience, no, I would not have red-shirted my oldest if we were doing homeschool. I would have started kindergarten and just taken a slower pace. We red-shirted him because our only public school option for K was full-day and I didn't think it was appropriate to put a 4 turning 5 year old in a full-day K program.  We ended up doing a Young 5's preschool that year, and K when he was 5 turning 6.  I have some regrets about that K year but that is another thread.  =)

 

ETA: birthday in mid-Sept, cut off for school was Sept. 30th

 

Edited March 24, 2017 by cintinative

[Arcadia]

But we don't live in a vacuum - whether I call next K or 1st affects which SS class he's in (our main source of outside age peers) and whether he graduates at newly 18 or newly 19.

...

Anyway, what I'm trying to think through is this: if I would definitely, without a doubt, red shirt ds5.5 for ps - does that say anything about whether I should red shirt ds5.5 for hs?

My kids went to public school and we didn't redshirt DS12 whose birthday is just before the December cutoff. My DS11 missed cutoff by a few days and was the oldest in class since redshirt is rare in our nearby public schools here. The private k-5/8 schools we looked at have the same cutoff as the state (Dec 2nd when my kids enter K). It was easy to request and get a grade skip for my DS11 when he was in 2nd, long process but easy, just lots of check the box procedure.

 

If you are going to redshirt for PS then redshirt for homeschool because of consistency with outside activities that use grade levels.

 

My kids attended library events and YMCA summer events that went by grade level. I requested for my younger to attend the higher grade level event for all the events he was interested in before the grade skip. We are regulars so it wasn't an issue.

 

The only other events that go by grade level that my kids attended were math competitions and science fair competitions. My DS11 would have done better (academically) without a grade skip but he wanted to be grade skip knowing that he would no longer be near the top for grade level.

 

ETA:

For social reasons, DS11 behaves better with older people than with younger ones consistently. It is stark enough that his public school teachers noticed how much better he behave with kids older than him or with adults.

Edited March 24, 2017 by Arcadia

[Guest]

I wouldn't think of it that way.

 

I did:

 

6= kinder

7=1st

8=2nd

9=3rd

10=4th

11=5th

12=6th

13=7th

14=8th

15=9th

16=10th

17=11th

18=12th

 

I mean, is that really redshirting? Starting kindy at 6 years old? I know it may seem like it, but dang I don't think most 4 year olds belong in kindergarten, and few5 year olds do homeschool or not and able to  or not.

 

And yes, I start making the distinction on their birthday. I school all year and work where they are any way. It's not going to matter in any sense until high school, if then.

[Farrar]

Yep.

 

It's interesting how people are viewing his (really, really) late May b-day as a "spring" b-day, having more in common with March and April than June and July, when I've always viewed it as basically a summer b-day. It's after school lets out, it's just a week before my definitely-a-summer-bday oldest's bday, and as I said, he was born early and his due date was solidly in the summer. It doesnt feel springy at all to me.

 

Well, to be fair, I'd also think of a June birthday as not something I would consider redshirting for... My kids have a late September birthday in a not-a-state with an end of September cutoff. Most places are Sept 1... but I still would think it's really the July and August kids where it makes a small difference. Which is not to say that kids won't benefit from it. I just get... I don't know... by May, we're basically saying that a full third of the kids in the eligible range should maybe be redshirted. One out of every three kids. And I'm not really cool with that. But, again, personally. Everyone should do what they're going to do.

Edited March 24, 2017 by Farrar

[JudoMom]

It would not occur to me to redshirt a child anyway, but I would definitely not redshirt a child whose birthday is in May. August, maybe, but not May. I'm so thankful that no one thought that I was young for my grade because of my July birthday, and Mr. Ellie is glad no one redshirted him for his September birthday (in a state where the cut-off was December 2).

 

I strongly believe in referring to homeschooled children by the grades they would be in if they were in school, regardless of the children's maturity or academic achievement. Over the last 30 years, I have consulted with many, many people, IRL as well as on-line, and I have heard more than one story of someone who redshirted or otherwise messed around with their children's "grade levels" when they were young, and it came back to bite them when the children were older. And I would not want to graduate a child a year later than his age peers.

 

Grade level has no real meaning for homeschoolers, other than knowing where to place the children in activities which group children by grade level rather than age or date of birth. I see no reason to hold hsers back because of "early" dates of birth. There will be children of all age ranges in their "grade levels."

 

More and more, though, as homeschooling becomes more mainstream, this is simply not true.  Where I live, there are part time programs (that legally allow the student to retain homeschool status) where grade level matters.  Also, since the academic workload has become more intense in the younger years, and more and more parents are redshirting, it practically changes the ages of the children grade levels even if the state laws haven't caught on.

 

In my experience, I've only spoken to parents who have regretted not redshirting as their children have gotten older. Myself and quite a few of my friends included.  

 

We ended up adding a transition year in between 8th & 9th for my older 3 boys.  My 7th grader (because of an outside activity) will be called 7th grade again in the fall instead of having the transition year.  They never repeated work--we simply kept moving ahead.  This means that my oldest (while still legally retaining our homeschool status) will graduate with 43 hours of guaranteed transfer credits from the Community College, all paid for by a public school funding.  Sure, he'll be 18 instead of 17 for his senior year, but that doesn't matter (I wasn't redshirted and was 18 for most of my senior year).  Even if we we were doing everything at home, I'd still believe that redshirting them was the right choice.  He agrees.

 

When my boys were little, I was against redshirting and often told parents to just call their children the grade level they'd be in their PS district (because all the districts where I live have different cutoffs, and you can choice into any district at any time, so that confuses things even more) because it didn't really matter.  But as my boys got older, I realized how wrong I was.  

[Guest]

There are several studies. What we saw here was that outcome depends on family culture of literacy and work ethic more than anything.

 

the funny thing is that a redshirt in my state with Dec cutoff is an on time in other states With earlier cutoffs. My ds has met students who are doing high school senior year on his college campus who are a year older than he was as a college freshman.

[J-rap]

If you would definitely RS him in PS, you could start out that way in HS.  As years go by and if he's doing fantastic (beyond his grade), then you could skip a grade.  Bump him from 4th to 6th grade, or something like that.  (We bumped our dd from 8th to 10th, though not because she was was RS.)  It seems like it'd be easier to do that than to not RS him, and then a few years later wish you had and have him repeat a grade twice.

[forty-two]

Well, to be fair, I'd also think of a June birthday as not something I would consider redshirting for... My kids have a late September birthday in a not-a-state with an end of September cutoff. Most places are Sept 1... but I still would think it's really the July and August kids where it makes a small difference. Which is not to say that kids won't benefit from it. I just get... I don't know... by May, we're basically saying that a full third of the kids in the eligible range should maybe be redshirted. One out of every three kids. And I'm not really cool with that. But, again, personally. Everyone should do what they're going to do.

His bday's practically June, and his due date was nearly in July, so in our state with a sept 1 cut-off, that's more like one-fourth of students (or one-sixth, going by due date), but your point still stands. I didn't redshirt my June bday oldest, didn't even think of it, because she never gave me a reason to. Idk, if we hadn't done pre-k with him, if I'd kept him home for hs K this year (the original plan), maybe this wouldn't have come up - I'd never had had a reason to compare him to ps standards, and so never would have thought of it. (Although I *was* worried about how he'd do even with hs K - he seemed so much less ready than either of the girls; doesn't help that my middle was begging for formal schoolwork since she was 3.5yo.)

 

All that said, once the comparison to ps standards was made, he was *obviously* not ready for full-day academic K this year, period. But a friend whose dd has a mid-Aug b-day (so a few months younger than ds) *is* doing full day academic K this year. My red shirting of him wrt ps isn't based on his bday, so much as his bday is a ready, convenient, accepted explanation for *why* he isn't ready. But my red shirting is based on him *not* being ready Right Now, not precautionary because he's young for his grade and *might* not be ready - does that make sense?

 

Eta: although actually, I *am* prepared to accept that a good half of the younger third in a given age-grade cohort would be better suited to the lower grade, and a good half of the oldest third would be better suited to the higher grade - assuming that the mythical "normal child" the grade level is targeted for is dead center in all respects (and so the prototypical "middle of the year" b-day).

Edited March 24, 2017 by forty-two

[Arcadia]

I'm not seeing why you think it wouldn't be advantageous for lower income families?

 

I know that in many cases it doesn't make sense because of childcare costs at school starting, and there are cultural differences around education.

 

But I can't see how that translates to it being an academic disadvantage.

For homeschooling, I don't see a disadvantage.

For public school in my area, it is an academic disadvantage if a child has a learning disability because they do not automatically evaluate until the child is at least two grade levels behind. A parent can request earlier but most won't know how to recognize a learning disability like dyslexia for example.

The irony is that my oldest looks at least two years older and teachers forgot he was in K and not a 2nd grader so expectations were higher and they ask for evaluation until they check his birthdate and realize he was that young.

[Farrar]

His bday's practically June, and his due date was nearly in July, so in our state with a sept 1 cut-off, that's more like one-fourth of students (or one-sixth, going by due date), but your point still stands. I didn't redshirt my June bday oldest, didn't even think of it, because she never gave me a reason to. Idk, if we hadn't done pre-k with him, if I'd kept him home for hs K this year (the original plan), maybe this wouldn't have come up - I'd never had had a reason to compare him to ps standards, and so never would have thought of it. (Although I *was* worried about how he'd do even with hs K - he seemed so much less ready than either of the girls; doesn't help that my middle was begging for formal schoolwork since she was 3.5yo.)

 

All that said, once the comparison to ps standards was made, he was *obviously* not ready for full-day academic K this year, period. But a friend whose dd has a mid-Aug b-day (so a few months younger than ds) *is* doing full day academic K this year. My red shirting of him wrt ps isn't based on his bday, so much as his bday is a ready, convenient, accepted explanation for *why* he isn't ready. But my red shirting is based on him *not* being ready Right Now, not precautionary because he's young for his grade and *might* not be ready - does that make sense?

 

It does. I think there are really two separate issues here. One, that it's concerning that a third to a quarter of the school population considering redshirting is skewing the numbers and age expectations. I mean, I talked about being more okay with a sixth, but that's still a significant number of kids and I find it pretty dubious on the whole. I think it's an overall negative trend in part because I think it's supporting the early academic push and overly high expectations of kids in kindergarten. Two, the need to treat kids as individuals and do what's right for one's own family. And that, I think, has to be most parents' individual concerns. And I totally get that. I mean, when one decides to redshirt, one isn't typically thinking about the school population as a whole or how being part of a negative trend for a good reason might be hurting the numbers. I mean, we do what's right for our kids.

[maize]

Yep.

 

It's interesting how people are viewing his (really, really) late May b-day as a "spring" b-day, having more in common with March and April than June and July, when I've always viewed it as basically a summer b-day. It's after school lets out, it's just a week before my definitely-a-summer-bday oldest's bday, and as I said, he was born early and his due date was solidly in the summer. It doesnt feel springy at all to me.

If I reference seasons I usually go by traditional start and end dates--the equinoxes in March and September and the solstice in June and December. So Spring is approximately March 21st-June 21st, then Summer until September 21st.

 

My June birthday kid was born in the spring. I did red shirt him.

Edited March 24, 2017 by maize

[forty-two]

If I reference seasons I usually go by official start and end dates--the equinoxes in March and September and the solstice in June and December. So Spring is approximately March 21st-June 21st, then Summer until September 21st.

 

My June birthday kid was born in the spring. I did red shirt him.

Dh and I were just reading about the difference between "calendar seasons" (spring=March/April/May, summer=June/July/August, etc.) and "meteorological seasons", based around the equinoxes/solstices. It explained a lot, because I'd just generally been feeling such a tension/contradiction between my calendar season expectations (June=summer, March=spring, etc.) and my desire to be "official" about it wrt waiting till the equinox/solstice proper. Realizing there are indeed *two* widely used systems was a relief!

[snowbeltmom]

A summer birthday in my neck of the woods is defined as any birthday that occurs when school is out for summer vacation - so basically the end of May through mid-August.  OP, from reading your posts, it sounds like you believe redshirting is best for your son.  If I were you, I would go ahead and redshirt.  

[forty-two]

A summer birthday in my neck of the woods is defined as any birthday that occurs when school is out for summer vacation - so basically the end of May through mid-August. OP, from reading your posts, it sounds like you believe redshirting is best for your son. If I were you, I would go ahead and redshirt.

I definitely do think redshirting wrt ps is absolutely the best thing (and, honestly, by putting him in pre-k instead of K this year, we *already* made that choice). And I'm inclined toward thinking that, in light of that, red shirting him in our hs is probably the best bet, too. We put him in pre-K instead of K mainly for social reasons - and those hold in Sunday school and other outside activities just as much as in ps. (Just got his spring progress report - he has come such a long way :). But that mostly means he has entering K skills now.). Which is to say, I don't think he's "caught up" to his age peers yet - his pre-k peers are indeed his peers - and so sticking with red shirting him across the board seems like the best fit for now. If he catches up, we can modify then.

[snowbeltmom]

I definitely do think redshirting wrt ps is absolutely the best thing (and, honestly, by putting him in pre-k instead of K this year, we *already* made that choice). And I'm inclined toward thinking that, in light of that, red shirting him in our hs is probably the best bet, too. We put him in pre-K instead of K mainly for social reasons - and those hold in Sunday school and other outside activities just as much as in ps. (Just got his spring progress report - he has come such a long way :). But that mostly means he has entering K skills now.). Which is to say, I don't think he's "caught up" to his age peers yet - his pre-k peers are indeed his peers - and so sticking with red shirting him across the board seems like the best fit for now. If he catches up, we can modify then.

But ...from what you have written in this thread, it sounds like his age peers are also in pre-K, so there is no "catching up" to do. :)

[WoolC]

I was planning to redshirt my ds7 for ps kindergarten but we ended up deciding to homeschool. We decided to go ahead and start kindergarten at 5 (July birthday) since my expectations for K were less than our ps. Halfway through his first grade year (age 6) at home it became apparent that we were dealing with various learning disabilities and more time would be helpful. I quietly called this school year first grade again and he never noticed.

If you have any doubt at all that he will be able to keep up with grade level work I would still redshirt. Of course you can work at whatever grade level is appropriate for your child and call it whatever you like since your homeschooling, but for me it helped to take the pressure off. Like 8filltheheart said above, I would rather have my ds a solid first grader than a struggling second grader. It will also be easier to accelerate him a grade later on than it would be to hold him back if necessary when he's old enough to notice.

[MeganW]

If something happened, and you HAD to send them to public school, what grade would you call them?  That's what you need to call them for homeschool.  Teach them at their level, but label them what they would be in public.

[8Arrows4theLord]

I worked as an aide for a PS 1st gr. teacher for several years. Here is a little of what she told me about when kids start school.

  She could always point out the "summer babies" and premies. She said they often had to work harder to keep up with the regular fall and winter kids. Kids born early should be grouped with other kids that were born when they were due. That month early makes a big difference in their development. A premie due in August, but born in June, should be thought of as an August baby for school. Often when kept in pre K that extra year, the summer kids had a much better school experience in K, and better academic performance in 1st gr..

 

I remembered her comments when our DD turned 5, 1 week before the PS cut off. She just wasn't ready for a full K year, so we scaled it back. We will continue over the summer and next school year with our pre-K/ K books until she is ready to move on. This will give her the time to mature emotionally, for her fine motor skills to improve, and to get a solid base in phonics.

For all of my children I have set their grade level by their lowest Math or Reading level. That way they could be working ahead in what they are good at, but working at grade level for their slower subject. My

9 1/2 yr. old is just finishing 2nd grade because of a reading problem, but he is thriving and able to keep up in Sunday school.  

Being a non reading 1st grader can be embarrassing for some children, even in SS, when asked to read and they can't. I would red shirt a young child who isn't mature enough or one who isn't able to work at the expected grade level. One nice thing is that homeschoolers can skip grades later, when their late bloomers blossom.