Ryan Lochte drama...

[staceyobu]

Anyone following this? So bizarre!

[Rachel]

I think there's something fishy going on, not sure what though.

[bettyandbob]

I think Brazil is embarrassed they couldn't ensure the safety of the athletes. IOC officials initially denied the robbery took place. It wasn't just Lochte, but three others.

 

Supposedly they wanted to detain the swimmers in Brazil to question them more. But Lochte left already. Many of the swimmers left after swimming was over. So the police appear to be slow to investigate.

[hornblower]

It's very weird.

 

In our media it's reported they were intoxicated and couldn't remember where they were exactly or what type of taxi or anything.  I'm thinking it was a party with activities that they don't really want anyone to dig too deeply into but felt they had to report the missing ID. 

[sassenach]

It's not the type of thing that 4 swimmers are going to make up. And I am not a Lochte fan. I think he's kind of an idiot. However, Brazil's government is corrupt and the judge's order is evidence of that. 

[SquirrellyMama]

I had heard about the robbery when they had it on the news. I had not seen this follow up. I figured there would be more to it. I'm not sure I think they made it up. What would they gain from it?

 

Kelly

Edited August 17, 2016 by SquirrellyMama

[Seasider]

It's very weird.

 

In our media it's reported they were intoxicated and couldn't remember where they were exactly or what type of taxi or anything. I'm thinking it was a party with activities that they don't really want anyone to dig too deeply into but felt they had to report the missing ID.

The speculation I'm hearing is that they may have been in a location (like a brothel), or participating in activities as you mention, that would have had a negative effect on his product endorsement contracts and so they declined to file a report with accurate details.

[FaithManor]

I believe that Brazil is trying to obfuscate the fact that crime is insane in that city, they have no control of it, aren't going to get any control of it, and figure why not try to get the heat off us by making a wild claim against these athletes. Of course even if for some incredibly bizarre reason this was true, the irregularities in statements should have been noted asap as would be normal for law enforcement. The swimmers would have been brought back right away. The time elapsed just further makes the Rio authorities look that much more incompetent.

[Heatherwith4]

My first thought was "I'm glad he's already back home for his sake."

[bettyandbob]

My first thought was "I'm glad he's already back home for his sake."

 

I'm worried about Jimmy Feigen, who apparently has not left Brazil. The US swimmers were all moved out of the athlete's village when the swimming competition was over. The police went into the village today looking for them. That's a bit delayed and shows they really are not paying attention. 

[Heatherwith4]

I'm worried about Jimmy Feigen, who apparently has not left Brazil. The US swimmers were all moved out of the athlete's village when the swimming competition was over. The police went into the village today looking for them. That's a bit delayed and shows they really are not paying attention.

Wow. Very weird.

[dirty ethel rackham]

Their rationale for believing it to be a false statement is that they were seen being jovial with each other on security cameras when checking back into the athlete's village and not acting all freaked out.  Well, they were probably intoxicated and, well, Lochte strikes me as the type of person who covers negative emotions with class clown-type antics.  Pretty flimsy reason for investigating the swimmers.

[Tap]

Their rationale for believing it to be a false statement is that they were seen being jovial with each other on security cameras when checking back into the athlete's village and not acting all freaked out.  Well, they were probably intoxicated and, well, Lochte strikes me as the type of person who covers negative emotions with class clown-type antics.  Pretty flimsy reason for investigating the swimmers.

On top of that, these swimmers are used to Extremely high stress situations. They are world class athletes in a sport that is determined on fractions of seconds.  I really doubt that they would react like a typical person after a high stress situation.  They have to be able to push through stress and come out the other side, or they would not be where they are athletically.  Using the video for any type of a legal basis in this manner is subjective at best and honestly shouldn't even be considered as evidence. 

[MrsMommy]

Apparently Conger and Bentz have been removed from their flight in Rio. I still haven't heard anything about Feigen.

[Stacia]

Apparently Conger and Bentz have been removed from their flight in Rio. I still haven't heard anything about Feigen.

 

I know the Daily Mail is not considered the most reputable source, but they are saying Feigen was also stopped from leaving the country:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3746324/U-S-Olympic-swimmers-Gunnar-Bentz-Jack-Conger-REMOVED-flight-Brazilian-authorities-following-Ryan-Lochte-s-claim-robbed-gunpoint.html

 

Edited August 18, 2016 by Stacia

[MrsMommy]

I know the Daily Mail is not considered the most reputable source, but they are saying Feigen was also stopped from leaving the country:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3746324/U-S-Olympic-swimmers-Gunnar-Bentz-Jack-Conger-REMOVED-flight-Brazilian-authorities-following-Ryan-Lochte-s-claim-robbed-gunpoint.html

 

 

I hope that's true. When Bob Costas and Matt Lauer were talking about it tonight, they said that he had checked into his flight online, but never showed up at the airport.

[Guest]

The speculation I'm hearing is that they may have been in a location (like a brothel), or participating in activities as you mention, that would have had a negative effect on his product endorsement contracts and so they declined to file a report with accurate details.

That's exactly what popped into my head as well. Drugs, women, or both.

[bettyandbob]

The speculation I'm hearing is that they may have been in a location (like a brothel), or participating in activities as you mention, that would have had a negative effect on his product endorsement contracts and so they declined to file a report with accurate details.

 

There are witnesses who say they were at the France House party until almost dawn. That mostly checks out with the video of them checking in security Sunday morning at 6:15 am. It doesn't surprise me (or anyone surely) that they athletes would go to a party after they were finished all their events. They may have been partying, but at an event associated with the athletes and the Olympics. Pretty much that would be expected. 

 

I'm going to need a lot more info before I decided the athletes are lying. I think detaining athletes is actually making Brazil look bad. 

[SproutMamaK]

From what I can see, the main evidence Brazil has that they're lying is that...
- they said their wallets were stolen but some of them seem to have black objects in their hands in the videos where they arrive back at their lodgings. Could be cell phones, but one or two of them have two black rectangular objects.

- they said it happened in a cab that they got in at a gas station near the party they were at, but the video from the nearest gas station doesn't show them or a cab.
- they looked too happy/relaxed when they reach their destination.

Not saying I agree with all the evidence, just laying out the key bits for those who can't comb through the articles.

[Farrar]

I can't figure out what to think. I mean, what's their supposed motivation for lying? To get attention seems sort of flimsy to me. I mean, honestly, Lochte sounds like a bit of a jerk from things I read, but this seems pretty extreme. The government does have a motivation for trying to discredit the story - to deny that Rio has a crime problem. But it's just been done so sloppy. I mean, Rio *does* have a crime problem. And they're using all these resources to chase these guys? Seriously? It's just making them look *more* corrupt. Like, honestly, even if they were just making it all up, right now it's just making Brasil look bad. And thus far, Rio has - astoundingly! - come off looking pretty good in the games. Do they really want people digging deeper? Because that seems like it's asking for trouble. You tear down the "don't look here wall" (literally, they put up walls to hide the slums) and there's so much under the surface.

[TravelingChris]

I think this is really bad. I looked at the video and I thought that the things in their hands were cell phones. Which they said weren't stolen.  Did they report stolen credit cards to their respective companies?  The crime in Rio is horrendous.   They were at the French Olympic place.  I could see one of them misplacing a wallet but all four?  ANd this kind of deal with fake policeman happened to a New Zealand athlete too a few weeks before.  I don't know how many others it has happened too not just athletes but visitors too.  I fear for the swimmers.  Lochte escaped but the others aren't so lucky.  

[fraidycat]

I agree it's so bizarre.

 

I mean, they could be lying for whatever bizarre reason. But, it was supposedly Lochte's mom who spoke to Fox news and made the first claim before any reports were filed. So...???

 

It's just so weird.

 

And if they are lying - what a gigantic waste of resources they could be expending on combatting "real" crime in the city and country vs. people who are leaving and most likely will never return. I'm betting the motive is money. The "rich" swimmers will have to pay massive bribes fines on trumped up charges (with probably small gains of truth in them) to be released.

Edited August 18, 2016 by fraidycat

[Amira]

Two thoughts about being crime victims in another country.

 

First, people often lie in police statements to cover up something they don't want everyone to know about. Not something illegal, but something that would still affect them negatively. I have no idea if these swimmers did this, but victims too often get hurt even more when they do this. This is a huge problem everywhere in the world.

 

Second, there are relatively few countries where the police have the training, resources, and support to do their jobs effectively and fairly. It's also a bit risky to report something in a country where you're not familiar with the laws or the system. There are many circumstances where I'd think through the implications of reporting something and probably choose to not do it because the benefits are small. Again, victims too often get hurt even more by reporting.

 

In both of these cases, a more qualified law enforcement system helps immensely. I think the Olympic Committee should take that into consideration.

[hornblower]

Did they ever mean to report it? He told his mom something and she reported it to press and then it blew up.

 

I admit that my bias is to assume the athletes were up to no good and trying to cover something up and doing a poor job of it.

[Arctic Bunny]

In a very sketchy country, get robbed by a policeman, all I've lost is my wallet (as opposed to Olympic credentials, passport)... I am honestly not sure if I would report it either.

[Tap]

My suspicion is right where most peoples minds go.

 

They were partying.  They did something they don't want to fess up to. Most likely drugs, vandalism, or girls. I am guessing they did get robbed, either how they said it happened or in a way that would require an undesirable confession of the nights activities. ie all of their wallets went missing when they were in brothels etc or they were robbed in an area of the city that they shouldn't have been in, trying to buy something they shouldn't have. They already said they didn't say anything because they thought they would get into trouble. 

 

I think that it likely got blown up, way out of proportion.  Partially because of the press.  Partially because of the IOC.  Partially because of pressure on Rio's gov't.  There are obvious lies in the story or else they wouldn't have hid it in the first place and Rio wouldn't be pursuing them. Maybe they desecrated something, or damaged something.  Maybe they pissed off the wrong person. 

 

The gov't may actually know the truth and they may want to sweep it under the rug, but the press and IOC won't let that happen. Quite honestly, Rio looks bad either way.  IF they let it go, they are corrupt and condoning violence.  If they push for the truth to come out, they look overly aggressive and like they are victim blaming.  They are stuck and are quite honestly, going to come out bad either way.  Since the press is involved, and there are very public athletes involved, they are going to have to go with what their law books say.  Which I am guessing, says to detain the athletes. Lochte seems like a putz, but that is just what the press shows of him. I have know idea if he is a decent guy or not.  Maybe he and the others made the crime up....but I doubt it.  My guess is that the truth is going to get out, one way or another, but it will likely be only about half right. 

 

Edited August 18, 2016 by Tap

[redsquirrel]

And judging what people are like when they get out of a cab...that they don't look 'right' for crime victims? That is not ok. People react to stress in different ways, people react differently in a group than when together, people react to things..differently than we believe they will or must.

 

 

And what do they get from lying? They weren't in trouble for whatever they did or didn't do when they were out. People lie about crime very, very rarely and generally it is to cover up something else or get out of trouble for something they did.  Like, is this Lochte married and he told his mom some story to justify why he was out all night? That's the kind of thing that spurs people to make a big story like that.

[bettyandbob]

I'm not sure what Lochte would be covering up. He's not married and he's well known for partying.

 

Perhaps the group had decided not to report the incident and it was leaked. Most of the sports groups from the US would have been advised ahead on how to handle trouble and not reporting robbery could have been part of the advice.

 

I don't like Lochte. I would be inclined to think he was lying if accused of DUI in Florida or accused of sexually harassing someone. I see no benefit to him lying about this. I do see a lot of benefit to Brazil and the IOC managing to discredit American athletes.

[Haiku]

Why is Brazil trying to detain the swimmers? Have they been accused of a crime?

[bettyandbob]

Why is Brazil trying to detain the swimmers? Have they been accused of a crime?

Brazil has accused them of lying that a robbery took place. If the robbery took place it would be another thing that looks bad for the host country of the Olympics.

[Haiku]

Brazil has accused them of lying that a robbery took place. If the robbery took place it would be another thing that looks bad for the host country of the Olympics.

Lying to whom? Filing a false police report? Or telling the press? Or what?

[bettyandbob]

Lying to whom? Filing a false police report? Or telling the press? Or what?

A Fox reported the robbery before the police report, then after the Fox report someone interviewed Lochte's mother perhaps because he's famous and so finding her was easy while the swimmers were sleeping off a night of partying.

 

After it hit the news the report was made. It's not clear if the swimmers went to the police or the police came to them.

 

The swimmers admitted off the that they were intoxicated. They were probably still intoxicated when they arrived back through security at the Olympic Village. It is likely they arrived back after a curfew if there was one.

 

Also one swimmer said he was worried about "someone" finding out what they had been doing until another in the group pointed out that they were done competing and they were all over 21. I didn't catch the name of that swimmer, but I would guess that was the youngest and least experienced with being on his own in international competition.

 

It seems the police had an opportunity to say they couldn't verify and investigate because the swimmers were intoxicated and facts are unclear.

 

Sports Illustrated just put out a timeline which I can't link on my phone.

[Haiku]

Crazy. I could honestly see this going both ways: athletes involved in something they shouldn't have been and trying to cover it up, or corrupt Rio police force unable to effectively deal with crime and trying to scapegoat the athletes.

 

Probably a bad idea for Brazil to detain them/confiscate their passports. It's just more bad press.

[bettyandbob]

Crazy. I could honestly see this going both ways: athletes involved in something they shouldn't have been and trying to cover it up, or corrupt Rio police force unable to effectively deal with crime and trying to scapegoat the athletes.

 

Probably a bad idea for Brazil to detain them/confiscate their passports. It's just more bad press.

Oh yes I see both. I do see Brazil has more to lose by extending this drama.

[Faithful_Steward]

So they have been detained because they failed to make a (possibly false?) police report? Because of publicity from a swimmer's mom in another country? Could Brazil make itself look any worse right now?

 

I think their wallets were probably stolen during a sexual encounter. Lochte didn't want to tell his mom the details so he made up a story, not knowing his mom would blab all over tv.

[flyingiguana]

Another possible scenario -- the fake cops weren't actually fake.  And the cops want to discredit these guys before that truth comes out.

 

 

[Seasider]

I'm not sure what Lochte would be covering up. He's not married and he's well known for partying.

.

Product endorsements. Something scandalous and his earning potential shrinks. Look what happened to Michael Phelps.

[bettyandbob]

The reason I don't think the swimmers are lying is I don't think Lochte deems anything too embarrassing. This is also why I don't like him and think he's generally an idiot. But the truth is he's done do much crap in public I'm not sure his partying in Brazil would be something he needs to cover up.

 

Additionally, there were others at the France house party who have said the swimmers were there all night. Right now there appears to be independent corroboration of the timeline. Pretty much I think they were too intoxicated to give good witness information.

[bettyandbob]

Product endorsements. Something scandalous and his earning potential shrinks. Look what happened to Michael Phelps.

Lochte doesn't have endorsements that are really hurt by partying. People who know who he is know he parties a lot. He had a reality show a couple years ago. It wasn't anything that would support having endorsements attractive to family friendly sponsors.

 

Yes he has endorsements. So did Bode Miller and his behavior was ridiculous too.

 

Michael Phelps had a thousand times more endorsements than any other swimmer. Not really a comparison.

[hornblower]

I can't believe you guys can't think of anything that they would want to cover up because off the top of my head, I can think of several things.  There's partying and then there's partying. 

Adult prostitution is legal in Brazil but underage is not. 

Male prostitution. Legal but sponsors would have kittens in the uproar. 

 

Cocaine or other serious street drugs.  I find it interesting they keep saying they were intoxicated, not drunk. 

 

[justasque]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-37115778 
 
BBC:  Rio 2016 Olympics: US swimmers 'damaged petrol station door'

[hornblower]

Reports this morning are that they lied to cover up a "brawl"

[TheReader]

I can't believe you guys can't think of anything that they would want to cover up because off the top of my head, I can think of several things. There's partying and then there's partying.

 

Adult prostitution is legal in Brazil but underage is not.

 

Male prostitution. Legal but sponsors would have kittens in the uproar.

 

Cocaine or other serious street drugs. I find it interesting they keep saying they were intoxicated, not drunk.

 

 

....and, while I was typing, people posted reports that they admitted to lying. Oops. Well, alrighty then.

 

Never mind the below, then......

Aren't they all over 21? Or you are implying they may have hired under age prostitutes?

 

I can imagine there exist things they would want to cover up, but I can far more easily imagine a robbery happening pretty much the way the swimmers have described. I find it perfectly believable that they were robbed, at gunpoint. There's been a slew of robberies targeting Olympians in the weeks leading up to, and during, the Games.

 

I find it perfectly believable that an intoxicated group of swimmers wouldn't remember/be able to describe their taxi driver well enough to make an ID. And that they might have walked around some before getting a cab -- that the video from "the closest" gas station doesn't show them isn't a convincing argument for me.

 

I find it believable that they might not have realized, at 3 a.m. and drunk, and after being robbed by people in police uniforms, that they might not want to report to the police or might not be sure which police to report to. I can imagine even without being drunk, it might be unclear where to find the right police to report to, as a tourist unfamiliar with the procedures, and the desire to just get home and get to bed and deal with it once sober.

 

If they presumably went from the party, to being robbed, to their room, and then to the Olympic Village (I haven't seen the timeline), then I find it believable they might have had their watches in their rooms, and put them on in the morning. I even find it possible that maybe they had them, weren't wearing them, and so the thieves didn't see them (thus they still had them later). Although if they had them on, when they were robbed, that's the part that makes me wonder, unless the thieves just wanted to be done quickly, and maybe thought the jewelry would be too identifiable but cash from their wallets wouldn't be.

 

I find it totally plausible that the taxi driver could have been involved, and so wouldn't come forward, which would be why they haven't found him.

 

And I find it totally ridiculous of Brazil to go after them so hard for this, because honestly it worries me more to go there knowing that if I am robbed, the police may decide that I need to be the focus of the investigation and not be allowed to go home, rather than that they'd take my statement and believe me. Much bigger PR nightmare than just being robbed, if you ask me.

 

Anyway, it's not that I can't think of anything the swimmers might want to cover up, more that I find the situation plausible enough that I'm not looking for things they might be covering up.

Edited August 18, 2016 by TheReader

[bettyandbob]

I think it's the fact that I know the swimmers are not stand up guys (Lochte has never represented wholesome behavior. It's not his image and he doesn't have endorsements based on that.) that makes me think there's some truth in their statements.

[zoobie]

Latest report is there's security footage of the swimmers trashing a gas station restroom and fighting with a security guard there around the time they were supposedly robbed. Nice. http://sports.yahoo.com/news/report-ryan-lochte-u-s-swimmers-fabricated-armed-robbery-story-140805637.html

[hornblower]

And I find it totally ridiculous of Brazil to go after them so hard for this, because honestly it worries me more to go there knowing that if I am robbed, the police may decide that I need to be the focus of the investigation and not be allowed to go home, rather than that they'd take my statement and believe me. Much bigger PR nightmare than just being robbed, if you ask me.

 

 

See, this is why I thought the Brazilians had something. They're not stupid. Yes, there's a crime problem, yes, there's corruption but they're not stupid.  I figured that they had contradictory evidence that not only countered this story (which a city may choose to pursue in order to clear their name if it's just a baseless smear) but that possibly put the swimmers in the position of having committed a crime. 

 

It's interesting which way initial gut reactions go. I think some people are inclined to think the worst of a foreign country; I am inclined to think the worst of a US male elite swimmer. 

 

 

 

[redsquirrel]

This is such a great teaching opportunity. They did lie to get out of trouble. I am assuming they didn't intend for the story to go public but I'm not sure why they didn't think it would...aside from their youth. 

 

One more amazing example of 'it's not the crime that gets you, it's the cover up"

 

They are so stupid. Did they actually think the owner of the gas station wasn't going to speak to police about damage to his building? 

 

ah- I just read the NYT story and apparently the owner had called the police to begin with and the swimmers had fled before police arrived.  That is why the police have been wanting to speak to them.  Good job by the police keeping quiet about what they knew until they had the truth from the swimmers themselves. 

[Haiku]

This is such a great teaching opportunity. They did lie to get out of trouble. I am assuming they didn't intend for the story to go public but I'm not sure why they didn't think it would...aside from their youth. 

 

Ryan Lochte is 32. He's not a youth. He's an entitled jerk.

 

He and Brock Turner make swimming look awesome ... not.

 

FWIW, I knew nothing about Ryan Lochte before this and did not know he had a bad-boy reputation.

[SproutMamaK]

Can anyone link to articles about what the swimmers are saying today? It's not getting any coverage on the news up here (for which I should probably be grateful instead of looking for info, lol), and all the articles I'm finding are just about the guys getting pulled off the plane, not anyone admitting to lying.

[hornblower]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/aug/18/ryan-lochte-us-swimmers-robbery-rio-gas-station?CMP=twt_gu