How Wrong Was I? (MIL Drama)

[bolt.]

I put this in the Mother's Day thread, but I think I need to talk it through.

 

Today my MIL came for dinner (for Mother's Day, also present: her husband, my parents, my husband/her son, our 2 kids/her grandkids). During dessert she left in anger because I told her that I didn't need her to intervene with my daughter's mild upset. DD was was handing her upset quite well.

 

I was telling DD not to use too much chocolate syrup, but she did use a generous amount of syrup. I told her it was too much and she got teary. I said that if she thought I made a mistake (about the amount of syrup) she should tell me so, but if she needed to cry she should leave the table.

 

MIL kind heartedly wanted to "defend" DD. MIL thought DD was getting in trouble. (She wasn't; we don't really do 'trouble' we were just working on a skill. The mood was supportive and collaborative.) MIL said that there wasn't that much chocolate sauce, and when I continued to supportively focus on my DD. She picked up DD's plate and held it out to show me.

 

Now, I wasn't about to argue the fine shades of chocolate sauce serving size with my MIL, so I said instead that I didn't need her to interfere, and asked her (probably firmly?) to please put the plate back in front of DD.

 

She put the plate back, announced in a teary/abrupt/offended voice to her DH that they were leaving, and swiftly exited. My DH followed them and returned shortly. The table was kinda shocked. DD didn't look up the whole time, or for about 20 min afterwards.

 

I was probably abrupt, and 'interfere' was a poor word choice (I meant intervene)... But really. Drama, much?

 

I feel defensive, but I feel defensive because I feel crappy. I just can't do anything right with that woman, and nothing I do that's right (for years!) counts for the worth of a fart if I step on her toes once in a while. Not like she doesn't step on my toes too!!! I guess I'm also a little on the angry side of defensive.

 

How wrong was I? I'm just not socially adept enough to have done much differently. I've got the basics but I have trouble telling conflict apart from logic... Advice? Comfort? Anything?

Edited May 9, 2016 by bolt.

[maize]

I don't think it is your fault that MIL walked out, I think you set an appropriate boundary and she overreacted.

 

The one thing you might consider in the future is backing off a bit from parenting mode during a celebratory gathering. It is awkward for a child to be corrected in the presence of guests, and most things just don't matter so much that they must be dealt with at that time.

[PentecostalMom]

I don't think it is your fault that MIL walked out, I think you set an appropriate boundary and she overreacted.

 

The one thing you might consider in the future is backing off a bit from parenting mode during a celebratory gathering. It is awkward for a child to be corrected in the presence of guests, and most things just don't matter so much that they must be dealt with at that time.

This.

[zoobie]

I don't think it is your fault that MIL walked out, I think you set an appropriate boundary and she overreacted.

 

The one thing you might consider in the future is backing off a bit from parenting mode during a celebratory gathering. It is awkward for a child to be corrected in the presence of guests, and most things just don't matter so much that they must be dealt with at that time.

I agree on both points. I have a DC for whom corrections in front of others is never, ever productive.

[marbel]

I was about to type almost the same thing that Maize did.    It doesn't seem to me that you did anything wrong to  your MIL, unless, possibly, if you were very harsh when you told her not to intervene.   I probably would not have commented on the amount of chocolate sauce my kid took at that time.

Edited May 9, 2016 by marbel

[texasmama]

I don't think it is your fault that MIL walked out, I think you set an appropriate boundary and she overreacted.

 

The one thing you might consider in the future is backing off a bit from parenting mode during a celebratory gathering. It is awkward for a child to be corrected in the presence of guests, and most things just don't matter so much that they must be dealt with at that time.

This. It is also awkward for some people to have a grandchild corrected in front of them like that.

 

During celebrations, I would let the syrup flow freely or dish it out myself if I was concerned.

 

I have a relative who corrects a child freely in front of family during holiday gatherings and it makes everyone uncomfortable. I would wait and do it privately.

[bolt.]

That sounds like good hindsight. My kids have been mildly exasperating all day (How can we use *your* day as an excuse to indulge ourselves?) and I just got into 'apparently you need help' mode. I was 'off' too. I couldn't figure out how to join small talk and was distracted by cooking. (Originally they were going to do the cooking, but it didn't work out.)

 

My dd was asking permission for chocolate sauce and I had barely sat down to supper. I thought, "Sure, but only a little." Was pretty a parenting-light response to syrup-on-cake already -- but it didn't turn out that way. I should have just said yes or no, and looked away from the results.

 

I just feel really defeated.

Edited May 9, 2016 by bolt.

[maize]

Ah hugs bolt, I'm so sorry it's been a rough day and no way are you responsible for someone else's rudeness.

[bolt.]

Doesn't it just feel plain unfair that everyone appreciates a well-raised child, but frowns and feels 'uncomfortable' when they happen to observe the process? Do they think it's magic??? 😢

[texasmama]

(((Hugs)))

 

Gently, I correct my kids and they are well behaved, but I don't do it at holiday gatherings in front of sympathetic relatives. When you work with your kids day in and day out, it shows. It's ok to take a few days off of the intense work. An infraction would need to be pretty egregious for me to address it at a holiday table. Likely, it would need to involve safety.

[lmrich]

Why did you make dinner on Mother's Day? 

 

You can apologize for being short with MIL. Tell her it was not the day you had expected and were at the end of your rope. Apologize and move on. If you could have done it differently you would have. Hopefully she will apologize too. But that is out of your control. I hope you got to enjoy part of your day. 

[Danestress]

I agree with Maize on both points.

 

However, you don't have to be a perfect parent in order to earn the right to parent without interference. Just as I would not fight the chocolate syrup battle with my daughter at a holiday table, I would not undermine/question/argue with another parent at a holiday table (or anywhere else) just because they weren't handling something the way I would. Many people might agree with her, but there was only one parent there involved.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Danestress

[38carrots]

It seems like your MIL was trying to lighten up an awkward moment, you reacted harshly, and she lost it. Seems like everyone was having a hard day. Sounds so stressful.

 

Sorry you weren't having a good day. :grouphug:

[bolt.]

Why did you make dinner on Mother's Day?

 

 

Mostly because the kids were having trouble co-operating with each other -- so, what should have been started after breakfast (roast beef) could not be accomplished by the time I remembered that it should have happened. (I was going to walk them through it.) By then it was too late to re-plan a meal that I would really like, that kids can make with minimal help. I didn't want to walk them through anything, or just leave them to muddle with guests due.

 

So I picked a simple meal to do myself, with ingredients we already had, but tried to make it company-fancy too. The dinner was nice... All was well until preteen years over chocolate sauce micromanagement.

[Haiku]

I think that telling a grandparent they are interfering over something as minor as how much chocolate syrup a child used is likely to sting. I wouldn't have commented on it during a family celebration.

 

It sounds like everyone was having a stressful time. I hope things got better for you.

[LMD]

It reminds me of an incident with my mil. My husband, her son, was discussing with her her tendency to intervene and stick up for the children and how it undermines us. We don't go overboard with corrections in public but sometimes you have to take advantage of situations, you know? Anyway, it was a pleasant enough conversation although mil denied ever doing it! Not 10 mins later, as we sat down for lunch, she did exactly what we had just been discussing! It was a very minor reminder to our child, we pointed it out to her and she was very sheepish for a little while after that! She still does it though...

 

My sympathies. I think storming out was a huge overreaction and is something my own mother likes to do when I chose to parent differently than she insists.

[bolt.]

It seems like your MIL was trying to lighten up an awkward moment, you reacted harshly, and she lost it. Seems like everyone was having a hard day. Sounds so stressful.

 

Sorry you weren't having a good day. :grouphug:

Looking for clarification here... I can see that perhaps she thought DD needed defending, which is a good-hearted motive, and that's what I was thinking.

 

Trying to 'lighten things' is also a good hearted motive. If you think it's a potential explaination for what she did, can you explain how that line-of-thought goes? I don't get, "Maybe bolt will feel more lighthearted if I show her that she is wrong." Is it, "Maybe DGD will feel more lighthearted if I prove her mother wrong?" -- if so, I can see that as taking a side, but not as an attempt to 'lighten up' the whole mood... Help me get it?

[hornblower]

Oh man, if I ever have grandkids, I'm going to be that grandma. The one that laughs, grabs the syrup and pours on even more. Grandmas are for spoiling and sneaking extra candies and helping you wiggle out of trouble. If a grandchild of mine is close to tears in front of me, in the type of situation you described, I would have leapt to intervene.  I'd probably leap to intervene for a stranger child. 

anyone who is in tears is in trouble - emotionally in trouble.... 

[lauraw4321]

I agree with Hornblower. Although, I am like you, Bolt, in that I have probably reacted very similarly in very similar circumstances. But I would hope that when someone points out to me that I'm being a bit..something..I would try to be graceful and let it go. Unless there was a history of boundary-ignoring (which there very well could be) I would try to gracefully back down.

 

ETA: I would call her tomorrow or the day after, apologize, say it was a rough day for unrelated reasons. But I would also try to not beat myself up about it because we are all human, after all, and can be prefect only in our dreams or in hindsight.

Edited May 9, 2016 by lauraw4321

[bolt.]

I think that telling a grandparent they are interfering over something as minor as how much chocolate syrup a child used is likely to sting. I wouldn't have commented on it during a family celebration.

 

It sounds like everyone was having a stressful time. I hope things got better for you.

Can you help me by scripting? Other than not starting the chocolate syrup debacle in the first place (which, clearly would have been wisest all-round) what phrases are available/appropriate when she is holding the plate out in front of me? All I've got are variations on, "Please stop that." I'm so stuck.

[Haiku]

"Yes, perhaps you're right."

 

Smile.

 

Move on.

 

You're not saying she's right. You're throwing her a bone and moving on.

[purplejackmama]

"Oh, ok"

[goldberry]

Looking for clarification here... I can see that perhaps she thought DD needed defending, which is a good-hearted motive, and that's what I was thinking.

 

Trying to 'lighten things' is also a good hearted motive. If you think it's a potential explaination for what she did, can you explain how that line-of-thought goes? I don't get, "Maybe bolt will feel more lighthearted if I show her that she is wrong." Is it, "Maybe DGD will feel more lighthearted if I prove her mother wrong?" -- if so, I can see that as taking a side, but not as an attempt to 'lighten up' the whole mood... Help me get it?

 

People often feel uncomfortable when children are corrected in front of them, including feeling embarrassed for the kids.  I could see her doing it to break the "discomfort" by saying, see, it's no big deal, kind of thing...  Not saying that's right, but possible.

 

FWIW, I can totally see how you likely felt after that kind of day!  

:grouphug:

[lauraw4321]

"Oh, is that all?  Ok! Please pass the cake."

[Joker]

Can you help me by scripting? Other than not starting the chocolate syrup debacle in the first place (which, clearly would have been wisest all-round) what phrases are available/appropriate when she is holding the plate out in front of me? All I've got are variations on, "Please stop that." I'm so stuck.

 

I would have just laughed it off and moved on.

 

Maybe it would help if you think of it terms of you don't feel a need to stop or correct MIL when she does something similar? I wouldn't think to correct or ask my MIL, or mom, to stop in that situation. I would laugh, roll my eyes inwardly, vent to dh later, and move on. 

[hornblower]

Looking for clarification here... I can see that perhaps she thought DD needed defending, which is a good-hearted motive, and that's what I was thinking.

 

Trying to 'lighten things' is also a good hearted motive. If you think it's a potential explaination for what she did, can you explain how that line-of-thought goes? I don't get, "Maybe bolt will feel more lighthearted if I show her that she is wrong." Is it, "Maybe DGD will feel more lighthearted if I prove her mother wrong?" -- if so, I can see that as taking a side, but not as an attempt to 'lighten up' the whole mood... Help me get it?

 

The idea in my head goes like this "this is really not a big deal. This is really not.a.big.deal. This person needs to snap out of it & realize it's not a big deal. Maybe I can convince them or cajole them to just let this go..." 

 

dh comes from a family where entire dinners were RUINED because a child upset a glass. A certain person at the table would make such a big deal of it, and make people cry & everyone would be sad and emotionally on edge. The child would feel horrid, the child's parents would feel judged and found wanting, everyone would feel awkward. It's something he's terribly attuned to now & it was a big deal to us to have meals be relaxed and fun for everyone - & yes, that means working hard on manners at times of low stress & maybe having a quick refresher about potential trouble issues in the 15 mins before guests arrive & if unexpected things happen, you just channel your inner zen & say "oh well" and smile. 

 

It's one thing to help a kid, or gently whisper to a child (pass the peas before serving yourself), or worse comes to worst, ask a child to come talk to you in the kitchen and have a CTJ conversation about "don't kick your brother under the table again & yes, I know you were doing it & don't pretend otherwise", and then return to the table smiling.... but finding fault with anyone at a celebratory table is just not nice or fun for anyone. 

 

 

One thing I'm wondering about is if possibly your MIL has memories of dinners such as the ones my dh remembers. You know how it is...we're all in our own movies, running our own scripts which don't necessarily make sense to people outside of our heads. So that would explain her over reaction, kwim? 

[lauraw4321]

Assuming she was acting in good faith, she was probably thinking, I'll give her a way to gracefully back down. I'll give Bolt a way to save face.

 

I don't always have the social skills to realize that's what's happening to me, and I probably would have missed the lifeline as well.

[Garga]

Mother's Days is another holiday faught with emotional pitfalls. Your day wasn't going the way you wanted and perhaps hers wasn't either. Is her mother still alive? Maybe she still grieves her mother on Mother's Day if she's no longer alive.

 

You should not have corrected your daughter in front of everyone and she should not have stormed out. But I do wonder if she cried in the car on the way home because she was feeling blue about something Mother's Day related. You both sound like you were extra sensitive today. As were many people today.

 

A pox on Mother's Day and its high expectations.

[poppy]

"If you need to cry leave the table" isn't 'in trouble'? I think that is not typical -- it sounds so harsh from the outside. So I can see where the misunderstanding came from.

 

I am not judging your parenting , you know your kid and what works! But from the outside , I can see 'look it's not so bad everyone just get along!' being a not unpredictable smoothing over move.

Edited May 9, 2016 by poppy

[hornblower]

sorry you had such a stressful & awkward day, bolt.

[bolt.]

People often feel uncomfortable when children are corrected in front of them, including feeling embarrassed for the kids. I could see her doing it to break the "discomfort" by saying, see, it's no big deal, kind of thing... Not saying that's right, but possible.

 

FWIW, I can totally see how you likely felt after that kind of day!

:grouphug:

Are there really people in the world who would be "lightened" to learn that they had made their child cry in front of an audience by correcting the child *in error* when the child had done nothing wrong?

 

Juat that simple: if the child did nothing wrong, then there is nothing wrong -- pass the cake?

 

It would be nice to be that kind of a person.

[Danestress]

"Well goodness. I wish I had as much help with cooking and cleaning as I seem to be getting with parenting."

[lauraw4321]

I wouldn't feel *lightened* by it.  I would feel shame-faced.  But I would try to take the opportunity to back down from making the dinner table uncomfortable over something that didn't really matter in the long run. I would feel badly. I would later apologize to my DD. But I would see that my MIL was trying to make me back down, save my DD's feelings, extend grace. Give me the opportunity to admit, without actually admitting it, that I was wrong. A chance to say - oh, I was mistaken! It's not a big deal!  Instead of, I was horribly wrong to even go down this path, and now I must grovel in apology to everyone at the table and publicly retract everything I said.

[bolt.]

Assuming she was acting in good faith, she was probably thinking, I'll give her a way to gracefully back down. I'll give Bolt a way to save face.

 

I don't always have the social skills to realize that's what's happening to me, and I probably would have missed the lifeline as well.

Yeah, I don't equate, "Give bolt the opportunity to admit that she was completely wrong (and I was right)." With "Give bolt a way to save face."

[Farrar]

I feel so sorry for bolt's dd who got stuck in the middle of that. I agree with Maize on both counts - the dinner wasn't the best time for that sort of work with her dd - but the grandmother storming out so emotionally probably made it a million times worse for the kid that it would have been otherwise. Basically grandma took what was really a minor child and parent gaffe and turned it into a emotional nightmare. Poor kid. And poor bolt, who was obviously just doing her best under pressure.

 

If you feel like maybe mil was just having a bad day too, I might just let it go. Sometimes hashing stuff out just uncovers a lot of junk no one should air out. If it's an ongoing pattern or something, you might need to talk to her though.

[Haiku]

Are there really people in the world who would be "lightened" to learn that they had made their child cry in front of an audience by correcting the child *in error* when the child had done nothing wrong?

Maybe she just thought you were wrong and needed to apologize to your daughter.

 

She could have done it for a dozen different reasons, ranging from well-intentioned to deliberately malicious. None of us here know why she did it.

 

I think you both over-reacted. It happens sometimes. I would try not to prolong the issue by worrying about it.

[purplejackmama]

"Well goodness. I wish I had as much help with cooking and cleaning as I seem to be getting with parenting."

Hmm I think this would have made things worse.

[Sk8ermaiden]

My MIL would do something just like that and it would make me livid. But yes, my MIL and, to a lesser extent my mom, hate to see the grandkids corrected. The difference is that my MIL will hold out a plate to try to prove me wrong and my mom will whisper something in my ear to try to make me see that maybe I should let it go. Sometimes she is right and I do and sometimes she is wrong and I don't, but only one grandma approach ends in frustration all around!!

 

If a grandparent pored more syrup on when I had said it was too much, they'd be finding their time with our kids seriously limited. They already give the kids way more leeway on bedtimes, sugar, juice, behavior, etc....if they were actively undermining our parenting, that would NOT be acceptable. If I fuss at DD, my mom bends over backwards to try to smooth it over so DD doesn't get too upset, but she would never do it by contradicting what I had just said. 

 

I think, when you see the grandparents a lot (several times a week in my case), you can't just let all the parenting stuff go all the time. When they're in your life all the time, parenting is going to happen in front of them. Now, on my better days, I try to take DD aside to correct her, but it really depends how ragged the kids have run me. 

Edited May 9, 2016 by Sk8ermaiden

[lauraw4321]

Well, I disagree. You could legitimately say that you thought there was more chocolate sauce than there was. I don't think she was thinking about your feelings - she was thinking only of your daughter's (and hers, I'm sure). She was trying to diffuse the situation. She upped the ante.  She was hoping you would fold. Instead she double-downed. It was manipulative, of course. But the more socially graceful thing would have been to allow yourself to be manipulated. 

 

She was wrong to storm out, of course. Adults need to behave like adults for the sake of children. 

 

Now, there very well may be an entire back story of the MIL constantly stomping all over boundaries which would totally change how I view this. If she uses huffing off routinely, then that's a big issue. But if this is a one-time thing, sounds like it was just an emotional day. 

 

I'm not trying to get sideways with you, either.  I'm sorry you had a bad day. Really, I am.

[bolt.]

"If you need to cry leave the table" isn't 'in trouble'? I think that is not typical -- it sounds so harsh from the outside. So I can see where the misunderstanding came from.

 

I am not judging your parenting , you know your kid and what works! But from the outside , I can see 'look it's not so bad everyone just get along!' being a not unpredictable smoothing over move.

I thought leaving the room when you need to cry was a normal social skill. Can you tell me what's a more typical response?

[TammyinTN]

Absolutely no words of wisdom...but family stuff is just hard sometimes.  Big hugs to ya! 

[bolt.]

To make matters worse (for me) I've just recalled half a dozen *really* strong good reasons why her day was a hell of a lot worse than mine. Things I should have been much more cognizant of much earlier in the day, if I were even the shadow of a kind and sensitive person. Crud. She legitimately had zero coping ability left, and was doing nothing worse than being impulsively nice to others at my expense. Pooooop! I hate being wrong.

Edited May 9, 2016 by bolt.

[Joker]

I thought leaving the room when you need to cry was a normal social skill. Can you tell me what's a more typical response?

 

 

Unless the crying is loud, I would ignore it. When I am upset and start to cry, I can usually get it under control with not many being aware. If someone points it out, though, all bets are off. It seems to only make it worse. 

 

I don't know the age of your dd but with my own, in front of family, I would ignore it unless it was very obvious or loud. My dds would usually excuse themselves because it is embarrassing to them to cry in front of people. 

[hornblower]

I thought leaving the room when you need to cry was a normal social skill. Can you tell me what's a more typical response?

 

I think the issue needs to be addressed several steps back - you shouldn't need to cry unless you're a baby or a toddler. A school aged child should not be put in a situation where they're crying, esp in front of people outside the immediate family. 

 

A grieving adult might excuse themselves. A teen going through a tough break up might excuse themselves. 

 

But if wouldn't be normal for me to say things that would make a kid teary in front of others. 

[bolt.]

I didn't exactly know that telling her she had taken more syrup than she should have would make her cry. We're hitting new development (11.5) and I'm finding her unpredictably weepy. In a few more weeks I'll probably be better. (A comment like that wouldn't have made her cry a month ago.)

 

I'm really feeling defensive. All I mean is that I wouldn't have said it either, if I had the slightest idea it would result in tears. It's also 'not normal' for me to make comments (on purpose) that make kids teary in front of others.

Edited May 9, 2016 by bolt.

[Katy]

I think what Maize said was awesome nuance, but you didn't do anything wrong.  MIL lacks boundaries and overreacted.  Perhaps you could have been firm with boundaries in a slightly gentler tone, but seriously, you do not interfere in someone parenting their child unless there is obvious abuse going on.  The entire incident was none of her business, even if she did happen to be present.  Honestly the interfering would bug me so much that I would reiterate it before she spent time with the children again.  She was way out of line.

[gardenmom5]

I've not read any other replies.

was it really necessary to give your dd a lesson on the appropriate amount of chocolate syrup in front of extended family members/guests?    I would imagine it was something that made your guests uncomfortable (If I'd been there it would have made me uncomfortable to watch) - and probably not just your mil.

 

 

I do understand  the frustration with drama. . . . we only had immediate family, and 1dd was rude, got called on it, then stalked off, and eventually left - before dinner.

[Sk8ermaiden]

I think the issue needs to be addressed several steps back - you shouldn't need to cry unless you're a baby or a toddler. A school aged child should not be put in a situation where they're crying, esp in front of people outside the immediate family. 

 

A grieving adult might excuse themselves. A teen going through a tough break up might excuse themselves. 

 

But if wouldn't be normal for me to say things that would make a kid teary in front of others. 

 

Some kids will cry if you look at them funny. I take it you did not have one of those kids.

[Katy]

One thing to add- my MIL is afraid of me, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.  She's the worst sort of narcissist though, so I'm fine with her fear.

[hornblower]

I didn't exactly know that telling her she had taken more syrup than she should have would make her cry. We're hitting new development (11.5) and I'm finding her unpredictably weepy. In a few more weeks I'll probably be better. (A comment like that wouldn't have made her cry a month ago.)

 

 

ah, she's possibly in puberty now & getting hormonal and awkward and self aware. It's an interesting time :)  Honestly, the next couple years were for me a series of me biting my tongue and chanting in my head "let this go, let this go" & "not now, not now"  You know how when you're parenting toddlers & young children, they have the attention span of a gnat & you have to provide guidance and redirection in the moment because 5 mins later they've already forgotten the situation & won't really understand what you're talking about? 

 

It all changes now, IMO. In my house, other than physical danger stuff (don't run with that knife!), pretty much everything was made worse if I addressed it in the moment with a kid this age. If I waited an hour or an afternoon or a day or a week, it might still suck to bring it up, but at least it had a chance of being heard and remotely taken on board. In the moment, in  my house it always went sideways so I learned to just bite my tongue & wait for a quiet, preferably private time. And then I'd just quickly slide it in, & then stop talking about it.. .

 

(that was on the good days. Let me tell you there were many not good days where we all were  :crying:  :cursing:  :banghead:  )